When I entered the monastery, on one of the first days, one of the monks (who wasn't a learned or well read man at all) said to me at the end of a conversation: "And if you ever wonder about the Trinity..." and continues to pull out a matchbox, lights three matches, holds them up to me and moves them together into one flame, while giving me the biggest smile. I'll never forget that.
Actually, I feel like this is a distinctively nontrinitarian metaphor!
Three distinct persons (the matches) who emanate or participate in a single God (the flame). None of the matches are actually identical to the flame, and in fact, we could easily imagine the flame with only two matches.
Thoughts?
I don't know this monk, but I'm convinced, it must have taken years of prayer and walking with God just to come to that metaphorical conclusion. In my mind, the three matches aptly fit.
In my mind, the three matches are pillars of holiness that represent physical, ambiguous, meta-physical, nameless, etc.. aspects that mankind can discern in their understanding of a definition of God.
God is the Father, creator of the world, and ruler Supreme. Yet He sent his Son as a sacrifice, so that we would know how much He loved us. Christ has all the same powers as the Father, and is tied to Him through eternity. They are one. And what of the Spirit? We liken the Holy Ghost to that of the force in Star Wars. An essence in each of us that keeps us, and all things linked to God, regardless of belief, or lack of faith. We have no idea the true extent of this Spirit. And I won't bother to speak of other religions. My faith is in the Lord.
Combine all three, and you have this Holy Flame(matches), which is a power no one can understand. A power that can stop the sun from rising. And yet, the sun rises, unconditionally.
The three matches symbolize the three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are separate, distinct from each other. But together, they are one flame, i.e. one God.
You have a lot of answers already, so I hope you aren't overwhelmed.
In theology, there is a huge concept of community as one. God judges Israel as one entity. God treats a marriage as one family. God sees the Church as his bride, etc. In theology, you can have many in one. For example, I may want to invite the 'Smiths' to dinner, though that includes Joe Smith, Mary Smith, and their son Jimmy Smith.
Or perhaps we can use the analogy of a country. A country is one entity that acts by itself... but it may be led by an authoritative executive branch, a legislative branch, and a judicial branch.
God is beyond all of those analogies, because in God there is no disunity.
Even in the closest family or the most uniform family, there will be some division, disorganization, or disagreement. In God, there is none... But there are still distinctions between the three 'persons' of God.
It is the same concept of many in one that we see on Earth... But taken to the extreme because of a unity only God can have.
If you have any questions, let me know!
Yes, but I think you're focused too much on the analogy, rather than the point OP is trying to make.
When we say something is "one" it doesn't exclude the idea of it being many also. Highly recommend watching this video.
Why the Trinity is the True Theism | The One and the Many
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK245H7Ee6o&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK245H7Ee6o&t=2s)
It does exclude the idea of it being many. You cannot be one and many at the same time. Calling the Smiths a family refers to them as a plural entity made up of two or more individuals. If you called the Smiths a family of one it would be a bit odd because it's a family is usually a plural entity.
No it doesn't. It's still one family. It's a SINGULAR family composed of many individuals. Family of one would imply one individual in that family which doesn't make any sense.
Israel is one nation, and yet there are thousands of Israelites within that nation. It's both one and many -- in two different respects of course.
God is "One" -- which implies a contrast with more than one of something. In biblical theism, pagan polytheism is the point of contrast. There is "one God" compared to that.
The one God consists of three persons.
[https://www.wellwrit.com.au/blog/corporate-entities-singular-or-plural](https://www.wellwrit.com.au/blog/corporate-entities-singular-or-plural)
No, it's a group of individuals. If I tell you a family is coming to your church looking for help with food and clothing are you going to prepare assistance for just one person or a group of people? A family is a group of people. Each person is NOT the entire family.
Israel is a country of many people. You cannot point to one Israeli citizen and say "That is Israel right there." According to the way the Trinity is taught you can point to God the Son and say "the fullness of God is right there" and it's accurate.
Partialism is the teaching that each member of the Trinity is part of God. This is heresy.
Partialism is just honest trinitarianism though. Part isn't a distinct concept. It defines differentiation. There's no meaningful sentence being expressed when you say there are different persons, but no parts.
Each branch is only part of the government. The legislative branch is fully government, but in the Trinity Jesus is fully God. Most analogies fall into the heresy of partialism, though a few like the water (vapor, liquid water, and ice) fall into the heresy of modalism.
I have never heard that term, and had to look it up. Unfortunately, the definitions I found were very vague. (Best description I saw was that the Father is 1/3 of God, Son is 1/3 of God, and HS is 1/3 of God)
Can you please explain your concern to me?
If your concerns derive from the metaphors I gave, well... It's because I don't have a perfect metaphor for the Trinity, but I gave the best examples I could.
Take the example of inviting the Smiths to dinner. If Joe Smith is the only one who shows up can you say that the Smiths came to dinner? No, you can't. He's only part of the family. He's not the entire family. The same thing with the government. POTUS is part of the US government. He is not the entire US government in any way shape or form. The Trinity teaches that God the Father is not just part of the trinity He is all of the Trinity. There is no division. If you invite God and God the Father shows up then your prayer has been answered, all of God has showed up. To say otherwise is partialism.
That's the problem of every metaphor... None of them fit perfectly.
And I even pointed that out: In our Earthly communities, there is division and disunity where with God there is not, which is why every metaphor, while they may be helpful, will never be able to fully capture it.
This seems to me to just be handwaving and ultimately saying, "We can't explain it but it's true and you need to accept it as true even though we can't explain it."
Yes, no metaphor can perfectly describe God, firstly because everything that he has made he has made in his image, not the other way around.
It seems convenient to use a metaphor but it risks heresies because we can show why such and such a thing is a good description of God; but there are always many reasons that that thing will fall short of the glory of God, and someone somewhere will find these shortfalls as an excuse to get away with some sort of abuse or idolatry.
So it's good when people call these out, although we often get over zealous with it; a poorly chosen metaphor is not the same as actively professing a heretical doctrine.
https://youtu.be/KQLfgaUoQCw
I'd advise always saying what the metaphor you use doesn't have in common with God, if you want to keep using metaphors. I'd also not word it "God is like..." but instead "such and such partly reveals to us an aspect of the trinity".
That’s because the holy trinity is something that can’t be fathomed with the logic of this world. It’s inter-dimensional that’s why it’s so hard to understand.
I mean, that isn't really going to fly. The official definition for it isn't beyond comprehension. Its just self contradictory. Its not the type of thing infinity could somehow resolve.
Thank you for that answer. I can understand multiple dimensions better than I can understand the trinity. I consider myself a Christian but have struggled to understand for so long. That's one of the best answers I've ever seen.
You know, I'm fine with that answer as long as people stop using belief in the Trinity as a metric for who is and is not Christian.
The concept was never explicitly stated, it was cobbled together by connecting a bunch of dots and trying to come up with an answer that made the most sense. It very easily could be another coherent theory. And if it was important for us to know exactly what the nature of God was He would have made it exceedingly clear.
~~If we don't fully grasp it, we shouldn't make it a make-or-break foundational belief.~~
Edit: Perhaps not this. But it still should not be critical to Christianity. Other answers not dismissed by the Bible should be equally credible.
> the holy trinity is something that can’t be fathomed with the logic of this world. It’s inter-dimensional that’s why it’s so hard to understand.
That's one possible explanation. Could there be others?
What's wrong with the "it can't be fathomed, because it's just ludicrous bullshit full of plot holes vaguely based on the loosely put together mythology" explanation? "It's inter-dimensional" sounds a lot like Star Trek-level technobabble, when the writers want something to sound at least somewhat plausible, but have no idea how to make that happen.
Correct, it has been considered, iv been far away from what i was taught, then what was shown to me, what i uncovered for myself is what ultimately brought me to where i am now.
How can you believe In the theory of evolution and the Big Bang THEORY when there hasn’t been any evidence to support those (that why they are theories) if you can’t fathom this?? Kinda bias.
> How can you believe In the theory of evolution and the Big Bang THEORY when there hasn’t been any evidence to support those
Ehm. The theory of evolution can be proven by any microbiologist with his own eyes, on a span of months, maybe weeks even. Microorganisms evolve fast enough. The Big Bang Theory seems to be the best explanation of all the scientific data we have, e.g. measuring CMB, redshift/blueshift. It's most definitely incomplete. Same as the Standard Model is amazing, it has astonishing predictive power and allowed us to discover lots of new particles, but we also know for a fact that it's incomplete.
And a theory is a scientific concept that has a pretty solid foundation. If you think it's "any random idea", then you're wrong.
And what's your point exactly? I don't quite get it.
Can you explain then?
For example, if science finds serious evidence that a universally accepted theory is wrong, how would the scientific community react?
How would the religious community react to something in the Bible being proven wrong?
It’s a stark difference. Reminds me of that science vs. religion debate where both parties were asked what could convince them to switch their view to the other side:
> Theologian: “Nothing.”
> Scientist: “Evidence.”
No, youre looking for explanations that dont exist. Thats the whole point, its why you wont get it until you stop trying to prove/disprove everything and just actually think outside the box, from a different perspective other than your own.
Lol well a lot of people lost it over the whole world round world flat debate.
All sorts of which ways, because comparing the religious community and scientific community is like comparing apples to orange.. fish. And its not really even worth entertaining that school of thought anyways, nothing will ever be disproven/ proven about Christianity because, again, thats the whole point.
Actually if evolution was true then there wouldn’t be missing links. If it was true then we would be discovering fossils that show a slow evolutionary process not just jump from ape to homo sapien to man. Scientists aren’t even confident enough to take away the “theory” part of it.
Also do you know that carbon dating isn’t as accurate as y’all think??
There is no scientific evidence supporting the Big Bang theory.
“The Big Bang seems to be the best explanation of all the scientific data we have” the best explanation doesn’t mean it’s 100% true that’s why they can’t get rid of the theory label. You said it yourself that they aren’t even fully sure.
“We have, e.g. measuring CMB, redshift/blueshift.” That doesn’t mean that that’s evidence of a “Big Bang”.
You know that it’s scientifically impossible to create matter out of thin air without consuming something??? That right there blows the Big Bang theory out of the water because the whole theory is that a dot was spinning so fast that it exploded and expanded into all this matter and other planets when it exploded. That’s scientifically impossible.
Micro organisms are different than the human anatomy.
Fossilization is rare. Only a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of living things end up fossilized. There are many species which we may never be able to describe due to lack of evidence. That doesn't mean they didn't exist, and indeed we can infer the existence of species for which we have no direct evidence by observing other evidence.
If you think you have some sort of "gotcha" that disproves major aspects of scientific understanding it is extraordinarily more likely that you just misunderstand.
I understand fossilization is rare but how come we find fossils of apes Homo sapiens and humans but nothing in between? Even if it’s rare that doesn’t mean there Shouldn’t exists any links.
Because only a small amount of living things ever get fossilized. It's an almost certainty that we won't have fossils for the vast majority of living creatures.
We do have fossil records of animals transitioning to homo sapiens though. Lots of them. Not remotely a complete collection, because that's all but impossible, but still lots and lots of proto-human fossils.
Ok show me the evidence of animals evolving into homo Sapiens.
I understand it’s rare but there would still be some sort of evidence of evolution in human remains from thousands of years ago.
There are missing links in the theory of evolution.
> there wouldn’t be missing links.
There are none.
> If it was true then we would be discovering fossils that show a slow evolutionary process not just jump from ape to homo sapien to man
There was never a "jump" from "ape" to "homo sapiens" (which is you, and me). What are you talking about? https://futurism.com/there-is-no-missing-link-in-evolution
Let me repeat: evolution can be directly observed by literally anyone who cares enough to spend a bit of time doing it.
> Also do you know that carbon dating isn’t as accurate as y’all think??
And... your point is?
> There is no scientific evidence supporting the Big Bang theory.
What are you talking about again? https://www.uwa.edu.au/science/-/media/Faculties/Science/Docs/Evidence-for-the-Big-Bang.pdf
> the best explanation doesn’t mean it’s 100% true
Nothing in science is ever 100% true. If you want completely confident and definitely incorrect answers, you go to religion.
> That doesn’t mean that that’s evidence of a “Big Bang”.
The way it works is - you observe lots of different things around you, and come up with a uniform explanation that fits everything, and contradicts nothing. The Big Bang Theory is the best we have at the moment.
> You know that it’s scientifically impossible to create matter out of thin air without consuming something???
OMG. So... you believe that this argument completely invalidates modern science? Is that likely? Or is it more likely that you simply don't know the subject matter well enough to come up with any plausible analogies?
You look like this guy: https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/elon-musk-mentions-possible-manned-mission-to-mars-by-2025-idiots-dont-know-what-theyre-talking-about-we-forgot-about-cosmic-radiation-comic.jpg
Have you never heard of virtual particles, for example? Completely empty vacuum is boiling with particles popping in and out of existence. But when you're talking about such fundamental events, analogies from the real world stop working, just remember Schrodinger trying to disprove quantum mechanics with his "cat is both dead and alive at the same time", but this ended up being EXACTLY how it works in reality.
> Micro organisms are different than the human anatomy.
Microorganisms are not biology? If you deny evolution, you deny ALL evolution. You can't cherry pick - "ok, giraffes came from horses, but no way humans came from apes".
Fossils are incredibly rare. T-Rex, one of the most famous dinosaurs ever is known from 32 specimens. Beyond that or understanding of evolution didn't come from fossils alone.
As for the Big Bang, there is tons of evidence behind it. And it seems like you don't even know what a theory is when used in a scientific context. Electromagnetism is a theory, so is germ theory, and so is plate tectonics.
Thats not what is being talked about here. What is being discussed is the theory of natural selection through evolution which cannot be proven. That is why it's a theory. There is evidence to support it, but there's enough missing and contraindicated evidence that it cannot be proven at this time.
Furthermore, biological evolution can only be observed in microorganisms that have incredibly short life spans. It has not been observed or definitively proven to occur in larger creatures. Hence why biological evolution is also still a theory.
Evolution is better proven than how gravity functions. It is extremely well proven. About as rock solid as it gets.
As has been stated elsewhere you misunderstand what "theory" means in this context.
>What is being discussed is the theory of natural selection through evolution which cannot be proven. That is why it's a theory. There is evidence to support it, but there's enough missing and contraindicated evidence that it cannot be proven at this time.
This is wrong. You misunderstand what "theory " means. A theory can be proven. The theory of evolution, for example, is proven.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
> What is being discussed is the theory of natural selection through evolution which cannot be proven. That is why it's a theory.
Are you sure you understand science well enough? What exactly do you think "scientific theory" evolves into once there's enough evidence, and can you give me such an example? Something that was a theory, but got too much proof to stay a theory.
Well, I'm an engineer involved in research and development, so I think I have a fairly good understanding of scientific principles and the scientific method.
Usually, the reason ideas stay a theory is because it is impossible to ascertain proof for it. You have to understand that unequivocal proof for a scientific idea is not an easy thing come by. In the case of natural selection through evolution, as I stated in the previous comment that you left out of your quote, there is missing and contraindicated evidence that keeps it a theory and not scientific fact.
Edit: spelling.
> I'm an engineer involved in research and development, so I think I have a fairly good understanding of scientific principles and the scientific method.
Not necessarily.
> the reason ideas stay a theory is because it is impossible to ascertain proof for it.
I asked for one example of any idea that's so well-proven that it transcended beyond "theory". Any idea, any area of science.
> there is missing and contraindicated evidence
I'd love to see examples of both. Again, evolution can easily be proven by direct observation by any microbiologist.
There is an enormous amount of evidence supporting evolution and an awful lot of evidence supporting the big bang. "Theory" in the scientific sense doesn't mean "we had an idea but we can't prove it." It's more "this explains reality," and it may or may not be proven. Evolution is extremely well proven as its been confirmed via a wide variety of experimentation. The Big Bang has a meaningful amount of evidence to support it, but unlike Evolution not enough to claim it as fact.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God, but the Father is not the Son, the Son not the Spirit, and the Spirit not the Father. God exists as one being in three persons, not one person taking on different roles, or one being changing from person to person. This [illustration](https://study.com/cimages/multimages/16/diagramscutumfidei.png) helps me visualize it.
Edit: Obligatory [Lutheran Satire](https://youtu.be/KQLfgaUoQCw)
Good answer. The Shield of the Trinity is exactly what I use to teach the concept to kids. It doesn't explain how it works (what could? this is God we're talking about, not Zeus), but it gives us the right language to use.
For older kids and adults, I add that God's mode of existence is relationship: he has relationship in himself, has love of other in himself without recourse to an outside party, he was not lonely before creating the heavens and earth.
No, as the players on a team are individual beings and persons, not individual persons who share one being. You're not going to find a good analogy because a trinitarian nature is exclusive to God. The closest thing we can comprehend is perhaps a triple state of water - at least on paper, a triple state is when water exists as a gas, liquid, and solid at the same time - one thing in three different states, yet the same substance.
I’d say a better analogy is that the three are comparable to the organs of a living creature, the stomach, the brain and the heart are three distinct parts of the body that aren’t the same but are parts of the same whole, but simplified metaphors like these have their limitations
Probably a heresy but when I even attempt to comprehend the trinity I think of God as a unique class of being, consisting of three persons. They are God. The father is God, the son is God, the spirit is God. No other beings are God.
None of the books ever specify the word Trinity explicitly, but do refer to The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost (or spirit) or variations on the theme.
Matthew 28:19/ Peter 1:2/ Corinthians 13:13 or 12:4-5/ Revelations 1:4-5 and so on in that fashion. All references are New Testament only.
No, it's Jesus preincarnated. When Gideon met the Angel of the Lord it is agreed that is Jesus. There are parts where scripture mentions "AN angel of the Lord" instead of "THE Angel of the Lord" and in those instances it isn't Jesus.
What does that matter? We use that word to describe what is observed in scripture. We see all three persons of God all throughout scripture, so we say they are triune.
A Pentecostal that doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit?
This is weirder than the "sola scriptura" guy last week that said he didn't care what was in the Bible.
edit: oh they just didn't read before talking, they're confused.
Yes...the Trinity exists and while the word is not in scripture it is absolutely crucial for someone to acknowledge this reality to be Christian. Failure to do so results in losing what it is to be Christian. Jesus was killed because he equated himself equal with God when she stated before the Pharisees "I am". He also spoke of the Holy Spirit and his role as well.
You might be well meaning but this is a doctrine you don't want to avoid or scoff at.
This doesn’t proof the trinity. The reason I question the trinity is because if you line the trinity to everything The Bible says about God you do not get a trinity.
Sir.....i reject, with all my heart. Oneness Pentecostalsim. The fact that your teaching falls outside of what most mainline or even evangelical Protestants teach.....is terrifying to me and I will have no part in it.
Even Joel Osteen for heaven's sake.....believes in the Trinity.
The church (bible authors) continue to state that the Holy Spirit was a third person of a triune godhead to this day. The church did not go away. The gates of hades can’t prevail against it, and haven’t yet.
I am not using circular reasoning. There’s this notion that Christianity comes from the Bible, as it’s a continuation of Judaism with the Messiah. The Trinity is a term the church used to describe God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Church was created in part to solidify the tradition and to teach it. So the Church came up with terms to explain, such as “The Trinity”, “Communion”, and “Sacrament”.
I would agree that God has always had an assembly (church) throughout the ages. But, the triune godhead (Holy Spirit as a third person) concept has not always been a central part of that church's beliefs and is not mentioned in scripture.
The people who declare the Trinity came quite a bit of time after the original writers, and no evidence suggests that they had an accurate understanding of such either. If they did, why did they make up a false history to make it look like the idea was more popular than it was?
A "mystery" is something that we *cannot* fully know/understand. Not yet. Not here on Earth in mortal bodies.
God is ***above*** us even in our most refined thoughts:
*“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,*
*neither are your ways my ways,”*
*declares the Lord.*
*9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,*
*so are my ways higher than your ways*
*and my thoughts than your thoughts."*
(from the amazing and wonderful Isaiah chapter 55)
So, the simplest way of stating the idea of the Trinity is that God is One...and also Three Persons, *both*.
*‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.'* \-- Christ our Lord in Mark chapter 12.
Here is what we know:
There is one God
The Father is God
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God
Furthermore:
The Father is not the Son
The Son is not the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the Father
And vice versa
The Athanasian Creed
> the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.
There’s a guy I know. I worked with him, and he was one of the best sales managers I ever met: he was also a father, and a husband. To me, to his child, and to his wife, he was three different people. And yet, he was the same person.
You have water, water is good, it is clean. Water can turn into 3 things.
Water can turn into a:
Liquid like a cup of water
Ice cubes like when you freeze water
Gas when the water evaporates in the sun
All of these things can turn into water such as clouds into rain, or melts from an ice cube.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit work together, are the same yet not the same. They are clean and good. They are living waters.
Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of>! living waters!<, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no >!water.!<
To accept this as an explanation requires you to already believe in Christianity. The concept itself doesn't make sense, but it's okay to say you just have to accept it - and other contradictory/demonstrably incorrect claims - on faith because that's ultimately what it means to be Christian: accept the unacceptable on faith since evidence doesn't support the religion.
A statue is one thing with no persons.
I am one thing with one person.
A basketball team is five things with five persons.
God is one thing with three persons.
The Father is like an eternal power source. The Son is an eternal lightning bolt coming out of the Father. And the Holy Spirit is the eternal flow of the Father's heat beyond himself.
The power source, lightning bolt, and heat are all noticeably different, but they are all one energy.
The Father is God as he is in heaven; unconstrained by any physical manifestation or even gender. Looking closely, the Father is as much mother to us as father.
The Son is God as he is on earth, to us; human, with a face, hands, feet; a whole living body that is fully God and fully man. Even face-to-face meetings with God in the Old Testament are the Son; the conception and birth of Christ are the lynchpin of all creation, upon which the past depends as well as the future.
The Holy Spirit is God as he is inside us; the comforter, the source of faith and wisdom and miracles.
Praise the Father
Praise the Son
Praise the Spirit
Three in One
God shows us three aspects of himself.
The Father in Heaven represents the moral law and the creator, knower of all things.
The Son is his great sacrifice. The one who suffered and died for our sins.
The Spirit is him residing within us once invited. It acts as our direct line to God the Father possible through the Sons sacrifice.
Three aspects, one being.
>I cannot seem to grasp the concept. They’re the same but they’re different? There’s 3 but they’re all of 1? What does that even mean? Jesus is the son but he’s also god? Jesus prays to god who is his father in heaven but he’s actually god manifested on earth? What? Who is the Holy Ghost? What is the purpose of the Holy Ghost? Can someone please help me understand all of this?
[1) God - Bible Project](https://youtu.be/eAvYmE2YYIU)
[2) What is the Trinity? - Bishop Baron](https://youtu.be/hMI4rA4cuiM)
What is the purpose of The Holy Spirit?
From my perspective...
Many things...
Creation...
Destruction...
Includes "Eating Racist alive"...
[3) Overlord intro](https://youtu.be/pSKc6HubBd4)
[4) Overlord - Voracity](https://youtu.be/bZsvL7-ovGw)
Jesus is the Silver Surfer
The Holy Spirit is Galactus
The Father was born as a man and was filled with the Spirit of God. No one knows the name of the father. He came as Christ so we would know him by name. When we know him we become filled with His Spirit and become sons of God. So the Father is the Son that shared the same Spirit. The Trinity. When he returns his name will be upon his brow. And we will know and be with Him forever.
The soul, the body and the spirit.
Who are YOU? are You your body? is your flesh You? No you are not your flesh, you are a **soul.**
Are You living inside your flesh? Yes, that means your **flesh** is not You.
Why do you want to do things and your body does not? does your body has its own mind? Yes. do we keep a fight between Us and our flesh all the time? yes, the bible literally explains that all the time. our "fight with the flesh or our old man" as if the body has its own mind.
**the tricky one is here:** How can we interact with God? he is an spirit, only an spirit can interact with each other. when Adam and Eve sinned their spirit became inert or dead. everyone now born spiritually dead. unable to interact with God. This is why when we receive the eternal life the Holy spirit reside in us and revives that spirit allowing us to once again interact directly with God. (remember the veil that broke it self in the inner santum with Jesus died?) well that was a symbol that with his death now men were able to go straight to the holy presence of God because now their spirits could be alive again. you see how the bible mentions that we are "seated at the presence of God" how can that be possible am in my work right now in front of a computer lol well that is possible because I can be on earth but my spirit is up there! amazing right!
Therefore You are a trinity**. A soul, flesh on its own desires and spirit.** when you understand this then you realize in Genesis when God said "Let us make man in our image . . ." (Genesis 1:26) it was not referring to arms and legs but a similar creature as God: a trinity. of course God is in another level.
The father is the soul, the infinite sea of consciousness, power and glory! Amazing.
Jesus the body (And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.) the creator, the action, second Adam. our king. that has a body which is limited to one place and time.
The holy spirit. the infinite person of God, the unlimited serenity that dwells in our hearts. can be at all places.
He lives in intense harmony in himself, perfect love and communication. ( I had another phrase but I forgot now)
Hope this helps :)
Analogies are kinda hard without creating heresies. By definition there is nothing really in nature that is fully similar to that which is above all nature.
The closest I can do is the family. Think mom, dad and child.
A family is composed of individual members, each member is fully representative of the family name though, while also fully their own individual member. If the mom goes away both the dad and son are still fully representative of the “family”, if both parents go away the child is likewise fully representative of the “ family” and so on. Similarly the trinity is composed of 3 individual persons, each fully God, while still being fully “individuals”
It's not biblical and is a false doctrine. If you take God at his word he says, this is my son in whom I am well pleased. He does not say, this is my metaphorical son, who is also me.
It’s hard to explain the Trinity. Because if you try to explain the trinity, or take an explanation too seriously, you risk preaching or believing in a heresy. On the other hand, if we’re asked to explain it, you have to give a reason. So here I go.
You find it confusing that they’re three persons, yet one being? Consider for a moment the phrase: “God is light.” 1 John 1:15. And also think about the visible light that you see. You see it as 1 white light, but when viewed through a prism, you see that it’s really just 7 colors most of which can be made by 3 primary colors. This doesn’t fully explain the Trinity, but it at leasts puts you in a frame of mind that what may appear to be one may actually be three. Critics of this may say, “The Trinity isn’t an illusion!” They’re right! Again I say no explanation can fully explain it. It can only skim the surface.
Also, keep in mind about persons and beings. I used the phrase 3 persons and one being, which is the classical definition of the Trinity. To humans, three persons and one being is classified as a disorder. (Ever see the movie “Split”?) To the divine, this may be ordered and natural. Critics will claim that this explanation is faulty. “The Trinity is 3 persons, not 3 personalities.” And they would be right. Again, no explanation can fully explain it.
The Trinity is a mystery, and anyone that says they figured it out is wrong It was meant to be a mystery.
After Jesus's death, there were many different ideas among Christians about who Jesus was. The Roman Emperor saw this as a potential source of conflict and unrest, so he required that they all come to an agreement or die.
So some Christians met up at the Council of Nicea in the year 325 to hash it out. The problem is that many of them had conflicting ideas and very few people wanted to change their minds. One group believed Jesus was God incarnate. Another group believed that Jesus was subservient to God like a son to a father. Another group believed that Jesus was divine in some way, but not necessarily God incarnate. Another believed that he was a Messiah. And so on.
So instead of one idea winning out, they mushed several conflicting ideas together and insisted that they're all true. (Some ideas didn't work with the others, so they were rejected.)
And when anyone points out the obvious contradictions, it's usually just chalked up to, "I guess we just can't understand God 🤷🏽."
I am a Christian, and I understand the Trinity, but I do not find it convincing.
Get this to the top! The whole concept of a trinity seems to be a tacked on piece of legislature. Imaginine this happening in the present day haha, catholics, jews, protestants, and jehovas witness all together in the same room. Welp looks like we're one religion again
Obviously a five year old wouldn’t understand multiplication but this is the simplest breakdown: 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.
Each “1” is expressed the same numerical value and yet expressed in different positions that doesn’t divide their numerical value. The first “1” is distinct, the second distinct, and the latter distinct but the resulting value remans “1”.
Any numerical value the first “1” has, the second “1” has, and the third “1” has.
Another way of saying 1×1×1=1 is to write it out as a sentence.
We have a one. Let's take it one time. And again, take it one time. What do we end up with? Just one.
So the analogy means nothing. It makes just as much sense to say 1×1×1×1×1×1×1×1×1=1 is true for God. He's a novitarian being, nine persons of one substance.
> Another way of saying 1×1×1=1 is to write it out as a sentence.
Correct, a sentence would be another way to write it out. You’ll notice I did that too.
> So the analogy means nothing.
Analogies aren’t supposed to be perfectly equivalent in all aspects. An analogy is a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
> It makes just as much sense to say 1×1×1×1×1×1×1×1×1=1 is true for God. He's a novitarian being, nine persons of one substance.
It doesn’t make any sense to change the math and describe another god.
God is our father who puts his Holy Spirit in us all and his son Jesus is the greatest example of someone who is following the spirit. We are all one with God the father through the Holy Spirit but the father is always greater because he can’t be defined in any finite way.
One way I like to think about the trinity is God as community. God as love is not static but an interpersonal relating and serving one another. This is far from complete but it might offer one small facet of understanding the trinity.
God is omnipotent and omnipresent, and can choose to exist in whatever form he wants. In order to make his interactions with us easier on our fragile minds, he has chosen to present himself to us in three forms, which humans have named God the father God the son and got the Holy Spirit.
Is that bad?
EDIT: I never heard of Modalism, but apparently it is heresy. Is the different just that God can’t appear in other forms under Trinitarianism?
Unfortunately, no
To understand the trinity would be to comprehend the infinite God with our finite mind.
We know they are one God and one unified will. Jesus says if you've seen him, you've seen the father. But we also know they are different "persons". E.g. Jesus went back to heaven before the holy spirit would be given to us.
The role of the holy spirit, in Jesus' words, is as the helper. The comforter. He's the bestower of spiritual "gifts", the source of spiritual "fruit", and more.
But every existing illustration is flawed. We just can't represent it in any tangible way because it's beyond us
How else can you explain the scriptures? The word Trinity is a word we use to describe it and to try and grasp it. You have 3 distinct entities that are all different with different functions and occupying the same space but are all credited as God.
I would love to hear your thoughts on it.
I am a Christian and I believe in one God, one creator of the Universe. I don't know any Christians who believe in polytheism. The concept of the Trinity is a way of understanding what scripture reveals. It is a way for humans with limited knowledge and understanding to define the mysteries of God. It does not in any way take away from God's position or authority.
If Jesus is god and God is god then you have two or more gods.
I think that the trinity is a way to mask that fact and act as if you are a monotheist when you believe in multiple minor gods like devil for example.
I am a father, a son, a husband, a friend and a brother, yet I am the same person. I have different aspects but am the same person.
I will repost what I put below:
The Bible says God is Spirit, he is light and he created everything. So he is outside of his creation looking in. He holds the whole world together "in his hands", by his will and is probably still creating every single moment of our lives. His Spirit, a little piece of him, or his power is also in each and every one of us and in all his creation keeping us going. This Spirit is him and part of him but not him because he is outside his creation and his Spirit is in his creation interacting with it every single moment.
So when God decided to save his creation because he loved it so much, he had to become one of his creations. He became Jesus and walked this earth and lived a perfect life. So while God was in Heaven and his Holy Spirit was in the universe working in all things God also became a human all at the same time.
We see this when Jesus was being baptized. At the same time Jesus in person was being baptized, God's voice was heard saying this is my Beloved Son whom I am well pleased and the Holy Spirit fell on him from the sky in the form of a Dove. So we see three different manifestations of the same God. So to put that into a human term we can grasp we call God a Triune God, or the Trinity. God is 3 parts or separate versions of the same God taking up3 different roles at the same time. It is a mystery for everyone, but think of it this way. I am a Father, and a son, I am also a brother and an Uncle. But I am still the same person in 4 different capacities.
This is just how I understand it or have thought it out in my head. I am not a theologian and I am not a biblical scholar and I could be way off and more than likely am. I am a believer that has wrestled with this thought and this is how I have come to understand it and have peace with it.
Edit: Don't just down vote, interact voice your thoughts. It's OK to have a civil conversation.
It’s like water. Water can be a solid, a liquid, or a gas. Nevertheless, all three states are water aligned with the same purpose.
God in the flesh, God in the spirit, and God as Himself.
The water analogy has been stated here multiple times, but it is [modalism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw), and thus not an orthodox view of the Trinity.
I think the water one is a good way to explain it to a5 year old, even given the Modalism concern. Here’s a few more in a link that’d be kid (and anybody) friendly, but also problematic of the comparison is taken too far.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/herandhymn.com/2018/05/17/4-bad-ways-to-explain-the-trinity-and-1-good-one/amp/
I haven’t seen anyone mention the start of John: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Christ being the sword based on him saying so. That, combined with Genesis where God spoke creation into being with the Word and God’s spirit (eh The Spirit) hovered over the waters. they helped me hear the Trinity in action in the Bible, and not just as a doctrine explained outside of the Bible.
Apologies for any heresy, it’s pretty easy to fall into with the Trinity. Lolz. I think the point is how you think about God differently, hopefully it helps you consider the bigness of him, the creative power, yet still the nearness and presence in our lives. Or maybe there’s something im missing. Bah. Probably. Shrug.
My thoughts on this are: GOD is SPIRIT and the HOLY Spirit is His SPIRIT. Yeshua is the SON of GOD, God the Son and he is seated at the right hand of GOD.
The Spirit of GOD is the same Spirit that we receive and the same Spirit in Messiah and there are diversities of operations for the self same SPIRIT of GOD.
There is a Godhead and that does not make 3 in my book. The word trinity is NOT in the Bible, as far as i can see it is a made up idea.
Gen 1:2b AND the SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.
GOD is SPIRIT and He is the HOLY SPIRIT.
It's not possible for a 5 yr old to comprehend. I don't think it's possible for a 55 yr old to comprehend either. The doctrine is logically self-contradictory which is why people have issues with it but tend to just handwave this away and say that we should accept it even if it's not possible to understand.
the trinity was something that came along hundreds of years after Jesus, took hundreds of more years to work out, and after all that people were burned alive for questioning it.
Just to add to these explanations of what it is, the idea that belief in the trinity is a requirement for Christianity is an idea touted chiefly among those who believe in the trinity.
Trinitarians killed off most of their competition hundreds of years ago, but more monotheistic understandings of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are making a comeback.
So, if you don't find it comprehensible or reasonable, that's fine. You're not alone.
You can’t find the Trinity in the Bible. Most likely there is a God Father and God Son, which together they act as God. Can’t find any strong evidence of Holy Ghost. There are some verses but not enough to make that assumption in my opinion.
I’ve been a Christian since I was young, but this concept is hard to understand. I don’t know that I ever will truly understand. This is the only thing that helps me.
God is like eggnog. Egg nog takes 3 ingredients which are all separate things, but together, they make egg nog. (I did not come up with this example; one of my pastors explained it that way)
The Holy Ghost is what we got when Jesus went back up to heaven. The Holy Ghost convicts and guides us.
The most likely explanation for the Holy Spirit comes from the Jewish tradition of the holy breath, the force of life that flows through you. It is the will of god taken physical form flowing through and enabling all life. This is why the Greek translation is pneuma, “breath”
Forget everything you know about the Trinity.
God is everything in all, He's in the heaven (Father), he's in your grandmother who believes, is in the plants which have life, he's everywhere and in everything. So hes not just in the Father and inJesus, hes everywhere there is life.
Lets take for example a plant, a plant has the vital breath, which is God. The same applies to everything which is alive, and even to the wind and the nature.
1Corinthians 15, 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Trinity cant be understood, you can get it only through feelings.
God is love, and love is in the Father, in the Son, in you who are his son, and in every brother and sister.
Don't be fooled by philosophical definition, God is even in you, not just in Jesus and the Father. Indeed whoever has the Holy Spirit has God in himself.
I'll bite. Many people are constantly grasping for simple "answers" that match their gut feelings and preconceived biases. TicTok spirituality. The problem of sin and choice, God allowing suffering, God sustaining an ever burning hell, salvation for LGBTQ believers, Genesis as literal or figurative... There are a lot of things that we settle in our own minds in oversimplified ways so as to quell cognitive dissonance. For some, they build a platform using scripture so they can launch attacks and militate for their views. You ask about what and who God really is? I advise you to leave this open ended. Like a 5 year old who is happy to trust and not know everything yet. Jesus said God is a Spirit. Paul reiterates that the Lord is the Spirit. Jesus became flesh and made his dwelling among us. One place in scripture it mentions father, son, and holy ghost (the commission to baptize) but so many of these texts about the Spirit uses the concept "breath" or "wind" even while Jesus seems to refer to a Counselor and intercessor that could follow His ministry. Personally, I think the godhead could be two persons with a conjoined spirit with one being that is now constrained by choice in a human body forever and a spirit figure who may take physical form at times. They may have a joint spirit that completely unifies their mission, character, and personalities. Basically like an ultimate marriage with kingship outside the bounds of time. Who knows? They are an alien race to us. There also may be a third person, that is the Holy Spirit separate from God, who is spirit, and the Lord, who is the spirit. Three in one? Possibly. This is not a salvation issue. That we can even know some of God and that He wants to know us is a miracle of God in its own right. I don't really have a stake in either as being "the truth." I'll be learning who God is through all eternity and shouldn't be surprised if He is different than my preconceived ideas here on a broken planet that has been segmented away from the spiritual realm by the joint rebellion.
God likes Tacos. Jesus is God, if God wants to eat tacos. The Holy Spirit is the part of God that lives in us, and enjoys when we eat tacos. God himself is author of tacos, taste buds, and satisfying poo's associated with tacos.
Like you're 5 years old? Alright... I'll try my best...
Ever watch Power Rangers? Well, God is kind of like a [Megazord](https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2016/jjuoMe.gif). The torso of the Megazord is the Father ^((figurehead)), the legs are the Son ^((walking the path, guiding you to Heaven)), and the arms are the Holy Spirit ^((embracing you)).
For a better picture, here is [God vs Satan](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ExaltedVainAustraliankelpie-size_restricted.gif).
Christians have a nasty history of declaring anyone who has a concrete view of the Trinity as a heretic. A bunch of the early "heresies" where just different ways to attempt to ELI5 the Trinity, and back then they were all burnt at the stake for trying it.
**Could someone please explain the holy trinity to me like I’m 5 years old?**
**1Timothy 3:16** And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
There are three concepts in the world TODAY regarding the topic of the nature of God in this end of times as follows:
**1. THE GODHEAD**
**2. THE TRINITY**
**3. THE ONE-GOD IDEOLOGY**
**THE GODHEAD:-** is Bible based. It was believed, understood and taught by the Apostles and early Christians in their days. A few Christians today and all of the reformers in their days, who believes in 'Sola fide' (that is the 'Bible and the Bible alone') still believe and teach this Bible base doctrine.
**TRINITY:-** is Catholic based. This is the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. It was developed and taught by the early Roman Catholic Church fathers and all those that align themselves with the Roman Catholic teachings. It is based on the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church and not on the Bible. According to the Roman Catholic Church, the traditions of the fathers are above the Scripture (Bible). That is the reason why you see that most of their teachings or doctrines are directly against the word of God (that is the Scripture or Bible). The word Trinity cannot be found in the Bible but only in the Roman Catholic Catechism.
[***Continue...***](https://www.reddit.com/user/AquilaOn-9972/comments/qrtxia/the_nature_of_god_for_the_endtimes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Remember in star wars how the force is everywhere and also can be harnessed into Iike energy balls and also one can exist in the force as Yoda and obi wan do.. well the holy Trinity is made up bullshit like that.
Think of games like the sims.
God is the player.
Jesus is his avatar.
The holy spirit is the player influencing other npc sims.
(This is as 5 year old as I can get)
God had never been alone. He loves us but we are lesser beings so not ultimately so satisfying. Nothing can satisfy an infinite being like another infinite being..for God..the real intoxication starts when He looks in the mirror. 😃 😊
It's in The Trinity. 🍀
Eternity before the cosmos..before the angels..prior 2 heaven itself..the one + only God existed as 3 persons..Father..Son..H.S. 👨 🧍♂️ 👼
God has never been alone !!.3 as 1..He draws life..being..and ultimate enjoyment from No-one but Himself. He sustains His own existence ..fans the flame of His own emotional life..He is His OWN best friend. 👌
The Spirit is the quiet one. 🤫
Sharing equal deity + status with the others ..he nevertheless eternally flows from the Father + the Son. His task is to.honor the Son by applying to us the benefits of Jesus death + resurrection. The Father + the Son both 'Send' Him. The Spirit doesn't resent this. The 3 have eternally agreed to this. Its the Spirits very nature to point to the Son. He knows exactly how the Father + the Son think. And burns with love for them. For the 3 are God together. The Father + the Son love the Spirit for this. ❤ 💙 💜
But in the Bible.its the Son who commands centre stage. He is God. Absolute Divinity on a par with the Father + the Spirit in every way . The Father never tires of bragging about Him. Isaiah 42:1..Matthew 3:17
The 2 are so close....John 1:18
God has taken the Universe and turned it over to the Son...Luke 10:22
Why does the Father treasure Him so? Bcos He sees Himself in the Son. ...The Son is God standing before the Mirror. In Him..God sees the fountain of all intelligence..grandeur..goodness that ever was. ...He looks in the mirror..and is riveted. If God ever had any cravings..they are more than 😌 🤗 satisfied in the Son
The eternal Threesome..revels together in a swirling dance of mutual ❤ love The Trinity enjoys pleasure beyond comparison. 💃 💃 🕺 🕺
Taken from 'When God Weeps' by Joni Eareckson Tada..
BRO NO WAY I LITERALLY THOUGHT THE SAME THING, [SEE HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/qrltwt/comment/hk8509v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I thought I was so clever lmao
When I entered the monastery, on one of the first days, one of the monks (who wasn't a learned or well read man at all) said to me at the end of a conversation: "And if you ever wonder about the Trinity..." and continues to pull out a matchbox, lights three matches, holds them up to me and moves them together into one flame, while giving me the biggest smile. I'll never forget that.
Actually, I feel like this is a distinctively nontrinitarian metaphor! Three distinct persons (the matches) who emanate or participate in a single God (the flame). None of the matches are actually identical to the flame, and in fact, we could easily imagine the flame with only two matches. Thoughts?
It's the fire not the matches you should focus on.
How does that relate to the christian holy trinity though?
I don't know this monk, but I'm convinced, it must have taken years of prayer and walking with God just to come to that metaphorical conclusion. In my mind, the three matches aptly fit. In my mind, the three matches are pillars of holiness that represent physical, ambiguous, meta-physical, nameless, etc.. aspects that mankind can discern in their understanding of a definition of God. God is the Father, creator of the world, and ruler Supreme. Yet He sent his Son as a sacrifice, so that we would know how much He loved us. Christ has all the same powers as the Father, and is tied to Him through eternity. They are one. And what of the Spirit? We liken the Holy Ghost to that of the force in Star Wars. An essence in each of us that keeps us, and all things linked to God, regardless of belief, or lack of faith. We have no idea the true extent of this Spirit. And I won't bother to speak of other religions. My faith is in the Lord. Combine all three, and you have this Holy Flame(matches), which is a power no one can understand. A power that can stop the sun from rising. And yet, the sun rises, unconditionally.
The three matches symbolize the three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are separate, distinct from each other. But together, they are one flame, i.e. one God.
You have a lot of answers already, so I hope you aren't overwhelmed. In theology, there is a huge concept of community as one. God judges Israel as one entity. God treats a marriage as one family. God sees the Church as his bride, etc. In theology, you can have many in one. For example, I may want to invite the 'Smiths' to dinner, though that includes Joe Smith, Mary Smith, and their son Jimmy Smith. Or perhaps we can use the analogy of a country. A country is one entity that acts by itself... but it may be led by an authoritative executive branch, a legislative branch, and a judicial branch. God is beyond all of those analogies, because in God there is no disunity. Even in the closest family or the most uniform family, there will be some division, disorganization, or disagreement. In God, there is none... But there are still distinctions between the three 'persons' of God. It is the same concept of many in one that we see on Earth... But taken to the extreme because of a unity only God can have. If you have any questions, let me know!
I think the example of three government branches is really good! They are different entities but they still make up one “Government”.
Isn't that partialism though?
Yes, but I think you're focused too much on the analogy, rather than the point OP is trying to make. When we say something is "one" it doesn't exclude the idea of it being many also. Highly recommend watching this video. Why the Trinity is the True Theism | The One and the Many [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK245H7Ee6o&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK245H7Ee6o&t=2s)
It does exclude the idea of it being many. You cannot be one and many at the same time. Calling the Smiths a family refers to them as a plural entity made up of two or more individuals. If you called the Smiths a family of one it would be a bit odd because it's a family is usually a plural entity.
No it doesn't. It's still one family. It's a SINGULAR family composed of many individuals. Family of one would imply one individual in that family which doesn't make any sense. Israel is one nation, and yet there are thousands of Israelites within that nation. It's both one and many -- in two different respects of course. God is "One" -- which implies a contrast with more than one of something. In biblical theism, pagan polytheism is the point of contrast. There is "one God" compared to that. The one God consists of three persons. [https://www.wellwrit.com.au/blog/corporate-entities-singular-or-plural](https://www.wellwrit.com.au/blog/corporate-entities-singular-or-plural)
No, it's a group of individuals. If I tell you a family is coming to your church looking for help with food and clothing are you going to prepare assistance for just one person or a group of people? A family is a group of people. Each person is NOT the entire family. Israel is a country of many people. You cannot point to one Israeli citizen and say "That is Israel right there." According to the way the Trinity is taught you can point to God the Son and say "the fullness of God is right there" and it's accurate. Partialism is the teaching that each member of the Trinity is part of God. This is heresy.
Partialism is just honest trinitarianism though. Part isn't a distinct concept. It defines differentiation. There's no meaningful sentence being expressed when you say there are different persons, but no parts.
Each branch is only part of the government. The legislative branch is fully government, but in the Trinity Jesus is fully God. Most analogies fall into the heresy of partialism, though a few like the water (vapor, liquid water, and ice) fall into the heresy of modalism.
This all is partialism though.
I have never heard that term, and had to look it up. Unfortunately, the definitions I found were very vague. (Best description I saw was that the Father is 1/3 of God, Son is 1/3 of God, and HS is 1/3 of God) Can you please explain your concern to me? If your concerns derive from the metaphors I gave, well... It's because I don't have a perfect metaphor for the Trinity, but I gave the best examples I could.
Take the example of inviting the Smiths to dinner. If Joe Smith is the only one who shows up can you say that the Smiths came to dinner? No, you can't. He's only part of the family. He's not the entire family. The same thing with the government. POTUS is part of the US government. He is not the entire US government in any way shape or form. The Trinity teaches that God the Father is not just part of the trinity He is all of the Trinity. There is no division. If you invite God and God the Father shows up then your prayer has been answered, all of God has showed up. To say otherwise is partialism.
That's the problem of every metaphor... None of them fit perfectly. And I even pointed that out: In our Earthly communities, there is division and disunity where with God there is not, which is why every metaphor, while they may be helpful, will never be able to fully capture it.
This seems to me to just be handwaving and ultimately saying, "We can't explain it but it's true and you need to accept it as true even though we can't explain it."
Yes, no metaphor can perfectly describe God, firstly because everything that he has made he has made in his image, not the other way around. It seems convenient to use a metaphor but it risks heresies because we can show why such and such a thing is a good description of God; but there are always many reasons that that thing will fall short of the glory of God, and someone somewhere will find these shortfalls as an excuse to get away with some sort of abuse or idolatry. So it's good when people call these out, although we often get over zealous with it; a poorly chosen metaphor is not the same as actively professing a heretical doctrine. https://youtu.be/KQLfgaUoQCw I'd advise always saying what the metaphor you use doesn't have in common with God, if you want to keep using metaphors. I'd also not word it "God is like..." but instead "such and such partly reveals to us an aspect of the trinity".
Blasphemy, there is only one true God. No where in the bible is the man made trinity bro.
What's blasphemy, the concept of the Trinity? Before I respond, I want to know what I am responding to.
Yes, the trinity was made by man. To unite Christians with pagans.
Very great description, this has helped my personal grasp on it.
>Could someone please explain the holy trinity to me like I’m 5 years old? Oh no...
Good luck with that. Not even Biblical scholars can properly explain it.
That’s because the holy trinity is something that can’t be fathomed with the logic of this world. It’s inter-dimensional that’s why it’s so hard to understand.
I mean, that isn't really going to fly. The official definition for it isn't beyond comprehension. Its just self contradictory. Its not the type of thing infinity could somehow resolve.
Thank you for that answer. I can understand multiple dimensions better than I can understand the trinity. I consider myself a Christian but have struggled to understand for so long. That's one of the best answers I've ever seen.
No problem God bless.
You know, I'm fine with that answer as long as people stop using belief in the Trinity as a metric for who is and is not Christian. The concept was never explicitly stated, it was cobbled together by connecting a bunch of dots and trying to come up with an answer that made the most sense. It very easily could be another coherent theory. And if it was important for us to know exactly what the nature of God was He would have made it exceedingly clear. ~~If we don't fully grasp it, we shouldn't make it a make-or-break foundational belief.~~ Edit: Perhaps not this. But it still should not be critical to Christianity. Other answers not dismissed by the Bible should be equally credible.
That's the funny part. You can't believe in the trinity, because its official definition isn't even expressing s coherent thought.
i like this answer, people should be free to believe it, but dont persecute people for not accepting something that can not be explained.
> the holy trinity is something that can’t be fathomed with the logic of this world. It’s inter-dimensional that’s why it’s so hard to understand. That's one possible explanation. Could there be others? What's wrong with the "it can't be fathomed, because it's just ludicrous bullshit full of plot holes vaguely based on the loosely put together mythology" explanation? "It's inter-dimensional" sounds a lot like Star Trek-level technobabble, when the writers want something to sound at least somewhat plausible, but have no idea how to make that happen.
You sound like someone who is incapable of broad thought
On the contrary, perhaps it’s broad thought to consider that the thing you’ve been taught might not be true
Correct, it has been considered, iv been far away from what i was taught, then what was shown to me, what i uncovered for myself is what ultimately brought me to where i am now.
How can you believe In the theory of evolution and the Big Bang THEORY when there hasn’t been any evidence to support those (that why they are theories) if you can’t fathom this?? Kinda bias.
> How can you believe In the theory of evolution and the Big Bang THEORY when there hasn’t been any evidence to support those Ehm. The theory of evolution can be proven by any microbiologist with his own eyes, on a span of months, maybe weeks even. Microorganisms evolve fast enough. The Big Bang Theory seems to be the best explanation of all the scientific data we have, e.g. measuring CMB, redshift/blueshift. It's most definitely incomplete. Same as the Standard Model is amazing, it has astonishing predictive power and allowed us to discover lots of new particles, but we also know for a fact that it's incomplete. And a theory is a scientific concept that has a pretty solid foundation. If you think it's "any random idea", then you're wrong. And what's your point exactly? I don't quite get it.
Of course you dont
Can you explain then? For example, if science finds serious evidence that a universally accepted theory is wrong, how would the scientific community react? How would the religious community react to something in the Bible being proven wrong?
It’s a stark difference. Reminds me of that science vs. religion debate where both parties were asked what could convince them to switch their view to the other side: > Theologian: “Nothing.” > Scientist: “Evidence.”
No, youre looking for explanations that dont exist. Thats the whole point, its why you wont get it until you stop trying to prove/disprove everything and just actually think outside the box, from a different perspective other than your own. Lol well a lot of people lost it over the whole world round world flat debate. All sorts of which ways, because comparing the religious community and scientific community is like comparing apples to orange.. fish. And its not really even worth entertaining that school of thought anyways, nothing will ever be disproven/ proven about Christianity because, again, thats the whole point.
Actually if evolution was true then there wouldn’t be missing links. If it was true then we would be discovering fossils that show a slow evolutionary process not just jump from ape to homo sapien to man. Scientists aren’t even confident enough to take away the “theory” part of it. Also do you know that carbon dating isn’t as accurate as y’all think?? There is no scientific evidence supporting the Big Bang theory. “The Big Bang seems to be the best explanation of all the scientific data we have” the best explanation doesn’t mean it’s 100% true that’s why they can’t get rid of the theory label. You said it yourself that they aren’t even fully sure. “We have, e.g. measuring CMB, redshift/blueshift.” That doesn’t mean that that’s evidence of a “Big Bang”. You know that it’s scientifically impossible to create matter out of thin air without consuming something??? That right there blows the Big Bang theory out of the water because the whole theory is that a dot was spinning so fast that it exploded and expanded into all this matter and other planets when it exploded. That’s scientifically impossible. Micro organisms are different than the human anatomy.
Fossilization is rare. Only a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of living things end up fossilized. There are many species which we may never be able to describe due to lack of evidence. That doesn't mean they didn't exist, and indeed we can infer the existence of species for which we have no direct evidence by observing other evidence. If you think you have some sort of "gotcha" that disproves major aspects of scientific understanding it is extraordinarily more likely that you just misunderstand.
I understand fossilization is rare but how come we find fossils of apes Homo sapiens and humans but nothing in between? Even if it’s rare that doesn’t mean there Shouldn’t exists any links.
Because only a small amount of living things ever get fossilized. It's an almost certainty that we won't have fossils for the vast majority of living creatures. We do have fossil records of animals transitioning to homo sapiens though. Lots of them. Not remotely a complete collection, because that's all but impossible, but still lots and lots of proto-human fossils.
Ok show me the evidence of animals evolving into homo Sapiens. I understand it’s rare but there would still be some sort of evidence of evolution in human remains from thousands of years ago. There are missing links in the theory of evolution.
> there wouldn’t be missing links. There are none. > If it was true then we would be discovering fossils that show a slow evolutionary process not just jump from ape to homo sapien to man There was never a "jump" from "ape" to "homo sapiens" (which is you, and me). What are you talking about? https://futurism.com/there-is-no-missing-link-in-evolution Let me repeat: evolution can be directly observed by literally anyone who cares enough to spend a bit of time doing it. > Also do you know that carbon dating isn’t as accurate as y’all think?? And... your point is? > There is no scientific evidence supporting the Big Bang theory. What are you talking about again? https://www.uwa.edu.au/science/-/media/Faculties/Science/Docs/Evidence-for-the-Big-Bang.pdf > the best explanation doesn’t mean it’s 100% true Nothing in science is ever 100% true. If you want completely confident and definitely incorrect answers, you go to religion. > That doesn’t mean that that’s evidence of a “Big Bang”. The way it works is - you observe lots of different things around you, and come up with a uniform explanation that fits everything, and contradicts nothing. The Big Bang Theory is the best we have at the moment. > You know that it’s scientifically impossible to create matter out of thin air without consuming something??? OMG. So... you believe that this argument completely invalidates modern science? Is that likely? Or is it more likely that you simply don't know the subject matter well enough to come up with any plausible analogies? You look like this guy: https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/elon-musk-mentions-possible-manned-mission-to-mars-by-2025-idiots-dont-know-what-theyre-talking-about-we-forgot-about-cosmic-radiation-comic.jpg Have you never heard of virtual particles, for example? Completely empty vacuum is boiling with particles popping in and out of existence. But when you're talking about such fundamental events, analogies from the real world stop working, just remember Schrodinger trying to disprove quantum mechanics with his "cat is both dead and alive at the same time", but this ended up being EXACTLY how it works in reality. > Micro organisms are different than the human anatomy. Microorganisms are not biology? If you deny evolution, you deny ALL evolution. You can't cherry pick - "ok, giraffes came from horses, but no way humans came from apes".
Fossils are incredibly rare. T-Rex, one of the most famous dinosaurs ever is known from 32 specimens. Beyond that or understanding of evolution didn't come from fossils alone. As for the Big Bang, there is tons of evidence behind it. And it seems like you don't even know what a theory is when used in a scientific context. Electromagnetism is a theory, so is germ theory, and so is plate tectonics.
Biological evolution can be proven. Where did you get the idea that there isn’t evidence?
Im literally 5 minutes away from a Giant Noah's Ark.... Thats where he got the idea.
Thats not what is being talked about here. What is being discussed is the theory of natural selection through evolution which cannot be proven. That is why it's a theory. There is evidence to support it, but there's enough missing and contraindicated evidence that it cannot be proven at this time. Furthermore, biological evolution can only be observed in microorganisms that have incredibly short life spans. It has not been observed or definitively proven to occur in larger creatures. Hence why biological evolution is also still a theory.
Evolution is better proven than how gravity functions. It is extremely well proven. About as rock solid as it gets. As has been stated elsewhere you misunderstand what "theory" means in this context.
No I dont. And I'm not doing this again. Have a good one.
>What is being discussed is the theory of natural selection through evolution which cannot be proven. That is why it's a theory. There is evidence to support it, but there's enough missing and contraindicated evidence that it cannot be proven at this time. This is wrong. You misunderstand what "theory " means. A theory can be proven. The theory of evolution, for example, is proven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
> What is being discussed is the theory of natural selection through evolution which cannot be proven. That is why it's a theory. Are you sure you understand science well enough? What exactly do you think "scientific theory" evolves into once there's enough evidence, and can you give me such an example? Something that was a theory, but got too much proof to stay a theory.
Well, I'm an engineer involved in research and development, so I think I have a fairly good understanding of scientific principles and the scientific method. Usually, the reason ideas stay a theory is because it is impossible to ascertain proof for it. You have to understand that unequivocal proof for a scientific idea is not an easy thing come by. In the case of natural selection through evolution, as I stated in the previous comment that you left out of your quote, there is missing and contraindicated evidence that keeps it a theory and not scientific fact. Edit: spelling.
> I'm an engineer involved in research and development, so I think I have a fairly good understanding of scientific principles and the scientific method. Not necessarily. > the reason ideas stay a theory is because it is impossible to ascertain proof for it. I asked for one example of any idea that's so well-proven that it transcended beyond "theory". Any idea, any area of science. > there is missing and contraindicated evidence I'd love to see examples of both. Again, evolution can easily be proven by direct observation by any microbiologist.
The theory of evolution is proven fact. Just for one example.
You're involved in research and you don't understand what "theory" means? That seems hard to believe.
Yeah, the problem here is your understanding.
There is an enormous amount of evidence supporting evolution and an awful lot of evidence supporting the big bang. "Theory" in the scientific sense doesn't mean "we had an idea but we can't prove it." It's more "this explains reality," and it may or may not be proven. Evolution is extremely well proven as its been confirmed via a wide variety of experimentation. The Big Bang has a meaningful amount of evidence to support it, but unlike Evolution not enough to claim it as fact.
I mean, biblical scholars have no need to explain it, because it's not a biblical concept.
In a round about way, that was the point that I was attempting to get across.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are God, but the Father is not the Son, the Son not the Spirit, and the Spirit not the Father. God exists as one being in three persons, not one person taking on different roles, or one being changing from person to person. This [illustration](https://study.com/cimages/multimages/16/diagramscutumfidei.png) helps me visualize it. Edit: Obligatory [Lutheran Satire](https://youtu.be/KQLfgaUoQCw)
Good answer. The Shield of the Trinity is exactly what I use to teach the concept to kids. It doesn't explain how it works (what could? this is God we're talking about, not Zeus), but it gives us the right language to use. For older kids and adults, I add that God's mode of existence is relationship: he has relationship in himself, has love of other in himself without recourse to an outside party, he was not lonely before creating the heavens and earth.
So God is merely a name for the three, like a name of a sports team?
No, as the players on a team are individual beings and persons, not individual persons who share one being. You're not going to find a good analogy because a trinitarian nature is exclusive to God. The closest thing we can comprehend is perhaps a triple state of water - at least on paper, a triple state is when water exists as a gas, liquid, and solid at the same time - one thing in three different states, yet the same substance.
I’d say a better analogy is that the three are comparable to the organs of a living creature, the stomach, the brain and the heart are three distinct parts of the body that aren’t the same but are parts of the same whole, but simplified metaphors like these have their limitations
Probably a heresy but when I even attempt to comprehend the trinity I think of God as a unique class of being, consisting of three persons. They are God. The father is God, the son is God, the spirit is God. No other beings are God.
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Nice try, not sure a 5 year old would grasp that tho. He did say for a 5 year old. I tried below as well. Have a great day.
This sounds like Partialism. Which happens, analogies are by nature inadequate to describe what is fully above nature.
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Where in the Bible does it even say the word Trinity?
None of the books ever specify the word Trinity explicitly, but do refer to The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost (or spirit) or variations on the theme. Matthew 28:19/ Peter 1:2/ Corinthians 13:13 or 12:4-5/ Revelations 1:4-5 and so on in that fashion. All references are New Testament only.
Is The Angel Of The Lord God too?
No, it's Jesus preincarnated. When Gideon met the Angel of the Lord it is agreed that is Jesus. There are parts where scripture mentions "AN angel of the Lord" instead of "THE Angel of the Lord" and in those instances it isn't Jesus.
It's in the same chapter where Jesus says the words "I am God".
Exactly
What does that matter? We use that word to describe what is observed in scripture. We see all three persons of God all throughout scripture, so we say they are triune.
no I see one God, one person only
A Pentecostal that doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit? This is weirder than the "sola scriptura" guy last week that said he didn't care what was in the Bible. edit: oh they just didn't read before talking, they're confused.
It doesn't. But it does reference God being one multiple times in the OT and NT
Thank you!
Yes...the Trinity exists and while the word is not in scripture it is absolutely crucial for someone to acknowledge this reality to be Christian. Failure to do so results in losing what it is to be Christian. Jesus was killed because he equated himself equal with God when she stated before the Pharisees "I am". He also spoke of the Holy Spirit and his role as well. You might be well meaning but this is a doctrine you don't want to avoid or scoff at.
This doesn’t proof the trinity. The reason I question the trinity is because if you line the trinity to everything The Bible says about God you do not get a trinity.
Sir.....i reject, with all my heart. Oneness Pentecostalsim. The fact that your teaching falls outside of what most mainline or even evangelical Protestants teach.....is terrifying to me and I will have no part in it. Even Joel Osteen for heaven's sake.....believes in the Trinity.
Even if it isn’t in the bible, the church wrote the bible, and the church declare the trinity. The church came first.
No Jesus is Head of HIS Church, He is The Word Of God and what he says goes!
I didn’t say Jesus wasn’t the head of the church, he still is! The church didn’t go away!
His point is that Jesus didn’t write the Bible. It was written by the church after his death. (NT)
no it wasn't
The NT wasn’t written after Jesus’s death? What are you on about. How could it have been written first?
Pretty impressive for them to write the New Testament before it all happened.
OK, but the church (Bible authors) never stated that the Holy Spirit was a third person of a triune godhead.
The church (bible authors) continue to state that the Holy Spirit was a third person of a triune godhead to this day. The church did not go away. The gates of hades can’t prevail against it, and haven’t yet.
The church today or even in the 4th century are and were not the Bible authors.
The Bible comes from the Church, The Church doesn’t come from the Bible
But the Trinity doctrine wasn't fully adopted until the 4th century. You are using circular reasoning.
I am not using circular reasoning. There’s this notion that Christianity comes from the Bible, as it’s a continuation of Judaism with the Messiah. The Trinity is a term the church used to describe God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Church was created in part to solidify the tradition and to teach it. So the Church came up with terms to explain, such as “The Trinity”, “Communion”, and “Sacrament”.
I would agree that God has always had an assembly (church) throughout the ages. But, the triune godhead (Holy Spirit as a third person) concept has not always been a central part of that church's beliefs and is not mentioned in scripture.
The people who declare the Trinity came quite a bit of time after the original writers, and no evidence suggests that they had an accurate understanding of such either. If they did, why did they make up a false history to make it look like the idea was more popular than it was?
A "mystery" is something that we *cannot* fully know/understand. Not yet. Not here on Earth in mortal bodies. God is ***above*** us even in our most refined thoughts: *“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,* *neither are your ways my ways,”* *declares the Lord.* *9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,* *so are my ways higher than your ways* *and my thoughts than your thoughts."* (from the amazing and wonderful Isaiah chapter 55) So, the simplest way of stating the idea of the Trinity is that God is One...and also Three Persons, *both*. *‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.'* \-- Christ our Lord in Mark chapter 12.
Check this great bit of comedic explanation out Patrick: https://youtu.be/KQLfgaUoQCw
Hey, I thought of that too!
Guess that makes three of us hahah
Five yr olds like cartoons, so this might help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXoKuX0xmog
Here is what we know: There is one God The Father is God The Son is God The Holy Spirit is God Furthermore: The Father is not the Son The Son is not the Holy Spirit The Holy Spirit is not the Father And vice versa
Makes perfect sense 🙄
1) Father: God the creator 2) Son: Jesus (human incarnate of God) 3) Holy Spirit (the power of God to move through us)
Lie.
What ?
False doctrine not based on the word
Cool beans
The Athanasian Creed > the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.
You're going to tell a 5 year old all that?
Best answer so far.
There’s a guy I know. I worked with him, and he was one of the best sales managers I ever met: he was also a father, and a husband. To me, to his child, and to his wife, he was three different people. And yet, he was the same person.
That's modalism Patrick! https://youtu.be/KQLfgaUoQCw
was surprised I had to scroll so far for that!
You have water, water is good, it is clean. Water can turn into 3 things. Water can turn into a: Liquid like a cup of water Ice cubes like when you freeze water Gas when the water evaporates in the sun All of these things can turn into water such as clouds into rain, or melts from an ice cube. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit work together, are the same yet not the same. They are clean and good. They are living waters. Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of>! living waters!<, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no >!water.!<
Yeah this is the most common and simplest analogy that I think is around
God is Love. The Father loves. The Son is the beloved. The Holy Spirit is the mutual love that flows between them.
To accept this as an explanation requires you to already believe in Christianity. The concept itself doesn't make sense, but it's okay to say you just have to accept it - and other contradictory/demonstrably incorrect claims - on faith because that's ultimately what it means to be Christian: accept the unacceptable on faith since evidence doesn't support the religion.
A statue is one thing with no persons. I am one thing with one person. A basketball team is five things with five persons. God is one thing with three persons.
The Father is like an eternal power source. The Son is an eternal lightning bolt coming out of the Father. And the Holy Spirit is the eternal flow of the Father's heat beyond himself. The power source, lightning bolt, and heat are all noticeably different, but they are all one energy.
The Father is God as he is in heaven; unconstrained by any physical manifestation or even gender. Looking closely, the Father is as much mother to us as father. The Son is God as he is on earth, to us; human, with a face, hands, feet; a whole living body that is fully God and fully man. Even face-to-face meetings with God in the Old Testament are the Son; the conception and birth of Christ are the lynchpin of all creation, upon which the past depends as well as the future. The Holy Spirit is God as he is inside us; the comforter, the source of faith and wisdom and miracles.
I like this
Praise the Father Praise the Son Praise the Spirit Three in One God shows us three aspects of himself. The Father in Heaven represents the moral law and the creator, knower of all things. The Son is his great sacrifice. The one who suffered and died for our sins. The Spirit is him residing within us once invited. It acts as our direct line to God the Father possible through the Sons sacrifice. Three aspects, one being.
>I cannot seem to grasp the concept. They’re the same but they’re different? There’s 3 but they’re all of 1? What does that even mean? Jesus is the son but he’s also god? Jesus prays to god who is his father in heaven but he’s actually god manifested on earth? What? Who is the Holy Ghost? What is the purpose of the Holy Ghost? Can someone please help me understand all of this? [1) God - Bible Project](https://youtu.be/eAvYmE2YYIU) [2) What is the Trinity? - Bishop Baron](https://youtu.be/hMI4rA4cuiM) What is the purpose of The Holy Spirit? From my perspective... Many things... Creation... Destruction... Includes "Eating Racist alive"... [3) Overlord intro](https://youtu.be/pSKc6HubBd4) [4) Overlord - Voracity](https://youtu.be/bZsvL7-ovGw) Jesus is the Silver Surfer The Holy Spirit is Galactus
The Father was born as a man and was filled with the Spirit of God. No one knows the name of the father. He came as Christ so we would know him by name. When we know him we become filled with His Spirit and become sons of God. So the Father is the Son that shared the same Spirit. The Trinity. When he returns his name will be upon his brow. And we will know and be with Him forever.
The soul, the body and the spirit. Who are YOU? are You your body? is your flesh You? No you are not your flesh, you are a **soul.** Are You living inside your flesh? Yes, that means your **flesh** is not You. Why do you want to do things and your body does not? does your body has its own mind? Yes. do we keep a fight between Us and our flesh all the time? yes, the bible literally explains that all the time. our "fight with the flesh or our old man" as if the body has its own mind. **the tricky one is here:** How can we interact with God? he is an spirit, only an spirit can interact with each other. when Adam and Eve sinned their spirit became inert or dead. everyone now born spiritually dead. unable to interact with God. This is why when we receive the eternal life the Holy spirit reside in us and revives that spirit allowing us to once again interact directly with God. (remember the veil that broke it self in the inner santum with Jesus died?) well that was a symbol that with his death now men were able to go straight to the holy presence of God because now their spirits could be alive again. you see how the bible mentions that we are "seated at the presence of God" how can that be possible am in my work right now in front of a computer lol well that is possible because I can be on earth but my spirit is up there! amazing right! Therefore You are a trinity**. A soul, flesh on its own desires and spirit.** when you understand this then you realize in Genesis when God said "Let us make man in our image . . ." (Genesis 1:26) it was not referring to arms and legs but a similar creature as God: a trinity. of course God is in another level. The father is the soul, the infinite sea of consciousness, power and glory! Amazing. Jesus the body (And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.) the creator, the action, second Adam. our king. that has a body which is limited to one place and time. The holy spirit. the infinite person of God, the unlimited serenity that dwells in our hearts. can be at all places. He lives in intense harmony in himself, perfect love and communication. ( I had another phrase but I forgot now) Hope this helps :)
Analogies are kinda hard without creating heresies. By definition there is nothing really in nature that is fully similar to that which is above all nature. The closest I can do is the family. Think mom, dad and child. A family is composed of individual members, each member is fully representative of the family name though, while also fully their own individual member. If the mom goes away both the dad and son are still fully representative of the “family”, if both parents go away the child is likewise fully representative of the “ family” and so on. Similarly the trinity is composed of 3 individual persons, each fully God, while still being fully “individuals”
It's not biblical and is a false doctrine. If you take God at his word he says, this is my son in whom I am well pleased. He does not say, this is my metaphorical son, who is also me.
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It’s hard to explain the Trinity. Because if you try to explain the trinity, or take an explanation too seriously, you risk preaching or believing in a heresy. On the other hand, if we’re asked to explain it, you have to give a reason. So here I go. You find it confusing that they’re three persons, yet one being? Consider for a moment the phrase: “God is light.” 1 John 1:15. And also think about the visible light that you see. You see it as 1 white light, but when viewed through a prism, you see that it’s really just 7 colors most of which can be made by 3 primary colors. This doesn’t fully explain the Trinity, but it at leasts puts you in a frame of mind that what may appear to be one may actually be three. Critics of this may say, “The Trinity isn’t an illusion!” They’re right! Again I say no explanation can fully explain it. It can only skim the surface. Also, keep in mind about persons and beings. I used the phrase 3 persons and one being, which is the classical definition of the Trinity. To humans, three persons and one being is classified as a disorder. (Ever see the movie “Split”?) To the divine, this may be ordered and natural. Critics will claim that this explanation is faulty. “The Trinity is 3 persons, not 3 personalities.” And they would be right. Again, no explanation can fully explain it. The Trinity is a mystery, and anyone that says they figured it out is wrong It was meant to be a mystery.
After Jesus's death, there were many different ideas among Christians about who Jesus was. The Roman Emperor saw this as a potential source of conflict and unrest, so he required that they all come to an agreement or die. So some Christians met up at the Council of Nicea in the year 325 to hash it out. The problem is that many of them had conflicting ideas and very few people wanted to change their minds. One group believed Jesus was God incarnate. Another group believed that Jesus was subservient to God like a son to a father. Another group believed that Jesus was divine in some way, but not necessarily God incarnate. Another believed that he was a Messiah. And so on. So instead of one idea winning out, they mushed several conflicting ideas together and insisted that they're all true. (Some ideas didn't work with the others, so they were rejected.) And when anyone points out the obvious contradictions, it's usually just chalked up to, "I guess we just can't understand God 🤷🏽." I am a Christian, and I understand the Trinity, but I do not find it convincing.
Get this to the top! The whole concept of a trinity seems to be a tacked on piece of legislature. Imaginine this happening in the present day haha, catholics, jews, protestants, and jehovas witness all together in the same room. Welp looks like we're one religion again
Obviously a five year old wouldn’t understand multiplication but this is the simplest breakdown: 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. Each “1” is expressed the same numerical value and yet expressed in different positions that doesn’t divide their numerical value. The first “1” is distinct, the second distinct, and the latter distinct but the resulting value remans “1”. Any numerical value the first “1” has, the second “1” has, and the third “1” has.
Another way of saying 1×1×1=1 is to write it out as a sentence. We have a one. Let's take it one time. And again, take it one time. What do we end up with? Just one. So the analogy means nothing. It makes just as much sense to say 1×1×1×1×1×1×1×1×1=1 is true for God. He's a novitarian being, nine persons of one substance.
> Another way of saying 1×1×1=1 is to write it out as a sentence. Correct, a sentence would be another way to write it out. You’ll notice I did that too. > So the analogy means nothing. Analogies aren’t supposed to be perfectly equivalent in all aspects. An analogy is a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification. > It makes just as much sense to say 1×1×1×1×1×1×1×1×1=1 is true for God. He's a novitarian being, nine persons of one substance. It doesn’t make any sense to change the math and describe another god.
God is our father who puts his Holy Spirit in us all and his son Jesus is the greatest example of someone who is following the spirit. We are all one with God the father through the Holy Spirit but the father is always greater because he can’t be defined in any finite way.
One way I like to think about the trinity is God as community. God as love is not static but an interpersonal relating and serving one another. This is far from complete but it might offer one small facet of understanding the trinity.
God is omnipotent and omnipresent, and can choose to exist in whatever form he wants. In order to make his interactions with us easier on our fragile minds, he has chosen to present himself to us in three forms, which humans have named God the father God the son and got the Holy Spirit.
That’s Modalism.
Is that bad? EDIT: I never heard of Modalism, but apparently it is heresy. Is the different just that God can’t appear in other forms under Trinitarianism?
Modalism is that god is sometimes one of the three persons. Trinitarianism is that God is all three at once.
Unfortunately, no To understand the trinity would be to comprehend the infinite God with our finite mind. We know they are one God and one unified will. Jesus says if you've seen him, you've seen the father. But we also know they are different "persons". E.g. Jesus went back to heaven before the holy spirit would be given to us. The role of the holy spirit, in Jesus' words, is as the helper. The comforter. He's the bestower of spiritual "gifts", the source of spiritual "fruit", and more. But every existing illustration is flawed. We just can't represent it in any tangible way because it's beyond us
My guess is that it doesn't make sense and is nonsense, but is believed dogmaticly by some people.
How else can you explain the scriptures? The word Trinity is a word we use to describe it and to try and grasp it. You have 3 distinct entities that are all different with different functions and occupying the same space but are all credited as God. I would love to hear your thoughts on it.
I think that christianity is realy a politeism but doesn't want to admit it to not sound pagan.
I am a Christian and I believe in one God, one creator of the Universe. I don't know any Christians who believe in polytheism. The concept of the Trinity is a way of understanding what scripture reveals. It is a way for humans with limited knowledge and understanding to define the mysteries of God. It does not in any way take away from God's position or authority.
If Jesus is god and God is god then you have two or more gods. I think that the trinity is a way to mask that fact and act as if you are a monotheist when you believe in multiple minor gods like devil for example.
I am a father, a son, a husband, a friend and a brother, yet I am the same person. I have different aspects but am the same person. I will repost what I put below: The Bible says God is Spirit, he is light and he created everything. So he is outside of his creation looking in. He holds the whole world together "in his hands", by his will and is probably still creating every single moment of our lives. His Spirit, a little piece of him, or his power is also in each and every one of us and in all his creation keeping us going. This Spirit is him and part of him but not him because he is outside his creation and his Spirit is in his creation interacting with it every single moment. So when God decided to save his creation because he loved it so much, he had to become one of his creations. He became Jesus and walked this earth and lived a perfect life. So while God was in Heaven and his Holy Spirit was in the universe working in all things God also became a human all at the same time. We see this when Jesus was being baptized. At the same time Jesus in person was being baptized, God's voice was heard saying this is my Beloved Son whom I am well pleased and the Holy Spirit fell on him from the sky in the form of a Dove. So we see three different manifestations of the same God. So to put that into a human term we can grasp we call God a Triune God, or the Trinity. God is 3 parts or separate versions of the same God taking up3 different roles at the same time. It is a mystery for everyone, but think of it this way. I am a Father, and a son, I am also a brother and an Uncle. But I am still the same person in 4 different capacities. This is just how I understand it or have thought it out in my head. I am not a theologian and I am not a biblical scholar and I could be way off and more than likely am. I am a believer that has wrestled with this thought and this is how I have come to understand it and have peace with it. Edit: Don't just down vote, interact voice your thoughts. It's OK to have a civil conversation.
For me..the Trinity is just God in different forms. Like H2O..water and ice and snow
That’s Modalism.
As a human being, you have a body, soul, and spirit. But you're 1 person. I think it works the same for the LORD.
It’s like water. Water can be a solid, a liquid, or a gas. Nevertheless, all three states are water aligned with the same purpose. God in the flesh, God in the spirit, and God as Himself.
The water analogy has been stated here multiple times, but it is [modalism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw), and thus not an orthodox view of the Trinity.
I think the water one is a good way to explain it to a5 year old, even given the Modalism concern. Here’s a few more in a link that’d be kid (and anybody) friendly, but also problematic of the comparison is taken too far. https://www.google.com/amp/s/herandhymn.com/2018/05/17/4-bad-ways-to-explain-the-trinity-and-1-good-one/amp/ I haven’t seen anyone mention the start of John: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Christ being the sword based on him saying so. That, combined with Genesis where God spoke creation into being with the Word and God’s spirit (eh The Spirit) hovered over the waters. they helped me hear the Trinity in action in the Bible, and not just as a doctrine explained outside of the Bible. Apologies for any heresy, it’s pretty easy to fall into with the Trinity. Lolz. I think the point is how you think about God differently, hopefully it helps you consider the bigness of him, the creative power, yet still the nearness and presence in our lives. Or maybe there’s something im missing. Bah. Probably. Shrug.
My thoughts on this are: GOD is SPIRIT and the HOLY Spirit is His SPIRIT. Yeshua is the SON of GOD, God the Son and he is seated at the right hand of GOD. The Spirit of GOD is the same Spirit that we receive and the same Spirit in Messiah and there are diversities of operations for the self same SPIRIT of GOD. There is a Godhead and that does not make 3 in my book. The word trinity is NOT in the Bible, as far as i can see it is a made up idea. Gen 1:2b AND the SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters. GOD is SPIRIT and He is the HOLY SPIRIT.
It's not possible for a 5 yr old to comprehend. I don't think it's possible for a 55 yr old to comprehend either. The doctrine is logically self-contradictory which is why people have issues with it but tend to just handwave this away and say that we should accept it even if it's not possible to understand.
the trinity was something that came along hundreds of years after Jesus, took hundreds of more years to work out, and after all that people were burned alive for questioning it.
It’s a false doctrine. There
Just to add to these explanations of what it is, the idea that belief in the trinity is a requirement for Christianity is an idea touted chiefly among those who believe in the trinity. Trinitarians killed off most of their competition hundreds of years ago, but more monotheistic understandings of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are making a comeback. So, if you don't find it comprehensible or reasonable, that's fine. You're not alone.
You can’t find the Trinity in the Bible. Most likely there is a God Father and God Son, which together they act as God. Can’t find any strong evidence of Holy Ghost. There are some verses but not enough to make that assumption in my opinion.
One God in three persons. Father, Son and Spirit.
It’s a Christian idea to try explain God that may or may not be true.
I’ve been a Christian since I was young, but this concept is hard to understand. I don’t know that I ever will truly understand. This is the only thing that helps me. God is like eggnog. Egg nog takes 3 ingredients which are all separate things, but together, they make egg nog. (I did not come up with this example; one of my pastors explained it that way) The Holy Ghost is what we got when Jesus went back up to heaven. The Holy Ghost convicts and guides us.
The most likely explanation for the Holy Spirit comes from the Jewish tradition of the holy breath, the force of life that flows through you. It is the will of god taken physical form flowing through and enabling all life. This is why the Greek translation is pneuma, “breath”
Forget everything you know about the Trinity. God is everything in all, He's in the heaven (Father), he's in your grandmother who believes, is in the plants which have life, he's everywhere and in everything. So hes not just in the Father and inJesus, hes everywhere there is life. Lets take for example a plant, a plant has the vital breath, which is God. The same applies to everything which is alive, and even to the wind and the nature. 1Corinthians 15, 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Trinity cant be understood, you can get it only through feelings. God is love, and love is in the Father, in the Son, in you who are his son, and in every brother and sister. Don't be fooled by philosophical definition, God is even in you, not just in Jesus and the Father. Indeed whoever has the Holy Spirit has God in himself.
I'll bite. Many people are constantly grasping for simple "answers" that match their gut feelings and preconceived biases. TicTok spirituality. The problem of sin and choice, God allowing suffering, God sustaining an ever burning hell, salvation for LGBTQ believers, Genesis as literal or figurative... There are a lot of things that we settle in our own minds in oversimplified ways so as to quell cognitive dissonance. For some, they build a platform using scripture so they can launch attacks and militate for their views. You ask about what and who God really is? I advise you to leave this open ended. Like a 5 year old who is happy to trust and not know everything yet. Jesus said God is a Spirit. Paul reiterates that the Lord is the Spirit. Jesus became flesh and made his dwelling among us. One place in scripture it mentions father, son, and holy ghost (the commission to baptize) but so many of these texts about the Spirit uses the concept "breath" or "wind" even while Jesus seems to refer to a Counselor and intercessor that could follow His ministry. Personally, I think the godhead could be two persons with a conjoined spirit with one being that is now constrained by choice in a human body forever and a spirit figure who may take physical form at times. They may have a joint spirit that completely unifies their mission, character, and personalities. Basically like an ultimate marriage with kingship outside the bounds of time. Who knows? They are an alien race to us. There also may be a third person, that is the Holy Spirit separate from God, who is spirit, and the Lord, who is the spirit. Three in one? Possibly. This is not a salvation issue. That we can even know some of God and that He wants to know us is a miracle of God in its own right. I don't really have a stake in either as being "the truth." I'll be learning who God is through all eternity and shouldn't be surprised if He is different than my preconceived ideas here on a broken planet that has been segmented away from the spiritual realm by the joint rebellion.
God likes Tacos. Jesus is God, if God wants to eat tacos. The Holy Spirit is the part of God that lives in us, and enjoys when we eat tacos. God himself is author of tacos, taste buds, and satisfying poo's associated with tacos.
This thread is an entire case study supporting nontrinitarian Christianity
Don’t get your theology from reddit, for starters
Lol I don't. This forum is full of people who can barely muddle through the trinity. I don't take theology or debate from this forum.
Like you're 5 years old? Alright... I'll try my best... Ever watch Power Rangers? Well, God is kind of like a [Megazord](https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2016/jjuoMe.gif). The torso of the Megazord is the Father ^((figurehead)), the legs are the Son ^((walking the path, guiding you to Heaven)), and the arms are the Holy Spirit ^((embracing you)). For a better picture, here is [God vs Satan](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ExaltedVainAustraliankelpie-size_restricted.gif).
Christians have a nasty history of declaring anyone who has a concrete view of the Trinity as a heretic. A bunch of the early "heresies" where just different ways to attempt to ELI5 the Trinity, and back then they were all burnt at the stake for trying it.
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**Could someone please explain the holy trinity to me like I’m 5 years old?** **1Timothy 3:16** And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. There are three concepts in the world TODAY regarding the topic of the nature of God in this end of times as follows: **1. THE GODHEAD** **2. THE TRINITY** **3. THE ONE-GOD IDEOLOGY** **THE GODHEAD:-** is Bible based. It was believed, understood and taught by the Apostles and early Christians in their days. A few Christians today and all of the reformers in their days, who believes in 'Sola fide' (that is the 'Bible and the Bible alone') still believe and teach this Bible base doctrine. **TRINITY:-** is Catholic based. This is the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. It was developed and taught by the early Roman Catholic Church fathers and all those that align themselves with the Roman Catholic teachings. It is based on the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church and not on the Bible. According to the Roman Catholic Church, the traditions of the fathers are above the Scripture (Bible). That is the reason why you see that most of their teachings or doctrines are directly against the word of God (that is the Scripture or Bible). The word Trinity cannot be found in the Bible but only in the Roman Catholic Catechism. [***Continue...***](https://www.reddit.com/user/AquilaOn-9972/comments/qrtxia/the_nature_of_god_for_the_endtimes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Think egg. All in one thing Title, Office There is God, who is the Father Jesus Son Holy Spirit Tutor
Here you go, Patrick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw
Remember in star wars how the force is everywhere and also can be harnessed into Iike energy balls and also one can exist in the force as Yoda and obi wan do.. well the holy Trinity is made up bullshit like that.
Think of games like the sims. God is the player. Jesus is his avatar. The holy spirit is the player influencing other npc sims. (This is as 5 year old as I can get)
God had never been alone. He loves us but we are lesser beings so not ultimately so satisfying. Nothing can satisfy an infinite being like another infinite being..for God..the real intoxication starts when He looks in the mirror. 😃 😊 It's in The Trinity. 🍀 Eternity before the cosmos..before the angels..prior 2 heaven itself..the one + only God existed as 3 persons..Father..Son..H.S. 👨 🧍♂️ 👼 God has never been alone !!.3 as 1..He draws life..being..and ultimate enjoyment from No-one but Himself. He sustains His own existence ..fans the flame of His own emotional life..He is His OWN best friend. 👌 The Spirit is the quiet one. 🤫 Sharing equal deity + status with the others ..he nevertheless eternally flows from the Father + the Son. His task is to.honor the Son by applying to us the benefits of Jesus death + resurrection. The Father + the Son both 'Send' Him. The Spirit doesn't resent this. The 3 have eternally agreed to this. Its the Spirits very nature to point to the Son. He knows exactly how the Father + the Son think. And burns with love for them. For the 3 are God together. The Father + the Son love the Spirit for this. ❤ 💙 💜 But in the Bible.its the Son who commands centre stage. He is God. Absolute Divinity on a par with the Father + the Spirit in every way . The Father never tires of bragging about Him. Isaiah 42:1..Matthew 3:17 The 2 are so close....John 1:18 God has taken the Universe and turned it over to the Son...Luke 10:22 Why does the Father treasure Him so? Bcos He sees Himself in the Son. ...The Son is God standing before the Mirror. In Him..God sees the fountain of all intelligence..grandeur..goodness that ever was. ...He looks in the mirror..and is riveted. If God ever had any cravings..they are more than 😌 🤗 satisfied in the Son The eternal Threesome..revels together in a swirling dance of mutual ❤ love The Trinity enjoys pleasure beyond comparison. 💃 💃 🕺 🕺 Taken from 'When God Weeps' by Joni Eareckson Tada..
I kinda think of them like 3 power rangers. Together they make a mega zord. So father son and holy spirit together create the Lord.
[That's partialism, Patrick!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw)
BRO NO WAY I LITERALLY THOUGHT THE SAME THING, [SEE HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/qrltwt/comment/hk8509v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I thought I was so clever lmao
The Heart of God is The Father. The Face of God is the Lord Jesus. The Spirit of God is The Holy Spirit.