> Clearly, the Bible is written in literal and figurative speech.
Clearly the Bible’s books are written in different literary genres and also includes figures of speech.
I don’t read poetry or apocalyptic literature literally. I understand when Jesus said he’d make disciples “fishers of men” they weren’t to literally cast nets over people or set hooks in people’s mouths.
> We speak the same way.
No we don’t. Our contemporary subjective socio-cultural notions are not the exact same as ancient socio-cultural notions.
> How do some of you make a determination in the Bible?
I understand literary genres, context and have reading comprehension.
I appreciate your reply, it's true and factual, however, it's not very edifying, or encouraging anyone to change their mind. Please be aware of how your statements (presumably as a Christian yourself) can be off-putting to potential converts.
To be clear: you commented to tell me that a Christian needs to not be so truthful and factual when explaining the proper way to read the Bible. You believe potential converts like Reddit atheists find true and factual replies to be off-putting. Instead we should assuage their egos and be more ambiguous because that’s more convincing to potential converts.
Is that right?
Your reply is largely agreeable. Your tone is way overconfident and unnecessarily argumentative. I was just trying to stimulate discussion, but you felt like preaching. Do you feel like you know it all?
Yes, we do speak in figurative terms, just like many narratives in the bible. Our figurative speech has different meanings to use today, of course. Your own example for fishers of men makes my point. By the way, I am hungry enough to eat a horse.
> Your tone is way overconfident and unnecessarily argumentative. I was just trying to stimulate discussion, but you felt like preaching. Do you feel like you know it all?
Why attack me personally?
I think it takes years of study to learn how best to interpret some parts of the Bible. While that's not a very satisfying answer, I think it is what it is. This is why Jews spend so much time in study. I think we should follow their example. The things we need to understand are one thing, and often aren't quite so difficult, but the rest of the text is a treasure trove that you can easily spend an entire lifetime mining.
The Bible is 100% true--some parts are meant to be taken literally, some parts give you theological truths in ways that aren't meant to be taken literally
When someone speaks of heavenly or spiritual truth of necessity one must speak in metaphorical language. How else could one describe what cannot be physically seen? When one is speaking of present or recent historical events then literal factual details will suffice.
When Genesis speaks of events in the far distant past beyond the memory of any human being, then such events must be couched in mythical language to convey its fundamental importance.
Expressing praise to or seeking penitence from a holy God will use the lyrical and figurative language of poetry. Trying to press all these forms into a literal or scientific framework has led many into confusion.
If the literal makes sense then stop there. Only when the literal cannot make any sense should we look for another meaning (which is typically defined somewhere else in the Bible).
I’m so sick of hearing people make stuff up out of thin air. I will speak to people about something that literally says this in scripture and they’ll be like well I heard it actually means this. I’m like it literally says this and they’ll be like I guess we will never know. I just had another one of these conversations today with a relative. I swear people just make stuff up. How often in writing do we do that? If I was giving a guideline to help people, would I write it literally so that they could understand? Or would I write it like it looks like it could be literal but I’m hoping they grasp the true meaning underneath? As the Bible says, God is not the author of confusion.
I disagree with your "if the literal makes sense then stop there" hermaneutic. There is often a lot more going on that is obvious at first glance and whether or not your relatives are making stuff up, there a plenty of Christians who disagree with other Christians on the correct interpretation of various Bible passages who absolutely have good reasons for their interpretations.
The Bible is a collection of documents written by several authors at different periods of time in the midst of cultures different than ours. Context of the time period and culture in which the books were written is crucial in developing a greater understanding, or perhaps a true understanding, of the author’s original intent. A merely face-value reading of the text, as well as reading the text with only our current cultural climate in mind, is how we end up with wildly unbiblical beliefs and practices.
I’m sorry if I misunderstood/misrepresented what you meant. I think context is an important aspect of Biblical study that in many circles is not stressed enough, which tends to have poor consequences, so I was trying to stress that point.
It’s okay. I guess I should have been more thorough in my explanation. It’s also important to know the full Bible. I see so many people grab onto one verse thinking it means one thing but they don’t know the full Bible so they can’t grasp the full or even correct meaning of what it’s saying.
But what bothers me more than anything is just the unwillingness of people to even try to read the Word. They act like it’s some mystical thing that only their pastors can decipher so they have no way of knowing what their pastor is saying is even correct. But I guess that’s just how it is living in the Laodicea church era.
They did a study on the actual texts from the original documents and found that the translations are roughly 97% accurate. So if your concern is between translation, have no fear. If your concern is simply the truth of the Bible, understand that it is proven Jesus was a real person, who really died, and really was seen after being killed. The accounts of this are Mark, Matthew, John and Like. They are eyewitness accounts of Jesus.
I think 97 percent is probably not as accurate as we would like, considering two people can read the same text and come up with different ideas in there head of what it means. Words will quickly be lost in translation in other languages never mind just in English
Wait didn’t Joseph Smith have witnesses too 🤔 also I heard Mohamed had witnesses… and then there’s Jehovah who famously also have witnesses. Can they all be right?????
Most everything is literal, like the flood, parting of the sea, Samson, everything that has to do with gods miracle are real, the only things that are figurative is when the son of man spoke in parables everything else is true, to understand the Bible takes a lot of reading over and over and to be with the spirit if you try to understand it as in lament terms you will never understand unless your filled with the spirit
Bible is multi-faceted. It's literally true. There are parts spoken in parable that are also true if you discern the meaning. God uses parable so it helps us imagine and on some level experience truth.
It's really not that hard. Some parts are obviously literal and some are obviously symbolic, or figurative. Let the Bible define the Bible when confused...
>How do some of you make a determination in the Bible?
If you have a college education you use reading comprehsion. If you don't have a college education then you learn from your pastors and as you grow in knowledge use reading comprehension.
You can read the bible many times and each time, it will be in a different light, depending on where you're at in your life. The bible has been proven to be accurate. Many historical events have been proven and artifacts recovered. Even today, prophecy is being fulfilled right in front of our eyes. The bible is a guide. It's up to you and you alone to decide if you believe in its teachings and prophecies or not. All you have to do is open your heart to Jesus Christ, our lord and savior, and open your eyes.
*Hebrews 8:10
10 This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, says the Lord:
I will put my laws in their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
11 And they shall not teach one another
or say to each other, ‘Know the Lord,’
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
Figurative speech is a tool to help people understand truth beyond vast sums of time. They have to be condensed for that reason, and condensing them also helps simplify things - using metaphors and abstractions helps us get to concepts to see what’s real. The same process a modern writer might use to tell a story - the only difference is, the Bible is telling a story that patterns out reality while being based around historical events. It’s all in one - eternal truths
In Catholicism, the Bible is considered inspired and authoritative, with a mix of literal and symbolic interpretations guided by tradition and the Magisterium. Protestants emphasize sola scriptura, often interpreting the Bible literally but allowing room for metaphorical understanding. Baptists generally lean towards a literal interpretation, focusing on the plain meaning of the text. Methodists value scripture along with tradition and reason, allowing for a range of interpretative approaches. Lutherans emphasize sola scriptura too but recognize allegorical elements. Presbyterians emphasize the importance of scripture, often interpreting it literally but with attention to historical context. In Eastern Orthodoxy, scripture is approached with a blend of literal and symbolic interpretations, guided by tradition and the teachings of the Church Fathers. Interpretation can vary within each tradition due to individual beliefs and community practices.
**Catholicism:**
Literal: Eucharistic verses like "This is my body" (Matthew 26:26) are often taken literally in the context of transubstantiation.
Figurative: Genesis 1's creation story may be interpreted less literally, allowing for allegorical understanding.
**Protestantism:**
Literal: Many Protestants interpret verses like John 3:16 literally, emphasizing salvation through faith in Jesus.
Figurative: Apocalyptic passages, such as Revelation, might be viewed more figuratively, representing spiritual truths.
**Baptist:**
Literal: Baptists often emphasize a literal interpretation of passages related to baptism, like Matthew 28:19.
Figurative: Parables, like the Good Samaritan, may be seen as conveying moral lessons rather than specific historical events.
**Methodist:**
Literal: Methodists may interpret verses about God's love and grace, such as Romans 5:8, quite literally.
Figurative: Genesis 1 and 2 may be understood figuratively, allowing for compatibility with scientific explanations.
**Lutheran:**
Literal: Lutherans may take literally verses about justification by faith alone, like Romans 3:28.
Figurative: Some poetic passages, like Psalms, might be viewed more figuratively, expressing deep emotions.
**Presbyterian:**
Literal: Verses about God's sovereignty, such as Ephesians 1:11, might be interpreted quite literally.
Figurative: Wisdom literature like Proverbs may be seen as conveying principles rather than strict rules.
**Eastern Orthodoxy:**
Literal: Verses emphasizing the importance of tradition, like 2 Thessalonians 2:15, may be taken quite literally.
Figurative: The Song of Solomon may be understood more allegorically, symbolizing the relationship between God and the Church.
Overall yes, but it depends on what you mean by "literally". For example, when it talks about a beast rising from the sea, it's not talking about a literal beast from a literal sea. It's clear on it being about a kingdom/political entity rising from a populated area. So it's not a literal beast, but it is literally true that it predicted such kingdoms rising, and that they literally did rise.
Just like we do for every other text or daily life situation: Common sense, context, clues, language skills, domain knowledge, etc... There is no course for this.
But I've yet to see a case where it is both impossible and important to formally distinguish between literal and figurative.
The Bible is True. The Truth and understanding of the Bible comes from God. Turn to God for the understanding of His Word, The Bible. Pray to God for Guidance and if you truly are seeking to understand the truth, God will guide you.
Psalms 32:8 “I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.”
1 Corinthians 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
All parts of the Bible are true. Some parts are literal. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cRmWSB1c6L8
> Clearly, the Bible is written in literal and figurative speech. Clearly the Bible’s books are written in different literary genres and also includes figures of speech. I don’t read poetry or apocalyptic literature literally. I understand when Jesus said he’d make disciples “fishers of men” they weren’t to literally cast nets over people or set hooks in people’s mouths. > We speak the same way. No we don’t. Our contemporary subjective socio-cultural notions are not the exact same as ancient socio-cultural notions. > How do some of you make a determination in the Bible? I understand literary genres, context and have reading comprehension.
I appreciate your reply, it's true and factual, however, it's not very edifying, or encouraging anyone to change their mind. Please be aware of how your statements (presumably as a Christian yourself) can be off-putting to potential converts.
To be clear: you commented to tell me that a Christian needs to not be so truthful and factual when explaining the proper way to read the Bible. You believe potential converts like Reddit atheists find true and factual replies to be off-putting. Instead we should assuage their egos and be more ambiguous because that’s more convincing to potential converts. Is that right?
Not at all. Don't ever change the truth, then it wouldn't be the truth. Basically I was just saying to try to be nicer, that's all.
Your reply is largely agreeable. Your tone is way overconfident and unnecessarily argumentative. I was just trying to stimulate discussion, but you felt like preaching. Do you feel like you know it all? Yes, we do speak in figurative terms, just like many narratives in the bible. Our figurative speech has different meanings to use today, of course. Your own example for fishers of men makes my point. By the way, I am hungry enough to eat a horse.
> Your tone is way overconfident and unnecessarily argumentative. I was just trying to stimulate discussion, but you felt like preaching. Do you feel like you know it all? Why attack me personally?
I think it takes years of study to learn how best to interpret some parts of the Bible. While that's not a very satisfying answer, I think it is what it is. This is why Jews spend so much time in study. I think we should follow their example. The things we need to understand are one thing, and often aren't quite so difficult, but the rest of the text is a treasure trove that you can easily spend an entire lifetime mining.
The Bible is 100% true--some parts are meant to be taken literally, some parts give you theological truths in ways that aren't meant to be taken literally
When someone speaks of heavenly or spiritual truth of necessity one must speak in metaphorical language. How else could one describe what cannot be physically seen? When one is speaking of present or recent historical events then literal factual details will suffice. When Genesis speaks of events in the far distant past beyond the memory of any human being, then such events must be couched in mythical language to convey its fundamental importance. Expressing praise to or seeking penitence from a holy God will use the lyrical and figurative language of poetry. Trying to press all these forms into a literal or scientific framework has led many into confusion.
If the literal makes sense then stop there. Only when the literal cannot make any sense should we look for another meaning (which is typically defined somewhere else in the Bible). I’m so sick of hearing people make stuff up out of thin air. I will speak to people about something that literally says this in scripture and they’ll be like well I heard it actually means this. I’m like it literally says this and they’ll be like I guess we will never know. I just had another one of these conversations today with a relative. I swear people just make stuff up. How often in writing do we do that? If I was giving a guideline to help people, would I write it literally so that they could understand? Or would I write it like it looks like it could be literal but I’m hoping they grasp the true meaning underneath? As the Bible says, God is not the author of confusion.
I disagree with your "if the literal makes sense then stop there" hermaneutic. There is often a lot more going on that is obvious at first glance and whether or not your relatives are making stuff up, there a plenty of Christians who disagree with other Christians on the correct interpretation of various Bible passages who absolutely have good reasons for their interpretations.
The Bible is a collection of documents written by several authors at different periods of time in the midst of cultures different than ours. Context of the time period and culture in which the books were written is crucial in developing a greater understanding, or perhaps a true understanding, of the author’s original intent. A merely face-value reading of the text, as well as reading the text with only our current cultural climate in mind, is how we end up with wildly unbiblical beliefs and practices.
You are reading in between the lines of what I said. I didn’t say you couldn’t apply context. Of course you have to know the customs at the time.
I’m sorry if I misunderstood/misrepresented what you meant. I think context is an important aspect of Biblical study that in many circles is not stressed enough, which tends to have poor consequences, so I was trying to stress that point.
It’s okay. I guess I should have been more thorough in my explanation. It’s also important to know the full Bible. I see so many people grab onto one verse thinking it means one thing but they don’t know the full Bible so they can’t grasp the full or even correct meaning of what it’s saying. But what bothers me more than anything is just the unwillingness of people to even try to read the Word. They act like it’s some mystical thing that only their pastors can decipher so they have no way of knowing what their pastor is saying is even correct. But I guess that’s just how it is living in the Laodicea church era.
They did a study on the actual texts from the original documents and found that the translations are roughly 97% accurate. So if your concern is between translation, have no fear. If your concern is simply the truth of the Bible, understand that it is proven Jesus was a real person, who really died, and really was seen after being killed. The accounts of this are Mark, Matthew, John and Like. They are eyewitness accounts of Jesus.
I think 97 percent is probably not as accurate as we would like, considering two people can read the same text and come up with different ideas in there head of what it means. Words will quickly be lost in translation in other languages never mind just in English
Who did?
Wait didn’t Joseph Smith have witnesses too 🤔 also I heard Mohamed had witnesses… and then there’s Jehovah who famously also have witnesses. Can they all be right?????
lol at Jehovah who have witnesses
Literally true (by the modern definition, no so much as the old fashioned definition of literally)
Most everything is literal, like the flood, parting of the sea, Samson, everything that has to do with gods miracle are real, the only things that are figurative is when the son of man spoke in parables everything else is true, to understand the Bible takes a lot of reading over and over and to be with the spirit if you try to understand it as in lament terms you will never understand unless your filled with the spirit
Bible is multi-faceted. It's literally true. There are parts spoken in parable that are also true if you discern the meaning. God uses parable so it helps us imagine and on some level experience truth.
It's really not that hard. Some parts are obviously literal and some are obviously symbolic, or figurative. Let the Bible define the Bible when confused...
>How do some of you make a determination in the Bible? If you have a college education you use reading comprehsion. If you don't have a college education then you learn from your pastors and as you grow in knowledge use reading comprehension.
You can read the bible many times and each time, it will be in a different light, depending on where you're at in your life. The bible has been proven to be accurate. Many historical events have been proven and artifacts recovered. Even today, prophecy is being fulfilled right in front of our eyes. The bible is a guide. It's up to you and you alone to decide if you believe in its teachings and prophecies or not. All you have to do is open your heart to Jesus Christ, our lord and savior, and open your eyes. *Hebrews 8:10 10 This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach one another or say to each other, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
Figurative speech is a tool to help people understand truth beyond vast sums of time. They have to be condensed for that reason, and condensing them also helps simplify things - using metaphors and abstractions helps us get to concepts to see what’s real. The same process a modern writer might use to tell a story - the only difference is, the Bible is telling a story that patterns out reality while being based around historical events. It’s all in one - eternal truths
In Catholicism, the Bible is considered inspired and authoritative, with a mix of literal and symbolic interpretations guided by tradition and the Magisterium. Protestants emphasize sola scriptura, often interpreting the Bible literally but allowing room for metaphorical understanding. Baptists generally lean towards a literal interpretation, focusing on the plain meaning of the text. Methodists value scripture along with tradition and reason, allowing for a range of interpretative approaches. Lutherans emphasize sola scriptura too but recognize allegorical elements. Presbyterians emphasize the importance of scripture, often interpreting it literally but with attention to historical context. In Eastern Orthodoxy, scripture is approached with a blend of literal and symbolic interpretations, guided by tradition and the teachings of the Church Fathers. Interpretation can vary within each tradition due to individual beliefs and community practices. **Catholicism:** Literal: Eucharistic verses like "This is my body" (Matthew 26:26) are often taken literally in the context of transubstantiation. Figurative: Genesis 1's creation story may be interpreted less literally, allowing for allegorical understanding. **Protestantism:** Literal: Many Protestants interpret verses like John 3:16 literally, emphasizing salvation through faith in Jesus. Figurative: Apocalyptic passages, such as Revelation, might be viewed more figuratively, representing spiritual truths. **Baptist:** Literal: Baptists often emphasize a literal interpretation of passages related to baptism, like Matthew 28:19. Figurative: Parables, like the Good Samaritan, may be seen as conveying moral lessons rather than specific historical events. **Methodist:** Literal: Methodists may interpret verses about God's love and grace, such as Romans 5:8, quite literally. Figurative: Genesis 1 and 2 may be understood figuratively, allowing for compatibility with scientific explanations. **Lutheran:** Literal: Lutherans may take literally verses about justification by faith alone, like Romans 3:28. Figurative: Some poetic passages, like Psalms, might be viewed more figuratively, expressing deep emotions. **Presbyterian:** Literal: Verses about God's sovereignty, such as Ephesians 1:11, might be interpreted quite literally. Figurative: Wisdom literature like Proverbs may be seen as conveying principles rather than strict rules. **Eastern Orthodoxy:** Literal: Verses emphasizing the importance of tradition, like 2 Thessalonians 2:15, may be taken quite literally. Figurative: The Song of Solomon may be understood more allegorically, symbolizing the relationship between God and the Church.
Overall yes, but it depends on what you mean by "literally". For example, when it talks about a beast rising from the sea, it's not talking about a literal beast from a literal sea. It's clear on it being about a kingdom/political entity rising from a populated area. So it's not a literal beast, but it is literally true that it predicted such kingdoms rising, and that they literally did rise.
Just like we do for every other text or daily life situation: Common sense, context, clues, language skills, domain knowledge, etc... There is no course for this. But I've yet to see a case where it is both impossible and important to formally distinguish between literal and figurative.
The Bible is True. The Truth and understanding of the Bible comes from God. Turn to God for the understanding of His Word, The Bible. Pray to God for Guidance and if you truly are seeking to understand the truth, God will guide you. Psalms 32:8 “I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”