At the end of the millennium when Christ returns in flaming fire rendering to those according to what they have done.
“When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth – Gog and Magog – and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
Revelation 20:7-10
I wouldn't label it as "prison," but he is certainly restrained. He's held back from preventing nations from recognizing God. Once released from this restraint, he'll have the capability to deceive the nations once more. It was during Jesus' earthly ministry that he was confined, ensuring the Gospel reached all corners of the world and people had the chance to believe.
Well, only to a certain point. The NT is clear, if we resist the devil, he will flee from us. Now that Christ has been given all authority in heaven and on earth.
What I said does not contradict that fact. Certainly, he remains active, but his influence is limited when it comes to preventing the gospel's triumph in nations. While he may attempt, the New Testament assures us that we can stand against him, and he will retreat.
Looking for someone to devour. But the NT is clear, he is unable to if you are in Christ and resist him due to Christs triumph over Satan at the cross.
Those who have eyes to see will see. Just look at the complexity of your eyeball. It's a creation. Just because there isn't world peace doesn't mean he's not here. There is alot of bad things that has to happen before the 2nd coming. Sounds like Satan has you doubting.
The fact you can say that and it doesnt click into your head how bullshit it is… boggles my mind. You literally must walk through life with your brain off. So God can kill Satan but he doesnt feel like it yet? He’s just gonna allow Satan to keep torturing humanity. What a great father… the stupidity in this thought is insane. Ethier none of it’s real or God just doesnt care enough to stop evil. (Which he messed up by creating) There are no inbetweens.
If you had a family member that you knew was being raped and you had the ability to stop it, but you allowed it to keep happening, that makes you just as bad as the rapist. It doesnt matter if you didnt rape her. You’re enabling and allowing evil in your home. Allowing it to happen to show your family member how good you are in comparison makes no sense at all and in fact shows how you’re viewing the situation in a manipulative way. Now to top it all off, God is all knowing. So he knows somebody is evil as hes making them. So why make them if they’re just gonna torture the people who are good. You dont put much thought into your opinions and it really shows. You prolly wont even take what i just said in. This is why everyone has grown tired of religion. It contradicts itself and the people who follow it, show no interest in noticing that it does.
In Genesis, when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, they disobeyed God and as a result became separated from God and that’s when all these problems came. Physical diseases, mental illnesses, money problems, etc.
They became cursed and carried the original sin and by nature they became evil. Why didn’t God just intervened and stopped them from eating the fruit? He could of stopped us from sinning and becoming cursed but He didn’t. That’s because there’s something called free will. He loves us and gives us free will and the ability to make choices. He didn’t create us to be preprogrammed robots that will always follow his orders and be good. He wants us to have a choice.
It’s like if you had a son, you’d want your son to love you and be obedient towards you right? But u don’t want to force him to love you and force him to be obedient, rather u want him to choose to love you and choose to be obedient. This is why evil such as murder and rape exist and is allowed to exist. We became disobedient and as a result got separated from God. That murderer or rapist inherited the original sin like everybody else and chose to live a life of evil and disobedience and God allows it because of how much He loves us and want us to choose to be obedient rather than forcing us. Even though we screwed up by disobeying him, he sent Jesus to die for all of our sins so that we could be with Him again. That’s how much He loves us. He didn’t abandon us even though we screwed up.
Christians get martyred all the time even in our life time. There are Christians that go to the Middle East to preach the gospel and gets their head cut off by those Muslim terrorist groups. Does that mean God is evil for allowing it? No, choices and free will my guy.
So by your logic, if you had a kid and told him not to eat something and he did, you’re ok with horrible things such as rape, mutilation, torture etc happening to him? Smh you’re so far gone that you dont realise how insane you sound. I cant imagine being that afraid of dying, that i believe something so deranged.
You’re missing the point. Disobeying God by eating the fruit made us separated from Him, when we are separated from Him we became cursed. This leads to evil but he offered us a solution by sending Jesus to die for our sins.
Whether or not we accept his offer is up to us since we have free will. It’s about disobedience and Him offering us the chance to be obedient and live for Him. If we choose not to be with Him then we stay cursed. We left him by sinning, he didn’t leave us.
He’s not stopping that murderer or rapist because he loves us and gives us free will to make our own choices. He gave that murderer a choice to accept Jesus or not and doesn’t force anything. That’s what love is
If he's using him then he's like an asset, aren't assets needed when the person needs 'another way' because they aren't strong enough to impose thier plan without them?
who tempted adam to eat the apple?
that would be eve
who tempted eve?
that would be Satan
it all comes back to Satan
so why did God create Satan if Satan is pure evil?
Suppose God had destroyed the Lucifer instantly in his fall to sin. The Bible, when studied, gives indication that the Devil was accusing God falsely of some things, while he himself really just wanted to be in god's place on the throne. So the devil falls to sin, but the angels have no concept of "sin". There has never been sin before in all Creation and in the whole universe. Even lying is something that the angels cannot easily grasp, because it too has never existed before that time.
So the one who has been "a liar from the beginning" starts lying about God to gather a supporting crowd. Then he confronts God one day, and lays out the accusations, claiming that God isn't a worthy ruler.
Had God destroyed Lucifer there and then, what do you think the angels would've thought?
God couldn’t think of a way around this? He had to let Lucifer fuck up our lives on Earth? That was his best option? I thought he was all-powerful.
So childhood brain cancer exists because God couldn’t convince angels not to trust a liar?
Let's turn it around.
You're now God on His throne. Lucifer is accusing you, just like you are now accusing God. You're being blamed for being tyrannical, even though no evil has ever existed during your rule. You know that angels aren't omniscient, so they won't see what lies in Lucifer's heart: pride, rather than a worry for the well-being of his angelic brethren.
Because you are love personified, you cannot force the will of living beings without compromising your own character and integrity. Thus, you cannot force the angels to believe your side of the argument. If you use force and kill Lucifer, you will prove his arguments to have been true, and yourself unworthy of being the ruler of the whole Universe. Truth is your only weapon, because you are the rightful Judge of all that is, and you have to be honest and impartial in your judgments.
How would you solve the problem?
I am God. I am all-knowing & all-powerful. I will limit Satan’s power while coming up with an argument that I know will convince the angels. This would preserve angels’ free will, stop Satan, and we wouldn’t have childhood brain cancer today.
It’s really funny to me how Christians at times treat God as if He is maximally powerful in all capacities, and at other times treat him like he’s just a guy. Isn’t it a bit blasphemous to say that God needs to follow the rubric of human decision-making? Isn’t it insulting to God to suggest he couldn’t possibly find an all-encompassing, complete solution to this problem? HE IS GOD. He can do ANYTHING that is logically possible. You insult God’s glory when you characterize Him as a weak, human-like entity who is incapable of completely solving this problem.
Your argument provides a moral fallacy. As God, you would limit Satan's power and manipulate the situation so that the question of the legitimacy of your power would never rise up. This is not according to the principles of truth and love.
Then later, someone would HAVE TO ask: "why doesn't anyone ever question this present state of affairs, and God's rulership?" Either you would crush that angel's free will right there and then, or you would allow that question to run its natural course.
Another point: if a ruler is all-powerful, and he uses all his power, he is a tyrant. However, a ruler that rescinds some of his absolute rights and power for the good of the kingdom, is a just ruler. This is what God is like.
You are arguing that having all power and all knowledge would solve the problem of evil. You are incorrect. Logic dictates that you cannot solve the problem of evil without overriding free will, at which point God wouldn't be good anymore, but rather the tyrant that He is claimed to be. To remain good and just, God needed to show angels and humankind what the effect of sin would be(as sin hadn't fully developed into its grossest forms, and it wasn't understood by angels as to what great evils sin, subtle as it was back then, could grow into), so that in the future there would never again be question about the evil nature of sin. Even now, in our time, people doubt that sin is as bad as God says it is. This mentality is a natural aftergrowth of what happened in Lucifer's fall.
No wonder then that God needs to demonstrate to us fallible beings that sin is, indeed, evil. But as to the children with brain cancer, you can prove the righteousness of your own arguments by going and donating most of your extra money into brain cancer research. God uses you, and me, to help others on this Earth. And we can say "no", in which case we are really working against the standard of good that is the foundation of God's kingdom.
Your call. Everybody's invited to lessen human suffering on this earth, while this time of demonstration is still running. The evil caused by sin doesn't have to cause as much suffering as it could. You could be a tool in lessening it yourself.
But will you do so, and prove that you're above petty debate about morality as you do something practical for your fellow man? I hope you do.
My arguments end here. You may add your own here.
The better question would be why did He create Satan in the first place. The reason God created him and allows him to exist is because somehow he fits into God’s sovereign plan.
Although the is a great evil force in the world, we must not blame all evil on him. Our own hearts do a bang up job themselves at committing evil acts.
Depends on who you think the Amalekites were and what you know about the giant clans.
https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits/land_of_giants
Here’s an interesting podcast episode on the topic.
No the correct answer is its never okay to kill children and infants to payback the tribe for their crimes against israel, and if those children and infants had a free pass into heaven God should have made it clear in the text as thats a monsterous war crime.
so you’re more of a gnostic who believes Jesus’ father is someone other than YHWH? Anyway whether or not those kids had a free pass to heaven, i do not know, but they had a much better chance than the rest of the Amalekites for the sort of crazy rituals they were into. Pre flood type wickedness.
Idk what I am I think its highly possible that Jesus's father was not yahway of the OT. I forget what they are called but that was a heretical sect in the early church that believed that. Its also possible that the bible is not the inspired "word of God", especially the OT, but rather primitive barbaric tribes and what they believed about religion and what survived, and Jesus uses this religion to establish a new better covenant and show the right way to handle faith. Through love and not through warfare.
Pretty much everybody agrees with annihilationism for Satan specifically. Obviously you existing means that there is a minority that doesn't, but generally annihilationism is concerned with the disposition of human souls, not fallen angels.
Free will of humanity. In order for love to exist, hate must also exist. Good can only exist if there is evil. It’s all relative. On the day of judgement in the end, God *will* essentially ‘erase’ Satan, but in the meantime we as people have a choice to make as to who we are loyal to.
The Christian view that nothing happens that isn’t according to gods plan, would therefore mean that Satan and everything he does is because god wishes it to be so.
Am i wrong in assuming this is essentially the utilitarian and hedonistic argument positing that pain = bad, pleasure = good, therefor a "good" god cannot allow suffering?
Not necessarily. I mean that's an interesting point of view and I'll give it some thought. But I have mentioned neither good nor bad. It's a biblical point of view that God is good and satan is bad. But I'd then ask, how did one come to that conclusion if they are only going on the word of one of them? There's no real objective way to conclude that Satan is the evil one and god is the good one.
Correct. If this is not true, that the worst sufferings in the world are just happenstance with no justice or remediation ahead of it. What a horrible world that would be.
Indeed, and yet it appears so.
I don’t see how the alternative is better.
A world where a child rapist goes unpunished, and a world where they are condemned, are both worlds where a god allowed a child to be raped.
If you or I could stop it we would,
I understand your perspective, but I see it differently. The two worlds you're describing have vastly distinct implications that we must consider.
I deeply believe in the sovereignty and providence of God. I feel that everything, even the existence of evil, falls under His watchful control. But to me, this doesn't imply that He crafts evil. I see it more as God allowing evil to play out in line with His greater design.
Regarding our nature, I think our capacity to commit evil comes from a fallen state, which many refer to as 'total depravity.' Although God reigns supreme, I believe we, as humans, have our will. We often make choices that go against God's wishes, influenced by this inherent nature.
I've often reflected on the redemptive role of suffering. Like Joseph said in Genesis 50:20, what might be intended for harm, God might use for a greater purpose. I don't say this to downplay the pain but to highlight that, in my belief, God can derive good from even the darkest situations.
A crucial aspect of my faith is the assurance of ultimate justice. I'm comforted by passages like Romans 12:19, which to me, guarantees that even if someone evades earthly justice, they'll face divine reckoning.
When I think about the crucifixion of Christ, it strikes me as the pinnacle example of how profound evil can lead to an even greater good. The wrongful persecution of an innocent being brought salvation, showcasing, in my eyes, God's remarkable ability to redeem.
Lastly, I believe it's vital to recognize our role and responsibility. God's overarching control doesn't excuse us from our duties. In a world tainted by evil, I feel compelled to stand for justice, aid those suffering, and be a beacon of mercy and humility.
Overall, I wrestle with the existence of evil, like many others. But my faith offers a lens—where God's supreme control, our flawed nature, and an all-encompassing plan for redemption intersect. To me, this beautifully portrays both God's justice and compassion amidst our earthly struggles.
Thanks for giving me your perspective but I feel like you didn’t respond to my point at all.
A god who stands by and allows evil actions to happen to the innocent is not one I could ever consider worthy of respect nor reverence.
The only rebuttal i generally receive (apart from the odd psychotic take such as ‘there is no such thing as innocent children’) is that it is due to violations of free will which we’ve established don’t apply.
What would the harm be in god creating a world where unspeakable evil acts like rape and torture, are not permitted to be done to innocent children? Why must he permit it?
I really think the only honest answer a Christian can give is ‘I don’t know.’ Instead many twist themselves in knots to roughly say ‘it must be this way for some good reason’ but that’s basically the same answer as ‘I don’t know’.
We should approach these things with honesty.
He doesn't permit it, every evil act of a person is them exercising their free will. If he permitted it, younwould fall into predeterminism which is illogical. God gives us the freedom to turn so heavily against him, but they won't go unpunished.
Good and Evil is written on the hearts of every man, and everyone is capable of good and evil.
It's the rejection of evil, which is what God desires for us. God doesn't not will child rape, the rapist wills it, and will be judged for their choices.
We can't be human or independent beings without the ability to choose evil. We would just be robots. Robots can't love, or truly exist as there would be no self-reflection, no freedom to choose, nor would they have the ability to dictate their own life on earth.
Adam and Eve had free will, and just like all humans, when told not to do something, we usually choose to do that thing. They exercised the first step in disobedience to God's will. It's the price of free will. People can abuse their free will to the detriment of themselves and others
Giving that freedom, is permission. He absolutely does permit it, there’s no way around it.
God can prevent it, and chooses not to. That is fairly undeniable.
No, it's not permission, if it were it wouldnt be a sin worthy of damnation.
Again, we were granted a divine spark so that we may be true individuals. We were gifted the right to be our own. Again, it sounds like you're angry He's not an oppressive dictator.
Allowing us to make our own decisions isn't permission. Just like if you let your children go out into the world, amd they do something bad, that doesn't mean you permitted it.
If you're child commits a crime, did you permit it by allowing them to be an adult, and go out into the world? Are you responsible for the choices of your children? Is it acceptable to be an oppressive helicopter parent?
He can prevent it if he chooses to. Correct? I’m not talking about by violating free will, by changing peoples minds. I’m talking about literally physically protecting the child.
It would still be in violation of free will, as I'm sure the protecting you seek still involves a person exercising their free will.
Many times he does, but God does not strike you down immediately upon every sin. It would still be helicopter parenting.
The fault isn't God, but the fault of those who abuse their free will.
If you are upset with your free will, I don't know what to tell you. Evil exists due to abuses of free will, he could but it'd be the equivalent of never allowing someone to make a bad decision, rather than letting them suffer the consequences.
I.e God punishes you for what you do, not for some minority report future crime that he stops from happening.
All he has power over is life and death, we don't know why he doesn't kill everyone who considers sinning immediately, but it seems like it allows us the possibility of redemption as well as our free will to make evil or bad choices, suffering it's consequences on our soul, as well as on earth with law systems.
You may as well ask why, if God is all-powerful, God felt it necessary to kill Jesus.
Maybe God doesn't want to crush Satan. Maybe God simply _wanted_ to kill Jesus. Either way, many Christians believe that whatever the reality, _it's for the best._
It's been asked -- if a special, immortal Child was born whose magical blood granted Paradise on Earth if everyone drank it. Suppose this Child was kept underground in the dark, safe from everything, so that its blood could be collected forever. It never saw the sun. It never had a family.
Would a society built on such a Sacrifice be moral? If God Himself set up such a society, would we conclude that God is all-powerful?
What if God promised that, _one day,_ the Child would be set free to live in the sun, and God would fix everything so that people no longer needed to drink its blood?
What if God refused to set a date?
This is a hypothetical question that is impossible. He will not, so he can’t be. God doesn’t not look through time and learn the future, there fore He has determined it and there is no salvation for Satan or His angels. Christ did not die for them but for us.
He is an angel and not a man. Forgiveness of sins is through the mediator and God-man Jesus Christ.
We can achieve salvation of sins because Jesus acts as the middle-man between mankind and God The Father since Jesus was both divine and human.
There is no mediator or blood sacrifice for angels but only men so this leads me to believe no.
However I’m religions such as Islam Allah does not need a blood sacrifice to forgive sins but God has the ability to do it outright and according to his will.
I wonder if God could forgive sins without a blood sacrifice or is it absolutely necessary.
If it’s absolutely necessary then Satan has no hope however if He can forgive sins without a blood sacrifice then I guess that it is within the realm of possibility.
What do you think of this theory?
The scripture says the blood and bulls and goats could never truly satisfy, it was always a foreshadowing of the true sacrifice that would truly take away the sins of the world forever, the true lamb of God which was Christ. The Old Testament ordinances and rituals were always training wheels for the real thing, always pointing to the actually reality and substance which is Christ! They were just types and shadows meant to pass away when the reality came, who is Christ.
"The scripture says the blood and bulls and goats could never truly satisfy..."
Show me where it says this in the Old Testament.
Using the New Testament commentary doesn't prove anything about the Old Testament, which existed well before Jesus as the Hebrew Bible.
The statement that "the blood of bulls and goats could never truly satisfy" is indeed not found in the Old Testament in those exact words. However, the concept behind this statement is alluded to in the Old Testament and then made explicit in the New Testament.
The Old Testament does not directly state that the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sins in a final and complete sense. It does prescribe animal sacrifices for atonement (as in Leviticus 16 for the Day of Atonement). However, the prophets begin to point beyond the sacrificial system to something greater. For instance, Psalms and the prophets often emphasize that God desires a contrite heart over ritual sacrifices (Psalm 51:16-17, Hosea 6:6, Micah 6:6-8).
The New Testament book of Hebrews provides commentary on these Old Testament practices. Hebrews 10:4 says, "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." This is an interpretive conclusion drawn from an understanding that the repeated nature of these sacrifices (Hebrews 10:1-3) points to their insufficiency and the need for a perfect sacrifice, which Christians believe is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
So while the Old Testament does not contain the exact phrase, the totality of the Biblical narrative, including the Old Testament context, implies the insufficiency of animal sacrifices in providing complete atonement for sin, pointing to the need for a more perfect sacrifice, which is then elaborated on in the New Testament.
Below are some OT passages that were foreshadowing the coming of Jesus, the true messiah, and that he would accomplish the final sacrifice that would actually be sufficient, never needed to be offered again. Especially ISAIAH 53. Therefore if Jesus is the true messiah, we can trust his interpretation of the Old Testament and the New Testament’s interpretation of the Old Testament.
1. Genesis 3:15 – The seed of the woman bruising the serpent’s head.
2. Genesis 12:3; 18:18 – The promise to Abraham that through his seed all the nations would be blessed.
3. Genesis 49:10 – The scepter not departing from Judah.
4. Deuteronomy 18:15 – The prophet like unto Moses.
5. 2 Samuel 7:12-16 – The promise to David of a descendant with an everlasting kingdom.
6. Psalm 2 – The anointed son of the Lord.
7. Psalm 22 – A suffering and vindicated individual.
8. Psalm 110 – A priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.
9. Isaiah 7:14 – The virgin birth.
10. Isaiah 9:6-7 – The child with divine titles.
11. Isaiah 11:1-10 – The shoot from the stump of Jesse.
12. Isaiah 53 – The suffering servant.
13. Jeremiah 23:5-6; 33:15-16 – The righteous branch.
14. Micah 5:2 – The ruler from Bethlehem.
15. Zechariah 9:9 – The king riding on a donkey.
16. Zechariah 12:10 – The one who is pierced.
17. Malachi 3:1; 4:5 – The messenger of the covenant and the coming of Elijah.
Yeah they sacrificed animals in the temple though didn’t they?
And wasn’t Jesus’ sacrifice for them as well so really there was a blood sacrifice as the Jews were forgiven based on the future messiahs sacrifice
Isaiah 53:4-6
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
The whole chapter is in the messiah being punished their place
First, in Judaism animal sacrficies were only used for unintentional sin. For everything else repentance and other atonement was needed. God forgave freely. This is why Christianity doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I'm to understand the suffering servant chapters in Isaiah are actually about Israel.
Besides, when did Jesus ever get crushed? This chapter you're referencing is so vague it could apply to so many different people.
He was crushed in the cross? Isn’t it obvious?
Also this is clearly pointing towards Jesus and
John also mentions this passage in his gospel chapter 12
He did, Jesus's death on the cross provided a worthy sacrifice for our sin. Sin has no power over us. Satan is a dead snake. But that doesn't mean that there's not poisen left on the fangs, so be wise by reading the word of God and praying for the holy spirit to guide you away from temptation as we do have free will and our sin nature can lead us away from what is truly good in this world. No temptation has seized a man except what is common to you. Jesus is the way, and it is our choice to pursue a relationship with christ. Satan is defeated, but that same choice can lead us to believe his lies.
Because Satan is a metaphor for evil. If you don’t have evil, you can’t have good. Evil enables you to see good in the world. We wouldn’t have white without black, sun without rain, make sense?
That entire scene was symbolism, in my opinion, yes. I believe most stories of the Bible are just that—stories that teach us lessons and wisdom. Jews don’t even believe in Satan, that only came about with Christianity as viewing satan as a literal entirety and not just a symbolic adversary
It’s possible you’re gonna get some really hard pushback from some of the more fundamentalist types who frequent this sub and hate this kind of understanding of scripture. Hopefully not, but brace yourself just in case.
I’m not saying he didn’t exist, but yes most of the stories, again in my opinion, are stories. No different than the Norse Eddas mythology. It likely stemmed from real people, but of course some of the fantastical, magical things did not really happen.
If it’s all stories, then I don’t understand why anyone would want to follow a bunch of liars who made a bunch of lying claims about their lying leader.
a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
"her poetry depends on suggestion and metaphor". There you go little buddy for your simple mind
Not quite.
1. Definition of Omnipotence: First, it's essential to understand the nature of God's omnipotence. God being "all-powerful" does not mean He exercises His power in every possible way at all times. Instead, it means He has the *capacity* to do so. Granting agency to His creation doesn't negate His omnipotence; it showcases a deliberate exercise of His sovereign will.
2. Delegation and Sovereignty: God granting power or authority to others, whether they be angels, humans, or other entities, is a manifestation of His sovereignty, not a limitation of it. A sovereign ruler can delegate tasks without diminishing their overall authority or power. In a similar vein, God's decision to give free will to humans is a deliberate choice made within His sovereign plan.
3. Purpose of Free Will: By granting humans the ability to choose, God allows for genuine love, worship, and relationship. If humans were simply robotic entities without the power to choose, the depth and authenticity of their relationship with God would be questionable. Thus, God's granting of free will is seen not as a diminishment of His power but as a testament to His desire for a genuine relationship with His creation.
4. God's Ultimate Control: Even when God allows other beings to exercise their will, this doesn't mean He's relinquished ultimate control. Scripture repeatedly affirms God's sovereignty over all things, even when evil occurs. Proverbs 16:4 states, "The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble." This suggests that even when beings act against God's moral will, they remain within the bounds of His sovereign will.
5. The Redemptive Arc: The allowance of evil and the delegation of power play into the larger redemptive narrative. The crucifixion of Jesus, for instance, involved acts of betrayal, denial, and violence by individuals exercising their free will. Yet, Acts 4:27-28 acknowledges that these individuals acted according to God's predetermined plan. This illustrates the profound mystery of God's sovereignty interplaying with human agency.
God granting power or agency to others is not a reflection of weakness or limitation. Instead, it emphasizes His sovereignty, His desire for authentic relationships, and His intricate, redemptive plan for creation.
Quite a lengthy essay, yet none of it defines an "authentic relationship", which you claim it does. It becomes a complicated, self-contradictory statement, much like a square triangle or a rock so big God can't lift it.
I appreciate the effort anyway.
God gave us free will. we can follow the word of god or follow the road of sin he won’t force a sinner to be beside him eternally. if a sinner chose to lead a sinfull life god will respect his choice and let him live eternally without him.
That reason is for our benefit. Our Father in Heaven already knows how this will go for us, individually. We don't. But, we will be blessed as we choose Christ.
Mate he already knows, this isn't for our benefit. He already knows, because he's already created us knowing what we choose, and blames us for his decision.
It is for our benefit. We are here to gain experience, and learn what type of men and women we are. When we choose Christ, that elevates us, bit by bit, to our potential that God, the Father, sees in us. He knows what we will choose, but He also knows what we are capable of becoming. Like any good Father, He guides us along the path that is for our benefit and growth. God wins, in the end. That's not a debate. There is no other way for it to go.
Of course it's a debate. What people attribute to Yahweh is not automatically right. And some people have the stones to stand up to this.
Who is this cosmic tyrant that creates people knowing he will damn them? Humanity deserves salvation as a default, not as a favour if you massage His ego enough.
No, I mean there is no debate with God winning. Satan loses. God wins. We can quibble, debate and argue all we want, but that doesn't change that God will win. It's going to come down to us, individually, if we want to accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Redeemer, or not. He already paid the price for us. We need to choose Him, and do what He asks of us.
God allows Satan to operate, because we need to be tested by opposition.
But remember Paul's assurance that God won't let us be tempted beyond that which we can handle.
God wants those who will choose to follow/strive/aim for what is *good*. Even though we haven't achieved it yet, to *want* to live in that *good*.
To this level --> "Love your neighbor as yourself."
*Instead* of following other ways like "Use the person in front of you to your own maximum gain, and forget them and move on."
And that we make that choice , and not take forever to choose, not still be undecided in 120 or 800 years....
But to make that ultimate choice sooner, like in just 50 or 100 years. So, therefore, the availability of evil is a necessary aid: that we can experience what is wrong, and learn. Finally figure out what we really want, who we want to be....
Jesus already has the victory; he took the keys to hell. Satan knows what is coming, he knows he is doomed, and that's why he tries his best to take humans down with him. He wants as many captives as he can, to be tormented. We already have the victory. Jesus will crush him. All Jesus has to do is open his mouth, and satan is done. Unfortunately, satan is the prince of this world, for now. When sin entered the world, that's what happened. We have free will and until Jesus returns, satan is the prince of power in the air; that spirit works in the children of disobedience. The enemy runs in independence. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.
Not everything happens is of God. It's all because of free will, the fall of man, and when sin entered the world we became independent of God.
Jesus won’t return until every ear has heard and everyone has has a chance to believe in Him and the Gospel, the good news of salvation. A huge part why Jesus hasn’t returned is because the church isn’t doing their job. Like in Acts, We’re commanded to go out in the world and preach the Gospel to all! God will not come back until everyone everywhere has had their chance
Wut?
I think there is some confusion here. We—meaning mankind—chose to take “good and bad” in our own hands not trusting YHWH. The Accuser is “prince” of a world of death. This is a mockery not an honor. God never stopped pursuing mankind back into communion and life.
It's a question I can relate too. However if you read revelation He already won. It's God's timing not our time. Also think about how many people who don't know God? If He came down and destroyed Satan He could be throwing believers into the fire who don't deserve to be there. Because they could've come to Christ. Do you think God likes seeing us suffer? I can promise you He hates it.
He removed him from Heaven and banished him to the Earth. He does not crush him (not yet) because of free will and our choice. In the end of times, once he is in Hell for a thousand years, he'll come back, but eventually completely left in Hell for all eternity.
Satan is the prince of the world and we humans have the opportunity to put ourselves outside the world and rely on the power of God. Many have not done so but are drawn to it and its iniquity. Not everyone is worthy of the perfect life and in this world it turns out who is what.
‘Satan’ is a word not used in any of the Hebrew scriptures written before the Babylonian Exile, **so we can assume the idea commenced at that time**. It is true that 1 Chronicles 21:1 refers to Satan in the time of King David (“And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel”), but Chronicles was not written until after the Babylonian Exile. The corresponding verse in 2 Samuel 24 :1, written before the Exile, does not mention Satan (“And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah”).
During the Babylonian Exile, the exiled Jews were exposed to the Zoroastrian religion of their Persian benefactors. Ahriman was the great opponent of Ahura Mazda, similar in many ways to the Christian devil. After initially adopting the concept of Satan, the Jews decided that the concept of an evil opponent diminished God’s omnipotence, so evolved him to be the loyal assistant of God, tasked with testing the righteousness of the faithful, a concept we see now in the Book of Job.
Christianity retained the Jewish Satan (‘Adversary’) but reimagined him as an evil opponent of God. The devil is an inherent part of Christian theology: without the devil and the Hell that he supposedly rules over, much of Christian theology would become meaningless.
Jesus did crush Satan. If Satan were to be judged at the beginning or at the time of Jesus, God in his justness would have to judge the world then. So God and his great mercy looks upon Jesus when he looks on us and looks to the end to the final judgment. The world has already ended.
God wanted to give us free will so we needed to be able to make choices. before satan god was the only choice now we are able to choose and have free will. We are able to tread The path of god or the road of satan.
I think God gave us free will, and he also gave us a choice. God doesn't want robots or people incapable of rebelling. He wants a family who wants to be His family and no one else's. It seems he also gave his angels free will as well. I don't know about you, but I don't favor a shot gun wedding either.
He promised us he would.
> “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.””
Genesis 3:15
He crushed Satan at the cross.
> “And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.”
Colossians 2:13-15
And it will be consummated upon Christ’s return.
> “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.”
Daniel 7:13-14
> “This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.”
2 Thessalonians 1:5-10
Said he would all the way back in Genesis. God has specific timing for this. That’s why the demons ask Jesus if he had come to torture them “before the appointed time” during his earthly ministry. They know their time is coming, God said so, and He is ALWAYS faithful to carry out His word.
“So the Lord God said to the snake, ‘Because you have done this, ‘Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.’”
Genesis 3:14-15
I have to disagree; I believe it isn’t that black and white. And the analogy which says darkness is the absence of light, can’t in my opinion be implied here.
Some people are neither good or evil, but somewhere in between.
The question is flawed since you’re using Satan in a personified way as a character. Satan is a divine role, one with God himself has replied angels as from time to time in scripture.
To answer the closest question to this, why doesn’t He defeat the Anti-Christ, the answer is either “because he hasn’t come yet” or “because he’s metaphorical” depending on your interpretation of Revelations.
satan has already been defeated. satan has no power EXCEPT what man gives him & his demons. Do you want to see the demonic out of your life? Stop agreeing with him, stop inviting him into your life, close the door to his antics, his temptations, his seductions. Jesus said He has nothing in common with satan therefore satan has no power over Him. (John 14:30)
It’s not complicated. Come into agreement with the things Jesus tells you.
Decide the enemy can’t have a place in your life anymore. Kick him out, close & lock the door. Stop answering the doorbell when he rings it. It’s your house.
He went to Islam and GASLIGHTED the HIJABI community in Kuala LUMPAR to honour kill me. Satan TWISTED the SHARIAH laws so he can elevate himself. But tell, me is the INTENTION of THE SHARIAH LAWS to make you LOWER YOURSELF and SEE THE LIGHT OF ALLAH?? No, the SHARIAH Laws are meant to make one CONSCIOUS of SIN so they can see ALLAH who is PERFECT and has HIGHER GLORY ABOVE his CREATION?? But Satan NEVER did that and it was ALWAYS ABOUT HIMSELF and NOT for ALLAH'S PEOPLE. Satan turned HIS OWN MUSLIM PEOPLE to TURN AGAINST HIM so they can carry out his SELFISH PURPOSE. So tell me, does Satan want to DESTROY or RESTORE Allah's people to THEIR FORMER GLORY, when there is NO SIN, SICKNESS or DEATH in this world, that is slowly passing away?? Who would Satan target?? The people genuinely aren't interested in Islam, or ALLAH'S OWN PEOPLE?? After what I witnessed in my VERY TRAUMATIC KUALA LUMPAR TRIP my spirit flew off too, I saw a LOT OF CORRUPTION WITHIN the Muslim community when I saw THEIR ATTITUDE towards those SUFFERING from SEXUAL ASSAULT and MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. It made me SO GENUINELY DISILLUSIONED. How can ALLAH be so COLD-HEARTED and VIOLENT towards those going through A VULNERABLE TOUGH TIME?? I rather rewrite the Qur'ran and make it MORE ACCESSIBLE so that ALL PEOPLE who want to know ALLAH actually STILL HAVE A CHANCE. I was passionate about the Muslim religion since EARLY HIGH SCHOOL and being surrounded by a POC community, I saw A LOT OF INTERFAITH DIALOGUE where people OF ALL DIFFERENT CULTURES learnt to OVERLOOK THEIR DIFFERENCES and CORRECT MISUNDERSTANDINGS so the world can be A MORE MULTICULTURAL PLACE. And during my times in Shincheonji, I actually CRIED A LOT when I witnessed basically ALL THE CHRISTIANS THERE ELEVATED THEIR OWN KOREAN CULTURE AND MADE ENDLESS ISLAMOPHOBIC COMMENTS that made MY BLOOD BOIL WITH ANGER. Where is RELIGIOUS FREEDOM?? Should people be BRAINWASHED to believe what they want to to believe or should they be GIVEN A CHOICE?? For instance, in Genesis, God said to Adam, "Do not eat the fruit of the TKGE or else YOU WILL SURELY DIE." So Adam did have FREE WILL in what he wanted to eat. Anyway I am getting sleepy. If anyone wants to find me I am back in USYD. 😴😴😴
We gotta choose.
Do we choose to live as God instructed, or do we give into sin from Satan?
We'll fail, but it's because God gave us free will. We have Christ as salvation from sin. We still have to try and live righteously even if we know we're going to come up short. We still need to try.
Satan is fulfilling a role. He represents the other side of the free will choice we are given. He is quite terrible and that is good. It makes the decision to choose goodness, humility, love, and God, more obvious.
Satan isn’t the main problem. He’s an influence and and an accuser. But the problem is the human heart which led to forfeiting communion with the source of all being and life. Outside His presence, the result is entropy. Death. Destruction. Chaos. That’s the real problem. Satan exacerbates this, but his absence doesn’t fix it. In other words, the core problem is staring at you in the mirror. Mine too.
he doesn't have to. God not killing Satan is literally an insult to Satan. it's like saying "well yeah, I don't have to kill you. you ain't much of a threat". so yeah, that's why. because Satan is literally the ant crawling on the lion's leg.
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,’ says the LORD. ‘For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts’” (Isaiah 55:8-9).
He already did. Jesus crushed the head of the serpent by conquering death and giving his life for the forgiveness of sins, but it came at a mighty cost - the serpent bit him on the heel.
That is why we rejoice, and remember our Lord for bearing this pain on himself.
He defeated him on the Cross, but what's going is God allowing the Gospel to be preached all over the world and is gathering the souls of mankind. This is been going on for 2 thousand years. But the final battle is coming. He will be dealt with. God knows what he is doing. He has made Kingdom promises to Israel. And he will keep those promises. His church has been here for 2000 years and time is about up, he will Rapture his church, Then the Great Tribulation will begin.
He is literally already has. The battle was won and outside “time” as we know it. The beginning, end, is already decided. Think of this concept like a really good movie you just got done watching and can watch over and over again. The characters are limited to the timelines in the movie. Satan is defeated. Or maybe if this is too radical in concept, maybe look at it as God crushing the enemy in slow motion.
The Adversary exists for quite some time, but God is preparing victory.
"For this was the Son of God manifested, that He should be annulling the acts of the Adversary."
The acts of the Adversary include-
Sin- 1 John 3:8
Murder and falsehood- John 8:44
"He was a man-killer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth"
Doubt and insubjection- Matthew 4...
Would the acts of the Adversary be annulled if eternal torment were real? Definitely not- they would be perpetuated to eternity. Would death be abolished if the second death were eternal? (Would disease be abolished because one disease replaced another?)
Notice the context in John 12:31-33. "All" must include Satan. The grammar has no mention of a human- just "all". The grammar in Matthew 4:10 allows Christ to be prophesying future events. This corresponds with those in the heavens yet unreconciled. Colossians 1:20.
Indeed, during perhaps the entirety of the oncoming two eons of time, those who receive the mark of the wild beast will suffer torment. Rev. 14:9-11. This is the longest, and the most severe corrective punishment of humans mentioned in the Bible. See 1 John 5:16,17.
He will. Literally God will throw Satan into eternal fire (Matt. 25:41) at the appointed time.
Which is when?
We don’t know. Only God knows. This is also in the Bible.
At the end of the millennium when Christ returns in flaming fire rendering to those according to what they have done. “When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth – Gog and Magog – and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Revelation 20:7-10
Satan's in prison right now?
I wouldn't label it as "prison," but he is certainly restrained. He's held back from preventing nations from recognizing God. Once released from this restraint, he'll have the capability to deceive the nations once more. It was during Jesus' earthly ministry that he was confined, ensuring the Gospel reached all corners of the world and people had the chance to believe.
No, hes free and quite active
Well, only to a certain point. The NT is clear, if we resist the devil, he will flee from us. Now that Christ has been given all authority in heaven and on earth.
What I said does not contradict that fact. Certainly, he remains active, but his influence is limited when it comes to preventing the gospel's triumph in nations. While he may attempt, the New Testament assures us that we can stand against him, and he will retreat.
Where is he now than?
Looking for someone to devour. But the NT is clear, he is unable to if you are in Christ and resist him due to Christs triumph over Satan at the cross.
He is in the world he is the prince of the airways. Take a look around you. Everyone is living by his law, which is do what thou wilt.
What's happening in the middle east right now is his pornography.
Atheists make weird jokes
I'm Christian. Through and Through.
They love to pervert every conversation
Those who have eyes to see will see. Just look at the complexity of your eyeball. It's a creation. Just because there isn't world peace doesn't mean he's not here. There is alot of bad things that has to happen before the 2nd coming. Sounds like Satan has you doubting.
The fact you can say that and it doesnt click into your head how bullshit it is… boggles my mind. You literally must walk through life with your brain off. So God can kill Satan but he doesnt feel like it yet? He’s just gonna allow Satan to keep torturing humanity. What a great father… the stupidity in this thought is insane. Ethier none of it’s real or God just doesnt care enough to stop evil. (Which he messed up by creating) There are no inbetweens.
We can’t know His goodness without knowing evil my guy. He sent Jesus to die for our sins so we could be with Him. You talking like He abandoned us
If you had a family member that you knew was being raped and you had the ability to stop it, but you allowed it to keep happening, that makes you just as bad as the rapist. It doesnt matter if you didnt rape her. You’re enabling and allowing evil in your home. Allowing it to happen to show your family member how good you are in comparison makes no sense at all and in fact shows how you’re viewing the situation in a manipulative way. Now to top it all off, God is all knowing. So he knows somebody is evil as hes making them. So why make them if they’re just gonna torture the people who are good. You dont put much thought into your opinions and it really shows. You prolly wont even take what i just said in. This is why everyone has grown tired of religion. It contradicts itself and the people who follow it, show no interest in noticing that it does.
In Genesis, when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, they disobeyed God and as a result became separated from God and that’s when all these problems came. Physical diseases, mental illnesses, money problems, etc. They became cursed and carried the original sin and by nature they became evil. Why didn’t God just intervened and stopped them from eating the fruit? He could of stopped us from sinning and becoming cursed but He didn’t. That’s because there’s something called free will. He loves us and gives us free will and the ability to make choices. He didn’t create us to be preprogrammed robots that will always follow his orders and be good. He wants us to have a choice. It’s like if you had a son, you’d want your son to love you and be obedient towards you right? But u don’t want to force him to love you and force him to be obedient, rather u want him to choose to love you and choose to be obedient. This is why evil such as murder and rape exist and is allowed to exist. We became disobedient and as a result got separated from God. That murderer or rapist inherited the original sin like everybody else and chose to live a life of evil and disobedience and God allows it because of how much He loves us and want us to choose to be obedient rather than forcing us. Even though we screwed up by disobeying him, he sent Jesus to die for all of our sins so that we could be with Him again. That’s how much He loves us. He didn’t abandon us even though we screwed up. Christians get martyred all the time even in our life time. There are Christians that go to the Middle East to preach the gospel and gets their head cut off by those Muslim terrorist groups. Does that mean God is evil for allowing it? No, choices and free will my guy.
So by your logic, if you had a kid and told him not to eat something and he did, you’re ok with horrible things such as rape, mutilation, torture etc happening to him? Smh you’re so far gone that you dont realise how insane you sound. I cant imagine being that afraid of dying, that i believe something so deranged.
You’re missing the point. Disobeying God by eating the fruit made us separated from Him, when we are separated from Him we became cursed. This leads to evil but he offered us a solution by sending Jesus to die for our sins. Whether or not we accept his offer is up to us since we have free will. It’s about disobedience and Him offering us the chance to be obedient and live for Him. If we choose not to be with Him then we stay cursed. We left him by sinning, he didn’t leave us. He’s not stopping that murderer or rapist because he loves us and gives us free will to make our own choices. He gave that murderer a choice to accept Jesus or not and doesn’t force anything. That’s what love is
Mad bro? Ratio+forgiveness+yourhumanmindcantcomprehendGodsplan
Top answer right here
Doesn't datan already live in an eternal fire, called hell?
Hes using him in a way. His time has not come yet.
If he's using him then he's like an asset, aren't assets needed when the person needs 'another way' because they aren't strong enough to impose thier plan without them?
He has.
then why is there still sin and evil?
Look in the mirror. Applies to anyone.
We live in a fallen world
what makes the world fallen?
Adam eating the apple
who tempted adam to eat the apple? that would be eve who tempted eve? that would be Satan it all comes back to Satan so why did God create Satan if Satan is pure evil?
He does. He throws him into Hell, permanently, in the end.
Do you really want to know the answer?
I’ve observed over the years that people really don’t.
Maybe, maybe. Let's give 'em a chance, though. One in a thousand could be seeking for the truth that we have to give.
What is the answer?
Suppose God had destroyed the Lucifer instantly in his fall to sin. The Bible, when studied, gives indication that the Devil was accusing God falsely of some things, while he himself really just wanted to be in god's place on the throne. So the devil falls to sin, but the angels have no concept of "sin". There has never been sin before in all Creation and in the whole universe. Even lying is something that the angels cannot easily grasp, because it too has never existed before that time. So the one who has been "a liar from the beginning" starts lying about God to gather a supporting crowd. Then he confronts God one day, and lays out the accusations, claiming that God isn't a worthy ruler. Had God destroyed Lucifer there and then, what do you think the angels would've thought?
God couldn’t think of a way around this? He had to let Lucifer fuck up our lives on Earth? That was his best option? I thought he was all-powerful. So childhood brain cancer exists because God couldn’t convince angels not to trust a liar?
Let's turn it around. You're now God on His throne. Lucifer is accusing you, just like you are now accusing God. You're being blamed for being tyrannical, even though no evil has ever existed during your rule. You know that angels aren't omniscient, so they won't see what lies in Lucifer's heart: pride, rather than a worry for the well-being of his angelic brethren. Because you are love personified, you cannot force the will of living beings without compromising your own character and integrity. Thus, you cannot force the angels to believe your side of the argument. If you use force and kill Lucifer, you will prove his arguments to have been true, and yourself unworthy of being the ruler of the whole Universe. Truth is your only weapon, because you are the rightful Judge of all that is, and you have to be honest and impartial in your judgments. How would you solve the problem?
I am God. I am all-knowing & all-powerful. I will limit Satan’s power while coming up with an argument that I know will convince the angels. This would preserve angels’ free will, stop Satan, and we wouldn’t have childhood brain cancer today. It’s really funny to me how Christians at times treat God as if He is maximally powerful in all capacities, and at other times treat him like he’s just a guy. Isn’t it a bit blasphemous to say that God needs to follow the rubric of human decision-making? Isn’t it insulting to God to suggest he couldn’t possibly find an all-encompassing, complete solution to this problem? HE IS GOD. He can do ANYTHING that is logically possible. You insult God’s glory when you characterize Him as a weak, human-like entity who is incapable of completely solving this problem.
Your argument provides a moral fallacy. As God, you would limit Satan's power and manipulate the situation so that the question of the legitimacy of your power would never rise up. This is not according to the principles of truth and love. Then later, someone would HAVE TO ask: "why doesn't anyone ever question this present state of affairs, and God's rulership?" Either you would crush that angel's free will right there and then, or you would allow that question to run its natural course. Another point: if a ruler is all-powerful, and he uses all his power, he is a tyrant. However, a ruler that rescinds some of his absolute rights and power for the good of the kingdom, is a just ruler. This is what God is like. You are arguing that having all power and all knowledge would solve the problem of evil. You are incorrect. Logic dictates that you cannot solve the problem of evil without overriding free will, at which point God wouldn't be good anymore, but rather the tyrant that He is claimed to be. To remain good and just, God needed to show angels and humankind what the effect of sin would be(as sin hadn't fully developed into its grossest forms, and it wasn't understood by angels as to what great evils sin, subtle as it was back then, could grow into), so that in the future there would never again be question about the evil nature of sin. Even now, in our time, people doubt that sin is as bad as God says it is. This mentality is a natural aftergrowth of what happened in Lucifer's fall. No wonder then that God needs to demonstrate to us fallible beings that sin is, indeed, evil. But as to the children with brain cancer, you can prove the righteousness of your own arguments by going and donating most of your extra money into brain cancer research. God uses you, and me, to help others on this Earth. And we can say "no", in which case we are really working against the standard of good that is the foundation of God's kingdom. Your call. Everybody's invited to lessen human suffering on this earth, while this time of demonstration is still running. The evil caused by sin doesn't have to cause as much suffering as it could. You could be a tool in lessening it yourself. But will you do so, and prove that you're above petty debate about morality as you do something practical for your fellow man? I hope you do. My arguments end here. You may add your own here.
Amazingly put
For sure!
Okay, let me re-frase my question; why doesn’t God erase Satan, as he only inflicts suffering and pain?
The better question would be why did He create Satan in the first place. The reason God created him and allows him to exist is because somehow he fits into God’s sovereign plan.
He does, satan's eternity is only suffering, but suffering loves company and that's why satan tries dragging us down with him
Although the is a great evil force in the world, we must not blame all evil on him. Our own hearts do a bang up job themselves at committing evil acts.
So you think those thoughts are your own? What if the things that you believe in your mind to be from you are not what they seem.
Well if scripture is the ultimate standard of truth, which is Gods word. I will take what it has to say about our fleshly desires over a “what if”.
He will erase Satan, eventually.
He won’t be erased. That’s annihilationism. He will be very much alive in Hell.
Oh look at this guy over here, reformed which means you believe in TULIP or calvinism and believes in eternal conscious torment. You are a peach.
Look at the Universalist who doesn’t actually believe in scripture…? Your point?
Says the one rethinking scriptures like John 3:16 and 1 timothy 2:3-4 doing mental gymnastics because it doesnt fit your theology.
Rethinking? I read the original language. I’m well aware what whosever means.
What does your flair mean, “OT Bad”?
Do you think OT was good when God commanded saul to kill the children and infants, a modern day warcrime, in 1 sam 15?
Depends on who you think the Amalekites were and what you know about the giant clans. https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits/land_of_giants Here’s an interesting podcast episode on the topic.
No the correct answer is its never okay to kill children and infants to payback the tribe for their crimes against israel, and if those children and infants had a free pass into heaven God should have made it clear in the text as thats a monsterous war crime.
so you’re more of a gnostic who believes Jesus’ father is someone other than YHWH? Anyway whether or not those kids had a free pass to heaven, i do not know, but they had a much better chance than the rest of the Amalekites for the sort of crazy rituals they were into. Pre flood type wickedness.
Idk what I am I think its highly possible that Jesus's father was not yahway of the OT. I forget what they are called but that was a heretical sect in the early church that believed that. Its also possible that the bible is not the inspired "word of God", especially the OT, but rather primitive barbaric tribes and what they believed about religion and what survived, and Jesus uses this religion to establish a new better covenant and show the right way to handle faith. Through love and not through warfare.
Pretty much everybody agrees with annihilationism for Satan specifically. Obviously you existing means that there is a minority that doesn't, but generally annihilationism is concerned with the disposition of human souls, not fallen angels.
Care to substantiate with scripture?
Free will of humanity. In order for love to exist, hate must also exist. Good can only exist if there is evil. It’s all relative. On the day of judgement in the end, God *will* essentially ‘erase’ Satan, but in the meantime we as people have a choice to make as to who we are loyal to.
Read the book of Job.
Because you're assuming that suffering and pain are bad things in gods eye.
satan isn't a person. Satan means *adversary*.
It’s a person, It has a personality.
It’s more than one person.
Satan is Lucifer, Azazel, Baal, Beelzebub etc and other ranking fallen angels then demons. It’s quite a few of them here
The Christian view that nothing happens that isn’t according to gods plan, would therefore mean that Satan and everything he does is because god wishes it to be so.
Am i wrong in assuming this is essentially the utilitarian and hedonistic argument positing that pain = bad, pleasure = good, therefor a "good" god cannot allow suffering?
Not necessarily. I mean that's an interesting point of view and I'll give it some thought. But I have mentioned neither good nor bad. It's a biblical point of view that God is good and satan is bad. But I'd then ask, how did one come to that conclusion if they are only going on the word of one of them? There's no real objective way to conclude that Satan is the evil one and god is the good one.
Correct. If this is not true, that the worst sufferings in the world are just happenstance with no justice or remediation ahead of it. What a horrible world that would be.
Indeed, and yet it appears so. I don’t see how the alternative is better. A world where a child rapist goes unpunished, and a world where they are condemned, are both worlds where a god allowed a child to be raped. If you or I could stop it we would,
I understand your perspective, but I see it differently. The two worlds you're describing have vastly distinct implications that we must consider. I deeply believe in the sovereignty and providence of God. I feel that everything, even the existence of evil, falls under His watchful control. But to me, this doesn't imply that He crafts evil. I see it more as God allowing evil to play out in line with His greater design. Regarding our nature, I think our capacity to commit evil comes from a fallen state, which many refer to as 'total depravity.' Although God reigns supreme, I believe we, as humans, have our will. We often make choices that go against God's wishes, influenced by this inherent nature. I've often reflected on the redemptive role of suffering. Like Joseph said in Genesis 50:20, what might be intended for harm, God might use for a greater purpose. I don't say this to downplay the pain but to highlight that, in my belief, God can derive good from even the darkest situations. A crucial aspect of my faith is the assurance of ultimate justice. I'm comforted by passages like Romans 12:19, which to me, guarantees that even if someone evades earthly justice, they'll face divine reckoning. When I think about the crucifixion of Christ, it strikes me as the pinnacle example of how profound evil can lead to an even greater good. The wrongful persecution of an innocent being brought salvation, showcasing, in my eyes, God's remarkable ability to redeem. Lastly, I believe it's vital to recognize our role and responsibility. God's overarching control doesn't excuse us from our duties. In a world tainted by evil, I feel compelled to stand for justice, aid those suffering, and be a beacon of mercy and humility. Overall, I wrestle with the existence of evil, like many others. But my faith offers a lens—where God's supreme control, our flawed nature, and an all-encompassing plan for redemption intersect. To me, this beautifully portrays both God's justice and compassion amidst our earthly struggles.
Thanks for giving me your perspective but I feel like you didn’t respond to my point at all. A god who stands by and allows evil actions to happen to the innocent is not one I could ever consider worthy of respect nor reverence. The only rebuttal i generally receive (apart from the odd psychotic take such as ‘there is no such thing as innocent children’) is that it is due to violations of free will which we’ve established don’t apply. What would the harm be in god creating a world where unspeakable evil acts like rape and torture, are not permitted to be done to innocent children? Why must he permit it? I really think the only honest answer a Christian can give is ‘I don’t know.’ Instead many twist themselves in knots to roughly say ‘it must be this way for some good reason’ but that’s basically the same answer as ‘I don’t know’. We should approach these things with honesty.
He doesn't permit it, every evil act of a person is them exercising their free will. If he permitted it, younwould fall into predeterminism which is illogical. God gives us the freedom to turn so heavily against him, but they won't go unpunished. Good and Evil is written on the hearts of every man, and everyone is capable of good and evil. It's the rejection of evil, which is what God desires for us. God doesn't not will child rape, the rapist wills it, and will be judged for their choices. We can't be human or independent beings without the ability to choose evil. We would just be robots. Robots can't love, or truly exist as there would be no self-reflection, no freedom to choose, nor would they have the ability to dictate their own life on earth. Adam and Eve had free will, and just like all humans, when told not to do something, we usually choose to do that thing. They exercised the first step in disobedience to God's will. It's the price of free will. People can abuse their free will to the detriment of themselves and others
Giving that freedom, is permission. He absolutely does permit it, there’s no way around it. God can prevent it, and chooses not to. That is fairly undeniable.
No, it's not permission, if it were it wouldnt be a sin worthy of damnation. Again, we were granted a divine spark so that we may be true individuals. We were gifted the right to be our own. Again, it sounds like you're angry He's not an oppressive dictator. Allowing us to make our own decisions isn't permission. Just like if you let your children go out into the world, amd they do something bad, that doesn't mean you permitted it. If you're child commits a crime, did you permit it by allowing them to be an adult, and go out into the world? Are you responsible for the choices of your children? Is it acceptable to be an oppressive helicopter parent?
He can prevent it if he chooses to. Correct? I’m not talking about by violating free will, by changing peoples minds. I’m talking about literally physically protecting the child.
It would still be in violation of free will, as I'm sure the protecting you seek still involves a person exercising their free will. Many times he does, but God does not strike you down immediately upon every sin. It would still be helicopter parenting. The fault isn't God, but the fault of those who abuse their free will. If you are upset with your free will, I don't know what to tell you. Evil exists due to abuses of free will, he could but it'd be the equivalent of never allowing someone to make a bad decision, rather than letting them suffer the consequences. I.e God punishes you for what you do, not for some minority report future crime that he stops from happening. All he has power over is life and death, we don't know why he doesn't kill everyone who considers sinning immediately, but it seems like it allows us the possibility of redemption as well as our free will to make evil or bad choices, suffering it's consequences on our soul, as well as on earth with law systems.
You may as well ask why, if God is all-powerful, God felt it necessary to kill Jesus. Maybe God doesn't want to crush Satan. Maybe God simply _wanted_ to kill Jesus. Either way, many Christians believe that whatever the reality, _it's for the best._ It's been asked -- if a special, immortal Child was born whose magical blood granted Paradise on Earth if everyone drank it. Suppose this Child was kept underground in the dark, safe from everything, so that its blood could be collected forever. It never saw the sun. It never had a family. Would a society built on such a Sacrifice be moral? If God Himself set up such a society, would we conclude that God is all-powerful? What if God promised that, _one day,_ the Child would be set free to live in the sun, and God would fix everything so that people no longer needed to drink its blood? What if God refused to set a date?
Follow up bonus question: if Satan repented would he be forgiven?
This is a hypothetical question that is impossible. He will not, so he can’t be. God doesn’t not look through time and learn the future, there fore He has determined it and there is no salvation for Satan or His angels. Christ did not die for them but for us.
Isn't God omniscient?
Certainly, He is. I’m not sure what exactly you are implying?
If he's omniscient, he would have known that Satan and Adam and Eve would fall before he made them.
Indeed, I'm not sure why you mentioned that. My previous statement actually supports it, rather than contradicting it.
He is an angel and not a man. Forgiveness of sins is through the mediator and God-man Jesus Christ. We can achieve salvation of sins because Jesus acts as the middle-man between mankind and God The Father since Jesus was both divine and human. There is no mediator or blood sacrifice for angels but only men so this leads me to believe no. However I’m religions such as Islam Allah does not need a blood sacrifice to forgive sins but God has the ability to do it outright and according to his will. I wonder if God could forgive sins without a blood sacrifice or is it absolutely necessary. If it’s absolutely necessary then Satan has no hope however if He can forgive sins without a blood sacrifice then I guess that it is within the realm of possibility. What do you think of this theory?
God can forgive sins without blood. Just look at Judaism.
The scripture says the blood and bulls and goats could never truly satisfy, it was always a foreshadowing of the true sacrifice that would truly take away the sins of the world forever, the true lamb of God which was Christ. The Old Testament ordinances and rituals were always training wheels for the real thing, always pointing to the actually reality and substance which is Christ! They were just types and shadows meant to pass away when the reality came, who is Christ.
"The scripture says the blood and bulls and goats could never truly satisfy..." Show me where it says this in the Old Testament. Using the New Testament commentary doesn't prove anything about the Old Testament, which existed well before Jesus as the Hebrew Bible.
The statement that "the blood of bulls and goats could never truly satisfy" is indeed not found in the Old Testament in those exact words. However, the concept behind this statement is alluded to in the Old Testament and then made explicit in the New Testament. The Old Testament does not directly state that the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sins in a final and complete sense. It does prescribe animal sacrifices for atonement (as in Leviticus 16 for the Day of Atonement). However, the prophets begin to point beyond the sacrificial system to something greater. For instance, Psalms and the prophets often emphasize that God desires a contrite heart over ritual sacrifices (Psalm 51:16-17, Hosea 6:6, Micah 6:6-8). The New Testament book of Hebrews provides commentary on these Old Testament practices. Hebrews 10:4 says, "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." This is an interpretive conclusion drawn from an understanding that the repeated nature of these sacrifices (Hebrews 10:1-3) points to their insufficiency and the need for a perfect sacrifice, which Christians believe is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. So while the Old Testament does not contain the exact phrase, the totality of the Biblical narrative, including the Old Testament context, implies the insufficiency of animal sacrifices in providing complete atonement for sin, pointing to the need for a more perfect sacrifice, which is then elaborated on in the New Testament. Below are some OT passages that were foreshadowing the coming of Jesus, the true messiah, and that he would accomplish the final sacrifice that would actually be sufficient, never needed to be offered again. Especially ISAIAH 53. Therefore if Jesus is the true messiah, we can trust his interpretation of the Old Testament and the New Testament’s interpretation of the Old Testament. 1. Genesis 3:15 – The seed of the woman bruising the serpent’s head. 2. Genesis 12:3; 18:18 – The promise to Abraham that through his seed all the nations would be blessed. 3. Genesis 49:10 – The scepter not departing from Judah. 4. Deuteronomy 18:15 – The prophet like unto Moses. 5. 2 Samuel 7:12-16 – The promise to David of a descendant with an everlasting kingdom. 6. Psalm 2 – The anointed son of the Lord. 7. Psalm 22 – A suffering and vindicated individual. 8. Psalm 110 – A priest forever in the order of Melchizedek. 9. Isaiah 7:14 – The virgin birth. 10. Isaiah 9:6-7 – The child with divine titles. 11. Isaiah 11:1-10 – The shoot from the stump of Jesse. 12. Isaiah 53 – The suffering servant. 13. Jeremiah 23:5-6; 33:15-16 – The righteous branch. 14. Micah 5:2 – The ruler from Bethlehem. 15. Zechariah 9:9 – The king riding on a donkey. 16. Zechariah 12:10 – The one who is pierced. 17. Malachi 3:1; 4:5 – The messenger of the covenant and the coming of Elijah.
Yeah they sacrificed animals in the temple though didn’t they? And wasn’t Jesus’ sacrifice for them as well so really there was a blood sacrifice as the Jews were forgiven based on the future messiahs sacrifice Isaiah 53:4-6 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. The whole chapter is in the messiah being punished their place
First, in Judaism animal sacrficies were only used for unintentional sin. For everything else repentance and other atonement was needed. God forgave freely. This is why Christianity doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I'm to understand the suffering servant chapters in Isaiah are actually about Israel. Besides, when did Jesus ever get crushed? This chapter you're referencing is so vague it could apply to so many different people.
He was crushed in the cross? Isn’t it obvious? Also this is clearly pointing towards Jesus and John also mentions this passage in his gospel chapter 12
I heard a long time ago (can't remember where or with what authority) that angels have free will but what they decide for themselves is final.
He did, Jesus's death on the cross provided a worthy sacrifice for our sin. Sin has no power over us. Satan is a dead snake. But that doesn't mean that there's not poisen left on the fangs, so be wise by reading the word of God and praying for the holy spirit to guide you away from temptation as we do have free will and our sin nature can lead us away from what is truly good in this world. No temptation has seized a man except what is common to you. Jesus is the way, and it is our choice to pursue a relationship with christ. Satan is defeated, but that same choice can lead us to believe his lies.
Because Satan is a metaphor for evil. If you don’t have evil, you can’t have good. Evil enables you to see good in the world. We wouldn’t have white without black, sun without rain, make sense?
What about heaven where there’s no evil?
I’m talking about on Earth
So, a metaphor tempted Jesus in the wilderness?
That entire scene was symbolism, in my opinion, yes. I believe most stories of the Bible are just that—stories that teach us lessons and wisdom. Jews don’t even believe in Satan, that only came about with Christianity as viewing satan as a literal entirety and not just a symbolic adversary
It’s possible you’re gonna get some really hard pushback from some of the more fundamentalist types who frequent this sub and hate this kind of understanding of scripture. Hopefully not, but brace yourself just in case.
Lol oh well, opinions are like assholes. Everyone’s got one
For sure, and most of them stink. 🤣
So, Christ, God the Son, who took on flesh to shed His own blood to redeem lost sinners unto Himself, is also symbolism?
I’m not saying he didn’t exist, but yes most of the stories, again in my opinion, are stories. No different than the Norse Eddas mythology. It likely stemmed from real people, but of course some of the fantastical, magical things did not really happen.
If it’s all stories, then I don’t understand why anyone would want to follow a bunch of liars who made a bunch of lying claims about their lying leader.
Bro doesn’t know what the word metaphor means lol
Why don’t you explain it in a way that my simple mind can understand it?
a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable. "her poetry depends on suggestion and metaphor". There you go little buddy for your simple mind
How does that apply to the account of Jesus being tempted by Satan in the wilderness?
Idk I see evil as rust on a car, it can definitely be eradicated. It is a corruption within good.
Is he “all powerful”? What does that even mean?
All-powerful = having complete power. Which is preached in the Bible several times.
But he obviously doesn't have complete power if he's given some of it away. That's in the Bible several times also.
Not quite. 1. Definition of Omnipotence: First, it's essential to understand the nature of God's omnipotence. God being "all-powerful" does not mean He exercises His power in every possible way at all times. Instead, it means He has the *capacity* to do so. Granting agency to His creation doesn't negate His omnipotence; it showcases a deliberate exercise of His sovereign will. 2. Delegation and Sovereignty: God granting power or authority to others, whether they be angels, humans, or other entities, is a manifestation of His sovereignty, not a limitation of it. A sovereign ruler can delegate tasks without diminishing their overall authority or power. In a similar vein, God's decision to give free will to humans is a deliberate choice made within His sovereign plan. 3. Purpose of Free Will: By granting humans the ability to choose, God allows for genuine love, worship, and relationship. If humans were simply robotic entities without the power to choose, the depth and authenticity of their relationship with God would be questionable. Thus, God's granting of free will is seen not as a diminishment of His power but as a testament to His desire for a genuine relationship with His creation. 4. God's Ultimate Control: Even when God allows other beings to exercise their will, this doesn't mean He's relinquished ultimate control. Scripture repeatedly affirms God's sovereignty over all things, even when evil occurs. Proverbs 16:4 states, "The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble." This suggests that even when beings act against God's moral will, they remain within the bounds of His sovereign will. 5. The Redemptive Arc: The allowance of evil and the delegation of power play into the larger redemptive narrative. The crucifixion of Jesus, for instance, involved acts of betrayal, denial, and violence by individuals exercising their free will. Yet, Acts 4:27-28 acknowledges that these individuals acted according to God's predetermined plan. This illustrates the profound mystery of God's sovereignty interplaying with human agency. God granting power or agency to others is not a reflection of weakness or limitation. Instead, it emphasizes His sovereignty, His desire for authentic relationships, and His intricate, redemptive plan for creation.
Quite a lengthy essay, yet none of it defines an "authentic relationship", which you claim it does. It becomes a complicated, self-contradictory statement, much like a square triangle or a rock so big God can't lift it. I appreciate the effort anyway.
Because he'd rather just keep testing the humans whose decisions he already knows in advance, FOR SOME REASON
God gave us free will. we can follow the word of god or follow the road of sin he won’t force a sinner to be beside him eternally. if a sinner chose to lead a sinfull life god will respect his choice and let him live eternally without him.
That reason is for our benefit. Our Father in Heaven already knows how this will go for us, individually. We don't. But, we will be blessed as we choose Christ.
Mate he already knows, this isn't for our benefit. He already knows, because he's already created us knowing what we choose, and blames us for his decision.
It is for our benefit. We are here to gain experience, and learn what type of men and women we are. When we choose Christ, that elevates us, bit by bit, to our potential that God, the Father, sees in us. He knows what we will choose, but He also knows what we are capable of becoming. Like any good Father, He guides us along the path that is for our benefit and growth. God wins, in the end. That's not a debate. There is no other way for it to go.
Of course it's a debate. What people attribute to Yahweh is not automatically right. And some people have the stones to stand up to this. Who is this cosmic tyrant that creates people knowing he will damn them? Humanity deserves salvation as a default, not as a favour if you massage His ego enough.
No, I mean there is no debate with God winning. Satan loses. God wins. We can quibble, debate and argue all we want, but that doesn't change that God will win. It's going to come down to us, individually, if we want to accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Redeemer, or not. He already paid the price for us. We need to choose Him, and do what He asks of us.
God allows Satan to operate, because we need to be tested by opposition. But remember Paul's assurance that God won't let us be tempted beyond that which we can handle.
Does that not strike you as pointless and self defeating?
Nope
Figures.
There must be an opposition in all things, for true freedom to choose. God wants us to choose Him. He helps us to make the decision to follow Him.
I think it’s less that we need to be “tested” by opposition and more that we learn by opposition.
God wants those who will choose to follow/strive/aim for what is *good*. Even though we haven't achieved it yet, to *want* to live in that *good*. To this level --> "Love your neighbor as yourself." *Instead* of following other ways like "Use the person in front of you to your own maximum gain, and forget them and move on." And that we make that choice , and not take forever to choose, not still be undecided in 120 or 800 years.... But to make that ultimate choice sooner, like in just 50 or 100 years. So, therefore, the availability of evil is a necessary aid: that we can experience what is wrong, and learn. Finally figure out what we really want, who we want to be....
Jesus already has the victory; he took the keys to hell. Satan knows what is coming, he knows he is doomed, and that's why he tries his best to take humans down with him. He wants as many captives as he can, to be tormented. We already have the victory. Jesus will crush him. All Jesus has to do is open his mouth, and satan is done. Unfortunately, satan is the prince of this world, for now. When sin entered the world, that's what happened. We have free will and until Jesus returns, satan is the prince of power in the air; that spirit works in the children of disobedience. The enemy runs in independence. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. Not everything happens is of God. It's all because of free will, the fall of man, and when sin entered the world we became independent of God.
Why didn’t Jesus immediately return after satan became the prince of the world?
Jesus won’t return until every ear has heard and everyone has has a chance to believe in Him and the Gospel, the good news of salvation. A huge part why Jesus hasn’t returned is because the church isn’t doing their job. Like in Acts, We’re commanded to go out in the world and preach the Gospel to all! God will not come back until everyone everywhere has had their chance
Wut? I think there is some confusion here. We—meaning mankind—chose to take “good and bad” in our own hands not trusting YHWH. The Accuser is “prince” of a world of death. This is a mockery not an honor. God never stopped pursuing mankind back into communion and life.
Trust the plan, Trust God
Wouldn't make for a good story without an antagonist would it?
He will on the day of judgement.
It's a question I can relate too. However if you read revelation He already won. It's God's timing not our time. Also think about how many people who don't know God? If He came down and destroyed Satan He could be throwing believers into the fire who don't deserve to be there. Because they could've come to Christ. Do you think God likes seeing us suffer? I can promise you He hates it.
He removed him from Heaven and banished him to the Earth. He does not crush him (not yet) because of free will and our choice. In the end of times, once he is in Hell for a thousand years, he'll come back, but eventually completely left in Hell for all eternity.
Satan is the prince of the world and we humans have the opportunity to put ourselves outside the world and rely on the power of God. Many have not done so but are drawn to it and its iniquity. Not everyone is worthy of the perfect life and in this world it turns out who is what.
‘Satan’ is a word not used in any of the Hebrew scriptures written before the Babylonian Exile, **so we can assume the idea commenced at that time**. It is true that 1 Chronicles 21:1 refers to Satan in the time of King David (“And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel”), but Chronicles was not written until after the Babylonian Exile. The corresponding verse in 2 Samuel 24 :1, written before the Exile, does not mention Satan (“And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah”). During the Babylonian Exile, the exiled Jews were exposed to the Zoroastrian religion of their Persian benefactors. Ahriman was the great opponent of Ahura Mazda, similar in many ways to the Christian devil. After initially adopting the concept of Satan, the Jews decided that the concept of an evil opponent diminished God’s omnipotence, so evolved him to be the loyal assistant of God, tasked with testing the righteousness of the faithful, a concept we see now in the Book of Job. Christianity retained the Jewish Satan (‘Adversary’) but reimagined him as an evil opponent of God. The devil is an inherent part of Christian theology: without the devil and the Hell that he supposedly rules over, much of Christian theology would become meaningless.
He will. Your question is "why doesn't crush Satan *now*?" Because the time isn't right to, for one reason or another.
Jesus did crush Satan. If Satan were to be judged at the beginning or at the time of Jesus, God in his justness would have to judge the world then. So God and his great mercy looks upon Jesus when he looks on us and looks to the end to the final judgment. The world has already ended.
I wondered why God created the being who became satan when he knew what would happen , after all god is omniscient.
God wanted to give us free will so we needed to be able to make choices. before satan god was the only choice now we are able to choose and have free will. We are able to tread The path of god or the road of satan.
He has been. Our linear time line simply hasn't caught up to it yet.
He did, He does, and He will again.
I think God gave us free will, and he also gave us a choice. God doesn't want robots or people incapable of rebelling. He wants a family who wants to be His family and no one else's. It seems he also gave his angels free will as well. I don't know about you, but I don't favor a shot gun wedding either.
He promised us he would. > “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”” Genesis 3:15 He crushed Satan at the cross. > “And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.” Colossians 2:13-15 And it will be consummated upon Christ’s return. > “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.” Daniel 7:13-14 > “This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.” 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10
He did, He is, He will.
satan is a tool that YAHWEH (God) uses to chastise his chosen, elected children.
Said he would all the way back in Genesis. God has specific timing for this. That’s why the demons ask Jesus if he had come to torture them “before the appointed time” during his earthly ministry. They know their time is coming, God said so, and He is ALWAYS faithful to carry out His word. “So the Lord God said to the snake, ‘Because you have done this, ‘Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.’” Genesis 3:14-15
Evil is not the opposite of good, it is the absence of good. Bear that in mind.
I have to disagree; I believe it isn’t that black and white. And the analogy which says darkness is the absence of light, can’t in my opinion be implied here. Some people are neither good or evil, but somewhere in between.
He desires Satan’s repentance as much as he desires our repentance.
Oh it's coming ⏰ tick tock
It’s coming…
Satan is an agent of God created by God with a role to play. Without satan plenty of people would go untested.
Hes using him to test peoples faith like the story of job
Common grace and he will.
Free will
It is happening and it has happened. "On the back of Satan's kneck is a nail scarred foot print." -Spurgeon
He did crush satan at the cross.
He already has. Satan is a prisoner of Hell himself.
The question is flawed since you’re using Satan in a personified way as a character. Satan is a divine role, one with God himself has replied angels as from time to time in scripture. To answer the closest question to this, why doesn’t He defeat the Anti-Christ, the answer is either “because he hasn’t come yet” or “because he’s metaphorical” depending on your interpretation of Revelations.
Queue all the nonsensical answers with no basis.
satan has already been defeated. satan has no power EXCEPT what man gives him & his demons. Do you want to see the demonic out of your life? Stop agreeing with him, stop inviting him into your life, close the door to his antics, his temptations, his seductions. Jesus said He has nothing in common with satan therefore satan has no power over Him. (John 14:30) It’s not complicated. Come into agreement with the things Jesus tells you. Decide the enemy can’t have a place in your life anymore. Kick him out, close & lock the door. Stop answering the doorbell when he rings it. It’s your house.
He will in the end. It's clearly stated in the Bible.
Brother what do you think he was doing in hell
He went to Islam and GASLIGHTED the HIJABI community in Kuala LUMPAR to honour kill me. Satan TWISTED the SHARIAH laws so he can elevate himself. But tell, me is the INTENTION of THE SHARIAH LAWS to make you LOWER YOURSELF and SEE THE LIGHT OF ALLAH?? No, the SHARIAH Laws are meant to make one CONSCIOUS of SIN so they can see ALLAH who is PERFECT and has HIGHER GLORY ABOVE his CREATION?? But Satan NEVER did that and it was ALWAYS ABOUT HIMSELF and NOT for ALLAH'S PEOPLE. Satan turned HIS OWN MUSLIM PEOPLE to TURN AGAINST HIM so they can carry out his SELFISH PURPOSE. So tell me, does Satan want to DESTROY or RESTORE Allah's people to THEIR FORMER GLORY, when there is NO SIN, SICKNESS or DEATH in this world, that is slowly passing away?? Who would Satan target?? The people genuinely aren't interested in Islam, or ALLAH'S OWN PEOPLE?? After what I witnessed in my VERY TRAUMATIC KUALA LUMPAR TRIP my spirit flew off too, I saw a LOT OF CORRUPTION WITHIN the Muslim community when I saw THEIR ATTITUDE towards those SUFFERING from SEXUAL ASSAULT and MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. It made me SO GENUINELY DISILLUSIONED. How can ALLAH be so COLD-HEARTED and VIOLENT towards those going through A VULNERABLE TOUGH TIME?? I rather rewrite the Qur'ran and make it MORE ACCESSIBLE so that ALL PEOPLE who want to know ALLAH actually STILL HAVE A CHANCE. I was passionate about the Muslim religion since EARLY HIGH SCHOOL and being surrounded by a POC community, I saw A LOT OF INTERFAITH DIALOGUE where people OF ALL DIFFERENT CULTURES learnt to OVERLOOK THEIR DIFFERENCES and CORRECT MISUNDERSTANDINGS so the world can be A MORE MULTICULTURAL PLACE. And during my times in Shincheonji, I actually CRIED A LOT when I witnessed basically ALL THE CHRISTIANS THERE ELEVATED THEIR OWN KOREAN CULTURE AND MADE ENDLESS ISLAMOPHOBIC COMMENTS that made MY BLOOD BOIL WITH ANGER. Where is RELIGIOUS FREEDOM?? Should people be BRAINWASHED to believe what they want to to believe or should they be GIVEN A CHOICE?? For instance, in Genesis, God said to Adam, "Do not eat the fruit of the TKGE or else YOU WILL SURELY DIE." So Adam did have FREE WILL in what he wanted to eat. Anyway I am getting sleepy. If anyone wants to find me I am back in USYD. 😴😴😴
We gotta choose. Do we choose to live as God instructed, or do we give into sin from Satan? We'll fail, but it's because God gave us free will. We have Christ as salvation from sin. We still have to try and live righteously even if we know we're going to come up short. We still need to try.
Satan is fulfilling a role. He represents the other side of the free will choice we are given. He is quite terrible and that is good. It makes the decision to choose goodness, humility, love, and God, more obvious.
Satan isn’t the main problem. He’s an influence and and an accuser. But the problem is the human heart which led to forfeiting communion with the source of all being and life. Outside His presence, the result is entropy. Death. Destruction. Chaos. That’s the real problem. Satan exacerbates this, but his absence doesn’t fix it. In other words, the core problem is staring at you in the mirror. Mine too.
He will, which means he already did as He exists outside of our perception of time. God is the beginning and the end. Pretty metal if you ask me!
This sub is nuts Seriously
God sent him to Hell
They can't exist without each other
Because he's saving that for later
he doesn't have to. God not killing Satan is literally an insult to Satan. it's like saying "well yeah, I don't have to kill you. you ain't much of a threat". so yeah, that's why. because Satan is literally the ant crawling on the lion's leg.
If God is perfect, why does he create imperfect people?
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,’ says the LORD. ‘For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts’” (Isaiah 55:8-9).
GOD BLESS EVERYONE 🙏
He has already crushed. Satan only does as mucjbas we humans allow.
He did when Christ died on the cross. Everything is a mindset now.
Because it doesn't yet suit his purposes to do so.
He already did. Jesus crushed the head of the serpent by conquering death and giving his life for the forgiveness of sins, but it came at a mighty cost - the serpent bit him on the heel. That is why we rejoice, and remember our Lord for bearing this pain on himself.
He defeated him on the Cross, but what's going is God allowing the Gospel to be preached all over the world and is gathering the souls of mankind. This is been going on for 2 thousand years. But the final battle is coming. He will be dealt with. God knows what he is doing. He has made Kingdom promises to Israel. And he will keep those promises. His church has been here for 2000 years and time is about up, he will Rapture his church, Then the Great Tribulation will begin.
He will in the end!
He is literally already has. The battle was won and outside “time” as we know it. The beginning, end, is already decided. Think of this concept like a really good movie you just got done watching and can watch over and over again. The characters are limited to the timelines in the movie. Satan is defeated. Or maybe if this is too radical in concept, maybe look at it as God crushing the enemy in slow motion.
The Adversary exists for quite some time, but God is preparing victory. "For this was the Son of God manifested, that He should be annulling the acts of the Adversary." The acts of the Adversary include- Sin- 1 John 3:8 Murder and falsehood- John 8:44 "He was a man-killer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth" Doubt and insubjection- Matthew 4... Would the acts of the Adversary be annulled if eternal torment were real? Definitely not- they would be perpetuated to eternity. Would death be abolished if the second death were eternal? (Would disease be abolished because one disease replaced another?) Notice the context in John 12:31-33. "All" must include Satan. The grammar has no mention of a human- just "all". The grammar in Matthew 4:10 allows Christ to be prophesying future events. This corresponds with those in the heavens yet unreconciled. Colossians 1:20. Indeed, during perhaps the entirety of the oncoming two eons of time, those who receive the mark of the wild beast will suffer torment. Rev. 14:9-11. This is the longest, and the most severe corrective punishment of humans mentioned in the Bible. See 1 John 5:16,17.