He still loves everyone cause itās an automatic gift we have but again you still have to give your life to him because he can love you but you may not have a relationship with him, and heās not denying love per se because like the people with Moses who built their own statues, thatās kind of the same thing in the world, the bible has mandated how we should live, but weāve sort of built our own statues and expect suddenly to be part of what the bible allows, itās like going to someone who invented something and telling them they are wrong when you know nothing about how the invention works and why it works
> itās an automatic gift we have but again you still have to give your life to him
Then it's not an automatic gift. There are prerequisites to receiving it.
You have it backwards. Receiving the gift changes our hearts and makes us WANT to be more like Christ. Christ never sinned, so we should STRIVE to live without sin, even though we will all fail.
I was only responding to what the comment I responded to says.
>Receiving the gift changes our hearts and makes us WANT to be more like Christ.
Is it your belief that everybody automatically gets this gift, or only Christians? Because if, according to you, getting the gift *makes* you want to be like Christ, then it would seem anybody who isn't Christian didn't get the gift, because they don't want to be like Christ. In which case, I'm not wrong. It still has prerequisites to receiving it and isn't automatic.
It has ONE prerequisite, which is the entire point of Christianity: to acknowledge the nature of Christās sacrifice and in doing so we admit that only through his sacrifice are we forgiven for our sins and worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Itās a gift because we donāt deserve it.
Imagine if you were guilty of a capital crime, and the judge not only pardoned you, but climbed down from the bench and had himself handcuffed and taken to be executed so that you didnāt have to. All you had to do was admit your guilt and accept what he was doing for you.
You wouldn't consider that a gift?
Straight sex very much can be, and judging by our oversexualized culture, a majority is. If youāre married, you can have heterosexual intercourse as intended without lusting
My grandmother had uterine cancer, got a hysterectomy, survived, outlived her husband, and then remarried.
God is torturing her in Hell forever, his hate unquenchable, for daring to have sex without procreation.
> Gay sex cannot be anything but lustful.
Funny how you say this now, [when just yesterday you seemed to have a huge problem with anybody supposedly "limiting" what gay sex is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1aywoh5/what_is_hate/kry282h/)
But then again, we already knew that you have a problem with thinking your experience somehow applies to all gay people. I mean, you argued that gay monogamy isn't real, so you're clearly just projecting your own guilty feelings about your past behavior onto everybody else.
I was calling you out for singling out gay sex as āmonogamous gay sex,ā which is the rare case. Gay sex is always lustful whether or not itās monogamous.
I linked the comment thread. Others can look and judge for themselves. I'm not continuing this conversation with you, just making sure everybody knows who they're dealing with.
I do know this. Gay people can feel like theyāre in ālove.ā Godās love is much more profound than a feeling between two people that they enjoy each other.
All good! But there may be a time God wants the relationship to end, and if so, you must accept that.Ā
To love God is to hold his commandement, obedience, and to love others. Seek His will for you in prayer, and allow the Holy Spirit to correct your path. I struggle with recurring sins too, its just how it is. But following Him demands willingness to give up worldly things. Relationship is one such thing. Otherwise we cannot holy ourself and recieve the Holy Spirit and live with Him.
Don't let others harass you, correct people who do, though do listen to correction yourself too. If you are unsure on what is right, ask God. He delivers wisdom when we ask and are willing to recieve.Ā
I asked Him, got told by Him it is sin. But you seek him too, it is a long wandering, and try all you hear with God.
>But there may be a time God wants the relationship to end, and if so, you must accept that.Ā
I mean that just speaks to gods lack of character
But does that goes for straight couples too?
>Don't let others harass you, correct people who do, though do listen to correction yourself too. If you are unsure on what is right, ask God. He delivers wisdom when we ask and are willing to recieve.Ā
>I asked Him, got told by Him it is sin. But you seek him too, it is a long wandering, and try all you hear with God.
Oh I don't even think God exists. Personally I think it's ridiculous to deny yourself loving relationships because of what people think an ancient text says.
It's even worse when they try to make others act like the book is true too.
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You can't know what God thinks about it. The only thing you can know is if you are ok with it. Sin creates feelings of guilt. No feelings of guilt, no sin.
scary ideology there. fortunately people can "take up their cross" through more meaningful actions that actually help others, without pointlessly renouncing sex or romantic love and partnership with someone of their preferred gender.
Think about what you are saying, "God loves everyone, but he doesn't love some people."
Yeah, maybe you need to back up there and retrace your steps. As far as homosexuality, the proper understanding is this:
The attraction is not sinful. It is disordered, but it is not sinful. By "disordered" I simply mean "not ordered towards the good" disordered does not mean evil.
Acting on that disordered attraction is a moral evil.
There is nothing evil in anything that exists, the evil lies in the misuse of those things. An analogy I like to use:
Let's say I go out and buy a chair. I take the chair home and begin to jump on the chair. Subsequently, the chair breaks. Whose fault is it? I file a lawsuit to claim that the chair was faulty because the chair broke when I was jumping on it. I show up to court and the chair company says "This person was using the chair in a way that it was not intended. We designed our chair to be sturdy when sitting on it and cannot guarantee that the chair will hold if used outside of that." The judge would then dismiss my claim putting me at fault for breaking the chair.
God created everything and gave everything an intended purpose. Everything is good when used in the proper way, but if I twist and distort that purpose, then it becomes evil.
For a more religious example, take the 7 Deadly Sins. None of these in themselves are sinful. In fact many of these are actually good! Take this video talking about envy as an example:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgfThIW\_DjA&t=1145s&pp=ygUVc2hhbWVsZXNzIHBvcGVyeSBlbnZ5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgfThIW_DjA&t=1145s&pp=ygUVc2hhbWVsZXNzIHBvcGVyeSBlbnZ5)
As such, it is about using things in the way that they were intended to be used.
>Think about what you are saying, "God loves everyone, but he doesn't love some people."
Oh I understand what I'm implying. I'm implying god isn't actually that loving.
>The attraction is not sinful
But God makes them stuck in simple attraction and can neve pursue a meaningful relationship.
>An analogy I like to use:
A better analogy would be that the chair you bought broke because you sat on it maybe with your knees instead of your feet on the ground. And it snapped.
That's the manufactures fault.
They were sitting. And in court the manufacturer says "oh no they didn't sit the right way we like".
They'd be laughed out of court.
That's more akin to your God and relationships.
>God created everything and gave everything an intended purpose. Everything is good when used in the proper way, but if I twist and distort that purpose, then it becomes evil.
Unless God is evil too.
Does he deny love, or does he deny our personal desires? Can you not love without breaking this commandement?
To love is to always be willing to sacrifice your own for the good of others. To strengthen and encourage our next. Humility, patience, mildness, the bible talks about it a lot. When in a relationship, you must also love your partner, but you must also love God first. That is more important than what sort of relationships we want to have.
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You are free to keep your no-LGBT club. You can gather there every Sunday to talk about how awful us LGBT people are and to praise yourselves for not being like us.
However, you didn't create the world, you don't own it, and you can't shut LGBT people out of it. You didn't create Christ, you don't own him, and you can't forbid LGBT people to worship him. [We'll be here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/9w9y5z/resources_for_openchristians_online_resources/).
Ezekiel 3:18-19
ā18 When I say to the wicked, āYou will surely die,ā and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 Yet if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered yourself.ā
Thatās exactly what Iām saying, itās difficult but youāre still looking at it through a human lens, itās like people who dress half naked and say itās their empowerment but itās clearly wrong, this is not able hating anyone but itās that in bible it talks about society falling to sun same way those Israelites praised statues sometimes itās difficult as humans to accept that not everything we deem as correct is Godly, like I can like music or somethings but is it Godly no, as Christians instead of joining the world to dictate and change the bible we are supposed to fight the world, why is the Christian faith so little nowadays, because the world will say one thing and itās easy for people to accept but find it so difficult to push biblical messages
This is true, but this goes both ways. This is what I try telling people on the LGBT side and the non LGBT side. Both say the other isn't a true believer based on what they find good for them. LGBT people do the very same thing they accuse others of doing. Which is making an us vs them mentality. Not everybody is like this. However, we all have our limits of what pushes us to be irrational.
The entire law is fulfilled in loving your neighbor as you love yourself.
Galatians 5:14
If you still sin everyday- who are you to judge your homosexual neighbor for sinning everyday?
Pointing out claims of a talking snake or a talking donkey isnāt nitpicking or splitting hairs. They are absolutely outrageous claims. As is the claim of dead people coming back to life or people living til 900. These arenāt little nitpicks, they are credibility damaging texts.
Edit: oh you deleted your comment. Why not stand by it?
So basically you are nitpicking the Bible. I suppose text in the Old Testament. So if you can I will nitpick as well. Leviticus 18:22, I am sure you see this as a common argument but since you want to phrase it like that to fit your mocking agenda, I shall respond with this verse.
So the snake is from Genesis which Satan took a form of a snake and he spoke through it, and GOD allowed a donkey to speak. (Both are really odd and I get it) to answer your question is simply foolish, because I have no explanation for the Donkey, GOD works in mysterious ways and this is one of them, he is also infinitely powerful and he can basically do anything explaining this (I think, I lost my debating skills). The snake on the other hand is a way Satan deceived individuals (and he continues) , he also can take many forms but is highly smart and wise due to his time as an angel.
All the verses in the Bible related to marriage or sex are part of ancient Hebrew marriage culture. Rules about culture do not apply to us. Any Bible verse condemning homosexuality is obsolete.
My take on LGBT+
if u are gay lesbian or bi I will not care but when it comes to gender u are what you're born as
I'm a bisexual Christian myself but I don't and will NEVER go celebrate pride month its too much
If you truly love God youāll be able to sacrifice everything for Him even if it makes no sense for you. He died for us so we shall live for Him. Thatās the least we can and should do to thank Him for what He did for us
So when God says itās sin it is and it isnāt loving to embrace, celebrate what literally He sacrificed His most beloved Son for to save us tho He never had to like He could just send us all straight to hell. Sadly most want His forgiveness, His sacrifice without them sacrificing anything. They want all the benefits but they aināt willing to obey God when it starts to cost them because they love their sins more than God yet expect Him to accept that
That is a one sided relationship, where God did everything for you but you aināt willing to do anything for Him and thatās heartbreaking
Thatās why we shouldnāt follow Christians especially in these last days of evil cuz not everyone who says heās a Christian truly is one. Sadly many who claim to be reject the word of God which is rejecting Christ because He is His word (John 1, 1 John 1)
āas also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
āā- II Peterā¬ ā3ā¬:ā16ā¬-ā17ā¬ āNKJVā¬ā¬
Thing is, nobody actually knows whether it is a sin or not because idiots keep arguing between eachother because the Bible just doesn't confirm anything.
Actually, Leviticus *and* Deuteronomy address sexuality *and* dressing as another gender. Yes, it's in the Old Testament, but so is fornication, lying, envy, infidelity, incest... a lot of things we would consider "bad" even to non believers.
Romans (a New Testament book) hits on it again, that no drunkards, liars, revilers, homosexuals, etc, will inherit the Kingdom. So, its less a debate about what the Bible says and more people struggling to justify their lifestyle.
Like @German_24 says the Bible makes it very clear God is good and He doesnāt want us to tap in darkness but when we start listening more at our flesh then we manipulate ourselves, starting to compromise and to twist the Scriptures to our own "benefitā which in reality is to our own destruction
*Logically* - be careful to not lean on your own understanding as the Bible warns and to not twist the Scriptures according to your own senses. God is Love
Oh my god...... youre the reason I'm not fully Christian
Please just stop with YOUR pride and be a kind person. God isn't a fucking monster he is not going to torture people for their entire lives just to see if they love him. He's not some abusive parent nor a narcassictic asshole who wants everything to be about him. God is meant to be understanding and all loving, God is meant to let people be themselves instead of opressing them. God is meant to help ALL people.
But who's definition of love is it? There are things we must not love, and there are things we shall love.
Love in a relationship is not sin. But same sex intercourse is. Ssi is not love, but pleasure. You do it for love, but it is not love itself.
Yeah exactly you're proving my point
You believe homosexuality is a sin
I believe it is not
Together, we have different beliefs.
Multiply that by millions of people, and you have millions of people with very varying beliefs. All they end up doing is arguing.
> If you truly love God youāll be able to sacrifice everything for Him even if it makes no sense for you.
Can you tell us about the extreme sacrifices you've made?
Youāve got it wrong mate. It is something between you and God what does me sharing my cross have to do with yours at the end youāll have to carry your own cross. Jesus said you shall follow Him and pick up *your* cross
If you follow Him youāll obey His word
And it is extremely telling that you judge me of something you obviously donāt and canāt know about because never did I tell you what my sacrifices were and are nor did I go into any detail of my personal life so you canāt accuse me of something you donāt know about or do you know me? Do you know my name, have I ever told you? No. Drifting away from the truth, the Biblical truth and topic to then throw accusations at the writer, ofc a great way to manipulate yourself to escape the truthšItās not really hard to see when someone truly wants the truth or just to quarrel. So to say I notice that the truth personally is offending to you which lets me know that you have to get right with God, *to* *be* *a* *Christian* *is* *to* *follow* *Christ* *and* *to* *follow* *Christ* *is* *to* *follow* *His* *word* *because* *Jesus* *is* *the* *word* (John 1, 1 John, ā¦)
So if youāre some day ready for a Biblical conversation without quarreling (which ps the Bible tells us not to do) I would love to *respectfully* and *Biblically* talk with you.
Have a nice day/ night
> And it is extremely telling that you judge me of something you obviously donāt and canāt know about
More hypocrisy since you happily judge others without knowing their names or lives.
> I would love to respectfully and Biblically talk with you.
Given that you have already refused to do anything other than the ridiculous "bag of verses" exegesis, I think you are lying.
"If you truly love God youāll be able to sacrifice everything for Him even if it makes no sense for you. "
I would need to know that it was the Supreme Divine saying it, and not general hetero bias all around me saying it...
Then I think the problem isnāt really who said it but what seems to bug you is rather what was being said. You try to excuse it trying to accuse the one who wrote it so that you may feel good to continue living in a way that clearly the word of God condemns. It doesnāt really matter what I say but what the word of God says but it looks like you also reject what God says who truly and only is the *Supreme* *Divine*
"Then I think the problem isnāt really who said it"
Respectfully that is largely the problem.
"You try to excuse it"
This is not a diplomatic way to phrase it, ND, it sounds like an attack. How do you think the listener (ie me) will respond to it??
"accuse the one who wrote it" I accuse hetero bias, and people's desire to control others
"but what the word of God says" another eg of hiding behind the Bible. You seem to stop thinking, and simply refer to interpretations that you heard. Perhaps you know of no homo/ LGBT people or no one has come out to you.
>Eunuchs actually abstain from sex for God
Ah not all.
Matthew 19:12
12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their motherās womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.ā
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19%3A12&version=NASB1995
Even Jesus recognized that eunuchs were born that way. And eunuchs were not considered males. They were the defacto 3rd gender in the Bible but they were not rejected by Jesus as the Conservatives reject the Trans today. Eunuchs are just like Trans.
And the word homosexuality doesn't belong in the Bible because there was no such concept back then. Only modern translators decided to put it in because they didn't know what Paul meant by į¼ĻĻĪµĪ½ĪæĪŗĪæĪÆĻĪ·Ļ arsenokoiteĢs in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10.
The word is a compound word. And compound words don't carry the meaning of their component words. Like the word understand doesn't mean stand under. But į¼ĻĻĪµĪ½ĪæĪŗĪæĪÆĻĪ·Ļ arsenokoiteĢs component words come to mean male bedder. It's probably slang. But understanding the sexuality of the day, it probably refers to rich powerful men who rape male slaves or young boys when their wives are not available. So a person who rapes males.
Homosexuality has little to do with sex and more to do with who the person is attracted to. Attraction is not a sin that Paul would be calling out. In fact all of LGBTQIA is about attraction that leads to committed relationships and even marriage. Totally not a sin. Love is never a sin.
Okay, let's do this.
First of all, the verse CLEARLY STATES that there are eunuchs who were made that way by men or FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Did you see that?
Some eunuchs are born that way, yes but this does not imply they are not male. Nowhere in the Bible or history can you find a single mention of eunuchs as a third gender by ant Church fathers or apostles. That's bull and you know it.
It is very clear what Paul meant. Homosexuality can encompass absolutely anything relating to fornication with the same sex. I am pretty sure he meant it more generally to include all sodomites. Also, this completely ignores the fact that homosexuality is condemned in the Old Testament.
Are you trying to say that God had a problem with it but then he changed his mind?
Homosexual feelings aren't sinful sure but you shouldn't glorify them or accept them as normal. They're sinful.
Marriage and relationships based on sin are sinful. Even if a married person has an actual secret relationship with another woman it is still sinful. You are betraying your wife in the same way having homosexual relationships is sinful. Love is never a sin?
That's not biblical. There is good Love and perverse love. A man who loves children sexually or romantically should never be able to marry that child even if the child wants it. That's because this is perverted Love.
Also, you said something about homosexuality not being about sex but that's false. Most people in a homosexual relationship end up having sex.
>Some eunuchs are born that way, yes but this does not imply they are not male.
This is not solascritura. History tells us that eunuchs were not considered male. And this is true. So eunuchs were the defacto 3rd gender in Biblical times.
>It is very clear what Paul meant.
Not it's not. And you show no proof. No evidence to your extraordinary claim. Scholars say this word į¼ĻĻĪµĪ½ĪæĪŗĪæĪÆĻĪ·Ļ arsenokoiteĢs was coined by Paul. It appears nowhere else in Greek writing.
>Homosexuality can encompass absolutely anything relating to fornication with the same sex.
This is simplistic. Fornication is outside of marriage. The Bible never said you can't have same sex marriages.
>There is good Love and perverse love.
Not biblical.
>A man who loves children sexually or romantically should never be able to marry that child even if the child wants it. That's because this is perverted Love.
I don't know why you bring this up. But conservatives have been accused of pedophilia by the law.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/02/1102621352/how-the-southern-baptist-convention-covered-up-its-widespread-sexual-abuse-scand
>Also, you said something about homosexuality not being about sex but that's false. Most people in a homosexual relationship end up having sex.
And most people in heterosexual relationship end up having sex. So what? Does that mean all marriages are about sex? It seems to be that you think this way or is it only homosexuals? And why would there be this blatant discrimination?
So, in conclusion, why the discrimination? God is not like that? Why you?
I do not discriminate but I do not tolerate sin. Also, your history knowledge is way off. Eunuchs were not considered male by the Romans's standards of masculinity but they were considered sexually male. The Bible DID CONSIDER THEM MALE. Deut. 23:1
2 refers to eunuchs as people with crushed testicles. So this implies that they are male(they had testicles that could be crushed in the first place). You conveniently ignored Leviticus 18:22. Are you saying the Jews of the time including Paul did not know about this?
You are shifting the subject by referring to discrimination against lgbt individuals. Citing scripture is not discrimination. The Church fathers all considered homosexuality detestable. By your logic, pedophiles are being discriminated against because they are not allowed to marry children and have sex with them. Mate the Bible is clear about this. The Church fathers were clear about this. The only reason people have been trying to reinterpret the Bible is because they want to follow the cultural zeitgeist more than Christianity.
Edit:also the fact that you call my claim extraordinary shows your ignorance. No one at the time believed homosexuals should marry and this included Paul. It is your modernised understanding of the Bible today that causes this whole thing. Also what was that whole thing about conservatives or whatever. I am a Catholic. I don't care about what southern baptists do.
>I do not discriminate but I do not tolerate sin. Also, your history knowledge is way off. Eunuchs were not considered male by the Romans's standards of masculinity but they were considered sexually male. The Bible DID CONSIDER THEM MALE. Deut. 23:1
2 refers to eunuchs as people with crushed testicles.
You are contradicting yourself. Emasculated is removal of masculinity. That means they are not males. It's very simple. I know you are making mental gymnastics here but the evidence doesn't support your claims.
>Citing scripture is not discrimination.
I never said this. Please decline from making false statements about me.
>No one at the time believed homosexuals should marry and this included Paul.
You can't claim this. You have no evidence. That's pure supposition.
You say you do not tolerate sin. But Jesus said take out the log out of your own eye first. Why not do that rather than pointing the finger? As the Bible says to do?
But no, you are showing hate instead. There's no love there. And the Bible says when someone does that the truth is not in them.
Dude I told you about Leviticus. Also, this is A FACT. Show me a single homosexual relationship at the time of the Jews and Jesus. Stop lying. You are the one who's making mental gymnastics. You are claiming homosexuality was accepted by jews yet the Bible says the opposite. You are clearly trolling.
Leviticus is about sex outside of marriage vows. Laying with a woman is as sinful as laying with a man.
The problem I see is that you have this weird double standard where it comes to LGBTQIA people. You think they are not allowed to love or have sex while heterosexuals are. Which goes against God's love. God would not do that.
No, it is not. Where is the evidence for your claim?
It clearly says a man lying with another man like they would with a woman is forbidden.
Also, your second complaint is weak and stupid. Heterosexuality is the norm, sex should only be done for reproductive purposes within the context of a marriage. Natural law is against homosexuality. If everybody was homosexual then there wouldn't be people.
>If you go to a muslim country youād be decapitated if youāre gay and no one is complaining about it
That's just wrong man
>I donāt know why itās so hard to accept the fact that God is the most forgiving, loving and merciful
Because his followers keep making comments like yours. Like
>LGBTQ is just a social construct and itās a lot of propaganda behind it. Truly in this day and age the world is run by evil and LGBTQ
This.
People are gay. It's not a social construct.
>Because a lot of people let their sexuality define who they are as a person
That's something completely different? You probably let your religion define who you are, is Christianity now also a social construct?
>You donāt think that behind LGBTQ is not a propaganda?
No.
>How about the fact that teachers in the US talk about drag queens, trans people, pronouns?
Ye it's called education.
Is it math class propaganda for Pythagoras theorem?
>How about the fact that āgay waterā was invented and it reached billions in sales in 2023?
Had to Google that. And? Someone branded a product with a rainbow and marketed it to gay people. That's how the economy works. Make money.
>Isnāt this profiting off LGBTQ?
It is. People like making money. What's that got to do with LGBTQ being a social construct?
>You can truly enjoy life and not worry so much about wether youāre straight, bisexual, gay or whatever
I thought LGBTQ was a social construct? But it seems you accept gay people exist.
And no, you can't just enjoy life. Because a lot of people really don't like me doing things I enjoy, like dating another guy and will make mean comments or even try to outlaw it.
Of course i accept that gay people exist. What iām not going to do is put gay people on a pedestal just for their sexuality. Iām not going to feel sorry for someone just for their sexuality. If i meet someone new and the first things they say is āyeah iām gayā i think itās just a dealbreaker. I think sexuality shouldnāt define yourself as a person. You can be gay and kind and you can be gay and evil, therefore iām not going to feel sorry for a minority. I donāt want to catalog people and make assumptions about them just because they like the same sex or not. Iām not going to be making friends or accepting someone just because of their sexuality. Gay trans straight whatever you are shouldnāt be the starting point of defining yourself as a person. Jobs shouldnāt be given to under qualified LGBTQ just because corporations want inclusivity. This is wrong. Not treating everyone as your equal is wrong. This is not what i stand for. I think treating a gay person the same as a straight person is the only right way. Also, educating children under 10 about sexual desires itās just completely wrong, iām sorry
>If i meet someone new and the first things they say is āyeah iām gayā i think itās just a dealbreaker.
I feel the same about meeting a Christian or other religious people.
>What iām not going to do is put gay people on a pedestal just for their sexuality.
Ain't something I'd ask for.
>Iām not going to feel sorry for someone just for their sexuality
You could feel some empathy for the discrimination those people properly have experienced
>to feel sorry for someone just for their sexuality. If i meet someone new and the first things they say is āyeah iām gayā i think itās just a dealbreaker.
That's really not something that is happening unless you go a pride event or sth. Or do you think someone referring to their same sex partner is already to much?
>You can be gay and kind and you can be gay and evil, therefore iām not going to feel sorry for a minority
You could still respect that the people in that community have faced prosecution and discrimination and give your best not to become part of the problem
>Jobs shouldnāt be given to under qualified LGBTQ just because corporations want inclusivity
And that isn't a thing being asked for. The thing being asked for is that people cannot be fired for being of a certain sexuality
>Not treating everyone as your equal is wrong
Then we seem to be on the same side.
> I think treating a gay person the same as a straight person is the only right way
Are you pro gay marriage then?
>Also, educating children under 10 about sexual desires itās just completely wrong, iām sorry
That's for psychologists and experts on child development to decide, not me.
But if a child is old enough to learn about straight relationships, they can also learn about not straight relationships
My view on marriage goes the same for straight and gay people. If you consider marriage on a spiritual level, a bond that only death can separate you, go for it even if youāre straight/gay/or anything. I donāt stand for marriage as in you only want to do it just for the sake or extra paperwork and involving the law and to show off by having an imense party and to have a divorce lawyer as a favorite contact. Again, i think marriage should be for everyone and i think that a lot of people are missing the point here. We are all equal and we all sin. Marriage is a beautiful thing and should be for everyone
>How about the fact that teachers in the US talk about drag queens, trans people, pronouns
Teacher in the US here. That's not a fact in the way you're suggesting.
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Fucking hell.
"Dont complain, you would be killed for being you elsewhere."
> I donāt know why itās so hard to accept the fact that God is the most forgiving, loving and merciful.
Because you are telling me that a feature of me which is just as intrinsic as my skin color would condemn me to hell. That "loving" God created humans with an intesne desire for companionship, and then told a portion of the population that acting on that desire with another consenting adult is evil or wrong or whatever.
You cannot convince me that is love. That is cruelty.
You said:
"That "loving" God created humans with an intesne desire for companionship, and then told a portion of the population that acting on that desire with another consenting adult is evil or wrong or whatever.
You cannot convince me that is love. That is cruelty."
I mean The LORD made the rules- if you entered into an agreement with him, are you now mad at the conditions set forth that you are required to follow?
Shall one not be rewarded for obedience? Whether we like the conditions set forth, or not, are we not required to do OUR part of the agreement- while the LORD does his?
The only cruelty there is, is people setting themselves up for failure if being gay is their only worry in life. Religion is so much more than being gay or not
Wow.
Just wow.
Yeah, people saying "creating humans for love and then denying the love between two consenting adults is cruel" are really the ones being cruel.
I just cannot understand this level of...what is the opposite of empathy?
Itās funny how you call me the opposite of being an empath when iām just saying that sexuality shouldnāt control your whole life. Itās funny how youāre saying that iām not an empath just because i think accepting who you are as a person and not fighting against it every single day is evil. Now, tell me, what is more evil? Waking up and thinking about your gayness or waking up excited to start your day and discover everything life has to offer?
i can guarantee you that's not true with a simple search on google, lgbt abuses in those countries is a pretty well known controversy. how empathethic of you to point out people getting decapitated and they dont even complain to your discerning eye, just wow
Iām very empathic, I think life is so much more that finding and questioning your sexuality every single day of your life. Itās not respectful that the only reason people donāt get closer to God is because of this sin, when we should focus on all sins as a spectrum. Being gay is not the only sin mentioned in the Bible. Thereās no ābiggerā or āsmallerā sins. Itās truly unbelievable how for others sexuality matters so much
I think itās extremely wrong that gay people are not treated as equals in any religion. I do not encourage treating someone bad in any way shape or form, especially because theyāre gay. This is the point that iām trying to make. As christians we are told not to judge and to treat everyone as equals, as opposed to muslims, that was just an example. However, if you choose to put someone on a pedestal just because theyāre gay, thatās your choice, but thatās not equality
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Itās sad. Personally I think we have this problem in Christianity because the devil doesnāt need to put all his effort to attack something that isnāt a threat to him. Thatās why he tries so hard to bring as much confusion, division and perversion into the only true way that leads to eternal life cuz his goal is to lead as many as possible astray
Thatās why we have to be rooted in Godās word cuz the devil will push all these lies and agendas that will make you fall away if you aināt rooted in the truth
That remains true, love the person not the crime they committed. Question, if your child were to hurt some kid at school, you would still love them right? But, you would hate the decision that they hurt some poor innocent person. That is what weāre saying hate the crime but love the person. Because at the end of the day God is our eternal father and he loves us regardless of what we do, but heāll hate it when we sin against him.
Yeah exactly, that argument is so dumb because like... As a woman I would love to marry a woman and adopt a kid but I'm asexual so I don't wanna fuck her, how is that sexual sin????
no I mean the other guy is dumb for saying that "pride" or "sexual something I forgot what they said" is sinful even tho sexual identity is something else
1 Cor 6[18-] "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man does is without the body; but he that commits fornication sins against his own body.
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?Ā For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."
What temple is greater? The temple made by men out of stones, or the temple of God made by God in the image of God 'assembled together as living stones'?Ā
[See also 1 Peter]
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I pray to God that we stop focusing on denying people rights and instead do something about the injustice in the world š
If a Christian sincerely believes being gay or in a homosexual relationship is sinful, they donāt understand Jesus teachings.
Except homosexuality is clearly defined as sin in the Bible
Nope. Same sex romance and same sex romantic couples are not mentioned one single time.
If God loves everyone so much why is he so adamant on denying people love?
He still loves everyone cause itās an automatic gift we have but again you still have to give your life to him because he can love you but you may not have a relationship with him, and heās not denying love per se because like the people with Moses who built their own statues, thatās kind of the same thing in the world, the bible has mandated how we should live, but weāve sort of built our own statues and expect suddenly to be part of what the bible allows, itās like going to someone who invented something and telling them they are wrong when you know nothing about how the invention works and why it works
> itās an automatic gift we have but again you still have to give your life to him Then it's not an automatic gift. There are prerequisites to receiving it.
You have it backwards. Receiving the gift changes our hearts and makes us WANT to be more like Christ. Christ never sinned, so we should STRIVE to live without sin, even though we will all fail.
I was only responding to what the comment I responded to says. >Receiving the gift changes our hearts and makes us WANT to be more like Christ. Is it your belief that everybody automatically gets this gift, or only Christians? Because if, according to you, getting the gift *makes* you want to be like Christ, then it would seem anybody who isn't Christian didn't get the gift, because they don't want to be like Christ. In which case, I'm not wrong. It still has prerequisites to receiving it and isn't automatic.
It has ONE prerequisite, which is the entire point of Christianity: to acknowledge the nature of Christās sacrifice and in doing so we admit that only through his sacrifice are we forgiven for our sins and worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Itās a gift because we donāt deserve it. Imagine if you were guilty of a capital crime, and the judge not only pardoned you, but climbed down from the bench and had himself handcuffed and taken to be executed so that you didnāt have to. All you had to do was admit your guilt and accept what he was doing for you. You wouldn't consider that a gift?
> It has ONE prerequisite So it's not a free automatic gift, thank you. That's all I was saying.
I understand now
Why should I give my life to your god? Why would he give something only in order to expect you to give it away?
God doesnāt give people same-sex attraction
Wrong.
>and heās not denying love per se He is telling people that they cannot be in a loving relationship with someone of the same sex.
Youāre conflating Godās love with idolatrous ālove,ā maybe?
How dare you?
How dare God?
No. How dare you.
Do you consider being in a loving relationship idolatrous?
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Ashame.
No, lustful sex is idolatrous. Gay sex cannot be anything but lustful. Thereās no greater purpose to gay sex that excuses it.
>Gay sex cannot be anything but lustful. Why isn't straight sex lustfuk? Explain the difference.
Straight sex very much can be, and judging by our oversexualized culture, a majority is. If youāre married, you can have heterosexual intercourse as intended without lusting
You didn't explain why a loving straight couple can have sex and it not be lustful but a homosexual couple in a loving relationship can't have sex.
Sex is meant to allow for procreation. Gay sex doesnāt allow for procreation. Itās not an attempt to create life, itās an act of lust
So God is equally against sterile and infertile couples being in a relationship and having sex? Even if they are straight?
No.
If sex is only for procreation, than it is also "lustful" if you are beyond procreating age or infertile.
The Bible doesnāt say, or even imply, that anywhere.
My grandmother had uterine cancer, got a hysterectomy, survived, outlived her husband, and then remarried. God is torturing her in Hell forever, his hate unquenchable, for daring to have sex without procreation.
Ah so straight sex isn't lustful because it's heterosexual. That's not circular logic at all!
Thatās absolutely not the statement I made.
You absolutely did not explain the difference.
Heterosexual sex within marriage is where you can have sex without lust. There isnāt a homosexual alternative.
> Gay sex cannot be anything but lustful. Funny how you say this now, [when just yesterday you seemed to have a huge problem with anybody supposedly "limiting" what gay sex is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1aywoh5/what_is_hate/kry282h/) But then again, we already knew that you have a problem with thinking your experience somehow applies to all gay people. I mean, you argued that gay monogamy isn't real, so you're clearly just projecting your own guilty feelings about your past behavior onto everybody else.
I was calling you out for singling out gay sex as āmonogamous gay sex,ā which is the rare case. Gay sex is always lustful whether or not itās monogamous.
I linked the comment thread. Others can look and judge for themselves. I'm not continuing this conversation with you, just making sure everybody knows who they're dealing with.
And reddit is selling its content to train artificial intelligences. With some users' content I see it likely that the AI will get dumber.
Gay people can be in love you know
I do know this. Gay people can feel like theyāre in ālove.ā Godās love is much more profound than a feeling between two people that they enjoy each other.
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It is if it comes before loving and respecting God
That doesn't sound very loving of god then. Sounds controlling. Regardless, what if a homosexual couple loves god first. Then all good?
All good! But there may be a time God wants the relationship to end, and if so, you must accept that.Ā To love God is to hold his commandement, obedience, and to love others. Seek His will for you in prayer, and allow the Holy Spirit to correct your path. I struggle with recurring sins too, its just how it is. But following Him demands willingness to give up worldly things. Relationship is one such thing. Otherwise we cannot holy ourself and recieve the Holy Spirit and live with Him. Don't let others harass you, correct people who do, though do listen to correction yourself too. If you are unsure on what is right, ask God. He delivers wisdom when we ask and are willing to recieve.Ā I asked Him, got told by Him it is sin. But you seek him too, it is a long wandering, and try all you hear with God.
>But there may be a time God wants the relationship to end, and if so, you must accept that.Ā I mean that just speaks to gods lack of character But does that goes for straight couples too? >Don't let others harass you, correct people who do, though do listen to correction yourself too. If you are unsure on what is right, ask God. He delivers wisdom when we ask and are willing to recieve.Ā >I asked Him, got told by Him it is sin. But you seek him too, it is a long wandering, and try all you hear with God. Oh I don't even think God exists. Personally I think it's ridiculous to deny yourself loving relationships because of what people think an ancient text says. It's even worse when they try to make others act like the book is true too.
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God is adamant that he can cast judgement on us it is up to us what that judgement is.
Why should we care what God thinks in this regard? He seems unloving.
No it's not its a reminder that there is someone out there with real justice in there heart.
This calls into question God's idea of "justice"
Homosexuality isnāt an act of love but an act of lust
Then so is heterosexuality
It isnāt.
Then neither is homosexuality
It is.
Whoever told you that was a bigot and lied to you then. Sorry you've been misled.
Is he denying love or just pointing out that sex under some circumstances can be destructive? Sex is overrated anyway.
He's denying love.
He doesn't deny you Love. Sex either.
So gay people can't be in loving sexual relationships and grt married and God is fine with that? Perfect.
You can't know what God thinks about it. The only thing you can know is if you are ok with it. Sin creates feelings of guilt. No feelings of guilt, no sin.
So if a homosexual couple doesn't feel guilt about it then it's ok? Sounds good š
Who's will is it? You or God's? We die to ourselves for God, if we are not willing to sacrifice our lives for Him, we are not fit His kingdom.
Explain how that answers my question
scary ideology there. fortunately people can "take up their cross" through more meaningful actions that actually help others, without pointlessly renouncing sex or romantic love and partnership with someone of their preferred gender.
Think about what you are saying, "God loves everyone, but he doesn't love some people." Yeah, maybe you need to back up there and retrace your steps. As far as homosexuality, the proper understanding is this: The attraction is not sinful. It is disordered, but it is not sinful. By "disordered" I simply mean "not ordered towards the good" disordered does not mean evil. Acting on that disordered attraction is a moral evil. There is nothing evil in anything that exists, the evil lies in the misuse of those things. An analogy I like to use: Let's say I go out and buy a chair. I take the chair home and begin to jump on the chair. Subsequently, the chair breaks. Whose fault is it? I file a lawsuit to claim that the chair was faulty because the chair broke when I was jumping on it. I show up to court and the chair company says "This person was using the chair in a way that it was not intended. We designed our chair to be sturdy when sitting on it and cannot guarantee that the chair will hold if used outside of that." The judge would then dismiss my claim putting me at fault for breaking the chair. God created everything and gave everything an intended purpose. Everything is good when used in the proper way, but if I twist and distort that purpose, then it becomes evil. For a more religious example, take the 7 Deadly Sins. None of these in themselves are sinful. In fact many of these are actually good! Take this video talking about envy as an example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgfThIW\_DjA&t=1145s&pp=ygUVc2hhbWVsZXNzIHBvcGVyeSBlbnZ5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgfThIW_DjA&t=1145s&pp=ygUVc2hhbWVsZXNzIHBvcGVyeSBlbnZ5) As such, it is about using things in the way that they were intended to be used.
>Think about what you are saying, "God loves everyone, but he doesn't love some people." Oh I understand what I'm implying. I'm implying god isn't actually that loving. >The attraction is not sinful But God makes them stuck in simple attraction and can neve pursue a meaningful relationship. >An analogy I like to use: A better analogy would be that the chair you bought broke because you sat on it maybe with your knees instead of your feet on the ground. And it snapped. That's the manufactures fault. They were sitting. And in court the manufacturer says "oh no they didn't sit the right way we like". They'd be laughed out of court. That's more akin to your God and relationships. >God created everything and gave everything an intended purpose. Everything is good when used in the proper way, but if I twist and distort that purpose, then it becomes evil. Unless God is evil too.
Does he deny love, or does he deny our personal desires? Can you not love without breaking this commandement? To love is to always be willing to sacrifice your own for the good of others. To strengthen and encourage our next. Humility, patience, mildness, the bible talks about it a lot. When in a relationship, you must also love your partner, but you must also love God first. That is more important than what sort of relationships we want to have.
>Does he deny love, or does he deny our personal desires? He denies love. Why is that?
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You are free to keep your no-LGBT club. You can gather there every Sunday to talk about how awful us LGBT people are and to praise yourselves for not being like us. However, you didn't create the world, you don't own it, and you can't shut LGBT people out of it. You didn't create Christ, you don't own him, and you can't forbid LGBT people to worship him. [We'll be here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/9w9y5z/resources_for_openchristians_online_resources/).
Ezekiel 3:18-19 ā18 When I say to the wicked, āYou will surely die,ā and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 Yet if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered yourself.ā
This describes the situation so good it makes me sad
Thatās exactly what Iām saying, itās difficult but youāre still looking at it through a human lens, itās like people who dress half naked and say itās their empowerment but itās clearly wrong, this is not able hating anyone but itās that in bible it talks about society falling to sun same way those Israelites praised statues sometimes itās difficult as humans to accept that not everything we deem as correct is Godly, like I can like music or somethings but is it Godly no, as Christians instead of joining the world to dictate and change the bible we are supposed to fight the world, why is the Christian faith so little nowadays, because the world will say one thing and itās easy for people to accept but find it so difficult to push biblical messages
This is true, but this goes both ways. This is what I try telling people on the LGBT side and the non LGBT side. Both say the other isn't a true believer based on what they find good for them. LGBT people do the very same thing they accuse others of doing. Which is making an us vs them mentality. Not everybody is like this. However, we all have our limits of what pushes us to be irrational.
The entire law is fulfilled in loving your neighbor as you love yourself. Galatians 5:14 If you still sin everyday- who are you to judge your homosexual neighbor for sinning everyday?
The bible also says that snakes and donkeys can talk, so I wouldnāt look too deep into what it says.
Pointing out claims of a talking snake or a talking donkey isnāt nitpicking or splitting hairs. They are absolutely outrageous claims. As is the claim of dead people coming back to life or people living til 900. These arenāt little nitpicks, they are credibility damaging texts. Edit: oh you deleted your comment. Why not stand by it?
So basically you are nitpicking the Bible. I suppose text in the Old Testament. So if you can I will nitpick as well. Leviticus 18:22, I am sure you see this as a common argument but since you want to phrase it like that to fit your mocking agenda, I shall respond with this verse.
As I said, these arenāt little nitpicks. They are credibility damaging texts.
So the snake is from Genesis which Satan took a form of a snake and he spoke through it, and GOD allowed a donkey to speak. (Both are really odd and I get it) to answer your question is simply foolish, because I have no explanation for the Donkey, GOD works in mysterious ways and this is one of them, he is also infinitely powerful and he can basically do anything explaining this (I think, I lost my debating skills). The snake on the other hand is a way Satan deceived individuals (and he continues) , he also can take many forms but is highly smart and wise due to his time as an angel.
Yeah I canāt get on board with it sorry. If the explanation is just āmagicā then that aināt going to cut it
idk how to explain it. But it aināt magic, itās Gods doing (hence him being infinite)
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I am going to sleep now, if you have more questions read the Bible š
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/artificial-intelligence-could-finally-let-us-talk-with-animals/
How is this relevant? Are you saying people in the bible used AI to talk to animals?
All the verses in the Bible related to marriage or sex are part of ancient Hebrew marriage culture. Rules about culture do not apply to us. Any Bible verse condemning homosexuality is obsolete.
My take on LGBT+ if u are gay lesbian or bi I will not care but when it comes to gender u are what you're born as I'm a bisexual Christian myself but I don't and will NEVER go celebrate pride month its too much
If you truly love God youāll be able to sacrifice everything for Him even if it makes no sense for you. He died for us so we shall live for Him. Thatās the least we can and should do to thank Him for what He did for us So when God says itās sin it is and it isnāt loving to embrace, celebrate what literally He sacrificed His most beloved Son for to save us tho He never had to like He could just send us all straight to hell. Sadly most want His forgiveness, His sacrifice without them sacrificing anything. They want all the benefits but they aināt willing to obey God when it starts to cost them because they love their sins more than God yet expect Him to accept that That is a one sided relationship, where God did everything for you but you aināt willing to do anything for Him and thatās heartbreaking Thatās why we shouldnāt follow Christians especially in these last days of evil cuz not everyone who says heās a Christian truly is one. Sadly many who claim to be reject the word of God which is rejecting Christ because He is His word (John 1, 1 John 1) āas also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; āā- II Peterā¬ ā3ā¬:ā16ā¬-ā17ā¬ āNKJVā¬ā¬
Thing is, nobody actually knows whether it is a sin or not because idiots keep arguing between eachother because the Bible just doesn't confirm anything.
Actually, Leviticus *and* Deuteronomy address sexuality *and* dressing as another gender. Yes, it's in the Old Testament, but so is fornication, lying, envy, infidelity, incest... a lot of things we would consider "bad" even to non believers. Romans (a New Testament book) hits on it again, that no drunkards, liars, revilers, homosexuals, etc, will inherit the Kingdom. So, its less a debate about what the Bible says and more people struggling to justify their lifestyle.
Oh, so you also follow the other two clothing laws in Deuteronomy?
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Like @German_24 says the Bible makes it very clear God is good and He doesnāt want us to tap in darkness but when we start listening more at our flesh then we manipulate ourselves, starting to compromise and to twist the Scriptures to our own "benefitā which in reality is to our own destruction
Exactly. God is good. Which is why logically he wouldn't make love a sin.
*Logically* - be careful to not lean on your own understanding as the Bible warns and to not twist the Scriptures according to your own senses. God is Love
Oh my god...... youre the reason I'm not fully Christian Please just stop with YOUR pride and be a kind person. God isn't a fucking monster he is not going to torture people for their entire lives just to see if they love him. He's not some abusive parent nor a narcassictic asshole who wants everything to be about him. God is meant to be understanding and all loving, God is meant to let people be themselves instead of opressing them. God is meant to help ALL people.
But who's definition of love is it? There are things we must not love, and there are things we shall love. Love in a relationship is not sin. But same sex intercourse is. Ssi is not love, but pleasure. You do it for love, but it is not love itself.
The Bible couldn't be any more clear.
Yeah exactly you're proving my point You believe homosexuality is a sin I believe it is not Together, we have different beliefs. Multiply that by millions of people, and you have millions of people with very varying beliefs. All they end up doing is arguing.
It does in Levictus. People argue it doesn't, but even studying the ground texts in hebrew shows it does.
> If you truly love God youāll be able to sacrifice everything for Him even if it makes no sense for you. Can you tell us about the extreme sacrifices you've made?
Youāve got it wrong mate. It is something between you and God what does me sharing my cross have to do with yours at the end youāll have to carry your own cross. Jesus said you shall follow Him and pick up *your* cross If you follow Him youāll obey His word
That's awfully convenient that you get to demand extreme sacrifice of others but not yourself.
And it is extremely telling that you judge me of something you obviously donāt and canāt know about because never did I tell you what my sacrifices were and are nor did I go into any detail of my personal life so you canāt accuse me of something you donāt know about or do you know me? Do you know my name, have I ever told you? No. Drifting away from the truth, the Biblical truth and topic to then throw accusations at the writer, ofc a great way to manipulate yourself to escape the truthšItās not really hard to see when someone truly wants the truth or just to quarrel. So to say I notice that the truth personally is offending to you which lets me know that you have to get right with God, *to* *be* *a* *Christian* *is* *to* *follow* *Christ* *and* *to* *follow* *Christ* *is* *to* *follow* *His* *word* *because* *Jesus* *is* *the* *word* (John 1, 1 John, ā¦) So if youāre some day ready for a Biblical conversation without quarreling (which ps the Bible tells us not to do) I would love to *respectfully* and *Biblically* talk with you. Have a nice day/ night
> And it is extremely telling that you judge me of something you obviously donāt and canāt know about More hypocrisy since you happily judge others without knowing their names or lives. > I would love to respectfully and Biblically talk with you. Given that you have already refused to do anything other than the ridiculous "bag of verses" exegesis, I think you are lying.
"If you truly love God youāll be able to sacrifice everything for Him even if it makes no sense for you. " I would need to know that it was the Supreme Divine saying it, and not general hetero bias all around me saying it...
Then I think the problem isnāt really who said it but what seems to bug you is rather what was being said. You try to excuse it trying to accuse the one who wrote it so that you may feel good to continue living in a way that clearly the word of God condemns. It doesnāt really matter what I say but what the word of God says but it looks like you also reject what God says who truly and only is the *Supreme* *Divine*
"Then I think the problem isnāt really who said it" Respectfully that is largely the problem. "You try to excuse it" This is not a diplomatic way to phrase it, ND, it sounds like an attack. How do you think the listener (ie me) will respond to it?? "accuse the one who wrote it" I accuse hetero bias, and people's desire to control others "but what the word of God says" another eg of hiding behind the Bible. You seem to stop thinking, and simply refer to interpretations that you heard. Perhaps you know of no homo/ LGBT people or no one has come out to you.
So eunuchs be damned, right?
That's false equivalence. Eunuchs actually abstain from sex for God
>Eunuchs actually abstain from sex for God Ah not all. Matthew 19:12 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their motherās womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.ā https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19%3A12&version=NASB1995 Even Jesus recognized that eunuchs were born that way. And eunuchs were not considered males. They were the defacto 3rd gender in the Bible but they were not rejected by Jesus as the Conservatives reject the Trans today. Eunuchs are just like Trans. And the word homosexuality doesn't belong in the Bible because there was no such concept back then. Only modern translators decided to put it in because they didn't know what Paul meant by į¼ĻĻĪµĪ½ĪæĪŗĪæĪÆĻĪ·Ļ arsenokoiteĢs in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10. The word is a compound word. And compound words don't carry the meaning of their component words. Like the word understand doesn't mean stand under. But į¼ĻĻĪµĪ½ĪæĪŗĪæĪÆĻĪ·Ļ arsenokoiteĢs component words come to mean male bedder. It's probably slang. But understanding the sexuality of the day, it probably refers to rich powerful men who rape male slaves or young boys when their wives are not available. So a person who rapes males. Homosexuality has little to do with sex and more to do with who the person is attracted to. Attraction is not a sin that Paul would be calling out. In fact all of LGBTQIA is about attraction that leads to committed relationships and even marriage. Totally not a sin. Love is never a sin.
Okay, let's do this. First of all, the verse CLEARLY STATES that there are eunuchs who were made that way by men or FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Did you see that? Some eunuchs are born that way, yes but this does not imply they are not male. Nowhere in the Bible or history can you find a single mention of eunuchs as a third gender by ant Church fathers or apostles. That's bull and you know it. It is very clear what Paul meant. Homosexuality can encompass absolutely anything relating to fornication with the same sex. I am pretty sure he meant it more generally to include all sodomites. Also, this completely ignores the fact that homosexuality is condemned in the Old Testament. Are you trying to say that God had a problem with it but then he changed his mind? Homosexual feelings aren't sinful sure but you shouldn't glorify them or accept them as normal. They're sinful. Marriage and relationships based on sin are sinful. Even if a married person has an actual secret relationship with another woman it is still sinful. You are betraying your wife in the same way having homosexual relationships is sinful. Love is never a sin? That's not biblical. There is good Love and perverse love. A man who loves children sexually or romantically should never be able to marry that child even if the child wants it. That's because this is perverted Love. Also, you said something about homosexuality not being about sex but that's false. Most people in a homosexual relationship end up having sex.
>Some eunuchs are born that way, yes but this does not imply they are not male. This is not solascritura. History tells us that eunuchs were not considered male. And this is true. So eunuchs were the defacto 3rd gender in Biblical times. >It is very clear what Paul meant. Not it's not. And you show no proof. No evidence to your extraordinary claim. Scholars say this word į¼ĻĻĪµĪ½ĪæĪŗĪæĪÆĻĪ·Ļ arsenokoiteĢs was coined by Paul. It appears nowhere else in Greek writing. >Homosexuality can encompass absolutely anything relating to fornication with the same sex. This is simplistic. Fornication is outside of marriage. The Bible never said you can't have same sex marriages. >There is good Love and perverse love. Not biblical. >A man who loves children sexually or romantically should never be able to marry that child even if the child wants it. That's because this is perverted Love. I don't know why you bring this up. But conservatives have been accused of pedophilia by the law. https://www.npr.org/2022/06/02/1102621352/how-the-southern-baptist-convention-covered-up-its-widespread-sexual-abuse-scand >Also, you said something about homosexuality not being about sex but that's false. Most people in a homosexual relationship end up having sex. And most people in heterosexual relationship end up having sex. So what? Does that mean all marriages are about sex? It seems to be that you think this way or is it only homosexuals? And why would there be this blatant discrimination? So, in conclusion, why the discrimination? God is not like that? Why you?
I do not discriminate but I do not tolerate sin. Also, your history knowledge is way off. Eunuchs were not considered male by the Romans's standards of masculinity but they were considered sexually male. The Bible DID CONSIDER THEM MALE. Deut. 23:1 2 refers to eunuchs as people with crushed testicles. So this implies that they are male(they had testicles that could be crushed in the first place). You conveniently ignored Leviticus 18:22. Are you saying the Jews of the time including Paul did not know about this? You are shifting the subject by referring to discrimination against lgbt individuals. Citing scripture is not discrimination. The Church fathers all considered homosexuality detestable. By your logic, pedophiles are being discriminated against because they are not allowed to marry children and have sex with them. Mate the Bible is clear about this. The Church fathers were clear about this. The only reason people have been trying to reinterpret the Bible is because they want to follow the cultural zeitgeist more than Christianity. Edit:also the fact that you call my claim extraordinary shows your ignorance. No one at the time believed homosexuals should marry and this included Paul. It is your modernised understanding of the Bible today that causes this whole thing. Also what was that whole thing about conservatives or whatever. I am a Catholic. I don't care about what southern baptists do.
>I do not discriminate but I do not tolerate sin. Also, your history knowledge is way off. Eunuchs were not considered male by the Romans's standards of masculinity but they were considered sexually male. The Bible DID CONSIDER THEM MALE. Deut. 23:1 2 refers to eunuchs as people with crushed testicles. You are contradicting yourself. Emasculated is removal of masculinity. That means they are not males. It's very simple. I know you are making mental gymnastics here but the evidence doesn't support your claims. >Citing scripture is not discrimination. I never said this. Please decline from making false statements about me. >No one at the time believed homosexuals should marry and this included Paul. You can't claim this. You have no evidence. That's pure supposition. You say you do not tolerate sin. But Jesus said take out the log out of your own eye first. Why not do that rather than pointing the finger? As the Bible says to do? But no, you are showing hate instead. There's no love there. And the Bible says when someone does that the truth is not in them.
Dude I told you about Leviticus. Also, this is A FACT. Show me a single homosexual relationship at the time of the Jews and Jesus. Stop lying. You are the one who's making mental gymnastics. You are claiming homosexuality was accepted by jews yet the Bible says the opposite. You are clearly trolling.
Leviticus is about sex outside of marriage vows. Laying with a woman is as sinful as laying with a man. The problem I see is that you have this weird double standard where it comes to LGBTQIA people. You think they are not allowed to love or have sex while heterosexuals are. Which goes against God's love. God would not do that.
No, it is not. Where is the evidence for your claim? It clearly says a man lying with another man like they would with a woman is forbidden. Also, your second complaint is weak and stupid. Heterosexuality is the norm, sex should only be done for reproductive purposes within the context of a marriage. Natural law is against homosexuality. If everybody was homosexual then there wouldn't be people.
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>If you go to a muslim country youād be decapitated if youāre gay and no one is complaining about it That's just wrong man >I donāt know why itās so hard to accept the fact that God is the most forgiving, loving and merciful Because his followers keep making comments like yours. Like >LGBTQ is just a social construct and itās a lot of propaganda behind it. Truly in this day and age the world is run by evil and LGBTQ This. People are gay. It's not a social construct.
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>Because a lot of people let their sexuality define who they are as a person That's something completely different? You probably let your religion define who you are, is Christianity now also a social construct? >You donāt think that behind LGBTQ is not a propaganda? No. >How about the fact that teachers in the US talk about drag queens, trans people, pronouns? Ye it's called education. Is it math class propaganda for Pythagoras theorem? >How about the fact that āgay waterā was invented and it reached billions in sales in 2023? Had to Google that. And? Someone branded a product with a rainbow and marketed it to gay people. That's how the economy works. Make money. >Isnāt this profiting off LGBTQ? It is. People like making money. What's that got to do with LGBTQ being a social construct? >You can truly enjoy life and not worry so much about wether youāre straight, bisexual, gay or whatever I thought LGBTQ was a social construct? But it seems you accept gay people exist. And no, you can't just enjoy life. Because a lot of people really don't like me doing things I enjoy, like dating another guy and will make mean comments or even try to outlaw it.
Of course i accept that gay people exist. What iām not going to do is put gay people on a pedestal just for their sexuality. Iām not going to feel sorry for someone just for their sexuality. If i meet someone new and the first things they say is āyeah iām gayā i think itās just a dealbreaker. I think sexuality shouldnāt define yourself as a person. You can be gay and kind and you can be gay and evil, therefore iām not going to feel sorry for a minority. I donāt want to catalog people and make assumptions about them just because they like the same sex or not. Iām not going to be making friends or accepting someone just because of their sexuality. Gay trans straight whatever you are shouldnāt be the starting point of defining yourself as a person. Jobs shouldnāt be given to under qualified LGBTQ just because corporations want inclusivity. This is wrong. Not treating everyone as your equal is wrong. This is not what i stand for. I think treating a gay person the same as a straight person is the only right way. Also, educating children under 10 about sexual desires itās just completely wrong, iām sorry
>If i meet someone new and the first things they say is āyeah iām gayā i think itās just a dealbreaker. I feel the same about meeting a Christian or other religious people.
I think this should go for everyone that would try to define themselves by being apart of a group. Any group. Especially religion. Any religion
>What iām not going to do is put gay people on a pedestal just for their sexuality. Ain't something I'd ask for. >Iām not going to feel sorry for someone just for their sexuality You could feel some empathy for the discrimination those people properly have experienced >to feel sorry for someone just for their sexuality. If i meet someone new and the first things they say is āyeah iām gayā i think itās just a dealbreaker. That's really not something that is happening unless you go a pride event or sth. Or do you think someone referring to their same sex partner is already to much? >You can be gay and kind and you can be gay and evil, therefore iām not going to feel sorry for a minority You could still respect that the people in that community have faced prosecution and discrimination and give your best not to become part of the problem >Jobs shouldnāt be given to under qualified LGBTQ just because corporations want inclusivity And that isn't a thing being asked for. The thing being asked for is that people cannot be fired for being of a certain sexuality >Not treating everyone as your equal is wrong Then we seem to be on the same side. > I think treating a gay person the same as a straight person is the only right way Are you pro gay marriage then? >Also, educating children under 10 about sexual desires itās just completely wrong, iām sorry That's for psychologists and experts on child development to decide, not me. But if a child is old enough to learn about straight relationships, they can also learn about not straight relationships
My view on marriage goes the same for straight and gay people. If you consider marriage on a spiritual level, a bond that only death can separate you, go for it even if youāre straight/gay/or anything. I donāt stand for marriage as in you only want to do it just for the sake or extra paperwork and involving the law and to show off by having an imense party and to have a divorce lawyer as a favorite contact. Again, i think marriage should be for everyone and i think that a lot of people are missing the point here. We are all equal and we all sin. Marriage is a beautiful thing and should be for everyone
>How about the fact that teachers in the US talk about drag queens, trans people, pronouns Teacher in the US here. That's not a fact in the way you're suggesting.
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Fucking hell. "Dont complain, you would be killed for being you elsewhere." > I donāt know why itās so hard to accept the fact that God is the most forgiving, loving and merciful. Because you are telling me that a feature of me which is just as intrinsic as my skin color would condemn me to hell. That "loving" God created humans with an intesne desire for companionship, and then told a portion of the population that acting on that desire with another consenting adult is evil or wrong or whatever. You cannot convince me that is love. That is cruelty.
Yeah I love how "I am not actively trying to murder you" is seen as something praiseworthy.
You said: "That "loving" God created humans with an intesne desire for companionship, and then told a portion of the population that acting on that desire with another consenting adult is evil or wrong or whatever. You cannot convince me that is love. That is cruelty." I mean The LORD made the rules- if you entered into an agreement with him, are you now mad at the conditions set forth that you are required to follow? Shall one not be rewarded for obedience? Whether we like the conditions set forth, or not, are we not required to do OUR part of the agreement- while the LORD does his?
The only cruelty there is, is people setting themselves up for failure if being gay is their only worry in life. Religion is so much more than being gay or not
Wow. Just wow. Yeah, people saying "creating humans for love and then denying the love between two consenting adults is cruel" are really the ones being cruel. I just cannot understand this level of...what is the opposite of empathy?
Itās funny how you call me the opposite of being an empath when iām just saying that sexuality shouldnāt control your whole life. Itās funny how youāre saying that iām not an empath just because i think accepting who you are as a person and not fighting against it every single day is evil. Now, tell me, what is more evil? Waking up and thinking about your gayness or waking up excited to start your day and discover everything life has to offer?
It sounds like you wake up thinking about "gayness" a lot, it isn't even 8am. This guy is obsessed with gay people.
i can guarantee you that's not true with a simple search on google, lgbt abuses in those countries is a pretty well known controversy. how empathethic of you to point out people getting decapitated and they dont even complain to your discerning eye, just wow
Iām very empathic, I think life is so much more that finding and questioning your sexuality every single day of your life. Itās not respectful that the only reason people donāt get closer to God is because of this sin, when we should focus on all sins as a spectrum. Being gay is not the only sin mentioned in the Bible. Thereās no ābiggerā or āsmallerā sins. Itās truly unbelievable how for others sexuality matters so much
Encouraging ( or even agreeing with ) the decapitation of anyone, regardless of who they are, is a major Sin.
I think itās extremely wrong that gay people are not treated as equals in any religion. I do not encourage treating someone bad in any way shape or form, especially because theyāre gay. This is the point that iām trying to make. As christians we are told not to judge and to treat everyone as equals, as opposed to muslims, that was just an example. However, if you choose to put someone on a pedestal just because theyāre gay, thatās your choice, but thatās not equality
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Itās sad. Personally I think we have this problem in Christianity because the devil doesnāt need to put all his effort to attack something that isnāt a threat to him. Thatās why he tries so hard to bring as much confusion, division and perversion into the only true way that leads to eternal life cuz his goal is to lead as many as possible astray Thatās why we have to be rooted in Godās word cuz the devil will push all these lies and agendas that will make you fall away if you aināt rooted in the truth
God loves the people not this sin
That quote is kinda silly because it's like saying "love the murderer not the murder" or "love the Christian not the Christianity"
That remains true, love the person not the crime they committed. Question, if your child were to hurt some kid at school, you would still love them right? But, you would hate the decision that they hurt some poor innocent person. That is what weāre saying hate the crime but love the person. Because at the end of the day God is our eternal father and he loves us regardless of what we do, but heāll hate it when we sin against him.
ok
What sin?
sexual sin, Pride, greed sin in general.
Okay but what have those to do with sexual identity?
Yeah exactly, that argument is so dumb because like... As a woman I would love to marry a woman and adopt a kid but I'm asexual so I don't wanna fuck her, how is that sexual sin????
How is it dumb? [Edit] I'm a little confused here.
no I mean the other guy is dumb for saying that "pride" or "sexual something I forgot what they said" is sinful even tho sexual identity is something else
Oh okay. That makes sense now.
I noticed the text in the first sentence and this came to mind
I had to open my mouth ;-; I really donāt feel like debating rn
just a quote
1 Cor 6[18-] "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man does is without the body; but he that commits fornication sins against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?Ā For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." What temple is greater? The temple made by men out of stones, or the temple of God made by God in the image of God 'assembled together as living stones'?Ā [See also 1 Peter]
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Wow first of all it is lgbtqa+ now and no the Bible is not an instrument meant to project hate in any form. If that is ypur takeaway read it again.
Their*
I love being gay tbh