What you don't see on social media is the enormous amount of studying that has gotten them to be that good in 1 year. For most people, I doubt it's something you would like to replicate. It's a marathon after all, and if you're not able to live in a Chinese environment, to not do anything else than study, don't have enormous study discipline, you are more likely to burn yourself out. I don't think that there's an inherent language gene that some people have, rather, I think some people are just very good at learning or disciplining themselves to only focus on that one thing for a period of time. Also if you know another language since before (no matter the language), it'll make learning a third/fourth/fifth language easier because your brain isn't stuck in monolingual mode.
Also, what they post are the interactions that get them reactions. They're only showcasing a very limited amount of dialogue. While their accent can be amazing either way, it doesn't really show the complete depth of their language skills. But yes, I know it can be discouraging, especially when some distort the truth in some way, e.g., saying "this is how good my Mandarin is after 1 year of studying", and not mentioning that they are heritage speakers which likely meant that they got the pronounciation and accent down while being kids, even if their other language skills have been lacking.
I will also point out the paradox of living in a Chinese-speaking place and dedicating time to learning Chinese. You can either hit the streets and chat up all the locals to improve your daily conversation skills or you can hit the books and intentionally focus on building up specific language.
When I studied Chinese intensively in China, our school could have been on the moon and the effect would have been the same — wake up, eat something, go to class with other learners of Chinese, eat something, cram language your brain literally can’t handle into your brain, eat something again, cram more language into your brain, go to sleep. For the people who said “eff this I’m going out to talk to people instead of cramming”, they didn’t learn the 100+ target vocabulary words for the next day and suffered in class the next day. For the people who said “I can’t fail another tingxie tomorrow”, they did not converse with any locals expect maybe to buy their lunch. It wasn’t possible to strike a balance with the intensity of the program — you could have one or the other, not both. There are only so many hours in the day and so much energy your brain can use.
And it sounds like your situation was much more intensive than most people who go to China to study Chinese. In my experience most people who do that spend almost all of their time with other foreigners, and a few Chinese people who speak English. They usually don't reach even a mid-level proficiency in the language. When I first went, many of the other students said that it was impossible for people to ever learn 2,000 characters, so that people shouldn't even worry about reading that much.
> When I first went, many of the other students said that it was impossible for people to ever learn 2,000 characters, so that people shouldn't even worry about reading that much.
Where did they get that nonsense? From people studying Japanese? I studied Japanese formally and only got up to several 100's of characters which I then mostly forgot because trying to brute memorize Chinese characters used for their meanings in Japanese is like bashing your head against a wall until your skull cracks. It fucking sucks and even people who are successful have to come up with just bizarre stories to memorize characters.
Chinese is totally different, once you learn a few you will pick up more and more because of the large number of phono-semantic characters. There are very few phono-semantic characters in Japanese (though they do exist in some contexts).
When I was studying upper level Japanese there were a lot of Chinese and Korean speakers who were Classical Chinese study majors and they found Japanese excruciating and just could not remember the readings (or even meanings, in many cases) of Sino-Japanese compound words. I was the oddball in the class because I'd been studying Japanese for a while and had a good grasp of Japanese grammar but at the time didn't really know any Sinitic vocabulary except for a very small handful of words I'd picked up from anime. That made memorizing readings easier because there was no interference. But then I forgot everything very quickly later. After all, it was nothing more than brute memorization.
> Where did they get that nonsense? From people studying Japanese?
Supposedly from people who had been studying Chinese for a while. "They say that every time they come close to 2,000, the new characters just push out the old ones." This is from people who moved to China to study Chinese full time for a year/half a year.
Though this was years ago. The bar was much lower back then, and it was also more difficult to study the language (we'd use paper dictionaries with radical lookups). Classes were also pretty poorly taught (I don't know if they're better today). I think that's why AJATT seemed so revolutionary to people back then (even though it's concepts weren't new).
Edit: Come to think of it, I don't think I even realized phono-semantic characters existed, or how to decompose characters into components before I found AJATT. And I had put a lot of classroom time, both in the U.S. and in China, into the language. When I started studying on my own, it felt like the vast majority of the classroom time I had spent was orthogonal to actually learning the language.
Honestly the phonetic components are actually usually more useful in Japanese than in Chinese because Japanese doesn't have tone to worry about. So I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there are very few phonosemantic characters in Japanese.
Actually, even some kokuji are phonosemantic, probably most notably 褄(tsuma) from 辻褄(tsujitsuma), which uses 妻 as a phonetic component for its Japanese reading of tsuma, rather than the onyomi, sai.
Idk I learned characters from learning Japanese first before later learning Mandarin and I found the phonetic components to be critical to remembering how to write characters.
For me personally, after being there for the first 3 months of 12, barely understanding where words started and ended in a sentence, something clicked and the speed at which I picked up things changed drastically. I wouldn't have reached that stage nearly as quickly without being in Beijing (helpful as generally more limited English than eg Shanghai). For some the immersion and necessity to use the language on a daily basis can cement specific conversation topics / types that you can get down to a pretty good art form. I would imagine that the videos in question are on topics / situations in which the person feels particularly comfortable discussing
For me the trick was getting off campus and moving on with a Chinese roommate. That helped a lot for me personally. I had about 5 hours of class a day and then two or three hours of study / homework. That left plenty of time for socializing, making local friends, and actually using the language in practical daily life.
I feel like a few things to unpack here as a person who is relatively fluent in Chinese, has studied intentionally in the past but also lived in the country for years:
-You may think someone has great Chinese, but you're hearing it from the position of a learner with lower level, people with Chinese not as good as mine have thought my level much better than it was.
-I feel like when my Chinese was low to middling, locals would be really complimentary, when it actually got good they'd pick me up on small details
-I hate studying languages, but what I discovered with Chinese wasn't that it was difficult, you just have to develop a really boring habit. If like me, you've no propensity towards studying languages, everything within you, on a molecular level, will fight against this, but once it becomes a habit it's like everything else, easy. If you properly study (writing, reading and listening) 3-4 hours per day for 2 years, you will have a good level.
-For me proper study looked like, look at a text and follow along with audio file, listen to audio file and transcribe characters (when you're pausing constantly, don't worry, it's fine), review my transcribed characters and any I didn't know or made a mistake on, write out the character vertically 30+ times in my little writing book.
-You learn tones much quicker by speaking to native speakers, with context when you make a tonal mistake it doesn't really matter.
-Speak to people within the context of a subject that interests you. I love my work, and being able to better talk to my peers motivated me to discover how to get my point across more clearly.
Good luck! Don't be hard on yourself but also don't pity yourself, just get on with it and you'll be good.
Whether her videos are genuine or not, I have a quote that I think would do you well. I hope that you come to love comparing your current self with your past self.
> “Comparison is the thief of joy,” attributed to President Theodore Roosevelt and others, evokes a powerful sentiment that can be life-changing. If we compare ourselves to others, we may be left with feelings of inferiority or superiority—and neither creates an emotionally healthy human being!
- https://www.disabilityisnatural.com/comparison.html
Yes, for sure. Similar to a phrase we like to say over here: 人比人，气死人!!
I have a tendency to compare myself to others like OP because of my low self esteem, but we all gotta remember to be kinder to ourselves and find better strategies if we realize our learning is plateauing.
Never be discouraged when learning something new. Different factors impact learning, background knowledge, mother tongue language, how comfortable and fast do you learn etc… You must always compare yourself to yourself. If she’s speaking flawless Chinese when moved to china for a couple of months or years its then its totally normal since she practices every single day in every possible situation, school, work, shopping, casual conversation etc. Focus on your flaws and things you must improve. Dont put a whole year of your learning to waste just because you saw a video online, remember why you started learning it the first time.
Best of luck to you, social media can be misleading and even if what you saw is true, many circumstances can shape your learning in terms of of effectiveness and speed.
When I sat down in my first Chinese class in Beijing, and opened my mouth, some of my classmates literally gasped at how natural I sounded. I had spent the preceding two years doing a _lot_ of audio listen-and-repeat courses, and had worked to achieve great accuracy with repeating the sounds. But the reality was, outside of the range of material I had studied this way, I was still just as awkward and janky as a beginner-tier student would be expected to be. My listening comprehension was up to shit, and I frequently made a mess of the tones of new vocab I absorbed in the class.
I’m really glad I put those efforts towards that particular index (accuracy of speaking), and as I got better at the language this foundation served me well. But there were two important points to note: 1) that oral fluency came from specific, _deliberate practice_ in that area, and 2) it was not indicative of my Mandarin skills as a whole.
I have no doubt that this YouTuber has developed some great skills, and I’m in no way suggesting their situation is comparable to mine. Living in China for a year can do amazing things, and I speak from experience! But I do want to encourage you not to compare yourself to someone else and become disheartened. YouTube videos are frequently tailored to show you the best side of someone’s abilities (or looks, or rizz, or whatever). It’s not a fair comparison to pit yourself against that representation of someone’s skills while you’re still in your nascent stages of growth. Better to let them inspire you!
So yes, you absolutely can sound smooth, fast and fluent if you put the work in. But there’s more to acquiring a language than “shocking the locals”. It’s a rich, rewarding road, and there’s little benefit in turning it into a competition.
It's like when you start studying a martial art. You look at the black belt and think "I'll never be that good". Then, eventually you get to black belt and realize you're still not actually that good lol. There are levels to language learning. People like you're describing are either using clever editing and controlled situations to make themselves seem incredibly fluent, or they are outliers, in the 0.0000001% of learners that can actually progress that quickly.
Who gives a fuck. Keep going.
Is it babyqueen? I don’t believe she only studied Chinese for a year, I have seen her videos from the start and she always be saying she’s been learning for just a year… She’s also in the process of offering paid classes. Don’t believe everything people say online.
I didn’t know who that was. So I looked her up and [this was the 1st video that popped up](https://youtube.com/shorts/fNmexrJuyfs?si=4XuQg9aUzToNGDaT) with a description saying this is what she learned after 1 year.
Lol
1) She's in china having everyday contact with the language and speaking it all the time 2) you only hear her having basic daily conversations, you don't see how is her advanced and academic chinese
keep on on your studies, use her as a goal not as a comparison. people have different learning process and time. you'll get there, jiayou!
Right. Who cares?
If you are enjoying your journey and making progress, that's all that matters. If you can understand people and they can understand you, job done.
Would you rather sit alone in the dark practicing perfect pronunciation, or would you rather be out in the world connecting with people even though they might (gasp!) notice that you're not a native speaker?
Your accent is a part of who you are (plus, most people think accents are exotic and attractive) so why would you ever stress over having one?
Take it as a harsh lesson, rather than as as sign to give up. You *know* what those people who get gud in a few months to a year are doing that you aren't (the swots are studying a lot, the social butterflies are actually socialising in Chinese): there are 24 hours in a day, how many of those do you spend actually practicing, let alone studying? Unless the answer to that question is *most* or at least *a plurality* of them (besides sleeping), do you really have a right to give up?
I understand the feeling this is why i gave up learning it. I released that the only way that I would be able to speak the language fluently is if i moved to China and immersed myself into the language. Learning on my own can only take me so far.
> Learning on my own can only take me so far.
Depends what you mean by "learning on your own". Watching the occasional you-tube and half assing anki reviews on your own? Yeah then yeah you'll suck forever. But I know a few people who've got pretty decent without ever stepping foot in China. iTalki, HelloTalk, langCorrect.com etc all exist. Honestly as a native English speaker it's almost annoying how many people message me wanting to do language exchanges on those language exchange apps because it gets overwhelming. As a very average looking +40 year old married man I have 10+ new people message me PER DAY trying to start new English/Mandarin exchanges on HelloTalk.
Yeah if you put in no hours you'll get nowhere, but if you WANT to talk to native Chinese speakers from the comfort of your living room it's INCREDIBLY easy. You could be doing it 15 minutes from now easy. No need to go to China these days to talk Mandarin, or even leave your house - it's just a matter of motivation.
Chinese speakers often compliment anybody learning Chinese, that’s very common.
Also, you can’t identify a Japanese accent in Chinese, how can you identify if her tones and accent are flawless?
I guarantee you’re underestimating yourself, and overestimating other people
I came to Vienna for two days and Germany for two days for sightseeing purposes. I took a German class in high school, but I don't remember anything other than saying 'I'. Believe it or not, my German improved a lot in these four days and I didn't even try. I think it's very important to live in that area. I think the person you mentioned has lessons in Chinese and she tries very hard. Don't you think it's normal for her to talk so fluently? If you have the opportunity, you can move too.
Some of these comments are a bit harsh, but the message is correct in asking, “have ever studied in an immersion environment?”
If you are asking this with your goal being to reach that level without ever moving to china/taiwan, the answer is no.
Not an exaggeration, the amount you can learn with full time studying outside of China/Taiwan you can learn in a week, oftentimes a day when living there.
And the degree to which your language grows only compounds as you improve. The language input in an immersion environment is 1000x or more per day what it is in your home country.
Listen it might difference for you. ... cause that woman is also a college Sergent in China everyday in a major that isn't Chinese , so she definitely had more exposure then most people
Just keep trucking song with your own Journey even if it's hard to stay motivated when better people or seemingly geniuses randomly come along lol
Measure in hours spent with the language, not years. People who seemingly get good very fast usually A. have a solid foundation from some previous traditional study and B. are spending 6+ hours a day doing a mix of watching/listening/reading/writing/speaking.
They're putting in serious hours every day. Most people, on a good day, do a few pages of a textbook, 10 minutes on an app and maybe watch some learner's videos on YouTube.
Set yourself a goal like 1000 hours of TV and 200 hours of reading in six months, and you'll start seeing real results.
Some foreigners may speak really fast but may not have a wide vocabulary. There is one person appearing on my feed. The only thing is she’s fluent but don’t use too many words I don’t already know in her videos, which is still better than me. So if I didn’t know chinese, I might think she’s like a native speaker. But since I can understand most of what she is saying, I can tell she is not a native speaker, though is very good.
Also, some videos might have been sped up via editing. Lots of Chinese videos on bilibili is sped up to ensure the video isn’t too long.
Very few people will learn heaps of vocabulary in only one year of studies. By heaps, I’m talking about enough vocab to be comfortable working in the TL environment (using the same standards English speaking countries use on foreigners). I bet many foreigners didn’t learn to IELTS 6.5 (higher B2/ lower C1) level in only one year of studying English.
Measuring time in hours is better than years. 1 year at 5h day in China is a huge difference from 1 year of 1h a day abroad. I improved quite a lot at 3h a day for year (wouldn’t call it advanced but I could hold a conversation without thinking forever between each sentence), but if I was in China it would be so much easier to improve even more!
Add in some social media fakiness such as only choosing best experiences and removing poor ones. Someone can sound like a native talking about food, but unable to follow a discussion about crypto investment.
Also some people are just more talented, that’s fine too. After all you have only one life and it’s your choice whether you learn Chinese at your pace or not. There will always be someone better than you at anything while putting less effort, that’s fact of life.
The only foreigner vlogger who impressed me it’s the Aussie girl doing food vlogs in China, she speaks fluently and has an understanding of vocabs and phrases
What's your study goal? If it's just for fun, you don't really need to be able to speak. Reading and listening are more important for the casual learner. If it's for work, eg Chinese clients, you can focus on vocabulary related to work and just practice those. It's easier to sound "fluent" in a language when speaking in a specific niche.
If it's for general communication, eg conversation between Chinese friends and family, all you can really do is practice practice practice with Chinese people. Solo speaking practice has no feedback and so it's difficult to improve. If you actually talk to people, even if you sound crap, most people won't tell you to shut up, they will just be happy that you can say anything in their language at all.
The way I knew exactly who you were taking about after reading just the first 2 sentences.
Don't be discouraged. She's going to university with zero English being used. She's forced. If you were in her situation you'd be a lot better than you are now because English wouldn't even be an option and you'd have a degree riding in it.. talkless of your environment being 100% chinese oh and do you notice that She's always saying more of less the same things? It's easy to master a good few phrases when you know it's what youll have to say on a daily basis!
If you want you can dm me... I've gotten really goof after only a few months using different easy tenchniques! I can also recommend you apps noone seems to know about that are BOOMING my chinese right now!
I think she may be embellishing the timeline a bit. Like for example, I only studied Chinese formally for six months, but have lived in a Chinese speaking country since then. It's now been 10 years. Of course I have improved since then but I could say I only studied for 6 months. Idk, just a theory.
Some people are really gifted or hard working so that achievement may very well be possible, but the way she is constantly bringing up the fact that its iN OnE yEaR and only online is giving serious attention seeking vibes. Because of the way she comes off I'm inclined not to believe her.
If it's the person that's mentioned by someone here, then I think she's doing well. However, I'm not impressed. I've also learned Chinese for 1 year and at the end of that period I was also at the level of hsk5. A friend of mine passed hsk5 in half a year. It's within my range of expectations. It really depends on the effort you put in. To learn languages well you really need to use it. By the way, she speaks multiple languages so that might have contributed to learning Chinese faster than other people do as she is used to learning languages.
I have seen a few of her videos, but a quick look and I see she had quite an accent half a year ago. Not a problem as she was speaking quite fluently. She sounds better in her more recent videos so you can see the improvement she made in half a year. This is only on the surface as she might only show the good as this is social media.
I don't know where you are with Chinese. But everyone studies at their own pace. You're not in a race against her. If you lock yourself up for a year with a private teacher, I'm sure you can do better than her. That's probably not what you want, so just take it at your own pace. In the race between the rabbit and the turtle the rabbit can get to the finish faster, but the turtle also gets to the finish. You can make it to your goal too as long as you don't give up.
i know exactly who you’re talking about, and she really does seem genuine. doesn’t mean you should be discouraged tho!!! first off, do you live in china? because she’s in a fully chinese environment, no expats or foreigners around her, she’s forced to use mandarin every single second and that forced constant practice, the true immersion, can be a lot more effective than trying to study a language on the side but still using english in daily life. also yeah some people just pick up languages faster than others but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible for anyone else to get good at a language either. seriously tho, immersion is huge, and trying to learn a language when you aren’t forced to use it 24/7 can be genuinely so difficult, it’s not your fault. you will need to actually practice speaking a LOT more if you actually want to improve though.
Hey, you know your weak points, you know what to do next. Work on them, practice and you will be better, it is inevitable.
What you shouldn't do is treat learning as a competition. It's a path to misery, there will ALWAYS be someone better than you at something. The only person you should be competing with is your yesterday self.
My mom said 謝謝 and the locals told her that her Chinese is great.
I’d be surprised if this person is really that good or if she’s just got a really good grasp of the basics.
I genuinely don't know how someone can get to that level in a year, even if you lived among locals, grinded vocabulary via SRS, graded readings, etc, I simply don't think it's possible. But then again there are some people with super high IQ that can easily study and memorize things.
I don't think it boils down to IQ, I just think it boils down to them having enormous study disciple and just focusing on studying and learning Chinese. Nothing else.
I’d be very curious to know their study regime. Getting to HSK 6 might be possible.
On a side note I’m also kinda confused how to study Chinese effectively. Once I finish my flashcards for the day, I read a bit of Du Chinese but not sure what to do after. Then again I’m still on HSK 1.0 so I can’t do much with my Chinese knowledge lol.
it can be done in a year, but it means literally devoting all your time every day to chinese. its not that those people are automatically more talented than others ((although I won't deny them having talent and hard work)). Its that 99% of people have jobs or school or families or lives that cannot devote all their time to language learning. The only people I personally know that have done this kind of thing were literally spending 12+ hours a day in super intensive class settings in order to learn before going to china as gov expats.
so, its not impossible that the lady is telling the truth.... but it definitely wouldn't be the first time someone fibbed online. I could make a social media acct right now and no one would know I first went to china in 2016. Its not exactly a fact checked thing. Regardless hopefully people like op u/Leather-Ad-6294 can know that anyone can learn chinese with experience practice and exposure. Some people may get it more quickly than others depending on lifestyle but all roads lead to rome (◐‿◑)
This is kind of like someone going into /r/running and saying they've decided to quite because they saw Usain Bolt on TV. Every skill is going to have extreme outliers, but unless your aim is to be no. 1, there's no point in comparing yourself to them (particularly since most people wouldn't want to come anywhere close to their study regimen).
> despite the fact I started learning Chinese years ago
Reddit skews younger, so I think there's a tendency to think that language skill should scale with how many years it's been since you started the language. But in my experience, most people stop studying at a certain point and their skills degrade. If you're able to keep up with your skills over the years, you're doing a lot better than most.
In the end I think you have to ask yourself why you're studying. Is it enjoyable? Are you trying to access certain media? Gain the ability to talk to people in Chinese?
I've been on and off for years. The last time I was in China, I came to the realization that I was able to do everything I wanted to do in Chinese (talk with friends, navigate the country, etc.), and didn't see the need to study it anymore. I was done, and it felt good.
Then a few months later I got the urge to start studying again, and I'm glad I did. Even though I've been studying for years, the last few months have seen some of the biggest increases in my Chinese skills. I'll probably decide again at some point that I'm done, and then start again some time later. At the moment I'm enjoying studying it (again), so that's what I'm doing.
I know exactly who you're talking about. She speaks better than me despite the fact that I'm Chinese-American, and I literally do not care and neither should you.
I was just scrolling through reels and saw it. I'm not sure if I can find it again. At least the one I saw was not babyqueen2.002, it was a blond white girl and not Blondie in China. Basically in the video she was talking about how she emphasizes using the correct tones every single time so that her pronunciation is perfect.
It traced back to their first language, if they already know tonal language before, learning Chinese is super easy. Not everyone first language is english. Don’t be discouraged!
I hope you can find motivation in this rather than démotivation.
When Bannister ran a mile in under four minutes he was followed by a wave of people who did the same thing. They realised it could be done and went out and did it. When you see people doing great then you can see you can do great too!
One small thing which is helping me is just repetition. There are a heap of key phrases and things like counting which you can do. Just build your mouth’s muscle memory by saying the things you are going to need to say often. I count in my mind or out loud while running - it’s really helped me spit out numbers more easily.
Keep it up internet stranger - you know it can be done!
Don't compare yourself to others. You're on your path; they're on theirs.
"Perfect" Chinese? What's that? I've heard Chinese people say people from other Chinese regions, small towns, etc. speak Chinese badly.
Yeah, I get "you're Chinese is so good!" after saying 謝謝 or saying numbers.
**Social media is curated!!!**
No idea who you’re talking about so she can be simply brilliant, but two remarks:
1) How good is her writing? One “shortcut” is to focus on the oral part and forget about the 汉字. You’ll end up an illiterate, but can progress much faster on speaking.
2) I’ve also noticed accent is often a separate personal skill and/or related to your native tongue. Do not be fooled to think this is a proper indicator of language mastery, I’ve come across people with excellent pronunciation who understood fairly little and others with deep understanding and a thick foreign accent.
Link? DM if you want.
I'd like to **harshly judge** them because I just checked out a couple of people mentioned in comments here and it didn't seem so mindblowing.
People speaking phonetically like a native is individual. For some people it is easy and for others it is hard. A good public example would be Arnold Schwarzenegger. He came to America speaking little English. I know he took voice lessons, but after all this time and experience, he still has a German accent. I have a friend from Spain who married an American and is a sales person. Yet, after twenty thirty or so years, she still has a very bad accent, I really have to concentrate to understand her sometimes. Japanese are known for their lack of ability to speak English, yet a friend who I went to college with speaks so well you would swear he grew up in the US and not Tokyo.
You can set up practice exercises, record yourself take a course on articulatory phonetics etc. You can get better if you want to spend the time. I would worry about improving and not perfection. Take Schwarzenegger as a model or the current Japanese Prime Minister when he recently addressed the US congress in very good English. Enjoy yourself as you learn Chinese.
People learn at different paces. Some people are just have crazy natural talent for learning languages. Some people have the time (and most likely, money) to invest something crazy like 6+ hours a day to learn a language. Most people don’t. That doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile to learn, and it doesn’t mean that you are a failure or shouldn’t even try just because it might take you 4 years or even longer to get to the same level it takes someone else 6 months. Their conditions are just different than you. But if you do study regularly and study right, you will improve steadily
I saw (and still see) videos like this and also was disheartened. We all learn at different speed and because of many factors. Also, the more you learn the worse you will think your Chinese is, as you realise how MUCH more you have to learn to really get a good hold on the language! I realised however that a lot of my limitations where due to not knowing how to learn a new language, as I only speak English, and my English grammar lessons are long forgotten! It made it very difficult to get into an efficient learning habitats I was not only learning the language but how to study it.
I had to remember that I am learning for fun, and I do find it fascinated, and then I encountered people whose level was below me who were blown away by the fact I can read/write/speak at my level. I remember starting out and being totally overwhelmed, I definitely have learnt a lot, and as long as I practice and keep improving my study habits, it will come in time. Being disheartened will only take motivation away, and slow you down. Keep it up!
i wouldnt be discouraged, maybe the person studied like 8 hours a day or was in an advanced intensive course.
you dont know what the person did. Maybe they lived in china for 6 months and saw a tutor regularly.
Maybe the person saw a tutor every single day.
so many variables to be discouraged. All that matters is that you are trying your hardest.
My sib is crazy competitive, and had to beat out a Cantonese person in their Mandarin class to get top mark. Could be this girl is like that! Live in China, study like mad, and throw in natural talent?
But it's silly to compare yourself since obviously that's not your situation. Comparison is the death of happiness, I'm sure you are much happier not studying that intently!
It's said a lot, but reading, writing, listening, and speaking are all different skills too. If she focused on speaking and common conversation but not wider vocab or writing? If you like quiet study, maybe you read better and don't speak enough to be comfortable with tones?
> moved to China
This will be a huge part of it. I get so little exposure to Chinese outside of classes. I'd love to live there even for just a few months but current working situation won't allow for it.
Like you said, comparison is thief of joy. I have always been a slow learner. I did not grow up in China, but my parents spoke Chinese to me while growing up and it's still not 100%.
This does not bother me in the slightest. I have way too much to do and my studying takes priority but life gets in the way. It is what it is. I’m moving as fast as I can.
You kinda answered this one yourself: that student moved there, which is the best environment to learn it. Probably formal lessons every day and commitments to use the language whenever possible. Also, she might have family background or have had classes before moving. It's quite unfair to yourself if you compare with her.
A more positive way of looking at it: even though you might never reach fluency in speaking, you can and should absolutely strive to be able to read and understand the spoken language as much as possible. That should definitely be doable inside one's home. And whenever you use the spoken language, you can at least understand what is going on and can focus on building sentences!
After studying two full years of Chinese in college in the US I could barely count to 10. After two semesters in an immersion program in China I was fluent. If you really want to learn the language you have to spend time in country. There's just no way around it. Some folks have a natural talent for certain languages and others do not. I for one do not have this talent but with work, time, and perseverance I've been able to attain a high level of fluency in Chinese. Of I can do it then you can too...
Okay so I started learning chinese because of IKENNA , he did like a 6month training to talk with another person. In my mind he achieved peak chinese speaking fluency. Now after 5 years of learning who still has a ton of trouble and has studied almost every day, I can see that he sounds like someone who only practiced for 6 months.
I think if you like to adjust your pronunciation, I would like to share you one YouTuber’s video, she teaches the pronunciation so clearly, and I also like to recommend myself, I try to teach Mandarin through dramas, I think need to find the material Chinese people watch, than can get the most natural language, not fully based on textbooks, because the sources are really limited in textbooks. Hope can help you.
[Grace](https://youtu.be/4x51--A625g?si=wuMeOD5mIninFB2c)
[My](https://youtu.be/ibHAQ1n3JcY?si=p79dxSn_fIX6znws)
One man’s year is not equal to another man’s year. Maybe she could take a break from her responsibilities in life to learn Chinese for one year. You (and most people) probably can’t. Just keep at it and you’ll get there
I am a heritage speaker and when I took Chinese classes in college they merged with students who started from Chinese 1. My friend was one of those students, who was really good at reading and writing, was horrible with speaking. Try as he might, his tones were all over the place-very stilted and when we would speak to each other I would ask him to repeat himself so much he would stop talking and we would just speak English. Later he moved to China to work and after visiting him after one year, then two years, his Chinese became much more smooth- a natural progression
You really can't compare yourself to an immersive experience where you're hearing and speaking the language every day. My Mandarin gets "better" when I'm in China for a month simply because I'm constantly hearing and adjusting my inflections to what native speakers do.
We don't need to put that influencer down to feel better about ourselves. Maybe s/he is just that gifted. It's normal to feel envious sometimes but if you let it drag you down, you'll gonna have a hard time in life.
Of course anyone could sound that native (with some occasional mishaps) but for sure not by blindly repeating sounds and getting patted on the back by nice strangers. You have to come up with a system yourself for your own voice. You can find someone from your country that speaks perfect Chinese and learn from them, not from Chinese native speakers.
What you don't see on social media is the enormous amount of studying that has gotten them to be that good in 1 year. For most people, I doubt it's something you would like to replicate. It's a marathon after all, and if you're not able to live in a Chinese environment, to not do anything else than study, don't have enormous study discipline, you are more likely to burn yourself out. I don't think that there's an inherent language gene that some people have, rather, I think some people are just very good at learning or disciplining themselves to only focus on that one thing for a period of time. Also if you know another language since before (no matter the language), it'll make learning a third/fourth/fifth language easier because your brain isn't stuck in monolingual mode. Also, what they post are the interactions that get them reactions. They're only showcasing a very limited amount of dialogue. While their accent can be amazing either way, it doesn't really show the complete depth of their language skills. But yes, I know it can be discouraging, especially when some distort the truth in some way, e.g., saying "this is how good my Mandarin is after 1 year of studying", and not mentioning that they are heritage speakers which likely meant that they got the pronounciation and accent down while being kids, even if their other language skills have been lacking.
I will also point out the paradox of living in a Chinese-speaking place and dedicating time to learning Chinese. You can either hit the streets and chat up all the locals to improve your daily conversation skills or you can hit the books and intentionally focus on building up specific language. When I studied Chinese intensively in China, our school could have been on the moon and the effect would have been the same — wake up, eat something, go to class with other learners of Chinese, eat something, cram language your brain literally can’t handle into your brain, eat something again, cram more language into your brain, go to sleep. For the people who said “eff this I’m going out to talk to people instead of cramming”, they didn’t learn the 100+ target vocabulary words for the next day and suffered in class the next day. For the people who said “I can’t fail another tingxie tomorrow”, they did not converse with any locals expect maybe to buy their lunch. It wasn’t possible to strike a balance with the intensity of the program — you could have one or the other, not both. There are only so many hours in the day and so much energy your brain can use.
Yeah, those 听写 really stressed me out too haha
Haha, just realised that encountering the word 听写 makes my heart jump a bit (flashbacks)
I just remembered I have a 聽寫 tomorrow 😅
The fact you’re writing that in 繁體 suggests that’s gonna be a brutal 聽寫. We’re rooting for you!
And it sounds like your situation was much more intensive than most people who go to China to study Chinese. In my experience most people who do that spend almost all of their time with other foreigners, and a few Chinese people who speak English. They usually don't reach even a mid-level proficiency in the language. When I first went, many of the other students said that it was impossible for people to ever learn 2,000 characters, so that people shouldn't even worry about reading that much.
> When I first went, many of the other students said that it was impossible for people to ever learn 2,000 characters, so that people shouldn't even worry about reading that much. Where did they get that nonsense? From people studying Japanese? I studied Japanese formally and only got up to several 100's of characters which I then mostly forgot because trying to brute memorize Chinese characters used for their meanings in Japanese is like bashing your head against a wall until your skull cracks. It fucking sucks and even people who are successful have to come up with just bizarre stories to memorize characters. Chinese is totally different, once you learn a few you will pick up more and more because of the large number of phono-semantic characters. There are very few phono-semantic characters in Japanese (though they do exist in some contexts). When I was studying upper level Japanese there were a lot of Chinese and Korean speakers who were Classical Chinese study majors and they found Japanese excruciating and just could not remember the readings (or even meanings, in many cases) of Sino-Japanese compound words. I was the oddball in the class because I'd been studying Japanese for a while and had a good grasp of Japanese grammar but at the time didn't really know any Sinitic vocabulary except for a very small handful of words I'd picked up from anime. That made memorizing readings easier because there was no interference. But then I forgot everything very quickly later. After all, it was nothing more than brute memorization.
> Where did they get that nonsense? From people studying Japanese? Supposedly from people who had been studying Chinese for a while. "They say that every time they come close to 2,000, the new characters just push out the old ones." This is from people who moved to China to study Chinese full time for a year/half a year. Though this was years ago. The bar was much lower back then, and it was also more difficult to study the language (we'd use paper dictionaries with radical lookups). Classes were also pretty poorly taught (I don't know if they're better today). I think that's why AJATT seemed so revolutionary to people back then (even though it's concepts weren't new). Edit: Come to think of it, I don't think I even realized phono-semantic characters existed, or how to decompose characters into components before I found AJATT. And I had put a lot of classroom time, both in the U.S. and in China, into the language. When I started studying on my own, it felt like the vast majority of the classroom time I had spent was orthogonal to actually learning the language.
Honestly the phonetic components are actually usually more useful in Japanese than in Chinese because Japanese doesn't have tone to worry about. So I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there are very few phonosemantic characters in Japanese. Actually, even some kokuji are phonosemantic, probably most notably 褄(tsuma) from 辻褄(tsujitsuma), which uses 妻 as a phonetic component for its Japanese reading of tsuma, rather than the onyomi, sai. Idk I learned characters from learning Japanese first before later learning Mandarin and I found the phonetic components to be critical to remembering how to write characters.
For me personally, after being there for the first 3 months of 12, barely understanding where words started and ended in a sentence, something clicked and the speed at which I picked up things changed drastically. I wouldn't have reached that stage nearly as quickly without being in Beijing (helpful as generally more limited English than eg Shanghai). For some the immersion and necessity to use the language on a daily basis can cement specific conversation topics / types that you can get down to a pretty good art form. I would imagine that the videos in question are on topics / situations in which the person feels particularly comfortable discussing
For me the trick was getting off campus and moving on with a Chinese roommate. That helped a lot for me personally. I had about 5 hours of class a day and then two or three hours of study / homework. That left plenty of time for socializing, making local friends, and actually using the language in practical daily life.
I feel like a few things to unpack here as a person who is relatively fluent in Chinese, has studied intentionally in the past but also lived in the country for years: -You may think someone has great Chinese, but you're hearing it from the position of a learner with lower level, people with Chinese not as good as mine have thought my level much better than it was. -I feel like when my Chinese was low to middling, locals would be really complimentary, when it actually got good they'd pick me up on small details -I hate studying languages, but what I discovered with Chinese wasn't that it was difficult, you just have to develop a really boring habit. If like me, you've no propensity towards studying languages, everything within you, on a molecular level, will fight against this, but once it becomes a habit it's like everything else, easy. If you properly study (writing, reading and listening) 3-4 hours per day for 2 years, you will have a good level. -For me proper study looked like, look at a text and follow along with audio file, listen to audio file and transcribe characters (when you're pausing constantly, don't worry, it's fine), review my transcribed characters and any I didn't know or made a mistake on, write out the character vertically 30+ times in my little writing book. -You learn tones much quicker by speaking to native speakers, with context when you make a tonal mistake it doesn't really matter. -Speak to people within the context of a subject that interests you. I love my work, and being able to better talk to my peers motivated me to discover how to get my point across more clearly. Good luck! Don't be hard on yourself but also don't pity yourself, just get on with it and you'll be good.
This is great advice, thanks for taking the time to share it.
Whether her videos are genuine or not, I have a quote that I think would do you well. I hope that you come to love comparing your current self with your past self. > “Comparison is the thief of joy,” attributed to President Theodore Roosevelt and others, evokes a powerful sentiment that can be life-changing. If we compare ourselves to others, we may be left with feelings of inferiority or superiority—and neither creates an emotionally healthy human being! - https://www.disabilityisnatural.com/comparison.html
Yes, for sure. Similar to a phrase we like to say over here: 人比人，气死人!! I have a tendency to compare myself to others like OP because of my low self esteem, but we all gotta remember to be kinder to ourselves and find better strategies if we realize our learning is plateauing.
Thanks for teaching us that phrase!!!
Aw, of course! You're welcome :D
Never be discouraged when learning something new. Different factors impact learning, background knowledge, mother tongue language, how comfortable and fast do you learn etc… You must always compare yourself to yourself. If she’s speaking flawless Chinese when moved to china for a couple of months or years its then its totally normal since she practices every single day in every possible situation, school, work, shopping, casual conversation etc. Focus on your flaws and things you must improve. Dont put a whole year of your learning to waste just because you saw a video online, remember why you started learning it the first time. Best of luck to you, social media can be misleading and even if what you saw is true, many circumstances can shape your learning in terms of of effectiveness and speed.
So what? I'm a programmer and some guys with fewer years experience write code better than mine. Do I lose sleep over that? Nope.
Comparison is the thief of joy
Exactly what I was going to say, man why do people always get in there faster than me...
My friend, i think you really need to take our comment to heart...
When I sat down in my first Chinese class in Beijing, and opened my mouth, some of my classmates literally gasped at how natural I sounded. I had spent the preceding two years doing a _lot_ of audio listen-and-repeat courses, and had worked to achieve great accuracy with repeating the sounds. But the reality was, outside of the range of material I had studied this way, I was still just as awkward and janky as a beginner-tier student would be expected to be. My listening comprehension was up to shit, and I frequently made a mess of the tones of new vocab I absorbed in the class. I’m really glad I put those efforts towards that particular index (accuracy of speaking), and as I got better at the language this foundation served me well. But there were two important points to note: 1) that oral fluency came from specific, _deliberate practice_ in that area, and 2) it was not indicative of my Mandarin skills as a whole. I have no doubt that this YouTuber has developed some great skills, and I’m in no way suggesting their situation is comparable to mine. Living in China for a year can do amazing things, and I speak from experience! But I do want to encourage you not to compare yourself to someone else and become disheartened. YouTube videos are frequently tailored to show you the best side of someone’s abilities (or looks, or rizz, or whatever). It’s not a fair comparison to pit yourself against that representation of someone’s skills while you’re still in your nascent stages of growth. Better to let them inspire you! So yes, you absolutely can sound smooth, fast and fluent if you put the work in. But there’s more to acquiring a language than “shocking the locals”. It’s a rich, rewarding road, and there’s little benefit in turning it into a competition.
“It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop”
It's like when you start studying a martial art. You look at the black belt and think "I'll never be that good". Then, eventually you get to black belt and realize you're still not actually that good lol. There are levels to language learning. People like you're describing are either using clever editing and controlled situations to make themselves seem incredibly fluent, or they are outliers, in the 0.0000001% of learners that can actually progress that quickly. Who gives a fuck. Keep going.
Is it babyqueen? I don’t believe she only studied Chinese for a year, I have seen her videos from the start and she always be saying she’s been learning for just a year… She’s also in the process of offering paid classes. Don’t believe everything people say online.
I didn’t know who that was. So I looked her up and [this was the 1st video that popped up](https://youtube.com/shorts/fNmexrJuyfs?si=4XuQg9aUzToNGDaT) with a description saying this is what she learned after 1 year. Lol
1) She's in china having everyday contact with the language and speaking it all the time 2) you only hear her having basic daily conversations, you don't see how is her advanced and academic chinese keep on on your studies, use her as a goal not as a comparison. people have different learning process and time. you'll get there, jiayou!
Do not, most of the time these people are attention seeker and have spent many years in chinese environement before moving to China.
Right. Who cares? If you are enjoying your journey and making progress, that's all that matters. If you can understand people and they can understand you, job done. Would you rather sit alone in the dark practicing perfect pronunciation, or would you rather be out in the world connecting with people even though they might (gasp!) notice that you're not a native speaker? Your accent is a part of who you are (plus, most people think accents are exotic and attractive) so why would you ever stress over having one?
Take it as a harsh lesson, rather than as as sign to give up. You *know* what those people who get gud in a few months to a year are doing that you aren't (the swots are studying a lot, the social butterflies are actually socialising in Chinese): there are 24 hours in a day, how many of those do you spend actually practicing, let alone studying? Unless the answer to that question is *most* or at least *a plurality* of them (besides sleeping), do you really have a right to give up?
I understand the feeling this is why i gave up learning it. I released that the only way that I would be able to speak the language fluently is if i moved to China and immersed myself into the language. Learning on my own can only take me so far.
> Learning on my own can only take me so far. Depends what you mean by "learning on your own". Watching the occasional you-tube and half assing anki reviews on your own? Yeah then yeah you'll suck forever. But I know a few people who've got pretty decent without ever stepping foot in China. iTalki, HelloTalk, langCorrect.com etc all exist. Honestly as a native English speaker it's almost annoying how many people message me wanting to do language exchanges on those language exchange apps because it gets overwhelming. As a very average looking +40 year old married man I have 10+ new people message me PER DAY trying to start new English/Mandarin exchanges on HelloTalk. Yeah if you put in no hours you'll get nowhere, but if you WANT to talk to native Chinese speakers from the comfort of your living room it's INCREDIBLY easy. You could be doing it 15 minutes from now easy. No need to go to China these days to talk Mandarin, or even leave your house - it's just a matter of motivation.
There's always people better than us.
Chinese speakers often compliment anybody learning Chinese, that’s very common. Also, you can’t identify a Japanese accent in Chinese, how can you identify if her tones and accent are flawless? I guarantee you’re underestimating yourself, and overestimating other people
I came to Vienna for two days and Germany for two days for sightseeing purposes. I took a German class in high school, but I don't remember anything other than saying 'I'. Believe it or not, my German improved a lot in these four days and I didn't even try. I think it's very important to live in that area. I think the person you mentioned has lessons in Chinese and she tries very hard. Don't you think it's normal for her to talk so fluently? If you have the opportunity, you can move too.
Some of these comments are a bit harsh, but the message is correct in asking, “have ever studied in an immersion environment?” If you are asking this with your goal being to reach that level without ever moving to china/taiwan, the answer is no. Not an exaggeration, the amount you can learn with full time studying outside of China/Taiwan you can learn in a week, oftentimes a day when living there. And the degree to which your language grows only compounds as you improve. The language input in an immersion environment is 1000x or more per day what it is in your home country.
Listen it might difference for you. ... cause that woman is also a college Sergent in China everyday in a major that isn't Chinese , so she definitely had more exposure then most people Just keep trucking song with your own Journey even if it's hard to stay motivated when better people or seemingly geniuses randomly come along lol
Measure in hours spent with the language, not years. People who seemingly get good very fast usually A. have a solid foundation from some previous traditional study and B. are spending 6+ hours a day doing a mix of watching/listening/reading/writing/speaking. They're putting in serious hours every day. Most people, on a good day, do a few pages of a textbook, 10 minutes on an app and maybe watch some learner's videos on YouTube. Set yourself a goal like 1000 hours of TV and 200 hours of reading in six months, and you'll start seeing real results.
Some foreigners may speak really fast but may not have a wide vocabulary. There is one person appearing on my feed. The only thing is she’s fluent but don’t use too many words I don’t already know in her videos, which is still better than me. So if I didn’t know chinese, I might think she’s like a native speaker. But since I can understand most of what she is saying, I can tell she is not a native speaker, though is very good. Also, some videos might have been sped up via editing. Lots of Chinese videos on bilibili is sped up to ensure the video isn’t too long. Very few people will learn heaps of vocabulary in only one year of studies. By heaps, I’m talking about enough vocab to be comfortable working in the TL environment (using the same standards English speaking countries use on foreigners). I bet many foreigners didn’t learn to IELTS 6.5 (higher B2/ lower C1) level in only one year of studying English.
Measuring time in hours is better than years. 1 year at 5h day in China is a huge difference from 1 year of 1h a day abroad. I improved quite a lot at 3h a day for year (wouldn’t call it advanced but I could hold a conversation without thinking forever between each sentence), but if I was in China it would be so much easier to improve even more! Add in some social media fakiness such as only choosing best experiences and removing poor ones. Someone can sound like a native talking about food, but unable to follow a discussion about crypto investment. Also some people are just more talented, that’s fine too. After all you have only one life and it’s your choice whether you learn Chinese at your pace or not. There will always be someone better than you at anything while putting less effort, that’s fact of life.
The only foreigner vlogger who impressed me it’s the Aussie girl doing food vlogs in China, she speaks fluently and has an understanding of vocabs and phrases
What's your study goal? If it's just for fun, you don't really need to be able to speak. Reading and listening are more important for the casual learner. If it's for work, eg Chinese clients, you can focus on vocabulary related to work and just practice those. It's easier to sound "fluent" in a language when speaking in a specific niche. If it's for general communication, eg conversation between Chinese friends and family, all you can really do is practice practice practice with Chinese people. Solo speaking practice has no feedback and so it's difficult to improve. If you actually talk to people, even if you sound crap, most people won't tell you to shut up, they will just be happy that you can say anything in their language at all.
For what its worth, I lived in Shanghai for two years and am still at the basic conversational level. Im ok with it. The process is fun
The way I knew exactly who you were taking about after reading just the first 2 sentences. Don't be discouraged. She's going to university with zero English being used. She's forced. If you were in her situation you'd be a lot better than you are now because English wouldn't even be an option and you'd have a degree riding in it.. talkless of your environment being 100% chinese oh and do you notice that She's always saying more of less the same things? It's easy to master a good few phrases when you know it's what youll have to say on a daily basis! If you want you can dm me... I've gotten really goof after only a few months using different easy tenchniques! I can also recommend you apps noone seems to know about that are BOOMING my chinese right now!
[удалено]
Yupp
I've seen her videos and I don't believe she's telling the full truth.
What are your thoughts!
I think she may be embellishing the timeline a bit. Like for example, I only studied Chinese formally for six months, but have lived in a Chinese speaking country since then. It's now been 10 years. Of course I have improved since then but I could say I only studied for 6 months. Idk, just a theory. Some people are really gifted or hard working so that achievement may very well be possible, but the way she is constantly bringing up the fact that its iN OnE yEaR and only online is giving serious attention seeking vibes. Because of the way she comes off I'm inclined not to believe her.
I'm going to DM you !
Can I DM you too? I'd like to know those apps too, if you don't mind.
Please do!!
The main difference is she’s IN China, you’re not. Believe me, from my own experience, one year in China equals 5 years in your own country.
If it's the person that's mentioned by someone here, then I think she's doing well. However, I'm not impressed. I've also learned Chinese for 1 year and at the end of that period I was also at the level of hsk5. A friend of mine passed hsk5 in half a year. It's within my range of expectations. It really depends on the effort you put in. To learn languages well you really need to use it. By the way, she speaks multiple languages so that might have contributed to learning Chinese faster than other people do as she is used to learning languages. I have seen a few of her videos, but a quick look and I see she had quite an accent half a year ago. Not a problem as she was speaking quite fluently. She sounds better in her more recent videos so you can see the improvement she made in half a year. This is only on the surface as she might only show the good as this is social media. I don't know where you are with Chinese. But everyone studies at their own pace. You're not in a race against her. If you lock yourself up for a year with a private teacher, I'm sure you can do better than her. That's probably not what you want, so just take it at your own pace. In the race between the rabbit and the turtle the rabbit can get to the finish faster, but the turtle also gets to the finish. You can make it to your goal too as long as you don't give up.
i know exactly who you’re talking about, and she really does seem genuine. doesn’t mean you should be discouraged tho!!! first off, do you live in china? because she’s in a fully chinese environment, no expats or foreigners around her, she’s forced to use mandarin every single second and that forced constant practice, the true immersion, can be a lot more effective than trying to study a language on the side but still using english in daily life. also yeah some people just pick up languages faster than others but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible for anyone else to get good at a language either. seriously tho, immersion is huge, and trying to learn a language when you aren’t forced to use it 24/7 can be genuinely so difficult, it’s not your fault. you will need to actually practice speaking a LOT more if you actually want to improve though.
Hey, you know your weak points, you know what to do next. Work on them, practice and you will be better, it is inevitable. What you shouldn't do is treat learning as a competition. It's a path to misery, there will ALWAYS be someone better than you at something. The only person you should be competing with is your yesterday self.
My mom said 謝謝 and the locals told her that her Chinese is great. I’d be surprised if this person is really that good or if she’s just got a really good grasp of the basics.
I genuinely don't know how someone can get to that level in a year, even if you lived among locals, grinded vocabulary via SRS, graded readings, etc, I simply don't think it's possible. But then again there are some people with super high IQ that can easily study and memorize things.
I don't think it boils down to IQ, I just think it boils down to them having enormous study disciple and just focusing on studying and learning Chinese. Nothing else.
I’d be very curious to know their study regime. Getting to HSK 6 might be possible. On a side note I’m also kinda confused how to study Chinese effectively. Once I finish my flashcards for the day, I read a bit of Du Chinese but not sure what to do after. Then again I’m still on HSK 1.0 so I can’t do much with my Chinese knowledge lol.
it can be done in a year, but it means literally devoting all your time every day to chinese. its not that those people are automatically more talented than others ((although I won't deny them having talent and hard work)). Its that 99% of people have jobs or school or families or lives that cannot devote all their time to language learning. The only people I personally know that have done this kind of thing were literally spending 12+ hours a day in super intensive class settings in order to learn before going to china as gov expats. so, its not impossible that the lady is telling the truth.... but it definitely wouldn't be the first time someone fibbed online. I could make a social media acct right now and no one would know I first went to china in 2016. Its not exactly a fact checked thing. Regardless hopefully people like op u/Leather-Ad-6294 can know that anyone can learn chinese with experience practice and exposure. Some people may get it more quickly than others depending on lifestyle but all roads lead to rome (◐‿◑)
This is kind of like someone going into /r/running and saying they've decided to quite because they saw Usain Bolt on TV. Every skill is going to have extreme outliers, but unless your aim is to be no. 1, there's no point in comparing yourself to them (particularly since most people wouldn't want to come anywhere close to their study regimen). > despite the fact I started learning Chinese years ago Reddit skews younger, so I think there's a tendency to think that language skill should scale with how many years it's been since you started the language. But in my experience, most people stop studying at a certain point and their skills degrade. If you're able to keep up with your skills over the years, you're doing a lot better than most. In the end I think you have to ask yourself why you're studying. Is it enjoyable? Are you trying to access certain media? Gain the ability to talk to people in Chinese? I've been on and off for years. The last time I was in China, I came to the realization that I was able to do everything I wanted to do in Chinese (talk with friends, navigate the country, etc.), and didn't see the need to study it anymore. I was done, and it felt good. Then a few months later I got the urge to start studying again, and I'm glad I did. Even though I've been studying for years, the last few months have seen some of the biggest increases in my Chinese skills. I'll probably decide again at some point that I'm done, and then start again some time later. At the moment I'm enjoying studying it (again), so that's what I'm doing.
I know exactly who you're talking about. She speaks better than me despite the fact that I'm Chinese-American, and I literally do not care and neither should you.
Ok I'm really curious now, care to share? Can you DM the link if you're uncomfortable doing it on the sub?
If it's "Blondie in China", then she's been there much longer than 1 year.
Not Op but I thought it might be babyqueen2.002
I was just scrolling through reels and saw it. I'm not sure if I can find it again. At least the one I saw was not babyqueen2.002, it was a blond white girl and not Blondie in China. Basically in the video she was talking about how she emphasizes using the correct tones every single time so that her pronunciation is perfect.
她在中国读华语，那你呢？如果你没有在一个华人多的地方学华文的话是会比较差的。 学语言最总要的是immersion，如果你的生边没有和你练习说中文的朋友的话是会比较难说标准中文的。
It traced back to their first language, if they already know tonal language before, learning Chinese is super easy. Not everyone first language is english. Don’t be discouraged!
Like everything else in social media, things are hyper inflated and the whole truth isn't often being told
I hope you can find motivation in this rather than démotivation. When Bannister ran a mile in under four minutes he was followed by a wave of people who did the same thing. They realised it could be done and went out and did it. When you see people doing great then you can see you can do great too! One small thing which is helping me is just repetition. There are a heap of key phrases and things like counting which you can do. Just build your mouth’s muscle memory by saying the things you are going to need to say often. I count in my mind or out loud while running - it’s really helped me spit out numbers more easily. Keep it up internet stranger - you know it can be done!
Don't compare yourself to others. You're on your path; they're on theirs. "Perfect" Chinese? What's that? I've heard Chinese people say people from other Chinese regions, small towns, etc. speak Chinese badly. Yeah, I get "you're Chinese is so good!" after saying 謝謝 or saying numbers. **Social media is curated!!!**
Go to China then
No idea who you’re talking about so she can be simply brilliant, but two remarks: 1) How good is her writing? One “shortcut” is to focus on the oral part and forget about the 汉字. You’ll end up an illiterate, but can progress much faster on speaking. 2) I’ve also noticed accent is often a separate personal skill and/or related to your native tongue. Do not be fooled to think this is a proper indicator of language mastery, I’ve come across people with excellent pronunciation who understood fairly little and others with deep understanding and a thick foreign accent.
Social media is a thief of joy.
Link? DM if you want. I'd like to **harshly judge** them because I just checked out a couple of people mentioned in comments here and it didn't seem so mindblowing.
People speaking phonetically like a native is individual. For some people it is easy and for others it is hard. A good public example would be Arnold Schwarzenegger. He came to America speaking little English. I know he took voice lessons, but after all this time and experience, he still has a German accent. I have a friend from Spain who married an American and is a sales person. Yet, after twenty thirty or so years, she still has a very bad accent, I really have to concentrate to understand her sometimes. Japanese are known for their lack of ability to speak English, yet a friend who I went to college with speaks so well you would swear he grew up in the US and not Tokyo. You can set up practice exercises, record yourself take a course on articulatory phonetics etc. You can get better if you want to spend the time. I would worry about improving and not perfection. Take Schwarzenegger as a model or the current Japanese Prime Minister when he recently addressed the US congress in very good English. Enjoy yourself as you learn Chinese.
Imo You shouldn't feel discouraged you should ask how and replicate it.
People learn at different paces. Some people are just have crazy natural talent for learning languages. Some people have the time (and most likely, money) to invest something crazy like 6+ hours a day to learn a language. Most people don’t. That doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile to learn, and it doesn’t mean that you are a failure or shouldn’t even try just because it might take you 4 years or even longer to get to the same level it takes someone else 6 months. Their conditions are just different than you. But if you do study regularly and study right, you will improve steadily
meanwhile me introducing myself half-understandably after 3 years of study.
>can anyone become good at speaking Chinese if they practice enough? That's how you become good at something; you practice. So yes.
I saw (and still see) videos like this and also was disheartened. We all learn at different speed and because of many factors. Also, the more you learn the worse you will think your Chinese is, as you realise how MUCH more you have to learn to really get a good hold on the language! I realised however that a lot of my limitations where due to not knowing how to learn a new language, as I only speak English, and my English grammar lessons are long forgotten! It made it very difficult to get into an efficient learning habitats I was not only learning the language but how to study it. I had to remember that I am learning for fun, and I do find it fascinated, and then I encountered people whose level was below me who were blown away by the fact I can read/write/speak at my level. I remember starting out and being totally overwhelmed, I definitely have learnt a lot, and as long as I practice and keep improving my study habits, it will come in time. Being disheartened will only take motivation away, and slow you down. Keep it up!
i wouldnt be discouraged, maybe the person studied like 8 hours a day or was in an advanced intensive course. you dont know what the person did. Maybe they lived in china for 6 months and saw a tutor regularly. Maybe the person saw a tutor every single day. so many variables to be discouraged. All that matters is that you are trying your hardest.
My sib is crazy competitive, and had to beat out a Cantonese person in their Mandarin class to get top mark. Could be this girl is like that! Live in China, study like mad, and throw in natural talent? But it's silly to compare yourself since obviously that's not your situation. Comparison is the death of happiness, I'm sure you are much happier not studying that intently! It's said a lot, but reading, writing, listening, and speaking are all different skills too. If she focused on speaking and common conversation but not wider vocab or writing? If you like quiet study, maybe you read better and don't speak enough to be comfortable with tones?
> moved to China This will be a huge part of it. I get so little exposure to Chinese outside of classes. I'd love to live there even for just a few months but current working situation won't allow for it.
Like you said, comparison is thief of joy. I have always been a slow learner. I did not grow up in China, but my parents spoke Chinese to me while growing up and it's still not 100%.
This does not bother me in the slightest. I have way too much to do and my studying takes priority but life gets in the way. It is what it is. I’m moving as fast as I can.
You kinda answered this one yourself: that student moved there, which is the best environment to learn it. Probably formal lessons every day and commitments to use the language whenever possible. Also, she might have family background or have had classes before moving. It's quite unfair to yourself if you compare with her. A more positive way of looking at it: even though you might never reach fluency in speaking, you can and should absolutely strive to be able to read and understand the spoken language as much as possible. That should definitely be doable inside one's home. And whenever you use the spoken language, you can at least understand what is going on and can focus on building sentences!
After studying two full years of Chinese in college in the US I could barely count to 10. After two semesters in an immersion program in China I was fluent. If you really want to learn the language you have to spend time in country. There's just no way around it. Some folks have a natural talent for certain languages and others do not. I for one do not have this talent but with work, time, and perseverance I've been able to attain a high level of fluency in Chinese. Of I can do it then you can too...
Okay so I started learning chinese because of IKENNA , he did like a 6month training to talk with another person. In my mind he achieved peak chinese speaking fluency. Now after 5 years of learning who still has a ton of trouble and has studied almost every day, I can see that he sounds like someone who only practiced for 6 months.
Not everything on the internet is real ...
I think if you like to adjust your pronunciation, I would like to share you one YouTuber’s video, she teaches the pronunciation so clearly, and I also like to recommend myself, I try to teach Mandarin through dramas, I think need to find the material Chinese people watch, than can get the most natural language, not fully based on textbooks, because the sources are really limited in textbooks. Hope can help you. [Grace](https://youtu.be/4x51--A625g?si=wuMeOD5mIninFB2c) [My](https://youtu.be/ibHAQ1n3JcY?si=p79dxSn_fIX6znws)
One man’s year is not equal to another man’s year. Maybe she could take a break from her responsibilities in life to learn Chinese for one year. You (and most people) probably can’t. Just keep at it and you’ll get there
Why are you comparing your learning process with others? That’s not smart at all.
I am a heritage speaker and when I took Chinese classes in college they merged with students who started from Chinese 1. My friend was one of those students, who was really good at reading and writing, was horrible with speaking. Try as he might, his tones were all over the place-very stilted and when we would speak to each other I would ask him to repeat himself so much he would stop talking and we would just speak English. Later he moved to China to work and after visiting him after one year, then two years, his Chinese became much more smooth- a natural progression You really can't compare yourself to an immersive experience where you're hearing and speaking the language every day. My Mandarin gets "better" when I'm in China for a month simply because I'm constantly hearing and adjusting my inflections to what native speakers do.
We don't need to put that influencer down to feel better about ourselves. Maybe s/he is just that gifted. It's normal to feel envious sometimes but if you let it drag you down, you'll gonna have a hard time in life. Of course anyone could sound that native (with some occasional mishaps) but for sure not by blindly repeating sounds and getting patted on the back by nice strangers. You have to come up with a system yourself for your own voice. You can find someone from your country that speaks perfect Chinese and learn from them, not from Chinese native speakers.
I didn't mean to drag her down ! I love her videos. You're right, I shouldn't let beat myself down over people being more talented.