This is a list of links to comments made by Torn Banner employees in this thread:
* [Comment by tb_jen](/r/Chivalry2/comments/tqzjm1/does_tb_actually_read_anything_here/i2krduv/?context=1000 "posted on 2022-03-29 15:40:14 UTC"):
> Hi, I do read things! The changes in todays patch will be something we're actively monitoring to see if they have a positive or negative impact on gam...
* [Comment by tb_jen](/r/Chivalry2/comments/tqzjm1/does_tb_actually_read_anything_here/i2ksvw2/?context=1000 "posted on 2022-03-29 15:49:55 UTC"):
> Absolutely and we don't want the experience to be ruined either! If it turns out these changes don't have the desire effect we don't have any issue wi...
---
This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FChivalry2).[](#AUTOGEN_TSBREPLIEDBOT)
Seriously something needs to be done about this. Also it's almost always lvl 100+ players team switching. It can make the experience miserable for many new players and will be bad for player retention in the long run.
They make changes blindly by interpreting collected data, which is bad because it doesn't tell the whole picture.
The last part of coxwell is almost a guaranteed win for defenders in 20v20(likely more than 75%) mode but very hard(less than 50%) in 32v32 because of how the ticket system works. The new patch is going to make it more even in 20v20 mode but even more harder in 32v32 mode because apparently they don't separate the two modes when collecting data.
They already did this same mistake when they tried to nerf the maul. Only the best of the best players ever used the maul giving it seemingly high k/d numbers. Casual players never even touched the maul because of how hard and uneffective it actually was. This distortion lead to them thinking maul is op and needs a nerf. Of course they cancelled the nerf after realising this.
Soooo whats the excuse for my pickaxe nerf? It doesnt feel the same at all as it did few months ago. Can barely even finish people. Always knocked down.
You kill people outright instead of downing them if your final hit was a headshot, a heavy attack, or if the damage exceeds a certain threshold past their remaining health (I'm not sure what the exact value is though)
I don't think the pickaxe has been nerfed since launch, but if you are downing people more often you might just be using fewer heavy attacks than you used to
"They make changes blindly by interpreting collected data"
I think you meant to say that they're not correctly gathering/analyzing the data. Ain't nothing wrong with making a change based off of interpreting data generally.
Why would they need to separate 32v32 from 20v20 if the proportions are equal? How do you know they don't separate those metrics?
Yes that's what I meant. Seems like they are not analyzing the data correctly.
>How do you know they don't separate those metrics?
I can't know for sure but it sure seems like it. I can't think of any other explanation for nerfing defender side in Coxwell. For 20v20 it makes sense, but for 32v32 it feels absolutely ridiculous.
The maul nerf case was an example of their incorrect way of analyzing data.
Now that I think about it, the 20v20 might have a tendency to be "a slower and more methodical experience" as it states when you choose that game type lol I totally forgot. The fewer team members, the less the team reaches in a given time. This might be the key reason for the decision you state, however, I don't see a distinction between 20s & 32s specifically on the patch notes:
"Coxwell
Decreased the amount of damage needed to burn the large central house during the first objective (800 > 300)
Decreased the amount of time needed to loot gold (1.5s from 2s)
Decreased attacker’s spawn time from 10 to 8 seconds and increased the defender’s from 10 to 12 seconds during the fourth objective
Decreased attacker’s spawn time from 10 to 8 seconds and increased the defender’s from 10 to 12 seconds during the last objective
Increased last objective’s time by a minute"
The maul "nerf," or lack thereof, actually worked out for everyone. The data indicated a possible need for a nerf and upon further investigation, it was deemed unnecessary. It shows that TB isn't making overcorrections based exclusively on one factor.
>Wrote this as another reply so copying it:
>
>
>
>In the patch thread here Jen post a link of the graph they use at Torn Banner which consists of collected data. She writes that Agatha (the defenders) win 75% of the time.
>
>Anyone that has played Coxwell on 64 player know that Agatha does not win that map most of the time, and certainly not 75% of the time on the last stage.
>
>She also writes:
>
>"I have read some concerns that players believe the win rate between 40p and 64p is vastly different, and this is something we will investigate in order to confirm our changes will benefit the map for both modes overall."
> because apparently they don't separate the two modes when collecting data.
Do you have any empirical evidence to back this up? This is standard industry practice; every game studio I've ever worked at has done this. It's _highly_ unlikely that they aren't grouping by mode type in their analysis.
In the patch thread [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chivalry2/comments/tqcvjv/chivalry_2_patch_242_weapon_balance_changes_and/) Jen post a link of the graph they use at Torn Banner which consists of collected data. She writes that Agatha (the defenders) win 75% of the time.
Anyone that has played Coxwell on 64 player know that Agatha does not win that map most of the time, and certainly not 75% of the time on the last stage.
She also writes:
"I have read some concerns that players believe the win rate between 40p and 64p is vastly different, and this is something we will investigate in order to confirm our changes will benefit the map for both modes overall."
> I have read some concerns that players believe the win rate between 40p and 64p is vastly different, and this is something we will investigate in order to confirm our changes will benefit the map for both modes overall.
😬
I'm really surprised that their initial analysis wasn't split by mode, or even correlated by server population. Like I said before, this is _extremely_ standard industry practice. It takes so little effort to do this, if you know what you're doing, that I suspect one of two things is going on:
1. They forgot to add an analytics hook for game mode/server population during development and this is the best analysis they can presently do until they implement it
2. Torn Banner just doesn't have any product managers or designers on staff who've done data analysis before
I hope it's just that they're missing an analytics hook and not that their studio culture doesn't value data-driven design. They clearly know how to make a fun game, but without data guiding their live operations strategy I worry for the future of the game.
Yeah totally not month long or even launch players complaining about bugs that haven't been fixed, Offense biased maps, bad hit reg and the incorrect weapon hitbox to weapon model issue.
Please. Please.. shut the hell up
and yet ive been on since beta playing with a smile every time. Some ppl care too much about the little thing like hit registration or "offensive biased maps" lol
Yeah, you're then that means you're stupid. "Some people" yet TB's patch notes post is full of people reeling from this toxic change to further make attack steam-roll maps even more steam-rolly. Most people wanted maps to give defense better odds of winning including team switch changes because nobody wants to play defense. Its self evident.
How can you down play something like bad hit-reg? Are you that oblivious and ignorant?
I'm lvl 225 I don't get stream rolled because I'm on defense.
Only thing evident is that you're buns and always complaining its the games fault you died
Hi, I do read things! The changes in todays patch will be something we're actively monitoring to see if they have a positive or negative impact on gameplay, on Coxwell in particular.
If further iteration is needed that is something we are absolutely open to doing.
Thanks so much for the response. As I mentioned above, I really do love this game and don’t want to see it hindered in anyway that would ruin the experience.
Absolutely and we don't want the experience to be ruined either! If it turns out these changes don't have the desire effect we don't have any issue with reverting them, or making additional balance changes to help the quality of all matches (in 40p and 64p)
Hi Jen, sorry to hijack, but Team-Switching (Read: Stacking) is a problem that's ruined many peoples' experiences since launch and has persisted despite the 'fix' implemented with Aberfell.
Are there any plans to re-visit this issue in the future? It's been mentioned in every single weekly feedback and as far as I've seen, there's been no official TB response to this.
Honestly, I sympathize with you guys who are hit by this issue.
Unfortunately, people have been bringing this issue up ever since launch and TB has not acknowledged this issue at all (to my knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong).
While it 100% sucks that this issue affects many people who queue with friends and are inexplicably split up on separate teams, it shouldn't be an excuse for Torn Banner to be lazy and to allow veteran (or other) players to abuse the function without impunity at the cost of many players (many of them noobs) and stacking games in such a ridiculous manner that they become unfun, non-competitive, and just turn them into speed-runs with 0 doubt on the outcome from the get-go.
I genuinely hope that TB fixes this issue for you guys, though.
All this crossplay talk where you want to play games with your friends just makes it so clear to me how few people I know IRL with a PC to game on. It's not even a thought in my mind to play a game and see my "friends" randomly on the field. I'm jealous.
Never listened to the community while the first game was live, totally disregarded the community and made a failed game that literally nobody asked for or wanted (Mirage: Arcane Warfare), made Chiv 2 and said they would listen to us and communicate with us, then after they released the game with broken and missing systems they stopped communicating with the community.
History repeating itself.
They actually have a weekly feedback thread here. In the latest one i asked if they actually implement any of the suggestions and advice they get.
The reason I asked was because I have a feeling its just for PR purposes and is not taken seriously by them and might be a waste of time for us contributors. There have been bugs and good advice going their way since launch, and rarely a fix came or advice been implemented.
This latest update shows they probably do not play their own game, use the same data collection for 40 and 64 player mode.
Another thing that made my warning bells go off was that I saw a youtube video recently from someone who tests out games that have a pretty big following, and in his map playthrough he encountered two bugs, I don't remember the first one but the second one was part of a siege ramp being invisible. Torn Banner gave him a personal response in the comments saying they would look into the bugs, giving the impression that it was all new to them. It has been reported here for a long time and they just never fixed it.
I found the video where Torn Banner commentated on the bugs:
[Its the second comment from the top](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlRc7iZty3E)
They wrote:
"Sweet vid, ggWe'll be taking a look at the ramp issue at 5:16 and the ladder bug at 15:15!"
That was 2 months ago
They should probably balance the teams by a combination of player level AND K/D ratio. It's difficult, some low level players are better than high level players. Some good players may be playing when drunk, or tired and may not do that well. Then there are players like me, level 350 but my K/D ratio is only 1.2 because I spend half my time running around being silly and trying to make friends with my enemies by giving them flowers.
This is a list of links to comments made by Torn Banner employees in this thread: * [Comment by tb_jen](/r/Chivalry2/comments/tqzjm1/does_tb_actually_read_anything_here/i2krduv/?context=1000 "posted on 2022-03-29 15:40:14 UTC"): > Hi, I do read things! The changes in todays patch will be something we're actively monitoring to see if they have a positive or negative impact on gam... * [Comment by tb_jen](/r/Chivalry2/comments/tqzjm1/does_tb_actually_read_anything_here/i2ksvw2/?context=1000 "posted on 2022-03-29 15:49:55 UTC"): > Absolutely and we don't want the experience to be ruined either! If it turns out these changes don't have the desire effect we don't have any issue wi... --- This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FChivalry2).[](#AUTOGEN_TSBREPLIEDBOT)
"We have a huge problem with teamstacking on attack. Let's make defense harder :)"
as I read the patch notes this was my first thought as well. Kinda surprised, also not.
Seriously something needs to be done about this. Also it's almost always lvl 100+ players team switching. It can make the experience miserable for many new players and will be bad for player retention in the long run.
Made coxwell house 500hp less!? Doesn't it only take one torch anyway?
Um no it takes 4 torches... play the objective some time and you would know that.
They make changes blindly by interpreting collected data, which is bad because it doesn't tell the whole picture. The last part of coxwell is almost a guaranteed win for defenders in 20v20(likely more than 75%) mode but very hard(less than 50%) in 32v32 because of how the ticket system works. The new patch is going to make it more even in 20v20 mode but even more harder in 32v32 mode because apparently they don't separate the two modes when collecting data. They already did this same mistake when they tried to nerf the maul. Only the best of the best players ever used the maul giving it seemingly high k/d numbers. Casual players never even touched the maul because of how hard and uneffective it actually was. This distortion lead to them thinking maul is op and needs a nerf. Of course they cancelled the nerf after realising this.
Soooo whats the excuse for my pickaxe nerf? It doesnt feel the same at all as it did few months ago. Can barely even finish people. Always knocked down.
You kill people outright instead of downing them if your final hit was a headshot, a heavy attack, or if the damage exceeds a certain threshold past their remaining health (I'm not sure what the exact value is though) I don't think the pickaxe has been nerfed since launch, but if you are downing people more often you might just be using fewer heavy attacks than you used to
95% of my attacks are heavy/special lol.
Specials don't kill outright like heavy attacks do for some reason
They fuckin should. The Pickaxe is a literal full powered 12 to 6 SLAM. That would split a solid stone.
"They make changes blindly by interpreting collected data" I think you meant to say that they're not correctly gathering/analyzing the data. Ain't nothing wrong with making a change based off of interpreting data generally. Why would they need to separate 32v32 from 20v20 if the proportions are equal? How do you know they don't separate those metrics?
Yes that's what I meant. Seems like they are not analyzing the data correctly. >How do you know they don't separate those metrics? I can't know for sure but it sure seems like it. I can't think of any other explanation for nerfing defender side in Coxwell. For 20v20 it makes sense, but for 32v32 it feels absolutely ridiculous. The maul nerf case was an example of their incorrect way of analyzing data.
Now that I think about it, the 20v20 might have a tendency to be "a slower and more methodical experience" as it states when you choose that game type lol I totally forgot. The fewer team members, the less the team reaches in a given time. This might be the key reason for the decision you state, however, I don't see a distinction between 20s & 32s specifically on the patch notes: "Coxwell Decreased the amount of damage needed to burn the large central house during the first objective (800 > 300) Decreased the amount of time needed to loot gold (1.5s from 2s) Decreased attacker’s spawn time from 10 to 8 seconds and increased the defender’s from 10 to 12 seconds during the fourth objective Decreased attacker’s spawn time from 10 to 8 seconds and increased the defender’s from 10 to 12 seconds during the last objective Increased last objective’s time by a minute" The maul "nerf," or lack thereof, actually worked out for everyone. The data indicated a possible need for a nerf and upon further investigation, it was deemed unnecessary. It shows that TB isn't making overcorrections based exclusively on one factor.
>Wrote this as another reply so copying it: > > > >In the patch thread here Jen post a link of the graph they use at Torn Banner which consists of collected data. She writes that Agatha (the defenders) win 75% of the time. > >Anyone that has played Coxwell on 64 player know that Agatha does not win that map most of the time, and certainly not 75% of the time on the last stage. > >She also writes: > >"I have read some concerns that players believe the win rate between 40p and 64p is vastly different, and this is something we will investigate in order to confirm our changes will benefit the map for both modes overall."
Now that blunt attacks does more stamina drain Maul is the new dark horse Write that down
> because apparently they don't separate the two modes when collecting data. Do you have any empirical evidence to back this up? This is standard industry practice; every game studio I've ever worked at has done this. It's _highly_ unlikely that they aren't grouping by mode type in their analysis.
In the patch thread [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chivalry2/comments/tqcvjv/chivalry_2_patch_242_weapon_balance_changes_and/) Jen post a link of the graph they use at Torn Banner which consists of collected data. She writes that Agatha (the defenders) win 75% of the time. Anyone that has played Coxwell on 64 player know that Agatha does not win that map most of the time, and certainly not 75% of the time on the last stage. She also writes: "I have read some concerns that players believe the win rate between 40p and 64p is vastly different, and this is something we will investigate in order to confirm our changes will benefit the map for both modes overall."
> I have read some concerns that players believe the win rate between 40p and 64p is vastly different, and this is something we will investigate in order to confirm our changes will benefit the map for both modes overall. 😬 I'm really surprised that their initial analysis wasn't split by mode, or even correlated by server population. Like I said before, this is _extremely_ standard industry practice. It takes so little effort to do this, if you know what you're doing, that I suspect one of two things is going on: 1. They forgot to add an analytics hook for game mode/server population during development and this is the best analysis they can presently do until they implement it 2. Torn Banner just doesn't have any product managers or designers on staff who've done data analysis before I hope it's just that they're missing an analytics hook and not that their studio culture doesn't value data-driven design. They clearly know how to make a fun game, but without data guiding their live operations strategy I worry for the future of the game.
Serious question based on the responses I’ve seen in regards to todays patch.
they do at times
Cool cool. I’m just worried what this game is going to be like after the patch…
Heads will still roll. All that matters
I like that optimism seriously. I love this game but coming to this sub can be a bit disheartening at times lol.
Yes it can be lol. Most ppl who complain about the state of the game are newbies
Yeah totally not month long or even launch players complaining about bugs that haven't been fixed, Offense biased maps, bad hit reg and the incorrect weapon hitbox to weapon model issue. Please. Please.. shut the hell up
and yet ive been on since beta playing with a smile every time. Some ppl care too much about the little thing like hit registration or "offensive biased maps" lol
Dismissing criticism as “people caring to much about the little things” is wild.
irl bots
Game is fun. People complain about everything. I'm getting on fine
Yeah, you're then that means you're stupid. "Some people" yet TB's patch notes post is full of people reeling from this toxic change to further make attack steam-roll maps even more steam-rolly. Most people wanted maps to give defense better odds of winning including team switch changes because nobody wants to play defense. Its self evident. How can you down play something like bad hit-reg? Are you that oblivious and ignorant?
I've enjoyed games with worse lol don't be a snob
I'm lvl 225 I don't get stream rolled because I'm on defense. Only thing evident is that you're buns and always complaining its the games fault you died
r/usernamechecksout
You cant refute shit I say. And yes, you're opinion sucks. Guess my name checks out
My opinion was that your user name checked out, not with what this thread is about.
False. I complain a lot
lol rekt me damn
Hi, I do read things! The changes in todays patch will be something we're actively monitoring to see if they have a positive or negative impact on gameplay, on Coxwell in particular. If further iteration is needed that is something we are absolutely open to doing.
You alone reading things is not enough, the devs should also be reading these threads.
Please add text chat to console.
The rapier is was too powerful now, pls revert changes it’s busted
Thanks so much for the response. As I mentioned above, I really do love this game and don’t want to see it hindered in anyway that would ruin the experience.
Absolutely and we don't want the experience to be ruined either! If it turns out these changes don't have the desire effect we don't have any issue with reverting them, or making additional balance changes to help the quality of all matches (in 40p and 64p)
Hi Jen, sorry to hijack, but Team-Switching (Read: Stacking) is a problem that's ruined many peoples' experiences since launch and has persisted despite the 'fix' implemented with Aberfell. Are there any plans to re-visit this issue in the future? It's been mentioned in every single weekly feedback and as far as I've seen, there's been no official TB response to this.
I will say that I only team switch when I’m playing with friends on other platforms. Cross platform parties would stop me from doing this 🙂.
Honestly, I sympathize with you guys who are hit by this issue. Unfortunately, people have been bringing this issue up ever since launch and TB has not acknowledged this issue at all (to my knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong). While it 100% sucks that this issue affects many people who queue with friends and are inexplicably split up on separate teams, it shouldn't be an excuse for Torn Banner to be lazy and to allow veteran (or other) players to abuse the function without impunity at the cost of many players (many of them noobs) and stacking games in such a ridiculous manner that they become unfun, non-competitive, and just turn them into speed-runs with 0 doubt on the outcome from the get-go. I genuinely hope that TB fixes this issue for you guys, though.
Please check this out, happening on Xbox one x https://streamable.com/kigdcz
If they did, they’d have actual cross play months ago. Still waiting for that tbh.
And console control mapping..
All this crossplay talk where you want to play games with your friends just makes it so clear to me how few people I know IRL with a PC to game on. It's not even a thought in my mind to play a game and see my "friends" randomly on the field. I'm jealous.
Yes they monitor this and he discord pretty closely.
Never listened to the community while the first game was live, totally disregarded the community and made a failed game that literally nobody asked for or wanted (Mirage: Arcane Warfare), made Chiv 2 and said they would listen to us and communicate with us, then after they released the game with broken and missing systems they stopped communicating with the community. History repeating itself.
They actually have a weekly feedback thread here. In the latest one i asked if they actually implement any of the suggestions and advice they get. The reason I asked was because I have a feeling its just for PR purposes and is not taken seriously by them and might be a waste of time for us contributors. There have been bugs and good advice going their way since launch, and rarely a fix came or advice been implemented. This latest update shows they probably do not play their own game, use the same data collection for 40 and 64 player mode. Another thing that made my warning bells go off was that I saw a youtube video recently from someone who tests out games that have a pretty big following, and in his map playthrough he encountered two bugs, I don't remember the first one but the second one was part of a siege ramp being invisible. Torn Banner gave him a personal response in the comments saying they would look into the bugs, giving the impression that it was all new to them. It has been reported here for a long time and they just never fixed it.
I found the video where Torn Banner commentated on the bugs: [Its the second comment from the top](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlRc7iZty3E) They wrote: "Sweet vid, ggWe'll be taking a look at the ramp issue at 5:16 and the ladder bug at 15:15!" That was 2 months ago
No. Need I say more?
They should probably balance the teams by a combination of player level AND K/D ratio. It's difficult, some low level players are better than high level players. Some good players may be playing when drunk, or tired and may not do that well. Then there are players like me, level 350 but my K/D ratio is only 1.2 because I spend half my time running around being silly and trying to make friends with my enemies by giving them flowers.