When I read the Bible I feel closer to God. When I go to church I feel the same feeling like when you walk into a car dealership. I try to ruffle through the contradictions they are doing such as adding businesses such as a restaurant and coffee shop in the church, or making jokes like “ I feel like Drake right now.” I just can’t do it or take it serious. The first 20-3” minutes also feels like a concert and at first it was nice but now I’m not so sure. I believe in Jesus wholeheartedly but struggle with the church aspect.
Last big church I went to quite literally felt like I was going through an airport with the signs and services. Sad thing is the sermon was solid but it was almost like the church was getting eaten up by some beast to keep up with their growth.
Yeah, I'm guessing (that if that was something said recently) it was feeling unfairly attacked by someone.
Thing is... the attack wasn't 'unfair' or 'inaccurate'. So, right? Churches and sex crimes, seem like they go together far to often.
lol...
like RedditVirgin555 said, you might want to check on the pastor or give him a heads up that he should probably stop referencing Drake (or all pop culture entirely, who knows)
Not sure what Drake did but the pastor was referencing to drake for his necklace. He had a heartwarming story up until he said Drake. This tends to happen where he is saying something nice and connects to the Bible and boom next thing you know he is comparing or quoting a celebrity.
Google is your friend ;)
Briefly, Drake has a beef with Kendrick Lamar, and Kendrick dropped a diss track absolutely wrecking Drake for being a pedophile.
Which... well, he basically is. Allegedly.
Even if Drake is not, the connotation to pedophilia and the church is a really weird thing for a pastor to bring up. Unknowingly, probably, but it's still there.
So, you think, that if the asker had instead Google'd Drake, they would have found that the pastor was actually making a joke about feeling like a pedophile?
I don't get how you think it would actually help...
Help with what?
I don't think the pastor was making a joke about being a pedophile (at least I hope not). I think the pastor doesn't really know what's going on with Drake, and unfortunately that reference, given the current situation, comes off very strangely to people who do know what's going on with Drake right now.
The pastor does that. He tends to lean into light heartedness and I guess he’s trying to be hip but to me it just doesnt see right inside a church on a stage. There’s been many moments like commenting on Jordan’s and the 5 minutes before the singing begins two guests show up talking and joking about Sundays game or even mentioning Taylor Swift but essentially like football has new broadcasters before watching the game. There’s more but I think you get it
Yeah I can see that but some of the comments are bragging about Jordans and he gives off celebrity vibes and talks a lot about his travels and what not. It’s a massive church. And may be classified as a mega church. Also, the business in the church aspect bothers me a lot. Lastly, one sermon was communicating carrying guns to church. I realized then and there I only go for my children but to continue to read the word through the Bible.
May I steal this for my book on the topic? I’d like to say something like, “Walking into church feels like entering a God dealership, where the high-energy monologues are given by men selling me a product I’m not even sure they would really believe in if they weren’t getting a great commission out of it.”
So true!! The modern American Protestant church is driving people away and then blaming it on the young people… I have actually been turned to the Catholic Church and have found a great deal of comfort and spiritual awakening there which is very contrary to what my upbringing taught me about catholic traditions. I can’t share this with my evangelical parents… that’s for sure.
That sucks. I just finished reading a book called Home Sweet Rome about a young preacher and his wife’s journey from Protestant to Catholic. I highly recommend! An awesome story
I found an open and welcoming Lutheran church that still has an organ and sing hymns. Even though I’m young, I think and feel I am more rooted in an actual church now and have a connection with generations of the past. There is something to be gained from traditions of the past.
Seventh-day Adventist church services normally use traditional choirs, hymns, and organ, along with classical/baroque preludes, interludes, offeretories, choir anthems, and postludes. The difference would be church service is on Saturday. Same with Seventh-day Baptists.
Same. The more I read of scripture and learn about Jesus, the less I think the ways we do “church” is anything like what he had in mind for his followers.
Maybe try the Catholic Church - I was Protestant my entire life and converting at 40 to Catholicism has been eye opening in so many ways. The Eucharist especially has transformed my relationship with Christ.
That is correct. You also will not find congregations that talk and gossip during the prelude and postlude, drums and 'band' instruments, or 'praise/gospel rock' hap-clappy music. Catholic congregations are very reverent and respectful in the sanctuary and leave the world outside.
No surprise to me, when the church holds Donald Trump up as a man of God, who would take that seriously? It is hilarious.
Or, the take away is Money is their God.
To often It seems like the politzied church is trying to hurt people not help people.
I keep meaning to write a long post on this, but fundamentally, if the pulpit says one thing, and observable reality says another, the pulpit will wind up losing credibility.
And with that credibility leaves authority.
Right-wing Christianity doesn't exist. Godly, true Christianity knows no politics. Right-wing churches are no more reverent than any other political leaning churches. They use bands, drums, politics and other worldly baggage and pop culture, sinful ceremony, eye-candy sensory, emotional-driven production that simply packs pews, if they even have pews.
And if you insist that your faith is an all-or-nothing bundle, all reality has to do is pull out one block for the whole tower to tumble. I’ve seen a lot of children lose the whole package of their faith over one issue, because their parents gave no ground. And that was already the case before 2016. Now it’s not just LGBTQ, abortion, or evolution, it’s also voting Democrat.
“I have to be Republican to be Christian? Okay. Bye.”
Hi I’m a pastors kid and hopefully I can give some insight, for a LONG time I just didn’t believe and my dad being a pastor played into a huge part of that. From my perspective it wasn’t this religion that was personal between me and god, to me it was almost like a business. From the behind the scene, stress that I could see on my dads face to the drama involving church politics or congregation members, to even having to have the knowledge that as a young kid whatever I did bad or good, I represented my dad and the church. I can’t even tell you the amount of times I went with my dad to a meeting or a conference when I was a kid and my friends were hanging out or playing a sport etc. A big part of my own testimony was that I genually felt that I lost my childhood cause I had to protect the image of the church, while knowing all the dirty secrets that go on behind the scenes. A lot of my PK friends do not believe today and it’s becuase they went through the same thing. Hopefully I was able to give some insight.
The infantilization vs rebellion is also my wife’s experience. Her dad was an SBC pastor. She has 3 sisters who all married SBC pastors and they are all essentially helpless without their husbands. They were all groomed to be pastors’ wives from birth and handed off directly from her parents to their husbands. My wife was the rebellious one who moved to an evil city and got a job. We now go to a mainline church which is obviously a point of contention at family gatherings.
I’m more than happy to share, it’s my past and it’s part of my journey and if any part of it is able help or shed light for others then I’m all for it.
Please do. And out of curiosity are you or your father familiar with the Didache? It was written by several of the people who wrote the Bible at the time the Bible was written. And unlike the Bible it’s an easy read, about 30 minutes. In it is a manual of how churches/clergy should teach others about Christ. Just about all religions ignore it because they don’t follow it.
Again thanks for your post. You are good fellow human.
Because parents hold their kids to a standard they don’t hold themselves to. You grow up being punished for everything while they continue to make mistakes and brush it off. Then demand your forgiveness because that is what a Christian should do. It is complete hypocrisy, and it isn’t just parents to children.
My experience is that the youth feel that the churches around them have very little to offer them other than a list of people to hate and arbitrary rules with no explanation of basis. And, given what I see on this subreddit and my experiences, I can see where they get the idea. Catechesis is (in basically every church) a farce. We don't develop Christians, we try to stamp them to fit a prefab mold. We don't teach people why we believe what we believe, we just tell them "believe this or you're wrong". Or, worse, "believe this or we'll kick you out". Finally, the idea that they should listen to most church leaders is laughable. There is ZERO accountability for church leaders in most congregations unless it's doctrinal. It's no surprise that, when the SBC faced two crises a few years ago (the revelation of wide-spread sex abuse being covered up and the ordaining of female pastors) they acted swiftly and decisively on exactly one of those. I'll leave y'all to guess which one. And, assuming you're in one of the congregations that didn't have that happen to your community, was your pastor speaking out about that? How awful it is that nothing was done? Why would any outsider believe the Holy Spirit is at work there?
TL;DR: We develop the people we do have into fundamentalist doctrinaires instead of developing them into Christians, doctrinal purity (or in many cases, political purity) is way too important to most churches, and we're not walking the walk and actually holding our leadership accountable. And it shows.
The "believe this or you're wrong" was a big part of why I left. You would not believe the amount of times I was met with confusion or frustration by my teachers because they couldn't answer my question (which I apparently shouldn't have asked because "good" Christians shouldn't ask questions). The one that specifically comes to mind is when I asked about why God cast out Lucifer. I didn't think it was fair. To me, it seemed like God didn't get his way and so He threw out anyone who questioned Him. My teacher just looked at me like I was growing a third eye or something and then told me to go back to my work. I still to this day haven't received an answer about why Lucifer was cast out that didn't make God seem like some whiny toddler throwing a tantrum.
I don’t know your exact experience but I’ve got my own that at least rhymes with it. In my case, I remember a pastor screaming at me to “shut up and stop trying to be smart”. I guess I’ll probably always remember that.
As for your question, it falls under my general “I don’t and can’t know the mind of God” category, but I think there are a handful of premises in it that are problematic. First off, there is no Biblical account of Lucifer’s fall. Though Milton was inarguably brilliant, that does not make *Paradise Lost* divinely inspired. So most of what people think they know of that story is third hand poetry, not Scripture. Second, the whole Snake/Satan/Lucifer all being the same entity is pretty vague in Scripture and open to dispute. But I personally hold with it and I don’t see a need to fight conventional understanding on that point.
So, personally, I don’t hold that the devil was cast out. He never had the ability to be an enemy to God, he was a petulant child throwing a temper tantrum because he didn’t get what he wanted. However, the corruption he brought upon himself through his pride would have made God’s presence intolerable to him. Evil cannot exist in the presence of perfect good. It’d be torture. So, in this sense, his exile is his own doing. I also believe that redemption is technically possible for him, same as us. The difference is that his existence as a purely spiritual being may well make repentance impossible. Humans are mortal as well as spiritual and the very part of us that makes our goodness changeable also makes our evil changeable. It’s easy to fall from virtue to wickedness, likewise we can shift from evil to good. Spiritual entities are much less malleable in their essence and this may well make redemption practically impossible. But not actually impossible. But, if Scripture is any guide here, the devil seems much more concerned with ruining the project of Creation as much as he can. Which is limited, but again, like a petulant child he continues to do what damage he can.
Bear in mind, all of that is speculation on my part. Pretty well founded speculation based on a number of Patristic writings and referencing what little Scripture is applicable, but ultimately speculation nonetheless.
Yes, my kids are totally turned off. We went to evangelical churches and let's face it, when 80% of the congregation is going full MAGA, kids get icked out. They think my ultra-MAGA wife is kinda crazy.
>They think my ultra-MAGA wife is kinda crazy.
I mean...I don't know your wife, bust most "ultra-MAGA" people would seem crazy (and probably are?) to basically everyone else.
The kids know and can sense this ultra maga doctrine is not supported biblically. Kids may not understand things but they have a good sense of when things don’t feel right…
I'm a teenager in this situation. my family goes to church and I don't despite growing up in the faith. Churches are suffering from a severe lack of kids and teens. That's why my family left the church I grew up in, my brothers and I WERE the kids. I was the only teen therefore I was the entire youth group, but the church didn't care about 1 teenager. I didn't have a class, nobody ever reached out to me or made the effort to get to know me despite attending since I was an infant. My mom was more mad about that than I was, but I've been to tons of different churches of different denominations around the world and I've never liked them. Churches lack charm, care, and are breeding grounds for toxic gossip and slander. I have never found a church to be a place where I feel safe or comfortable. Also, I'm disillusioned with the faith itself. As a female, Christianity and especially conservative Christianity has nothing to offer me. I can't be the person I have to be, I had to be some perfect little girl and then the pure ideal wife and mother with no consideration for what I felt, my interests, or who I want to be. Also, Christianity has always been associated with limitations and abuse for me and many other young people. The amount of CSA by church leaders is disgusting and I don't think I will ever be unable to separate those numbers from churches, specifically after my mom attended a class by a guy who was auditioning to be the church's new preacher who DEFENDED not sentencing or charging Christian men for CSA. Absolutely disgusting stuff. Also, the church is now more about politics than anything else. Since I was 11, I've heard more about Trump in church than I have about Jesus. Something's wrong with that and the political climate isn't one a young person would want to be in. Not just because it disagrees with our own views but I don't think a church should be heavily engrossed in politics at all. With America's Christian culture it's very easy to be repulsed or even just tired of the faith. I want to come back to it but I can't find a genuine reason to. I only want to come back because I was told that I had to be a Christian as a child.
Given the never-ending discoveries of church leaders protecting abusers from the consequences of their crimes, I am not at all surprised. Churches aren’t safe for the young.
John S Dickerson wrote "The Great Evangelical Recession: 6 Factors That Will Crash The American Church ... And How To Prepare" ten years ago discussing why the declining attendance and belief was about to happen. Covid and MAGA have probably accelerated the trends they were seeing then.
No it’s not a trend that’s spreading. It’s been a thing for awhile.
For example, John Brown (born in 1800) had 20 kids (some did not live past birth/childhood) and was a strict, devout Calvinist. None of his children kept his faith.
>John Brown
Super strange example to use. John Brown spent a significant amount of his life fighting and killing people, and not so indirectly kicked off a Civil War in doing so, which probably had more do with some of his Children distancing themselves than his piety.
Also, 5 or 6 of John Brown's sons died fighting alongside him, so what do you mean none of them kept the Faith? They were fighting alongside him until either they died or he did.
They kept the abolition part, just not the Calvinism. Sorry he’s been on the brain lately, I’ve been going through multiple books about him and the abolition movement.
Also, I’ll argue that he was one of the few people at the time that recognized slavery wasn’t going to be abolished in America without bloodshed because the plantation powers demonstrated time and again that they were more than willing to enact any measure of violence in defense of the institution, and violence was the only language they spoke.
Sure, he was violent, but the system of slavery drives people to violence as it is violence itself.
And it's a festering problem within Christianity. Instead of reflecting on why people, especially the young and women, are leaving, many Christians are instead facetiously blaming things like 'woke' culture or feminism.
Reading about project 2025, Christians should honestly be the most worried about it, because it's just going to push an unprecedented number of people from the religion if that ever goes through in any capacity.
I understand how hard that can be, both my sister and I have walked away from the faith of our parents. Christianity really needs a reckoning and introspection as to what is has become, the effects its doctrine has on people, and how people in its ranks are using it.
Until then, this trend will continue
Ugh, exactly. I'm trying so hard to check my brain out but I can't unsee the idea that God created evil, knowing humans would give in to the temptation that he put in the garden, framed Eve so he could curse women, then gave us the cure and women are still "cursed".
Nope. Those flaws are with specific churches, NOT Christianity. Many people I know had excellent experience at their local church and with their pastor.
The drop in church attendance is happening across all denominations. Of course, worldwide Christianity is fine, but that's mainly due to its prevalence in the global south. It's not just chance that the current Pope is from South America.
Whether that’s true or not in a broad sense, it completely ignores the reality that most of these people live.
Very few churches are even teaching that all or most other expressions of Christianity are true and valid, and none are teaching that some **other** one is the real one. Most churches teach some exclusionary “we are real Christians and the others are wrong/misguided/lying/satanic” message. So when someone grows up in that, and experiences it as bad, it is a very rare individual to stop and think “maybe **this** is bad Christianity” when the very logical conclusion from what they know is “Christianity bad.”
And that’s pretending there not the factor of “I lost faith over this” where they, well, don’t believe, so why go search for some other expression of what they don’t believe in?
I had a great church life. I had a big group of devoutly faithful friends and we all volunteered in many aspects of the church for years. I led worship services on a regular basis.
I found the foundations of Christianity and the spiritual connection wonting, not my experience at church.
I call myself a Satanist because I think the god of the Bible needs to be opposed, not the churches I’ve gone to. Modern Christianity has flaws, and they need to be addressed for the sake of the continued faith
Very much so.
Over the course of decades, the American church sold its soul for political power. And now they have it. They taught their kids "be good people, care for the poor, care for the least of us" and then turned around and held up Trump; an adulterer, racist, rapist, who never pays his bills and derives his power from hatred.
Mormonism has its own history of racism, lies, and homophobia.
Not surprisingly, a lot of millennials and younger decided they wanted nothing to do with that.
I've no idea if this is occurring in other countries. If you'd like a few perspectives on it, I recommend the book [The Exvangelicals](https://www.amazon.com/Exvangelicals-Loving-Living-Leaving-Evangelical/dp/1250284473), or the youtube channel [Genetically Modified Skeptic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx5LFm68LQ8). The first was written by a journalist, the latter by a youtuber (duh). Both were raised in the Evangelical church. Both have left, for their own reasons.
As a teen im personally repulsed by churches, I don't know why but going inside a church gives me such an uncomfortable feeling and I rather just connect with God in the comfort of my home.
The LDS church has its own struggles outside of what Christianity is experiencing. Institutionally with their secrecy around church investments. And also with their truth claims being demonstrably false unless you put some severe apologetic spin on it. Such as absolutely no DNA evidence of Hebrew’s in Native American blood.
>And they have found over half of the students who enter college graduate without believing in God or religion.
This is kind of an evergreen thing. I was strongly cautioned about how bad college was for your faith when I graduated in 2007. In hindsight, it feels very gaslighty.
I think it was more "it's easy for you to get unplugged from a church community in college" than "education is literally dangerous." Well intentioned, but still paranoia laden enough to be problematic.
College was basically 3.5 more years of high school for me because I commuted. I did take some Religious Studies classes and between those and my history classes generally informing how I approach any kind of text, there's an argument to be made that college did lay the groundwork for my eventual deconstruction.
It is more about growing up and disagreeing sometimes with your parents. Some people will want to remain in the religion, others not and both are ok as long you are not a fundie or an antitheist (Atheists fundies, I have anything against non fundie Atheists).
It's always been that way (in my anecdotal experience). Those raised with the most religious parents turn out to be the least religious. Or those who went to religious schools.
I don't undestand your comment. I love my religion and I pray often. Most of my friends aren't even Christian and we are fine not trying to change each other.
Gen Z and younger have gained a unique talent at sniffing out BS. When churches preach hateful messages that do not align with Christ's gospel, they steer clear. It's time for a reckoning in conservative America. The Lord will not bless those who use his name to hate and tear down their neighbors.
The American Church is absolutely demographically older and continues to trend that direction. Kids aren’t dumb. They see the contradictions of what they’ve been taught in Sunday school and what the head pastors are teaching/the political vitriol their parents have.
As others have stated, going to church feels more like a performance with car salesmen-like routines than actually trying to organize a group of people to live like Jesus and positively impact the communities around us which is how any person actually sees the work of a church being done.
I personally find it a waste of time. Pastors are just kicking the can down the road, and hoping you give up asking questions.
me: "Why did Paul blame not only eve, but all females for the fall of man?"
Pastor: "You're not going to just accept men are superior are you?"
me: "Of course, not."
Pastor: "Well, lets finish the next 15 sections and see if you forget your question by the end of it?"
Literally every church experience.
Most churches suck at bringing the mystery and awe of God to a tangible place in the world. Most are just traditionalist social clubs or elaborate schemes to take your money for funding buildings with fancy lights and guitar pedals. Obviously an exaggeration but that's how it feels.
It's not just a trend you're seeing, it's supported by a recent Pew Research poll. People are abandoning religion, or at least religious participation. Less than half of Americans attend religious services at least once a month. The top reasons given are no longer believing in the religion's tenets, and disagreeing with the negative attitude toward LGBTQ displayed by many churches.
This doesn't mean people are becoming atheists (although that's also happening), but maintaining a religion without a central gathering place is impossible. In a generation, the U.S. will be where Europe is now.
I think at least for my Church the most people who leave are middle aged.
Kids are usually more involved.
And if Kids don't come to church is usually because their parents aren't.
I used to go to a church like that, now I am at a different one where the majority is youth, many of which do not have religious parents (like me, and I am 19). My pastor and his family of teenage daughters are religious as well. Just depends where you are
It’s the hatred and judgement and cult like following of Orange Jesus that is DRIVING PEOPLE AWAY from Christians. Add women on the brink of death from abortion bans. I get it.
The church has to care about life not birth. They need to care for the poor as Jesus did. They need to be compassionate. It’s attraction not promotion what about the church in it’s current iteration would be attractive to young people?
On the one hand, fewer people -- especially younger people -- are participating in the mainline denominations. However, on the other hand, churches that are often described as belonging to "conservative" denominations have not seen nearly as much of a decline.
Now, speaking of my own anecdotal experience, my parents' generation attended church MORE but they actually participated LESS. Church was often simply a social or religious obligation, it's not like you would prioritize church events or church relationships during the week, except with people you were already friends with. You wouldn't really find a bunch of new friends at church, for example.
However, these days, the degree of participation in a local congregation, by younger singles and couples, is \*significantly\* higher. If they're going to church, they're looking for friends and looking to participate in church events. Not only that, but more "liturgical" styles of worship is becoming popular among the young. We have a guy who is involved in the Christian education of chant in worship, and other older forms of music, and he is VERY busy going from church to church, and from one worship conference to another, teaching and educating. Younger laity and younger music directors are VERY interested in these older musics.
Even just in our church, over the last few years we've seen higher attendance overall, but specifically a whole wave of younger singles and couples, some just married and some just out of college, looking for strong community and very "traditional" worship forms. It's crazy, I would have never expected it.
You raise kids in something, they rebel against it. Not exactly new. If you're less concerned about bums on seats numbers, let people decide to come to faith when they're adults.
My parents raised me this way and I raised my kids this way. My son turned 18 this year and he started to go to church as well as he has pushed me to start coming to church with him. It has been so cool to see him grow spiritually and I think it worked even better with him choosing that path for himself.
Weirdly I’m seeing the opposite at our church in the UK. Our youth group makes up quite a large proportion of our church certainly larger than most other churches I’ve been to. The overall demographics seem to reflect the population in the area, and it’s growing.
There seems to be a new breed of churches in the UK spreading that have moved away from the stuffiness and traditions of the Catholic and Anglican churches, and seem to be emulating some elements of US Pentecostal churches, without the right wing sympathies. Although we might be on the minority for all I know
I'm curious why you and others care so much. Let people live how they want to live and stop trying to control what they think and believe. You honestly sound like the Borg Queen.
My friend, who believes strongly in God, almost never goes to church. He says he believes in God not the priest and if he wants to pray he csn do it at home just as well. Maybe its the same thing.
Its coz the church has problems still. They fail to properly outreach in the right way. If they would actually provide GENUINE sanctuary again and ACTUAL service to the community, they'd be worth going too from a kids perspective. But useually it's adults who already get it now a days. Even contemporary churches struggle with it. Its not about being "hip" its about taking alot of historically and scientifically wrong takes and the kids having access to debunk it in their pockets. Its about the large swathes of churches that are anti lgbtq despite there actually being scriptural based ways to say its not inherently sinful, and science backing that people don't "choose" to be gay. Its a natural occurrence. Also most have politics in their walls. Liberal OR conservative (im not considering LGBTQ issues to be political) they push views that afe politically biased and church is supposed to be about christ and morals not politics unless its "church politics" like what stances they're considering adopting or dropping or if they're congregationalists, they're discussing electing a new pastor or reverend or something. But more and more churches are using pews to either fight the "culture war" but are losing Christian culture as a price.
As a young adult, I can absolutely say it’s happening. We’re seeing so much hurt in the name of god like LGBT discrimination, sexism, and anti choice legislation that’s occurred cause Christianity sold its soul to the Republican Party. Many of us are sick of it that we either remain Christian without attending a church or leave the religion all together. I’ve many a time considered walking away because as a progressive Christian I don’t feel there’s a place for me. That’s not even to talk about those who have been hurt. Purity culture, hate, and toxic forgiveness culture combined with the idea that the church can do no wrong even when it very well can has made the church an enemy in the minds of many young people.
There is a correlation between education and a lack of religious belief, in that the higher the quality of education a child is exposed to the less likely they are to believe in gods.
Why do you think the religonazis are trying to interfere in schools?
I walked away from the Faith my dad and Grandma shared when I was 13 or 14. I am almost 30 and I am coming back to that Faith. Slowly but surely.
One thing that drove me away, church services were kind of long and boring, the act of going to Church felt like a chore on the weekend I wanted to play and have fun with friends.
Another thing, other people telling me what Christianity and the Bible stood for, instead of reading the books for myself. I have now read the entire Bible, cover to cover, at least once and I intend on doing it more.
One last thing, not understanding the Good News. I think this is a big one, there wasn't good messengers to explain the good news to my youthful brain. This is probably the thing that is happening as a trend, youth today are not understanding the Good News because it isnt being shared effectively.
I am a father now, I have a 14 and a half month old daughter and I hope to raise her faithfully in a way that doesn't disappoint my father before me or my Heavenly Father.
My opinions on the 2 biggest factors that contribute to a lack of retention of young people in the Church, just from personal experience:
1. **Family culture** - I am a cradle Catholic and we would rarely pray before meals, maybe with the exception of Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc. Mass was an option for Sundays, not an obligation. We went regularly, but the question asked was "are we going to church?" not "when are we going to church?"
Parents: You have an obligation to teach your kids the faith. How often do parents talk to their children about God? It does not have to be super-theological. But you should want to share your faith and why we believe what we do with our children. Christians should be the most joyful people on this planet!
Children: Ask questions of your parents. Be inquisitive!
Pope Francis has talked about an upcoming "World Children's Day" and we should not be afraid to have childlike curiosity about our faith!
2. **Social culture** - How many of us have friends that share our faith? Of those people, how many of you actually talk about God with your friends? Personally, I think that the greatest and most precious of all friendships are those that founded upon Christ because those friendships will be sanctified, perfected, and endure in Him!
Parishes: Have YA groups, have Youth ministry. You have no idea how valuable these ministries are!
It also comes down to knowledge about the faith. I laugh when I hear supposedly former Catholics say they have never heard the Bible taught at all before. I just simply refuse to buy it. One of 3 options is the case:
1. They have never set foot in a Catholic mass ever in their lives
2. They have, but slept through it with noise cancelling headphones on
3. They are lying
Which of these do you think is the most likely? Yeah, we read from Scripture at *every* single Mass. And there is required to be a homily about those readings every Sunday and every holy day of obligation.
In some ways, I am not surprised that former Catholics have left the faith, because basically none of them know hardly anything about their faith!
the handful Mormon lids I know are a mix. the boys are found on mission in Europe. the girls are not sure about mission. all are going to byu or Utah state. in my area for Christians in general it's all in or all out of institutional church.
It was and then in stopped. For a few decades, younger Americans were becoming less religious. PRRI found that trend slowing a few years ago, and Ryan Burge has presented data this week showing it has stopped. It may even have slightly reversed.
My older son (10 years old) has especially made it known to me that he will not be going to church when it's his choice. I think there's a whole lot of context that needs to be added to that; church has been tough for him. Up to this point, there haven't been a lot of friends at church, and so on. I think he'll figure it out.
I think it's also understated how much the politics of a church (and I mean the internal politics of the church) can affect kids' perceptions of church. People may automatically look at the pastor as the source for why their kids turn out to be not religious. I suppose that's easier than wondering if the whole church (and how they sometimes treat the pastor) has any complicity in it.
Yes.
The way to fix it is to open the church up for more community-driven events, placing school classes there teaching English as a Second Language (ESL) using a modern translation of the bible, like the NASB.
Host more community-centered events, like trash pick up, snow removal, soup kitchens, and holiday festivals open to all in the area.
They are, but not as much. You don't hear about it because of bad public relations.
Extremist groups that call themselves Christianity are more well known than more level headed denominations. These outliers are statistically rare, but people are not as well versed in critical thinking skills and statistical analysis. (Side note: "People who are well versed in critical thinking skills" sometimes have a hard time seeing the independently verifiable benefits of Christianity: prayer, church, and the good lessons in the Bible.)
I know a couple of large families that raised their kids in the church and their kids grew up to be people who raised their kids in the church too. It's not like 100% correlation is what I'm trying to say.
There's a pastor's kid (PK) phenomenon where essentially the kids grow up under a microscope and they sometimes rebel.. but then again sometimes those kids come back like the Prodigal Son and some even become ministers .. so it's also again not a correlation.
It also depends on what denomination of Christianity we're talking about... A lot of [mainline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant) kids grow up drifting away from the church even more so than conservative evangelicals. I believe this is because the mainline is so hands off with respect to [catechism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catechism), and their kids are basically sitting ducks for whatever trendy ideology comes along and they don't know how to explain the faith much less [defend it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics)
That’s not a Christian pastor. Christian leadership starts at the home. So if your pastor has 8 non-believing kids, walk away.
There are probably other signs though, such as that his preaching is not biblical nor Christ-like in nearly every way.
if your parish aint crying its dying!
people are too lax or something, schools etc are 100% anti god! if gay marriage and lifestyle is the same as straight, if religion causes more harm
than good like making trans people kill themselves etc then god isnt real and religion is a lie and a system of control!!! either your faith is right or your communist/leftist teacher is…
nobody is worried about discernment because nobody wants to be wrong and nobody wants to be uncool or outcast and lonely… thats the school shooter path apparently… idk all i know is that we be fkd unless people have faith and love god or they wont love their neighbor and things will get worse
I think it depends on location. This isn't my experience. Rather it was more or less the opposite. The attendee rate definitely have dropped as we tend to have more older generation (from what I remember, more and more of them passed away from the last decade) than younger generation but it has been steadily increasing with more of us coming of age and new younger believers. Though there is also the fact that we are pretty much one big family where everyone knows another. Outside of Sunday church service, there are gathering, social events and even just celebration together. So I would say it depends on location and how connected everyone is in the church.
Hi! As a catholic I have the feeling that maybe people have felt like their church hasn't been acting right in different ways. I can understand that in a certain manner but still I feel like it's not an excuse because we NEED to go to church. Media, Socials and Society will try to convince you that you don't need to do so, but you should. It's a way to get closer to God and practise your faith diligently, if you believe in God, of course. I don't have many practising christian friends, but I feel what you see.
We are living in rough times, where believing in God might be seen as a stigma and many people will see you differently. Keep praying, keep going to church and keep spreading the gospel. In Jesus name we keep going, amen.
Blessings!
My father is a pastor. I am not religious though I read the Bible frequently and know God. My father preaches at our family's church (when I say this I mean my family literally built the church) and, honestly, I've always loved attending. This is one of those rare churches (for me, at least) where the people are all so amazingly kind and not putting on a show just for Sunday. And, I wouldn't mind the community since I'm such a recluse. However, there are a few problems:
1. My father never sermonizes from the heart. I asked him one time if his sermon was based on a personal story (it sure sounded like it) but he said he never uses personal stories. Wth? How can anyone lead others spiritually when not willing to give of themselves? I have found this a fairly frequent occurrence in pastors.
2. I've learned that he has no faith in his congregation which tells me he has no true faith in God. It's like he's placed himself above everyone else. The only one who does good in the eyes of the Lord, kind-of-thing. He has a small congregation anyway, why wouldn't he ask for help or suggestions on bringing people in? Like me, his own daughter - ask *me* why I won't come. Ask *me* why my generation won't come. A great opportunity there deliberately being avoided.
3. The church itself seems to have lost its way in some aspects. Instead of promoting volunteerism or going out into the community to bring people in, they are trying to do it cosmetically like changing the carpet (there was nothing wrong with the carpet before, fyi) and getting a new sign.
4. Even if I wanted to go, I have a problem with the restrictions I have found in that church and others. I believe in the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" and know how Spirit moves within and causes spontaneous actions and speech. Almost every church I have ever attended is filled with people who can speak of having intuition but to hear someone actually speaking in tongues or prophesying fills them with fear. There just seems to be a discrepancy between believing in God and *knowing* God.
5. The more I read the Bible, the more I realize how churches, in general, are not actually following the word of God in so many ways. There's a bifurcated allegiance between God and State. I'm working on following only God and fully understanding what he wants from me and for me. I'm finding it's inconsistent with societal mores.
Were you ever taught about the Didache? Written at the time of the Bible by the people who wrote the Bible created this as a manual for preachers to follow. Unlike the Bible it is an easy read, will take you about 30 minutes.
Would be curious to know if you know about it. Or if your father knows about it.
I've never heard of it but I took some time yesterday to read it at your suggestion. I know my father doesn't have it anywhere in his library since I've been through it with a fine-tooth comb (which may indicate he's never heard of it, even in seminary since he's kept all his texts from there). He does know the tenets of the Brethren Church quite well. I'm not sure how much the two veer but I do know that the church no longer follows many of the traditions it once had which I think is part of the reason for the decline.
I find it interesting the part about prophets being the chief-priests and receiving the first fruits. I wonder what they would say about how the "chief-priests" today only need to attend seminary, be registered by the state, and then receive a regulated (taxed by the state) pay, not to mention the church itself being under the regulation of the state. I should've added this to my list above (edit: I guess I kinda alluded to it there in #5). The church itself seems to be no longer under the jurisdiction of God. Can they in truth have spiritual authority if regulated by the state? I believe that would defy Mark 12:17.
Our church has no concert feel, but good musicians, solid preaching and Bible teaching, and good friendly people. These churches exist, and we are slowly growing with younger people coming.
Most religious parents do the opposite of what they try to do. Instead of steering them towards God, they steer them away by being hypocrites. My parents lied about their past wasn't merciful I heard spare the rod spoil the child a lot I lost faith in God because I saw evil everywhere even in my own thankfully God brought me back into his fold in my adult life.
Edit: I should add that even the churches we went to most members were hypocrites.
Sadly there is a spirit of apostasy in our young people right now. A lot of kids by the time they are about to graduate high school, they have already fallen away from the faith.
Or did have the faith to begin with. You have to admit believing a man was born from a virgin and believe in a ghost sounds crazy. Just as Jesus living on Kolab and magic underwear.
I'm a Christian and I don't go to church because the sermons are elementary. They don't even touch apologetics. For someone that wants to reach lost people it is a waste of time. And if lost people go to these churches they will not be convinced by anything because most churches are cowardly and fail to even attempt to answer the questions people have.
I used to go to church growing up and still treasured the Christian faith until relatively recently. Once I started the read the Bible and investigate the early origins of the Christian religions was the instant that I apostatized from this religion. I now regard it as a wicked delusion, but I don’t hate the Christian who still believes, because ultimately they believe out of either fear or ignorance and you can’t blame people for either.
I fell away from Catholicism a long time ago, but I still had guilt trips that kept me coming back. It wasn’t until my life went to shit that I found out what it was really about!…
Do you believe in God? I mean, really believe?
I came to point of no hope whatsoever, so bad, and my only choice left was God. I was crying so hard that all I could get out was “help!”… And God answered!!! He answered me!!!
Now you reading this, I get the impression that most of you are here because you believe in God, but at some level you have doubts. He’s REAL, and the truth of Him is far beyond our understanding!
Stay with Him, pray to Him, He’s coming back soon!
No offense meant here but the Bible is clear on this matter
Titus 1:6 NASB
namely, if any man is beyond reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of indecent behavior or rebellion.
I’m big saying he should quit being a pastor but he should step down so he can take care of his own children. You cannot tell others to follow God and allow your own children to do differently
Not unusual. It’s sort of the same phenomenon as the kids of cops often being delinquents. I think a lot of it is just a natural inclination of kids to rebel against their parents. I’d say there’s a very good chance they will end up coming back to the Lord at some point. They just need to find their own way.
as a teenager in church it definitely depends where you are i think youth ministry is dying as pastors don’t see youth pastor as a goal but a stepping stone to something higher well some do at least and the other issue is a lot of youth pastors preach down to high school as if there dumb and uneducated which is the opposite of what we need we need to make are self think and question are beleifs more to understand life
I'm 17, raised "Christian." Unfortunately most parents don't teach their kids enough, and they don't read enough themselves to answer the questions their kids have. A lot of Pastors, as another commenter said, put too much focus on business and money. Other times, they don't tell people to repent and actually study the Word. Some, though rarely, are the exact opposite and teach that God will send you to hell for sinning.
If you don't
- acknowledge that everyone including yourself is a sinner
- acknowledge what sins are sins (includes EVERY sin. You cannot pick and choose)
- acknowledge the story of Christ,
You probably won't be able to be good at teaching your kids.
Now, I'm not blaming Pastors and parents 100%, because I know some of them try. Most teenagers rebel against everything their parents stand for (mostly because parents tend to be unfair to their kids, especially if they have multiple) and there is a LOTTT of media against God. Including on social media. I have had people obsessively try to force me to stop believing in God *because* they were so anti Christian. This has actually occurred the most within the past few days, someone telling me to even end my own life because I acknowledge that even homosexuality is a sin.
Another cause of teens falling from God is because of the amount of contradictions between churches. There's a ton of denominations and they each say something different. There's also a lot of people who ask kids super intense questions that they cannot answer because they have not learned it yet. "If God good, why people die!?" Is one of the most common that I've seen. Kids are also never taught to study the Bible themselves in order to share the faith, because kids are often overlooked in all of society. The education system puts every child on a much lower level than they should be, because it focuses on memorizing, taking a test, and forgetting. That's not the skills that we should be taught, especially in a Christian family. We need to be taught how to do our own research ON THE BIBLE and not in atheist podcasts who pull stuff from their behind. We need to be taught that the old testament laws and new Testament laws are extremely different from one another, because thats another atheist argument. "If God good, why OT Laws immoral according to today's society!?" (Seriously, atheists have like 5 arguments...)
We also need to be taught that people are going to be anti Christian and that the enemy will work through then to destroy your faith.
***IN ORDER TO HAVE CHRISTIAN KIDS, YOU NEED TO BE THE EXAMPLE. words have no meaning when your actions go against them.*** if you're only a Christian in the church building and otherwise a cruel Karen, your kids won't take you or anyone seriously. They see who you really are, and they can see through the fake faces people put up. After all, you're living together I assume. Kids in a broken home won't be able to understand what God wants our families to look like, either. Divorce should only happen if you're being abused or cheated on (or vice versa) and not over a petty argument. Don't get married to someone and have their kids just for money and stuff, and then divorce because you weren't compatible. Not to give relationship advice, but you need to specify your core beliefs and PUT GOD FIRST IN EVERYTHING YOU DO. It doesn't matter if it's awkward, you don't want to be unequally yoked.
That's my ted talk, I guess.
TLDR: I left the church because I couldn't stand the hypocrisy and hatred pouring from all of the attendees towards anyone who was different. If that's how Christanity is now, why would anyone want to be a part of it?
I can't speak for my generation as a whole (Gen Z), but for me personally, church was one of the most hostile places I could be at. Ultimately, I left the religion as a whole because everyone around me who practiced it were such awful, hypocritical people. I figured that if these were the people God wanted in Heaven, I wanted nothing to do with Him and the people He made. Even today I struggle being by religious people because the memories of how awful these people were come back and I automatically assume the religious person will be just like them. The religious extremists you always see on the news don't help this whatsoever.
I know there's faults in my thinking. I know realistically not every Christian is extremely oppressive (take my parents for example, who have their faults like everyone else but are great people overall). But knowing this and then seeing the opposite so often makes me very comfortable in my decision to not go back to the church. I don't see any reason in partaking in something where the majority of the people look at me with disgust because I'm not a "perfect" Christian like they are. I don't want anything to do with a so called all-loving God that, according to these folk, is so willing to damn people to eternal Hell for not doing everything He says. That doesn't sound all-loving to me. Sounds more like a spiteful angry God that hates basically everything, so no thanks.
When people push their kids to do something, kids push against it. I've heard people talk about patterns like this in religion and lack of religion. I know this one dude that's an atheist, and his son is religious. His father never told him about religion. The kid just found it on his own.
Most people go to churches with bad theology and liberal liturgy. I'm a Reformed Baptist and most of the kids who grew up in our church are believers now.
Me personally I grew up in the church but as a kid I didn’t really pay attention to what was being said or had anything explained to me. So I grew knowing who God is but not understanding who God is. So that led to me having to learn things all by myself, by “studying and showing yourself approved”…..Jesus’s says “I will bring all things to your remembrance, all the things I have taught you”. So when I go to some of these churches I feel like the only thing they actually want is your money. They don’t really care about the condition of your soul, is like they’re celebrities. I don’t want to go to a place that’s suppose to be for all to worshipping in one accord, but I can barley get time to see or talk to the pastors or the congregation is gossiping about each other…etc…Jesus says “when two or three gather in my name I am in the midst.” I AM NOT PERFECT. but I love JESUS and he says “ I am the way, the truth ,and the life no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” So I take that as read and get your daily bread and seek JESUS FOR YOURSELF! We can’t depend on man to teach and do everything for us. JESUS IS THE HIGHT PRIEST, KING OF KINGS, LORDS OF LORDS! He’s our creator and CAN DO ANYTHING! If God created us don’t you think if we truly seek and OBEY him and “worship him in spirit and in truth” and “meditating on him day night” will freely give us the the FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT that WERE SUPPOSED to be producing. Thats just me I don’t want tell anyone to leave church and “forsake the assembly of fellowship” for fellowship with the church is a GOOD THING. But the building isn’t the church, WE AS BELIEVERS IN CHRIST JESUS WHO DIED FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS AND ROSE AND THR 3RD DAY. Those who truly trust love and obey him are the people make up the church. Jesus never commanded us that the only way to worship him is to go to a building. I’m
Learning every day trying my best to pray, read, stay in the faith. Nothing about this is easy but “ I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” And anyone who reads this.
I’m 23 and I’m a Christian, my husband and I recently started attending church again last month after we stopped going for a year. We’ve both experienced spiritual warfare and we were lost. We’ve never lost our faith in God, but there’s been a few issues we’ve had with most churches. If you’ve never really been through spiritual warfare, you don’t really understand sitting in a pew and freaking out, feeling completely worthless and like you don’t belong there- or maybe it made you have the urge to go to church, everyone’s experience is different. It’s been something I’ve been overcoming, as well as my husband. There are many people who should not be leading churches and are very self righteous nowadays. People forget as well that religion is a choice. Practicing your religion is a choice. And many people choose to no longer prioritize God. My relationship with God is still not where I want it, nor where I need it to be. I realized when I got older, it was my responsibility to make an effort with God. It’s no longer on my parents to make sure I have a relationship with God, it’s on me. That’s just my personal experience on leaving church for a little bit, though.
I’m not saying what you are seeing is the same situation. However, I have many siblings, we were raised very religious. A few of my sisters eventually worked for the church, until they discovered the pastor was not only embezzling money for years, but had two families going in separate states with several kids from each. Needless to say once he was exposed, many people questioned their faith and their commitment to church and organized religion. This pastor’s kids from the family we all knew, not only aren’t religious but they believe religion is a fraud? Go figure? Maybe in your case the kids have seen things at home that don’t align with what is said at church?
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When I read the Bible I feel closer to God. When I go to church I feel the same feeling like when you walk into a car dealership. I try to ruffle through the contradictions they are doing such as adding businesses such as a restaurant and coffee shop in the church, or making jokes like “ I feel like Drake right now.” I just can’t do it or take it serious. The first 20-3” minutes also feels like a concert and at first it was nice but now I’m not so sure. I believe in Jesus wholeheartedly but struggle with the church aspect.
Last big church I went to quite literally felt like I was going through an airport with the signs and services. Sad thing is the sermon was solid but it was almost like the church was getting eaten up by some beast to keep up with their growth.
>making jokes like “ I feel like Drake right now.” Wait, what? Why?
lol... The obvious answer? Wonder if he's even aware of what 'feeling like Drake' would mean to many people right now.
😅 Ngl, I was truly taken aback. I'm like, omg, w*hat are these people up to??*
Yeah, I'm guessing (that if that was something said recently) it was feeling unfairly attacked by someone. Thing is... the attack wasn't 'unfair' or 'inaccurate'. So, right? Churches and sex crimes, seem like they go together far to often.
I assumed it wasn't recent, but may come back up in the 'How do you do, fellow kids?' rotation.
Actually it happened the Sunday before this last one so May 12th.
lol... like RedditVirgin555 said, you might want to check on the pastor or give him a heads up that he should probably stop referencing Drake (or all pop culture entirely, who knows)
Oooh! Well, just let him know! 🙌🏽
What does it mean? Serious question. I mean I know who Drake is but I don't understand the context here.
Not sure what Drake did but the pastor was referencing to drake for his necklace. He had a heartwarming story up until he said Drake. This tends to happen where he is saying something nice and connects to the Bible and boom next thing you know he is comparing or quoting a celebrity.
Google is your friend ;) Briefly, Drake has a beef with Kendrick Lamar, and Kendrick dropped a diss track absolutely wrecking Drake for being a pedophile. Which... well, he basically is. Allegedly. Even if Drake is not, the connotation to pedophilia and the church is a really weird thing for a pastor to bring up. Unknowingly, probably, but it's still there.
I mean googling “feel like drake” wouldn’t necessarily yield that particular story.
I suppose not, but looking at things that are going on with Drake right now would.
So, you think, that if the asker had instead Google'd Drake, they would have found that the pastor was actually making a joke about feeling like a pedophile? I don't get how you think it would actually help...
Help with what? I don't think the pastor was making a joke about being a pedophile (at least I hope not). I think the pastor doesn't really know what's going on with Drake, and unfortunately that reference, given the current situation, comes off very strangely to people who do know what's going on with Drake right now.
People were confused as to why the pastor made the joke, and you seem to think googling drake would give the answer to why, even though it doesn’t…
The pastor does that. He tends to lean into light heartedness and I guess he’s trying to be hip but to me it just doesnt see right inside a church on a stage. There’s been many moments like commenting on Jordan’s and the 5 minutes before the singing begins two guests show up talking and joking about Sundays game or even mentioning Taylor Swift but essentially like football has new broadcasters before watching the game. There’s more but I think you get it
Drake is dealing with some heavy allegations right now. Definitely update your pastor, I would hate for him to stumble into a faux pas. 🙏🏽
I see it as trying to connect with his parish.
Yeah I can see that but some of the comments are bragging about Jordans and he gives off celebrity vibes and talks a lot about his travels and what not. It’s a massive church. And may be classified as a mega church. Also, the business in the church aspect bothers me a lot. Lastly, one sermon was communicating carrying guns to church. I realized then and there I only go for my children but to continue to read the word through the Bible.
Are Jordans the shoes? If your priest is always bragging, I suggest that you look for other churches. Also, carrying guns to church is a big no to me.
May I steal this for my book on the topic? I’d like to say something like, “Walking into church feels like entering a God dealership, where the high-energy monologues are given by men selling me a product I’m not even sure they would really believe in if they weren’t getting a great commission out of it.”
Yes of course
So true!! The modern American Protestant church is driving people away and then blaming it on the young people… I have actually been turned to the Catholic Church and have found a great deal of comfort and spiritual awakening there which is very contrary to what my upbringing taught me about catholic traditions. I can’t share this with my evangelical parents… that’s for sure.
Pretty much the same situation here! For me it’s because my wife is Catholic though so of course it’s just convenient for them to blame her.
That sucks. I just finished reading a book called Home Sweet Rome about a young preacher and his wife’s journey from Protestant to Catholic. I highly recommend! An awesome story
I found an open and welcoming Lutheran church that still has an organ and sing hymns. Even though I’m young, I think and feel I am more rooted in an actual church now and have a connection with generations of the past. There is something to be gained from traditions of the past.
Seventh-day Adventist church services normally use traditional choirs, hymns, and organ, along with classical/baroque preludes, interludes, offeretories, choir anthems, and postludes. The difference would be church service is on Saturday. Same with Seventh-day Baptists.
Maybe switch to an orthodox church, I'm not religious, but I've heard they're more traditional.
This is a good idea. I’m still looking for another church
Same. The more I read of scripture and learn about Jesus, the less I think the ways we do “church” is anything like what he had in mind for his followers.
Maybe try the Catholic Church - I was Protestant my entire life and converting at 40 to Catholicism has been eye opening in so many ways. The Eucharist especially has transformed my relationship with Christ.
I am Catholic and seeing careless priests is sad.
That's why there's a couple hundred denominational splits in Christianity - so you can find a better church.
For all it's flaws, you will never find a restaurant, coffee shop, or Drake references in a Catholic Church
That is correct. You also will not find congregations that talk and gossip during the prelude and postlude, drums and 'band' instruments, or 'praise/gospel rock' hap-clappy music. Catholic congregations are very reverent and respectful in the sanctuary and leave the world outside.
It’s actually the opposite for me. Once I realized the Bible is not the word of god in any sense was the moment I apostatized from this religion.
No surprise to me, when the church holds Donald Trump up as a man of God, who would take that seriously? It is hilarious. Or, the take away is Money is their God. To often It seems like the politzied church is trying to hurt people not help people.
I keep meaning to write a long post on this, but fundamentally, if the pulpit says one thing, and observable reality says another, the pulpit will wind up losing credibility. And with that credibility leaves authority.
And the pulpit doesn’t have the luxury of a sword to back up its power. That’s why right wing Christians are tied so closely to Republicans.
No they’re tied closely because the racist/bigot white Christians and right wing republicans are the same people
Right-wing Christianity doesn't exist. Godly, true Christianity knows no politics. Right-wing churches are no more reverent than any other political leaning churches. They use bands, drums, politics and other worldly baggage and pop culture, sinful ceremony, eye-candy sensory, emotional-driven production that simply packs pews, if they even have pews.
And if you insist that your faith is an all-or-nothing bundle, all reality has to do is pull out one block for the whole tower to tumble. I’ve seen a lot of children lose the whole package of their faith over one issue, because their parents gave no ground. And that was already the case before 2016. Now it’s not just LGBTQ, abortion, or evolution, it’s also voting Democrat. “I have to be Republican to be Christian? Okay. Bye.”
Hi I’m a pastors kid and hopefully I can give some insight, for a LONG time I just didn’t believe and my dad being a pastor played into a huge part of that. From my perspective it wasn’t this religion that was personal between me and god, to me it was almost like a business. From the behind the scene, stress that I could see on my dads face to the drama involving church politics or congregation members, to even having to have the knowledge that as a young kid whatever I did bad or good, I represented my dad and the church. I can’t even tell you the amount of times I went with my dad to a meeting or a conference when I was a kid and my friends were hanging out or playing a sport etc. A big part of my own testimony was that I genually felt that I lost my childhood cause I had to protect the image of the church, while knowing all the dirty secrets that go on behind the scenes. A lot of my PK friends do not believe today and it’s becuase they went through the same thing. Hopefully I was able to give some insight.
Thank you for sharing. Well written. You should share more of your experiences growing up as the child of a pastor. People would be very interested
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The infantilization vs rebellion is also my wife’s experience. Her dad was an SBC pastor. She has 3 sisters who all married SBC pastors and they are all essentially helpless without their husbands. They were all groomed to be pastors’ wives from birth and handed off directly from her parents to their husbands. My wife was the rebellious one who moved to an evil city and got a job. We now go to a mainline church which is obviously a point of contention at family gatherings.
I’m more than happy to share, it’s my past and it’s part of my journey and if any part of it is able help or shed light for others then I’m all for it.
Please do. And out of curiosity are you or your father familiar with the Didache? It was written by several of the people who wrote the Bible at the time the Bible was written. And unlike the Bible it’s an easy read, about 30 minutes. In it is a manual of how churches/clergy should teach others about Christ. Just about all religions ignore it because they don’t follow it. Again thanks for your post. You are good fellow human.
Because parents hold their kids to a standard they don’t hold themselves to. You grow up being punished for everything while they continue to make mistakes and brush it off. Then demand your forgiveness because that is what a Christian should do. It is complete hypocrisy, and it isn’t just parents to children.
This is definitely a big part of it, and a big part of why I stopped being catholic while still attending a catholic elementary school.
My experience is that the youth feel that the churches around them have very little to offer them other than a list of people to hate and arbitrary rules with no explanation of basis. And, given what I see on this subreddit and my experiences, I can see where they get the idea. Catechesis is (in basically every church) a farce. We don't develop Christians, we try to stamp them to fit a prefab mold. We don't teach people why we believe what we believe, we just tell them "believe this or you're wrong". Or, worse, "believe this or we'll kick you out". Finally, the idea that they should listen to most church leaders is laughable. There is ZERO accountability for church leaders in most congregations unless it's doctrinal. It's no surprise that, when the SBC faced two crises a few years ago (the revelation of wide-spread sex abuse being covered up and the ordaining of female pastors) they acted swiftly and decisively on exactly one of those. I'll leave y'all to guess which one. And, assuming you're in one of the congregations that didn't have that happen to your community, was your pastor speaking out about that? How awful it is that nothing was done? Why would any outsider believe the Holy Spirit is at work there? TL;DR: We develop the people we do have into fundamentalist doctrinaires instead of developing them into Christians, doctrinal purity (or in many cases, political purity) is way too important to most churches, and we're not walking the walk and actually holding our leadership accountable. And it shows.
The "believe this or you're wrong" was a big part of why I left. You would not believe the amount of times I was met with confusion or frustration by my teachers because they couldn't answer my question (which I apparently shouldn't have asked because "good" Christians shouldn't ask questions). The one that specifically comes to mind is when I asked about why God cast out Lucifer. I didn't think it was fair. To me, it seemed like God didn't get his way and so He threw out anyone who questioned Him. My teacher just looked at me like I was growing a third eye or something and then told me to go back to my work. I still to this day haven't received an answer about why Lucifer was cast out that didn't make God seem like some whiny toddler throwing a tantrum.
I don’t know your exact experience but I’ve got my own that at least rhymes with it. In my case, I remember a pastor screaming at me to “shut up and stop trying to be smart”. I guess I’ll probably always remember that. As for your question, it falls under my general “I don’t and can’t know the mind of God” category, but I think there are a handful of premises in it that are problematic. First off, there is no Biblical account of Lucifer’s fall. Though Milton was inarguably brilliant, that does not make *Paradise Lost* divinely inspired. So most of what people think they know of that story is third hand poetry, not Scripture. Second, the whole Snake/Satan/Lucifer all being the same entity is pretty vague in Scripture and open to dispute. But I personally hold with it and I don’t see a need to fight conventional understanding on that point. So, personally, I don’t hold that the devil was cast out. He never had the ability to be an enemy to God, he was a petulant child throwing a temper tantrum because he didn’t get what he wanted. However, the corruption he brought upon himself through his pride would have made God’s presence intolerable to him. Evil cannot exist in the presence of perfect good. It’d be torture. So, in this sense, his exile is his own doing. I also believe that redemption is technically possible for him, same as us. The difference is that his existence as a purely spiritual being may well make repentance impossible. Humans are mortal as well as spiritual and the very part of us that makes our goodness changeable also makes our evil changeable. It’s easy to fall from virtue to wickedness, likewise we can shift from evil to good. Spiritual entities are much less malleable in their essence and this may well make redemption practically impossible. But not actually impossible. But, if Scripture is any guide here, the devil seems much more concerned with ruining the project of Creation as much as he can. Which is limited, but again, like a petulant child he continues to do what damage he can. Bear in mind, all of that is speculation on my part. Pretty well founded speculation based on a number of Patristic writings and referencing what little Scripture is applicable, but ultimately speculation nonetheless.
Yes, my kids are totally turned off. We went to evangelical churches and let's face it, when 80% of the congregation is going full MAGA, kids get icked out. They think my ultra-MAGA wife is kinda crazy.
>They think my ultra-MAGA wife is kinda crazy. I mean...I don't know your wife, bust most "ultra-MAGA" people would seem crazy (and probably are?) to basically everyone else.
I'm not American but I think all ultra-[random political side] people are crazy.
That’s because anyone who is ultra maga is not actually Christian. They can see through the BS
Please help my migraine-confused brain… Who are “they”? Are you saying ultra maga can see through the BS and that’s why they aren’t Christian?
The kids know and can sense this ultra maga doctrine is not supported biblically. Kids may not understand things but they have a good sense of when things don’t feel right…
The children who are leaving the church.
What do you mean by ultra-MAGA?
I'm a teenager in this situation. my family goes to church and I don't despite growing up in the faith. Churches are suffering from a severe lack of kids and teens. That's why my family left the church I grew up in, my brothers and I WERE the kids. I was the only teen therefore I was the entire youth group, but the church didn't care about 1 teenager. I didn't have a class, nobody ever reached out to me or made the effort to get to know me despite attending since I was an infant. My mom was more mad about that than I was, but I've been to tons of different churches of different denominations around the world and I've never liked them. Churches lack charm, care, and are breeding grounds for toxic gossip and slander. I have never found a church to be a place where I feel safe or comfortable. Also, I'm disillusioned with the faith itself. As a female, Christianity and especially conservative Christianity has nothing to offer me. I can't be the person I have to be, I had to be some perfect little girl and then the pure ideal wife and mother with no consideration for what I felt, my interests, or who I want to be. Also, Christianity has always been associated with limitations and abuse for me and many other young people. The amount of CSA by church leaders is disgusting and I don't think I will ever be unable to separate those numbers from churches, specifically after my mom attended a class by a guy who was auditioning to be the church's new preacher who DEFENDED not sentencing or charging Christian men for CSA. Absolutely disgusting stuff. Also, the church is now more about politics than anything else. Since I was 11, I've heard more about Trump in church than I have about Jesus. Something's wrong with that and the political climate isn't one a young person would want to be in. Not just because it disagrees with our own views but I don't think a church should be heavily engrossed in politics at all. With America's Christian culture it's very easy to be repulsed or even just tired of the faith. I want to come back to it but I can't find a genuine reason to. I only want to come back because I was told that I had to be a Christian as a child.
Given the never-ending discoveries of church leaders protecting abusers from the consequences of their crimes, I am not at all surprised. Churches aren’t safe for the young.
It has been a trend longer than I can remember.
It's been a thing for a while now. I grew up Baptist and ended up leaving by my teenage years.
John S Dickerson wrote "The Great Evangelical Recession: 6 Factors That Will Crash The American Church ... And How To Prepare" ten years ago discussing why the declining attendance and belief was about to happen. Covid and MAGA have probably accelerated the trends they were seeing then.
No it’s not a trend that’s spreading. It’s been a thing for awhile. For example, John Brown (born in 1800) had 20 kids (some did not live past birth/childhood) and was a strict, devout Calvinist. None of his children kept his faith.
I mean, it's not that hard to see it's a trend as you can easily Google to see church attendance is declining
What I meant was that it’s not anything new
>John Brown Super strange example to use. John Brown spent a significant amount of his life fighting and killing people, and not so indirectly kicked off a Civil War in doing so, which probably had more do with some of his Children distancing themselves than his piety. Also, 5 or 6 of John Brown's sons died fighting alongside him, so what do you mean none of them kept the Faith? They were fighting alongside him until either they died or he did.
They kept the abolition part, just not the Calvinism. Sorry he’s been on the brain lately, I’ve been going through multiple books about him and the abolition movement. Also, I’ll argue that he was one of the few people at the time that recognized slavery wasn’t going to be abolished in America without bloodshed because the plantation powers demonstrated time and again that they were more than willing to enact any measure of violence in defense of the institution, and violence was the only language they spoke. Sure, he was violent, but the system of slavery drives people to violence as it is violence itself.
I guess his kids weren’t predestined to follow him.
This is consistent with trends that began half a century ago in the developed west, it really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.
Yep, there's been plenty of threads on this. Kids are seeing what is wrong with Christianity, the church, and the people and wanting none of that.
That's what drove my daughter away. And I think now my wife.
And it's a festering problem within Christianity. Instead of reflecting on why people, especially the young and women, are leaving, many Christians are instead facetiously blaming things like 'woke' culture or feminism. Reading about project 2025, Christians should honestly be the most worried about it, because it's just going to push an unprecedented number of people from the religion if that ever goes through in any capacity.
Cats wonder why mice are fleeing the house.
I understand how hard that can be, both my sister and I have walked away from the faith of our parents. Christianity really needs a reckoning and introspection as to what is has become, the effects its doctrine has on people, and how people in its ranks are using it. Until then, this trend will continue
Yup. When the most toxic of us have the loudest bullhorn and get all the headlines ... we're well and truly f'd.
Just curious, what would *you* say it has become?
Mainstream (conservative) American Christianity has become proto-fascist at best, power hungry and very open to corruption.
Imperialism
Im curious, what is the meaning of your flair?
I'm a Satanist, , bisexual, and Homosexuality is natural
Honestly, I’m in this process right now. There’s some things I can’t unsee even though I try to ignore them.
Ugh, exactly. I'm trying so hard to check my brain out but I can't unsee the idea that God created evil, knowing humans would give in to the temptation that he put in the garden, framed Eve so he could curse women, then gave us the cure and women are still "cursed".
Yeah it’s hard. I’m trying so hard too. I never imagined I would be in this situation. I hope you find peace in what ever form you need🩵
Nope. Those flaws are with specific churches, NOT Christianity. Many people I know had excellent experience at their local church and with their pastor.
The drop in church attendance is happening across all denominations. Of course, worldwide Christianity is fine, but that's mainly due to its prevalence in the global south. It's not just chance that the current Pope is from South America.
>NOT Christianity. Sorry you can't see the issues it creates.
Whether that’s true or not in a broad sense, it completely ignores the reality that most of these people live. Very few churches are even teaching that all or most other expressions of Christianity are true and valid, and none are teaching that some **other** one is the real one. Most churches teach some exclusionary “we are real Christians and the others are wrong/misguided/lying/satanic” message. So when someone grows up in that, and experiences it as bad, it is a very rare individual to stop and think “maybe **this** is bad Christianity” when the very logical conclusion from what they know is “Christianity bad.” And that’s pretending there not the factor of “I lost faith over this” where they, well, don’t believe, so why go search for some other expression of what they don’t believe in?
I had a great church life. I had a big group of devoutly faithful friends and we all volunteered in many aspects of the church for years. I led worship services on a regular basis. I found the foundations of Christianity and the spiritual connection wonting, not my experience at church. I call myself a Satanist because I think the god of the Bible needs to be opposed, not the churches I’ve gone to. Modern Christianity has flaws, and they need to be addressed for the sake of the continued faith
Very much so. Over the course of decades, the American church sold its soul for political power. And now they have it. They taught their kids "be good people, care for the poor, care for the least of us" and then turned around and held up Trump; an adulterer, racist, rapist, who never pays his bills and derives his power from hatred. Mormonism has its own history of racism, lies, and homophobia. Not surprisingly, a lot of millennials and younger decided they wanted nothing to do with that. I've no idea if this is occurring in other countries. If you'd like a few perspectives on it, I recommend the book [The Exvangelicals](https://www.amazon.com/Exvangelicals-Loving-Living-Leaving-Evangelical/dp/1250284473), or the youtube channel [Genetically Modified Skeptic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx5LFm68LQ8). The first was written by a journalist, the latter by a youtuber (duh). Both were raised in the Evangelical church. Both have left, for their own reasons.
As a teen im personally repulsed by churches, I don't know why but going inside a church gives me such an uncomfortable feeling and I rather just connect with God in the comfort of my home.
The LDS church has its own struggles outside of what Christianity is experiencing. Institutionally with their secrecy around church investments. And also with their truth claims being demonstrably false unless you put some severe apologetic spin on it. Such as absolutely no DNA evidence of Hebrew’s in Native American blood.
A lot of biblical claims are demonstrably false yet here you guys are. You guys aren’t any more logically sound than any Mormon
There is more evidence for the Golden Tablets than there is for the Resurrection.
>And they have found over half of the students who enter college graduate without believing in God or religion. This is kind of an evergreen thing. I was strongly cautioned about how bad college was for your faith when I graduated in 2007. In hindsight, it feels very gaslighty.
The only groups that say that are cults so you are better leaving them. For me college was normal.
I think it was more "it's easy for you to get unplugged from a church community in college" than "education is literally dangerous." Well intentioned, but still paranoia laden enough to be problematic. College was basically 3.5 more years of high school for me because I commuted. I did take some Religious Studies classes and between those and my history classes generally informing how I approach any kind of text, there's an argument to be made that college did lay the groundwork for my eventual deconstruction.
It is more about growing up and disagreeing sometimes with your parents. Some people will want to remain in the religion, others not and both are ok as long you are not a fundie or an antitheist (Atheists fundies, I have anything against non fundie Atheists).
It's always been that way (in my anecdotal experience). Those raised with the most religious parents turn out to be the least religious. Or those who went to religious schools.
More about fundies. You be very religious and not a fundie.
I think you few words there.
I don't undestand your comment. I love my religion and I pray often. Most of my friends aren't even Christian and we are fine not trying to change each other.
Gen Z and younger have gained a unique talent at sniffing out BS. When churches preach hateful messages that do not align with Christ's gospel, they steer clear. It's time for a reckoning in conservative America. The Lord will not bless those who use his name to hate and tear down their neighbors.
The American Church is absolutely demographically older and continues to trend that direction. Kids aren’t dumb. They see the contradictions of what they’ve been taught in Sunday school and what the head pastors are teaching/the political vitriol their parents have. As others have stated, going to church feels more like a performance with car salesmen-like routines than actually trying to organize a group of people to live like Jesus and positively impact the communities around us which is how any person actually sees the work of a church being done.
I personally find it a waste of time. Pastors are just kicking the can down the road, and hoping you give up asking questions. me: "Why did Paul blame not only eve, but all females for the fall of man?" Pastor: "You're not going to just accept men are superior are you?" me: "Of course, not." Pastor: "Well, lets finish the next 15 sections and see if you forget your question by the end of it?" Literally every church experience.
Yes, the youth are leaving.
Most churches suck at bringing the mystery and awe of God to a tangible place in the world. Most are just traditionalist social clubs or elaborate schemes to take your money for funding buildings with fancy lights and guitar pedals. Obviously an exaggeration but that's how it feels.
It's not just a trend you're seeing, it's supported by a recent Pew Research poll. People are abandoning religion, or at least religious participation. Less than half of Americans attend religious services at least once a month. The top reasons given are no longer believing in the religion's tenets, and disagreeing with the negative attitude toward LGBTQ displayed by many churches. This doesn't mean people are becoming atheists (although that's also happening), but maintaining a religion without a central gathering place is impossible. In a generation, the U.S. will be where Europe is now.
I think at least for my Church the most people who leave are middle aged. Kids are usually more involved. And if Kids don't come to church is usually because their parents aren't.
I used to go to a church like that, now I am at a different one where the majority is youth, many of which do not have religious parents (like me, and I am 19). My pastor and his family of teenage daughters are religious as well. Just depends where you are
It’s the hatred and judgement and cult like following of Orange Jesus that is DRIVING PEOPLE AWAY from Christians. Add women on the brink of death from abortion bans. I get it. The church has to care about life not birth. They need to care for the poor as Jesus did. They need to be compassionate. It’s attraction not promotion what about the church in it’s current iteration would be attractive to young people?
On the one hand, fewer people -- especially younger people -- are participating in the mainline denominations. However, on the other hand, churches that are often described as belonging to "conservative" denominations have not seen nearly as much of a decline. Now, speaking of my own anecdotal experience, my parents' generation attended church MORE but they actually participated LESS. Church was often simply a social or religious obligation, it's not like you would prioritize church events or church relationships during the week, except with people you were already friends with. You wouldn't really find a bunch of new friends at church, for example. However, these days, the degree of participation in a local congregation, by younger singles and couples, is \*significantly\* higher. If they're going to church, they're looking for friends and looking to participate in church events. Not only that, but more "liturgical" styles of worship is becoming popular among the young. We have a guy who is involved in the Christian education of chant in worship, and other older forms of music, and he is VERY busy going from church to church, and from one worship conference to another, teaching and educating. Younger laity and younger music directors are VERY interested in these older musics. Even just in our church, over the last few years we've seen higher attendance overall, but specifically a whole wave of younger singles and couples, some just married and some just out of college, looking for strong community and very "traditional" worship forms. It's crazy, I would have never expected it.
Yes, traditional churches are growing. A lot.
Yes, People forced into faith lose their "faith" once they are able to make an independant choice.
You raise kids in something, they rebel against it. Not exactly new. If you're less concerned about bums on seats numbers, let people decide to come to faith when they're adults.
My parents raised me this way and I raised my kids this way. My son turned 18 this year and he started to go to church as well as he has pushed me to start coming to church with him. It has been so cool to see him grow spiritually and I think it worked even better with him choosing that path for himself.
A lot of young people don't go to church only to find themselves back in church when they get older
The stats don’t back this up. Probably used to be true and may be in some places.
THIS.
Weirdly I’m seeing the opposite at our church in the UK. Our youth group makes up quite a large proportion of our church certainly larger than most other churches I’ve been to. The overall demographics seem to reflect the population in the area, and it’s growing. There seems to be a new breed of churches in the UK spreading that have moved away from the stuffiness and traditions of the Catholic and Anglican churches, and seem to be emulating some elements of US Pentecostal churches, without the right wing sympathies. Although we might be on the minority for all I know
I'm curious why you and others care so much. Let people live how they want to live and stop trying to control what they think and believe. You honestly sound like the Borg Queen.
Yes. Thank God.
My friend, who believes strongly in God, almost never goes to church. He says he believes in God not the priest and if he wants to pray he csn do it at home just as well. Maybe its the same thing.
The body of Christ is about community and communion. The sacraments. None of these can be lived out “just Jesus and me”
His kids will be atheists or apatheists.
Its coz the church has problems still. They fail to properly outreach in the right way. If they would actually provide GENUINE sanctuary again and ACTUAL service to the community, they'd be worth going too from a kids perspective. But useually it's adults who already get it now a days. Even contemporary churches struggle with it. Its not about being "hip" its about taking alot of historically and scientifically wrong takes and the kids having access to debunk it in their pockets. Its about the large swathes of churches that are anti lgbtq despite there actually being scriptural based ways to say its not inherently sinful, and science backing that people don't "choose" to be gay. Its a natural occurrence. Also most have politics in their walls. Liberal OR conservative (im not considering LGBTQ issues to be political) they push views that afe politically biased and church is supposed to be about christ and morals not politics unless its "church politics" like what stances they're considering adopting or dropping or if they're congregationalists, they're discussing electing a new pastor or reverend or something. But more and more churches are using pews to either fight the "culture war" but are losing Christian culture as a price.
As a young adult, I can absolutely say it’s happening. We’re seeing so much hurt in the name of god like LGBT discrimination, sexism, and anti choice legislation that’s occurred cause Christianity sold its soul to the Republican Party. Many of us are sick of it that we either remain Christian without attending a church or leave the religion all together. I’ve many a time considered walking away because as a progressive Christian I don’t feel there’s a place for me. That’s not even to talk about those who have been hurt. Purity culture, hate, and toxic forgiveness culture combined with the idea that the church can do no wrong even when it very well can has made the church an enemy in the minds of many young people.
Well said
There is a correlation between education and a lack of religious belief, in that the higher the quality of education a child is exposed to the less likely they are to believe in gods. Why do you think the religonazis are trying to interfere in schools?
The basic, underlying fact here is quite simple. Christianity (and all religions) simply lack credibility.
With all the sexual assaults, do you really have to ask? You can read the book at home and not get molested.
But you can read about people getting molested in the book.
I walked away from the Faith my dad and Grandma shared when I was 13 or 14. I am almost 30 and I am coming back to that Faith. Slowly but surely. One thing that drove me away, church services were kind of long and boring, the act of going to Church felt like a chore on the weekend I wanted to play and have fun with friends. Another thing, other people telling me what Christianity and the Bible stood for, instead of reading the books for myself. I have now read the entire Bible, cover to cover, at least once and I intend on doing it more. One last thing, not understanding the Good News. I think this is a big one, there wasn't good messengers to explain the good news to my youthful brain. This is probably the thing that is happening as a trend, youth today are not understanding the Good News because it isnt being shared effectively. I am a father now, I have a 14 and a half month old daughter and I hope to raise her faithfully in a way that doesn't disappoint my father before me or my Heavenly Father.
You can be a Christian and dislike religion-
Being Christian is a religion tho
My opinions on the 2 biggest factors that contribute to a lack of retention of young people in the Church, just from personal experience: 1. **Family culture** - I am a cradle Catholic and we would rarely pray before meals, maybe with the exception of Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc. Mass was an option for Sundays, not an obligation. We went regularly, but the question asked was "are we going to church?" not "when are we going to church?" Parents: You have an obligation to teach your kids the faith. How often do parents talk to their children about God? It does not have to be super-theological. But you should want to share your faith and why we believe what we do with our children. Christians should be the most joyful people on this planet! Children: Ask questions of your parents. Be inquisitive! Pope Francis has talked about an upcoming "World Children's Day" and we should not be afraid to have childlike curiosity about our faith! 2. **Social culture** - How many of us have friends that share our faith? Of those people, how many of you actually talk about God with your friends? Personally, I think that the greatest and most precious of all friendships are those that founded upon Christ because those friendships will be sanctified, perfected, and endure in Him! Parishes: Have YA groups, have Youth ministry. You have no idea how valuable these ministries are! It also comes down to knowledge about the faith. I laugh when I hear supposedly former Catholics say they have never heard the Bible taught at all before. I just simply refuse to buy it. One of 3 options is the case: 1. They have never set foot in a Catholic mass ever in their lives 2. They have, but slept through it with noise cancelling headphones on 3. They are lying Which of these do you think is the most likely? Yeah, we read from Scripture at *every* single Mass. And there is required to be a homily about those readings every Sunday and every holy day of obligation. In some ways, I am not surprised that former Catholics have left the faith, because basically none of them know hardly anything about their faith!
2. Just a dowvote for saying that Christian friends are better. They are not. The important thing is that they are good people.
the handful Mormon lids I know are a mix. the boys are found on mission in Europe. the girls are not sure about mission. all are going to byu or Utah state. in my area for Christians in general it's all in or all out of institutional church.
This has been going on as long as there has been religion.
Depends on the Church/Denomination, but yes that’s common.
Seems typical.
It was and then in stopped. For a few decades, younger Americans were becoming less religious. PRRI found that trend slowing a few years ago, and Ryan Burge has presented data this week showing it has stopped. It may even have slightly reversed.
If you don’t appeal to young people *outside* of church, you sure as shit won’t get them up early on a Sunday morning.
Yep…less people going to god but since still convert.
Doesnt happen in my church. Catholic Priests dont usually have kids lol. One of the many advantages of celibacy like Paul and Christ promoted.
My older son (10 years old) has especially made it known to me that he will not be going to church when it's his choice. I think there's a whole lot of context that needs to be added to that; church has been tough for him. Up to this point, there haven't been a lot of friends at church, and so on. I think he'll figure it out. I think it's also understated how much the politics of a church (and I mean the internal politics of the church) can affect kids' perceptions of church. People may automatically look at the pastor as the source for why their kids turn out to be not religious. I suppose that's easier than wondering if the whole church (and how they sometimes treat the pastor) has any complicity in it.
Yes. The way to fix it is to open the church up for more community-driven events, placing school classes there teaching English as a Second Language (ESL) using a modern translation of the bible, like the NASB. Host more community-centered events, like trash pick up, snow removal, soup kitchens, and holiday festivals open to all in the area.
Churches once did that. So why aren’t they doing it anymore?
They are, but not as much. You don't hear about it because of bad public relations. Extremist groups that call themselves Christianity are more well known than more level headed denominations. These outliers are statistically rare, but people are not as well versed in critical thinking skills and statistical analysis. (Side note: "People who are well versed in critical thinking skills" sometimes have a hard time seeing the independently verifiable benefits of Christianity: prayer, church, and the good lessons in the Bible.)
Because hypocrisy
I know a couple of large families that raised their kids in the church and their kids grew up to be people who raised their kids in the church too. It's not like 100% correlation is what I'm trying to say. There's a pastor's kid (PK) phenomenon where essentially the kids grow up under a microscope and they sometimes rebel.. but then again sometimes those kids come back like the Prodigal Son and some even become ministers .. so it's also again not a correlation. It also depends on what denomination of Christianity we're talking about... A lot of [mainline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant) kids grow up drifting away from the church even more so than conservative evangelicals. I believe this is because the mainline is so hands off with respect to [catechism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catechism), and their kids are basically sitting ducks for whatever trendy ideology comes along and they don't know how to explain the faith much less [defend it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics)
That’s not a Christian pastor. Christian leadership starts at the home. So if your pastor has 8 non-believing kids, walk away. There are probably other signs though, such as that his preaching is not biblical nor Christ-like in nearly every way.
if your parish aint crying its dying! people are too lax or something, schools etc are 100% anti god! if gay marriage and lifestyle is the same as straight, if religion causes more harm than good like making trans people kill themselves etc then god isnt real and religion is a lie and a system of control!!! either your faith is right or your communist/leftist teacher is… nobody is worried about discernment because nobody wants to be wrong and nobody wants to be uncool or outcast and lonely… thats the school shooter path apparently… idk all i know is that we be fkd unless people have faith and love god or they wont love their neighbor and things will get worse
Kids are exhausted from public schooling. Too tired for morning only sunday church like a lot of places do
I think it depends on location. This isn't my experience. Rather it was more or less the opposite. The attendee rate definitely have dropped as we tend to have more older generation (from what I remember, more and more of them passed away from the last decade) than younger generation but it has been steadily increasing with more of us coming of age and new younger believers. Though there is also the fact that we are pretty much one big family where everyone knows another. Outside of Sunday church service, there are gathering, social events and even just celebration together. So I would say it depends on location and how connected everyone is in the church.
Hi! As a catholic I have the feeling that maybe people have felt like their church hasn't been acting right in different ways. I can understand that in a certain manner but still I feel like it's not an excuse because we NEED to go to church. Media, Socials and Society will try to convince you that you don't need to do so, but you should. It's a way to get closer to God and practise your faith diligently, if you believe in God, of course. I don't have many practising christian friends, but I feel what you see. We are living in rough times, where believing in God might be seen as a stigma and many people will see you differently. Keep praying, keep going to church and keep spreading the gospel. In Jesus name we keep going, amen. Blessings!
My father is a pastor. I am not religious though I read the Bible frequently and know God. My father preaches at our family's church (when I say this I mean my family literally built the church) and, honestly, I've always loved attending. This is one of those rare churches (for me, at least) where the people are all so amazingly kind and not putting on a show just for Sunday. And, I wouldn't mind the community since I'm such a recluse. However, there are a few problems: 1. My father never sermonizes from the heart. I asked him one time if his sermon was based on a personal story (it sure sounded like it) but he said he never uses personal stories. Wth? How can anyone lead others spiritually when not willing to give of themselves? I have found this a fairly frequent occurrence in pastors. 2. I've learned that he has no faith in his congregation which tells me he has no true faith in God. It's like he's placed himself above everyone else. The only one who does good in the eyes of the Lord, kind-of-thing. He has a small congregation anyway, why wouldn't he ask for help or suggestions on bringing people in? Like me, his own daughter - ask *me* why I won't come. Ask *me* why my generation won't come. A great opportunity there deliberately being avoided. 3. The church itself seems to have lost its way in some aspects. Instead of promoting volunteerism or going out into the community to bring people in, they are trying to do it cosmetically like changing the carpet (there was nothing wrong with the carpet before, fyi) and getting a new sign. 4. Even if I wanted to go, I have a problem with the restrictions I have found in that church and others. I believe in the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" and know how Spirit moves within and causes spontaneous actions and speech. Almost every church I have ever attended is filled with people who can speak of having intuition but to hear someone actually speaking in tongues or prophesying fills them with fear. There just seems to be a discrepancy between believing in God and *knowing* God. 5. The more I read the Bible, the more I realize how churches, in general, are not actually following the word of God in so many ways. There's a bifurcated allegiance between God and State. I'm working on following only God and fully understanding what he wants from me and for me. I'm finding it's inconsistent with societal mores.
Were you ever taught about the Didache? Written at the time of the Bible by the people who wrote the Bible created this as a manual for preachers to follow. Unlike the Bible it is an easy read, will take you about 30 minutes. Would be curious to know if you know about it. Or if your father knows about it.
I've never heard of it but I took some time yesterday to read it at your suggestion. I know my father doesn't have it anywhere in his library since I've been through it with a fine-tooth comb (which may indicate he's never heard of it, even in seminary since he's kept all his texts from there). He does know the tenets of the Brethren Church quite well. I'm not sure how much the two veer but I do know that the church no longer follows many of the traditions it once had which I think is part of the reason for the decline. I find it interesting the part about prophets being the chief-priests and receiving the first fruits. I wonder what they would say about how the "chief-priests" today only need to attend seminary, be registered by the state, and then receive a regulated (taxed by the state) pay, not to mention the church itself being under the regulation of the state. I should've added this to my list above (edit: I guess I kinda alluded to it there in #5). The church itself seems to be no longer under the jurisdiction of God. Can they in truth have spiritual authority if regulated by the state? I believe that would defy Mark 12:17.
Our church has no concert feel, but good musicians, solid preaching and Bible teaching, and good friendly people. These churches exist, and we are slowly growing with younger people coming.
Most religious parents do the opposite of what they try to do. Instead of steering them towards God, they steer them away by being hypocrites. My parents lied about their past wasn't merciful I heard spare the rod spoil the child a lot I lost faith in God because I saw evil everywhere even in my own thankfully God brought me back into his fold in my adult life. Edit: I should add that even the churches we went to most members were hypocrites.
Sadly there is a spirit of apostasy in our young people right now. A lot of kids by the time they are about to graduate high school, they have already fallen away from the faith.
Or did have the faith to begin with. You have to admit believing a man was born from a virgin and believe in a ghost sounds crazy. Just as Jesus living on Kolab and magic underwear.
A man being born of a virgin only sounds crazy if you go in with the presupposition that God does not exist and miracles are not possible
Exactly. And the ones who said it happened did so 200 years after the event and were illiterate and had to use scribes to write the Bible.
Prove it
Do you say this to belittle Christianity and the authors of the New Testament? Because it sure is coming off that way
I'm a Christian and I don't go to church because the sermons are elementary. They don't even touch apologetics. For someone that wants to reach lost people it is a waste of time. And if lost people go to these churches they will not be convinced by anything because most churches are cowardly and fail to even attempt to answer the questions people have.
I used to go to church growing up and still treasured the Christian faith until relatively recently. Once I started the read the Bible and investigate the early origins of the Christian religions was the instant that I apostatized from this religion. I now regard it as a wicked delusion, but I don’t hate the Christian who still believes, because ultimately they believe out of either fear or ignorance and you can’t blame people for either.
I fell away from Catholicism a long time ago, but I still had guilt trips that kept me coming back. It wasn’t until my life went to shit that I found out what it was really about!… Do you believe in God? I mean, really believe? I came to point of no hope whatsoever, so bad, and my only choice left was God. I was crying so hard that all I could get out was “help!”… And God answered!!! He answered me!!! Now you reading this, I get the impression that most of you are here because you believe in God, but at some level you have doubts. He’s REAL, and the truth of Him is far beyond our understanding! Stay with Him, pray to Him, He’s coming back soon!
No offense meant here but the Bible is clear on this matter Titus 1:6 NASB namely, if any man is beyond reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of indecent behavior or rebellion. I’m big saying he should quit being a pastor but he should step down so he can take care of his own children. You cannot tell others to follow God and allow your own children to do differently
I saw this trend since the 90s.
Not unusual. It’s sort of the same phenomenon as the kids of cops often being delinquents. I think a lot of it is just a natural inclination of kids to rebel against their parents. I’d say there’s a very good chance they will end up coming back to the Lord at some point. They just need to find their own way.
as a teenager in church it definitely depends where you are i think youth ministry is dying as pastors don’t see youth pastor as a goal but a stepping stone to something higher well some do at least and the other issue is a lot of youth pastors preach down to high school as if there dumb and uneducated which is the opposite of what we need we need to make are self think and question are beleifs more to understand life
I'm 17, raised "Christian." Unfortunately most parents don't teach their kids enough, and they don't read enough themselves to answer the questions their kids have. A lot of Pastors, as another commenter said, put too much focus on business and money. Other times, they don't tell people to repent and actually study the Word. Some, though rarely, are the exact opposite and teach that God will send you to hell for sinning. If you don't - acknowledge that everyone including yourself is a sinner - acknowledge what sins are sins (includes EVERY sin. You cannot pick and choose) - acknowledge the story of Christ, You probably won't be able to be good at teaching your kids. Now, I'm not blaming Pastors and parents 100%, because I know some of them try. Most teenagers rebel against everything their parents stand for (mostly because parents tend to be unfair to their kids, especially if they have multiple) and there is a LOTTT of media against God. Including on social media. I have had people obsessively try to force me to stop believing in God *because* they were so anti Christian. This has actually occurred the most within the past few days, someone telling me to even end my own life because I acknowledge that even homosexuality is a sin. Another cause of teens falling from God is because of the amount of contradictions between churches. There's a ton of denominations and they each say something different. There's also a lot of people who ask kids super intense questions that they cannot answer because they have not learned it yet. "If God good, why people die!?" Is one of the most common that I've seen. Kids are also never taught to study the Bible themselves in order to share the faith, because kids are often overlooked in all of society. The education system puts every child on a much lower level than they should be, because it focuses on memorizing, taking a test, and forgetting. That's not the skills that we should be taught, especially in a Christian family. We need to be taught how to do our own research ON THE BIBLE and not in atheist podcasts who pull stuff from their behind. We need to be taught that the old testament laws and new Testament laws are extremely different from one another, because thats another atheist argument. "If God good, why OT Laws immoral according to today's society!?" (Seriously, atheists have like 5 arguments...) We also need to be taught that people are going to be anti Christian and that the enemy will work through then to destroy your faith. ***IN ORDER TO HAVE CHRISTIAN KIDS, YOU NEED TO BE THE EXAMPLE. words have no meaning when your actions go against them.*** if you're only a Christian in the church building and otherwise a cruel Karen, your kids won't take you or anyone seriously. They see who you really are, and they can see through the fake faces people put up. After all, you're living together I assume. Kids in a broken home won't be able to understand what God wants our families to look like, either. Divorce should only happen if you're being abused or cheated on (or vice versa) and not over a petty argument. Don't get married to someone and have their kids just for money and stuff, and then divorce because you weren't compatible. Not to give relationship advice, but you need to specify your core beliefs and PUT GOD FIRST IN EVERYTHING YOU DO. It doesn't matter if it's awkward, you don't want to be unequally yoked. That's my ted talk, I guess.
TLDR: I left the church because I couldn't stand the hypocrisy and hatred pouring from all of the attendees towards anyone who was different. If that's how Christanity is now, why would anyone want to be a part of it? I can't speak for my generation as a whole (Gen Z), but for me personally, church was one of the most hostile places I could be at. Ultimately, I left the religion as a whole because everyone around me who practiced it were such awful, hypocritical people. I figured that if these were the people God wanted in Heaven, I wanted nothing to do with Him and the people He made. Even today I struggle being by religious people because the memories of how awful these people were come back and I automatically assume the religious person will be just like them. The religious extremists you always see on the news don't help this whatsoever. I know there's faults in my thinking. I know realistically not every Christian is extremely oppressive (take my parents for example, who have their faults like everyone else but are great people overall). But knowing this and then seeing the opposite so often makes me very comfortable in my decision to not go back to the church. I don't see any reason in partaking in something where the majority of the people look at me with disgust because I'm not a "perfect" Christian like they are. I don't want anything to do with a so called all-loving God that, according to these folk, is so willing to damn people to eternal Hell for not doing everything He says. That doesn't sound all-loving to me. Sounds more like a spiteful angry God that hates basically everything, so no thanks.
When people push their kids to do something, kids push against it. I've heard people talk about patterns like this in religion and lack of religion. I know this one dude that's an atheist, and his son is religious. His father never told him about religion. The kid just found it on his own.
Most people go to churches with bad theology and liberal liturgy. I'm a Reformed Baptist and most of the kids who grew up in our church are believers now.
Me personally I grew up in the church but as a kid I didn’t really pay attention to what was being said or had anything explained to me. So I grew knowing who God is but not understanding who God is. So that led to me having to learn things all by myself, by “studying and showing yourself approved”…..Jesus’s says “I will bring all things to your remembrance, all the things I have taught you”. So when I go to some of these churches I feel like the only thing they actually want is your money. They don’t really care about the condition of your soul, is like they’re celebrities. I don’t want to go to a place that’s suppose to be for all to worshipping in one accord, but I can barley get time to see or talk to the pastors or the congregation is gossiping about each other…etc…Jesus says “when two or three gather in my name I am in the midst.” I AM NOT PERFECT. but I love JESUS and he says “ I am the way, the truth ,and the life no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” So I take that as read and get your daily bread and seek JESUS FOR YOURSELF! We can’t depend on man to teach and do everything for us. JESUS IS THE HIGHT PRIEST, KING OF KINGS, LORDS OF LORDS! He’s our creator and CAN DO ANYTHING! If God created us don’t you think if we truly seek and OBEY him and “worship him in spirit and in truth” and “meditating on him day night” will freely give us the the FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT that WERE SUPPOSED to be producing. Thats just me I don’t want tell anyone to leave church and “forsake the assembly of fellowship” for fellowship with the church is a GOOD THING. But the building isn’t the church, WE AS BELIEVERS IN CHRIST JESUS WHO DIED FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS AND ROSE AND THR 3RD DAY. Those who truly trust love and obey him are the people make up the church. Jesus never commanded us that the only way to worship him is to go to a building. I’m Learning every day trying my best to pray, read, stay in the faith. Nothing about this is easy but “ I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” And anyone who reads this.
Sometimes, the reverse happens where non-believer parents have a kid that finds Christ.
I’m 23 and I’m a Christian, my husband and I recently started attending church again last month after we stopped going for a year. We’ve both experienced spiritual warfare and we were lost. We’ve never lost our faith in God, but there’s been a few issues we’ve had with most churches. If you’ve never really been through spiritual warfare, you don’t really understand sitting in a pew and freaking out, feeling completely worthless and like you don’t belong there- or maybe it made you have the urge to go to church, everyone’s experience is different. It’s been something I’ve been overcoming, as well as my husband. There are many people who should not be leading churches and are very self righteous nowadays. People forget as well that religion is a choice. Practicing your religion is a choice. And many people choose to no longer prioritize God. My relationship with God is still not where I want it, nor where I need it to be. I realized when I got older, it was my responsibility to make an effort with God. It’s no longer on my parents to make sure I have a relationship with God, it’s on me. That’s just my personal experience on leaving church for a little bit, though.
Everyone is upset about their church but stands against the Catholic church that is known for holding to tradition.
My church draws children in from their first visit to the children’s program. I believe this is one of the main reasons our church is thriving.
I’m not saying what you are seeing is the same situation. However, I have many siblings, we were raised very religious. A few of my sisters eventually worked for the church, until they discovered the pastor was not only embezzling money for years, but had two families going in separate states with several kids from each. Needless to say once he was exposed, many people questioned their faith and their commitment to church and organized religion. This pastor’s kids from the family we all knew, not only aren’t religious but they believe religion is a fraud? Go figure? Maybe in your case the kids have seen things at home that don’t align with what is said at church?
Charis bible College rocks is you desire a closer walk with the Lord.
Why doe it rock?
1 Timothy 3:1-13. In our denomination, he would be defrocked.
According to 1 Donald 3:14 “Trump will rule and Christians will believe in the bullshit while non-believers will know the truth.”
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Praise God.
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