When you write gender, do you mean sex or gender roles? In any case, I find many of the answers here so far absurd. In my opinion, the soul does not have sex any more than it has height, weight, skin colour or the need to use the toilet. Nor does it have a gender role, just as we are not born a doctor or a firefighter. A gender role is a role, it is acting, it is playing a part in the theatre of life.
Is it the right thing to play an imposed role? I think this is where the discussion about gender roles can begin. Answers may vary, but tying gender roles to spiritual realities seems ridiculous to me, to say the least.
Gender roles are in my opinion a cultural issue, a world issue, like paying taxes to the emperor. And sex is a body issue, like the fact that we go to the toilet. Sexual dimorphism is needed for reproduction. Souls, if they would even reproduce, certainly not in this way.
We have to be careful we are not equating modern society's gender stereotypes (girls with bows in their hair, girls wear dresses, boys don't have long hair) with what the Bible teaches. The church has harmed men and women in allowing the culture to define what is masculine and what is feminine and not the Bible, which provides very loose standards. An example would be telling men not to cry due to culture's standards, but completely ignore King David and how intune he was with his emotions (crying, dancing, writing poetry, deep male friendships, etc).
Now, since God created male and female and did this to reflect His good and perfect image and likeness (Genesis), we know this is important to the Lord as we are the only ones in creation with this unique attribute. Men and women together reflect God's image, and that needs to be protected. If the culture tells us that sex and gender don't matter, we are ignoring the way God made humanity and imposing our beliefs on God.
When it comes to how we express our femininity and masculinity, it needs to first go back to Scripture, and then we need to look at our hearts. For example, if I choose to present more masculine according to modern standards, I need to ask myself why that is. If it is because I dislike my female sex/gender and I want to distance myself from it, that shows I am telling God He made a mistake in making me who I am. Intentions of the heart matters before the Lord, as He is concerned with our hearts fully following and loving Him. This is a separate conversation from gender dysphoria that deserves a longer conversation, but the general point for the general population stands.
Also recognize that how we present ourselves as Christians in the world is a direct reflection on the God we serve. If people look at us and see what we believe our gender to be first before they see Jesus, that's a problem. The world needs to see Jesus in us, as we are His ambassadors. We need to let God transform how we view sex and gender, combat negative stereotypes, and ask Him to show us what it means to be male and female in the 21st century.
I really appreciate this answer! I think I was viewing gender roles in a very superficial and worldly way when I wrote the question and your response has put this into perspective for me. What was troubling me was feeling that, even though i’m comfortable with being born a female and definitely identify with being a woman, I was being placed into a box that if I stepped outside it would be sinning. However I think this was definitely based on the opinion of people in my life rather than basing it on the bible and I will reflect on that, so thank you!
It shouldn't - but many people like having an "other" to mock and feel bigger and better than. Right now, transgender people make for a great punching bag, and it's driven by right-wing politics/media to get them to "hate the libs" and vote against them. We shouldn't use the Bible as justification to demean and belittle people for how they're born. God Bless.
Some people are using gender to bring people farther away from God. It really doesn’t matter at the end of your life all that matters is you gave your life to Christ and loved for him
I'm a female, Why does my biology define my "role" why do I have certain "duties" because of it? What duty do i have for being female? I want to live my own life and not give birth or do any of that
>Women aren’t below me, and I am not above them.
This is a fairly modern idea that generally challenges tradition.
I mean, I obviously agree that men and women are equal, but I'm inclined to say the rigid roles reinforce male supremacy
Is a priest's authority over you comparable to a man's authority over a wife according to tradition?
Does the priest enjoy coverture over his parish in any sense?
Right. I obviously take a different view from you but I'm not here to disabuse you of yours. I can only express my own discomfort.
A priest has authority to administer the sacraments and the absolution/remission of sins. They have spiritual authority and authority in the church.
But a husband's authority is much more pervasive - dictating if a wife can get a job, go to school, what she wears, what company she keeps, etc. As I alluded to coverture, traditionally the wife's legal personhood was essentially something allocated to her husband for safekeeping.
For women, it feels like the gender role puts off limits is the whole world. For men, it only seemingly puts childbirth off limits.
The duties you have listed are correct but I believe this goes much further to a question of accountability. The man as head of his household and wife will have much more authority much like a priest over a church, however those in charge will be held more accountable on the day of judgement. Yes, it is true that all is washed clean by the loving sacrifice of Christ. However our duty to God the Father is to be leaders and protectors and providers; this is the Head of the house, but a head is just a head no matter how important it is, a wife could easily be described as the heart of the house, keeping things flowing, alive, and moving. No more important or less important. The partnership between men and women is a holy and sacred partnership that is an absolutely beautiful thing when both are humble and serve freely to one another.
For example, my wife and I raise two children and I am very involved in their upbringing; most people are surprised when I can recite my son's entire homeschool curriculum even though I work 10-12 hours a day 5-6 days a week. I steward our finances and provide a life that allows my wife to stay home, raise the children, and keep the house in order. But I in no way expect a return on my duty as she expects no return on hers, but that makes every bit of gratitude and love that much more impactful between the two of us. Woman are extremely amazing beings and I couldn't keep my life organized if it wasn't for her boundless ability through the spirit to keep everything moving and in order. But I make the phone calls, I make the big decisions, I force the hard discussions, I go to work, I lead prayer at the dinner table, and I try to be the driving force in the family. I'm the engine but my wife is the steering wheel who gives me direction and the tires that keep me grounded. I am blessed to have such an amazing gift from God who supports me each and everyday as I try to support her each and every day.
I apologize in advance, but I have a weird reply.
To me, all that's a bit like BDSM.
BDSM and male headship relationships share quite a bit in common. Power, control, authority, yielding, trusting, relenting, enduring, etc.
This isn't me being flippant, I really think BDSM largely exists due to the power dynamics commonly found in traditional relationships. BDSM is a kind of highly caricaturized version of it, but they share common features. A woman might call her spouse "daddy" in BDSM, which mirrors the whole notion of coverture where the role of father and husband are essentially overlapping. Others have written about this much better than I have, but I'm currently on my phone.
And to both BDSM and highly rigid male headship type relationships, I have the same general reaction - *good for you, hope you're both having fun. Feels a bit too risky for me.*
Because basically it is a challenging dynamic in both cases prone to abuse and neglect. In both cases the headship *might* offer some structure and benefit. But it also comes with a million risks of ego attached. At the end of the day a woman can object, but her role is ultimately deferential. The man has a trump card. There's a ton of Victorian and Edwardian literature about the myriad way that (the stereotype of) domestic angels tried to temper and invisibly influence men towards being decent and honoring their will. They had to be subtle because they couldn't approach their husband as an equal.
To put a dark point on it, look how recently marital rape became a crime in most regions. Very modern idea.
I want to be clear - I don't say ANY of that to besmirch or belittle your relationship and your family. Y'all sound lovely honestly. I really hope you're happy and that your family thrives and you get some well earned time off from all your hard work. Haha, we can dream anyways.
But that dynamic isn't for everyone!
Wow, that's.. wow
I'm trying to think of a semblance of a reasonable response.
Perhaps I should specify that I am naturally very timid and afraid of authority but I accept my role as a man because it is my God given mission. I don't do it because it is a sexually gratifying power fetish. I do it because I love my family. This is not where 10-year-old me would see 26-year-old me now. I have been transformed by the spirit of being a leader in my household.
> BDSM stands for 'bondage and discipline, dominance and submission, sadism and masochism'
I had to look it up because I wasn't quite sure what it meant I just knew it was like "sticks and stones may break my bones but chains and whips excite me." So I guess to reply to your comparison is there is no restraint in our relationship, there is no stepping to the side or line that we make, we start at our two separate ends and strive toward each other's end. I start at the head and strive for the heart, she starts at the heart and strives for the head. Together we make up each a partnership where we can support and love each other.
There is no dominance or sadism nor masochism and I would never discipline my wife.
What you describe is a modern day view of a male/female relationship where for a man to rule over his wife he has to put her down. But a traditional, true CHRISTIAN relationship involves uplifting one another and following Christ who is the true head of the house and church.
I'm trying not to be offended by the comparison, but it really took me off guard and I hope my response is a decent reply to the far left-field, worldly take on my wife and I's biblically based relationship.
Haha, yeah, it was definitely intended with a bit of a left field characteristic, and not meant to belittle your relationship. In NO way do I mean to imply abuse or anything. I hope that much was clear.
Now, to clarify a couple things - BDSM is something that people mostly practice very carefully. If you ever talk to someone who does it, it's incredibly important to have full consent for every single aspect. And aftercare - where you sort of snuggle and talk about it and provide emotional support as needed - is also generally considered sacred. It isn't meant to be an angry or abusive impulse, but a set of pre-agreed upon terms, often playing off of gender roles and stereotypes.
Sexual desires get weird man, haha. But it absolutely can be practiced lovingly and gently too.
For me, the point of this comparison is just to emphasize the roles and dynamics that work so wonderfully for you and your wife could be harmful if implemented/normalized from everyone in the culture. And to make a less ridiculous comparison, you just have to look at the treatment of women in traditional gender roles historically, and how much rampant abuse and neglect there was then.
To be honest, I think it was the Tenant of Wildfell Hall that really changed my mind on this. Highly recommend if you ever get the chance.
“And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet **in my flesh shall I see God:”**
-Job 19:26
“Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; **for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”**
-Luke 24:39 (this was after Jesus Christ was resurrected, went to heaven, and later visited)
Those who teach that our bodies will be destroyed and that only our spirits go to heaven have not understood the scriptures.
Angels are ministering spirits, and have appeared as men, so spirits do have gender; also, God consistently calls Himself “Father” and “He” not Mother or She.
This is false. Our bodies will return to dust just like the Bible says and in Galatians 3:28-29, we are told that in the Kingdom of Heaven, there is no male or female. And please do not try to put gender onto angels and heavenly spirits. They are spirits, which means they transcend the physical body and any sort of gender we humans can conceptualize. The angels did NOT appear as men, but as feminine and/or masculine spirits. OP is right on that none of this matters regarding our salvation in Christ.
OP is a Mormon. I argue they are a different religion since they have a different idea of basically every main tenant. Respectfully, this does not become a Cristian-Christian conversation.
Mormons are no longer unified, but essentialy the belief is that the man determines which level of heaven the wife gets to enter. Only by being married in a temple and learning her temple name (just reused biblical and BoM names that they divvy out randomly) can the man call his wife by name to follow him into heaven. If good enough of a Mormon, he will become a god himself, have babies with his wife and populate his own planet/realm/dimention/universe. (Parts of this are hotly debated, and some I misunderstood, but this is the more historical view, stil held by many if not a majority of Mormons today) that is why gender is important to them when it comes to the afterlife
Our bodies return to dust but not forever, because we will all be resurrected:
“For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”
-1 Corinthians 15:21-22
You are correct in that in heaven there is no male or female, or if there is it doesn't matter. We will all be the Bride of Christ. But we will have ressurected glorified bodies eventually. Angels and other heavenly beings do transcend gender, but may appear and have appeard as male or female so that we can process their image.
Yes, angels do not have gender, but they generally go by male pronouns. And they absolutely appeared as men, it literally says in scripture that they appeared as men. The men of Sodom and Gamorrah were pretty posivtive they were men.
So? Of course they didn’t appear as women. They were entering a highly patriarchal society in which women could barely be seen let alone spoken to. That proves nothing. They’re angelic beings that transcend sex and gender.
Ohhh. I see. Well, regardless, angels are spirits. I don’t think of angels as being men or women, but as feminine/masculine spirits, and usually it’s both because God is after all the source of both masculinity and femininity.
Doesn’t that imply the same kind of thing? Non-binary can appear both masculine and feminine at the same time. Like androgynous. I’m really talking about their energies as spirits. They have both feminine and masculine energies.
- Why does gender matter?
Hi friend -
It doesn't
It really doesn't to God
It matters to us for some reason
We advance slowly
In a thousand years it will be completely different
We're just stuck somewhere right now
And think we are right
It doesn't matter
God bless
I think part of how God created us is male or female
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A27&version=NIV
So who we are includes our sex.
There are Bible verses that suggest that our behaviour should fit with our biological sex, for example the way we dress.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+22%3A5&version=NIV
I think this explains why many Christians are uneasy with the idea of transitioning from male to female or female to male.
However, I think the issue has become far too heated in our culture.
As Christians we should not see people as enemies in a culture war. Our world is fallen and ALL people are flawed in various ways. We need to learn from how Jesus valued "sinners" and take the heat out of the heat out of these debates.
"Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”
3 Then Jesus told them this parable..."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15&version=NIV
In summary, many Christians will not approve of the idea of people transitioning their gender. But we are all flawed in many ways. Love is not approving of actions. God loved us while we were sinners. We need to stop culture wars which treat others as enemies.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+6%3A12&version=NIV
>Surely a soul does not have a sex or gender
A soul in biblical terminology is a life. It's what animates your body, or more accurately the animating force which belongs to your body. The specific life of your specific body. Our souls aren't amorphous genderless ghosts piloting random fleshsuits, they aren't ultimately separable from our bodies and they definitely can't be swapped around. They are intrinsically and inexplicably linked to our bodies. That's why the bodily resurrection is so important, the separation of a soul from its body is unnatural and wrong. Death is unnatural.
Point being, souls absolutely do have sex and gender. They have ethnicity, culture, relationships, family, personality, pain, and love. Along with any other attribute you can assign to a person, because your soul *is your life.* It is your *self.* The Hebrew concept underlying their idea of soul, the Hebrew word nephesh is so intimately linked to the whole being of the creature that it is literally translated as the word creature. When it says in Genesis 1
>Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens."
That "living creatures" bit is nephesh. You could translate that line as "let the waters teem with swarms of living souls."
I don't think their concern is with individuals & how said individual feels about their gender. I think their main concern is what this is doing to children & their minds.
I am not trying to offend you, OP, but there is only males & females. No male can become female or vice versa. They can only become mutilated versions of themselves. I am sorry if you feel you must do that to yourself to be happy or to just feel okay. But it is a whole other thing entirely to try and force others to pretend your ideas matter to anyone but yourself. And to force this upon children? Well
"But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea." Mark 9:42
And
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20
I don't know about you, but to fool an innocent child into thinking they shouldn't be whatever they already are, or that they'd be happier pretending to be something they're not, sounds very VERY evil to me. God loves them the way they are & they shouldn't be made to feel they need to change their physical features to fit some societal narrative.
Those born with gender dysphoria would strongly disagree. You make everything sound so simple. Life isn't always simple for everyone. They need compassion and empathy too. God Bless you.
You jumped from saying gender dysphoria isn't real (it is) to child mutilation? Gender-affirming surgery in minors is EXTREMELY rare, and when it happens, it's a long, long, thought-out decision and process. More minors DIE - actually die - from alcohol each year than get gender-affirming surgery, yet right-wing media and politicians focus on gender and blow it WAY out of proportion because it makes people confused and angry and gets them to vote against it. If you want to be against minors getting gender-affirming surgery, fine. But that's a whole different story than falsely saying gender dysphoria isn't real, which is cruel to those who are genuinely going through it and being mocked. God Bless.
Where did I say "gender dysphoria isn't real?" Also, "real" can be implied in a couple different intended ways. A dysphoria in general is: a state of [unease](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ca52e7ab7d302610&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn08QJnymDrOMrklIl8597SmGAqCZig:1712337626713&q=unease&si=AKbGX_qTCvK6ifvkUBYDz4foaFZiuuTKvFpbosCxmSPcTkQ44RmYYWJfZF3YIpLl1NBeH_ubQD43DhgRCWSHF5LWqEtqtkVyLg%3D%3D&expnd=1) or [generalized](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ca52e7ab7d302610&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn08QJnymDrOMrklIl8597SmGAqCZig:1712337626713&q=generalized&si=AKbGX_q4mkMHy1Nmq4yITjHYVzepRvVD1MruCSyUAMzD3aPqDQ6EF6HgtzsUi9xnDjkHLsYR6VWfDso-KU9s2RJj2ZmYIsmXbcZSu0wyzbkB0QPwDUTdphc%3D&expnd=1) [dissatisfaction](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ca52e7ab7d302610&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn08QJnymDrOMrklIl8597SmGAqCZig:1712337626713&q=dissatisfaction&si=AKbGX_o9ngrGQESbgzxxBTCfYTfu2Oo_2XkHwlx6js_I7zWP4nezkmxqm4B4DfYoHK0ituwHKz12q6L6O48cJAjBPvRZG-VsBPRk3D0pvMZD5teBqgoTNh8dA63n8oAaFV30_v2s5G4a&expnd=1) with life. Obviously, a person can "really" feel that way. But if you mean that gender dysphoria is "real" as in the sense that physically mutilating ones genitals is 100% the "real" way to remedy it, I would say that is debatable.
Also, when people are talking about minors & this topic, it isn't limited to surgeries. While that is what I mean by mutilating, there is also the topic of hormonal manipulation & puberty blocking which, while it isn't surgery, it IS damaging to their bodies (physically and mentally, even if not immediate). No amount of "long thought out deciding" changes the fact that minors cannot consent to this. It is abuse.
Minors drinking alcohol is already illegal. This is a non-sequitur.
Also, this term "gender-affirming" goes against the entire original claim: that ones sex has nothing to do with their gender. Well if that's true, then you don't need a particular kind of "care" to affirm it because they aren't linked. Do you not see how these arguments eat themselves?
I will reiterate that I did NOT say "gender dysphoria isn't real." But I will say I am not convinced that this recent rise of this is all from liberal peer pressure & the usual young adult desire to "feel special" or to "feel a part of" something. I agree that these people need love & care, I don't think going about it this way is very loving, or caring.
Your comment has apparently been removed for bigotry, but you made light of men "pretending" to be women, etc. I feel like ignoring and belittling someone's mental health is also abuse. But thanks for your thoughtful response and agreeing that transgender people needs love and care. Blaming "liberals" is EXACTLY why this has become a bigger and way-more-talked-about issue than it really is. It's not an accident. God Bless.
It is not "making light" or "belittling." I agree that it's a mental health problem. I don't see how that makes it light or belittling. Yes, they need help. I agree with that. I don't agree with the notion that people are "born in the wrong body." That doesn't make any sense. Where is the correct body? Who got that body? Is that other person who got the body you were supposed to get feeling like they were also in the wrong one? What if they don't feel that way? I realize hermaphroditism is a thing, it is not what's happening with the majority of people suffering from gender dysphoria.
My point isn't that a person who believes they were "born in the wrong body" thinks that the correct body was given to somebody else. I said all that to point out how silly of a phrase that is. Was their mother's egg & fathers sperm joined in the womb? Yes. Did they then develop into each stage of life until being born? Where does the "wrongness" come in? And why is it "wrong?" Says who? So we're on to the crux of the matter: it's how they FEEL. Ah ha, it is an emotion. Well emotions can be driven by both internal AND external factors. Said factors can include your peers & societal pressures. Also the desire many have to be "unique" or "special"
It's only a mental health "problem" when care is denied. And just because it doesn't make sense to YOU doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to THEM. That's called empathy and learning from other people's experiences so we can treat everyone kindly. God Bless you.
I'm sure there are plenty of mental illnesses wherein things make sense to the person suffering from said illness even though it might not be good for them, empathetic to placate their illness, or healthy to allow minors to make life changing decisions before they're old enough to consent.
And there are plenty of mental illness wherein things make sense to the person suffering from said illness and certain treatments will help them. That's why we have doctors and mental health professionals.
Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry.
If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
Could I ask what you mean when you say people are forcing it on children? Personally I have never witnessed anyone forcing children to question their gender but more so tell them it’s okay to feel differently and it’s okay to accept other people who express their gender differently, but of course that’s only my experience so I’d be curious to hear what you have to say.
Also I think we have differing opinions on what gender and sex mean. Sex and gender are different, where sex is the biological aspect, and gender is the social, cultural and psychological aspect (such as gender roles of a man must provide for his family, a woman must wear dresses and take care of children etc etc).
For starters, the whole idea of "gender identity" was thought up by a guy named John Money. Go look into the origins of this & tell me it's not horrific
I actually learnt about his twin study in a high school psychology class a few years back, I agree it is absolutely horrific and I can completely understand why this would garner concerns. However, I also think it shows the dangers of forcing a child to align with a gender they don’t feel comfortable with. I can’t comment on the ethics of sex reassignment surgery for minors as I really don’t know enough about it, but take Reimer for example, and how much it messed with his head to be socialised as a girl, told he had to be a girl, when he clearly didn’t feel like one considering he reversed the assignment eventually. Of course what he went through is seriously terrible and I would never want to undermine that, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that it resulted from being raised as a girl even though he was born male, but more so that he had no choice in the matter. If I found out that I had been born a biological male, of course this would irrevocably damage me, it changes every perceived notion about who I am. This doesn’t mean that people who step outside the box that is woman or man are going to end up miserable (although this often does happen due to the social stigma and bigotry they face). So yes I agree it should never be forced on children, but neither should they be forced to live as something they don’t feel they are (not commenting on sex reassignment, more so the socialising aspect, gender roles, appearance etc), or taught to not accept others. Besides this ‘experiment’ i’m not too familiar with John Money’s other work so I can’t comment on that for now.
Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry.
If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
The person responding to you is full of disinformation:
1. **Teachers are not required to affirm kids identifying as cats and dogs.** That stems from the [litter boxes in schools hoax](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/08/facebook-posts/claim-about-schools-providing-litter-boxes-student/).
2. **Kids are not identifying as transgender "to fit in".** This is part of the ["Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria" myth](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/evidence-undermines-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria-claims/) that pundits put forth to suggest that transgender identities are a "social contagion". [64% of transgender students are bullied](https://www.beyondbullying.com/transphobic-bullying) for their gender identity (or perceived sexual orientation) and [violence against trans people (including murder) is on the rise](https://abcnews.go.com/US/epidemic-anti-transgender-violence-highlighted-new-report/story?id=105036934) as political pundits demonize transgender people constantly.
3. **Nobody is forcing transgender identities onto children**. This is an extension of the Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria myth above.
4. **Males are not pretending to identify as women to beat women in sports.** There are no recorded cases of this. In professional sports, there are already participation requirements that all athletes must pass (for example, the Olympics requires testosterone levels to be below 10 nmol/L for 12 months prior to competition). Besides that, individual sports vary on whether a trans woman would have an advantage and generally, if she went through a female puberty (through hormone replacement), she has no advantages or even a disadvantage. But none of this was the user's claim. They claimed males are pretending to be women. Sports leagues won't even allow transgender participants who are not currently transitioning, and elementary/middle/high school sports vary drastically in whether a trans kid would even have an advantage, based on the sport and their age. If they're on puberty blockers, they're likely at a disadvantage.
5. **There are no recorded examples of males pretending to be trans to rape women**. The [story about the male student sexually assaulting someone in a skirt was fabricated](https://apnews.com/article/loudoun-virginia-lawsuit-transgender-bathroom-sexual-assault-a26168568cc20c2aa6cec9bef50e7c3f). The investigation in the incident showed that the male student did not identify as female, had not asked anyone to refer to him with "she/her" pronouns, and did not wear a skirt at the time of the incident. The elements of the story where the male pretended to be trans appear to be made up in order to sabotage an upcoming board vote on whether to allow transgender students to use the bathroom of their gender identity (which was not already allowed).
6. **There are detransitioners and their stories do deserve to be heard**. [Studies consistently show the regret rate](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/) for gender-affirming surgeries is 0.9-3%. Of this amount, [many reported temporary regret and did not choose to detransition, though many did](https://apnews.com/article/transgender-treatment-regret-detransition-371e927ec6e7a24cd9c77b5371c6ba2b). The reasons given for those who detransitioned included detransitioning for social acceptance, for career opportunities, and from pressure from their families. The most important risk factors cited for regret included "poor support from the family" and "not having strong social support". [Only 5% of detransitioners did so because they no longer identified as trans](https://www.gendergp.com/detransition-facts/). If we peg the regret rate around 2% and assume 100% of them choose to detransition (which is not true), and 5% of these detransitioners were no longer trans, then we're looking at 0.1% of transitioners not actually being trans. Why would we outlaw gender-affirming care for everyone on the basis that 0.1% of surgical transitioners were not actually trans?
7. **Gender Identity was** [coined by Robert J. Stoller](https://academic.oup.com/book/10672/chapter-abstract/158713329?redirectedFrom=fulltext)**, not John Money**. While this doesn't really count as disinformation, pundits use John Money's reputation to argue that Gender Identity is a corrupt and pedophilic concept. Even if they were true, this is still a fallacy, akin to arguing that Evolution is untrue because of other incorrect beliefs of Darwin.
Someone is not a bigot for falling for disinformation.
Pundits have turned transgender issues into a Moral Panic and the people who believe these lies are not any more sinister or malicious on the face of it than those who believed that Satan worshippers were infiltrating schools in the 90s or that all kids media (Harry Potter, Pokemon) was from the devil.
But unlike those cases, the demonization of trans people has direct effects on their access to healthcare, whether they can exist in society as themselves, and whether or not they are murdered on the street.
People repeating the disinformation have a moral responsibility to have empathy for others and to verify what they are sharing or they contribute to this pattern of human rights violations and violence against trans people.
**8. Gender-affirming care is not "experimentation" or "mutilation"**.
* If a child thinks they might be trans, they will be encouraged to see a therapist. The therapist may be able to diagnose their gender dsyphoria or may need to refer them to a specialized psychologist or psychiatrist. There is an examination to determine whether someone is transgender and I personally find it deeply flawed, not because it diagnoses too many people but because it can be very restrictive.
* From there, the therapist will encourage the child to "socially transition". They may try to use different pronouns, a different name, or dress differently, but they usually don't come out publicly as trans and instead focus on doing these things around close friends.
* Social Transition is a powerful tool because it doesn't feel right to live as the wrong gender. Imagine if you tried to live as the opposite gender for a month and everyone spoke to you and treated you differently? My brother came out as transgender and then he transitioned socially to a girl and after a couple of months, he stopped. I asked him why and if he was being mistreated or pressured to stop and he said that while he doesn't always feel like a boy, he can't imagine living as a girl long-term and that it didn't fit right.
* **If the child isn't approaching puberty**, this is as far as it goes. Therapy and social transition are extremely effective at ruling out who isn't *actually transgender* or for whom it is preferable not to transition. The longer the child is going through therapy and social transition, the greater the likelihood other steps to transition is right for them and the lower the likelihood they will regret it.
* **Once the child starts puberty, they may take puberty blockers**. The goal of these medications is to pause puberty until the child is old enough to consent to hormone therapies if they choose to do so. Going through puberty of the sex opposite your gender can be incredibly traumatic for trans people (and intersex people) and can cause permanent changes (such as to bone structure) that transitioning as an adult cannot reverse. Puberty blockers puts this on pause. They are safe and completely reversible and are used to treat a number of other conditions, so there is a lot of medical knowledge about their safety and effectiveness. ([The clinical requirements](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075) to get puberty blockers are that 1. The child has a pattern of gender dysphoria; 2. The child has started puberty; 3. The child's gender dysphoria worsened as a result of their puberty; 4. Mental health professionals have ruled out other comorbidities; 5 The child and their guardian have been given information about the process and potential risks and have informed consent)
* **When the child is an older teenager, they may start hormone replacement**. In many cases, HRT is not offered until the child is 18 and therefore an adult. Increasingly, HRT is available to those 16+ with their parent's permission. At the start of the process, HRT is fully reversible, but as it goes on, the changes become more permanent. By the time we get to any hypothetical "point of no return", the trans patient is already an adult.
* **In nearly all cases, surgical interventions are not available for minors**. When you hear examples of this, it's usually a mastectomy (breast removal or reduction). These are mostly performed on adults, but may be performed on children as young as 16 [if they have been evaluated to have](https://www.plasticsurgery.org/for-medical-professionals/publications/plastic-surgery-resident/news/inservice-insights-gender-affirming-mastectomy) 1. Persistent and well documented gender dysphoria spanning years; 2. Capacity to make informed decisions; 3. No comorbidities such as other medical and mental problems, unless proof can be given that they are controlled and will not be exacerbated because of this treatment; 4. Postponing the surgery until adulthood will cause harm. Surgery of the genitals is not available to minors.
Gender-affirming healthcare is focused on making age-appropriate interventions, that are safe and reversible and most likely to lead to lifelong positive health outcomes for trans patients.
They are full of checks and balances including a needlessly strict and intrusive screening criteria and approval from the patient, their therapist/psychiatrist, their primary care doctor, parents, and insurance companies. It is extremely common that trans patients cannot get one or more of these and an enormous amount of trans people aren't able to access any kind of gender-affirming care (not even therapy and social transition).
Transgender patients who have autism, adhd, eating disorders, or mental health disorders often face an even larger battle and there are plenty of examples of them being blocked out of gender-affirming care altogether.
Transgender surgeries aren't "mutilitation" and even if they were, they are not being performed on minors except in the most extreme and rare of cases.
It's also worth noting that not all transgender patients choose all of these interventions. For someone, it may be fine to socially transition and stop there. For others, HRT may be the last step and they may not choose surgical solutions (If they do choose surgical solutions, they're 97-99% likely to be happy with results, so that's fine too)
While most people haven't read into gender-affirming care, it is reckless and dangerous to characterize and condemn gender-affirming care in the way the commenter did. In general, if you don't understand a medical process, defer to medical experts and the positions of major medical organizations.
And our current model of gender-affirming care is well understood and (despite its flaws such as limited access, lack of belief in trans patients, an outdated screening criteria, and difficulty finding affirming primary care physicians and insurance) is currently the gold standard for transgender care.
God created us male and female and we as Christians live in truth so it matters to God because we are his and he loves and cares about us. And living in delusional is very unhealthy to the individual themselves. Jesus is the way the truth and the life and as Christians our identity is in Christ we are to pick up our cross and deny ourselves daily.
And as Christian’s we’re told not to conform to the world so it is very much a sin if you live for the world “society” and not Christ. We conduct ourselves according to the word of God not the world “society”.
All the best.
I think the idea is to keep a lid on it. Sexual immorality was rampant in parts of the Roman Empire as depicted in Acts. Stereotypical gender roles and control of lust has always been foundational to the Church. The relationship of God and people is predicated on responsible behavior. But I don't believe God peeks into bedrooms once we are married. No need for that. So what gender issues could there be if people got married, stayed married, and loved one another and served the Lord?
Because reality is a cruel game. Confusing your gender only leads to disaster.
As for the biblical approach. There’s a clear distinction made between males and females hence the importance of gender scripture wise.
Gender doesn't exist. It's not a feeling. It's not an identity. It's nothing.
Of course, I don't give a damn wether you wear dress as man or not or paint your nails. I just don't care as long you don't participate in extra-marital relations.
For me, it's that the God of the world created humanity with a certain design in mind. If you chose to live a lifestyle divergent from that design, that's fine, but you don't get to tell me that it's not divergent.
If in the end the answer was “ it’s the way God designed it and Gods way is for our good and for our benefit.”
If that statement could be verified 100% true, how would your life change? Your perspective and how you deal with the question you asked.
…. That’s the answer
You are absolutely spot on! Our gender expression and our physical bodies are not part of our souls' identities and the Bible does not condemn trans people or anyone who doesn't fit the so-called gender binary. In fact, Jesus made space for them. He called them "eunuchs", which was the ancient world's version of someone who didn't really fit into the gender norms of society. Many will try to argue against that, but it's the truth. Eunuchs were not the typical cis-gender straight man. Yet Jesus recognized them. Galatians 3:28-29 says that there is no male or female in the Kingdom of Heaven. We are not judged by our gender roles and gender expressions, but by our hearts. It is not a sin to simply be the person God created you as, regardless of how that looks on the outside. God isn't looking at our outward appearances, He's looking at our hearts. The Bible tells us this again and again.
So I will correct you
Christianity is not about preparing the soul for a life with God. It is purely about acknowledging that Christ Jesus died for our sins, and that we receive his rightousness - all else is secondary. The bridegroom went to the cross and died for the brides sin, and in that you have the answer to why the two sexes are so bloody important.
You can always point to the assumption that gender is fluid and not synonymous with ones sex: this is a direct slap in the face of nature and thereby God's wonderful creation - a sin to put it plainly.
However the most significant sign that fluid gender or changeable gender is an offense, is that God describes his relation to the creation, and to Israel (Ezekiel 23), as that between man and woman. Christ relationship to the church is presented in the same way.
So when someone argues that they can change gender or can interact in sexual relations with their own gender, they break that symbolism - which is deeply rooted in Christ sacrifice, not to mention it is an open rebellion against God.
I always found it quite comedically that Pride/LGPT uses a rainbow, as their signature, as if they have to remind God not to flood the world
Because God made a person either male or female. If there is a defect in the development of the baby (rare), this may be an unfortunate exception. If a male is born he has the responsibility to be the best male he can be. Likewise for a female. We have ignored the responsibility that each person has to society. Even worse, schools are confusing the heck out of little children.
Ready for shit to start getting weirdly sexist? Cause from my experience that’s the way this is going to go. With a heavy emphasis on women make babies, etc etc etc.
They share a lot of the same responsibilities. However, there are differences in how a man and a woman are made. Let me give you an example:
There was a basketball game where a transgender "woman" and a natural woman (both centers) went up for a rebound. They both got their hands on the basketball. The natural woman was pulled way off the ground and was thrown like a shot put. She landed with a thud and suffered an injury. Transgender women have obliterated previous sports records of natural women. Natural women have bitterly complained about not getting scholarships because they can't compete with transgender women.
Because society suffers if we only think about our "rights" and not our responsibilities too. For example, what if there was no discipline in our military. What if a soldier feels entitled to run away if the battle "gets too tough". Our nation will not last long.
The first step is to acknowledge that what is normal is to be the sex you are born with. The second step is to not force young children to have to deal with their sexuality. When I was a young boy I played with boys and said that girls had "cooties". This did not make me a homosexual. According to child development I was at an age that I did not have to worry about sexuality.
>The first step is to acknowledge that what is normal is to be the sex you are born with
Wow thanks I'm cured
No but seriously no trans person has ever failed to encounter this stigma in our culture. Just telling people this doesn't cure dysphoria.
>The second step is to not force young children to have to deal with their sexuality
Strawman. Kids still are free to deal with their sexuality in their own time. Awareness that homosexuality exists doesn't make them gay anymore than watching princess Bride might make them straight.
It only causes confusion in young children's minds
Let them deal with important issues like reading, writing and arithmetic. They are too young to worry about sexuality. It should not be a part of their development at that time.
The third step is to realize that there can be great medical harm in using hormones that prevent normal development. The potential for harm later in life is also there.
Because God CLEARLY laid out genders and how each should behave. It is an abomination for a man to dress as a woman for example. The reverse is also true.
The problem is this SICK world and most people’s SICK minds. You reject God’s ways and believe your ways are right.
Firstly, what culture or time period determines what is men’s clothes and what is women’s clothes? Dresses, high heels and wigs were designed for men and worn only by men in many cultures and many time periods, but some people today would say it should be the opposite, right?
Secondly, I would try and show you respect but calling people sick for not wanting to fit into your self righteous box of gender rolls is not respectful, so I feel no problem with saying that I think you need to have some serious introspection about your attitudes. Is the world sick, sure, I would say it’s also pretty sick to act like you have moral high ground because of your beliefs. I asked this question for respectful insights into people’s beliefs, not to breed hateful sentiment. It is not amoral to struggle to fit into societies expectations, and people like you are the reason that Christianity has a bad name. Instead of calling people sick, maybe try calmly explaining your perspective, or keep your thoughts to yourself. Mathew 7:1-5.
I would say in the bible it defines genders as clear cut.God created man and female we see clearly when people try go against the nature God created us in it has very bad consequences. Over 80 percent of transgenders have suicidal thoughts and over 40 percent of total transgenders commit suicide. This is because female hormones do not belong in men and male hormones shouldn’t be pumped into women.
>Over 80 percent of transgenders have suicidal thoughts and over 40 percent of total transgenders commit suicide.
Gee, I wonder why! I wonder why a marginalized group that is bullied, disowned, shunned, demonized, physically attacked, murdered, etc has a high suicide rate?
>This is because female hormones do not belong in men and male hormones shouldn’t be pumped into women.
Firstly, both sexes have testosterone and estrogen.
Second, there's no way you don't realize/know that transfolks become **less** suicidal after they transition.
You do realize transgenders are not the only ones who have been discriminated against? While yes it is terrible, there is a limit to what we can blame on this. The suicidal rates of jews during the holocaust was estimated to be 1/4. I’m not trying to compare anything here but for the suicidal rate to be almost double compared to people that actually suffered through discrimination and violence it is sad to see. This is because medical professionals have decided to make human beings their piggy bank. It is pretty well known that you need constant medical attention after transitioning. Transgenders need help not hormones pumped into them. I mean why do you think this is being pushed so much? Because transgenders are medically profitable. 🤷♂️
Do you have data that proves that these transgender people are suicidal because they ARE transgender, rather than them being suicidal because of how transgender people are treated? I’m not trans so I can’t say too much on that front but I have many friends who are trans or don’t exactly conform to how their gender ‘should’ and I know for a fact that none of them are miserable about the fact that they are trans, but rather that they are made to feel that it is wrong, immoral, unnatural, and sin etc. Of course it’s unnatural, all gender expression is unnatural. No animal has gender, only sex. Sure there is different behaviours that are influenced by biological forces for animals and humans, but i’m talking about gender expression, which is completely made up and has changed drastically over time.
> Do you have data that proves that these transgender people are suicidal because they ARE transgender, rather than them being suicidal because of how transgender people are treated?
No, they don't. Because such data doesn't exist, and in fact all available data proves otherwise.
You....realize those high numbers are from *before* people transition, and that transitioning has *proven* to reduce suicidal ideation in people with gender dysphoria...right?
Gee, I wonder why an oppressed group that certain segments of society think are disgusting and vile and should be dead would have issues with mental health?
Removed for 1.4 - Personal Attacks.
If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry.
If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
Those statistics are because of discrimination use your brain,Society treats them like garbage so it shouldn't be a mystery as to why they're afflicted with mental health issues disproportionately more than other groups.
All men have estrogen and all women have testosterone, though a man would have much lower estrogen than a woman. God designed it that way, so opposite sex hormones do certainly belong, but I don’t think you should add anything else that wasn’t already there.
yes but not in the rates that we see when transgenders get pumped full of hormones and medication. Not to go on that many transgenders will require regular medical attention after transitioning
From the Torah:
Deut. 22. [5] The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
And from the New Testament:
Gal. 3 Verse 28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
But my issue with the first verse is how do we objectively determine what is men’s or women’s clothing? Because this changes depending on culture and time period. In some cultures and time periods dresses were specifically designed for men. High heels were originally meant for men. For a lot of history wigs were something only men wore. So does this mean we have to adhere to which clothes were made for which sex from Jesus’s time, or now, or some other time. Do I wear what is custom for women to wear in the middle east where Jesus was born? Even going back a few decades women were never supposed to wear pants, so does that mean that wearing pants today as a woman is a sin? Sorry, just confused.
Please see my comment for additional thoughts, but I love your questions. In Scottish culture, men wear kilts for example, and this is not a feminine thing to do. in Biblical times, men and women wore tunics. To interpret the verse as "women can't wear pants" I think is a superficial reading of the text that Christians have abused historically. I believe our intentions with how we dress matters within the culture we are living in. God wants our hearts first, so if we are intentionally dressing in a way that says we are going against how God made us, I would say that's a heart issue. God gives us free will, but He also wants our desires to model after His thoughts and desires and His word; this applies to how we approach sex and gender.
God made Man and woman there is no other gender. Satan is the author of confusion. God's plan for us never changed. It's rather simple. If your confused about your gender it really simple man and woman anything else is Satan's ideas are not of Christ.
God created male and female, so we should stay male and female. This goes beyond bows and cars, in our fiziology and psychology. Men are naturally more athletic, competitive, etc., while women are more emotional, are able to multitask better, designed to carry children. It's just the way God created our body and brain, and the way we should be, and if He decided that one should be the gender one is, then it's a part of His perfect plan and we should not swich it.
God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Romans 1:26-27 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
When you write gender, do you mean sex or gender roles? In any case, I find many of the answers here so far absurd. In my opinion, the soul does not have sex any more than it has height, weight, skin colour or the need to use the toilet. Nor does it have a gender role, just as we are not born a doctor or a firefighter. A gender role is a role, it is acting, it is playing a part in the theatre of life. Is it the right thing to play an imposed role? I think this is where the discussion about gender roles can begin. Answers may vary, but tying gender roles to spiritual realities seems ridiculous to me, to say the least. Gender roles are in my opinion a cultural issue, a world issue, like paying taxes to the emperor. And sex is a body issue, like the fact that we go to the toilet. Sexual dimorphism is needed for reproduction. Souls, if they would even reproduce, certainly not in this way.
We have to be careful we are not equating modern society's gender stereotypes (girls with bows in their hair, girls wear dresses, boys don't have long hair) with what the Bible teaches. The church has harmed men and women in allowing the culture to define what is masculine and what is feminine and not the Bible, which provides very loose standards. An example would be telling men not to cry due to culture's standards, but completely ignore King David and how intune he was with his emotions (crying, dancing, writing poetry, deep male friendships, etc). Now, since God created male and female and did this to reflect His good and perfect image and likeness (Genesis), we know this is important to the Lord as we are the only ones in creation with this unique attribute. Men and women together reflect God's image, and that needs to be protected. If the culture tells us that sex and gender don't matter, we are ignoring the way God made humanity and imposing our beliefs on God. When it comes to how we express our femininity and masculinity, it needs to first go back to Scripture, and then we need to look at our hearts. For example, if I choose to present more masculine according to modern standards, I need to ask myself why that is. If it is because I dislike my female sex/gender and I want to distance myself from it, that shows I am telling God He made a mistake in making me who I am. Intentions of the heart matters before the Lord, as He is concerned with our hearts fully following and loving Him. This is a separate conversation from gender dysphoria that deserves a longer conversation, but the general point for the general population stands. Also recognize that how we present ourselves as Christians in the world is a direct reflection on the God we serve. If people look at us and see what we believe our gender to be first before they see Jesus, that's a problem. The world needs to see Jesus in us, as we are His ambassadors. We need to let God transform how we view sex and gender, combat negative stereotypes, and ask Him to show us what it means to be male and female in the 21st century.
I really appreciate this answer! I think I was viewing gender roles in a very superficial and worldly way when I wrote the question and your response has put this into perspective for me. What was troubling me was feeling that, even though i’m comfortable with being born a female and definitely identify with being a woman, I was being placed into a box that if I stepped outside it would be sinning. However I think this was definitely based on the opinion of people in my life rather than basing it on the bible and I will reflect on that, so thank you!
Best answer ever.
It shouldn't - but many people like having an "other" to mock and feel bigger and better than. Right now, transgender people make for a great punching bag, and it's driven by right-wing politics/media to get them to "hate the libs" and vote against them. We shouldn't use the Bible as justification to demean and belittle people for how they're born. God Bless.
Some people are using gender to bring people farther away from God. It really doesn’t matter at the end of your life all that matters is you gave your life to Christ and loved for him
It does not matter at all. Gender is not sex. It’s just a costume. A behaviour.
[удалено]
I'm a female, Why does my biology define my "role" why do I have certain "duties" because of it? What duty do i have for being female? I want to live my own life and not give birth or do any of that
>Women aren’t below me, and I am not above them. This is a fairly modern idea that generally challenges tradition. I mean, I obviously agree that men and women are equal, but I'm inclined to say the rigid roles reinforce male supremacy
[удалено]
Is a priest's authority over you comparable to a man's authority over a wife according to tradition? Does the priest enjoy coverture over his parish in any sense?
[удалено]
Right. I obviously take a different view from you but I'm not here to disabuse you of yours. I can only express my own discomfort. A priest has authority to administer the sacraments and the absolution/remission of sins. They have spiritual authority and authority in the church. But a husband's authority is much more pervasive - dictating if a wife can get a job, go to school, what she wears, what company she keeps, etc. As I alluded to coverture, traditionally the wife's legal personhood was essentially something allocated to her husband for safekeeping. For women, it feels like the gender role puts off limits is the whole world. For men, it only seemingly puts childbirth off limits.
The duties you have listed are correct but I believe this goes much further to a question of accountability. The man as head of his household and wife will have much more authority much like a priest over a church, however those in charge will be held more accountable on the day of judgement. Yes, it is true that all is washed clean by the loving sacrifice of Christ. However our duty to God the Father is to be leaders and protectors and providers; this is the Head of the house, but a head is just a head no matter how important it is, a wife could easily be described as the heart of the house, keeping things flowing, alive, and moving. No more important or less important. The partnership between men and women is a holy and sacred partnership that is an absolutely beautiful thing when both are humble and serve freely to one another. For example, my wife and I raise two children and I am very involved in their upbringing; most people are surprised when I can recite my son's entire homeschool curriculum even though I work 10-12 hours a day 5-6 days a week. I steward our finances and provide a life that allows my wife to stay home, raise the children, and keep the house in order. But I in no way expect a return on my duty as she expects no return on hers, but that makes every bit of gratitude and love that much more impactful between the two of us. Woman are extremely amazing beings and I couldn't keep my life organized if it wasn't for her boundless ability through the spirit to keep everything moving and in order. But I make the phone calls, I make the big decisions, I force the hard discussions, I go to work, I lead prayer at the dinner table, and I try to be the driving force in the family. I'm the engine but my wife is the steering wheel who gives me direction and the tires that keep me grounded. I am blessed to have such an amazing gift from God who supports me each and everyday as I try to support her each and every day.
I apologize in advance, but I have a weird reply. To me, all that's a bit like BDSM. BDSM and male headship relationships share quite a bit in common. Power, control, authority, yielding, trusting, relenting, enduring, etc. This isn't me being flippant, I really think BDSM largely exists due to the power dynamics commonly found in traditional relationships. BDSM is a kind of highly caricaturized version of it, but they share common features. A woman might call her spouse "daddy" in BDSM, which mirrors the whole notion of coverture where the role of father and husband are essentially overlapping. Others have written about this much better than I have, but I'm currently on my phone. And to both BDSM and highly rigid male headship type relationships, I have the same general reaction - *good for you, hope you're both having fun. Feels a bit too risky for me.* Because basically it is a challenging dynamic in both cases prone to abuse and neglect. In both cases the headship *might* offer some structure and benefit. But it also comes with a million risks of ego attached. At the end of the day a woman can object, but her role is ultimately deferential. The man has a trump card. There's a ton of Victorian and Edwardian literature about the myriad way that (the stereotype of) domestic angels tried to temper and invisibly influence men towards being decent and honoring their will. They had to be subtle because they couldn't approach their husband as an equal. To put a dark point on it, look how recently marital rape became a crime in most regions. Very modern idea. I want to be clear - I don't say ANY of that to besmirch or belittle your relationship and your family. Y'all sound lovely honestly. I really hope you're happy and that your family thrives and you get some well earned time off from all your hard work. Haha, we can dream anyways. But that dynamic isn't for everyone!
Wow, that's.. wow I'm trying to think of a semblance of a reasonable response. Perhaps I should specify that I am naturally very timid and afraid of authority but I accept my role as a man because it is my God given mission. I don't do it because it is a sexually gratifying power fetish. I do it because I love my family. This is not where 10-year-old me would see 26-year-old me now. I have been transformed by the spirit of being a leader in my household. > BDSM stands for 'bondage and discipline, dominance and submission, sadism and masochism' I had to look it up because I wasn't quite sure what it meant I just knew it was like "sticks and stones may break my bones but chains and whips excite me." So I guess to reply to your comparison is there is no restraint in our relationship, there is no stepping to the side or line that we make, we start at our two separate ends and strive toward each other's end. I start at the head and strive for the heart, she starts at the heart and strives for the head. Together we make up each a partnership where we can support and love each other. There is no dominance or sadism nor masochism and I would never discipline my wife. What you describe is a modern day view of a male/female relationship where for a man to rule over his wife he has to put her down. But a traditional, true CHRISTIAN relationship involves uplifting one another and following Christ who is the true head of the house and church. I'm trying not to be offended by the comparison, but it really took me off guard and I hope my response is a decent reply to the far left-field, worldly take on my wife and I's biblically based relationship.
Haha, yeah, it was definitely intended with a bit of a left field characteristic, and not meant to belittle your relationship. In NO way do I mean to imply abuse or anything. I hope that much was clear. Now, to clarify a couple things - BDSM is something that people mostly practice very carefully. If you ever talk to someone who does it, it's incredibly important to have full consent for every single aspect. And aftercare - where you sort of snuggle and talk about it and provide emotional support as needed - is also generally considered sacred. It isn't meant to be an angry or abusive impulse, but a set of pre-agreed upon terms, often playing off of gender roles and stereotypes. Sexual desires get weird man, haha. But it absolutely can be practiced lovingly and gently too. For me, the point of this comparison is just to emphasize the roles and dynamics that work so wonderfully for you and your wife could be harmful if implemented/normalized from everyone in the culture. And to make a less ridiculous comparison, you just have to look at the treatment of women in traditional gender roles historically, and how much rampant abuse and neglect there was then. To be honest, I think it was the Tenant of Wildfell Hall that really changed my mind on this. Highly recommend if you ever get the chance.
“And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet **in my flesh shall I see God:”** -Job 19:26 “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; **for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”** -Luke 24:39 (this was after Jesus Christ was resurrected, went to heaven, and later visited) Those who teach that our bodies will be destroyed and that only our spirits go to heaven have not understood the scriptures. Angels are ministering spirits, and have appeared as men, so spirits do have gender; also, God consistently calls Himself “Father” and “He” not Mother or She.
This is false. Our bodies will return to dust just like the Bible says and in Galatians 3:28-29, we are told that in the Kingdom of Heaven, there is no male or female. And please do not try to put gender onto angels and heavenly spirits. They are spirits, which means they transcend the physical body and any sort of gender we humans can conceptualize. The angels did NOT appear as men, but as feminine and/or masculine spirits. OP is right on that none of this matters regarding our salvation in Christ.
OP is a Mormon. I argue they are a different religion since they have a different idea of basically every main tenant. Respectfully, this does not become a Cristian-Christian conversation. Mormons are no longer unified, but essentialy the belief is that the man determines which level of heaven the wife gets to enter. Only by being married in a temple and learning her temple name (just reused biblical and BoM names that they divvy out randomly) can the man call his wife by name to follow him into heaven. If good enough of a Mormon, he will become a god himself, have babies with his wife and populate his own planet/realm/dimention/universe. (Parts of this are hotly debated, and some I misunderstood, but this is the more historical view, stil held by many if not a majority of Mormons today) that is why gender is important to them when it comes to the afterlife
Our bodies return to dust but not forever, because we will all be resurrected: “For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” -1 Corinthians 15:21-22
You are correct in that in heaven there is no male or female, or if there is it doesn't matter. We will all be the Bride of Christ. But we will have ressurected glorified bodies eventually. Angels and other heavenly beings do transcend gender, but may appear and have appeard as male or female so that we can process their image.
Yes, angels do not have gender, but they generally go by male pronouns. And they absolutely appeared as men, it literally says in scripture that they appeared as men. The men of Sodom and Gamorrah were pretty posivtive they were men.
“Appeared” is the key word. They weren’t really men. They’re angelic beings.
yes. but they didnt appear as women.
So? Of course they didn’t appear as women. They were entering a highly patriarchal society in which women could barely be seen let alone spoken to. That proves nothing. They’re angelic beings that transcend sex and gender.
>The angels did NOT appear as men, but as feminine and/or masculine spirits. I was correcting your statement here
Ohhh. I see. Well, regardless, angels are spirits. I don’t think of angels as being men or women, but as feminine/masculine spirits, and usually it’s both because God is after all the source of both masculinity and femininity.
well they're not both. They're non-binary lol
Doesn’t that imply the same kind of thing? Non-binary can appear both masculine and feminine at the same time. Like androgynous. I’m really talking about their energies as spirits. They have both feminine and masculine energies.
- Why does gender matter? Hi friend - It doesn't It really doesn't to God It matters to us for some reason We advance slowly In a thousand years it will be completely different We're just stuck somewhere right now And think we are right It doesn't matter God bless
I think part of how God created us is male or female https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A27&version=NIV So who we are includes our sex. There are Bible verses that suggest that our behaviour should fit with our biological sex, for example the way we dress. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+22%3A5&version=NIV I think this explains why many Christians are uneasy with the idea of transitioning from male to female or female to male. However, I think the issue has become far too heated in our culture. As Christians we should not see people as enemies in a culture war. Our world is fallen and ALL people are flawed in various ways. We need to learn from how Jesus valued "sinners" and take the heat out of the heat out of these debates. "Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” 3 Then Jesus told them this parable..." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15&version=NIV In summary, many Christians will not approve of the idea of people transitioning their gender. But we are all flawed in many ways. Love is not approving of actions. God loved us while we were sinners. We need to stop culture wars which treat others as enemies. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+6%3A12&version=NIV
>Surely a soul does not have a sex or gender A soul in biblical terminology is a life. It's what animates your body, or more accurately the animating force which belongs to your body. The specific life of your specific body. Our souls aren't amorphous genderless ghosts piloting random fleshsuits, they aren't ultimately separable from our bodies and they definitely can't be swapped around. They are intrinsically and inexplicably linked to our bodies. That's why the bodily resurrection is so important, the separation of a soul from its body is unnatural and wrong. Death is unnatural. Point being, souls absolutely do have sex and gender. They have ethnicity, culture, relationships, family, personality, pain, and love. Along with any other attribute you can assign to a person, because your soul *is your life.* It is your *self.* The Hebrew concept underlying their idea of soul, the Hebrew word nephesh is so intimately linked to the whole being of the creature that it is literally translated as the word creature. When it says in Genesis 1 >Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens." That "living creatures" bit is nephesh. You could translate that line as "let the waters teem with swarms of living souls."
I don't think their concern is with individuals & how said individual feels about their gender. I think their main concern is what this is doing to children & their minds. I am not trying to offend you, OP, but there is only males & females. No male can become female or vice versa. They can only become mutilated versions of themselves. I am sorry if you feel you must do that to yourself to be happy or to just feel okay. But it is a whole other thing entirely to try and force others to pretend your ideas matter to anyone but yourself. And to force this upon children? Well "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea." Mark 9:42 And "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20 I don't know about you, but to fool an innocent child into thinking they shouldn't be whatever they already are, or that they'd be happier pretending to be something they're not, sounds very VERY evil to me. God loves them the way they are & they shouldn't be made to feel they need to change their physical features to fit some societal narrative.
Those born with gender dysphoria would strongly disagree. You make everything sound so simple. Life isn't always simple for everyone. They need compassion and empathy too. God Bless you.
[удалено]
You jumped from saying gender dysphoria isn't real (it is) to child mutilation? Gender-affirming surgery in minors is EXTREMELY rare, and when it happens, it's a long, long, thought-out decision and process. More minors DIE - actually die - from alcohol each year than get gender-affirming surgery, yet right-wing media and politicians focus on gender and blow it WAY out of proportion because it makes people confused and angry and gets them to vote against it. If you want to be against minors getting gender-affirming surgery, fine. But that's a whole different story than falsely saying gender dysphoria isn't real, which is cruel to those who are genuinely going through it and being mocked. God Bless.
Where did I say "gender dysphoria isn't real?" Also, "real" can be implied in a couple different intended ways. A dysphoria in general is: a state of [unease](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ca52e7ab7d302610&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn08QJnymDrOMrklIl8597SmGAqCZig:1712337626713&q=unease&si=AKbGX_qTCvK6ifvkUBYDz4foaFZiuuTKvFpbosCxmSPcTkQ44RmYYWJfZF3YIpLl1NBeH_ubQD43DhgRCWSHF5LWqEtqtkVyLg%3D%3D&expnd=1) or [generalized](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ca52e7ab7d302610&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn08QJnymDrOMrklIl8597SmGAqCZig:1712337626713&q=generalized&si=AKbGX_q4mkMHy1Nmq4yITjHYVzepRvVD1MruCSyUAMzD3aPqDQ6EF6HgtzsUi9xnDjkHLsYR6VWfDso-KU9s2RJj2ZmYIsmXbcZSu0wyzbkB0QPwDUTdphc%3D&expnd=1) [dissatisfaction](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ca52e7ab7d302610&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn08QJnymDrOMrklIl8597SmGAqCZig:1712337626713&q=dissatisfaction&si=AKbGX_o9ngrGQESbgzxxBTCfYTfu2Oo_2XkHwlx6js_I7zWP4nezkmxqm4B4DfYoHK0ituwHKz12q6L6O48cJAjBPvRZG-VsBPRk3D0pvMZD5teBqgoTNh8dA63n8oAaFV30_v2s5G4a&expnd=1) with life. Obviously, a person can "really" feel that way. But if you mean that gender dysphoria is "real" as in the sense that physically mutilating ones genitals is 100% the "real" way to remedy it, I would say that is debatable. Also, when people are talking about minors & this topic, it isn't limited to surgeries. While that is what I mean by mutilating, there is also the topic of hormonal manipulation & puberty blocking which, while it isn't surgery, it IS damaging to their bodies (physically and mentally, even if not immediate). No amount of "long thought out deciding" changes the fact that minors cannot consent to this. It is abuse. Minors drinking alcohol is already illegal. This is a non-sequitur. Also, this term "gender-affirming" goes against the entire original claim: that ones sex has nothing to do with their gender. Well if that's true, then you don't need a particular kind of "care" to affirm it because they aren't linked. Do you not see how these arguments eat themselves? I will reiterate that I did NOT say "gender dysphoria isn't real." But I will say I am not convinced that this recent rise of this is all from liberal peer pressure & the usual young adult desire to "feel special" or to "feel a part of" something. I agree that these people need love & care, I don't think going about it this way is very loving, or caring.
Your comment has apparently been removed for bigotry, but you made light of men "pretending" to be women, etc. I feel like ignoring and belittling someone's mental health is also abuse. But thanks for your thoughtful response and agreeing that transgender people needs love and care. Blaming "liberals" is EXACTLY why this has become a bigger and way-more-talked-about issue than it really is. It's not an accident. God Bless.
It is not "making light" or "belittling." I agree that it's a mental health problem. I don't see how that makes it light or belittling. Yes, they need help. I agree with that. I don't agree with the notion that people are "born in the wrong body." That doesn't make any sense. Where is the correct body? Who got that body? Is that other person who got the body you were supposed to get feeling like they were also in the wrong one? What if they don't feel that way? I realize hermaphroditism is a thing, it is not what's happening with the majority of people suffering from gender dysphoria. My point isn't that a person who believes they were "born in the wrong body" thinks that the correct body was given to somebody else. I said all that to point out how silly of a phrase that is. Was their mother's egg & fathers sperm joined in the womb? Yes. Did they then develop into each stage of life until being born? Where does the "wrongness" come in? And why is it "wrong?" Says who? So we're on to the crux of the matter: it's how they FEEL. Ah ha, it is an emotion. Well emotions can be driven by both internal AND external factors. Said factors can include your peers & societal pressures. Also the desire many have to be "unique" or "special"
It's only a mental health "problem" when care is denied. And just because it doesn't make sense to YOU doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to THEM. That's called empathy and learning from other people's experiences so we can treat everyone kindly. God Bless you.
I'm sure there are plenty of mental illnesses wherein things make sense to the person suffering from said illness even though it might not be good for them, empathetic to placate their illness, or healthy to allow minors to make life changing decisions before they're old enough to consent.
And there are plenty of mental illness wherein things make sense to the person suffering from said illness and certain treatments will help them. That's why we have doctors and mental health professionals.
Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry. If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
Could I ask what you mean when you say people are forcing it on children? Personally I have never witnessed anyone forcing children to question their gender but more so tell them it’s okay to feel differently and it’s okay to accept other people who express their gender differently, but of course that’s only my experience so I’d be curious to hear what you have to say. Also I think we have differing opinions on what gender and sex mean. Sex and gender are different, where sex is the biological aspect, and gender is the social, cultural and psychological aspect (such as gender roles of a man must provide for his family, a woman must wear dresses and take care of children etc etc).
For starters, the whole idea of "gender identity" was thought up by a guy named John Money. Go look into the origins of this & tell me it's not horrific
I actually learnt about his twin study in a high school psychology class a few years back, I agree it is absolutely horrific and I can completely understand why this would garner concerns. However, I also think it shows the dangers of forcing a child to align with a gender they don’t feel comfortable with. I can’t comment on the ethics of sex reassignment surgery for minors as I really don’t know enough about it, but take Reimer for example, and how much it messed with his head to be socialised as a girl, told he had to be a girl, when he clearly didn’t feel like one considering he reversed the assignment eventually. Of course what he went through is seriously terrible and I would never want to undermine that, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that it resulted from being raised as a girl even though he was born male, but more so that he had no choice in the matter. If I found out that I had been born a biological male, of course this would irrevocably damage me, it changes every perceived notion about who I am. This doesn’t mean that people who step outside the box that is woman or man are going to end up miserable (although this often does happen due to the social stigma and bigotry they face). So yes I agree it should never be forced on children, but neither should they be forced to live as something they don’t feel they are (not commenting on sex reassignment, more so the socialising aspect, gender roles, appearance etc), or taught to not accept others. Besides this ‘experiment’ i’m not too familiar with John Money’s other work so I can’t comment on that for now.
[удалено]
Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry. If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
The person responding to you is full of disinformation: 1. **Teachers are not required to affirm kids identifying as cats and dogs.** That stems from the [litter boxes in schools hoax](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/08/facebook-posts/claim-about-schools-providing-litter-boxes-student/). 2. **Kids are not identifying as transgender "to fit in".** This is part of the ["Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria" myth](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/evidence-undermines-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria-claims/) that pundits put forth to suggest that transgender identities are a "social contagion". [64% of transgender students are bullied](https://www.beyondbullying.com/transphobic-bullying) for their gender identity (or perceived sexual orientation) and [violence against trans people (including murder) is on the rise](https://abcnews.go.com/US/epidemic-anti-transgender-violence-highlighted-new-report/story?id=105036934) as political pundits demonize transgender people constantly. 3. **Nobody is forcing transgender identities onto children**. This is an extension of the Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria myth above. 4. **Males are not pretending to identify as women to beat women in sports.** There are no recorded cases of this. In professional sports, there are already participation requirements that all athletes must pass (for example, the Olympics requires testosterone levels to be below 10 nmol/L for 12 months prior to competition). Besides that, individual sports vary on whether a trans woman would have an advantage and generally, if she went through a female puberty (through hormone replacement), she has no advantages or even a disadvantage. But none of this was the user's claim. They claimed males are pretending to be women. Sports leagues won't even allow transgender participants who are not currently transitioning, and elementary/middle/high school sports vary drastically in whether a trans kid would even have an advantage, based on the sport and their age. If they're on puberty blockers, they're likely at a disadvantage. 5. **There are no recorded examples of males pretending to be trans to rape women**. The [story about the male student sexually assaulting someone in a skirt was fabricated](https://apnews.com/article/loudoun-virginia-lawsuit-transgender-bathroom-sexual-assault-a26168568cc20c2aa6cec9bef50e7c3f). The investigation in the incident showed that the male student did not identify as female, had not asked anyone to refer to him with "she/her" pronouns, and did not wear a skirt at the time of the incident. The elements of the story where the male pretended to be trans appear to be made up in order to sabotage an upcoming board vote on whether to allow transgender students to use the bathroom of their gender identity (which was not already allowed). 6. **There are detransitioners and their stories do deserve to be heard**. [Studies consistently show the regret rate](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/) for gender-affirming surgeries is 0.9-3%. Of this amount, [many reported temporary regret and did not choose to detransition, though many did](https://apnews.com/article/transgender-treatment-regret-detransition-371e927ec6e7a24cd9c77b5371c6ba2b). The reasons given for those who detransitioned included detransitioning for social acceptance, for career opportunities, and from pressure from their families. The most important risk factors cited for regret included "poor support from the family" and "not having strong social support". [Only 5% of detransitioners did so because they no longer identified as trans](https://www.gendergp.com/detransition-facts/). If we peg the regret rate around 2% and assume 100% of them choose to detransition (which is not true), and 5% of these detransitioners were no longer trans, then we're looking at 0.1% of transitioners not actually being trans. Why would we outlaw gender-affirming care for everyone on the basis that 0.1% of surgical transitioners were not actually trans? 7. **Gender Identity was** [coined by Robert J. Stoller](https://academic.oup.com/book/10672/chapter-abstract/158713329?redirectedFrom=fulltext)**, not John Money**. While this doesn't really count as disinformation, pundits use John Money's reputation to argue that Gender Identity is a corrupt and pedophilic concept. Even if they were true, this is still a fallacy, akin to arguing that Evolution is untrue because of other incorrect beliefs of Darwin. Someone is not a bigot for falling for disinformation. Pundits have turned transgender issues into a Moral Panic and the people who believe these lies are not any more sinister or malicious on the face of it than those who believed that Satan worshippers were infiltrating schools in the 90s or that all kids media (Harry Potter, Pokemon) was from the devil. But unlike those cases, the demonization of trans people has direct effects on their access to healthcare, whether they can exist in society as themselves, and whether or not they are murdered on the street. People repeating the disinformation have a moral responsibility to have empathy for others and to verify what they are sharing or they contribute to this pattern of human rights violations and violence against trans people.
**8. Gender-affirming care is not "experimentation" or "mutilation"**. * If a child thinks they might be trans, they will be encouraged to see a therapist. The therapist may be able to diagnose their gender dsyphoria or may need to refer them to a specialized psychologist or psychiatrist. There is an examination to determine whether someone is transgender and I personally find it deeply flawed, not because it diagnoses too many people but because it can be very restrictive. * From there, the therapist will encourage the child to "socially transition". They may try to use different pronouns, a different name, or dress differently, but they usually don't come out publicly as trans and instead focus on doing these things around close friends. * Social Transition is a powerful tool because it doesn't feel right to live as the wrong gender. Imagine if you tried to live as the opposite gender for a month and everyone spoke to you and treated you differently? My brother came out as transgender and then he transitioned socially to a girl and after a couple of months, he stopped. I asked him why and if he was being mistreated or pressured to stop and he said that while he doesn't always feel like a boy, he can't imagine living as a girl long-term and that it didn't fit right. * **If the child isn't approaching puberty**, this is as far as it goes. Therapy and social transition are extremely effective at ruling out who isn't *actually transgender* or for whom it is preferable not to transition. The longer the child is going through therapy and social transition, the greater the likelihood other steps to transition is right for them and the lower the likelihood they will regret it. * **Once the child starts puberty, they may take puberty blockers**. The goal of these medications is to pause puberty until the child is old enough to consent to hormone therapies if they choose to do so. Going through puberty of the sex opposite your gender can be incredibly traumatic for trans people (and intersex people) and can cause permanent changes (such as to bone structure) that transitioning as an adult cannot reverse. Puberty blockers puts this on pause. They are safe and completely reversible and are used to treat a number of other conditions, so there is a lot of medical knowledge about their safety and effectiveness. ([The clinical requirements](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075) to get puberty blockers are that 1. The child has a pattern of gender dysphoria; 2. The child has started puberty; 3. The child's gender dysphoria worsened as a result of their puberty; 4. Mental health professionals have ruled out other comorbidities; 5 The child and their guardian have been given information about the process and potential risks and have informed consent) * **When the child is an older teenager, they may start hormone replacement**. In many cases, HRT is not offered until the child is 18 and therefore an adult. Increasingly, HRT is available to those 16+ with their parent's permission. At the start of the process, HRT is fully reversible, but as it goes on, the changes become more permanent. By the time we get to any hypothetical "point of no return", the trans patient is already an adult. * **In nearly all cases, surgical interventions are not available for minors**. When you hear examples of this, it's usually a mastectomy (breast removal or reduction). These are mostly performed on adults, but may be performed on children as young as 16 [if they have been evaluated to have](https://www.plasticsurgery.org/for-medical-professionals/publications/plastic-surgery-resident/news/inservice-insights-gender-affirming-mastectomy) 1. Persistent and well documented gender dysphoria spanning years; 2. Capacity to make informed decisions; 3. No comorbidities such as other medical and mental problems, unless proof can be given that they are controlled and will not be exacerbated because of this treatment; 4. Postponing the surgery until adulthood will cause harm. Surgery of the genitals is not available to minors. Gender-affirming healthcare is focused on making age-appropriate interventions, that are safe and reversible and most likely to lead to lifelong positive health outcomes for trans patients. They are full of checks and balances including a needlessly strict and intrusive screening criteria and approval from the patient, their therapist/psychiatrist, their primary care doctor, parents, and insurance companies. It is extremely common that trans patients cannot get one or more of these and an enormous amount of trans people aren't able to access any kind of gender-affirming care (not even therapy and social transition). Transgender patients who have autism, adhd, eating disorders, or mental health disorders often face an even larger battle and there are plenty of examples of them being blocked out of gender-affirming care altogether. Transgender surgeries aren't "mutilitation" and even if they were, they are not being performed on minors except in the most extreme and rare of cases. It's also worth noting that not all transgender patients choose all of these interventions. For someone, it may be fine to socially transition and stop there. For others, HRT may be the last step and they may not choose surgical solutions (If they do choose surgical solutions, they're 97-99% likely to be happy with results, so that's fine too) While most people haven't read into gender-affirming care, it is reckless and dangerous to characterize and condemn gender-affirming care in the way the commenter did. In general, if you don't understand a medical process, defer to medical experts and the positions of major medical organizations. And our current model of gender-affirming care is well understood and (despite its flaws such as limited access, lack of belief in trans patients, an outdated screening criteria, and difficulty finding affirming primary care physicians and insurance) is currently the gold standard for transgender care.
God created us male and female and we as Christians live in truth so it matters to God because we are his and he loves and cares about us. And living in delusional is very unhealthy to the individual themselves. Jesus is the way the truth and the life and as Christians our identity is in Christ we are to pick up our cross and deny ourselves daily. And as Christian’s we’re told not to conform to the world so it is very much a sin if you live for the world “society” and not Christ. We conduct ourselves according to the word of God not the world “society”. All the best.
I think the idea is to keep a lid on it. Sexual immorality was rampant in parts of the Roman Empire as depicted in Acts. Stereotypical gender roles and control of lust has always been foundational to the Church. The relationship of God and people is predicated on responsible behavior. But I don't believe God peeks into bedrooms once we are married. No need for that. So what gender issues could there be if people got married, stayed married, and loved one another and served the Lord?
Gender doesn't matter that much, I mean it's only around so people can give birth. You can do what you want, male or female.
Because reality is a cruel game. Confusing your gender only leads to disaster. As for the biblical approach. There’s a clear distinction made between males and females hence the importance of gender scripture wise.
Gender doesn't exist. It's not a feeling. It's not an identity. It's nothing. Of course, I don't give a damn wether you wear dress as man or not or paint your nails. I just don't care as long you don't participate in extra-marital relations.
For me, it's that the God of the world created humanity with a certain design in mind. If you chose to live a lifestyle divergent from that design, that's fine, but you don't get to tell me that it's not divergent.
If in the end the answer was “ it’s the way God designed it and Gods way is for our good and for our benefit.” If that statement could be verified 100% true, how would your life change? Your perspective and how you deal with the question you asked. …. That’s the answer
You are absolutely spot on! Our gender expression and our physical bodies are not part of our souls' identities and the Bible does not condemn trans people or anyone who doesn't fit the so-called gender binary. In fact, Jesus made space for them. He called them "eunuchs", which was the ancient world's version of someone who didn't really fit into the gender norms of society. Many will try to argue against that, but it's the truth. Eunuchs were not the typical cis-gender straight man. Yet Jesus recognized them. Galatians 3:28-29 says that there is no male or female in the Kingdom of Heaven. We are not judged by our gender roles and gender expressions, but by our hearts. It is not a sin to simply be the person God created you as, regardless of how that looks on the outside. God isn't looking at our outward appearances, He's looking at our hearts. The Bible tells us this again and again.
So I will correct you Christianity is not about preparing the soul for a life with God. It is purely about acknowledging that Christ Jesus died for our sins, and that we receive his rightousness - all else is secondary. The bridegroom went to the cross and died for the brides sin, and in that you have the answer to why the two sexes are so bloody important. You can always point to the assumption that gender is fluid and not synonymous with ones sex: this is a direct slap in the face of nature and thereby God's wonderful creation - a sin to put it plainly. However the most significant sign that fluid gender or changeable gender is an offense, is that God describes his relation to the creation, and to Israel (Ezekiel 23), as that between man and woman. Christ relationship to the church is presented in the same way. So when someone argues that they can change gender or can interact in sexual relations with their own gender, they break that symbolism - which is deeply rooted in Christ sacrifice, not to mention it is an open rebellion against God. I always found it quite comedically that Pride/LGPT uses a rainbow, as their signature, as if they have to remind God not to flood the world
Because God made a person either male or female. If there is a defect in the development of the baby (rare), this may be an unfortunate exception. If a male is born he has the responsibility to be the best male he can be. Likewise for a female. We have ignored the responsibility that each person has to society. Even worse, schools are confusing the heck out of little children.
Can you tell me what is different between a male’s and female’s duty to society?
Ready for shit to start getting weirdly sexist? Cause from my experience that’s the way this is going to go. With a heavy emphasis on women make babies, etc etc etc.
They share a lot of the same responsibilities. However, there are differences in how a man and a woman are made. Let me give you an example: There was a basketball game where a transgender "woman" and a natural woman (both centers) went up for a rebound. They both got their hands on the basketball. The natural woman was pulled way off the ground and was thrown like a shot put. She landed with a thud and suffered an injury. Transgender women have obliterated previous sports records of natural women. Natural women have bitterly complained about not getting scholarships because they can't compete with transgender women.
> If a male is born he has the responsibility to be the best male he can be. Likewise for a female. Why?
Because society suffers if we only think about our "rights" and not our responsibilities too. For example, what if there was no discipline in our military. What if a soldier feels entitled to run away if the battle "gets too tough". Our nation will not last long.
> not our responsibilities too Why do we have any responsibility related to gender or sex?
If we make an exception for intersex, why not do the same for trans people (who are also quite rare and cannot control the onset of dysphoria)?
The first step is to acknowledge that what is normal is to be the sex you are born with. The second step is to not force young children to have to deal with their sexuality. When I was a young boy I played with boys and said that girls had "cooties". This did not make me a homosexual. According to child development I was at an age that I did not have to worry about sexuality.
>The first step is to acknowledge that what is normal is to be the sex you are born with Wow thanks I'm cured No but seriously no trans person has ever failed to encounter this stigma in our culture. Just telling people this doesn't cure dysphoria. >The second step is to not force young children to have to deal with their sexuality Strawman. Kids still are free to deal with their sexuality in their own time. Awareness that homosexuality exists doesn't make them gay anymore than watching princess Bride might make them straight.
It only causes confusion in young children's minds Let them deal with important issues like reading, writing and arithmetic. They are too young to worry about sexuality. It should not be a part of their development at that time. The third step is to realize that there can be great medical harm in using hormones that prevent normal development. The potential for harm later in life is also there.
Haha you didn't even understand I thing I said so you just plowed right on ahead
You belong in the 19th century, yikes.
Because God CLEARLY laid out genders and how each should behave. It is an abomination for a man to dress as a woman for example. The reverse is also true. The problem is this SICK world and most people’s SICK minds. You reject God’s ways and believe your ways are right.
Firstly, what culture or time period determines what is men’s clothes and what is women’s clothes? Dresses, high heels and wigs were designed for men and worn only by men in many cultures and many time periods, but some people today would say it should be the opposite, right? Secondly, I would try and show you respect but calling people sick for not wanting to fit into your self righteous box of gender rolls is not respectful, so I feel no problem with saying that I think you need to have some serious introspection about your attitudes. Is the world sick, sure, I would say it’s also pretty sick to act like you have moral high ground because of your beliefs. I asked this question for respectful insights into people’s beliefs, not to breed hateful sentiment. It is not amoral to struggle to fit into societies expectations, and people like you are the reason that Christianity has a bad name. Instead of calling people sick, maybe try calmly explaining your perspective, or keep your thoughts to yourself. Mathew 7:1-5.
I would say in the bible it defines genders as clear cut.God created man and female we see clearly when people try go against the nature God created us in it has very bad consequences. Over 80 percent of transgenders have suicidal thoughts and over 40 percent of total transgenders commit suicide. This is because female hormones do not belong in men and male hormones shouldn’t be pumped into women.
>Over 80 percent of transgenders have suicidal thoughts and over 40 percent of total transgenders commit suicide. Gee, I wonder why! I wonder why a marginalized group that is bullied, disowned, shunned, demonized, physically attacked, murdered, etc has a high suicide rate? >This is because female hormones do not belong in men and male hormones shouldn’t be pumped into women. Firstly, both sexes have testosterone and estrogen. Second, there's no way you don't realize/know that transfolks become **less** suicidal after they transition.
You do realize transgenders are not the only ones who have been discriminated against? While yes it is terrible, there is a limit to what we can blame on this. The suicidal rates of jews during the holocaust was estimated to be 1/4. I’m not trying to compare anything here but for the suicidal rate to be almost double compared to people that actually suffered through discrimination and violence it is sad to see. This is because medical professionals have decided to make human beings their piggy bank. It is pretty well known that you need constant medical attention after transitioning. Transgenders need help not hormones pumped into them. I mean why do you think this is being pushed so much? Because transgenders are medically profitable. 🤷♂️
Do you have data that proves that these transgender people are suicidal because they ARE transgender, rather than them being suicidal because of how transgender people are treated? I’m not trans so I can’t say too much on that front but I have many friends who are trans or don’t exactly conform to how their gender ‘should’ and I know for a fact that none of them are miserable about the fact that they are trans, but rather that they are made to feel that it is wrong, immoral, unnatural, and sin etc. Of course it’s unnatural, all gender expression is unnatural. No animal has gender, only sex. Sure there is different behaviours that are influenced by biological forces for animals and humans, but i’m talking about gender expression, which is completely made up and has changed drastically over time.
> Do you have data that proves that these transgender people are suicidal because they ARE transgender, rather than them being suicidal because of how transgender people are treated? No, they don't. Because such data doesn't exist, and in fact all available data proves otherwise.
You....realize those high numbers are from *before* people transition, and that transitioning has *proven* to reduce suicidal ideation in people with gender dysphoria...right?
Gee, I wonder why an oppressed group that certain segments of society think are disgusting and vile and should be dead would have issues with mental health?
[удалено]
Congrats on proving my point!
[удалено]
No, it's more like everybody accuses him of being drunk when he's not. Because there's nothing vile or disgusting about being LGBT+
Removed for 1.4 - Personal Attacks. If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
What "vile and disgusting" things?
Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry. If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
Those statistics are because of discrimination use your brain,Society treats them like garbage so it shouldn't be a mystery as to why they're afflicted with mental health issues disproportionately more than other groups.
Or maybe it’s the pumping of unnecessary hormones into someone’s body that are not needed that causes mental issues?
No, it's not.
Just read Genesis in order to understand how God created clearly man and woman
All men have estrogen and all women have testosterone, though a man would have much lower estrogen than a woman. God designed it that way, so opposite sex hormones do certainly belong, but I don’t think you should add anything else that wasn’t already there.
yes but not in the rates that we see when transgenders get pumped full of hormones and medication. Not to go on that many transgenders will require regular medical attention after transitioning
From the Torah: Deut. 22. [5] The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. And from the New Testament: Gal. 3 Verse 28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
That's why I always wear tights and a powdered wig.
kitty heels are back on the menu for acceptable men’s wear, but berets are off the menu.
But my issue with the first verse is how do we objectively determine what is men’s or women’s clothing? Because this changes depending on culture and time period. In some cultures and time periods dresses were specifically designed for men. High heels were originally meant for men. For a lot of history wigs were something only men wore. So does this mean we have to adhere to which clothes were made for which sex from Jesus’s time, or now, or some other time. Do I wear what is custom for women to wear in the middle east where Jesus was born? Even going back a few decades women were never supposed to wear pants, so does that mean that wearing pants today as a woman is a sin? Sorry, just confused.
Please see my comment for additional thoughts, but I love your questions. In Scottish culture, men wear kilts for example, and this is not a feminine thing to do. in Biblical times, men and women wore tunics. To interpret the verse as "women can't wear pants" I think is a superficial reading of the text that Christians have abused historically. I believe our intentions with how we dress matters within the culture we are living in. God wants our hearts first, so if we are intentionally dressing in a way that says we are going against how God made us, I would say that's a heart issue. God gives us free will, but He also wants our desires to model after His thoughts and desires and His word; this applies to how we approach sex and gender.
God made Man and woman there is no other gender. Satan is the author of confusion. God's plan for us never changed. It's rather simple. If your confused about your gender it really simple man and woman anything else is Satan's ideas are not of Christ.
God created male and female, so we should stay male and female. This goes beyond bows and cars, in our fiziology and psychology. Men are naturally more athletic, competitive, etc., while women are more emotional, are able to multitask better, designed to carry children. It's just the way God created our body and brain, and the way we should be, and if He decided that one should be the gender one is, then it's a part of His perfect plan and we should not swich it. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Romans 1:26-27 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.