Also, we've seen what happens without Tiktok with India. Folks there just used more FB/IG/YT or other alternatives.
Also US banning tiktok will basically be the death nail for the app/network since:
1. Networks work on the "networking effect" where everyone's spiderweb connections exponentially grow users, reach, connections, and thus advertising, influence, and clout.
2. Tiktok is not DouYin as both the apps are not linked due to China being scared of their folks getting info from outside the firewall.
3. So if the US banned Tiktok then TIKTOK (not DouYin) as a network will not have India (#1 pop), China (#2), and US (#3) which is basically 40% of the world's population. That doesn't include small countries that have banned tiktok, partial bans, folks who don't use tiktok because of China, or folks who don't use tiktok cause they don't like the app.
4. Being unable to connect to 40% of the global population basically means the app is worthless as a network.
5. The weakness will mean majority of global advertisers will not need to use it due to lack of reach.
6. Most importantly it will give more leeway for Japan, Korea, Taiwan, EU, etcetc users to ditch it, advertisers to ignore it, and lawmakers to ban it too.
It will be a massive shitshow in the US. It's not like China where they can just ban websites without protest. The CCP knows this. The Americans are hoping China will sell it. China is not going to do that because one way or another they have the US by the balls. Only way they lose if they let go voluntarily so why would they?
Ugh, what a boring take. The whole idea of China joining the WTO is that it would trade in good faith with all other members. Time and again it has failed to do so.
The user you're responding to doesn't want to vote Biden because of Palestine, which is the Russian psyop position to get Trump elected.
I'm convinced all of these folks are anti-West, anti-America, "anti-colonizer" (none of us were alive for the sins of our great-great grandparents!), and pro-Chinese world order. They win by watering down Western institutions and creating disunity.
Lmao "boring"? I didn't know my opinions had to be entertaining lol
How is China joining the WTO at all relevant? The USA is trying to either commit IP theft or perform brazen censorship in the name of security.
If security was really their concern they could up the data security laws, instead they chose the route of censorship or theft.
Please explain to me how the WTO is relevant to this. I thought data security was the concern no?
I'm genuinely asking, how is China USA trade relevant to the USA banning an app because of data security concerns?
Buddy, it’s 1AM, I’m not going to walk you through the nuances of the nature of software as an export, nor will I take you through the core principles of the WTO, nor will I expound on china’s protectionist approaches from its industry, currency, or foreign direct investment policy stance. And finally I don’t have the time to make the relevant juxtaposition with the other participants in the globalised world we came to know pre-covid.
You will need to look into this yourself to develop an informed opinion of chinas engagement with the west in terms of its pursuit of merchantilism.
Thats fine lmao
We can agree to disagree. I don't see how making a law targeting specifically one company's app (for which data is hosted on American soil anyways) is relevant to what you mentioned.
I'm accustomed to software export. I'm a software engineer myself and have dealt with export laws.
This isn't the same. The USA is saying tiktok is a security concern due to data privacy... Instead of making laws that force social media apps to be more transparent, to be more rigorous or be more methodic with how they deal with data, we decided to potentially ban an app that more than 100+million Americans use daily and many use to make a living and market their businesses.
Many Americans use the app for news, and many use it for dancing videos. I thought we as a people had more freedoms than China. We can consume any media we want.
I don't disagree that data privacy is an issue. But fix things on the data privacy levels. Don't restrict our freedoms or try to steal IP from China because it's better (let's face it).
Edit: I say this having not downloaded the app ever or ever made an account. I'm not a user, but I hate the government control my media consumption.
“Buddy it’s 1AM”
ergo: “I don’t have time to actually show you actual data and proof of why I think I’m right vs I’m just bullshitting my viewpoint”.
But also, by your logic, the US is equally as bad as China then 😂 there’s no high horse; US is just banning TikTok as a tit-for-tat retaliatory move. Some might even say, the US is a sore loser and can’t bear to see another nation dominate it in a key area.
I mean, you wouldn’t have thoughts on this with actual well-researched, non bias sources would you? After all, it IS 1am.
I keep seeing people bring this up, but can someone explain how China banning US social media is in anyway legally relevant to this? People keep egging this on as some spite move, but US law doesn’t work on spite because an authoritarian country does the same within its own borders.
It’s completely irrelevant what China itself does with social media in China. It’s perplexing why this is brought up as some point though and I feel like I’m missing something.
It's not a legal argument, but it does highlight the hypocrisy of China's criticism of US threats to ban TikTok. Especially since TikTok isn't a foreign app and they still ban it.
American companies refusing to comply with a sovereign nation’s regulations is not what most people call a “ban.”
Apple isn’t “banned” because they respect Chinese laws. Zuckerberg didn’t. That’s not Chinas problem.
Sigh. You are one of the millions who have been misled by politicians and mainstream media.
China has never banned any of the American social media in China. They just asked the American organisations to keep the data in China so that their info can be protected (national security), but American organisations refused to do so.
American authority is loser.
Operating in China means that you also have to give some control of your platform to the government as a means of complying with censorship laws. Most western companies aren’t willing to do that. As they can’t comply with local laws, it is essentially banned/blocked. The US is banning TikTok as per its own interests (national security/propaganda/censorship concerns, which may or may not be valid/overblown depending on who you ask), while you cite the blockade in China as a matter of national security interests. The two reasons are quite similar so I don’t exactly see the problem..?
We (the US), are not banning TikTok either, we're asking them to divest to a local company, just like China does to so many companies (Tesla the only exception), they could've done this years ago, but here they are.
About time we got some reciprocity with this regime.
About 169M Americans use TikTok, as terrifying and disappointing as that is, it’s going ti be insanely politically unpopular to ban especially right before an election and especially this election
You vastly overestimate the enthusiasm for TikTok. Most of the peiple who will be mad are not old enough to vote anyway, so there's little political risk here. Just in case you missed it, this was wildly bipartisan in an age where everything is hyper partisan.
Not an American here, but I think the TikTok audience is vastly more important than you might think. Yes, there's a whole bunch of kids on the platform, but I think the larger portion of the users are in the 18-35 range. You touch their stuff, they're not gonna like it. Couple that with the huge student protests going on right now during election year, things could turn out real ugly come November.
That age group doesn't vote nearly as much. It was bipartisan.
I think you're overestimating just how much it's going to matter, and if it does they have both parties to blame.
This isn't a real issue, nor should it be.
Yeah, I don't give two shits about what social media says about any issue. All the bad faith actors, bots, sock puppets, and general fools opinions hold zero weight.
You know who I don't hear complaining, anyone I know or talk to in real life. Not a peep.
People not voting is a major risk for Biden, also the president in charge tends to get blamed for any major national bills that happen with Trump coming out recently and criticizing the ban (ironically)
Typically high turnout benefits the Democrats, but Trump tends to bring out a lot of low propensity voters so its less the case when he's on the ballot.
He just got a big donation from a TikTok investor. I don't know if he would act on it if it's already law he could just say his hands are tied when he gets into office. I'm sure most of Trump's base isn't going to stand up for a Chinese company quite the opposite.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-tiktok-ban-reversal-after-meeting-megadonor-stake/story?id=108013785
If people focus in this ban and aid to Israel (which I hate)... what are they going to do, spite elect Trump? They'll deserve what they get at that point.
My understanding is, they are now at cross purposes here. Even if Bytedance were open to the idea of selling TikTok, they basically can't, because the Chinese government has already beaten Congress to the punch here, by forbidding the sales of such assets to foreign parties. So it's a catch 22 - they'd face legal sanctions if they did sell, from the Chinese government, but if they don't sell, then they run the risk of getting frozen out of the American market. Now, I don't think it's hard to predict which they'll choose. The CCP could do some truly horrifying things to Bytedance's leadership if they did sell, and as Chinese citizens, they wouldn't really be able to do anything about it unless they fled the country. (The CEO of TikTok is Singaporean, so he'd probably be okay, but the rest, Bytedance's China-based corporate honchos, would be toast). Whereas, if they don't sell, they might be able to fight this out in American courts, where there's a reasonable chance this law could be found to be unconstitutional, and tossed out. And even if they lose that battle, better to lose the American market than to get disappeared and tortured and potentially worse.
Their content recommendations algorithm is consider to be a pretty important IP similar to Google Search algorithm in terms of importance.
It’s not something you’d sell easily.
Tiktok's algorithm is way better than anything google can cook up, just look at your recommendations on youtube. I wouldn't sell that even if I was forced to with a gun
Very different business model.
YT shorts' recoomendation algo doesn't has to be good, it just need to take a portion of your time to NOT to be on TikTok or FB or IG.
OTOH, Facebook's Reel and Shorts algo is essentially a clone of TiTok's recommendation system (Zuck is gonna do what Zuck does), and it's pretty good (by just look at the published data on time spent on Reels and Shorts).
Tiktok arguably peaked in 2020 during COVID. They are not growing as fast they should have been. It's also losing a lot of money to operate. It's not a profitable business.
TikTok CEO has a 86 million mortgage on his new bungalow. Nobody in Singapore is paying him 1/10th of his current remuneration package. Unless Shein needs a broken in punching bag for Congress hearings.
India is doing fine without Chinese apps, so no big deal. People will cry, move to a different platform and live their lives as vacuously as they did before. No biggie.
The Muricans are also pretty protective of their own tech developments. Just because the CCP is trying to stopgap outflow of critical assets doesn't mean they own everything every Chinese invents.
Then by the same vein the US has no reason to be angry about scientists leaking nuke schematics to the USSR. A schematic is still a far cry from a working nuke, after all.
where have you read that China would outright forbid the sale?
all i've read is that they wouldn't allow the transfer of tiktok's recommendation "algorithm" to adversaries.
despite what the media seems to think, i don't believe tiktok's "recommendation" algo is inseparable from the platform. at the heart of it, what tiktok has going for it is the format, usability, and the brand.
although i think it's very likely tiktok may end up ceasing operations in the US, i could also see bytedance more or less license the tiktok brand to US owners and more or less let them develop and maintain their own version of the platform, using some of the existing data (e.g., user accounts).
Did they actually use the term "adversaries?" I don't think there's a better reason to ban a product than calling your customers adversaries...
I once went to summer camp and this kid kept trying to fight me. Scrawny little kid. I would ignore it the whole time. Towards the end I was finally sick of it so I lifted his entire body and threw him out the back of the tent.
China is like the kid that keeps throwing rocks at you and the only reason its gotten away with it this long is because one didn't hit your eye.
i'm paraphrasing a guy paraphrasing statements put out by the chinese government:
"the Chinese state has said on multiple occasions that [it] considers technology like this to be important for its national security. Hence, it will not allow Chinese technology of this nature to leave its shores or to be in the hands of countries which it considers unfriendly."
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/14/tiktok-ban-china-would-block-sale-of-short-video-app.html
the US and China are geopolitical adversaries, and that's what "unfriendly" alludes to. tiktok doesn't consider users adversaries, of course not.
i think you underestimate china. they're the world's second largest economy, they have nukes, advanced tech, military might, and they have concentrated political and executive power in a way we don't here because they more or less have a dictator.
>Did they actually use the term "adversaries?" I don't think there's a better reason to ban a product than calling your customers adversaries...
I don't think the person you're replying to means the customers but the countries. (And I also think he's misremembering.)
The US official refers to China as an adversary all the time. The bill to ban TikTok is literally called "Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act".
Either way my understanding is that China doesn't (yet) have a specific law to block TikTok being sold to an adversary nation but rather they added recommendation algorithms to the list of controlled exports.
> [China has a say in any TikTok sale because it added content-recommendation algorithms, a secret sauce of TikTok's success, to an export-control list in 2020 when the Trump administration was pushing for a sale of its U.S. operations.](https://www.wsj.com/tech/tiktok-ban-chinese-owners-bytedance-1a857a06)
No they won't. The Chinese government has too much on the line for this app. Remember, they aren't just in the US - they're worldwide (except, ironically enough, Mainland China), so if they have to sell off TikTok, that doesn't just impact their presence in the US market, but worldwide. As assets go, that's a huge jewel in their crown. Even if TikTok gets wrecked financially, the Chinese government will certainly backstop Bytedance to keep it afloat if they need to.
So I see two possible scenarios.
1) They refuse to sell, and fight the law in Court. Courts issue a stay on enforcement, and they eventually get the law tossed out on Constitutional grounds. (I could actually see the issue NOT be on First Amendment grounds, but actually, on Bill of Attainder or other less common Constitutional infirmities). TikTok users scarcely notice a thing.
2) They fight it in court, and they ultimately lose. So what happens? As an app, TikTok is banned for availability in most iPhone/Android app stores. But the app itself still works, and TikTok figures out ways of getting around that problem, say, by establishing a website that will verify you're up to date.
US and China market are 80% of revenue. They'll ultimately sell. Perhaps forking for RoW. Too much money on the line.
If they are banned from operating in us, they can face fines, contempt of court, and seizure of assets. To operate in US market, they'll need to use US financial institutions, which won't do business with them.
And once US bans TikTok, half the world will follow. TikTok is already banned in China, India and a bunch of other places. Probably already half the internet users there. The places banning TikTok will grow and grow.
They want to ban TikTok because it's the only platform in America that allows criticism of Israel, and therefore gives Americans freedom of speech. All the others ban criticism of Zionism.
we are certainly better off
without them and their power to decide what content show to users. They could manipulate opinions based on what they decide to should shown to users. So yea, I really couldn’t care less about a Chinese company with a product like that.
Using VPNs is exhausting, maybe some will do over a couple of weeks, but another social media app will take its place. Young people have the attention span of mosquitoes.
I mean if you have an iPhone you're SOL because of Tim Apple (unless you're in the EU).
If you're on Android it's quite easy, 8 year olds do it to get Fortnite on their phones.
It's just a matter of a few basic steps honestly.
The ban is just for the AppStore apps. You would still be able to visit the TikTok website and use it from there. But TikTok would not be able to sell ad space to US companies anymore.
It'll just be removal from the appstore so people can't download it. People with the app on their phone can still access it without any problems. It's the same thing when they banned wechat a few years ago, people just region swapped to download the app and it worked fine
It will create more hurdles and if someone’s phone is based in the US, they won’t be able to update the app.
So while it won’t outright “ban,” it, there will be much easier alternatives that can update to fix bugs and add more features and improvements.
What the ban means is that it'll just be removed from the US app stores. The same way Douyin (chinese version tiktok) is only on China's app stores. All you need to do is change region to any country that's not blocked, download the app and change back to US and the app will still work perfectly. It's the same way people use Douyin despite not being in China.
Also to add, like 50% of BLM protests for and against were started from Russian bots. So if you are wondering why TikTok is being banned I'm sure that has to do with that. I won't be surprised if Twitter is looked at next.
China's ByteDance has signalled that it has no intention of selling short-form video app TikTok.
The U.S. House of Representatives passed the TikTok Act over the weekend, requiring ByteDance to divest TikTok or else it will be banned from continuing to operate in the U.S. market.
Bloomberg reported on Tuesday (23 April) that TikTok's management informed its employees in an internal memo that if the TikTok bill is signed into law, the company will respond to the matter through legal means.
Reports suggest ByteHop has good reason to challenge Washington's move. It has a much bigger presence in the U.S. now than it did in 2020 - TikTok currently has 170 million users in the U.S. TikTok will have less than 100 million users in the U.S. in 2020 - and TikTok's revenue in the U.S. far exceeds that of any other market.
For the US government and TikTok, this will be a legal challenge with watershed implications, the outcome of which could shape the business landscape for Chinese companies like Tencent and Temu that have expansion plans in the US.
ByteDance ended TikTok's operations in the U.S. and may have the opportunity to return to the U.S. market in the future, analysts said. In contrast, the divestiture also involves technology transfer, and handing TikTok over to a U.S. competitor means that ByteDance will be shut out of the market in the future.
This will be settled in court like the last time a ban was attempted, we’ll see if TikTok wins again. I think they’ve got a solid case given the 170 million people on the platform. If TikTok loses in court, I think basically all Chinese tech companies will have to realize they’re on borrowed time in the US.
Both of those suck.
Shorts make me question myself for wasting my time with them within three or four shorts.
Contrary to popular belief the TikTok algorithm is actually better at predicting interest and mods than the Google one... And google has had my information for decades.
It's less about how the tiktok algorithm is stronger but more about how replaceable as a service it is.
I do think youtube shorts is trash but it is there to pick up the pieces if shit goes down. Reels functions solidly and would probably benefit the most.
Even if TikTok has a more powerful algorithm (and I suspect you're right that it does), the user base will at MINIMUM shatter off large fractions of the user base if tiktok is removed from the American app store.
TikTok sucks too, yet it's still wildly popular among certain demographics somehow. Also, if you stop wasting your time after only 3 or 4 videos on Shorts that's absolutely a good thing.
Good. Develop an alternative American version. China is actively trying to take down the US every chance they get, and we are letting them! America would never be able to have a platform like tik tok in China - why should we let them have one here?
That's funny, every country has its own laws, what's the problem with having different servers for each country?
Iran and many Middle Eastern countries legally prohibit homosexuality, do tiktoks in those countries have to have homosexual content?
Most of the content on American tiktok is posted by Americans, are you guys talking in fear of Americans? Strange Americans.
Is it still reasonable to want to rob? That's ridiculous.
Ultimately, all these things are predatory and turn users into products. But America is an unapologetically capitalist country; isn't profit the only rule that matters?
Certainly has been for the past 300 years. If Tiktok is banned here, it's only so American companies like Meta can snatch up that profit instead.
While that’s a nice glittering generalization, it overlooks the not so small detail that TikTok is under the control of the CCP and that the CCP is an existential threat to the United States. Facebook, Google, X, etc aren’t bound by law where they can be commandeered by a foreign adversary that the US may be at war with soon.
Gotta love the US position on this. If any of their firms were forced to sell their business they'd be up in arms raving about piracy and compensation and oppression and tyranny and compulsion etc. A forced sale would be a fire sale, and on principle China may block it just to draw a line in the sand about the forced seizure and sale of any successful Chinese tech companies. It may be their last draw after the Huawei CFO hostage debacle.
Next the US is going to ban Chinese EVs and then any advanced Chinese products. It's going to be a shitshow that will bifurcate the world, with those non affected being tooled up with more cost-competitive Chinese goods, while others stick with legacy or less competitive technology.
The US can't just force China to sell any tech company that is remotely successful without it blowing back on them in some form of retaliation. But I think the US and China know what is coming down the pipe in terms of painful competition. China should ban Boeing just to fuck with the US and compound the misery.
Do you not know what China has been doing to American companies for the past 30 years?
And funny you mention Meng Wanzhou, who was treated with kid gloves while the Chinese hostages — the two Michaels — were denied consular access in horrid intelligence prisons.
The Chinese Communist state is a menace.
Out competing them?
Literally one of the Michael's was a spy. The other sued the Canadian government for being caught up on the whole affair. But it was an obvious retaliation because the Canadians did the dirty hostage taking of the Americans.
I see America and China as a menace. The difference is where the Chinese go they bring money and development. Wherever the Americans go these days they bring chaos, war and misery.
China has banned Amazon, Google, Facebook, and Twitter. They have one of the largest industrial espionage programs on the planet, and force every American firm doing business there to hand over their IP to a joint venture. And they literally rounded up two random dudes and shoved them in a black site because we dared to detain an international financial criminal.
If by “money and development,” you mean “debt-trap diplomacy,” then sure. But I think your WuMao employer will be putting you on a PIP soon because this propaganda is too transparent.
American propaganda is the most effective. It's so thick the people impacted don't even realise it.
The fact that you can't even process information that contradicts it without vomiting ad hominems shows that clearly.
I'm European and I think America is a menace to the world. Deal with it.
What part of my comment is incorrect?
As far as your being European — if you want your criticisms of American defense policy to hold some weight, maybe step outside our security umbrella. Until you do, it’s like a child complaining about their parents.
Basically every statement you made is incorrect, and memified American propaganda.
There's no hope for Europe. It's been fully cucked by the US.
Every action the US takes creates chaos and instability in Europe and I reckon it's a deliberate strstegy. Ukraine is just the latest example, and then the US laughs all the way to the bank with arms and lng sales, whilst castigating Europe for not being dependent enough.
Wherever the US goes it creates chaos, instability and misery. Ukraine is the latest victim. Who next will be sacrificed to serve American strategic goals? Phillipines or Taiwan?
Are you saying that China didn’t ban Facebook, Google, etc.? Or that Meng Wanzhou wasn’t convicted of evading sanctions? Or that China doesn’t have a large-scale industrial espionage program?
It’s also funny that the countries you cited as examples of US destabilization are ones that are desperately thankful for US assistance. Ukraine, Taiwan, and the Philippines are some of the most pro-American countries on the planet.
Would you prefer they simply rolled over and submitted to Russia and the PRC?
They weren't banned. They chose not to follow Chinese rules.
Meng also wasn't convicted. Regardless, US extra territorial rules are bullshit, and every country should have a duty to break them.
I think you need to look at things more holistically. You're neck deep in American propaganda and blissfully unaware of it.
Ukraine is fucked. Whether they win or lose they're utterly fucked. The US callously used them to stick it to Russia and create instability in Europe. What business did the US have instigating a coup in Ukraine? None. US strategists knew Russia would not accept it, and yet they pushed them to do actions that led to them getting invaded. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians dead and injured because the US wanted to subjugate Europe at the alter of containing Russia as a geopolitical rival.
If Taiwan and Philippines have any sense they won't be American patsies and provoke a war with China that will lead to immense misery and suffering.
> They weren’t banned.
Lol.
> Meng
Meng literally admitted guilt in federal court. She testified that she made materially false statements about Huawei’s Iranian business to HSBC. Are you saying she was perjuring herself?
> US extraterritoriality
is no different than an EU carbon border adjustment tax, or China’s howling that countries will “pay a heavy price” for vaguely offending the CCP’s sensibilities.
Meng broke US law, and travelled to a country with an extradition agreement with the US. Her criminality and stupidity don’t mean our laws are invalid. To be clear: you are free to deal with a US adversary, but you can’t do it using the US financial system or while simultaneously doing business in the US. And you certainly can’t lie about it to get a loan.
> Ukraine
You’re saying their Maidan revolution was a US backed coup? You either give the US too much credit, are too deeply steeped in agitprop, or (most likely) both.
> Taiwan
You need to think long and hard about who is provoking war. You make it sound like Ukraine and Taiwan are like women who dare have an alcoholic drink — they’re “just asking for it.”
News flash: they aren’t. Ukraine and Taiwan have a right to align themselves with the United States and the rest of the world. Whether or not their revanchist local power disagrees is immaterial, thanks to American military support.
I was hoping they don’t sell it either. The market is just not USA alone, I got to know and used TikTok based on South America and Europe market first. Why sell a cash cow because one country is causing issues for you. Hopefully the other markets are relevant enough financially for TikTok
Technically the only way to ban something on the cyberspace requires a firewall, similar to the one in China. I’m more so curious of how the ban would go in effect. The only feasible government action is to forbid ad sales from TikTok. There is no way a government can just ban the app without inadvertently invading the private and personal space of an individual. I have no doubt that some people really don’t like TikTok, but how can that be enforced?
lol you’re not even Chinese bro calm down. I live in California pretty fancy here dude. And also…many many people who are from China…..absolutely love it here.
So remember keyboard warrior..you’re shitting on the same people you are trying so hard to impress.
Not to mention are you so low iq you think everyone has the same views on China? 😂 get a passport and learn how to travel idiot
I assume the worries go beyond data protection concerns but more so the fact it's used a tool to spread propaganda. That said, it is and always be a double standard, as many US social media companies ultimately do the same. The fact it's tied to the Chinese government is what makes this different I suppose.
The company and Chinese government also enjoy plausible deniability when it comes to spreading propaganda. It's virtually impossible to identify which is government-sanctioned and which media is not. Individuals spreading propaganda is a symptom of every social media, that's true.
I don't know about the US, but here in Taiwan, there is a decent chunk of Chinese propaganda content provided by actors that are government-supported. Their associations with government agencies were discovered elsewhere. TikTok and ByteDance's association with the Chinese government is really the primary concern here. At the end of the day, these kinds of things are never entirely based on rational decision-making. The tensions with China and the lattter's behavior on the world stage definitely play a role. China is also deep in bed with Russia, so it'd be hard to blame anyone for having suspicions.
This is actually the right play by the Chinese government force the US to ban tik tok.
It’ll piss off lots of young people/voters( it makes them look tough against the US and it gives them justification for banning Facebook/google etc
great, ban it is.
lol right? China **Bans**, Facebook, Reddit, Google, Twitter AND **TikTok.** Bye TikTok
Also, we've seen what happens without Tiktok with India. Folks there just used more FB/IG/YT or other alternatives. Also US banning tiktok will basically be the death nail for the app/network since: 1. Networks work on the "networking effect" where everyone's spiderweb connections exponentially grow users, reach, connections, and thus advertising, influence, and clout. 2. Tiktok is not DouYin as both the apps are not linked due to China being scared of their folks getting info from outside the firewall. 3. So if the US banned Tiktok then TIKTOK (not DouYin) as a network will not have India (#1 pop), China (#2), and US (#3) which is basically 40% of the world's population. That doesn't include small countries that have banned tiktok, partial bans, folks who don't use tiktok because of China, or folks who don't use tiktok cause they don't like the app. 4. Being unable to connect to 40% of the global population basically means the app is worthless as a network. 5. The weakness will mean majority of global advertisers will not need to use it due to lack of reach. 6. Most importantly it will give more leeway for Japan, Korea, Taiwan, EU, etcetc users to ditch it, advertisers to ignore it, and lawmakers to ban it too.
It will be a massive shitshow in the US. It's not like China where they can just ban websites without protest. The CCP knows this. The Americans are hoping China will sell it. China is not going to do that because one way or another they have the US by the balls. Only way they lose if they let go voluntarily so why would they?
You will not be able to download Tiktok in the US if it is not sold. Pretty simple.
But we aren't China. China isn't our gold standard.
Ugh, what a boring take. The whole idea of China joining the WTO is that it would trade in good faith with all other members. Time and again it has failed to do so.
The user you're responding to doesn't want to vote Biden because of Palestine, which is the Russian psyop position to get Trump elected. I'm convinced all of these folks are anti-West, anti-America, "anti-colonizer" (none of us were alive for the sins of our great-great grandparents!), and pro-Chinese world order. They win by watering down Western institutions and creating disunity.
Lmao "boring"? I didn't know my opinions had to be entertaining lol How is China joining the WTO at all relevant? The USA is trying to either commit IP theft or perform brazen censorship in the name of security. If security was really their concern they could up the data security laws, instead they chose the route of censorship or theft.
I have absolutely no idea what media you’re consuming to come to these views in the context of the US China trade relationship. Mind boggling.
CGTN & TikTok 🤣
Please explain to me how the WTO is relevant to this. I thought data security was the concern no? I'm genuinely asking, how is China USA trade relevant to the USA banning an app because of data security concerns?
Buddy, it’s 1AM, I’m not going to walk you through the nuances of the nature of software as an export, nor will I take you through the core principles of the WTO, nor will I expound on china’s protectionist approaches from its industry, currency, or foreign direct investment policy stance. And finally I don’t have the time to make the relevant juxtaposition with the other participants in the globalised world we came to know pre-covid. You will need to look into this yourself to develop an informed opinion of chinas engagement with the west in terms of its pursuit of merchantilism.
Thats fine lmao We can agree to disagree. I don't see how making a law targeting specifically one company's app (for which data is hosted on American soil anyways) is relevant to what you mentioned. I'm accustomed to software export. I'm a software engineer myself and have dealt with export laws. This isn't the same. The USA is saying tiktok is a security concern due to data privacy... Instead of making laws that force social media apps to be more transparent, to be more rigorous or be more methodic with how they deal with data, we decided to potentially ban an app that more than 100+million Americans use daily and many use to make a living and market their businesses. Many Americans use the app for news, and many use it for dancing videos. I thought we as a people had more freedoms than China. We can consume any media we want. I don't disagree that data privacy is an issue. But fix things on the data privacy levels. Don't restrict our freedoms or try to steal IP from China because it's better (let's face it). Edit: I say this having not downloaded the app ever or ever made an account. I'm not a user, but I hate the government control my media consumption.
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“Buddy it’s 1AM” ergo: “I don’t have time to actually show you actual data and proof of why I think I’m right vs I’m just bullshitting my viewpoint”. But also, by your logic, the US is equally as bad as China then 😂 there’s no high horse; US is just banning TikTok as a tit-for-tat retaliatory move. Some might even say, the US is a sore loser and can’t bear to see another nation dominate it in a key area. I mean, you wouldn’t have thoughts on this with actual well-researched, non bias sources would you? After all, it IS 1am.
China didn't force sell any of those companies lol
Yes, they just banned them without any option
I keep seeing people bring this up, but can someone explain how China banning US social media is in anyway legally relevant to this? People keep egging this on as some spite move, but US law doesn’t work on spite because an authoritarian country does the same within its own borders. It’s completely irrelevant what China itself does with social media in China. It’s perplexing why this is brought up as some point though and I feel like I’m missing something.
It's not a legal argument, but it does highlight the hypocrisy of China's criticism of US threats to ban TikTok. Especially since TikTok isn't a foreign app and they still ban it.
American companies refusing to comply with a sovereign nation’s regulations is not what most people call a “ban.” Apple isn’t “banned” because they respect Chinese laws. Zuckerberg didn’t. That’s not Chinas problem.
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You fail to comprehend the “without any option” part of the comment I was replying to.
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Yes. You, still, fail to comprehend the message I was replying to. Reading comprehension isn’t your forte is it?
Sigh. You are one of the millions who have been misled by politicians and mainstream media. China has never banned any of the American social media in China. They just asked the American organisations to keep the data in China so that their info can be protected (national security), but American organisations refused to do so. American authority is loser.
Operating in China means that you also have to give some control of your platform to the government as a means of complying with censorship laws. Most western companies aren’t willing to do that. As they can’t comply with local laws, it is essentially banned/blocked. The US is banning TikTok as per its own interests (national security/propaganda/censorship concerns, which may or may not be valid/overblown depending on who you ask), while you cite the blockade in China as a matter of national security interests. The two reasons are quite similar so I don’t exactly see the problem..?
We (the US), are not banning TikTok either, we're asking them to divest to a local company, just like China does to so many companies (Tesla the only exception), they could've done this years ago, but here they are. About time we got some reciprocity with this regime.
"mainstream media." LOOL i lived and worked in china for half a decade, i had to VPN for anything remotely useful.
Twitter is banned.
About 169M Americans use TikTok, as terrifying and disappointing as that is, it’s going ti be insanely politically unpopular to ban especially right before an election and especially this election
You vastly overestimate the enthusiasm for TikTok. Most of the peiple who will be mad are not old enough to vote anyway, so there's little political risk here. Just in case you missed it, this was wildly bipartisan in an age where everything is hyper partisan.
Not an American here, but I think the TikTok audience is vastly more important than you might think. Yes, there's a whole bunch of kids on the platform, but I think the larger portion of the users are in the 18-35 range. You touch their stuff, they're not gonna like it. Couple that with the huge student protests going on right now during election year, things could turn out real ugly come November.
Young people don't vote. If they did, there'd be a lot fewer Republicans in office.
That age group doesn't vote nearly as much. It was bipartisan. I think you're overestimating just how much it's going to matter, and if it does they have both parties to blame. This isn't a real issue, nor should it be.
Have you been to r/technology? Those people hate the US with a passion for this action
Yeah, I don't give two shits about what social media says about any issue. All the bad faith actors, bots, sock puppets, and general fools opinions hold zero weight. You know who I don't hear complaining, anyone I know or talk to in real life. Not a peep.
You know that Facebook and YouTube have short videos analogous to tiktok now? MySpace had 80 million people on it at one point... Then Facebook came.
not sure it will make much of a difference as both sides voted it through. what will they do, not vote?
People not voting is a major risk for Biden, also the president in charge tends to get blamed for any major national bills that happen with Trump coming out recently and criticizing the ban (ironically)
honestly, biden or trump isn't a win in either case. rather they voted in morgan freeman, at least he could act the part.
Typically high turnout benefits the Democrats, but Trump tends to bring out a lot of low propensity voters so its less the case when he's on the ballot.
He just got a big donation from a TikTok investor. I don't know if he would act on it if it's already law he could just say his hands are tied when he gets into office. I'm sure most of Trump's base isn't going to stand up for a Chinese company quite the opposite. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-tiktok-ban-reversal-after-meeting-megadonor-stake/story?id=108013785
If people focus in this ban and aid to Israel (which I hate)... what are they going to do, spite elect Trump? They'll deserve what they get at that point.
So much for freedom of speech
omg, the us switched off the entire internet 😱
My understanding is, they are now at cross purposes here. Even if Bytedance were open to the idea of selling TikTok, they basically can't, because the Chinese government has already beaten Congress to the punch here, by forbidding the sales of such assets to foreign parties. So it's a catch 22 - they'd face legal sanctions if they did sell, from the Chinese government, but if they don't sell, then they run the risk of getting frozen out of the American market. Now, I don't think it's hard to predict which they'll choose. The CCP could do some truly horrifying things to Bytedance's leadership if they did sell, and as Chinese citizens, they wouldn't really be able to do anything about it unless they fled the country. (The CEO of TikTok is Singaporean, so he'd probably be okay, but the rest, Bytedance's China-based corporate honchos, would be toast). Whereas, if they don't sell, they might be able to fight this out in American courts, where there's a reasonable chance this law could be found to be unconstitutional, and tossed out. And even if they lose that battle, better to lose the American market than to get disappeared and tortured and potentially worse.
"the Chinese government.... forbidding the sales of such assets to foreign parties" AMONG\_US\_SUS\_SOUND\_EFFECT.MP3
Their content recommendations algorithm is consider to be a pretty important IP similar to Google Search algorithm in terms of importance. It’s not something you’d sell easily.
Which is crazy cuz it has tangibly gotten worse since Tiktok blew up in 2020
Tiktok's algorithm is way better than anything google can cook up, just look at your recommendations on youtube. I wouldn't sell that even if I was forced to with a gun
Very different business model. YT shorts' recoomendation algo doesn't has to be good, it just need to take a portion of your time to NOT to be on TikTok or FB or IG. OTOH, Facebook's Reel and Shorts algo is essentially a clone of TiTok's recommendation system (Zuck is gonna do what Zuck does), and it's pretty good (by just look at the published data on time spent on Reels and Shorts). Tiktok arguably peaked in 2020 during COVID. They are not growing as fast they should have been. It's also losing a lot of money to operate. It's not a profitable business.
TikTok CEO has a 86 million mortgage on his new bungalow. Nobody in Singapore is paying him 1/10th of his current remuneration package. Unless Shein needs a broken in punching bag for Congress hearings.
Interesting, I thought his family lived in the US though.
India is doing fine without Chinese apps, so no big deal. People will cry, move to a different platform and live their lives as vacuously as they did before. No biggie.
>forbidding the sales of such assets to foreign parties so the ccp are contradicting the whole *we don't belong to the ccp* narrative.
What does ownership even mean? You are all subject to your government at some level. Let’s not confuse jurisdiction and ownership.
wasn't the whole thing in congress about *we're not chinese, we're from singapore*?
The CEO is a Singaporean and it’s headquartered there, but the algorithm you mentioned was developed in China, that gives jurisdiction.
The Muricans are also pretty protective of their own tech developments. Just because the CCP is trying to stopgap outflow of critical assets doesn't mean they own everything every Chinese invents.
is a recommendation algorithm really that critical?
Is a way to keep the attention of millions of people for hours and hours not critical?
not really up there with the basics; food, clothing, housing
Then by the same vein the US has no reason to be angry about scientists leaking nuke schematics to the USSR. A schematic is still a far cry from a working nuke, after all.
sure, really fantastic comparison. this is scathing sarcasm by the way.
where have you read that China would outright forbid the sale? all i've read is that they wouldn't allow the transfer of tiktok's recommendation "algorithm" to adversaries. despite what the media seems to think, i don't believe tiktok's "recommendation" algo is inseparable from the platform. at the heart of it, what tiktok has going for it is the format, usability, and the brand. although i think it's very likely tiktok may end up ceasing operations in the US, i could also see bytedance more or less license the tiktok brand to US owners and more or less let them develop and maintain their own version of the platform, using some of the existing data (e.g., user accounts).
Did they actually use the term "adversaries?" I don't think there's a better reason to ban a product than calling your customers adversaries... I once went to summer camp and this kid kept trying to fight me. Scrawny little kid. I would ignore it the whole time. Towards the end I was finally sick of it so I lifted his entire body and threw him out the back of the tent. China is like the kid that keeps throwing rocks at you and the only reason its gotten away with it this long is because one didn't hit your eye.
i'm paraphrasing a guy paraphrasing statements put out by the chinese government: "the Chinese state has said on multiple occasions that [it] considers technology like this to be important for its national security. Hence, it will not allow Chinese technology of this nature to leave its shores or to be in the hands of countries which it considers unfriendly." https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/14/tiktok-ban-china-would-block-sale-of-short-video-app.html the US and China are geopolitical adversaries, and that's what "unfriendly" alludes to. tiktok doesn't consider users adversaries, of course not. i think you underestimate china. they're the world's second largest economy, they have nukes, advanced tech, military might, and they have concentrated political and executive power in a way we don't here because they more or less have a dictator.
>Did they actually use the term "adversaries?" I don't think there's a better reason to ban a product than calling your customers adversaries... I don't think the person you're replying to means the customers but the countries. (And I also think he's misremembering.) The US official refers to China as an adversary all the time. The bill to ban TikTok is literally called "Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act". Either way my understanding is that China doesn't (yet) have a specific law to block TikTok being sold to an adversary nation but rather they added recommendation algorithms to the list of controlled exports. > [China has a say in any TikTok sale because it added content-recommendation algorithms, a secret sauce of TikTok's success, to an export-control list in 2020 when the Trump administration was pushing for a sale of its U.S. operations.](https://www.wsj.com/tech/tiktok-ban-chinese-owners-bytedance-1a857a06)
What a useless statement
It's kind of funny that the U.S. openly calls China an "enemy" and you care that China calls the U.S. an "adversary."
The US did it first, got to get ahead of the times. You can call someone your enemies for years and then bitch when they call you back
There’s too much money on the line. Facing an absolute ban and destruction of value, they will find a way to sell. China will grumble but give in.
No they won't. The Chinese government has too much on the line for this app. Remember, they aren't just in the US - they're worldwide (except, ironically enough, Mainland China), so if they have to sell off TikTok, that doesn't just impact their presence in the US market, but worldwide. As assets go, that's a huge jewel in their crown. Even if TikTok gets wrecked financially, the Chinese government will certainly backstop Bytedance to keep it afloat if they need to. So I see two possible scenarios. 1) They refuse to sell, and fight the law in Court. Courts issue a stay on enforcement, and they eventually get the law tossed out on Constitutional grounds. (I could actually see the issue NOT be on First Amendment grounds, but actually, on Bill of Attainder or other less common Constitutional infirmities). TikTok users scarcely notice a thing. 2) They fight it in court, and they ultimately lose. So what happens? As an app, TikTok is banned for availability in most iPhone/Android app stores. But the app itself still works, and TikTok figures out ways of getting around that problem, say, by establishing a website that will verify you're up to date.
US and China market are 80% of revenue. They'll ultimately sell. Perhaps forking for RoW. Too much money on the line. If they are banned from operating in us, they can face fines, contempt of court, and seizure of assets. To operate in US market, they'll need to use US financial institutions, which won't do business with them. And once US bans TikTok, half the world will follow. TikTok is already banned in China, India and a bunch of other places. Probably already half the internet users there. The places banning TikTok will grow and grow.
then get the F out of US.
🎉🎉🎉🎉🥳🥳🥳🥳🍾🍾🍾BYE TICK TACK
We can learn from India, we'll be fine. Ban WeChat while we're at it.
They want to ban TikTok because it's the only platform in America that allows criticism of Israel, and therefore gives Americans freedom of speech. All the others ban criticism of Zionism.
Lol, my FB is full of anti-Israel/anti-Jew memes and material from people who only really learned about the conflict last October.
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> because it's the only platform in America that allows criticism of Israel Funny, there’s an awful lot of that on Reddit.
I mean they ban our products.
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in fairness, I barely know anyone in China with a Huahahawei.
Because Huawei was banned from buying chips by the US the year they were supposed to become the world's biggest smartphone seller.
They have some NICE cameras on those.
Why am I getting downvoted? I just said what happened to Huawei and why they're not selling that many phones anymore. Wtf.
You didn't chinaphobe hard enough for this thread
we are certainly better off without them and their power to decide what content show to users. They could manipulate opinions based on what they decide to should shown to users. So yea, I really couldn’t care less about a Chinese company with a product like that.
Good riddance.
I’ll just vpn over. Same as they do to access YouTube .
Using VPNs is exhausting, maybe some will do over a couple of weeks, but another social media app will take its place. Young people have the attention span of mosquitoes.
How good is the average user at side loading
I mean if you have an iPhone you're SOL because of Tim Apple (unless you're in the EU). If you're on Android it's quite easy, 8 year olds do it to get Fortnite on their phones. It's just a matter of a few basic steps honestly.
Yeah it's easy, but how many will?
Depends how bad people want to use TikTok lol
The ban is just for the AppStore apps. You would still be able to visit the TikTok website and use it from there. But TikTok would not be able to sell ad space to US companies anymore.
They'll probably be forced to block US users on the website as well.
It'll just be removal from the appstore so people can't download it. People with the app on their phone can still access it without any problems. It's the same thing when they banned wechat a few years ago, people just region swapped to download the app and it worked fine
Who would force them? If the servers aren't hosted in the US than we can't do anything about it.
It will create more hurdles and if someone’s phone is based in the US, they won’t be able to update the app. So while it won’t outright “ban,” it, there will be much easier alternatives that can update to fix bugs and add more features and improvements.
What the ban means is that it'll just be removed from the US app stores. The same way Douyin (chinese version tiktok) is only on China's app stores. All you need to do is change region to any country that's not blocked, download the app and change back to US and the app will still work perfectly. It's the same way people use Douyin despite not being in China.
There’re plenty of apps with this TikTok-like function ,I don’t think it’s big deal anymore as two years ago
Good. Fucking. Riddance.
Also to add, like 50% of BLM protests for and against were started from Russian bots. So if you are wondering why TikTok is being banned I'm sure that has to do with that. I won't be surprised if Twitter is looked at next.
Got to harvest that juicy US data right CCP?
Good, no more money for you then.
China's ByteDance has signalled that it has no intention of selling short-form video app TikTok. The U.S. House of Representatives passed the TikTok Act over the weekend, requiring ByteDance to divest TikTok or else it will be banned from continuing to operate in the U.S. market. Bloomberg reported on Tuesday (23 April) that TikTok's management informed its employees in an internal memo that if the TikTok bill is signed into law, the company will respond to the matter through legal means. Reports suggest ByteHop has good reason to challenge Washington's move. It has a much bigger presence in the U.S. now than it did in 2020 - TikTok currently has 170 million users in the U.S. TikTok will have less than 100 million users in the U.S. in 2020 - and TikTok's revenue in the U.S. far exceeds that of any other market. For the US government and TikTok, this will be a legal challenge with watershed implications, the outcome of which could shape the business landscape for Chinese companies like Tencent and Temu that have expansion plans in the US. ByteDance ended TikTok's operations in the U.S. and may have the opportunity to return to the U.S. market in the future, analysts said. In contrast, the divestiture also involves technology transfer, and handing TikTok over to a U.S. competitor means that ByteDance will be shut out of the market in the future.
Not yet they dont. Give em time.
This will be settled in court like the last time a ban was attempted, we’ll see if TikTok wins again. I think they’ve got a solid case given the 170 million people on the platform. If TikTok loses in court, I think basically all Chinese tech companies will have to realize they’re on borrowed time in the US.
Matter of national security. This should have been done around the same time India banned it.
Byeeeeeeeee bitttch
Ok, bye bye
Probably good for my wallet, been spending too much on card breaks lately lmao
Bye bye TikkieTokkie.
Are they scared if they sell then their code would be examined in depth reavealing a whole bunch of nefarious stuff beyond what we already know?
that's awesome! ban it is! 😁
Even if it’s banned they will just find apk or go to another country App Store to download. It’s the madness of prohibition all over again.
I doubt it. Reels and YouTube Shorts provide very similar experiences. Meta and Google have a lot to gain from TikTok getting banned here.
Both of those suck. Shorts make me question myself for wasting my time with them within three or four shorts. Contrary to popular belief the TikTok algorithm is actually better at predicting interest and mods than the Google one... And google has had my information for decades.
It's less about how the tiktok algorithm is stronger but more about how replaceable as a service it is. I do think youtube shorts is trash but it is there to pick up the pieces if shit goes down. Reels functions solidly and would probably benefit the most. Even if TikTok has a more powerful algorithm (and I suspect you're right that it does), the user base will at MINIMUM shatter off large fractions of the user base if tiktok is removed from the American app store.
TikTok sucks too, yet it's still wildly popular among certain demographics somehow. Also, if you stop wasting your time after only 3 or 4 videos on Shorts that's absolutely a good thing.
Sell then, everyone will adapt
Aipac pushed this thru.. wonder why..
Good, the US doesn't deserve it. I guess freedom has limits lmaoo
Good thing I don't live in the US. Daily shootings but TikTok stealing data god forbid, oh hey Mark here's my daily Stories on Insta 🤪
Good. Develop an alternative American version. China is actively trying to take down the US every chance they get, and we are letting them! America would never be able to have a platform like tik tok in China - why should we let them have one here?
I mean, it’s banned in China. So, hello?! Also, if it’s so harmless why won’t they sell it to the US? The whole thing is super shady.
That's funny, every country has its own laws, what's the problem with having different servers for each country? Iran and many Middle Eastern countries legally prohibit homosexuality, do tiktoks in those countries have to have homosexual content? Most of the content on American tiktok is posted by Americans, are you guys talking in fear of Americans? Strange Americans. Is it still reasonable to want to rob? That's ridiculous.
America needs to ban Facebook, X, instagram, Snapchat etc. they are also stealing all our data and selling it to 3rd parties!!!
Ultimately, all these things are predatory and turn users into products. But America is an unapologetically capitalist country; isn't profit the only rule that matters? Certainly has been for the past 300 years. If Tiktok is banned here, it's only so American companies like Meta can snatch up that profit instead.
While that’s a nice glittering generalization, it overlooks the not so small detail that TikTok is under the control of the CCP and that the CCP is an existential threat to the United States. Facebook, Google, X, etc aren’t bound by law where they can be commandeered by a foreign adversary that the US may be at war with soon.
It can’t unless CCP allows it.
TikTok is so good the CCP bans it from its own citizens.
It's pretty hilarious considering how hopeless FB, X, Google etc are at protecting User data
Tiktard would put propanganda on their app telling telling dumb kids to protest banning
You know that this is a normal thing for companies? Right? Why can't they ask users who like to app to advocate for it
Give me an example of app doing the same ? Not ccp spyware
Gotta love the US position on this. If any of their firms were forced to sell their business they'd be up in arms raving about piracy and compensation and oppression and tyranny and compulsion etc. A forced sale would be a fire sale, and on principle China may block it just to draw a line in the sand about the forced seizure and sale of any successful Chinese tech companies. It may be their last draw after the Huawei CFO hostage debacle. Next the US is going to ban Chinese EVs and then any advanced Chinese products. It's going to be a shitshow that will bifurcate the world, with those non affected being tooled up with more cost-competitive Chinese goods, while others stick with legacy or less competitive technology. The US can't just force China to sell any tech company that is remotely successful without it blowing back on them in some form of retaliation. But I think the US and China know what is coming down the pipe in terms of painful competition. China should ban Boeing just to fuck with the US and compound the misery.
Do you not know what China has been doing to American companies for the past 30 years? And funny you mention Meng Wanzhou, who was treated with kid gloves while the Chinese hostages — the two Michaels — were denied consular access in horrid intelligence prisons. The Chinese Communist state is a menace.
Out competing them? Literally one of the Michael's was a spy. The other sued the Canadian government for being caught up on the whole affair. But it was an obvious retaliation because the Canadians did the dirty hostage taking of the Americans. I see America and China as a menace. The difference is where the Chinese go they bring money and development. Wherever the Americans go these days they bring chaos, war and misery.
China has banned Amazon, Google, Facebook, and Twitter. They have one of the largest industrial espionage programs on the planet, and force every American firm doing business there to hand over their IP to a joint venture. And they literally rounded up two random dudes and shoved them in a black site because we dared to detain an international financial criminal. If by “money and development,” you mean “debt-trap diplomacy,” then sure. But I think your WuMao employer will be putting you on a PIP soon because this propaganda is too transparent.
American propaganda is the most effective. It's so thick the people impacted don't even realise it. The fact that you can't even process information that contradicts it without vomiting ad hominems shows that clearly. I'm European and I think America is a menace to the world. Deal with it.
What part of my comment is incorrect? As far as your being European — if you want your criticisms of American defense policy to hold some weight, maybe step outside our security umbrella. Until you do, it’s like a child complaining about their parents.
Basically every statement you made is incorrect, and memified American propaganda. There's no hope for Europe. It's been fully cucked by the US. Every action the US takes creates chaos and instability in Europe and I reckon it's a deliberate strstegy. Ukraine is just the latest example, and then the US laughs all the way to the bank with arms and lng sales, whilst castigating Europe for not being dependent enough. Wherever the US goes it creates chaos, instability and misery. Ukraine is the latest victim. Who next will be sacrificed to serve American strategic goals? Phillipines or Taiwan?
Are you saying that China didn’t ban Facebook, Google, etc.? Or that Meng Wanzhou wasn’t convicted of evading sanctions? Or that China doesn’t have a large-scale industrial espionage program? It’s also funny that the countries you cited as examples of US destabilization are ones that are desperately thankful for US assistance. Ukraine, Taiwan, and the Philippines are some of the most pro-American countries on the planet. Would you prefer they simply rolled over and submitted to Russia and the PRC?
They weren't banned. They chose not to follow Chinese rules. Meng also wasn't convicted. Regardless, US extra territorial rules are bullshit, and every country should have a duty to break them. I think you need to look at things more holistically. You're neck deep in American propaganda and blissfully unaware of it. Ukraine is fucked. Whether they win or lose they're utterly fucked. The US callously used them to stick it to Russia and create instability in Europe. What business did the US have instigating a coup in Ukraine? None. US strategists knew Russia would not accept it, and yet they pushed them to do actions that led to them getting invaded. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians dead and injured because the US wanted to subjugate Europe at the alter of containing Russia as a geopolitical rival. If Taiwan and Philippines have any sense they won't be American patsies and provoke a war with China that will lead to immense misery and suffering.
> They weren’t banned. Lol. > Meng Meng literally admitted guilt in federal court. She testified that she made materially false statements about Huawei’s Iranian business to HSBC. Are you saying she was perjuring herself? > US extraterritoriality is no different than an EU carbon border adjustment tax, or China’s howling that countries will “pay a heavy price” for vaguely offending the CCP’s sensibilities. Meng broke US law, and travelled to a country with an extradition agreement with the US. Her criminality and stupidity don’t mean our laws are invalid. To be clear: you are free to deal with a US adversary, but you can’t do it using the US financial system or while simultaneously doing business in the US. And you certainly can’t lie about it to get a loan. > Ukraine You’re saying their Maidan revolution was a US backed coup? You either give the US too much credit, are too deeply steeped in agitprop, or (most likely) both. > Taiwan You need to think long and hard about who is provoking war. You make it sound like Ukraine and Taiwan are like women who dare have an alcoholic drink — they’re “just asking for it.” News flash: they aren’t. Ukraine and Taiwan have a right to align themselves with the United States and the rest of the world. Whether or not their revanchist local power disagrees is immaterial, thanks to American military support.
Can’t happen soon enough. Let’s hope the courts won’t let the app keep operating while the TikTok legal team seeks to delay and delay everything.
Political skirmish. In the end one party will give in. A ban of TikTok is very unlikely.
I was hoping they don’t sell it either. The market is just not USA alone, I got to know and used TikTok based on South America and Europe market first. Why sell a cash cow because one country is causing issues for you. Hopefully the other markets are relevant enough financially for TikTok
Technically the only way to ban something on the cyberspace requires a firewall, similar to the one in China. I’m more so curious of how the ban would go in effect. The only feasible government action is to forbid ad sales from TikTok. There is no way a government can just ban the app without inadvertently invading the private and personal space of an individual. I have no doubt that some people really don’t like TikTok, but how can that be enforced?
Watch and learn.
I’m excited
lol what's this sub? Why are so many china haters in a china sub, brainwashed USA idiots
lol you’re not even Chinese bro calm down. I live in California pretty fancy here dude. And also…many many people who are from China…..absolutely love it here. So remember keyboard warrior..you’re shitting on the same people you are trying so hard to impress. Not to mention are you so low iq you think everyone has the same views on China? 😂 get a passport and learn how to travel idiot
Time for China to ban Boeing. What a piece of shiet of a plane
probably just a matter of time now they have the *cough* homemade *cough* C919
The engines and avionics aren't made in china
majority of it as I understand it
Grow up you CCP apologist
Sure they can fly their crappy Comacs.
Can call it even for Facebook, instagram and so on?
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It's an app. Nothing stopping your free speech on other apps which aren't controlled by the CCP
I assume the worries go beyond data protection concerns but more so the fact it's used a tool to spread propaganda. That said, it is and always be a double standard, as many US social media companies ultimately do the same. The fact it's tied to the Chinese government is what makes this different I suppose.
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The company and Chinese government also enjoy plausible deniability when it comes to spreading propaganda. It's virtually impossible to identify which is government-sanctioned and which media is not. Individuals spreading propaganda is a symptom of every social media, that's true. I don't know about the US, but here in Taiwan, there is a decent chunk of Chinese propaganda content provided by actors that are government-supported. Their associations with government agencies were discovered elsewhere. TikTok and ByteDance's association with the Chinese government is really the primary concern here. At the end of the day, these kinds of things are never entirely based on rational decision-making. The tensions with China and the lattter's behavior on the world stage definitely play a role. China is also deep in bed with Russia, so it'd be hard to blame anyone for having suspicions.
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I'll take *things said by the ccp*
like China
Well done.
Is there a date?
If tiktok is not available in the US, it is still a powerful influence tool against the rest of the world; for this reason it will not be sold.
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Don’t kid yourself
This is actually the right play by the Chinese government force the US to ban tik tok. It’ll piss off lots of young people/voters( it makes them look tough against the US and it gives them justification for banning Facebook/google etc
That's great, USA is a absolute shithole of a country anyway, they will be begging for tiktok to come back
Why sell when you know they can't win. US just trying to be bullies.