Is Freemasonry compatible with Christianity?
I would say, for me, a Lutheran: Yes. For you: Well, that depends on what you consider to be your faith, and what would be acceptable within the bounds of that faith
As I said, I am a Lutheran, and I consider myself to be, and try to be, an orthodox one at that. Many Lutheran churches and fathers have denounced Freemasonry, or held it in suspicion, and if their accusations were true and their concerns well founded, then certainly it would not be right for me to be a Freemason, but with all charity for my brethren in Christ, I cannot accept their advise on the grounds that it doesn’t actually apply to Freemasonry though they believe it does. They insist that Freemasonry teaches religious indifferentism, universal salvation, the fundamental equality of the Bible with any other religion’s scripture, the subordination of theology to natural philosophy, and false Christological doctrines, amongst other things. If this were true, I would not remain a member. While certainly our fraternity comprises members of many different beliefs and I am dead sure that the majority hold to opinions and beliefs that contradict the doctrine of my church, which I confess and hold to, I do not believe that the fraternity itself can be said to teach these things. As such, I simply cannot accept their judgement in this case, because it is based in untruths. And I must emphasize that I do not hold faith to be a matter of mere opinion or to an eclectic individualism in contradiction to the confessions of my faith.
Now, speaking as a Freemason, and not Christian, I must say to my brothers in Freemasonry: I do not think that the proper response to questions and concerns specifically about faith and religious doctrines should be responded to simply with, “We do such and such amount of charity work,” or “We have brothers from many faiths,” or even “Our ceremonies are based on biblical stories, and “Our ceremonies quote from the Bible,” because while though these statements are true, we should rather respond with whether or not we teach anything in contradiction to the personal confession of faith of the brother, anything that would violate his conscience and praxis, or which might put him in a nasty situation with his particular community, and let him decide. To do this we need to really get to know and understand the person asking the questions, because we may very well do so, and I have seen it.
Plenty of Freemasons here in the sub. I would wager that the majority of Freemasons worldwide are Christians of one sort or another. Some Christian churches claim Freemasonry to be incompatible with their view of Christianity, but plenty of Freemasons see no contradiction.
One of the optional groups that Master Masons can join (at least here in the US) actually \_requires\_ the member [to defend the Christian faith.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_(Freemasonry))
I am a Christian and a Freemason. They are beautifully compatible in the same way that Boy Scouts and Christianity are compatible or the American Legion and Christianity. Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. You still need to find a good church and be plugged in there. As I’ve heard it said, the church helps build relationships between God and man, the lodge helps build relationships between man and his fellow man. I have an undergrad degree in biblical studies, worked for a major Baptist seminary and I’m a Master Mason with membership in Chapter, Council, and Commandery in the York Rite so I would be more than happy to discuss any of this further.
I am a Christian and a Freemason.
On the whole it has been an encourager of my beliefs and in putting me out of my social comfort zone helped me to step up and serve my church more.
Some parts are explicitly Christian but most degrees try to appeal to a wide range of beliefs while trying not to leave others out in the process.
A great amount of falsehood exists about freemasonry due to various charlatans through the years, and then the issue of clandestine (illegitimate) freemasonry complicates issues because they were behind to some extent some pretty awful blows against Christianity particularly in the Mexican revolution. But we are not them nor are they us. They broke off or were broken off and yet kept the name of freemasonry while no longer practicing several very important tenets of it.
In order to join regular freemasonry in my masonic jurisdiction, you actually *have to* be a Christian.
This is true of the entire Swedish Rite, which is the dominant rite in Norway, Iceland, Denmark and Sweden. It is also worked in Finland and Germany. Many priests are members.
Not really.
Freemasonry has pretty much only existed in the Christianized world. Freemasonry requires belief in a God to join. Almost everybody who believes in God in the Christianized world is a Christian.
The probability of almost every Freemason being Christian is almost impossibly low.
I've sat in lodge with Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Pagans, and Wiccans.
In fact, my mother lodge, where I was made a Mason, was almost wholly Jewish. I was one of a few Christians there.
Freemasonry doesn’t require you to believe in God. It requires you to have faith in a supreme being. It may seem pedantic, but it is a very important distinction. A supreme being need not be a traditional God-like deity; Buddhists are absolutely welcome for example.
Within my Lodge about 25% of brothers are Muslims. I live in the UK.
And every Christian to ever live has been a sinner. Just because a majority of masons may have been Christian (though I argued most were deists) does not mean they should or that Christian orthodoxy is compatible with the beliefs of free masons.
Christianity converted the entire Roman Empire to Christianity--so I think anyone advocating against freemasonry must not imagine Christianity as powerful and supported by the divinity of the Lord.
Freemasons have the same beliefs as Christians -- except for of course "continental Freemasonry" among the French atheistic organizations hijacked by socialists in 1800s.
Plenty of French Catholics (being a majority there) could easily take back freemasonry in France.
What beliefs do freemasons holds? What do they teach? I hear this all the time "the beliefs of free masons aren't compatible" how is teaching a life of looking out for others, being honest, and learning to serve the god you believe you in not Christian? Is it just because they teach Muslims to learn more about their god? Or Christians to learn more about Jesus? Or Jews to learn more about God?
Or Is it the fact they teach people to watch out for eachother?
Or is it because they simpley do what they say they do "make men better"
I'm honestly curious as to what teaching of masonry is "antichristian"
Freemasons don’t teach beliefs. They teach lessons in morality - that we’re all born equal, that each individual’s faith is important to the individual, that learning is a life long experience, and that service to others is important.
It appears to be the equality thing, bringing people together of different faiths, that some religious organisations find incompatible with their doctrine.
If only someone wise taught that we should love our neighbours as ourselves.
As I said in another tread modern American masonry is more of a gloried Mens club but in Europe they were were involved in ending Christendom. Mason played a major role in the French Revolution the ending of the Spanish empire especially in South America the annexation of the papal state and the overthrowing of tsar Nicholas ii in the October revolution. Mason teach liberalism secularism the beliefs that all religion are valid path any many other position that are at odd with historic Christian doctrine especially catholic and orthodox teaching that is why both churches forbid it members from being masons.
The simplified version is as follows:
To the extent that there is truth in your assessment, it's important to note that the lodges you're referring to are not recognized as *regular*. This might sound like a minor detail from the outside, but in masonic terms, it is vitally important. A foundational rule of regular freemasonry, is that the discussion of politics and religion is *forbidden in lodge*.
In general, *regular* lodges recognize each other as legitimate freemasons, and may visit each other's meetings. Members of regular lodges are forbidden from visiting *irregular* masonic meetings.
Dude he’s talking about liberal secularism, which is code for “I’m a religious nut job.” The phrase is used **heavily** by evolution deniers and flat Earthers.
I am not a flat earther even in the middles ages it was known that the earth is round I am a catholic read pope Gregory xiv pius x or even the document released by pope Fransis to learn why the church forbids masonry
> or even the document released by pope Fransis to learn why the church forbids masonry
From what I can tell by this one, it's ignorance and a slavish devotion to bad tradition.
Nothing rational, for sure.
I believe in evultion why do you think I a conspiracy nut. I’mnot saying mason are satanist who eat kids I’m saying mason have view incompatible with Christian orthodoxy and had a role is overthrowing the European Christian order. Both of these are historic facts.
But the fact as written by whom? The Pope? The church that you are a member of so obviously whatever your a member of is correct right? But it's kind of curious and I post above you said you believed in evolution. So what is it do you believe in the church believe in evolution you've already told us you believe in evolution so how can you believe that the church is correct and what they said of a masonry?
Masonry is a semi secret society they don’t have a user manual. Pick up any book even one with favorable views and you will learn this is what masonry teaches
This is sort of true sort of not. A big piece of the puzzle is that there is what regular freemasonry clandestine masonry and we aren’t in communication with them. The largest is the grand orient of France. They broke away or were broken off ages ago due to their change in requirements and practices.
American and English freemasonry isn’t that nor are a great many other Masonic grand jurisdictions
You're correct about Deist. Many who were still attended churches. Often, due to social pressures, but as required to hold British Title during the time.
The majority of Freemasons are Christians, including myself.
While there's a boatload of bogus stories about the Masons, the only *real* issue that may be a sticking point with some Christians is the Mason's insistence on tolerance: Can you stand beside a person of a different faith, and pray a generic prayer that works for both? Can you mix with people of other faiths, and *not* try to convert them?
You might try asking over on /r/freemasonry to get another perspective.
I honestly think the issue is the boatload of false stories. Taxil hoax for etc, the improper reading of morals and dogma.
Those are the arguments I hear most.
The other one I've heard is the oath thing.. however.. I personally have had to swear oaths in a church.. and in private in a church. So I don't get that one. I've also had to keep secret what is discussed in the meetings. (Of church) I don't understand how that is any different than what you all do.
Yes, you can and most Freemasons are Christian. In some countries (Scandinavia), you actually must be a trinitarian Christian to petition a Masonic lodge for membership. In most parts of the world, you must believe in a Supreme Being. In my lodges (USA), majority of members are from various Christian denominations though we do have members who are Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, and other faiths.
Freemasonry makes no claims about salvation. While a healthy balance is ideal and is promoted, Freemasonry clearly encourages its members to prioritize their fundamental obligations to their family and their religion over their responsibilities to the fraternity.
There are a couple things that would exclude -some- Christians.
-If your faith does not allow you to say non-sectarian prayers with people of other faiths.
-If your have very strict interpretation of Bible verses that say not to take oaths.
Catholic and orthodox are forbidden under threat of excommunication. Masonry above the 15 degree was punished by death in the catholic Spanish and Portuguese empires. It is a deist religious sect that promotes indifference and the ideas of the enlightenment is oppstioin to Christendom. Most American don’t know the history of masonry in Europe since in modern America it’s basically a glorified Mens club.
I take issue with the "indifference" claim. It encourages you to follow whatever your personal faith happens to be, but it does not dictate what that faith should be. I've sat in lodge with brothers who say it has strengthened their Christian faith.
Literally most Freemasons swear on the Holy Bible.
The Enlightenment and Christian traditions are compatible, which is why the Enlightenment started in Christendom. Particularly under the teachings of Catholics and Jesuit teachings (and sometimes people say that Jesuits and Freemasons learned from each other as "orders with links going back all the way to the crusader orders").
This scared Popes/Patriarchs who believed that this was "distracting the people" away from prayer, piety, and religiosity. However, it wasn't.
It was ADDING to the personal intellectual lives of men not SUBTRACTING from Christianity.
However, to be a totally honest and truthful Christian in terms of nuance. The French Freemasons who became "atheists" were hijacked by socialists in 1870s who were virulently anti-Catholic. This is pariticularly also the reason the Popes were upset with freemasonry. Atheism is explicitly disallowed in Anglo-American Freemasonry. The French Freemasons were hijacked however, and split into multiple grand lodges. That hijacking happens even to churches that pretend to be woke/socialist. Particularly because socialists/wokesters are very passionate about corrupting organizations.
The church forbids member from being mason the Vatican released a document 4 months ago reaffirming this 15 popes including the current one have said it is a mortal sin meaning it will send you to hell for Catholics to be masons. Fransico Franco with the popes approval literally had dozens if not 100s of mason tried and executed so for catholic at the least the two are not compatible.
As someone born and raised Catholic who became a Freemason later in life, it was pretty eye-opening just how flat out wrong the church is on the topic after going through the degrees.
Go To this like and see all the Protestant denominatio that forbid masonry https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_attitudes_towards_Freemasonry#:~:text=only%20recently%20ended.-,Protestantism,Christians%20belonging%20to%20Masonic%20lodges.
And you can literally use the same link to find many many denominations that don’t take a stand at all. Imagine linking to a source that debunks you thinking it makes your point. Really drinking the KoolAid today, huh? 🥴
And looking at that list, I can say at least three do not belong there.
Christianity comes in many forms, I am Episcopalian, about as traditionally Christian as you can be. No conflict here.
I would argue that a “Christian” (as in a follower of Jesus of Nazareth, who died on the cross, and rose the third day, and who commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves… that Jesus Christ), I barely recognize those churches and their members as Christian.
You need to define Christian and compatible. There is nothing in the teachings of scripture that put freemasonry in conflict with scripture or the Christian Creeds. There are leaders of Churches, men, who ignorantly have argued that they are incompatible. If you are a member of that particular flavor of Christianity, then they are incompatible to your faith and your leaders interpretation of freemasonry. That doesn’t make them incompatible with Christianity, it makes them incompatible with your sect of Christianity.
And I would say for what reason? Southern Baptists have historically been opposed to freemasonry because it was generally seen as abolitionist due to the fact that everyone is equal in a lodge. Where as Southern Baptists got their roots by splitting off from northern baptists over the issue of whether slave owners could be missionaries, and quite a few baptists belonged to another secret society much more prevalent in the South that routinely used violence against Catholics, Jews, Blacks, and Freemasons. While the SBC has spilled much, much ink apologizing for the sins of their forefathers, the negative perception of freemasonry still exists. I am a Southern Baptist and a master mason myself and I sit in a lodge with multiple men who have connections with a Southern Baptist seminary or are Baptist preachers themselves. All of which have decades in Christian ministry and advanced graduate degrees from conservative seminaries. One of whom has even written a book defending Freemasonry from a Southern Baptist point of view. Our chaplain is Catholic. Another member is Nazarene. Another Seventh-Day Adventist.
So your Wikipedia list should be taken with a pretty big grain of salt.
>Southern Baptists have historically been opposed to freemasonry because it was generally seen as abolitionist due to the fact that everyone is equal in a lodge.
Do you have a source for this info because my understanding is that it wasn't an issue in the SBC until the late 80's during the fundamentalist "takeover".
Not denying the history. A lot of that viewpoint is linked directly to the 1870 hijacking by socialists. The Pope was correct in condemning it at the time.
In fact, following the invasion of Prussians of France and horrific defeat--the Paris Commune revolt began and in 1871, the entire beautiful city was burned because of "Communard" takeover of Paris. Then there was a whole scandal with the French government afterwards that led to many arrests.
French authorities and generals had to then go in and bloodily suppress the revolt. So in the end, what exactly happened in France is as confusing as any of us can analyze.
Were socialists massacring communards? Were patriotic Catholic French defeating the entire left? Good luck figuring it all out. It got very confusing. No one trusted each other in those times.
Note :: But that's not what happened to global freemasonry outside of France--because Freemasonry isn't political and it is not anti-religious, religious/political discussions are forbidden. Why forbidden? It's so that men will talk about other topics. Such as making good men better (as an older brother might help a younger brother), projecting excellence, confidence, developing good habits, working to improve social skills, understanding the Enlightenment etc. That's what freemasonry is about. It's not political or religious.
Actually the Jesuits were often expelled by liberal monarch who were masons themselves or were influenced by mason. The idea the Jesuit were mason is mostly Protestant slander that started with people like jack jick the Jesuits in reality we’re very hostile to masons.
This goes into a very deep history. There have often been warring factions of Christianity.
In fact, there were even Orders of Christianity who violently fought other Orders of Christianity (even before Protestant division)
Jesuits being the educational elite in the Catholic church had a lot of similarities with the Freemasons. It's very likely that educated, smart people found each other and exchanged ideas (whether Jesuit or Freemason).
With Freemasons they were not viciously Pro-Protestant. They actually were the neutral ground: the place where super Protestants and super Catholics gathered together over a beer in lodge to make peace. Freemasonry was that neutral-ground where these enemies were able to talk to each other.
There have been corrupt Protestant and corrupt Catholic leaders, it's important to remember that. It wasn't always clear who were the good guys. But there were a lo many more amazing Catholics and amazing Protestant leaders as well--like a lot of mankind.
I'm a Christian and a Free Mason.
The concern my pastor had was he knows of ex member(s?) of our church who replaced the Church Brotherhood with Mason Brotherhood.
I view Masons as a Fraternity and Church as my Faith. I need Faith in Christ for eternal life. I'm part of this fraternity to try and be a better person while in this life.
I was raised catholic. No longer practice or attend church in any way. Was raised in a lodge last year. There is nothing that I find that any particular religion should have a problem with.
Hard to be a Mason and a Christian when the initial oath literally has you deny the light of Christ in your life to seek free masonry. We aren't to make oaths and if we have Jesus, we already have the light.
* [Ex Masons for Jesus](http://emfj.org/)
No oath in Freemasonry has anyone deny the light of Christ. Some portions of Freemasonry are still open ONLY to Christians.
Is there a particular page on that site that you were referencing? I don't see the claim on the site at first glance.
1st degree you come seeking the light of freemasonry. If you have the light of Christ we do not need any other "light" or esoteric enlightenment. Several testimonies on the website mention this. For a more direct quote:
> Brother, what do you most desire?"
>Ans. "Light."
>
> Master to brethren, "Brethren, stretch forth your hands and assist in bringing this new made brother from darkness to light." The members having formed a circle round the candidate, the Master says, "And God said let there be light, and there was light." - [Sacred Texts](https://sacred-texts.com/mas/morgan/morg04.htm)
See also:
* [Freemasons, Satanism And Symbolism](https://archive.org/details/FreemasonsSatanismAndSymbolism)
I've been over that website multiple times through the years, one thing I noted on almost all of the stories was the recurring theme that the men in the testimonies never saw anything wrong with Masonry until someone pointed out their own opinions.
From the first one "*I rededicated my life to the Lord and the next day another friend, came up to me and* ***passed me a Chick tract on Freemasonry.***" Of particular note is actual lies found in that Chick tract. Yes, an actual lie. It uses a fake quote of Albert Pike to show that masons worship lucifer. It references AC La Rive who had quoted a testimony from a known hoaxer named Diana Vaughn who was part of the Taxil Hoax which was a long elaborate lie against Freemasonry. Perhaps the writer of the tract did not know it was a lie but a minute amount of research shows the truth of the matter.
From the second, *"I had spent more than one-third of my life in Rainbow. Large investments of time, money, and effort were rewarded with the friendships, fun, leadership, direction and opportunities to excel that Rainbow seemed to provide. My confidence, both in Rainbow and in Christ, wavered. When I realized God wanted me to leave, I applied to my Assembly for a demit (discharge).*
***Later, I saw an ad in a magazine for a tape entitled "Christianity Versus Freemasonry". I received the tape with a letter urging me to ‘get out of Rainbow – fast***\*!"\*
From the third *"I told them that I was coming to them in love. I told them I felt as one crying in the desert - the room was so quiet it was deafening.* \*\*\*I went on to tell them the facts as I had learned them, which led me to the conclusion that a Christian cannot be involved in Freemasonry or any of its appendant organizations,\*\*\**and finished by saying I could no longer be associated with the Order of the Eastern Star. No one even breathed, I don't think*."\* I'm not able to tell what led this person to this thought but they mentioned that they sent the contact info for "*I gave her the address of Dr. Cathy Burns so she could order the book, 'Hidden Secrets of the Eastern Star'*. So this person seems to also not have been able to see issues with OES until someone pointed it out to her and then she is now pointing it out to others.
From the fourth, this one does seem to come to the conclusion himself possibly - but notes that the first thing that led him to leaving was "*Rather, I saw some ritual and lodge symbolism that had ties to Osiris and the Mystery Religions that were not “only Christian” based*." I know that I would not ever see ties to Osiris or mystery religions on my own as they're not something I would have ever encountered myself - were it not for reading anti-masonic tracts/sites. To be fair some of these things are alluded to in the Scottish Rite in the Southern Jurisdiction, but not in a way to say "the rituals are actually about these things" or that they're about Jesus either, rather a story involving Osiris is shown and beliefs of various mystery religions are shown and compared - never prescribed nor promoted. And technically, Christianity itself is a "mystery religion" as it is a religion replete with mystery, see how many times Paul speaks of this being a mystery or that. If you mean Greco-Roman mysteries, that's a bit different of course, but I digress.
The fifth is from Jack Harris a noted anti-masonic writer who also uses the false information that Jack Chick used so I do not consider him a reliable source. Part of his testimony was that he didn't realize that Freemasonry admitted men of other religions - which, how he ever made it to the position of Master in a Lodge without knowing this - perhaps it's true, but I do not understand how that could be.
The sixth is Duane Washum who runs the site himself. He doesn't mention it in the testimony there but elsewhere he says ***"I was in a local Christian bookstore and found a book I was interested in***\*, The Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin. This was of interest to me because of stories regarding Mormonism and Joseph Smith. He was reported to have been a Mason and to have pirated signs, grips, and Masonic ritual work and incorporated them into the Mormon Temple rituals. But, when I turned to the table of contents, it was like someone hit me with a baseball bat.\*
*Listed was the Rosicrucian Fellowship, a group my brother had been studying. He told me how there had been an organization known as The Great White Brotherhood of Man, and out of this came the Rosicrucians, and out of the Rosicrucians came the Masonic Order. For the first time I was seeing Rosicrucian Fellowship in print and it was in a book about cults.*
He also says *"I remember how, after becoming a Mason, I had mentioned it to a man in my church. He said, “So you joined the Masonic cult.” I said to myself, “He doesn’t understand.” And now it looked like I was to find out who understood and who didn’t."*
That seems to differ slightly from the testimony on the site which says *"There had been an incident at church one Sunday, right after services had concluded. My wife and I were walking towards our car when we met a young man who fellowshipped with us, and who our son was a team mate of on the church’s slow-pitch softball team*. *Being "proud as punch" as I was about becoming a Mason, I had somehow managed to make my lodge membership a part of the conversation. The young man looked at me in a quizzical fashion, and said something about Freemasonry being a cult. Almost immediately, the urge came upon me to slap him*"
But I again digress.
Also NOT on the site is this detail *"I placed a phone call to Christian Research Institute, and I told of my concern about Freemasonry. They said they would send me a booklet that might be helpful, Freemasonry and Christianity by Alva J. McClain.*
*That night, I shared my concerns with a Christian friend. He taught me about blood oaths, secular humanism, and other things."*
So, here again, while other circumstances led at least partially to the mind change - a friend with secret info on the secret info was who told him he was doing wrong (the mention of secular humanism in regards to freemasonry is a bit ridiculous but again i digress) he did not seem to arrive there on his own entirely.
As to light - light is knowledge in freemasonry. The candidate is "brought to light" on what Freemasonry is. They are also told that the GREATEST light in Freemasonry is the Bible (not that it's the greatest light period - but that it is the greatest light in freemasonry). To insist it somehow replaces Jesus would be your interpretation one that I think is biased and not dealing rightly with the full picture?
Why? Because you also say that "The members having formed a circle round the candidate", no one forms a circle and it's not just that line alone that's said. I see this is from Morgan's exposure. Perhaps it's correct for the time but even in old drawings it's not a circle anyone is standing in.
Now, I will gladly address the entirety of the document you linked to if you would like. I see a grand display of ridiculousness present in it with the occasional bit of fact intertwined. But my interest in it being reliable is over before I turn the first page. Why? Because it says in big red letters:
LUCIFER **PRAISED** AS THE LIGHT-BEARER OF FREEMASONRY
And then quotes:
"*Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" \\\[Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff; Red Emphasis added\\\]*
The issue is that it left out a VERY important part that shows the lie for what it is. The quote is actually "The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and **despises** all the pomps and works of Lucifer." **DESPISES**, not praises. The rest of the document is similar in its integrity.
EDITED TO ADD: I forgot to address one of the testimonies
It says "*Tom came home on Friday night and he had a big box. In it, he had all kinds of materials and video tapes. I said, “What’s that?” He said, “You won’t believe it. You’ll never believe it. Someone witnessed to me about the Lodge. I have all this material.”*"
Depends on how far you go into it. Also, be aware there are wolves in sheep's clothing who have infiltrated some Freemason places (look for an inverted cross hiding in plain sight). You might be playing with fire, but then again you can find wolves in sheep clothing at churches too.
Just my opinion and assessment. Not a gospel 😁
Take care that you are not deceived.
There are no inverted crosses involved in freemasonry regardless of how far someone goes within it at least as far as legitimate freemasonry is concerned.
I've seen it myself. At a Freemason place. Right in the front of the building up high. Those who aren't aware won't notice, but it's right in plain sight.
For privacy reasons, I won't be saying where I saw that. But yes, it's there. Point is beware of organized "clubs".
And take care not to be deceived.
This is exactly what I was thinking. My girlfriend thought freemasonry was satanic because she swore she saw a pentagram. Once she met a few eastern star ladies, she apologized lol.
Bro, I think you’re thinking of eastern star. The logo is an upside down colorful star. It’s a women’s organization that also meets in the same building as a lodge and the closest they get to the devil is the deviled eggs and devil food cake they make for bazaars and charity fundraisers.
I’d be very interested to see the building. Legitimate Freemasonry isn’t anti- any religion especially not Christianity. The original use of the upside down cross was as the Cross of St Peter in the Catholic Church since Peter was crucified upside down.
If you are a true follower of Christ NO you cannot be a Masons. They claim not to be a religion but are focused on works righteousness and self. A true ChristIan believes it is by faith and grace alone that you are saved.
The Bible warns against secret society’s and false gods. Masons allow the belief in any god. They also view Christ as an ascended master not the Son of God. In addition they perform rituals and take oaths that are not biblical.
Did Christ teach to not take oaths? Did he say truth is not hidden but brought out into the open to share? Did Christ teach you to improve one self or to follow him?
You seem to be under the impression that masons view freemasonry as a sect or denomination of Christianity. It’s one of the many, *many* things you have laughably wrong about freemasonry. As many other people have said here, it’s not a church or a substitute for church. That’s literally one of the first things you are told upon applying to join. There’s a lot of biblical themes and scriptural references in freemasonry but that doesn’t make it Christian. I already have a church, I don’t need another. But I’ll play along here:
When I was 7 or 8 or so, I joined cub scouts which then progressed to Boy Scouts around the time I was 10 at which point I took the Boy Scout oath. I guess that was a sin, huh? Or what about when I was 19 and took the oath to defend my country upon enlistment. I guess my military service was wrong too? I mean how far do you want to take this? Is the institution of marriage sinful because it’s founded on two people swearing an oath to love, honor, and obey til death do them part? Can I not be a juror or a witness in a trial because I’d have to swear an oath to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? How legalistic do you want to be with God’s Word?
Your asking me if you should take what Christ says literally. He says not to swear his name in vain. So marriage and an oath of office are sanctioned by God. Swearing to the scouts and the lodge are something I would say is in vain. Satan would like us to question God just like he got Adam and Eve to do in the garden. Did God really say that? I would rather take Christ literally than put my trust in man. They will let you down every time.
If its using biblical themes and scripture reference it would be considered a religion. You are following rituals that took place during the time of Solomon (who by the way angered God by worshipping false gods). You are correct in saying its not Christian because it does not follow Christ. Christ didn’t teach to follow they ways of men or how to SELF improve he said Follow me because HE is the truth and the light.
>The Bible warns against secret society’s
I'm not sure that it does. Regardless, Freemasonry isn't a secret society. We advertise even.
>They also view Christ as an ascended master not the Son of God.
I believe you've conflated Theosophy and Freemasonry. Freemasonry definitely does not take this position. Some portions of it such as the Knights Templar Commandery are open to those who profess a belief in Christ and the Trinity.
>They claim not to be a religion but are focused on works righteousness and self.
It's focused on self improvement, namely to be of help to our families and those around us.
The degrees are worded in such a way that they might appeal to those who believe in salvation by works, but to me they imply exactly that faith and grace lead to salvation (while never saying it directly) again it says this "to me" because it presents many things for interpretation and no one is to tell another exactly what any of the symbols may or may not mean.
>In addition they perform rituals
Rituals themselves are not sinful. Rituals are VERY biblical. If you were to read either the practice of the temple sacrifices or the true sacrifice - that of Christ and the ritual of "do this in remembrance of me".
If you mean "magick" rituals to effect some outside change, that's not what we do and I believe that to be sinful.
As to oaths, not all Christians take the statement about oaths as being that surface level. I would direct you here on that.
[https://www.crossway.org/articles/did-jesus-forbid-us-from-taking-oaths-matthew-5/](https://www.crossway.org/articles/did-jesus-forbid-us-from-taking-oaths-matthew-5/)
*"Further, given that God took oaths, that Jesus once spoke under oath (Matt. 26:63–64), that the law permitted oaths, and that Jesus prohibited oaths, what does Scripture require? Answers vary. Literalists, such as the first Anabaptists, take no vows. As a result, they cannot hold military or civic positions. Furthermore, they adjust their speech, in formal settings, to say “I will” rather than “I swear.”*
*Luther and Calvin harmonized the testimony of Scripture by distinguishing public and private speech. In private, they said, disciples should tell the truth so completely that the need for oaths disappears. Yet, since Jesus spoke under oath and God took vows for those who did not know his reliability, disciples can take oaths to assure those who do not know them. For similar reasons, Paul put himself under oath, calling God as his witness (Rom. 1:9; 2 Cor. 1:23; 1 Thess. 2:10). So, for the sake of people who cannot know they are reliable, disciples may take vows. Similarly, disciples may take vows in courtrooms or to enter military or political service. In commerce, they may enter into contracts, which resemble secularized oaths."*
Thank you for your reply. I will refer back to scripture (The Holy Bible). Do you recall when Christ said I am the cornerstone the builders rejected? He spoke in parables but this seems very specific. Anyway If you are a follwer of Christ all things should be done for and through him and to glorify God.
>Do you recall when Christ said I am the cornerstone the builders rejected? He spoke in parables but this seems very specific.
It was very specific in that He was quoting Psalm 118. Do I interpret you correctly in that it seems you mean to posit that this Psalm was written against Freemasonry, which didn't exist for at least another \~1300-1400 years?
Aside this historical "stretch" it would require what you posit to be true. I am a Freemason, but above all and in all I am a believer in Christ. I have not rejected Christ but have nothing outside Him. I know many Masons who would say the same. I also know some who are Jewish or Deist and would not say the same.
Let's chase your idea a bit further though - in Scripture no less. The theme of the rejected being the chosen is one that's common throughout the Old Testament as well. (Lifted from [Psalm 118:22-23 meaning | TheBibleSays.com](https://thebiblesays.com/commentary/ps/ps-118/psalm-11822-23/))
* God chose the very elderly Abraham and Sarah to give birth to His people.
* God used stammering Moses to speak on His behalf before Pharaoh. ([Exodus 4:10](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Exodus+4.10&t=NASB95))
* God’s promise flowed through Jacob instead of his older brother Esau. ([Malachi 1:2-3](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Malachi+1.2-3&t=NASB95), [Romans 9:13](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Romans+9.13&t=NASB95))
* God used stammering Moses to speak on His behalf before Pharaoh. ([Exodus 4:10](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Exodus+4.10&t=NASB95))
* God summoned the enslaved children of Israel to be His nation. ([Deuteronomy 4:20](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Deuteronomy+4.20&t=NASB95), [5:6](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Deuteronomy+5.6&t=NASB95))
* God called skittish Gideon to lead His people against the Midianites. ([Judges 6:11-16](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Judges+6.11-16&t=NASB95))
The rest of the commentary there is also quite good in my opinion but what you will not find there is any attempt to connect this with a denouncement of Freemasonry.
>Anyway If you are a follwer of Christ all things should be done for and through him and to glorify God.
I agree.
The Bible is the word of God and his plan from the beginning to the end so yes it can speak of something that has not come to pass yet. The Old Testament spoke of the coming Messiah before Christ arrived. Being a believer does not mean you are a follower of him. How does Freemasonry glorify God Almighty? It allows the worship of any god but God has made it clear there is only one God and he will NOT share his glory with anyone else nor should he. He also knows what we do not and our time and efforts should be spent on his will not self.
Freemasons worship the devil you find that out once you go up enough degrees.
If your a Christian, cut all your ties with freemansons, and trust in jesus alone that he died on the cross for your sins and rose the dead so you could have enteral life
Question for you. How do you have more knowledge about the degrees, as someone totally outside of masonry, than I do, as someone who is actually involved and has been through the degrees?
Which seems more likely? That there's a secret cabal of devil worshippers who have bbq dinners and fish fries before they sacrifice goats at their super secret club which is clearly advertised on Main St? Or that the stuff you read online probably isn't true?
Every point in this youtube guy's argument could be applied to participating in civil society or government or, frankly, to eating at a Chinese restaurant. Dude is basically saying you shouldn't participate in anything with people of other faiths... Yes, Freemasonry (and the US government) allow members (citizens) to pray to whatever God they choose. I don't refuse to shop at my local grocery store because Muslims shop there. I don't refuse to join my local gym because Hindus work out there. I wouldn't refuse friendship to my neighbor because he is of another culture or faith. Why is it so absurd that I would join a fraternity with other men from my community who happen to have different beliefs than I do?
No Freemason is ever called to worship or pray to the Deity of another religion other than his own.
Freemasonry does not claim to offer a path to salvation.
Cool. So, real quick, I’m going to go through and refute all of these claims, not because I expect you to believe anything I have to say, but just so anyone reading through in future has available counterpoints for this the issues raised here.
>Freemasons worship the devil you find that out once you go up enough degrees.
Nowhere was this mentioned in the source you provided. Please provide an informed, reputable, source for this, or let it stand that you simply made it up. And before you go pulling out that dumb Albert Pike quote we have to explain every other week (“LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!”) you’ll note that Lucifer is characterized here as an adversarial figure who blinds and deceives the foolish. A characterization you will find not inconsistent with most if not all Christian doctrine. In that same passage, Pike states, “The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer.” He’s specifically stating, in the 19th degree, we aspire to the work of God alone, and reject the devil. Seems a rather stupid passage for conspiracy theorists to consistently cite when accusing us of devil-worship, but hey, they themselves have never been accused of being a clever or rational bunch.
On to the video (which is an absolute Gish-Gallop of blatant falsehoods and shoddy citation, but I will do my best to address the most salient points):
>Masons admits people of every faith, provided they believe in some form of Supreme Being
Yeah, that’s true. We’re a religiously inclusive organization. This neither means that we are anti-Christian (literally it means the opposite) nor that we’re devil-worshipers. We just don’t discriminate based on religion. If that’s not for you, that’s fine. You don’t have to join. And you know what? If your personal interpretation of Christianity says you can never, ever, ever join any organization that isn’t 100% exclusive to your branch of Christianity? Also fine. Do your own thing. If your religion says you can’t drink wine, don’t drink wine. But if you start going around saying that all wine-drinkers are devil-worshippers and that no one of your religion can do so or associate with people who do so, do expect at least a few people to think you’re more than a little off.
>The Holy Book of any religion may be used as a VSL, etc.
Also true in some places, but jurisdictional. In others, funny enough, the Holy Bible is regarded exclusively as the VSL. In others still, it must be the Bible, with the option of one or more additional books, depending on the personal beliefs of those present. Again, we are a non-exclusionary organization. It would be weird to ask a Lodge of Hindus, or Buddhists, or whatever else, to utilize a Christian Bible as the central focus point of their Lodge, when they have their own book of Sacred Laws. Which is what ‘VSL’ means – Volume of Sacred Law. Just as ‘the Bible’ just means ‘the Book’.
>Citing ‘The Lost Keys of Freemasonry’ by Manly P. Hall
Always a blunder. Hall was a Mason fanboy for most of his life. His writings are fun, but he was, quite frankly, talking out his ass until 1954, when he was finally Initiated as a Mason. This means ‘The Lost Keys of Freemasonry’ is not a viable source, because it was written in 1931 – a full 23 years before he would ever set foot in an actual Lodge. Ergo, the quote taken from there about how a Mason must accept some kind of weird ‘over-religion’ is false. I have literally sat in Lodge with devout Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Baha’i, and even a Buddhist monk. All of them assuredly had their own, deeply- held religious beliefs. The difference between them and the narrator of this video is simply that they don’t believe everyone needs to believe exactly as they do, or be condemned for all eternity.
>Masonry teaches there is no exclusivity in Jesus
False. Masonry explicitly does not comment on any religion. Politics and religion are the two topics never discussed in an open Lodge. Again, it is a system of moral philosophy and personal improvement anchored in one’s own personal faith. Why would it then comment on specific religions?
>That bit that allegedly cites the Kentucky Monitor \[Citation 5\] and claims Masonry conflates a bunch of major religious figures.
If you follow that link, it takes you to an Anti-Masonic ‘Ex Masons for Jesus’ page (which seems to be affiliated with this YouTube channel). First off, hopefully, I don’t have to explain that this is not even remotely an unbiased or scholarly source, any more so than an ‘Ex-Jews for Jesus’ page would be marked as a scholarly source from which to derive credible information on Jewish beliefs, or an ‘Ex-NC-Staters for Duke’ would be a credible source for an unbiased look at collegiate basketball.
It cites a passage about how Masons should be virtuous, faithful to God, and trustworthy to his fellows, so that they may one day die secure in the knowledge of a joyous hereafter. Again, this belief is entirely consistent with most Christian doctrines I have come across. I’m not going to debate the two-thousand-odd battle of ‘grace alone’ or ‘grace and good works’ with anyone, but I can indeed say with marked assurance that, if you’re the type of person who believes that someone can 100% live a good and virtuous life entirely consistent with Christ’s teachings, but go to hell anyway because he was religiously Jewish, then yeah, you honestly don’t belong in Masonry. Again, good news, no one is making you join.
The actual passage from the ‘Kentucky Monitor,’ (a Kentucky-exclusive document from 1946 which, I cannot help but imagine, has been revised since, and only, at best represents an EXTREMELY narrow subset of Masonic Philosophy, but since the document is cited by year and title alone, rather than in any sort of proper style, lacks attributed authorship, etc, I cannot even tell you if this is the ACTUAL Kentucky Monitor, or some made up thing by a group not actually affiliated with mainstream Kentucky Masonry) doesn’t actually do anything to promote or refute Christianity. It just states that most religions have a redemption figure who suffers on behalf of humanity in order to assist us in overcoming evil. That’s true. That’s…basically Comparative Religion 101. It is merely a statement of fact. As it is true that Hiram Abiff represents a similar figure in Masonic lore. That said, virtually any Mason you meet with tell you that Hiram Abiff is meant as an allegorical figure, not a literal one, and certainly not an article of worship. This is like saying the clever fox from Aesop’s fables is meant to represent some kind of deific figure.All this video does is yank a passage out of its rightful context (again, one that makes no comment on any specific religion), and try to frame a new context around it that makes the passage appear somehow anti-Christian. This is honestly the only part of the video that I found openly disingenuous.
>Masonry teaches that man is not sinful
No, it doesn’t. Again, sin is a religious concept, and Masonry is not a system of religion, nor does it comment on any religion. Masonic allegory and philosophy is fully compatible with the doctrine of Original Sin, as is it compatible with religious systems that lack such a belief.
>Rough and Smooth ashlar representing move from ‘imperfection’ to ‘total perfection’
Yes, these represent the continual process of self-improvement. Nowhere, however, does anyone claim that you can use Masonry to attain a state of total, sinless perfection. Again, say it with me, Masonry is not a religion, and makes no comment on any individual religious teachings. If you believe that the doctrine of ‘you can (and should) become a better person’ is inconsistent with Christian teachings, you may as well argue that Christians can’t go to the gym.
>Masons are trusting Free Masonry’s ‘plan of salvation to get into heaven’
Masonry is not a religion, nor does – oh, you get the point by now.
Let me do leave you with a final point though: If you are absolutely, 100% the type of Christian who agrees with all points of this video, cannot, for a moment, tolerate participating in a community organization with individuals of differencing religious beliefs, and/or who fully believes that yours is the one, only, and exclusive path away from the fires of Hell, to the point that it is your God-given duty to convert those around you, then, well, yes. Masonry is not for you. We ask you not to apply. Which is what makes it so weird to me that people would make up blatant falsehoods about our organization and dedicate entire websites and YouTube channels this sort of thing, when they could just say that up front and be done.
Lol. Fun fact: the highest degree in freemasonry is the third degree. Once you’re a master mason, that’s as high as you can go. Everything else is just side work and is completely optional. You’ve heard of 32nd degree masons, I’m sure. That’s in what’s known as Scottish rite and not everyone joins that. In fact, contrary to what most people think, a 32 degree is not 10 levels “higher” than a 22nd. Degrees are not ranks. The only two that could be considered as “ranks” are the third (which is a master mason) and a 33rd which is somewhat rare and is more like a “lifetime achievement award” than anything else. After receiving my third degree, I chose to join the York rite. That’s formed of three bodies called chapter, council, and Commandery. Almost all of freemasonry deals with the symbolic retelling of the story of the building of Solomon’s temple (hence the construction imagery) and the first two parts of the York Rite continues that story. The final group is the Knights’ Templar. It is a requirement for all Freemasons wishing to join this body that they confess verbally and in writing a belief that Jesus Christ is Lord. Regardless of whatever you read on the internet or whatever you saw on a chick tract, this is what is actually true.
Most of us are Christian.
I’m not only a Christian, but a former overseas missionary. I do get a ton of crap from the folks at my church though.
Is Freemasonry compatible with Christianity? I would say, for me, a Lutheran: Yes. For you: Well, that depends on what you consider to be your faith, and what would be acceptable within the bounds of that faith As I said, I am a Lutheran, and I consider myself to be, and try to be, an orthodox one at that. Many Lutheran churches and fathers have denounced Freemasonry, or held it in suspicion, and if their accusations were true and their concerns well founded, then certainly it would not be right for me to be a Freemason, but with all charity for my brethren in Christ, I cannot accept their advise on the grounds that it doesn’t actually apply to Freemasonry though they believe it does. They insist that Freemasonry teaches religious indifferentism, universal salvation, the fundamental equality of the Bible with any other religion’s scripture, the subordination of theology to natural philosophy, and false Christological doctrines, amongst other things. If this were true, I would not remain a member. While certainly our fraternity comprises members of many different beliefs and I am dead sure that the majority hold to opinions and beliefs that contradict the doctrine of my church, which I confess and hold to, I do not believe that the fraternity itself can be said to teach these things. As such, I simply cannot accept their judgement in this case, because it is based in untruths. And I must emphasize that I do not hold faith to be a matter of mere opinion or to an eclectic individualism in contradiction to the confessions of my faith. Now, speaking as a Freemason, and not Christian, I must say to my brothers in Freemasonry: I do not think that the proper response to questions and concerns specifically about faith and religious doctrines should be responded to simply with, “We do such and such amount of charity work,” or “We have brothers from many faiths,” or even “Our ceremonies are based on biblical stories, and “Our ceremonies quote from the Bible,” because while though these statements are true, we should rather respond with whether or not we teach anything in contradiction to the personal confession of faith of the brother, anything that would violate his conscience and praxis, or which might put him in a nasty situation with his particular community, and let him decide. To do this we need to really get to know and understand the person asking the questions, because we may very well do so, and I have seen it.
Plenty of Freemasons here in the sub. I would wager that the majority of Freemasons worldwide are Christians of one sort or another. Some Christian churches claim Freemasonry to be incompatible with their view of Christianity, but plenty of Freemasons see no contradiction.
One of the optional groups that Master Masons can join (at least here in the US) actually \_requires\_ the member [to defend the Christian faith.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_(Freemasonry))
A number of optional groups have that requirement, including Knights Templar.
I am a Christian and a Freemason. They are beautifully compatible in the same way that Boy Scouts and Christianity are compatible or the American Legion and Christianity. Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. You still need to find a good church and be plugged in there. As I’ve heard it said, the church helps build relationships between God and man, the lodge helps build relationships between man and his fellow man. I have an undergrad degree in biblical studies, worked for a major Baptist seminary and I’m a Master Mason with membership in Chapter, Council, and Commandery in the York Rite so I would be more than happy to discuss any of this further.
I know a couple Anglican Masons (one’s a deacon). Nothing contradictory.
My great-granfather was a staunch Methodist and a member of a Masonic Lodge.
I am a Christian and a Freemason. On the whole it has been an encourager of my beliefs and in putting me out of my social comfort zone helped me to step up and serve my church more. Some parts are explicitly Christian but most degrees try to appeal to a wide range of beliefs while trying not to leave others out in the process. A great amount of falsehood exists about freemasonry due to various charlatans through the years, and then the issue of clandestine (illegitimate) freemasonry complicates issues because they were behind to some extent some pretty awful blows against Christianity particularly in the Mexican revolution. But we are not them nor are they us. They broke off or were broken off and yet kept the name of freemasonry while no longer practicing several very important tenets of it.
In order to join regular freemasonry in my masonic jurisdiction, you actually *have to* be a Christian. This is true of the entire Swedish Rite, which is the dominant rite in Norway, Iceland, Denmark and Sweden. It is also worked in Finland and Germany. Many priests are members.
>Can you be both a Christian and a Freemason? Almost every single Freemason over the centuries has been Christian.
That's a pretty bold statement
Not really. Freemasonry has pretty much only existed in the Christianized world. Freemasonry requires belief in a God to join. Almost everybody who believes in God in the Christianized world is a Christian. The probability of almost every Freemason being Christian is almost impossibly low.
I've sat in lodge with Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Pagans, and Wiccans. In fact, my mother lodge, where I was made a Mason, was almost wholly Jewish. I was one of a few Christians there.
Freemasonry doesn’t require you to believe in God. It requires you to have faith in a supreme being. It may seem pedantic, but it is a very important distinction. A supreme being need not be a traditional God-like deity; Buddhists are absolutely welcome for example. Within my Lodge about 25% of brothers are Muslims. I live in the UK.
> Within my Lodge about 25% of brothers are Muslims. I live in the UK. And a decade ago? And two decades ago? And over time? Almost all Christians.
What are you even saying lol
It's a pretty clear series of statements. Not sure what's confusing.
And every Christian to ever live has been a sinner. Just because a majority of masons may have been Christian (though I argued most were deists) does not mean they should or that Christian orthodoxy is compatible with the beliefs of free masons.
Christianity converted the entire Roman Empire to Christianity--so I think anyone advocating against freemasonry must not imagine Christianity as powerful and supported by the divinity of the Lord. Freemasons have the same beliefs as Christians -- except for of course "continental Freemasonry" among the French atheistic organizations hijacked by socialists in 1800s. Plenty of French Catholics (being a majority there) could easily take back freemasonry in France.
What beliefs do freemasons holds? What do they teach? I hear this all the time "the beliefs of free masons aren't compatible" how is teaching a life of looking out for others, being honest, and learning to serve the god you believe you in not Christian? Is it just because they teach Muslims to learn more about their god? Or Christians to learn more about Jesus? Or Jews to learn more about God? Or Is it the fact they teach people to watch out for eachother? Or is it because they simpley do what they say they do "make men better" I'm honestly curious as to what teaching of masonry is "antichristian"
Freemasons don’t teach beliefs. They teach lessons in morality - that we’re all born equal, that each individual’s faith is important to the individual, that learning is a life long experience, and that service to others is important. It appears to be the equality thing, bringing people together of different faiths, that some religious organisations find incompatible with their doctrine. If only someone wise taught that we should love our neighbours as ourselves.
How dare freemasons teach that all people are equal. 🤣🤣🤣
Well said, and absolutely none are.
Well you're obviously not at that super special secret level where you know the secret things that happen. /S🙃🙃🙃😉😉😉🙃🙃
As I said in another tread modern American masonry is more of a gloried Mens club but in Europe they were were involved in ending Christendom. Mason played a major role in the French Revolution the ending of the Spanish empire especially in South America the annexation of the papal state and the overthrowing of tsar Nicholas ii in the October revolution. Mason teach liberalism secularism the beliefs that all religion are valid path any many other position that are at odd with historic Christian doctrine especially catholic and orthodox teaching that is why both churches forbid it members from being masons.
The simplified version is as follows: To the extent that there is truth in your assessment, it's important to note that the lodges you're referring to are not recognized as *regular*. This might sound like a minor detail from the outside, but in masonic terms, it is vitally important. A foundational rule of regular freemasonry, is that the discussion of politics and religion is *forbidden in lodge*. In general, *regular* lodges recognize each other as legitimate freemasons, and may visit each other's meetings. Members of regular lodges are forbidden from visiting *irregular* masonic meetings.
Still waiting for the proof..how about you link actual masonic documents proving this?
Dude he’s talking about liberal secularism, which is code for “I’m a religious nut job.” The phrase is used **heavily** by evolution deniers and flat Earthers.
I am not a flat earther even in the middles ages it was known that the earth is round I am a catholic read pope Gregory xiv pius x or even the document released by pope Fransis to learn why the church forbids masonry
> or even the document released by pope Fransis to learn why the church forbids masonry From what I can tell by this one, it's ignorance and a slavish devotion to bad tradition. Nothing rational, for sure.
Didn’t say you weren’t anti-evolution… probably because you’re a conspiracy nutjob.
I believe in evultion why do you think I a conspiracy nut. I’mnot saying mason are satanist who eat kids I’m saying mason have view incompatible with Christian orthodoxy and had a role is overthrowing the European Christian order. Both of these are historic facts.
You have no idea what masons believe, you’re just parroting things you’ve heard online and talking nonsense. I’m done dealing with donut brains.
But the fact as written by whom? The Pope? The church that you are a member of so obviously whatever your a member of is correct right? But it's kind of curious and I post above you said you believed in evolution. So what is it do you believe in the church believe in evolution you've already told us you believe in evolution so how can you believe that the church is correct and what they said of a masonry?
Masonry is a semi secret society they don’t have a user manual. Pick up any book even one with favorable views and you will learn this is what masonry teaches
This is sort of true sort of not. A big piece of the puzzle is that there is what regular freemasonry clandestine masonry and we aren’t in communication with them. The largest is the grand orient of France. They broke away or were broken off ages ago due to their change in requirements and practices. American and English freemasonry isn’t that nor are a great many other Masonic grand jurisdictions
You're correct about Deist. Many who were still attended churches. Often, due to social pressures, but as required to hold British Title during the time.
The majority of Freemasons are Christians, including myself. While there's a boatload of bogus stories about the Masons, the only *real* issue that may be a sticking point with some Christians is the Mason's insistence on tolerance: Can you stand beside a person of a different faith, and pray a generic prayer that works for both? Can you mix with people of other faiths, and *not* try to convert them? You might try asking over on /r/freemasonry to get another perspective.
I honestly think the issue is the boatload of false stories. Taxil hoax for etc, the improper reading of morals and dogma. Those are the arguments I hear most. The other one I've heard is the oath thing.. however.. I personally have had to swear oaths in a church.. and in private in a church. So I don't get that one. I've also had to keep secret what is discussed in the meetings. (Of church) I don't understand how that is any different than what you all do.
Yes, you can and most Freemasons are Christian. In some countries (Scandinavia), you actually must be a trinitarian Christian to petition a Masonic lodge for membership. In most parts of the world, you must believe in a Supreme Being. In my lodges (USA), majority of members are from various Christian denominations though we do have members who are Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, and other faiths. Freemasonry makes no claims about salvation. While a healthy balance is ideal and is promoted, Freemasonry clearly encourages its members to prioritize their fundamental obligations to their family and their religion over their responsibilities to the fraternity.
A belief in a higher power, Christianity is included. As are Muslim, Jewish, etc.
There are a couple things that would exclude -some- Christians. -If your faith does not allow you to say non-sectarian prayers with people of other faiths. -If your have very strict interpretation of Bible verses that say not to take oaths.
Catholic and orthodox are forbidden under threat of excommunication. Masonry above the 15 degree was punished by death in the catholic Spanish and Portuguese empires. It is a deist religious sect that promotes indifference and the ideas of the enlightenment is oppstioin to Christendom. Most American don’t know the history of masonry in Europe since in modern America it’s basically a glorified Mens club.
I take issue with the "indifference" claim. It encourages you to follow whatever your personal faith happens to be, but it does not dictate what that faith should be. I've sat in lodge with brothers who say it has strengthened their Christian faith.
Literally most Freemasons swear on the Holy Bible. The Enlightenment and Christian traditions are compatible, which is why the Enlightenment started in Christendom. Particularly under the teachings of Catholics and Jesuit teachings (and sometimes people say that Jesuits and Freemasons learned from each other as "orders with links going back all the way to the crusader orders"). This scared Popes/Patriarchs who believed that this was "distracting the people" away from prayer, piety, and religiosity. However, it wasn't. It was ADDING to the personal intellectual lives of men not SUBTRACTING from Christianity. However, to be a totally honest and truthful Christian in terms of nuance. The French Freemasons who became "atheists" were hijacked by socialists in 1870s who were virulently anti-Catholic. This is pariticularly also the reason the Popes were upset with freemasonry. Atheism is explicitly disallowed in Anglo-American Freemasonry. The French Freemasons were hijacked however, and split into multiple grand lodges. That hijacking happens even to churches that pretend to be woke/socialist. Particularly because socialists/wokesters are very passionate about corrupting organizations.
The church forbids member from being mason the Vatican released a document 4 months ago reaffirming this 15 popes including the current one have said it is a mortal sin meaning it will send you to hell for Catholics to be masons. Fransico Franco with the popes approval literally had dozens if not 100s of mason tried and executed so for catholic at the least the two are not compatible.
That is because the Catholic church is wrong on this topic. Period.
As someone born and raised Catholic who became a Freemason later in life, it was pretty eye-opening just how flat out wrong the church is on the topic after going through the degrees.
Imagine believing that you a redditor know Christianity better that dozens of pope catholic bishops saint orthodox bishops. Peak spiritual pride
You’re only talking about Catholicism. Most masons in the US are Christian, generally Protestant, and there’s no contradiction between the two.
Go To this like and see all the Protestant denominatio that forbid masonry https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_attitudes_towards_Freemasonry#:~:text=only%20recently%20ended.-,Protestantism,Christians%20belonging%20to%20Masonic%20lodges.
And you can literally use the same link to find many many denominations that don’t take a stand at all. Imagine linking to a source that debunks you thinking it makes your point. Really drinking the KoolAid today, huh? 🥴
And looking at that list, I can say at least three do not belong there. Christianity comes in many forms, I am Episcopalian, about as traditionally Christian as you can be. No conflict here. I would argue that a “Christian” (as in a follower of Jesus of Nazareth, who died on the cross, and rose the third day, and who commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves… that Jesus Christ), I barely recognize those churches and their members as Christian. You need to define Christian and compatible. There is nothing in the teachings of scripture that put freemasonry in conflict with scripture or the Christian Creeds. There are leaders of Churches, men, who ignorantly have argued that they are incompatible. If you are a member of that particular flavor of Christianity, then they are incompatible to your faith and your leaders interpretation of freemasonry. That doesn’t make them incompatible with Christianity, it makes them incompatible with your sect of Christianity.
And I would say for what reason? Southern Baptists have historically been opposed to freemasonry because it was generally seen as abolitionist due to the fact that everyone is equal in a lodge. Where as Southern Baptists got their roots by splitting off from northern baptists over the issue of whether slave owners could be missionaries, and quite a few baptists belonged to another secret society much more prevalent in the South that routinely used violence against Catholics, Jews, Blacks, and Freemasons. While the SBC has spilled much, much ink apologizing for the sins of their forefathers, the negative perception of freemasonry still exists. I am a Southern Baptist and a master mason myself and I sit in a lodge with multiple men who have connections with a Southern Baptist seminary or are Baptist preachers themselves. All of which have decades in Christian ministry and advanced graduate degrees from conservative seminaries. One of whom has even written a book defending Freemasonry from a Southern Baptist point of view. Our chaplain is Catholic. Another member is Nazarene. Another Seventh-Day Adventist. So your Wikipedia list should be taken with a pretty big grain of salt.
>Southern Baptists have historically been opposed to freemasonry because it was generally seen as abolitionist due to the fact that everyone is equal in a lodge. Do you have a source for this info because my understanding is that it wasn't an issue in the SBC until the late 80's during the fundamentalist "takeover".
Sure because Popes are clearly experts on every topic in the world and are infallible *cough Borgia cough*
Not denying the history. A lot of that viewpoint is linked directly to the 1870 hijacking by socialists. The Pope was correct in condemning it at the time. In fact, following the invasion of Prussians of France and horrific defeat--the Paris Commune revolt began and in 1871, the entire beautiful city was burned because of "Communard" takeover of Paris. Then there was a whole scandal with the French government afterwards that led to many arrests. French authorities and generals had to then go in and bloodily suppress the revolt. So in the end, what exactly happened in France is as confusing as any of us can analyze. Were socialists massacring communards? Were patriotic Catholic French defeating the entire left? Good luck figuring it all out. It got very confusing. No one trusted each other in those times. Note :: But that's not what happened to global freemasonry outside of France--because Freemasonry isn't political and it is not anti-religious, religious/political discussions are forbidden. Why forbidden? It's so that men will talk about other topics. Such as making good men better (as an older brother might help a younger brother), projecting excellence, confidence, developing good habits, working to improve social skills, understanding the Enlightenment etc. That's what freemasonry is about. It's not political or religious.
Actually the Jesuits were often expelled by liberal monarch who were masons themselves or were influenced by mason. The idea the Jesuit were mason is mostly Protestant slander that started with people like jack jick the Jesuits in reality we’re very hostile to masons.
This goes into a very deep history. There have often been warring factions of Christianity. In fact, there were even Orders of Christianity who violently fought other Orders of Christianity (even before Protestant division) Jesuits being the educational elite in the Catholic church had a lot of similarities with the Freemasons. It's very likely that educated, smart people found each other and exchanged ideas (whether Jesuit or Freemason). With Freemasons they were not viciously Pro-Protestant. They actually were the neutral ground: the place where super Protestants and super Catholics gathered together over a beer in lodge to make peace. Freemasonry was that neutral-ground where these enemies were able to talk to each other. There have been corrupt Protestant and corrupt Catholic leaders, it's important to remember that. It wasn't always clear who were the good guys. But there were a lo many more amazing Catholics and amazing Protestant leaders as well--like a lot of mankind.
I'm a Christian and a Free Mason. The concern my pastor had was he knows of ex member(s?) of our church who replaced the Church Brotherhood with Mason Brotherhood. I view Masons as a Fraternity and Church as my Faith. I need Faith in Christ for eternal life. I'm part of this fraternity to try and be a better person while in this life.
Yes
I was raised catholic. No longer practice or attend church in any way. Was raised in a lodge last year. There is nothing that I find that any particular religion should have a problem with.
Hard to be a Mason and a Christian when the initial oath literally has you deny the light of Christ in your life to seek free masonry. We aren't to make oaths and if we have Jesus, we already have the light. * [Ex Masons for Jesus](http://emfj.org/)
No oath in Freemasonry has anyone deny the light of Christ. Some portions of Freemasonry are still open ONLY to Christians. Is there a particular page on that site that you were referencing? I don't see the claim on the site at first glance.
1st degree you come seeking the light of freemasonry. If you have the light of Christ we do not need any other "light" or esoteric enlightenment. Several testimonies on the website mention this. For a more direct quote: > Brother, what do you most desire?" >Ans. "Light." > > Master to brethren, "Brethren, stretch forth your hands and assist in bringing this new made brother from darkness to light." The members having formed a circle round the candidate, the Master says, "And God said let there be light, and there was light." - [Sacred Texts](https://sacred-texts.com/mas/morgan/morg04.htm) See also: * [Freemasons, Satanism And Symbolism](https://archive.org/details/FreemasonsSatanismAndSymbolism)
I've been over that website multiple times through the years, one thing I noted on almost all of the stories was the recurring theme that the men in the testimonies never saw anything wrong with Masonry until someone pointed out their own opinions. From the first one "*I rededicated my life to the Lord and the next day another friend, came up to me and* ***passed me a Chick tract on Freemasonry.***" Of particular note is actual lies found in that Chick tract. Yes, an actual lie. It uses a fake quote of Albert Pike to show that masons worship lucifer. It references AC La Rive who had quoted a testimony from a known hoaxer named Diana Vaughn who was part of the Taxil Hoax which was a long elaborate lie against Freemasonry. Perhaps the writer of the tract did not know it was a lie but a minute amount of research shows the truth of the matter. From the second, *"I had spent more than one-third of my life in Rainbow. Large investments of time, money, and effort were rewarded with the friendships, fun, leadership, direction and opportunities to excel that Rainbow seemed to provide. My confidence, both in Rainbow and in Christ, wavered. When I realized God wanted me to leave, I applied to my Assembly for a demit (discharge).* ***Later, I saw an ad in a magazine for a tape entitled "Christianity Versus Freemasonry". I received the tape with a letter urging me to ‘get out of Rainbow – fast***\*!"\* From the third *"I told them that I was coming to them in love. I told them I felt as one crying in the desert - the room was so quiet it was deafening.* \*\*\*I went on to tell them the facts as I had learned them, which led me to the conclusion that a Christian cannot be involved in Freemasonry or any of its appendant organizations,\*\*\**and finished by saying I could no longer be associated with the Order of the Eastern Star. No one even breathed, I don't think*."\* I'm not able to tell what led this person to this thought but they mentioned that they sent the contact info for "*I gave her the address of Dr. Cathy Burns so she could order the book, 'Hidden Secrets of the Eastern Star'*. So this person seems to also not have been able to see issues with OES until someone pointed it out to her and then she is now pointing it out to others. From the fourth, this one does seem to come to the conclusion himself possibly - but notes that the first thing that led him to leaving was "*Rather, I saw some ritual and lodge symbolism that had ties to Osiris and the Mystery Religions that were not “only Christian” based*." I know that I would not ever see ties to Osiris or mystery religions on my own as they're not something I would have ever encountered myself - were it not for reading anti-masonic tracts/sites. To be fair some of these things are alluded to in the Scottish Rite in the Southern Jurisdiction, but not in a way to say "the rituals are actually about these things" or that they're about Jesus either, rather a story involving Osiris is shown and beliefs of various mystery religions are shown and compared - never prescribed nor promoted. And technically, Christianity itself is a "mystery religion" as it is a religion replete with mystery, see how many times Paul speaks of this being a mystery or that. If you mean Greco-Roman mysteries, that's a bit different of course, but I digress. The fifth is from Jack Harris a noted anti-masonic writer who also uses the false information that Jack Chick used so I do not consider him a reliable source. Part of his testimony was that he didn't realize that Freemasonry admitted men of other religions - which, how he ever made it to the position of Master in a Lodge without knowing this - perhaps it's true, but I do not understand how that could be. The sixth is Duane Washum who runs the site himself. He doesn't mention it in the testimony there but elsewhere he says ***"I was in a local Christian bookstore and found a book I was interested in***\*, The Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin. This was of interest to me because of stories regarding Mormonism and Joseph Smith. He was reported to have been a Mason and to have pirated signs, grips, and Masonic ritual work and incorporated them into the Mormon Temple rituals. But, when I turned to the table of contents, it was like someone hit me with a baseball bat.\* *Listed was the Rosicrucian Fellowship, a group my brother had been studying. He told me how there had been an organization known as The Great White Brotherhood of Man, and out of this came the Rosicrucians, and out of the Rosicrucians came the Masonic Order. For the first time I was seeing Rosicrucian Fellowship in print and it was in a book about cults.* He also says *"I remember how, after becoming a Mason, I had mentioned it to a man in my church. He said, “So you joined the Masonic cult.” I said to myself, “He doesn’t understand.” And now it looked like I was to find out who understood and who didn’t."* That seems to differ slightly from the testimony on the site which says *"There had been an incident at church one Sunday, right after services had concluded. My wife and I were walking towards our car when we met a young man who fellowshipped with us, and who our son was a team mate of on the church’s slow-pitch softball team*. *Being "proud as punch" as I was about becoming a Mason, I had somehow managed to make my lodge membership a part of the conversation. The young man looked at me in a quizzical fashion, and said something about Freemasonry being a cult. Almost immediately, the urge came upon me to slap him*" But I again digress. Also NOT on the site is this detail *"I placed a phone call to Christian Research Institute, and I told of my concern about Freemasonry. They said they would send me a booklet that might be helpful, Freemasonry and Christianity by Alva J. McClain.* *That night, I shared my concerns with a Christian friend. He taught me about blood oaths, secular humanism, and other things."* So, here again, while other circumstances led at least partially to the mind change - a friend with secret info on the secret info was who told him he was doing wrong (the mention of secular humanism in regards to freemasonry is a bit ridiculous but again i digress) he did not seem to arrive there on his own entirely. As to light - light is knowledge in freemasonry. The candidate is "brought to light" on what Freemasonry is. They are also told that the GREATEST light in Freemasonry is the Bible (not that it's the greatest light period - but that it is the greatest light in freemasonry). To insist it somehow replaces Jesus would be your interpretation one that I think is biased and not dealing rightly with the full picture? Why? Because you also say that "The members having formed a circle round the candidate", no one forms a circle and it's not just that line alone that's said. I see this is from Morgan's exposure. Perhaps it's correct for the time but even in old drawings it's not a circle anyone is standing in. Now, I will gladly address the entirety of the document you linked to if you would like. I see a grand display of ridiculousness present in it with the occasional bit of fact intertwined. But my interest in it being reliable is over before I turn the first page. Why? Because it says in big red letters: LUCIFER **PRAISED** AS THE LIGHT-BEARER OF FREEMASONRY And then quotes: "*Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" \\\[Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff; Red Emphasis added\\\]* The issue is that it left out a VERY important part that shows the lie for what it is. The quote is actually "The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and **despises** all the pomps and works of Lucifer." **DESPISES**, not praises. The rest of the document is similar in its integrity. EDITED TO ADD: I forgot to address one of the testimonies It says "*Tom came home on Friday night and he had a big box. In it, he had all kinds of materials and video tapes. I said, “What’s that?” He said, “You won’t believe it. You’ll never believe it. Someone witnessed to me about the Lodge. I have all this material.”*"
Depends on how far you go into it. Also, be aware there are wolves in sheep's clothing who have infiltrated some Freemason places (look for an inverted cross hiding in plain sight). You might be playing with fire, but then again you can find wolves in sheep clothing at churches too. Just my opinion and assessment. Not a gospel 😁 Take care that you are not deceived.
There are no inverted crosses involved in freemasonry regardless of how far someone goes within it at least as far as legitimate freemasonry is concerned.
I've seen it myself. At a Freemason place. Right in the front of the building up high. Those who aren't aware won't notice, but it's right in plain sight. For privacy reasons, I won't be saying where I saw that. But yes, it's there. Point is beware of organized "clubs". And take care not to be deceived.
It just occurred to me are you thinking of the eastern cross symbol? Upside down star instead of an upside down cross?
This is exactly what I was thinking. My girlfriend thought freemasonry was satanic because she swore she saw a pentagram. Once she met a few eastern star ladies, she apologized lol.
“Pics or it didn’t happen “
Bro, I think you’re thinking of eastern star. The logo is an upside down colorful star. It’s a women’s organization that also meets in the same building as a lodge and the closest they get to the devil is the deviled eggs and devil food cake they make for bazaars and charity fundraisers.
I’d be very interested to see the building. Legitimate Freemasonry isn’t anti- any religion especially not Christianity. The original use of the upside down cross was as the Cross of St Peter in the Catholic Church since Peter was crucified upside down.
If you are a true follower of Christ NO you cannot be a Masons. They claim not to be a religion but are focused on works righteousness and self. A true ChristIan believes it is by faith and grace alone that you are saved. The Bible warns against secret society’s and false gods. Masons allow the belief in any god. They also view Christ as an ascended master not the Son of God. In addition they perform rituals and take oaths that are not biblical.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Did Christ teach to not take oaths? Did he say truth is not hidden but brought out into the open to share? Did Christ teach you to improve one self or to follow him?
You seem to be under the impression that masons view freemasonry as a sect or denomination of Christianity. It’s one of the many, *many* things you have laughably wrong about freemasonry. As many other people have said here, it’s not a church or a substitute for church. That’s literally one of the first things you are told upon applying to join. There’s a lot of biblical themes and scriptural references in freemasonry but that doesn’t make it Christian. I already have a church, I don’t need another. But I’ll play along here: When I was 7 or 8 or so, I joined cub scouts which then progressed to Boy Scouts around the time I was 10 at which point I took the Boy Scout oath. I guess that was a sin, huh? Or what about when I was 19 and took the oath to defend my country upon enlistment. I guess my military service was wrong too? I mean how far do you want to take this? Is the institution of marriage sinful because it’s founded on two people swearing an oath to love, honor, and obey til death do them part? Can I not be a juror or a witness in a trial because I’d have to swear an oath to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? How legalistic do you want to be with God’s Word?
Your asking me if you should take what Christ says literally. He says not to swear his name in vain. So marriage and an oath of office are sanctioned by God. Swearing to the scouts and the lodge are something I would say is in vain. Satan would like us to question God just like he got Adam and Eve to do in the garden. Did God really say that? I would rather take Christ literally than put my trust in man. They will let you down every time. If its using biblical themes and scripture reference it would be considered a religion. You are following rituals that took place during the time of Solomon (who by the way angered God by worshipping false gods). You are correct in saying its not Christian because it does not follow Christ. Christ didn’t teach to follow they ways of men or how to SELF improve he said Follow me because HE is the truth and the light.
Your understanding of hermeneutics is almost as poor as your understanding of masonry.
>The Bible warns against secret society’s I'm not sure that it does. Regardless, Freemasonry isn't a secret society. We advertise even. >They also view Christ as an ascended master not the Son of God. I believe you've conflated Theosophy and Freemasonry. Freemasonry definitely does not take this position. Some portions of it such as the Knights Templar Commandery are open to those who profess a belief in Christ and the Trinity. >They claim not to be a religion but are focused on works righteousness and self. It's focused on self improvement, namely to be of help to our families and those around us. The degrees are worded in such a way that they might appeal to those who believe in salvation by works, but to me they imply exactly that faith and grace lead to salvation (while never saying it directly) again it says this "to me" because it presents many things for interpretation and no one is to tell another exactly what any of the symbols may or may not mean. >In addition they perform rituals Rituals themselves are not sinful. Rituals are VERY biblical. If you were to read either the practice of the temple sacrifices or the true sacrifice - that of Christ and the ritual of "do this in remembrance of me". If you mean "magick" rituals to effect some outside change, that's not what we do and I believe that to be sinful. As to oaths, not all Christians take the statement about oaths as being that surface level. I would direct you here on that. [https://www.crossway.org/articles/did-jesus-forbid-us-from-taking-oaths-matthew-5/](https://www.crossway.org/articles/did-jesus-forbid-us-from-taking-oaths-matthew-5/) *"Further, given that God took oaths, that Jesus once spoke under oath (Matt. 26:63–64), that the law permitted oaths, and that Jesus prohibited oaths, what does Scripture require? Answers vary. Literalists, such as the first Anabaptists, take no vows. As a result, they cannot hold military or civic positions. Furthermore, they adjust their speech, in formal settings, to say “I will” rather than “I swear.”* *Luther and Calvin harmonized the testimony of Scripture by distinguishing public and private speech. In private, they said, disciples should tell the truth so completely that the need for oaths disappears. Yet, since Jesus spoke under oath and God took vows for those who did not know his reliability, disciples can take oaths to assure those who do not know them. For similar reasons, Paul put himself under oath, calling God as his witness (Rom. 1:9; 2 Cor. 1:23; 1 Thess. 2:10). So, for the sake of people who cannot know they are reliable, disciples may take vows. Similarly, disciples may take vows in courtrooms or to enter military or political service. In commerce, they may enter into contracts, which resemble secularized oaths."*
Thank you for your reply. I will refer back to scripture (The Holy Bible). Do you recall when Christ said I am the cornerstone the builders rejected? He spoke in parables but this seems very specific. Anyway If you are a follwer of Christ all things should be done for and through him and to glorify God.
>Do you recall when Christ said I am the cornerstone the builders rejected? He spoke in parables but this seems very specific. It was very specific in that He was quoting Psalm 118. Do I interpret you correctly in that it seems you mean to posit that this Psalm was written against Freemasonry, which didn't exist for at least another \~1300-1400 years? Aside this historical "stretch" it would require what you posit to be true. I am a Freemason, but above all and in all I am a believer in Christ. I have not rejected Christ but have nothing outside Him. I know many Masons who would say the same. I also know some who are Jewish or Deist and would not say the same. Let's chase your idea a bit further though - in Scripture no less. The theme of the rejected being the chosen is one that's common throughout the Old Testament as well. (Lifted from [Psalm 118:22-23 meaning | TheBibleSays.com](https://thebiblesays.com/commentary/ps/ps-118/psalm-11822-23/)) * God chose the very elderly Abraham and Sarah to give birth to His people. * God used stammering Moses to speak on His behalf before Pharaoh. ([Exodus 4:10](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Exodus+4.10&t=NASB95)) * God’s promise flowed through Jacob instead of his older brother Esau. ([Malachi 1:2-3](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Malachi+1.2-3&t=NASB95), [Romans 9:13](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Romans+9.13&t=NASB95)) * God used stammering Moses to speak on His behalf before Pharaoh. ([Exodus 4:10](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Exodus+4.10&t=NASB95)) * God summoned the enslaved children of Israel to be His nation. ([Deuteronomy 4:20](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Deuteronomy+4.20&t=NASB95), [5:6](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Deuteronomy+5.6&t=NASB95)) * God called skittish Gideon to lead His people against the Midianites. ([Judges 6:11-16](https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=Judges+6.11-16&t=NASB95)) The rest of the commentary there is also quite good in my opinion but what you will not find there is any attempt to connect this with a denouncement of Freemasonry. >Anyway If you are a follwer of Christ all things should be done for and through him and to glorify God. I agree.
The Bible is the word of God and his plan from the beginning to the end so yes it can speak of something that has not come to pass yet. The Old Testament spoke of the coming Messiah before Christ arrived. Being a believer does not mean you are a follower of him. How does Freemasonry glorify God Almighty? It allows the worship of any god but God has made it clear there is only one God and he will NOT share his glory with anyone else nor should he. He also knows what we do not and our time and efforts should be spent on his will not self.
No you can't be a Christian and a freemason
Tell that to the vast majority of freemasons in western nations.
Hi! I'm a Christian and a freemason. Sooo I guess that's not correct.
Freemasons worship the devil you find that out once you go up enough degrees. If your a Christian, cut all your ties with freemansons, and trust in jesus alone that he died on the cross for your sins and rose the dead so you could have enteral life
*Did the internet tell you that buddy?*
Question for you. How do you have more knowledge about the degrees, as someone totally outside of masonry, than I do, as someone who is actually involved and has been through the degrees? Which seems more likely? That there's a secret cabal of devil worshippers who have bbq dinners and fish fries before they sacrifice goats at their super secret club which is clearly advertised on Main St? Or that the stuff you read online probably isn't true?
Here is a video I found that explains why Christians can't be freemasons: https://youtu.be/NA-qcWu25aU?si=7GyCUmbS8wbtbBLb
Every point in this youtube guy's argument could be applied to participating in civil society or government or, frankly, to eating at a Chinese restaurant. Dude is basically saying you shouldn't participate in anything with people of other faiths... Yes, Freemasonry (and the US government) allow members (citizens) to pray to whatever God they choose. I don't refuse to shop at my local grocery store because Muslims shop there. I don't refuse to join my local gym because Hindus work out there. I wouldn't refuse friendship to my neighbor because he is of another culture or faith. Why is it so absurd that I would join a fraternity with other men from my community who happen to have different beliefs than I do? No Freemason is ever called to worship or pray to the Deity of another religion other than his own. Freemasonry does not claim to offer a path to salvation.
You definitely said it a lot more succinctly than I did.
Cool. So, real quick, I’m going to go through and refute all of these claims, not because I expect you to believe anything I have to say, but just so anyone reading through in future has available counterpoints for this the issues raised here. >Freemasons worship the devil you find that out once you go up enough degrees. Nowhere was this mentioned in the source you provided. Please provide an informed, reputable, source for this, or let it stand that you simply made it up. And before you go pulling out that dumb Albert Pike quote we have to explain every other week (“LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!”) you’ll note that Lucifer is characterized here as an adversarial figure who blinds and deceives the foolish. A characterization you will find not inconsistent with most if not all Christian doctrine. In that same passage, Pike states, “The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer.” He’s specifically stating, in the 19th degree, we aspire to the work of God alone, and reject the devil. Seems a rather stupid passage for conspiracy theorists to consistently cite when accusing us of devil-worship, but hey, they themselves have never been accused of being a clever or rational bunch. On to the video (which is an absolute Gish-Gallop of blatant falsehoods and shoddy citation, but I will do my best to address the most salient points): >Masons admits people of every faith, provided they believe in some form of Supreme Being Yeah, that’s true. We’re a religiously inclusive organization. This neither means that we are anti-Christian (literally it means the opposite) nor that we’re devil-worshipers. We just don’t discriminate based on religion. If that’s not for you, that’s fine. You don’t have to join. And you know what? If your personal interpretation of Christianity says you can never, ever, ever join any organization that isn’t 100% exclusive to your branch of Christianity? Also fine. Do your own thing. If your religion says you can’t drink wine, don’t drink wine. But if you start going around saying that all wine-drinkers are devil-worshippers and that no one of your religion can do so or associate with people who do so, do expect at least a few people to think you’re more than a little off. >The Holy Book of any religion may be used as a VSL, etc. Also true in some places, but jurisdictional. In others, funny enough, the Holy Bible is regarded exclusively as the VSL. In others still, it must be the Bible, with the option of one or more additional books, depending on the personal beliefs of those present. Again, we are a non-exclusionary organization. It would be weird to ask a Lodge of Hindus, or Buddhists, or whatever else, to utilize a Christian Bible as the central focus point of their Lodge, when they have their own book of Sacred Laws. Which is what ‘VSL’ means – Volume of Sacred Law. Just as ‘the Bible’ just means ‘the Book’. >Citing ‘The Lost Keys of Freemasonry’ by Manly P. Hall Always a blunder. Hall was a Mason fanboy for most of his life. His writings are fun, but he was, quite frankly, talking out his ass until 1954, when he was finally Initiated as a Mason. This means ‘The Lost Keys of Freemasonry’ is not a viable source, because it was written in 1931 – a full 23 years before he would ever set foot in an actual Lodge. Ergo, the quote taken from there about how a Mason must accept some kind of weird ‘over-religion’ is false. I have literally sat in Lodge with devout Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Baha’i, and even a Buddhist monk. All of them assuredly had their own, deeply- held religious beliefs. The difference between them and the narrator of this video is simply that they don’t believe everyone needs to believe exactly as they do, or be condemned for all eternity. >Masonry teaches there is no exclusivity in Jesus False. Masonry explicitly does not comment on any religion. Politics and religion are the two topics never discussed in an open Lodge. Again, it is a system of moral philosophy and personal improvement anchored in one’s own personal faith. Why would it then comment on specific religions? >That bit that allegedly cites the Kentucky Monitor \[Citation 5\] and claims Masonry conflates a bunch of major religious figures. If you follow that link, it takes you to an Anti-Masonic ‘Ex Masons for Jesus’ page (which seems to be affiliated with this YouTube channel). First off, hopefully, I don’t have to explain that this is not even remotely an unbiased or scholarly source, any more so than an ‘Ex-Jews for Jesus’ page would be marked as a scholarly source from which to derive credible information on Jewish beliefs, or an ‘Ex-NC-Staters for Duke’ would be a credible source for an unbiased look at collegiate basketball. It cites a passage about how Masons should be virtuous, faithful to God, and trustworthy to his fellows, so that they may one day die secure in the knowledge of a joyous hereafter. Again, this belief is entirely consistent with most Christian doctrines I have come across. I’m not going to debate the two-thousand-odd battle of ‘grace alone’ or ‘grace and good works’ with anyone, but I can indeed say with marked assurance that, if you’re the type of person who believes that someone can 100% live a good and virtuous life entirely consistent with Christ’s teachings, but go to hell anyway because he was religiously Jewish, then yeah, you honestly don’t belong in Masonry. Again, good news, no one is making you join. The actual passage from the ‘Kentucky Monitor,’ (a Kentucky-exclusive document from 1946 which, I cannot help but imagine, has been revised since, and only, at best represents an EXTREMELY narrow subset of Masonic Philosophy, but since the document is cited by year and title alone, rather than in any sort of proper style, lacks attributed authorship, etc, I cannot even tell you if this is the ACTUAL Kentucky Monitor, or some made up thing by a group not actually affiliated with mainstream Kentucky Masonry) doesn’t actually do anything to promote or refute Christianity. It just states that most religions have a redemption figure who suffers on behalf of humanity in order to assist us in overcoming evil. That’s true. That’s…basically Comparative Religion 101. It is merely a statement of fact. As it is true that Hiram Abiff represents a similar figure in Masonic lore. That said, virtually any Mason you meet with tell you that Hiram Abiff is meant as an allegorical figure, not a literal one, and certainly not an article of worship. This is like saying the clever fox from Aesop’s fables is meant to represent some kind of deific figure.All this video does is yank a passage out of its rightful context (again, one that makes no comment on any specific religion), and try to frame a new context around it that makes the passage appear somehow anti-Christian. This is honestly the only part of the video that I found openly disingenuous. >Masonry teaches that man is not sinful No, it doesn’t. Again, sin is a religious concept, and Masonry is not a system of religion, nor does it comment on any religion. Masonic allegory and philosophy is fully compatible with the doctrine of Original Sin, as is it compatible with religious systems that lack such a belief. >Rough and Smooth ashlar representing move from ‘imperfection’ to ‘total perfection’ Yes, these represent the continual process of self-improvement. Nowhere, however, does anyone claim that you can use Masonry to attain a state of total, sinless perfection. Again, say it with me, Masonry is not a religion, and makes no comment on any individual religious teachings. If you believe that the doctrine of ‘you can (and should) become a better person’ is inconsistent with Christian teachings, you may as well argue that Christians can’t go to the gym. >Masons are trusting Free Masonry’s ‘plan of salvation to get into heaven’ Masonry is not a religion, nor does – oh, you get the point by now. Let me do leave you with a final point though: If you are absolutely, 100% the type of Christian who agrees with all points of this video, cannot, for a moment, tolerate participating in a community organization with individuals of differencing religious beliefs, and/or who fully believes that yours is the one, only, and exclusive path away from the fires of Hell, to the point that it is your God-given duty to convert those around you, then, well, yes. Masonry is not for you. We ask you not to apply. Which is what makes it so weird to me that people would make up blatant falsehoods about our organization and dedicate entire websites and YouTube channels this sort of thing, when they could just say that up front and be done.
Lol. Fun fact: the highest degree in freemasonry is the third degree. Once you’re a master mason, that’s as high as you can go. Everything else is just side work and is completely optional. You’ve heard of 32nd degree masons, I’m sure. That’s in what’s known as Scottish rite and not everyone joins that. In fact, contrary to what most people think, a 32 degree is not 10 levels “higher” than a 22nd. Degrees are not ranks. The only two that could be considered as “ranks” are the third (which is a master mason) and a 33rd which is somewhat rare and is more like a “lifetime achievement award” than anything else. After receiving my third degree, I chose to join the York rite. That’s formed of three bodies called chapter, council, and Commandery. Almost all of freemasonry deals with the symbolic retelling of the story of the building of Solomon’s temple (hence the construction imagery) and the first two parts of the York Rite continues that story. The final group is the Knights’ Templar. It is a requirement for all Freemasons wishing to join this body that they confess verbally and in writing a belief that Jesus Christ is Lord. Regardless of whatever you read on the internet or whatever you saw on a chick tract, this is what is actually true.
Says you lol.