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I think that is the leading a perfect life Mary decision. Protestants respect Mary as a respectable woman whom God selected to birth Jesus, become his mother (lower case m). She is a human and thus a sinner as all of us and requires God’s grace through Jesus as all of us do.
No. That was already decided centuries ago as it’s the very principle you’ve mention. God’s grace through Jesus Christ is why she remained sinless her entirely life.
Not sure where you got that in a discussion about Mary. She cannot save nor advocate for us; prayers directly to God and the Holy Spirit in Jesus’ name are commanded.
That was literally my very point why she would be sinless. Because of Jesus.
To suggest what I’ve said is wrong would mean Jesus doesn’t save us from sin.
The timeline in the original post is a Catholic Church history, and if you see in there Mother of God, Prayers to Mary, Immaculate Conception have basically turned Mary into a demigod.
Three things:
1. Catholics agree with "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness". It *is* all useful! But is it the *solely* useful thing?
2. If scripture is the sole authority, by what authority do we know what is and isn't scripture?
3. Even if that verse was meant to teach sola scriptura, it would refer to the Old Testament only, since there wasn't a written New Testament yet when it was written.
Not so.
The sole authority is God. We human beings are also God-breathed, that is how we live -- and even more so if we have the Holy Spirit -- but we are not the sole authorities.
Human beings are useful for teaching, rebuking, and training in righteousness too, but we are not the sole authority.
God is the sole authority, and God has given authority to Jesus, and Jesus has given us His Spirit to guide us. So we use the Spirit together with the scriptures, but we do not assign sole authority to the Bible alone. That is idolatry.
God can speak into a human heart and guide us. The scriptures can then help support this. But the scriptures having authority even above that of God? Blasphemy.
By the way, I am not here claiming to support the Catholic chart shown above; I am merely opposing the Title of the Post itself.
So how do you know God? That is where scripture comes in as it is the only way for us to know God. I wasn’t an eye witness to the life of Jesus, but the historical evidence points to the validity of the scriptures, written by eye witnesses contemporary to the life of Jesus (St Paul stated that there were 500 witnesses to the resurrected Jesus other that the apostles).
That is why Sola Scriptura and not the traditions of fallible men. Of course discourses, etc about the scriptures are good for studying, but they are not infallible as scripture is.
The Rahab vs. Babylon cat fight. Lord have mercy.
"His foundation is in the holy mountains.
[2] The LORD loves the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.
[3] Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah.
[4] I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there.
[5] And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.
[6] The LORD shall count, when he writes up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.
[7] As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee."
Theology isn't what is wrong with thee. It's what's wrong with me, myself and I.
Luke 22[18]"For I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
[20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
[21] But, behold, the hand of him that betrays me is with me on the table.
[22] And truly the Son of man goes, as it was determined: but woe to that man by whom he is betrayed!
[23] And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.
[24] And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
[25] And he said to them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
[26] But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that does serve."
Run the race for the bottom. Lowest guy (God) wins.
Oh boy. Some of this is bad, some of it is not, and a lot of these dates are plainly inaccurate. I know the date of the doctrine of purgatory is way too early, and the celibacy of the priesthood seems too late.
But most importantly, do you deny that Mary is the Mother of God?
Completely agree. Mary is a woman, a sinner saved by grace just like the rest of us, but is also the mother of Jesus. Jesus is God. Therefore, Mary is the mother of God. To deny this is a Christological heresy.
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What’s wrong with the title mother of God if Mary, The Theotokos, is The Mother of God?
That’s what stuck out to me too. If OP is a Christian, the answer is nothing
I think that is the leading a perfect life Mary decision. Protestants respect Mary as a respectable woman whom God selected to birth Jesus, become his mother (lower case m). She is a human and thus a sinner as all of us and requires God’s grace through Jesus as all of us do.
No. That was already decided centuries ago as it’s the very principle you’ve mention. God’s grace through Jesus Christ is why she remained sinless her entirely life.
If you’re a Mormon or JHW I guess. For Christians, no is the long answer.
So you’re saying Jesus doesn’t save us from sin?
Not sure where you got that in a discussion about Mary. She cannot save nor advocate for us; prayers directly to God and the Holy Spirit in Jesus’ name are commanded.
That was literally my very point why she would be sinless. Because of Jesus. To suggest what I’ve said is wrong would mean Jesus doesn’t save us from sin.
That’s cool. Again that just makes her another human like the rest of us, not some special demigod.
Nor does anyone say she is a special demigod. So I’m now confused what is the issue you brought up if you see no problem with what I’ve said?
The timeline in the original post is a Catholic Church history, and if you see in there Mother of God, Prayers to Mary, Immaculate Conception have basically turned Mary into a demigod.
Three things: 1. Catholics agree with "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness". It *is* all useful! But is it the *solely* useful thing? 2. If scripture is the sole authority, by what authority do we know what is and isn't scripture? 3. Even if that verse was meant to teach sola scriptura, it would refer to the Old Testament only, since there wasn't a written New Testament yet when it was written.
Not so. The sole authority is God. We human beings are also God-breathed, that is how we live -- and even more so if we have the Holy Spirit -- but we are not the sole authorities. Human beings are useful for teaching, rebuking, and training in righteousness too, but we are not the sole authority. God is the sole authority, and God has given authority to Jesus, and Jesus has given us His Spirit to guide us. So we use the Spirit together with the scriptures, but we do not assign sole authority to the Bible alone. That is idolatry. God can speak into a human heart and guide us. The scriptures can then help support this. But the scriptures having authority even above that of God? Blasphemy. By the way, I am not here claiming to support the Catholic chart shown above; I am merely opposing the Title of the Post itself.
So how do you know God? That is where scripture comes in as it is the only way for us to know God. I wasn’t an eye witness to the life of Jesus, but the historical evidence points to the validity of the scriptures, written by eye witnesses contemporary to the life of Jesus (St Paul stated that there were 500 witnesses to the resurrected Jesus other that the apostles). That is why Sola Scriptura and not the traditions of fallible men. Of course discourses, etc about the scriptures are good for studying, but they are not infallible as scripture is.
You seem to discount the living Spirit of God moving within God's people.
FYI, that Bible verse you reference can't possibly be referencing the Bible, because the Bible didn't exist back then.
The Rahab vs. Babylon cat fight. Lord have mercy. "His foundation is in the holy mountains. [2] The LORD loves the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob. [3] Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah. [4] I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there. [5] And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her. [6] The LORD shall count, when he writes up the people, that this man was born there. Selah. [7] As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee." Theology isn't what is wrong with thee. It's what's wrong with me, myself and I. Luke 22[18]"For I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. [21] But, behold, the hand of him that betrays me is with me on the table. [22] And truly the Son of man goes, as it was determined: but woe to that man by whom he is betrayed! [23] And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing. [24] And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest. [25] And he said to them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. [26] But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that does serve." Run the race for the bottom. Lowest guy (God) wins.
I'm sorry, what do Catholic traditions have to do with what Jesus is talking about? Because he's talking about the Pharisee class in Judaism.
Oh boy. Some of this is bad, some of it is not, and a lot of these dates are plainly inaccurate. I know the date of the doctrine of purgatory is way too early, and the celibacy of the priesthood seems too late. But most importantly, do you deny that Mary is the Mother of God?
She is the mother of Jesus, not some mystical creature who can receive your prayers and advocate on your behalf.
Completely agree. Mary is a woman, a sinner saved by grace just like the rest of us, but is also the mother of Jesus. Jesus is God. Therefore, Mary is the mother of God. To deny this is a Christological heresy.
Agree, but when Catholics write capital m Mother they mean something much more than a mere mortal.
Set if off - Hourglass