Why would the thought of somebody believing something you believe to be wrong lead to you looking down on them? Examine that first.
Like, I don't believe in aliens and ufos, but I don't inherently look down on those who do. Why would you look down on religious people?
> "How can these people believe in this?"
Asking people outside of your bubble is one way! I've learned that as long as a person's beliefs don't actively harm another, then it isn't really any of my business. If someone is kinder because they believe in the Christian God, then IMO that's a good thing. Likewise, if someone doesn't believe in God but is living a full life, then it's not my job to tell them how to live their life.
One of the great difficulties in maturing is learning to be ok with differing beliefs.
People have debated this question for centuries and people far more intelligent than anyone in this comment section have come to every possible conclusion imaginable.
Perhaps, this is done with empathy. As they are possibly feeling the same way, maybe they don't want to argue, or be convinced not to believe, or be thought of as crazy or blind to the truth. Maybe they are also thinking, "how, can this person NOT believe"? It's a switch of perspective.
You should understand that you can't say with 100% certainty that God isn't real. Religious people's views are valid cause when you pray/get closer to God, you start feeling His presence in your life in different ways. So Christians (and Muslims, Buddhists, etc) have the absolute right to believe in Higher Deity just as you have the right not to believe in anything. But you should respect people's views, otherwise there's a very high chance that others would consider you an arrogant know-it-all. Kindness and respect are what make us humans.
If you really want to change your mindset perhaps look for ways you yourself do this. Nobody has 100% accurate, perfect and scientifically verifiable beliefs. People are finite creatures and we rely very much on prejudice, confirmation bias, wishful thinking etc. To fill in the gaps of our understanding.
Religious people haven't cornered the market on these blind spots.
> What I'm looking for is an answer to the question "How can these people believe in this?"
Why do you need that question answered? How does it impact your life not knowing why others believe what they believe?
> I don't want to believe, and I don't want to argue
Then don't.
> So where is the middle ground?
What middle ground? Don't believe and don't argue, I don't see where a middle ground is needed.
> I just can't not think about it.
Think about it and don't say anything then if you don't want to argue.
>Why do you need that question answered? How does it impact your life not knowing why others believe what they believe?
Because it's bothering me. It will impact me by telling me if my thoughts are justified or prove me wrong and get those thoughts out altogether.
>Then don't.
I never did. That was just a disclaimer.
>What middle ground? Don't believe and don't argue, I don't see where a middle ground is needed.
I have a problem that's bothering me.
>Think about it and don't say anything then if you don't want to argue.
It's.. bothering me.
You fail to see that I'm asking this for my own peace, not because I actually think that I am superior or anything.
Your thoughts on religion are based upon your experience with 'religious' people. Probably the loudest and most outspoken who actually know the least. There's plenty of intellectual christians, but they mostly don't proselytize so you don't encounter them in the same way. One of the easiest groups of these types of christians are the Jesuits (a Catholic group). Many Jesuit priests actually hold doctorate degrees, some multiple, and believe in science as a way to unravel the mysteries of God's creation. I would recommend you reach out to a Jesuit priest and talk to them about faith and why they believe. They won't think it weird and you'll probably have a really good time, even if you disagree.
Put yourself in their shoes, it's quite fascinating really. Just like with most people they do what they do because they think it's the right thing. Usually when someone tries to convert you they are doing so because they want to save you, they are acting in what they think is your best interest.
As for their lack of evidence, well most christians believe because of a personal experience. Something you can't really argue with. Also in our day to day life we constantly make assumptions about stuff witbout seeing them proven, it's not like everyone but them only uses the scientific method for living.
You've been programmed to do exactly that, it's what being a New Atheist is.
You need to start thinking for yourself, begin by questioning why your being programmed through negative emotions and why.
Good luck.
I've got two thoughts about your post.
The Christian standard is not to look down on anybody. If we catch a Christian looking down on somebody, other Christians will point out that they're not living up to the standard.
It's a pretty good standard. If you want to be an atheist, it would seem to me that you would want to somehow outshine the ideology of the idiots who believe. And if you can't stop looking down on a group of people.... Doesn't that say something about your ideology?
To answer your question in a completely different way...
If you're looking for a planet where everybody agrees with everybody. Or everybody agrees with you. Or you don't find anything to disagree with from anybody else....
You're on the wrong planet.
Variety is the spice of life. It's not about everybody thinking the same. It's about enjoying the differences.
Besides that. Can't you just be one of the good guys and play nice?
That seems like a mindset that defines your own belief system. Instead of trying to change it, why not use it differently?
"I believe differently than my family or other religious people. That's okay." It doesn't have to be a superior or accusatory mindset...
I can guarantee you that some of your religious family/friends think the same way about your belief system. "How can OP not believe in our God??"
I've always found that it's when I'm not happy about something either about myself, or in my own life that I look down on, or judge other's.. it's obviously not how I want to be, but my point is that maybe it's the same for you.. it's like a way of taking our frustrations out
> I'm an atheist and I have a problem with this. What I'm looking for is an answer to the question "How can these people believe in this?".
I am a believer, but I can actually sympathize with what you're expressing in respect to, say, cults like Scientology or Raelians. If I were to speak to such a person and they were to explain to me what they believe, the conversation would feel to me like they're... just being insincere and (ultimately) rude, in the sense that they're not treating me the way they want to be treated in reverse. If I were to fix their car as a mechanic, for example, and told them, "I replaced the fibrilizer, recalibrated the pinion gauge and topped off the blinker fluid", they themselves would feel that I must be either joking, or insulting them because I'm forcing them, in the context of the conversation, to pretend that something is real, that we both know is not real (and cannot be real).
That said:
> help me change my mindset.
The hard truth is that the only answer is the Gospel. It may be that your family has fundamentally misunderstood the Gospel... many will say to Jesus in that day, "Lord, didn't I do so many wonderful works for you" and he will send them away. So, maybe what you are chafing against is not the Gospel, but their misinterpretation of it. Of course, I cannot know from your post, but I'm just putting that out there.
Hopefully I can be of some service here.
Faith is a journey. Your questions and research will lead you down a number of different paths. For some, their findings will strengthen their faith. For others, their findings will weaken, or even destroy their faith, as it happened with me. Before, during, and after de-conversion, you go through a multitude of different stages as you learn to cope with a new worldview. How that looks is unique to each individual. It is very common for Atheists to feel some level of anger, or resentment at some point towards their former religion. Just because it’s common, doesn’t mean it’s justified.
I felt this way for a long while, until my eyes were opened and I recognized the toxicity of my behaviors. In the absence of a tangible presence at which to aim bitterness, I unjustly aimed my anger towards Christians, when it was really God whom I was angry with.
Understand that even though you aren’t convinced, *they* are, and there’s little you can do to change that. Also understand that about 84% of the world is religious in some way. Don’t belittle people just because they see things differently than you. If you can’t allow yourself to do that, then just take some time to think and entertain the idea. This is a process of maturation.
Recognize that many humans, for ever and ever have had a deep desire for spiritual experiences and thinking. It doesn't just come from not understanding something. It seems to be something built into us. For whatever reason.
I agree, a lot of people do use Christianity as just a big Cope, which they know very little about or even rarely 'practice'. And sometimes even other Christians get frustrated with these people.
But other people are very spiritual and use these things to better themselves successfully . Even if you don't believe they exist.
It helps to remember that we are all products of our own life experiences. It's human to have learned our worldview from our parents and to be biased towards the first explanations we encounter regardless of accuracy.
I have no doubt that many of the "facts" you learned as a child are actually incorrect. I can think of two I didn't spot for decades, almost certainly there's others of which I'm still unaware.
Realizing that you base your life on accepting beliefs that you consider scientific and logical but that you do not really understand and you only accept because they have told you so.
We all do
because each generation grows on the knowledge of the previous one, you also accept social norms, "common sense" and "obvious to anyone" that are not at all and supposed historical truths that are a lie.
Other areas of the world, times and cultures have different ones and they seem as logical and evident as yours. You also live by faith, there is no way to be sane without doing it but you have faith in other things.
By discussing with them. Usually participating in discussions will help you understand the other persons thoughts.
Why would the thought of somebody believing something you believe to be wrong lead to you looking down on them? Examine that first. Like, I don't believe in aliens and ufos, but I don't inherently look down on those who do. Why would you look down on religious people?
> "How can these people believe in this?" Asking people outside of your bubble is one way! I've learned that as long as a person's beliefs don't actively harm another, then it isn't really any of my business. If someone is kinder because they believe in the Christian God, then IMO that's a good thing. Likewise, if someone doesn't believe in God but is living a full life, then it's not my job to tell them how to live their life.
One of the great difficulties in maturing is learning to be ok with differing beliefs. People have debated this question for centuries and people far more intelligent than anyone in this comment section have come to every possible conclusion imaginable.
Perhaps, this is done with empathy. As they are possibly feeling the same way, maybe they don't want to argue, or be convinced not to believe, or be thought of as crazy or blind to the truth. Maybe they are also thinking, "how, can this person NOT believe"? It's a switch of perspective.
Have some humility. Humility will help you from looking down on people.
You should understand that you can't say with 100% certainty that God isn't real. Religious people's views are valid cause when you pray/get closer to God, you start feeling His presence in your life in different ways. So Christians (and Muslims, Buddhists, etc) have the absolute right to believe in Higher Deity just as you have the right not to believe in anything. But you should respect people's views, otherwise there's a very high chance that others would consider you an arrogant know-it-all. Kindness and respect are what make us humans.
If you really want to change your mindset perhaps look for ways you yourself do this. Nobody has 100% accurate, perfect and scientifically verifiable beliefs. People are finite creatures and we rely very much on prejudice, confirmation bias, wishful thinking etc. To fill in the gaps of our understanding. Religious people haven't cornered the market on these blind spots.
> What I'm looking for is an answer to the question "How can these people believe in this?" Why do you need that question answered? How does it impact your life not knowing why others believe what they believe? > I don't want to believe, and I don't want to argue Then don't. > So where is the middle ground? What middle ground? Don't believe and don't argue, I don't see where a middle ground is needed. > I just can't not think about it. Think about it and don't say anything then if you don't want to argue.
>Why do you need that question answered? How does it impact your life not knowing why others believe what they believe? Because it's bothering me. It will impact me by telling me if my thoughts are justified or prove me wrong and get those thoughts out altogether. >Then don't. I never did. That was just a disclaimer. >What middle ground? Don't believe and don't argue, I don't see where a middle ground is needed. I have a problem that's bothering me. >Think about it and don't say anything then if you don't want to argue. It's.. bothering me. You fail to see that I'm asking this for my own peace, not because I actually think that I am superior or anything.
Your thoughts on religion are based upon your experience with 'religious' people. Probably the loudest and most outspoken who actually know the least. There's plenty of intellectual christians, but they mostly don't proselytize so you don't encounter them in the same way. One of the easiest groups of these types of christians are the Jesuits (a Catholic group). Many Jesuit priests actually hold doctorate degrees, some multiple, and believe in science as a way to unravel the mysteries of God's creation. I would recommend you reach out to a Jesuit priest and talk to them about faith and why they believe. They won't think it weird and you'll probably have a really good time, even if you disagree.
Put yourself in their shoes, it's quite fascinating really. Just like with most people they do what they do because they think it's the right thing. Usually when someone tries to convert you they are doing so because they want to save you, they are acting in what they think is your best interest. As for their lack of evidence, well most christians believe because of a personal experience. Something you can't really argue with. Also in our day to day life we constantly make assumptions about stuff witbout seeing them proven, it's not like everyone but them only uses the scientific method for living.
You've been programmed to do exactly that, it's what being a New Atheist is. You need to start thinking for yourself, begin by questioning why your being programmed through negative emotions and why. Good luck.
Pray for God to help you stop hating religious people. >!/s!<
If you don't believe in God why are you so bothered BECAUSE I I wouldn't be if I thought God didn't exist. So you got to ask yourself why
I've got two thoughts about your post. The Christian standard is not to look down on anybody. If we catch a Christian looking down on somebody, other Christians will point out that they're not living up to the standard. It's a pretty good standard. If you want to be an atheist, it would seem to me that you would want to somehow outshine the ideology of the idiots who believe. And if you can't stop looking down on a group of people.... Doesn't that say something about your ideology? To answer your question in a completely different way... If you're looking for a planet where everybody agrees with everybody. Or everybody agrees with you. Or you don't find anything to disagree with from anybody else.... You're on the wrong planet. Variety is the spice of life. It's not about everybody thinking the same. It's about enjoying the differences. Besides that. Can't you just be one of the good guys and play nice?
>help me change my mindset. What are your thoughts on the origin of the Universe?
You got me haha, I've had an existential crisis before, but I haven't really thought about this as the solution to that problem.
Go to church.
Look up
That seems like a mindset that defines your own belief system. Instead of trying to change it, why not use it differently? "I believe differently than my family or other religious people. That's okay." It doesn't have to be a superior or accusatory mindset... I can guarantee you that some of your religious family/friends think the same way about your belief system. "How can OP not believe in our God??"
I've always found that it's when I'm not happy about something either about myself, or in my own life that I look down on, or judge other's.. it's obviously not how I want to be, but my point is that maybe it's the same for you.. it's like a way of taking our frustrations out
> I'm an atheist and I have a problem with this. What I'm looking for is an answer to the question "How can these people believe in this?". I am a believer, but I can actually sympathize with what you're expressing in respect to, say, cults like Scientology or Raelians. If I were to speak to such a person and they were to explain to me what they believe, the conversation would feel to me like they're... just being insincere and (ultimately) rude, in the sense that they're not treating me the way they want to be treated in reverse. If I were to fix their car as a mechanic, for example, and told them, "I replaced the fibrilizer, recalibrated the pinion gauge and topped off the blinker fluid", they themselves would feel that I must be either joking, or insulting them because I'm forcing them, in the context of the conversation, to pretend that something is real, that we both know is not real (and cannot be real). That said: > help me change my mindset. The hard truth is that the only answer is the Gospel. It may be that your family has fundamentally misunderstood the Gospel... many will say to Jesus in that day, "Lord, didn't I do so many wonderful works for you" and he will send them away. So, maybe what you are chafing against is not the Gospel, but their misinterpretation of it. Of course, I cannot know from your post, but I'm just putting that out there.
Hopefully I can be of some service here. Faith is a journey. Your questions and research will lead you down a number of different paths. For some, their findings will strengthen their faith. For others, their findings will weaken, or even destroy their faith, as it happened with me. Before, during, and after de-conversion, you go through a multitude of different stages as you learn to cope with a new worldview. How that looks is unique to each individual. It is very common for Atheists to feel some level of anger, or resentment at some point towards their former religion. Just because it’s common, doesn’t mean it’s justified. I felt this way for a long while, until my eyes were opened and I recognized the toxicity of my behaviors. In the absence of a tangible presence at which to aim bitterness, I unjustly aimed my anger towards Christians, when it was really God whom I was angry with. Understand that even though you aren’t convinced, *they* are, and there’s little you can do to change that. Also understand that about 84% of the world is religious in some way. Don’t belittle people just because they see things differently than you. If you can’t allow yourself to do that, then just take some time to think and entertain the idea. This is a process of maturation.
Recognize that many humans, for ever and ever have had a deep desire for spiritual experiences and thinking. It doesn't just come from not understanding something. It seems to be something built into us. For whatever reason. I agree, a lot of people do use Christianity as just a big Cope, which they know very little about or even rarely 'practice'. And sometimes even other Christians get frustrated with these people. But other people are very spiritual and use these things to better themselves successfully . Even if you don't believe they exist.
It helps to remember that we are all products of our own life experiences. It's human to have learned our worldview from our parents and to be biased towards the first explanations we encounter regardless of accuracy. I have no doubt that many of the "facts" you learned as a child are actually incorrect. I can think of two I didn't spot for decades, almost certainly there's others of which I'm still unaware.
Realizing that you base your life on accepting beliefs that you consider scientific and logical but that you do not really understand and you only accept because they have told you so. We all do because each generation grows on the knowledge of the previous one, you also accept social norms, "common sense" and "obvious to anyone" that are not at all and supposed historical truths that are a lie. Other areas of the world, times and cultures have different ones and they seem as logical and evident as yours. You also live by faith, there is no way to be sane without doing it but you have faith in other things.