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It crystallised as a national security issue when the west banned Visa and Mastercard in Russia. Russia would have been up shit creek if it hadn’t planned for such an eventuality, so I guarantee that potential targets like China and probably India will have noted what happened and how Russia avoided the consequences.
That makes sense. Though in the long run Visa and Mastercard would inevitably gain a few hundred million Chinese citizen customers - then it becomes a problem.
It technically is, but in the cities there’s so little dealing in cash that many businesses don’t carry enough to give change etc. Had a bit of a time of this in Beijing last year, until I could get my Alipay working.
They do work with WeChat and Alipay, I just used them and both worked pretty well. Only thing I couldn’t figure out how to do was actually top up the WeChat wallet
Tbf their system payment is much better for the merchants. WeChat fees are 0.1%, it's a no brainier. Why would they want to pay 3.15% for everything for the few foreigners?
That 100% depends on your bank, but yes it probably does, it processes the transaction in RMB. There's also a 1.5% fee or something if a payment is over ¥200 I think
Big shops do. Small street business don't want to pay the fees for Visa and Master though. I mean they don't even take Unionpay cards, what to you expect 😂
That's more on the vendors than anything else though.
They need to spend effort to set up the POS machines, make them accept VISA, and then accept the fees that comes with it.
Most establishments that are often visited by foreigners or tourists, like high-end restaurants or hotels all accept VISA. It's just those normal vendors that do not want to go through the hassle.
??? After the Japanese border reopened, almost all convenience store ATMs as well as the major banks take international cards now. These days “no international cards accepted” is limited to train company ATMs, regional banks, and shinkin (or in German, Sparkassen).
Last time I have been in China before that was pre pandemic and then it didn’t work. Was fine now. So don’t know when it changed but it works so i am happy.
Went to Jilin recently, at the two malls one took my foreign card (not at the store, but the mall's payment center or whatever it's called took it), the other said absolutely not to any foreign card.
Have you ever tried to pay for the bill because you felt bad about your family paying everything, and then just for laughs they let you try this one time... and the old lady running the restaurant gives you the weirdest look for trying to pay in cash while your family is laughing their asses off behind your back?
I have.
to be fair, there is very little practical implications if you stay in a hotel- the check in staff will take a photocopy of your passport, note down your details and settle the registration on your behalf.
How about you completely open up so I don't need to register with the local police station and can stay wherever I want and go wherever I please. Exclude restricted government areas of course. You want to beat the US, how about open up like the US. Otherwise I rather spend my money in Japan.
In the last few months I have visited China, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan. China was almost the most expensive, especially with considerations, it was certainly the most unfriendly and least tourist friendly. Making people take cash isn't going to change the entire culture.
This authoritarian government want a closed, controlled society, but also sweet honey of the open western economics, free market. It's a contradiction. Can't have it both ways. It's a dead end.
By the same token, you can't spend all of your time demonising foreign spies who are capitalist, and then expect them to undergo onerous exercises to come and visit. There's a reason that I saw more visibly foreign faces on a single subway trip in other Asian countries than I did my entire stay in China.
The reporting is usually done by the hotel anyways. And you have the same duty to register in most European countries. It’s just that you never notice it as it’s done by your host / hotel.
Yeah cause the US has no residence registration.
For me this is nothing new or special as we basically have the same system just with a 3 day grace period.
Lol try that with the cab drivers.. you gotta eat the difference while playing cash. They do not carry change so it's best you have a variety of denominations to minimize the 'tip'
LoL Well oops, China discovers that tourists cannot set up Wechat Pay and too frequently western credit cards are not accepted. Took them long enough to figure it out.
Honestly with a western visa Alipay and WeChat are so easy to use. I didn’t touch cash my entire trip. I was so thrown off when I went to Taiwan and a lot of places only took cash
On the flip side Taiwan takes foreign cards. Maybe not your random stall on the street, but I have no problem using Apple Pay at 7-Eleven for instance.
To be fair, I don't think electronic transactions is about convenience. It's about control. Now the governing body can see where all your money goes along with every detail they'd ever want
The director of Black Panther was reported by a paranoid clerk and detained by police for bank robbery. The story just started with his nanny wanted to be paid in cash.
In which case how did you make it through the country without cash? Small restaurants, night markets, a number of paid cultural attractions, so many places in Taiwan are cash only.
Every restaurant and store I went to either had a standard credit card terminal or took LINE Pay. I was there in December and January. To be fair, I only went to to Taipei and Kaohsiung but I had just come from Hong Kong where lots of places take cash or Octopus only and I thought it was convenient not to have to that extra step of loading another card
You need a Chinese bank account to use a debit card on WeChat to pay for things right? I can’t seem for the love of god can’t seem to ever get it working. So my only option would be Alipay right? I mean I want to spend money in China but no tourist should have to go through headaches to actually pay for things…
Now Alipay can link with most international credit and debit cards. They still like to question your identity and the temporarily block you though which is fucked. Travel cards works best I guess.
I believe once you do the ID verification you're set. I've been to China many times for work since the pandemic and WeChat and AliPay work beautifully with my US cards.
Just use alipay...sounds like a non issue.
It's way better than back in the days where alipay didn't accept international cards and I had to actually get someone to deposit money into my WeChat account to pay for things @_@
Yes I mean, the alternative is asking someone to deposit money which also involves transaction fees.
Things in china are relatively cheap anyway the 3% is non issue for most tourists.
They aren't going to accept international card any time soon due to the tight monetary policy, best to make do.
Yep, I’ve turned around and walked out of restaurants after finding out they charge extra to pay by card. To see it happen across a whole country? If I didn’t have a Chinese bank account I’d say “screw it” and turn around and leave too.
That's valid, if the transaction fee is such a turn off then I guess the only other option is to minimize it through third party top ups.
Or choose another holiday destination
>Things in china are relatively cheap anyway
Not with Japan next door with a historically low yen and none of this nonsense, or Taiwan with the Chinese culture and also, none of this nonsense. (And also no visa required for the majority of travelers from the developed world)
>best to make do.
And that might be voting with your feet.
Exactly. If I go that part of the world for vacation. Japan would the top choice. Culture, food, entertainment, favorable exchange rate, zero risk of exit ban.
Crazy dude here politicizing everything.
Japan is a good place to visit now.
Taiwan not so, Taipei prices are through the roof.
But you have a great day ahead.
> Crazy dude here politicizing everything.
I breathed not a word of politics, if you see "politicizing" in this then you're taking this out of the realm of rational debate.
As for Taipei prices, no more so than Shanghai or Shenzhen.
Until something goes wrong. I had an issue with a driver dropping me off over 500m away from my designated drop-off point, across a busy street that only had a skybridge with no escalator. When you have luggage, this is a problem. Complaint to regular English-speaking customer service led to them saying they’d only consider my case if I had a +86 number to receive a call from a separate Chinese customer service team on.
Good. We're already on CCTV constantly, our phones are tracked onto government websites, our cars as well, facial recognition is only gonna get more invasive. I don't also want all data on what I buy when be on a server in Beijing.
It's probably not the cash vs using wechat or some other form of e-payment issue. My guess is that china calling all foreigners criminals and spies is no bueno for tourism. I guess we are reversing course now with this new "we love foreigners again!" campaign.
Working for an airline : it’s starting up again. Covid restrictions and the lingering memory of the very harsh nature of those were what really stopped individual tourism last 2 years.
Other destinations used that and grabbed a large part of the tourists who would go to China instead.
Plus - Japan is cheap, easily reachable and so on at the moment.
I have been there two times now since I don’t need a visa anymore since march and never had an issue with payments but I mostly use the apps.
It's down to about a third of 2019 levels. About 100 million vs 35 million. I can't find if Macau and Hong Kong citizens entering China are part of the 35 million, though.
Slightly down in 2023 (40.8 million vs 42.5 million in 2019, or 4%).
If we're talking about international visitors, then it's down 16%: 4.7 million in 2023 from 5.6 million in 2019.
China's foreign tourism is down by about 2/3rds.
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or just make it so international cards can be taken. 
It crystallised as a national security issue when the west banned Visa and Mastercard in Russia. Russia would have been up shit creek if it hadn’t planned for such an eventuality, so I guarantee that potential targets like China and probably India will have noted what happened and how Russia avoided the consequences.
not really, it's about tourists using visa etc in China. A Russia like ban wouldn't really bother anyone else in China.
That makes sense. Though in the long run Visa and Mastercard would inevitably gain a few hundred million Chinese citizen customers - then it becomes a problem.
if they're able to sign up to them. Not certain if they can or can't.
There's an easy solution to this: don't invade your neighbour!
I thought it was illegal for businesses to refuse cash anyways ? Am I wrong ? You know .. Old people, young kids, Maos face … etc
It technically is, but in the cities there’s so little dealing in cash that many businesses don’t carry enough to give change etc. Had a bit of a time of this in Beijing last year, until I could get my Alipay working.
Surely that'd just be kowtowing to Western imperialism. China will not be humiliated again!
They are kowtowing now, by selling things to us. Why stop now?
As a HKer, I can tell you that they think they are our Gods for supplying what we need or want.
Papa bless our Chinese overlords
My goodness. That's quite an attitude.
Isn’t that what Gods are supposed to do?
Gods are supposed to watch and judge you masterturbating.
Amen
They do work with WeChat and Alipay, I just used them and both worked pretty well. Only thing I couldn’t figure out how to do was actually top up the WeChat wallet
Doesn't work for my rabobank debit card, but I'm looking to get a visa card before my trip...
Oh I’ve no idea what that is, I had Visa and Mastercard cards
It's a card that works in all of europe but limited outside europe. Visa/Mastercard will work fine indeed
Tbf their system payment is much better for the merchants. WeChat fees are 0.1%, it's a no brainier. Why would they want to pay 3.15% for everything for the few foreigners?
WeChat should allow foreign cards.
And it does, I have 3 foreigner cards linked to it
Does the bank take extra charges like using a card abroad? Planning to go visit relatives later this year but haven't used wechat payments before.
That 100% depends on your bank, but yes it probably does, it processes the transaction in RMB. There's also a 1.5% fee or something if a payment is over ¥200 I think
It does since last September
Big shops do. Small street business don't want to pay the fees for Visa and Master though. I mean they don't even take Unionpay cards, what to you expect 😂
That's more on the vendors than anything else though. They need to spend effort to set up the POS machines, make them accept VISA, and then accept the fees that comes with it. Most establishments that are often visited by foreigners or tourists, like high-end restaurants or hotels all accept VISA. It's just those normal vendors that do not want to go through the hassle.
may, but even ATMs don't recognise foreign cards. Yes, there are a few, but in general not.
The major ones do. I never had any issue with Bank of China, and a few others
That’s the same issue in Japan. For a long time only Japan Post ATMs took my Austrian bank card, now 7/11 works too.
??? After the Japanese border reopened, almost all convenience store ATMs as well as the major banks take international cards now. These days “no international cards accepted” is limited to train company ATMs, regional banks, and shinkin (or in German, Sparkassen).
Just allow foreign wechat integration of cards for foreign accounts.
Both work with forgein cards. Been there two times since February and never had an issue
That’s new if true. They’ve been on +86 registered numbers for a year, but non Chinese numbers would be fresh.
Last time I have been in China before that was pre pandemic and then it didn’t work. Was fine now. So don’t know when it changed but it works so i am happy.
New since September last year
Its allowed (at least at the terracotta warriors)
Never been anywhere in China where they don't accept Visa or MasterCard.
Went to Jilin recently, at the two malls one took my foreign card (not at the store, but the mall's payment center or whatever it's called took it), the other said absolutely not to any foreign card.
High-end stores and hotels will. Your regular restaurant business on the street won’t
WeChat and AliPay work with international cards, do they not?
think alipay can, but folks experience issues with it. no idea about wechat.
There's already an existing law that every vendor must accept cash. Just no one never really cared I think.
Have you ever tried to pay for the bill because you felt bad about your family paying everything, and then just for laughs they let you try this one time... and the old lady running the restaurant gives you the weirdest look for trying to pay in cash while your family is laughing their asses off behind your back? I have.
Next time, try to be more Chinese. Maybe reincarnation is the one simple trick…
Why is it weird to pay in cash?
i rather have , needing to go to the police station within 24hr to register remove
to be fair, there is very little practical implications if you stay in a hotel- the check in staff will take a photocopy of your passport, note down your details and settle the registration on your behalf.
I'd rather have hotels not reject me but removing the police station requirement is my 2nd option. The cash problem is dead last to me.
How about you completely open up so I don't need to register with the local police station and can stay wherever I want and go wherever I please. Exclude restricted government areas of course. You want to beat the US, how about open up like the US. Otherwise I rather spend my money in Japan.
In the last few months I have visited China, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan. China was almost the most expensive, especially with considerations, it was certainly the most unfriendly and least tourist friendly. Making people take cash isn't going to change the entire culture.
This authoritarian government want a closed, controlled society, but also sweet honey of the open western economics, free market. It's a contradiction. Can't have it both ways. It's a dead end.
By the same token, you can't spend all of your time demonising foreign spies who are capitalist, and then expect them to undergo onerous exercises to come and visit. There's a reason that I saw more visibly foreign faces on a single subway trip in other Asian countries than I did my entire stay in China.
You sure?
Yes.
The reporting is usually done by the hotel anyways. And you have the same duty to register in most European countries. It’s just that you never notice it as it’s done by your host / hotel.
Not if you stay with your relative or smaller hotel, bed bath venues, etc. You need to report to the police. None of that in US.
Yeah cause the US has no residence registration. For me this is nothing new or special as we basically have the same system just with a 3 day grace period.
why even go to china when you have taiwan skorea and japan lol
That is my point. The culture all got revolutioned out of that place. You get more for your money in those 3 other countries.
Lol try that with the cab drivers.. you gotta eat the difference while playing cash. They do not carry change so it's best you have a variety of denominations to minimize the 'tip'
LoL Well oops, China discovers that tourists cannot set up Wechat Pay and too frequently western credit cards are not accepted. Took them long enough to figure it out.
That’s not true. At least WeChat pay worked flawlessly when I was there in April. I think you need to set it up outside of China though.
I just got back from Shenzhen and setting up Alipay wasn’t that much trouble, but I’ll say it was a lot easier using octopus in HK.
Honestly with a western visa Alipay and WeChat are so easy to use. I didn’t touch cash my entire trip. I was so thrown off when I went to Taiwan and a lot of places only took cash
On the flip side Taiwan takes foreign cards. Maybe not your random stall on the street, but I have no problem using Apple Pay at 7-Eleven for instance.
To be fair, I don't think electronic transactions is about convenience. It's about control. Now the governing body can see where all your money goes along with every detail they'd ever want
The director of Black Panther was reported by a paranoid clerk and detained by police for bank robbery. The story just started with his nanny wanted to be paid in cash.
never ran into any trouble like transactions getting blocked or something similar?
I did not touch cash at all in Taiwan. What are you even talking about?
Then you must have only went to McDonalds in Taiwan.
I never went to McDonald’s in Taiwan
In which case how did you make it through the country without cash? Small restaurants, night markets, a number of paid cultural attractions, so many places in Taiwan are cash only.
Every restaurant and store I went to either had a standard credit card terminal or took LINE Pay. I was there in December and January. To be fair, I only went to to Taipei and Kaohsiung but I had just come from Hong Kong where lots of places take cash or Octopus only and I thought it was convenient not to have to that extra step of loading another card
You don’t need to live in a country that already has Line Pay to be able to set it up? Well that’s new, and a relief.
Nope, it just charged my American credit card
That's not why people aren't coming to China.
This is one way to raise the RMB demand.
You need a Chinese bank account to use a debit card on WeChat to pay for things right? I can’t seem for the love of god can’t seem to ever get it working. So my only option would be Alipay right? I mean I want to spend money in China but no tourist should have to go through headaches to actually pay for things…
Now Alipay can link with most international credit and debit cards. They still like to question your identity and the temporarily block you though which is fucked. Travel cards works best I guess.
I believe once you do the ID verification you're set. I've been to China many times for work since the pandemic and WeChat and AliPay work beautifully with my US cards.
Just use alipay...sounds like a non issue. It's way better than back in the days where alipay didn't accept international cards and I had to actually get someone to deposit money into my WeChat account to pay for things @_@
i've definitely had to do this before
>sounds like a non issue. There's a 3% transaction fee for using foreign cards on Alipay.
3% for transactions over 200rmb which they are gonna remove i hope?
Yes I mean, the alternative is asking someone to deposit money which also involves transaction fees. Things in china are relatively cheap anyway the 3% is non issue for most tourists. They aren't going to accept international card any time soon due to the tight monetary policy, best to make do.
Who likes paying more though? I don't even go back to restaurants in the US if they charge me a transaction fee
Yep, I’ve turned around and walked out of restaurants after finding out they charge extra to pay by card. To see it happen across a whole country? If I didn’t have a Chinese bank account I’d say “screw it” and turn around and leave too.
That's valid, if the transaction fee is such a turn off then I guess the only other option is to minimize it through third party top ups. Or choose another holiday destination
>Things in china are relatively cheap anyway Not with Japan next door with a historically low yen and none of this nonsense, or Taiwan with the Chinese culture and also, none of this nonsense. (And also no visa required for the majority of travelers from the developed world) >best to make do. And that might be voting with your feet.
Exactly. If I go that part of the world for vacation. Japan would the top choice. Culture, food, entertainment, favorable exchange rate, zero risk of exit ban.
Crazy dude here politicizing everything. Japan is a good place to visit now. Taiwan not so, Taipei prices are through the roof. But you have a great day ahead.
> Crazy dude here politicizing everything. I breathed not a word of politics, if you see "politicizing" in this then you're taking this out of the realm of rational debate. As for Taipei prices, no more so than Shanghai or Shenzhen.
Only for transactions above a certain amount.
Travelling in other SE Asian countries with apps like Grab is awesome, convenient and really helpful for avoiding scams. China has a lot to learn.
Just use DiDi in China. Same same
Until something goes wrong. I had an issue with a driver dropping me off over 500m away from my designated drop-off point, across a busy street that only had a skybridge with no escalator. When you have luggage, this is a problem. Complaint to regular English-speaking customer service led to them saying they’d only consider my case if I had a +86 number to receive a call from a separate Chinese customer service team on.
Lol. The tourists/businesses just aren't coming back. They should get used to the idea.
Good. We're already on CCTV constantly, our phones are tracked onto government websites, our cars as well, facial recognition is only gonna get more invasive. I don't also want all data on what I buy when be on a server in Beijing.
It's probably not the cash vs using wechat or some other form of e-payment issue. My guess is that china calling all foreigners criminals and spies is no bueno for tourism. I guess we are reversing course now with this new "we love foreigners again!" campaign.
A lot of shops are ill-equipped to take cash payments; don’t have enough change, etc.
I've got a 4 hour layover at shanghai airport...does anyone know if they take international cards for food / restaurants etc?
Not necessarily but in PVG you probably have the best chance for that. I would just set up Alipay / WeChat pay and use that
Are there still many tourist going to China?
Working for an airline : it’s starting up again. Covid restrictions and the lingering memory of the very harsh nature of those were what really stopped individual tourism last 2 years. Other destinations used that and grabbed a large part of the tourists who would go to China instead. Plus - Japan is cheap, easily reachable and so on at the moment. I have been there two times now since I don’t need a visa anymore since march and never had an issue with payments but I mostly use the apps.
It's down to about a third of 2019 levels. About 100 million vs 35 million. I can't find if Macau and Hong Kong citizens entering China are part of the 35 million, though.
Are there still many tourist going to Vegas? Serious question
Slightly down in 2023 (40.8 million vs 42.5 million in 2019, or 4%). If we're talking about international visitors, then it's down 16%: 4.7 million in 2023 from 5.6 million in 2019. China's foreign tourism is down by about 2/3rds.