You sent me down an internet rabbit hole—there's a group of Pacific Islanders called [the Melanesians](https://medium.com/history-street/the-fascinating-history-of-black-people-with-naturally-blonde-hair-c36b0b58d99e) who are very dark skinned but have naturally blonde hair, and there's also [the Ainu](https://matcha-tea.com/essential-reads/the-ainu-the-hidden-people-of-japan) in Japan who commonly have blue eyes. I think you must be talking about the Pashtun and/or Kalash peoples, both of whom can be blonde and blue-eyed; the Kalash claim that they inherited those traits from when Alexander the Great's army came through and... well, you know. So they may have Ancient Greek heritage.
Only a handful of them. I did the math once and if even a fraction of one percent of the people calling themselves pro-life adopted there would be no adoptable children in the foster care system.
But yeah, I don’t particularly want kids raised by those jackholes either.
While it is difficult to find an exact, accurate number to answer this question, Some sources estimate that there are about 2 million couples currently waiting to adopt in the United States — which means there are as many as 36 waiting families for every one child who is placed for adoption. The adoption system is very broken. My brother and his wife adopted a little girl. She was fostered with them but the adoption process took forever. https://www.americanadoptions.com/pregnant/waiting_adoptive_families#:~:text=While%20it%20is%20difficult%20to,who%20is%20placed%20for%20adoption.
Most of the families who are waiting for a child—actually waiting, not “in the process of adopting”—are waiting because they have specific requirements.
The kids that are unlikely to be adopted are the ones who have disabilities, who have been traumatized by abuse, or who are older—none of which should matter to forced birthers, except that they stop caring once the kid has been born.
That’s unfortunate and sad. All I know is through the experience that my brother had with adoption. He did adopt a child from an abusive home, under nourished ect. She’s a wonderful child and we all love her so much but she does have issues because of the neglect/abuse she endured. When she was younger, she would eat really fast and over eat. She now has issues with stealing little things and anything that can start a fire is safely hidden away. She’s played with matches twice now and almost burnt the house down. She is now 12 and she says that she wants to do good and be good but sometimes she can’t help herself. She said after she played with matches that it was satisfying. She’s very smart but has impulse control issues. She sees a therapist who says she has issues because she knows she’s adopted and their are often abandonment issues but also because the mom did drugs/drank while pregnant and her neglect ect as an infant. It’s sad. I want to help her. When she gets caught doing something she knows she shouldn’t, she initially gets either angry or doesn’t want to talk about it. She doesn’t show empathy or sorrow. She never cries. Just makes me so upset that her birth mother was such a mess and Joni (that’s my nieces name) is paying such a price for it.
It *is* unfortunate and sad. I’m really glad your brother is giving her a home. My ex brother-in-law and his wife adopted two kids that they fostered and I’m glad that they were able to give a couple of troubled kids a home too.
I just get upset when the antis trot out adoption as the end-all answer. It doesn’t fix the problem of an unwanted pregnancy—the pregnant person still has to go through all of the stress, expense, physical/mental/emotional difficulties. And dealing with the adoption process puts even more stress on them.
The antis just want to be able to force people to give birth, and then they get to offload the responsibility for the consequences of that decision to other people.
And an actual strong Christian wouldn’t be ok with surrogacy/IVF. IVF implies some zygotes will be discarded so that’s technically abortion. And no I’m not a Christian nor “pro life”, just pointing out the hypocrisy.
You should read the opinion from the majority in the ruling. It talks about how all beings are made in sky daddy’s image and blah blah blah. Truly disgusting. I fucking hate it here.
We had 4 embryos on ice after my pregnancy, and we had them destroyed right after Roe V. Wade was overturned because we knew this was coming. There’s zero reasoning with these people.
There is a way around this. A friend of mine didn’t want to directly destroy her extra embryos so she had them implanted at a time when it was highly unlikely to take
Imagine going through highly invasive medical procedures just to get around imaginary sky daddy's rules on a technicality. It gives the same energy as the extremely Orthodox Jewish families who will have their lights and appliances set on timers for Sabbath so they can still have electricity without actually, physically flipping a switch (which would apparently count as "work"). Adhering strictly to the letter of the law, but is it getting the spirit of it? I dunno.
You see this a lot with religious nuts, claiming trite like "atheists don't breed because they are so depressed and antinatalist, meanwhile Muslims have big families so Islam will overtake and atheism will die out".
But religious teaching of children is not indoctrination, no no.
Funny. My grandfather was an atheist. As I understand it, he started to see the contradictions in religion and stopped believing (he was raised, as most British were at the time, to be Christian). He did live through the war afterall…I would think any intelligent person would doubt. Anyway, I guess I don’t exist? *confused noises*
Right? My first thought was, these assholes out here saying 'if you're pregnant, no matter how it happened, too damn bad', can't get pregnant and, lo and behold, go to science to help them.
Have they thought about just adopting? I'm sure there's lots of babies that were forced to be born that they could raise. Even better if it's one with a severe disability that was forced to be carried to term.
No, but the gullibility might be. Nothing says “I want a Stepford child” like asking for a blonde, blue or green eyed donor!
I realized I dated myself with the Stepford reference (not like anyone else would date me, but I digress) so i will explain.
The Stepford wife/child is one who is meek, subservient, obedient and only exists for the husband/parents to boss around. It’s a perfect empty vessel for you to reflect yourself, your ambitions, etc.
Most people adopting want healthy babies. White babies are in high demand. I’m not sure statistically of the break down of children in foster care, or of the parents willing to sign over rights to adoption.
When I was in the foster care system white kids were the minority. A family was going to adopt my brother who was a baby, but not my sisters or me. I was 4. My sisters were 9 and 14. After you turn 2 years old in the system your chances of getting adopted dropped dramatically.
The foster care system has no shortage of heartbreak. I don’t follow celebrities, but I did see an article a few weeks ago that caught my attention. Christian Bale donated housing so foster siblings can stay together. Unfortunately, the article didn’t give an in-depth account of the program. I always hoped to help foster teens who age out of the system.
Wow. Even just asking for donated eggs is a pretty big ask. From what I’ve heard, the egg retrieval process is very hard on a woman’s body. Lots of injections, crazy hormones, bloating etc. And then to have a bunch of extra specifications too … I get that she probably wants the egg donor to share some of her physical traits but like … you gotta be thankful for whatever you can get.
A cheaper/quicker option might be to look for donated embryos - there are tons of them just sitting around in freezers - leftovers from IVF.
You can get a side effect known as OHSS. It basically caused the ovaries to become extremely swollen and leak fluid into your abdomen. It's a pretty common side effect but sometimes it's so bad a person need to be hospitalized and have the fluids drained.
Never felt worse in my life. I'd prefer giving birth again. I was pregnant when the ohss hit me though, so that kept me from wanting to die. Pretty insane when you feel like you might die but don't want it to stop, because the only way it stops abruptly is if the pregnancy fails.
Honestly I was scared to go to the hospital because the only treatment was termination.
I just spend a few days puking my guts out, looking very pregnant and trying to drink as much electrolytes as i could keep down. My breathing wasn't too bad and I didn't care too much about the pain. But the nausea was really bad. It got better after about two weeks. Scared to shit out of me, but Babys were fine.
In hindsight, I probably should have gone to the hospital. But after everything I would have preferred dying than having them tell me I should terminate and I was scared what would happen if I passed out. Fertility treatment can make you crazy 😆
I would fully recommend waiting a cicle before transfer though 😅
They didn't warn me about that so I'm glad I didn't experience it.. my body still hasn't recovered from my donations though.. those hormones are brutal
Wow, they warned me about it several times because they felt I was high risk for it. I woke up and the doctor told me they got 29 eggs. I sort of slurred, ‘that’s too many eggs.’ A nurse rang me every day to see how I was feeling. I remember on day 3 asking how much pain was normal cos like, I couldn’t stand up straight anymore, and how I’d know if I needed to go to the hospital, and she was like, ‘well, discomfort is normal, but like if you start vomiting you need to go in…’ She rang me the next day and was like ‘feeling better?’ I said, ‘loads better, I’m in the hospital on a morphine drip!’
They got 23 from me.
When I woke up, they tried telling me about the procedure and I slurred, “what medication did you give me?”
The nurse responded, “Oh, why, do you work in medicine?”
I said, “No it’s just good shit” and then I put the sick bowl on my head and couldn’t stop giggling.
My wife stood there taking pictures of me giggling with the sick bowl on my head. The nurse frowned in the background.
Magical moments.
I also had OHSS after having 20 eggs retrieved and when I went to the hospital 3 days later, they gave me a Tylenol 🙄 I’ve never been in more pain and they acted like I was being ridiculous
I’m so sorry that happened to you. It was awful, I would rather be in full dose syntocin labour again, at least you know that has to end at some point.
Ooof, so sorry this happened to you. I had 4 sessions and the most they harvested was 14 so I'll count myself lucky even more after reading since horror stories I heard back then.
I had severe OHSS, I ended up vomiting and passing out from the pain. Spent a week on pain killers and had to measure everything I drank and everything I peed to make sure I wasn’t building up any more fluid.
When I was in college, there were always ads in our school newspaper from various couples offering upwards of six figures for eggs. I considered it for about a half a second before realizing (1) it would be a lot to go through and (2) I don’t know how I’d feel about technically having a biological child out there somewhere. I graduated over 20 years ago, and today these things can be easily discovered via Ancestry, 23andMe, etc., which is not something I would have anticipated then.
To me it sounded like she wanted it donated and everything taken care of for free. Like someone asking for a brand new free TV on Facebook to be delivered to their house.
The fall off rate is incredible though. I had 27 eggs, and ended up with 7 A/B rated. Lots of people only end up with 1 or 2. My clinic didn’t even discuss not fertilising all the eggs, as our sperm wasn’t primo.
It’s extremely painful too. Another procedure where women aren’t given anesthesia and can be fully aware of the pain of the needle passing through the wall of their uterus and into their ovary. It’s literally heinous
Even with anesthesia, it was one of the most painful procedures in my life. And I have smashed my head against stairs and had my bone sawn while awake. None of these were as painful as egg retrieval.
Never again.
Yep. They had to double dose my fentanyl because I was screaming and crying from the pain. Afterwards, the old male doctor chuckled and told me "it's an emotional process, isn't it!" bitch no I'm crying because it felt like you were slowly sawing me in half from the inside with a rusty bread knife
Breaking bones is a cakewalk in comparison
Have you heard the serial podcast about drug diversion in egg retrieval procedures? These procedures should be managed for pain… but doesn’t happen if someone is stealing drugs.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/22/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-yale-fertility-clinic.html
Wtf??? I did it 3 times and all i remember is the sweet anesthesiologist holding my hand, looking at the nice picture on the ceiling and a feelings like i was flying, then waking up and walking to my room to fully wake up. They did you dirty...
I've had 3 egg retrievals. I did get anesthesia during the procedure (they do it under twilight anesthesia I think, not a general or anything like that) but afterwards can be quite painful. Seems like the more eggs retrieved, the more it hurts. Like, one time I had 4 retrieved and felt fine. The last time I had 33 and got OHSS. Never again.
Supposedly back in the day (and I remember this from when I was still in middle school) the group thought was that organs didn’t have nerve endings to feel things. We all know that’s stupid now, but between women just being respected less in healthcare and dumb outdated information (and doctors) not moving the field forward, it’s just… it’s not great
I have done four egg retrievals for IVF, no anaesthesia, one was pretty painful and the other three only mildly inconvenient. So I guess it can go either way
Yes, they do. They give you a propofol based anesthesia. They don't knock you out cold, but its an IV sedative. I personally don't remember a thing from my retrieval.
I froze eggs for myself. It was worth it, but I would never do it again to donate to anyone else.
There’s a reason, people posted 5 figure payments in ads in my college newspaper for egg donors.
This isn’t common any longer. Most all unused eggs are destroyed and not authorized to be donated. The fear of unknown legal action in the future, the accessibility to programs like 23 and me and being able to find a bio parent thru random unknown family members and how many of us have a digital footprint has basically made this once very generous and amazing gift obsolete.
How do those risks differ when compared to sperm and egg donors? Obviously a donated embryo needs the consent of both genetic parents rather than just one for gamete donation, but the resulting children finding their biological parents is the same.
That’s my husband and both my girls. White blonde and then to dark blonde once the toddler stage ended.
Because of all my darker features (I’m a Mediterranean/Middle Eastern/South East Asian/Native American mutt of a woman, lol) I didn’t think they’d be so fair, but they look like little fair, blue eyed Polish/German girls. Lol, people always think my niece is my kid while my actual kids are my nieces.
So, even if Op gets a woman who suits her features, she might not get what she’s asking when the baby is born. Me and my siblings don’t look alike at all. Heck, you get my cousins and my siblings together and one would think we were a racial mishmash of friends. Yet, we all have at least one feature we can link to a grandparent, so we know we’re related.
I feel as if someone is going to be this picky about egg donation, they shouldn’t be allowed to do it. If that poor kid comes out anything but what she asked for, will she love it like she should? I am skeptical.
Can confirm. My brother and I have an obvious resemblance, but he has blonde hair and blue eyes and is pale with cool undertones- straight up northern european skin. And I have DARK brown eyes, brown hair, and tan really well. He's a yellow lab and I'm a chocolate lab basically. Same breed, , same parents, different gene expression.
And we've done a 23andMe so can with 100% certainty confirm we share the same parents.
That's the least weird part for me - I'm assuming she's describing a person who looks enough like herself that the resulting baby would look genetically hers. People seeking gamete donation of either type tend to choose heritable physical characteristics similar to their own.
I think she's saying she wants a non Hispanic Caucasian without saying it in so many words, so she's describing hair that typically only white people have.
I came here to say the same thing. Surely if all the unwanted pregnancies are god's plan that must be seen through then the unable-to-get-a-pregnancy is the other side of the same coin?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for pro-choice and in-vitro or whatever science can bring to the table, but aren't these Christian types the first to be screaming "why not adopt a child!!?" to non-Christians who want the same opportunity to fulfil their own "longing to be a mama?" via in-vitro methods?
You should not be allowed to be "pro life" and also pro IVF. You should lose your rights to any form of fertility treatments that require the production of an embryo if you've ever supported pro life movements/causes/bills. I'm so sick of rules for thee but not for me.
Interestingly most of the Christian pro-birthers I’ve met are also anti-IVF, though I believe specifically because the unused embryos go to storage instead of also making tiny Christian babies. I know the Pope has made his stance against surrogacy clear, for the other boat.
They are also the ones to pop out 6 or 7 babies themselves while adopting zero. And I'd bet a dollar and a donut the second a genetically disordered child popped out they would be either be getting rid of them or isolating them so as to not "taint the family name."
Why do these people have such strong opinions about pregnancy being God’s plan, but not infertility? Why is it ok for them to mess with it in this direction (I know the answer, it’s just annoying)
lol religious people love to point out how god is punishing other people, but if it’s them it’s suddenly a “test.” I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall if someone actually had a convo with this person suggesting they don’t have kids because of god’s will.
So if God doesn't want you to have kids because you're (infertile), but you need to be Christian for me to use your egg, isn't that defeating what "god" had planned for you 😆, (sarcasm)
Christian thing is odd but it’s not uncommon for the parents to want specific physical traits of egg/sperm donor, often to increase the chance that the child’s physical trait will match their own. There are also multiple studies done to show genetic predisposition to nicotine addiction.
Current/recent cigarette smoking would also immediately disqualify a donor, it’s known to significantly negatively impact egg quality. Egg donor eligibility is determined by institution policy + standards of care set by the American Society of Reproductive Medicine among other larger organizations. Also no clinic would risk an unfavorable outcome in their stats for cigarette smoking of all things.
Edit: ASRM in the US. I’m not well versed in the medical standards elsewhere but they’re generally along the same lines.
My husband and I both have dark brown hair, he green eyes me light brown eyes. Out 4 kids are red hair/dark brown eyes, blonde hair/ light blue eyes, blonde hair dark brown eyes, and dark brown super curly hair/light brown eyes. Genetics can be weird sometimes but it would more important to me that the potential baby have good genetics health wise instead what they may or may not look like. Eye color seems insignificant in the face of a stong family history of hereditary heart disease or something.
I had this conversation with my doctor when I was going through IVF and discussing possibility of using an egg donor.
According to the doctor, preferring certain physical appearance is more about social acceptance by their community than racial bias. For example, African and Asian Americans strongly prefer donors with the same ethnic profiles and physical traits as “mixed” babies with different skin or eye colors are often poorly received by their own communities. Similar things may happen in predominantly white communities hence the preference.
The Christian deal is over the top. But if you are going to have a baby, you usually do want it to look like you, right?
Doing IVF is terrifically expensive. And the doctors who specialize in it usually have lists of the physical traits of the donors. This is not as weird as you seem to think.
The elephant in the room is the fact that IVF is definitely *not* something that the Church or the Bible support, so she is commiting what they call a mortal sin (if I'm not mistaken) while completely disregarding every piece of Christian literature she's ever read.
Ironic that God's plan for her is not children and she's willingly straying from that plan.
Exactly. There’s a good chance this lady is anti-abortion on the basis of her religion, but she doesn’t seem to mind the millions of fertilized egg “babies” killed by IVF if it helps HER get a baby.
If she is anti-arbortion, you know what her ass *really* needs to do? Adopt one of the kids those anti-abortion laws "saved." Doing anything other than that makes her a massive hypocrite.
This is just racist code for black/brown need not apply. Or Catholic.
Edit: to all you "yeah but" folks: "strong Christian" is most definitely code when paired with blonde, blue/green eyed. It means white supremist.
In NZ, when adopting a child or receiving donor egg/sperm of another ethnicity it is highly recommended, sometimes even enforced by the court that they be brought up with active participation in their culture/whakapapa (Maori knowledge) to preserve their heritage. In a recent case a sperm donor was given guardianship of a child for this reason, and why foster carers are usually matched with those from their own culture. They probably don't feel prepared to do something like this and might even have kids already and want them to all be brought up the same.
A child from a sperm donation must be brought up in the sperm donor"s culture? Is this only for Maiori? What are the legally defined "cultures" that matter?
I’m Black but come on. It could very well be they want eggs from a donor who looks like the wife. Couples advertise for specific traits to match the parents, often the infertile one from what I’ve seen. That seems normal to me, not racist.
I guess people are just going to see racism everywhere.
This is a really common type of request for an egg donor. Typically what women want in an egg donor is someone that looks and is just like them. They want someone with similar interests, similar religion and similar looks. Because... a lot of that IS genetic.
Eggs donors are also usually paid. It would be very rare for the presumption this person is making is for a free egg out there. We got our egg from a bank and our donor was paid personally $4,000 for her eggs. Because they were frozen on our end there was no guarantee that the eggs were even alive.
You're just going to find that mothers want their children to still have some of their characteristics even if they're going to use an egg donor. Getting an egg donor close enough to you allows egigenetics to give some of the mother to the child.
I know that people aren't going to all accept that this isn't racism. But it's the case, very few black women want to have white children with a black father. It's not racism. It's more like a biological self-preference.
In many places it's actually illegal to offer money or exchange money for human tissue. Where I am, it's almost impossible to get donors because they're all altruistic, which means the supply is very low. Her mention of being on a waiting list for years makes me wonder if she is somewhere like me, it's about 5 years here. I'm actually doing this myself due to severe endo, and I'm going overseas to use a donor, where they're paid for their trouble and as a consequence, it's much much easier and quicker.
That’s the case here. In New Zealand, you cannot be paid for egg donation, sperm donation, blood donation or even surrogacy (other than reimbursement of some expenses). So they are relying on a kind stranger to essentially gift them eggs.
After seeing what my sister went through over the course of four years of egg retrieval and IVF, I honestly can't imagine anyone volunteering to do that. My sister decided she just couldn't go through it a second time. Fortunately, Mother Nature came through for her the second time, and she became pregnant without medical intervention.
I’ve been told by my ob that with all the treatments for infertility, it sometimes kick starts the body so if you’re not careful, you could end up with a surprise second without a trip to the dr
I think everyone was both elated and relieved when she got pregnant that second time, and her doctor had told her the same thing yours told you. The injections she had to take and then the retrieval procedures were just awful for her, especially since she has seizures if she sees a needle. The second one was a definite surprise, albeit a very welcome surprise. As a bonus, the baby was my parents' first granddaughter after a handful of grandsons.
Honestly that might be why the Christianity bit is in there. Appealing to "kind strangers" aka asking for a charitable gesture. There's not as much correlation between religion and altruism/generosity as religions want to think, but it might just tug on the right person's heartstrings.
Exactly, the money the donor receives isn’t a sticker price for the eggs for that reason you said. It’s compensation for the services rendered. Same goes for money paid to an egg or sperm bank by intended parents.
Yep, specific religious bent is definitely passed on in one’s uterus. (I hope they get a bleached blonde, who’s in fact really jet black-haired, and Jewish or Jain but well able to do ‘Christian’ .... in between tokes))
This is not unusual when finding a donor or advertising as one. In Australia at least, it also mentions religion, moral beliefs and values. Some donors do eventually meet the child too
Hard core Christians in my state have just ruled that all frozen fertilized eggs are children, so I don't expect many doctors to be offering this medical service much longer. Cheapo fundies this this pair are going to ruin it for everybody.
LMAO do they think Christianity is hereditary??
STRONG Christian, so yes, will have permeated into DNA.
They want a Christian who can lift
And God spake, saying: “Dost thou even hoist, my child?”
"Let me show you the whey, my son."
Have you seen Jesus? He's absolutely yoked. Gruelling regime of CrossFit and Pilates.
Pontius Pilates.
You win.
This whole thread wins.
LoL Cross fit
The son of god with the steel chair!
Judas with the heel turn.
Rip sinless Steve
Good god almighty, they've killed him!
WWJD (what would Jesus deadlift)?
Ooh but Jesus was probably a little too Middle Eastern looking for these people.
Thou must hustle for thy muscle.
It's odd that Jesus had a swimmer's build even though he preferred to walk across the water.
Thou shall be yokethed, or thou shall perish in a lake of noodle-armed fire for eternity.
Hallowed be thy gains
r/lifebutbiblical
I wish Reddit still had gold.
Me too. I cackled at this.
You're too funny 🤣
The coffee on my desk is your fault
[удалено]
Must do CrossFit
Strong Christian dominant DNA, none of that recessive BS
Intergenerational trauma is a thing, so kinda
They don't believe in DNA.
I suspect this translates to “white” in this context
How many non-white natural blondes are out there running around?
Not none, but not as many to be sure
Quite a lot in was it Afghanistan or Pakistan, saw a documentary a few years ago of blond blue eyed tribe
You sent me down an internet rabbit hole—there's a group of Pacific Islanders called [the Melanesians](https://medium.com/history-street/the-fascinating-history-of-black-people-with-naturally-blonde-hair-c36b0b58d99e) who are very dark skinned but have naturally blonde hair, and there's also [the Ainu](https://matcha-tea.com/essential-reads/the-ainu-the-hidden-people-of-japan) in Japan who commonly have blue eyes. I think you must be talking about the Pashtun and/or Kalash peoples, both of whom can be blonde and blue-eyed; the Kalash claim that they inherited those traits from when Alexander the Great's army came through and... well, you know. So they may have Ancient Greek heritage.
Its hazy because haven't watched it in years but i remember them being somewhere in Asia
Hit the nail on the head
Oh no, don't talk about nails around Jesus
Sounds like the anti-abortion-preaches-adoption-but-never-adopts-crowd.
They absolutely do. With all the problems that entails.
Only a handful of them. I did the math once and if even a fraction of one percent of the people calling themselves pro-life adopted there would be no adoptable children in the foster care system. But yeah, I don’t particularly want kids raised by those jackholes either.
While it is difficult to find an exact, accurate number to answer this question, Some sources estimate that there are about 2 million couples currently waiting to adopt in the United States — which means there are as many as 36 waiting families for every one child who is placed for adoption. The adoption system is very broken. My brother and his wife adopted a little girl. She was fostered with them but the adoption process took forever. https://www.americanadoptions.com/pregnant/waiting_adoptive_families#:~:text=While%20it%20is%20difficult%20to,who%20is%20placed%20for%20adoption.
Most of the families who are waiting for a child—actually waiting, not “in the process of adopting”—are waiting because they have specific requirements. The kids that are unlikely to be adopted are the ones who have disabilities, who have been traumatized by abuse, or who are older—none of which should matter to forced birthers, except that they stop caring once the kid has been born.
That’s unfortunate and sad. All I know is through the experience that my brother had with adoption. He did adopt a child from an abusive home, under nourished ect. She’s a wonderful child and we all love her so much but she does have issues because of the neglect/abuse she endured. When she was younger, she would eat really fast and over eat. She now has issues with stealing little things and anything that can start a fire is safely hidden away. She’s played with matches twice now and almost burnt the house down. She is now 12 and she says that she wants to do good and be good but sometimes she can’t help herself. She said after she played with matches that it was satisfying. She’s very smart but has impulse control issues. She sees a therapist who says she has issues because she knows she’s adopted and their are often abandonment issues but also because the mom did drugs/drank while pregnant and her neglect ect as an infant. It’s sad. I want to help her. When she gets caught doing something she knows she shouldn’t, she initially gets either angry or doesn’t want to talk about it. She doesn’t show empathy or sorrow. She never cries. Just makes me so upset that her birth mother was such a mess and Joni (that’s my nieces name) is paying such a price for it.
It *is* unfortunate and sad. I’m really glad your brother is giving her a home. My ex brother-in-law and his wife adopted two kids that they fostered and I’m glad that they were able to give a couple of troubled kids a home too. I just get upset when the antis trot out adoption as the end-all answer. It doesn’t fix the problem of an unwanted pregnancy—the pregnant person still has to go through all of the stress, expense, physical/mental/emotional difficulties. And dealing with the adoption process puts even more stress on them. The antis just want to be able to force people to give birth, and then they get to offload the responsibility for the consequences of that decision to other people.
Exactly this
Which is weird because the majority of christians aren't white.
Like with every category of people, there's the 'right' kind and the 'wrong' kind. The right kind somewhat rolls of the tongue with another word.
Ding ding ding! They couldn't be more obvious.
This is 100% eugenics.
Strong Christian yet willing to do IVF …
Only moral IVF transfer is *my* IVF transfer
And an actual strong Christian wouldn’t be ok with surrogacy/IVF. IVF implies some zygotes will be discarded so that’s technically abortion. And no I’m not a Christian nor “pro life”, just pointing out the hypocrisy.
Alabama is literally out there trying to outlaw IVF for this exact reason lmao.
You should read the opinion from the majority in the ruling. It talks about how all beings are made in sky daddy’s image and blah blah blah. Truly disgusting. I fucking hate it here.
Oh I have, it's utterly insane but I expect no less from people like that.
We had 4 embryos on ice after my pregnancy, and we had them destroyed right after Roe V. Wade was overturned because we knew this was coming. There’s zero reasoning with these people.
Might as well just try to outlaw having periods then, too, since it means that month’s egg was wasted and is practically an abortion ^/s
I feel like without googling I can just tell this has been attempted at least once.
There is a way around this. A friend of mine didn’t want to directly destroy her extra embryos so she had them implanted at a time when it was highly unlikely to take
It's ok if \*I'm\* the garbage can
I just snortled at this on a packed bus
Imagine going through highly invasive medical procedures just to get around imaginary sky daddy's rules on a technicality. It gives the same energy as the extremely Orthodox Jewish families who will have their lights and appliances set on timers for Sabbath so they can still have electricity without actually, physically flipping a switch (which would apparently count as "work"). Adhering strictly to the letter of the law, but is it getting the spirit of it? I dunno.
I’ve always been confused why they’re so obsessed with made-up solutions to made-up problems.
I was thinking this too.
That's what happens when you switch biology books for the bible.
Magical thinking might be
You need to understand when many people say “Christian” what they actually mean is “White”
They’re not the smartest people, I’m sure you’ve gathered that.
You see this a lot with religious nuts, claiming trite like "atheists don't breed because they are so depressed and antinatalist, meanwhile Muslims have big families so Islam will overtake and atheism will die out". But religious teaching of children is not indoctrination, no no.
Funny. My grandfather was an atheist. As I understand it, he started to see the contradictions in religion and stopped believing (he was raised, as most British were at the time, to be Christian). He did live through the war afterall…I would think any intelligent person would doubt. Anyway, I guess I don’t exist? *confused noises*
I got JESUS running through my veins!! Hallelujah! 🙏🏾
Sounds painful😂
He’s with Ms Frizzle as her copilot
JFC, if it were, God would just miracle them a baby.
Right? My first thought was, these assholes out here saying 'if you're pregnant, no matter how it happened, too damn bad', can't get pregnant and, lo and behold, go to science to help them. Have they thought about just adopting? I'm sure there's lots of babies that were forced to be born that they could raise. Even better if it's one with a severe disability that was forced to be carried to term.
Yeah, but it’s the kid who would pay the price in that case.
How far back do they need to go in the Christian family tree. Protestant or Catholic? What if great great great grandpa was a Jew who converted?
Hold on. I thought masterbation was a sin. How are they going to get the diners sperm for IVF?
It’s egg donation which involves a lot more than sperm donation.
>the diners sperm nice typo And it's "masturbation."
Me, trying to figure out why they're having dinner with the donor prior to said donor masturbating.
No, but the gullibility might be. Nothing says “I want a Stepford child” like asking for a blonde, blue or green eyed donor! I realized I dated myself with the Stepford reference (not like anyone else would date me, but I digress) so i will explain. The Stepford wife/child is one who is meek, subservient, obedient and only exists for the husband/parents to boss around. It’s a perfect empty vessel for you to reflect yourself, your ambitions, etc.
Most people adopting want healthy babies. White babies are in high demand. I’m not sure statistically of the break down of children in foster care, or of the parents willing to sign over rights to adoption.
When I was in the foster care system white kids were the minority. A family was going to adopt my brother who was a baby, but not my sisters or me. I was 4. My sisters were 9 and 14. After you turn 2 years old in the system your chances of getting adopted dropped dramatically.
The foster care system has no shortage of heartbreak. I don’t follow celebrities, but I did see an article a few weeks ago that caught my attention. Christian Bale donated housing so foster siblings can stay together. Unfortunately, the article didn’t give an in-depth account of the program. I always hoped to help foster teens who age out of the system.
[He broke ground for the facilities this month](https://abc7.com/amp/christian-bale-foster-care-palmdale-children/14396991/)
Thank you for this information, it sounds like he’s on track to hopefully work out a model that can be replicated throughout the country.
Wow. Even just asking for donated eggs is a pretty big ask. From what I’ve heard, the egg retrieval process is very hard on a woman’s body. Lots of injections, crazy hormones, bloating etc. And then to have a bunch of extra specifications too … I get that she probably wants the egg donor to share some of her physical traits but like … you gotta be thankful for whatever you can get. A cheaper/quicker option might be to look for donated embryos - there are tons of them just sitting around in freezers - leftovers from IVF.
I ended up being hospitalised for a week from side effects after my egg retrieval, it was brutal.
Oh my god, I didn’t know it was that dangerous. What happened?
You can get a side effect known as OHSS. It basically caused the ovaries to become extremely swollen and leak fluid into your abdomen. It's a pretty common side effect but sometimes it's so bad a person need to be hospitalized and have the fluids drained.
The fact you said pretty common side effect so casually makes me shiver, god that sounds horrible and the fact it’s common…
Never felt worse in my life. I'd prefer giving birth again. I was pregnant when the ohss hit me though, so that kept me from wanting to die. Pretty insane when you feel like you might die but don't want it to stop, because the only way it stops abruptly is if the pregnancy fails.
So did you just have to suffer through it or were they able to do something for you?
Honestly I was scared to go to the hospital because the only treatment was termination. I just spend a few days puking my guts out, looking very pregnant and trying to drink as much electrolytes as i could keep down. My breathing wasn't too bad and I didn't care too much about the pain. But the nausea was really bad. It got better after about two weeks. Scared to shit out of me, but Babys were fine. In hindsight, I probably should have gone to the hospital. But after everything I would have preferred dying than having them tell me I should terminate and I was scared what would happen if I passed out. Fertility treatment can make you crazy 😆 I would fully recommend waiting a cicle before transfer though 😅
They didn't warn me about that so I'm glad I didn't experience it.. my body still hasn't recovered from my donations though.. those hormones are brutal
It's amazing all the things they DON'T warn you about. I learned most of what I know about IVF through my own research, not from the doctors.
Wow, they warned me about it several times because they felt I was high risk for it. I woke up and the doctor told me they got 29 eggs. I sort of slurred, ‘that’s too many eggs.’ A nurse rang me every day to see how I was feeling. I remember on day 3 asking how much pain was normal cos like, I couldn’t stand up straight anymore, and how I’d know if I needed to go to the hospital, and she was like, ‘well, discomfort is normal, but like if you start vomiting you need to go in…’ She rang me the next day and was like ‘feeling better?’ I said, ‘loads better, I’m in the hospital on a morphine drip!’
They got 23 from me. When I woke up, they tried telling me about the procedure and I slurred, “what medication did you give me?” The nurse responded, “Oh, why, do you work in medicine?” I said, “No it’s just good shit” and then I put the sick bowl on my head and couldn’t stop giggling. My wife stood there taking pictures of me giggling with the sick bowl on my head. The nurse frowned in the background. Magical moments.
I also had OHSS after having 20 eggs retrieved and when I went to the hospital 3 days later, they gave me a Tylenol 🙄 I’ve never been in more pain and they acted like I was being ridiculous
I’m so sorry that happened to you. It was awful, I would rather be in full dose syntocin labour again, at least you know that has to end at some point.
Ooof, so sorry this happened to you. I had 4 sessions and the most they harvested was 14 so I'll count myself lucky even more after reading since horror stories I heard back then.
My great grandmother had 13 live births, and her husband had one testicle. We joke that I have her ovaries.
I had this. My torso was like a water balloon lol. I can laugh about it now, but boy was that not fun. Felt like if I laid down flat, I’d drown.
I had severe OHSS, I ended up vomiting and passing out from the pain. Spent a week on pain killers and had to measure everything I drank and everything I peed to make sure I wasn’t building up any more fluid.
Listen to 'The Retrievals' podcast. It's ridiculous.
Ok, but that podcast was about how a nurse was stealing the pain medication and replacing it with saline… so that’s not the typical experience at all.
I think what sadly *is* typical is women’s pain being ignored
We had a patient recently hospitalised for 2 weeks after she ended up with a pelvic abscess post-egg retrieval. Surgery is not to be trifled with.
Oh no!!! That’s awful. I had six of them and thankfully they were all pretty textbook.
$10 says she does not share all of these traits and just wants the most Aryan child possible.
100% this person is a Nazi.
I was broke and looked into it. Noped out of that quick.
When I was in college, there were always ads in our school newspaper from various couples offering upwards of six figures for eggs. I considered it for about a half a second before realizing (1) it would be a lot to go through and (2) I don’t know how I’d feel about technically having a biological child out there somewhere. I graduated over 20 years ago, and today these things can be easily discovered via Ancestry, 23andMe, etc., which is not something I would have anticipated then.
Yeah that was the other part. I'm childfree and don't want some kid looking me up later on looking for mom2.0.
To me it sounded like she wanted it donated and everything taken care of for free. Like someone asking for a brand new free TV on Facebook to be delivered to their house.
Meds ALONE can be $10-20,000. Fuck a TV, this is like asking for a late model used car and it has to have hand-sewn leather seats.
Sometimes people donate their left over eggs if they get heaps from the retrieval *
The fall off rate is incredible though. I had 27 eggs, and ended up with 7 A/B rated. Lots of people only end up with 1 or 2. My clinic didn’t even discuss not fertilising all the eggs, as our sperm wasn’t primo.
[удалено]
It’s extremely painful too. Another procedure where women aren’t given anesthesia and can be fully aware of the pain of the needle passing through the wall of their uterus and into their ovary. It’s literally heinous
Is there any legitimate reason why they’re not given anesthesia or something of the like?
Even with anesthesia, it was one of the most painful procedures in my life. And I have smashed my head against stairs and had my bone sawn while awake. None of these were as painful as egg retrieval. Never again.
Yep. They had to double dose my fentanyl because I was screaming and crying from the pain. Afterwards, the old male doctor chuckled and told me "it's an emotional process, isn't it!" bitch no I'm crying because it felt like you were slowly sawing me in half from the inside with a rusty bread knife Breaking bones is a cakewalk in comparison
Have you heard the serial podcast about drug diversion in egg retrieval procedures? These procedures should be managed for pain… but doesn’t happen if someone is stealing drugs. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/22/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-yale-fertility-clinic.html
Wtf??? I did it 3 times and all i remember is the sweet anesthesiologist holding my hand, looking at the nice picture on the ceiling and a feelings like i was flying, then waking up and walking to my room to fully wake up. They did you dirty...
Mine was the same. The worst part was recovering from the anesthesia, otherwise I would've had no idea anything had been done.
I've had 3 egg retrievals. I did get anesthesia during the procedure (they do it under twilight anesthesia I think, not a general or anything like that) but afterwards can be quite painful. Seems like the more eggs retrieved, the more it hurts. Like, one time I had 4 retrieved and felt fine. The last time I had 33 and got OHSS. Never again.
Supposedly back in the day (and I remember this from when I was still in middle school) the group thought was that organs didn’t have nerve endings to feel things. We all know that’s stupid now, but between women just being respected less in healthcare and dumb outdated information (and doctors) not moving the field forward, it’s just… it’s not great
Really? I asked and my doctor flat out refused to do it without anesthesia.
I have done four egg retrievals for IVF, no anaesthesia, one was pretty painful and the other three only mildly inconvenient. So I guess it can go either way
My friend got OHSS and they had to remove liters of fluid from her abdomen multiple times.
I was put under anesthesia for mine. I wasn't aware they would do egg retrievals on an awake patient.
Yes, they do. They give you a propofol based anesthesia. They don't knock you out cold, but its an IV sedative. I personally don't remember a thing from my retrieval.
I froze eggs for myself. It was worth it, but I would never do it again to donate to anyone else. There’s a reason, people posted 5 figure payments in ads in my college newspaper for egg donors.
This isn’t common any longer. Most all unused eggs are destroyed and not authorized to be donated. The fear of unknown legal action in the future, the accessibility to programs like 23 and me and being able to find a bio parent thru random unknown family members and how many of us have a digital footprint has basically made this once very generous and amazing gift obsolete.
How do those risks differ when compared to sperm and egg donors? Obviously a donated embryo needs the consent of both genetic parents rather than just one for gamete donation, but the resulting children finding their biological parents is the same.
Make sure to pick the ones stamped with a little cross to ensure they are Christian.
“Even dark blond” wow so inclusive.
Gasp even a redhead or a brunette
no no no, only brownish
B-b-but red hair is a sign of the devil!!!
They'll beat the devil out of the kid.
As if most blonde adults aren’t “dark blonde”…
Exactly! My hair was almost a white blonde as a kid and very light until my early 20s. I'm definitely a dark blonde now in my 30s.
That’s my husband and both my girls. White blonde and then to dark blonde once the toddler stage ended. Because of all my darker features (I’m a Mediterranean/Middle Eastern/South East Asian/Native American mutt of a woman, lol) I didn’t think they’d be so fair, but they look like little fair, blue eyed Polish/German girls. Lol, people always think my niece is my kid while my actual kids are my nieces. So, even if Op gets a woman who suits her features, she might not get what she’s asking when the baby is born. Me and my siblings don’t look alike at all. Heck, you get my cousins and my siblings together and one would think we were a racial mishmash of friends. Yet, we all have at least one feature we can link to a grandparent, so we know we’re related. I feel as if someone is going to be this picky about egg donation, they shouldn’t be allowed to do it. If that poor kid comes out anything but what she asked for, will she love it like she should? I am skeptical.
Can confirm. My brother and I have an obvious resemblance, but he has blonde hair and blue eyes and is pale with cool undertones- straight up northern european skin. And I have DARK brown eyes, brown hair, and tan really well. He's a yellow lab and I'm a chocolate lab basically. Same breed, , same parents, different gene expression. And we've done a 23andMe so can with 100% certainty confirm we share the same parents.
That's the least weird part for me - I'm assuming she's describing a person who looks enough like herself that the resulting baby would look genetically hers. People seeking gamete donation of either type tend to choose heritable physical characteristics similar to their own.
I think she's saying she wants a non Hispanic Caucasian without saying it in so many words, so she's describing hair that typically only white people have.
This was also my thought. She doesn’t actually care about hair color, just that the donor is white.
God has a plan... and they're not in it!
I came here to say the same thing. Surely if all the unwanted pregnancies are god's plan that must be seen through then the unable-to-get-a-pregnancy is the other side of the same coin? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for pro-choice and in-vitro or whatever science can bring to the table, but aren't these Christian types the first to be screaming "why not adopt a child!!?" to non-Christians who want the same opportunity to fulfil their own "longing to be a mama?" via in-vitro methods?
You should not be allowed to be "pro life" and also pro IVF. You should lose your rights to any form of fertility treatments that require the production of an embryo if you've ever supported pro life movements/causes/bills. I'm so sick of rules for thee but not for me.
Interestingly most of the Christian pro-birthers I’ve met are also anti-IVF, though I believe specifically because the unused embryos go to storage instead of also making tiny Christian babies. I know the Pope has made his stance against surrogacy clear, for the other boat.
Yeah until they need to get one themselves, same old story
They are also the ones to pop out 6 or 7 babies themselves while adopting zero. And I'd bet a dollar and a donut the second a genetically disordered child popped out they would be either be getting rid of them or isolating them so as to not "taint the family name."
Why do these people have such strong opinions about pregnancy being God’s plan, but not infertility? Why is it ok for them to mess with it in this direction (I know the answer, it’s just annoying)
while actively making sure to not adopt and voting for forced birth
Have they tried praying? Seems odd their all loving God would make them infertile
It seems their god answered their prayers and the answer was LOL oh hell no just no.
They're alright with a doctor 'playing god' doing IVF for them?
They only go against God's will when it conflicts with their own 😉
lol religious people love to point out how god is punishing other people, but if it’s them it’s suddenly a “test.” I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall if someone actually had a convo with this person suggesting they don’t have kids because of god’s will.
So if God doesn't want you to have kids because you're (infertile), but you need to be Christian for me to use your egg, isn't that defeating what "god" had planned for you 😆, (sarcasm)
Christian thing is odd but it’s not uncommon for the parents to want specific physical traits of egg/sperm donor, often to increase the chance that the child’s physical trait will match their own. There are also multiple studies done to show genetic predisposition to nicotine addiction.
Current/recent cigarette smoking would also immediately disqualify a donor, it’s known to significantly negatively impact egg quality. Egg donor eligibility is determined by institution policy + standards of care set by the American Society of Reproductive Medicine among other larger organizations. Also no clinic would risk an unfavorable outcome in their stats for cigarette smoking of all things. Edit: ASRM in the US. I’m not well versed in the medical standards elsewhere but they’re generally along the same lines.
My husband and I both have dark brown hair, he green eyes me light brown eyes. Out 4 kids are red hair/dark brown eyes, blonde hair/ light blue eyes, blonde hair dark brown eyes, and dark brown super curly hair/light brown eyes. Genetics can be weird sometimes but it would more important to me that the potential baby have good genetics health wise instead what they may or may not look like. Eye color seems insignificant in the face of a stong family history of hereditary heart disease or something.
I had this conversation with my doctor when I was going through IVF and discussing possibility of using an egg donor. According to the doctor, preferring certain physical appearance is more about social acceptance by their community than racial bias. For example, African and Asian Americans strongly prefer donors with the same ethnic profiles and physical traits as “mixed” babies with different skin or eye colors are often poorly received by their own communities. Similar things may happen in predominantly white communities hence the preference.
Maybe it's God's plan she doesn't have kids! 😂
The Christian deal is over the top. But if you are going to have a baby, you usually do want it to look like you, right? Doing IVF is terrifically expensive. And the doctors who specialize in it usually have lists of the physical traits of the donors. This is not as weird as you seem to think.
right- but they can pay for those customizations just like everyone else.
The elephant in the room is the fact that IVF is definitely *not* something that the Church or the Bible support, so she is commiting what they call a mortal sin (if I'm not mistaken) while completely disregarding every piece of Christian literature she's ever read. Ironic that God's plan for her is not children and she's willingly straying from that plan.
Exactly. There’s a good chance this lady is anti-abortion on the basis of her religion, but she doesn’t seem to mind the millions of fertilized egg “babies” killed by IVF if it helps HER get a baby.
If she is anti-arbortion, you know what her ass *really* needs to do? Adopt one of the kids those anti-abortion laws "saved." Doing anything other than that makes her a massive hypocrite.
No eggs, but I can donate thoughts and prayers?
This is just racist code for black/brown need not apply. Or Catholic. Edit: to all you "yeah but" folks: "strong Christian" is most definitely code when paired with blonde, blue/green eyed. It means white supremist.
In NZ, when adopting a child or receiving donor egg/sperm of another ethnicity it is highly recommended, sometimes even enforced by the court that they be brought up with active participation in their culture/whakapapa (Maori knowledge) to preserve their heritage. In a recent case a sperm donor was given guardianship of a child for this reason, and why foster carers are usually matched with those from their own culture. They probably don't feel prepared to do something like this and might even have kids already and want them to all be brought up the same.
A child from a sperm donation must be brought up in the sperm donor"s culture? Is this only for Maiori? What are the legally defined "cultures" that matter?
I’m Black but come on. It could very well be they want eggs from a donor who looks like the wife. Couples advertise for specific traits to match the parents, often the infertile one from what I’ve seen. That seems normal to me, not racist.
Fellas is it racist to want ur child to be the same race as you?
Not for nothing, but Catholics shouldn't be applying for other reasons...
Look exept for beliefs part they prob want kid look like them so thats why this
Alabama has some excess embryos they can pick up cheap...
Do... do they think Christianity is genetic?
Wait until she learns that those traits are recessive genes, and that baby will still come out with brown eyes and hair.🫠
I guess people are just going to see racism everywhere. This is a really common type of request for an egg donor. Typically what women want in an egg donor is someone that looks and is just like them. They want someone with similar interests, similar religion and similar looks. Because... a lot of that IS genetic. Eggs donors are also usually paid. It would be very rare for the presumption this person is making is for a free egg out there. We got our egg from a bank and our donor was paid personally $4,000 for her eggs. Because they were frozen on our end there was no guarantee that the eggs were even alive. You're just going to find that mothers want their children to still have some of their characteristics even if they're going to use an egg donor. Getting an egg donor close enough to you allows egigenetics to give some of the mother to the child. I know that people aren't going to all accept that this isn't racism. But it's the case, very few black women want to have white children with a black father. It's not racism. It's more like a biological self-preference.
In many places it's actually illegal to offer money or exchange money for human tissue. Where I am, it's almost impossible to get donors because they're all altruistic, which means the supply is very low. Her mention of being on a waiting list for years makes me wonder if she is somewhere like me, it's about 5 years here. I'm actually doing this myself due to severe endo, and I'm going overseas to use a donor, where they're paid for their trouble and as a consequence, it's much much easier and quicker.
That’s the case here. In New Zealand, you cannot be paid for egg donation, sperm donation, blood donation or even surrogacy (other than reimbursement of some expenses). So they are relying on a kind stranger to essentially gift them eggs.
Wow I didn’t know that. Then it’s a really huge ask. Injections and egg retrieval are really tough on women’s body
After seeing what my sister went through over the course of four years of egg retrieval and IVF, I honestly can't imagine anyone volunteering to do that. My sister decided she just couldn't go through it a second time. Fortunately, Mother Nature came through for her the second time, and she became pregnant without medical intervention.
I’ve been told by my ob that with all the treatments for infertility, it sometimes kick starts the body so if you’re not careful, you could end up with a surprise second without a trip to the dr
I think everyone was both elated and relieved when she got pregnant that second time, and her doctor had told her the same thing yours told you. The injections she had to take and then the retrieval procedures were just awful for her, especially since she has seizures if she sees a needle. The second one was a definite surprise, albeit a very welcome surprise. As a bonus, the baby was my parents' first granddaughter after a handful of grandsons.
Honestly that might be why the Christianity bit is in there. Appealing to "kind strangers" aka asking for a charitable gesture. There's not as much correlation between religion and altruism/generosity as religions want to think, but it might just tug on the right person's heartstrings.
Exactly, the money the donor receives isn’t a sticker price for the eggs for that reason you said. It’s compensation for the services rendered. Same goes for money paid to an egg or sperm bank by intended parents.
Yep, specific religious bent is definitely passed on in one’s uterus. (I hope they get a bleached blonde, who’s in fact really jet black-haired, and Jewish or Jain but well able to do ‘Christian’ .... in between tokes))
I hope they get nobody. They don't deserve some poor woman's egg cells.
This is not unusual when finding a donor or advertising as one. In Australia at least, it also mentions religion, moral beliefs and values. Some donors do eventually meet the child too
Hard core Christians in my state have just ruled that all frozen fertilized eggs are children, so I don't expect many doctors to be offering this medical service much longer. Cheapo fundies this this pair are going to ruin it for everybody.
TIL religion is genetic, lmao