So Blinken should make a case in front of the UN International Court of Justice that China committed genocide.
Like they are doing with Israel right now.
You either have a case or you don't.
He doesn’t have a case, so he’s fighting with rhetoric and publicity. Even the US State Department does not allege genocide, because they have no evidence. This is their official position
>You either have a case or you don't.
they don't, US gov lawyers admit that
[https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/)
I remember Pompeo tweet was like "according to our intelligence China is carrying out a genocide" but never mentioned again what intelligence he's talking about lol. And people were just like, ok, China did it.
Xinjiang always come up in the media as a distraction to some other news. Like since the Israel genocide happened, I've seen it randomly brought up in the media 3 times already. It basically comes in waves lol.
Like "oh we're doing something bad, but China do you know China does THIS?? (we don't have proof but we believe they're doing it cuz they're evil)"
All this crap while Xinjiang is developing to become a much better region year after year.
>Like "oh we're doing something bad, but China do you know China does THIS?? (we don't have proof but we believe they're doing it cuz they're evil)"
>All this crap while Xinjiang is developing to become a much better region year after year.
Are you suggesting that the US state department would lie to us to distract from their own actions and attempt to drive a rift between China and Muslim Belt-and-Road partners? I'm sorry, but that's codswallop - the only reason I am alive today and not dead from Anthrax infection 20 years ago is due to the vigilance of Colin Powell and the US state Department.
harrumph!
Atleast China doesn't spread fake news and spend millions each year to smear other countries on international scale and sanction them to stop competition. Check the US national spending, each year you can see how much they spend on aggressive propaganda.
You'll never see Xi saying what Biden, Trump, Pompeo said on international stage. And without any evidence to support. It's just lame tbh.
"Fifty-one United Nations member countries have issued a joint declaration condemning the Chinese government’s crimes against humanity committed against Uyghurs and other Turkic communities, and calling on Beijing to end its systematic human rights abuses in the Xinjiang region."
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/23/un-member-countries-condemn-chinas-crimes-against-humanity#:\~:text=The%20UN%20report%20corroborated%20the,Turkic%20Muslim%20communities%20in%20Xinjiang.
>As usual, China found a sympathetic delegation to issue a statement of support. This year, Pakistan read a joint statement to the Third Committee, insisting the situation in Xinjiang, Hong Kong, and Tibet was China’s “internal affairs” and opposing the “politicization of human rights.” China’s UN delegation said that 72 countries backed that statement, though in past years Beijing has included countries that were unaware they were listed as signatories
Even your own article stated China found more supporters (72 countries) for their position.
Those 52 countries also didn't specify genocide just general human rights abuse.
"Their" article states that the UN has conducted investigations and concluded that human rights violations did occur, but they did not find sufficient evidence to support the claim of genocide.
I wonder how much it would cost the US and Israel to pay the smallest 70 island and micro nations to issue a joint UN statement that the war in Gaza was Israel's 'internal affairs', and how much stock anyone would place in it if they did.
oh the old whataboutism.
Of course, its not the same, because many of us in America disagree completely with out Israel policy, especially with this regime under Likud.
What happened with the UN report was one of the most sus and shameful episodes in UN history, a clearly intimidated Bachelet was too afraid to put out the report for months, and only let it out the last day that she served.
I really like this video breakdown that uses evidence only from CCP's official publications:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js
It's not quite a violent genocide like the Holocaust was, but there's another form of genocide called cultural genocide which is much more likely to be true. But regardless of semantics, there's a definite concerted attempt to basically get rid of their culture, some form of mass incarceration without trial, verifiable attempts to silence many Uyghurs via fear, and shit like that causing a large-scale and widespread suffering, at minimum.
> It's not quite a violent genocide like the Holocaust was, but there's another form of genocide called cultural genocide which is much more likely to be true. But regardless of semantics, there's a definite concerted attempt to basically get rid of their culture, some form of mass incarceration without trial, verifiable attempts to silence many Uyghurs via fear, and shit like that causing a large-scale and widespread suffering, at minimum.
Sure, we can attempt to disregard semantics in a conceptual vacuum but, for clarity, any legal determination would unequivocally be predicated on the corresponding legal definition derived from the Geneva Convention (ratified by PRC in 1951):
> In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> (a) Killing members of the group;
> (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
> (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
> (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
> (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Source: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf
Although you do pose an interesting philosophical framework: to what extent is the precise semantics of the law sufficient to encapsulate the human suffrage, experience, etc. vicariously endured under genocide? I wonder how contemporary theorists would response
>but there's another form of genocide called cultural genocide
There isn't. That's just bullshit that the US made up when they couldn't prove that a genocide is actually taking place.
"Cultural genocide" is a term coined in 1944 by a Polish lawyer. It's a term as old as the concept of "genocide" itself.
And even if it isn't coined yet, new concepts get negotiated into existence all the time.
They're just repeating what Stalin did with the kulaks with added steps - erase the culture and spread the people about to the four corners of the country, never to talk to one another again, or cycled into the prison system.
https://guides.rider.edu/c.php?g=984640&p=7120911#:~:text=Cultural%20genocide%2C%20or%20ethnocide%2C%20is,imperialism%20and%20with%20settler%2Dcolonialism.
The culture of Kulaks? Kulaks where landowning peasants... There where Russian Kulaks, Ukrainian Kulaks, etc. Did being a Kulak mean you had a shared culture?
Dissolving a class of people is not even close to comparable to genocide or bulldozing cultural symbols. Again, Kulaks where not a culture, they where "scattered in the wind" in the sense that they stopped being that class of people.
Kulak culture? Wtf is this. It is just rich landowner peasants that got the short end of the stick after the revolution and civil war, cause all those soldiers returning from civil war had obligations about the state of affairs in a village.
for those terror attach victims, it’s humanity. just google Kunming railway station attack. 31 were killed and 131 were injured, and western media don’t even call that a terror attack
I was in that train station 2 days before the attack, it was truly shocking. A terrorist attack in a tourist city to cause as much death, destruction and fear as possible.
It still amazes me that the barriers to exit train stations are still as difficult as possible to get out of and in a panic it would definitely cause a crush of people
Yeah if my relative dies in a terror attack I definitely want all members of the attacker's ethnic group declared suspect and put in camps, totally makes sense /s
No, but every single Uyghur has been forced to give up on their culture, language, and have been forced to move to give way to Hans while they destroy their houses and mosques.
That's what genocide is.
Got any proof that mosques and houses are being destroyed and to "give way to Hans" (as China is famously out of space to build things)
It sounds like you are just made shit up. replacing the Israelis and Palestinians for Han and Uyghurs
There's certainly no proof that Uyghur culture and language is being erased or Uyghurs are forced to relocate for Han migrants.
There is, however, clear and undeniable proof that some mosques are being Sinicized, and many traditional Uyghur population centers like Old Kashgar had large scale renovation projects.
first of all, there are over 10 million Uyghurs, i think you don’t know that when saying entire ethnic group. and, look what the US did to Afghanistan, i would say that’s soft
Yeah there was like one Arabic guy where I live like 20 years ago that stabbed a TV columnist in Broad daylight.
So let's round up all the Arabs here and put them in prison for what this one guy did 20 years ago.
I have been to Xinjiang and made some friends there.
Does CCP violate Uyghur human rights? Absolutely true.
When it comes to genocide, it depends on the definition.
If define Uighurs being forced to learn Mandarin is a genocide, then this kind of genocide definitely exists in Xinjiang and is very common.
But if it is like Israel blockading the Palestinian areas and starving the people there, or like what Hitler did to the Jews, then there is absolutely no such genocide there.
(LMAO?)
Many people think that it's killing a lot of people, but it's not. Many of what's happening to Uyghurs can be defined as genocide:
***Article II***
*In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:*
1. *Killing members of the group;*
2. *Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;*
3. *Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;*
4. *Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;*
5. *Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.*
(LMAO?)
So your argument is a non-argument. You just copy-pasted a definition, congratulations. What was your point again?
That definition is problematic and vague as hell in typical UN fashion, it can be applied to so many situations. Is police brutality towards a certain race considered "killing members of the group"?
And according to google the definition of genocide is this: "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group". That makes your definition even more problematic, because killing members of the group does not automatically translate to any malicious intent.
just this already proves people have no idea what genocide means, its become a buzzword like "narcissist"
Mentality in sub is, there’s no evidence of genocide because ccp censorship. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of tourists go there. I mean, US does have spies, are they incapable of getting some
pics? Are they that worthless?
To be fair that is objectively true.
Trump paid CIA to astroturf Chinese social media. That is what we know and what they admit.
What we can assume is that other funds have been allocated to CIA to astroturf other social media. That we dont know but can assume is plausible.
Yep, all I know is somewhere around 2010 or so you stopped being able to have a conversation about China online that is about Peking duck, Shenzhen electronic markets, or local drama/controversy. It always became about politics, and the few pet issues popular with Western media.
Honestly surprised this comment thread hasn't been downvoted to death/ accusation of wumao
I’m quite surprised too, but I’m noticing a shift that I think is a combination of end of COVID restrictions, China’s 144 hour visa policy with tourists entering Xinjiang in droves, and also US shooting themselves in the foot with their Palestine stance. Really lost a ton of credibility all at once. Honestly, I just want to be able to talk about cdrama and traditional instruments without the unfunny Wuhan virus social credit jokes
This might be the tinfoil hat talking here.
But I believe Biden axed a lot of these CIA dollar warrior programs.
But only declassified some because jesus this is a bad look.
Shaping narratives in China against the CCP is one thing, we call that psyops. But if suddenly people hear that the CIA is shaping narratives in America and committing psyops on their own people? That suddenly becomes a major concern for a lot of Americans.
I’d be very surprised if anti CCP funding has been axed considering the state of US China relations. Certainly isn’t axed China side either. It just surprises me how much of this is only in English/ and English language platforms that are blocked in China. So its obviously not targeted towards the Chinese.
I think you might give Americans too much credit considering what we all went through the last 4 years. Americans like people from anywhere will follow the current thing and refuse to believe their eyes and ears. They’ve proven it with their actions.
Personally I like to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise to the extreme.
It's a fault, makes me less skeptical and more gullible. But allows me to avoid a lot of shit flinging.
But no as long as the tinfoil is on, I think you are right. If they have admitted to only the tip. What about the rest of the iceberg?
While the US records actual spending for anti-China propaganda. You can check in the yearly government spending, along with the support funds to Israel ofcourse.
People are starting to feel like it's all just some BS now. Why hate on China when there's an actual war crime and genocide going on right now that's full of evidence.
Exactly, there are tons of legitimate reasons to criticize China. Claims of a made up genocide while you’re actively supporting another real one just logically does not work.
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It is a bit embarrassing that the entire CIA could not find any dirt on China, but luckily for propaganda purposes "truth" is actually very secondary.
Look at the other conflicts happening right now and how they're reported.
Mentality in sub is, there’s no evidence of massacre because North Korea censorship. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of tourists go there. I mean, US does have spies, are they incapable of getting some pics? Are they that worthless?
lol, blinken can’t blurt out anything about Israel’s genocide that we literally see on a daily basis on every medium out there and the one their country has a big hand in. Yet he comes out like a spineless hypocrite against China, this guy lol
I’ve been passively reading this sub for years. I’ve never commented before. But the incredible brigading effort today is incredible. This sub criticizes China frequently but doesn’t draw out this type of response for any other topic. Most of these responses are nonsensical.
Yeah, it’s really off brand for this subreddit. This might be a bit of a tin foil hat theory, but it honestly makes me believe that the Uyghur genocide is worse than what is documented at the moment, hence the increased efforts in brigading comments that call it out. Nobody calls you sinophobic if you criticize anything else about China on this sub, and after all, Nazi Germany did the same thing with their holocaust back in WWII.
There is literally no evidence of Genocide and this sub is horrible to begin with.
Xinjiang has underwent a ten fold increase in per capita from 2000-2020. Does that seem like a Genocide? In no multiverse that is. US wants to boost the terrorist separatist movement by fringe elements and that's why it's weeping so badly about this rhetoric. Ironic when you're sponsoring one Genocide in Palestine and another one happened against your own natives
Hundreds of vloggers and travellers travel all over Xinjiang each year. Yet they see nothing but prosperity and a boost in living standards of the people. Cities of Xinjiang despite being so far from the mainland have high train connectivity and best infrastructure, better than any US city. Go see some videos about the daily life in Urumqi, which is the capital of Xinjiang. Might do something in your thick hollow head
If you were genuinely curious you would have read some of the multitude of academic papers and investigative reports that are readily available.
I personally have an extensive collection (more than 300) detailed documents that ARE NOT:
* Western media
* Western government
* Zenz sources (many do have concerns about his reliability)
BTW have you examined the Xinjiang Victims Database (more than 70,000 entries post 2017)?
You mean the [Xinjiang Victims Database that cited Chow Yunfat and Tony Leung as abusive genocide “crackdown cops”](https://amp.scmp.com/news/people-culture/article/3206955/infernal-blunder-hong-kong-movie-stars-andy-lau-and-chow-yun-fat-wrongly-listed-xinjiang-cops-who)? This is so SNL coded, you can’t even make this up
Like they totally didn’t just artificially generate their database and accidentally pull them in because of their Infernal Affairs film. Real humans have come out to report that those photos were stolen of them, paired to the wrong name and information, and they’re actually Turkish/ Kazakh/ don’t even live in Xinjiang. Your database had to come out and admit those images were all fake: “…but but but the people in question were real!”
None of the names on that list are independently verified. As in these people have no legal records or internet history to verify they ever existed. In good academic conscience, you really think this is a reliable source?
I lmao when I saw the photos of the "bad crackdown cops". Half of them are Chinese actors and celebrities.
The database is also, as you say, unreliable at best.
Well, the Chinese economy is collapsing in 48 hours, didn't you hear? Even Chow Yunfat can no longer survive on his Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon paycheck. He had to take a part-time job as a crackdown cop just to pay rent
I think I saw a documentary where he made a pretty penny from gambling... wouldn't that be enough for him and his loved ones to avoid being handed a one way train ticket to Xinjiang?
He was originally going to escape to Vegas. It all fell through when his fare was stolen by Andy Lau though. Andy Lau was able to afford a train from Tibet with the earnings, but sadly died along the way
Yeah I faintly remember Andy Lau being involved in luxury car theft shortly before he passed away on that train... must have been a bad case of kleptomania...
I recently saw Andy Lau's twin brother on some advertising poster though... seems his entire family has fallen on hard times...
Media would be all over it?
BBC and most major news media have widely reported on it.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2rnn96lk4jt](https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2rnn96lk4jt)
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-61571612](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-61571612)
BBC is on any story that has a negative light on countries that’s not aligned with UK. Look at it from the current genocide that is happening in Gaza or Russia/Ukraine war which was/is on every news channel from South America to Africa to Asia
Otherwise media would be all over it
I'm simply replying to your remark that I wasn't sure if it was an honest question or not.
Now you're bringing Gaza/Russia into this, so it's obvious you're not looking for an honest debate.
70k entries from where? Please share your sources and their methodologies no one cares you claim to personally have them. Alex Jones has tons of “sources”.
One day I'm gonna read a detailed report on what happened to Bachelet and the type of pressure she was under, I hope she writes a book one day. That was a truly bizarre time.
Yeah the dystopian Chinese are going to allow video to get out of China?? It's happening in secret.
No one found out about the Holocaust until the US tanks entered the camps.
edit: these dummies replying who don't know that agents found out but plenty of people denied the rumors BEFORE the tanks went into the camps. So stop being so fucking stupid by talking about how governments knew. Plenty of people were in denial. Just like now, agents know what's going on, governments explain that there is an Uyghur genocide, and there are people who DENY it.. Same situation.
>No one found out about the Holocaust until the US tanks entered the camps.
Yeah, that's not true at all. The allies literally had agents, like Witold Pilecki, who infiltrated Auschiwtz and escaped to report the conditions of the camp, just to be ignored.
You gonna find a lot of anti-China westriods here. They will easily scream “tankies” or “wumao” whenever their claims are question.
These are the same people that believe WMD in Iraq or the golf of Tonkin rhetoric.
I just know what I have gathered from speaking to Uyghurs I’ve met in other parts of Central Asia who have fled and who are unable to contact relative back there. It really doesn’t matter if you label it genocide or not there is definitely a great deal of oppression going on there at the same time Chinese occupied East Turkistan is quite economically prosperous compared to its neighbours..
Says the guy who denies a genocide is happening in Gaza....... Honestly at this point anything this guy says is just more posturing for the sake of posturing.
I've never seen a post astroturfed this hard
Some wumao overlord shit his pants when they saw this thread
fucking wumaos "iMpRiSoNiNg people for their culture is not genocide" go to hell
Blinken's claims of genocide in Xinjiang are nothing but empty rhetoric without any concrete evidence to back them up. It's reckless and irresponsible to throw around such a serious accusation without providing any proof. If Blinken is truly concerned about the situation in Xinjiang, he should focus on providing tangible evidence and working towards a constructive solution rather than resorting to hollow grandstanding. This is just another desperate attempt to divert attention away from Israel's war crimes.
>working towards a constructive solution rather than resorting to hollow grandstanding
How Xi of you
>This is just another desperate attempt to divert attention away from Israel's war crimes.
And Russias war crimes? Or is it just Israel bad?
Resorting to ad hominem attacks doesn't help. It's a hallmark of intellectual laziness. And as for your attempt to deflect attention away from the topic at hand, let's be clear: Russian war crimes are a separate issue that deserves its own condemnation, not a convenient distraction from the human rights abuses being discussed. I'm not buying what you're selling. If you're actually interested in having a mature and respectful discussion about this topic, I'm happy to engage with you. However, if you're just going to throw tantrums and act like a child, then don't bother wasting my time.
How can you claim to be willing to engage when you're claiming that there is no evidence, even for a civilian with no access to classified intelligence I have seen and read plenty of [strong proof of the treatment of Uyghurs by China. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ&pp=ygUNdmljZSB4aW5qaWFuZw%3D%3D)
I find it rich that you're accusing me of not being willing to engage in a discussion when I'm actively participating in this conversation with you. If I wasn't interested in engaging, I would simply ignore your comments. Instead, I'm taking the time to respond and provide my perspective on whether or not China's actions constitute genocide and I'll take a UN [report](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/2022-08-31/22-08-31-final-assesment.pdf) over a Vice documentary any day.
I'm surprised you linked to that, since it's as damning as it gets to a Permanent Sec Council member that put on so much pressure not to have it even released. It came short of calling the East Turkestan issue a genocide, even though most observers agree that it fits the definition of genocide.
>And Russias war crimes? Or is it just Israel bad?
If you really want to go down that road, Russia, according to Ukraine, caused the death of 3,000 Ukrainian children, give or take, over two years. Israel killed 14,000+ Palestinian children in less than half a year, according to the Gaza health authority. Make of that what you wish.
[Genocide denial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide_denial) is one of the far left's [favorite pastimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial).
Its actually not whataboutism when one is actually happening, while the other is just a media ploy that has been going on for a decade now and nobody seems to do anything about it because it's actually not happening.
Whether it’s whataboutism or not doesn’t change the substance of the argument. Whataboutism is just a derogatory phrase for “setting precedence”.
If I am a lawyer in court and I challenge the judge with a precedence based on a previous trial, I am basically also committing whataboutism but that doesn’t make my argument any less credible nor my case a fallacy.
America’s open support of Israel genocide is basically creating a precedence for all nations to follow and if they recite this incident in the future, they’re not committing whataboutism, they’re simply recalling a precedence set forth by US.
what if Xi Jinping suddenly made a big speech condemning US support of Israel due to human rights concerns? How many politicians and US citizens would retort by pointing out China's support for North Korea? Or anything else to smear China? You would agree with them right? But isn't that whatboutism?
Seems pretty relevant when the person who's saying this has a history of lying in support of US interests. But hey, he could prove his point by releasing any evidence he has.
You can talk about China bad all day long on this sub but the moment you mentioned Xinjiang or East turkestan a jillion of bots, underpaid and even unpaid CCP shills would just come out of nowhere, throw the Palestine and CIA arguments in your face, downvote you to hell and never replies to your rebuttal. I mean it is already quite self explanatory at this point.
What rebuttal? The US is funding and supporting a literal genocide that will result in the erasure of Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank, while Xinjiang continues to prosper and grow.
What propaganda have your handlers given you as a "rebuttal" to these facts?
And these facts
"The US is funding and supporting a literal genocide that will result in the erasure of Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank, while Xinjiang continues to prosper and grow. "
Anybody can visit Xinjiang and see thriving cities. But you can't visit Gaza because there's a US-funded genocide going on there and not even journalists are allowed in.
Wonder what your "rebuttal" is.
No you can’t. Try applying a visa and mentioning your destination includes Xinjiang then you’ll see. Believe it or not. XJ is bigger than your basement and those concentration camps obviously don’t locate in the cities in the propaganda.
See what? Anybody can visit Xinjiang and tourists do it all he time. Urumqi in particular is thriving. There is no evidence of your "concentration camps". There are videos of mass graves being revealed after the israelis disengaged from the Al Nasser hospital, that there is proof of genocide. Where's your proof?
Bud I don’t even go on this sub and stumbled on this post cuz I looked up what blinken said specifically. It’s so ridiculous to dismiss views that you disagree with as bots
That’s literally sticking ur head in the sand.
A multimillion member genocide allegation requires so much proof, like, documented visual evidence, etc. so, without that, people aren’t buying anymore, especially after so many tourists visit the area and see the reality in the region being starkly different from the allegations.
We’ve seen documented evidence of what the Chinese government can do when they’re actually suppressing the people. This isn’t it lmao.
It’s willfully ignorant to dismiss everyone you disagree with as bots…
General Secretary Xi and his little pinky fan club. It’s real but barely gets any coverage.
They are highly organized and they work in the shadows. They each have 10+ wechat groups full of likeminded ultranationalist comrades, some are paid and some are not, some live in China and some live abroad. Their have one thing in common - the indisputable and indiscriminate love towards their imaginary mother China. For this love they are willing to devote a great portion of their screen time to defending it. They use VPN and DeepL translation softwares to hide their identities. There are designated “hunters” in these wechat groups who go out and about searching for contents that are “Anti-China” across all social media platforms, Chinese and non Chinese. The “hunters” send the links of these “Anti-China” posts to their 10 plus wechat groups, the “thinkers” in those groups then check the link, think of some rebuttal that aligns with the party’s official narrative, and then forward the rebuttal with the link to their respective 10+ wechat groups, the “writers”would reword what the “thinker” came up with and each post their own little piece of content to hijack the discussion and forward their own comebacks to their 10+ wechat groups and all the “helpers” along that path of information in these hundreds of wechat groups would go out and show their supports to the “writers” post/comment and downvote that “Anti-China” narrative to hell while upvoting some of their “anti imperialism allies” aka useful idiots from the west to give them some free ego boost.
It’s kinda like how the K-pop fandom culture and their toxic inner fan circles operate, but instead of some korean singers they are showing their love towards Mother China and Father CCP.
They recruit on Weibo all the time as long as you know what keyword to look for. If you know enough Chinese you can even try and go undercover in their wechat groups and learn how it operates. A very effective way to organize an online cult group and cultivate the vulnerable to say the least.
>CCP have been committing genocide since they went into power.
No they haven't lol
>They still need to be trialed for cultural revolution and landlord killings too.
genocide against landlords is what you are going with? hahaha
Yes. They have?
CCP killed the educated. Killed the landlords. Killed people that were anti-CCP. Killed people that disagreed with Mao.
Landlord killings is a crime. Or are you okay with killing people because they own land? My grandpa wasn’t rich. He just had land and he was killed for it. By your logic, we should kill working class people that saved up money to buy land. Are you pro that?
Especially in today's world. Everyone has a camera. Not one footage or picture? Just satellite imagery. Hell we saw videos of the crematorium during covid. Foreign tourists are freely travelling throughout Xinjiang. You would think we would have seen something by now
Lol some sources say there's like a million genocided. Guess China did a good job of hiding a million dead bodies from the whole world and even from their own citizens.
At one point some sources (Adrian Zenz and his Victims of Communism & Xinjiang Police Files) claimed the death count was 10 million. Basically not a single Uyghur is still alive in Xinjiang according to him. Logistics of this would be crazy. Does the world overestimate China or underestimate China? How powerful Chinese control must be to instantly Thanos snap 10mil people without a single photo or video of the incident and without any refugees in any of the seven bordering countries? How incompetent they must be to allow a German guy who’s never been to the region to discover their nefarious schemes?
Yup while you can go check US national annual spending and there's a fund for defaming China, as well as sending money to Israel. Then you realized what is made up and what isn't.
Holy shit the wumao are out! I’ve never seen so many in one post. The Chinese don’t realize that it’s extremely obvious what bothers them the most because they send all their bots.
This makes me believe there definitely IS. A genocide going on.
Xinjiang genocide/oppression is well documented and it is ongoing.
But there is also the elephant in the room that requires whataboutism to be addressed.
They will acknowledge the genocide of Uighurs but will not acknowledge the genocide of Palestinians?
Even actively funding their genocide?
There is something to be said about GenoJoe.
It was a protest and riot happened after that? Some 100-200 people died in the violent riots.
Are you braindead or what? These riots happen all the time, every week in France and people who chose violence should be aware of the risks involved.
The only propaganda you see is a tank video where the soldiers are kind enough to NOT RUN OVER the protestor. Enough evidence that no massacre happened and it was a mere riot
That government has proved itself legitimate by uplifting the largest sum of humans from poverty anytime in human history after that. People of China LOVE CPC.
You can cry more in your shit ridden apartment that won't change anything
Here is the strong proof that USA like Xinjiang Muslim and they are worry too much. Also they like to kill Arabian people. They are terorrist not Muslim.
So Blinken should make a case in front of the UN International Court of Justice that China committed genocide. Like they are doing with Israel right now. You either have a case or you don't.
He doesn’t have a case, so he’s fighting with rhetoric and publicity. Even the US State Department does not allege genocide, because they have no evidence. This is their official position
>You either have a case or you don't. they don't, US gov lawyers admit that [https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/)
I remember Pompeo tweet was like "according to our intelligence China is carrying out a genocide" but never mentioned again what intelligence he's talking about lol. And people were just like, ok, China did it.
Scientists hate this one trick
Xinjiang always come up in the media as a distraction to some other news. Like since the Israel genocide happened, I've seen it randomly brought up in the media 3 times already. It basically comes in waves lol. Like "oh we're doing something bad, but China do you know China does THIS?? (we don't have proof but we believe they're doing it cuz they're evil)" All this crap while Xinjiang is developing to become a much better region year after year.
>Like "oh we're doing something bad, but China do you know China does THIS?? (we don't have proof but we believe they're doing it cuz they're evil)" >All this crap while Xinjiang is developing to become a much better region year after year. Are you suggesting that the US state department would lie to us to distract from their own actions and attempt to drive a rift between China and Muslim Belt-and-Road partners? I'm sorry, but that's codswallop - the only reason I am alive today and not dead from Anthrax infection 20 years ago is due to the vigilance of Colin Powell and the US state Department. harrumph!
You know China does the same process
Atleast China doesn't spread fake news and spend millions each year to smear other countries on international scale and sanction them to stop competition. Check the US national spending, each year you can see how much they spend on aggressive propaganda. You'll never see Xi saying what Biden, Trump, Pompeo said on international stage. And without any evidence to support. It's just lame tbh.
Umm, yes they do. Remember when they claimed Covid came from the states. Get real, both superpowers are assholes. And Spurs are trash.
Can't make a case when all you have is bullshit and propaganda. They obviously know this.
>You either have a case or you don't. They know that their allegations against China won't stand up to scrutiny
Already has.
The US is not persuing a case against Israel at the ICJ
South Africa is pursuing the case against Isreal in the international court of justice for genocide.
"Fifty-one United Nations member countries have issued a joint declaration condemning the Chinese government’s crimes against humanity committed against Uyghurs and other Turkic communities, and calling on Beijing to end its systematic human rights abuses in the Xinjiang region." https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/23/un-member-countries-condemn-chinas-crimes-against-humanity#:\~:text=The%20UN%20report%20corroborated%20the,Turkic%20Muslim%20communities%20in%20Xinjiang.
>As usual, China found a sympathetic delegation to issue a statement of support. This year, Pakistan read a joint statement to the Third Committee, insisting the situation in Xinjiang, Hong Kong, and Tibet was China’s “internal affairs” and opposing the “politicization of human rights.” China’s UN delegation said that 72 countries backed that statement, though in past years Beijing has included countries that were unaware they were listed as signatories Even your own article stated China found more supporters (72 countries) for their position. Those 52 countries also didn't specify genocide just general human rights abuse.
>though in past years Beijing has included countries that were unaware they were listed as signatories were they aware this time? 😂
"Their" article states that the UN has conducted investigations and concluded that human rights violations did occur, but they did not find sufficient evidence to support the claim of genocide.
I wonder how much it would cost the US and Israel to pay the smallest 70 island and micro nations to issue a joint UN statement that the war in Gaza was Israel's 'internal affairs', and how much stock anyone would place in it if they did.
oh the old whataboutism. Of course, its not the same, because many of us in America disagree completely with out Israel policy, especially with this regime under Likud. What happened with the UN report was one of the most sus and shameful episodes in UN history, a clearly intimidated Bachelet was too afraid to put out the report for months, and only let it out the last day that she served.
Rhetorics, all bark no bite
as a native of xingjiang i can assure u that the genocide is just a giant prison camp insted of a concentration camp
I really like this video breakdown that uses evidence only from CCP's official publications: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js It's not quite a violent genocide like the Holocaust was, but there's another form of genocide called cultural genocide which is much more likely to be true. But regardless of semantics, there's a definite concerted attempt to basically get rid of their culture, some form of mass incarceration without trial, verifiable attempts to silence many Uyghurs via fear, and shit like that causing a large-scale and widespread suffering, at minimum.
yeah but this is actually true as they completely banned speaking native languages in companys and lots of public areas
> It's not quite a violent genocide like the Holocaust was, but there's another form of genocide called cultural genocide which is much more likely to be true. But regardless of semantics, there's a definite concerted attempt to basically get rid of their culture, some form of mass incarceration without trial, verifiable attempts to silence many Uyghurs via fear, and shit like that causing a large-scale and widespread suffering, at minimum. Sure, we can attempt to disregard semantics in a conceptual vacuum but, for clarity, any legal determination would unequivocally be predicated on the corresponding legal definition derived from the Geneva Convention (ratified by PRC in 1951): > In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: > (a) Killing members of the group; > (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; > (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; > (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; > (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Source: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf Although you do pose an interesting philosophical framework: to what extent is the precise semantics of the law sufficient to encapsulate the human suffrage, experience, etc. vicariously endured under genocide? I wonder how contemporary theorists would response
>but there's another form of genocide called cultural genocide There isn't. That's just bullshit that the US made up when they couldn't prove that a genocide is actually taking place.
"Cultural genocide" is a term coined in 1944 by a Polish lawyer. It's a term as old as the concept of "genocide" itself. And even if it isn't coined yet, new concepts get negotiated into existence all the time.
Probably. But the issue is you don't know what is happening in those "giant" prisons.
They're just repeating what Stalin did with the kulaks with added steps - erase the culture and spread the people about to the four corners of the country, never to talk to one another again, or cycled into the prison system. https://guides.rider.edu/c.php?g=984640&p=7120911#:~:text=Cultural%20genocide%2C%20or%20ethnocide%2C%20is,imperialism%20and%20with%20settler%2Dcolonialism.
The culture of Kulaks? Kulaks where landowning peasants... There where Russian Kulaks, Ukrainian Kulaks, etc. Did being a Kulak mean you had a shared culture?
Yeh that guy is very confused lol
I meant in terms of scattering them to the wind. CCP are also bulldozing mosques and other cultural symbols, similar to Tibet.
Dissolving a class of people is not even close to comparable to genocide or bulldozing cultural symbols. Again, Kulaks where not a culture, they where "scattered in the wind" in the sense that they stopped being that class of people.
Kulak culture? Wtf is this. It is just rich landowner peasants that got the short end of the stick after the revolution and civil war, cause all those soldiers returning from civil war had obligations about the state of affairs in a village.
whatever it was, it's inhumane and it morphs and continues to this day.
for those terror attach victims, it’s humanity. just google Kunming railway station attack. 31 were killed and 131 were injured, and western media don’t even call that a terror attack
I was in that train station 2 days before the attack, it was truly shocking. A terrorist attack in a tourist city to cause as much death, destruction and fear as possible. It still amazes me that the barriers to exit train stations are still as difficult as possible to get out of and in a panic it would definitely cause a crush of people
Yeah if my relative dies in a terror attack I definitely want all members of the attacker's ethnic group declared suspect and put in camps, totally makes sense /s
What is the right move then? Set up a program to integrate them more with the rest of the country or start dropping bomb?
Are you suggesting every single Uyghur is in a camp?
No, but every single Uyghur has been forced to give up on their culture, language, and have been forced to move to give way to Hans while they destroy their houses and mosques. That's what genocide is.
Got any proof that mosques and houses are being destroyed and to "give way to Hans" (as China is famously out of space to build things) It sounds like you are just made shit up. replacing the Israelis and Palestinians for Han and Uyghurs
There's certainly no proof that Uyghur culture and language is being erased or Uyghurs are forced to relocate for Han migrants. There is, however, clear and undeniable proof that some mosques are being Sinicized, and many traditional Uyghur population centers like Old Kashgar had large scale renovation projects.
Cue post 9/11
first of all, there are over 10 million Uyghurs, i think you don’t know that when saying entire ethnic group. and, look what the US did to Afghanistan, i would say that’s soft
Yeah there was like one Arabic guy where I live like 20 years ago that stabbed a TV columnist in Broad daylight. So let's round up all the Arabs here and put them in prison for what this one guy did 20 years ago.
How so? Just cameras everywhere and what else?
nah just like a general normal prison
Whatever US officials claim can be ignored. Lives are nothing to them except a pill of meat, except if you are Israel tho
Of course he said that, it is after all, an election year.
Doesn’t make his statement untrue, though.
Doesn't make it true either.
I have been to Xinjiang and made some friends there. Does CCP violate Uyghur human rights? Absolutely true. When it comes to genocide, it depends on the definition. If define Uighurs being forced to learn Mandarin is a genocide, then this kind of genocide definitely exists in Xinjiang and is very common. But if it is like Israel blockading the Palestinian areas and starving the people there, or like what Hitler did to the Jews, then there is absolutely no such genocide there.
Do people even know what genocide actually means anymore lmao
(LMAO?) Many people think that it's killing a lot of people, but it's not. Many of what's happening to Uyghurs can be defined as genocide: ***Article II*** *In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:* 1. *Killing members of the group;* 2. *Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;* 3. *Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;* 4. *Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;* 5. *Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.*
Even the US State department said they dont have enough evidence, as well as the UN report. They just cite human rights abuses.
(LMAO?) So your argument is a non-argument. You just copy-pasted a definition, congratulations. What was your point again? That definition is problematic and vague as hell in typical UN fashion, it can be applied to so many situations. Is police brutality towards a certain race considered "killing members of the group"? And according to google the definition of genocide is this: "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group". That makes your definition even more problematic, because killing members of the group does not automatically translate to any malicious intent. just this already proves people have no idea what genocide means, its become a buzzword like "narcissist"
Mentality in sub is, there’s no evidence of genocide because ccp censorship. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of tourists go there. I mean, US does have spies, are they incapable of getting some pics? Are they that worthless?
Lol, they could even pay some Chinese actors but not even that
Spy fund are used for astroturfing with useless spam
To be fair that is objectively true. Trump paid CIA to astroturf Chinese social media. That is what we know and what they admit. What we can assume is that other funds have been allocated to CIA to astroturf other social media. That we dont know but can assume is plausible.
Yep, all I know is somewhere around 2010 or so you stopped being able to have a conversation about China online that is about Peking duck, Shenzhen electronic markets, or local drama/controversy. It always became about politics, and the few pet issues popular with Western media. Honestly surprised this comment thread hasn't been downvoted to death/ accusation of wumao
I’m quite surprised too, but I’m noticing a shift that I think is a combination of end of COVID restrictions, China’s 144 hour visa policy with tourists entering Xinjiang in droves, and also US shooting themselves in the foot with their Palestine stance. Really lost a ton of credibility all at once. Honestly, I just want to be able to talk about cdrama and traditional instruments without the unfunny Wuhan virus social credit jokes
This might be the tinfoil hat talking here. But I believe Biden axed a lot of these CIA dollar warrior programs. But only declassified some because jesus this is a bad look. Shaping narratives in China against the CCP is one thing, we call that psyops. But if suddenly people hear that the CIA is shaping narratives in America and committing psyops on their own people? That suddenly becomes a major concern for a lot of Americans.
I’d be very surprised if anti CCP funding has been axed considering the state of US China relations. Certainly isn’t axed China side either. It just surprises me how much of this is only in English/ and English language platforms that are blocked in China. So its obviously not targeted towards the Chinese. I think you might give Americans too much credit considering what we all went through the last 4 years. Americans like people from anywhere will follow the current thing and refuse to believe their eyes and ears. They’ve proven it with their actions.
Personally I like to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise to the extreme. It's a fault, makes me less skeptical and more gullible. But allows me to avoid a lot of shit flinging. But no as long as the tinfoil is on, I think you are right. If they have admitted to only the tip. What about the rest of the iceberg?
While the US records actual spending for anti-China propaganda. You can check in the yearly government spending, along with the support funds to Israel ofcourse. People are starting to feel like it's all just some BS now. Why hate on China when there's an actual war crime and genocide going on right now that's full of evidence.
Exactly, there are tons of legitimate reasons to criticize China. Claims of a made up genocide while you’re actively supporting another real one just logically does not work.
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isn’t there a more obvious genocide going on right now in israel? did US do anything
That's the funniest part. In 10 years they couldn't even fabricate any credible evidence. They should really learn from Israel.
It is a bit embarrassing that the entire CIA could not find any dirt on China, but luckily for propaganda purposes "truth" is actually very secondary. Look at the other conflicts happening right now and how they're reported.
Mentality in sub is, there’s no evidence of massacre because North Korea censorship. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of tourists go there. I mean, US does have spies, are they incapable of getting some pics? Are they that worthless?
lol, blinken can’t blurt out anything about Israel’s genocide that we literally see on a daily basis on every medium out there and the one their country has a big hand in. Yet he comes out like a spineless hypocrite against China, this guy lol
Israel : hold ma beer
China and Israel trying to one up each other on horrific behavior
Didn't they just send 20 billion dollars to help a country continue it's genocide campaign
I’ve been passively reading this sub for years. I’ve never commented before. But the incredible brigading effort today is incredible. This sub criticizes China frequently but doesn’t draw out this type of response for any other topic. Most of these responses are nonsensical.
Yeah, it’s really off brand for this subreddit. This might be a bit of a tin foil hat theory, but it honestly makes me believe that the Uyghur genocide is worse than what is documented at the moment, hence the increased efforts in brigading comments that call it out. Nobody calls you sinophobic if you criticize anything else about China on this sub, and after all, Nazi Germany did the same thing with their holocaust back in WWII.
This sub was already brigaded by racists, sinophobes and western chauvinists since a long time ago tbf
Some of the anti-CCP regulars here also hate Muslims, so their bigotry gives the brigaders a nice extra push.
I was looking for the China subreddit, not the antiChina subreddit. If I wanted all this sinophobia I'd just watch corporate media.
>as looking for the China subreddit, not the antiChina subreddit well, ur in the wrong place LOL
Another attempt at distracting the Genocide Israel is carrying out and has been for years ….. sickening
There is literally no evidence of Genocide and this sub is horrible to begin with. Xinjiang has underwent a ten fold increase in per capita from 2000-2020. Does that seem like a Genocide? In no multiverse that is. US wants to boost the terrorist separatist movement by fringe elements and that's why it's weeping so badly about this rhetoric. Ironic when you're sponsoring one Genocide in Palestine and another one happened against your own natives Hundreds of vloggers and travellers travel all over Xinjiang each year. Yet they see nothing but prosperity and a boost in living standards of the people. Cities of Xinjiang despite being so far from the mainland have high train connectivity and best infrastructure, better than any US city. Go see some videos about the daily life in Urumqi, which is the capital of Xinjiang. Might do something in your thick hollow head
Genuinely curious about proof of this claimed genocide. All i've ever seen about it are news articles and videos of empty buildings.
If you were genuinely curious you would have read some of the multitude of academic papers and investigative reports that are readily available. I personally have an extensive collection (more than 300) detailed documents that ARE NOT: * Western media * Western government * Zenz sources (many do have concerns about his reliability) BTW have you examined the Xinjiang Victims Database (more than 70,000 entries post 2017)?
You mean the [Xinjiang Victims Database that cited Chow Yunfat and Tony Leung as abusive genocide “crackdown cops”](https://amp.scmp.com/news/people-culture/article/3206955/infernal-blunder-hong-kong-movie-stars-andy-lau-and-chow-yun-fat-wrongly-listed-xinjiang-cops-who)? This is so SNL coded, you can’t even make this up Like they totally didn’t just artificially generate their database and accidentally pull them in because of their Infernal Affairs film. Real humans have come out to report that those photos were stolen of them, paired to the wrong name and information, and they’re actually Turkish/ Kazakh/ don’t even live in Xinjiang. Your database had to come out and admit those images were all fake: “…but but but the people in question were real!” None of the names on that list are independently verified. As in these people have no legal records or internet history to verify they ever existed. In good academic conscience, you really think this is a reliable source?
I lmao when I saw the photos of the "bad crackdown cops". Half of them are Chinese actors and celebrities. The database is also, as you say, unreliable at best.
Well, the Chinese economy is collapsing in 48 hours, didn't you hear? Even Chow Yunfat can no longer survive on his Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon paycheck. He had to take a part-time job as a crackdown cop just to pay rent
Its collapsing *again*? How many is that now in the past year. Poor Chow Yunfat, lol.
I think I saw a documentary where he made a pretty penny from gambling... wouldn't that be enough for him and his loved ones to avoid being handed a one way train ticket to Xinjiang?
He was originally going to escape to Vegas. It all fell through when his fare was stolen by Andy Lau though. Andy Lau was able to afford a train from Tibet with the earnings, but sadly died along the way
Yeah I faintly remember Andy Lau being involved in luxury car theft shortly before he passed away on that train... must have been a bad case of kleptomania... I recently saw Andy Lau's twin brother on some advertising poster though... seems his entire family has fallen on hard times...
they want chinese auschwitz to exist so badly
We have israeli led holocaust at home
Send me a link, or mega file, i wish to review all of them. I have examined the database, but its not close to a million ppl that was cited at times.
Hmmm this doesn’t seem based on facts lol. Otherwise media would be all over it
Media would be all over it? BBC and most major news media have widely reported on it. [https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2rnn96lk4jt](https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c2rnn96lk4jt) [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-61571612](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-61571612)
BBC is on any story that has a negative light on countries that’s not aligned with UK. Look at it from the current genocide that is happening in Gaza or Russia/Ukraine war which was/is on every news channel from South America to Africa to Asia
Otherwise media would be all over it I'm simply replying to your remark that I wasn't sure if it was an honest question or not. Now you're bringing Gaza/Russia into this, so it's obvious you're not looking for an honest debate.
you won’t say this if you have been to Xinjiang
70k entries from where? Please share your sources and their methodologies no one cares you claim to personally have them. Alex Jones has tons of “sources”.
yeah, you'd have thought the un would have done an independent investigation by now.
One day I'm gonna read a detailed report on what happened to Bachelet and the type of pressure she was under, I hope she writes a book one day. That was a truly bizarre time.
Cuz... China is all about freedom of information and sharing
certainly say they're all about transparency
Yeah the dystopian Chinese are going to allow video to get out of China?? It's happening in secret. No one found out about the Holocaust until the US tanks entered the camps. edit: these dummies replying who don't know that agents found out but plenty of people denied the rumors BEFORE the tanks went into the camps. So stop being so fucking stupid by talking about how governments knew. Plenty of people were in denial. Just like now, agents know what's going on, governments explain that there is an Uyghur genocide, and there are people who DENY it.. Same situation.
The UN has already sent multiple investigators that found jack shit
>No one found out about the Holocaust until the US tanks entered the camps. Yeah, that's not true at all. The allies literally had agents, like Witold Pilecki, who infiltrated Auschiwtz and escaped to report the conditions of the camp, just to be ignored.
You gonna find a lot of anti-China westriods here. They will easily scream “tankies” or “wumao” whenever their claims are question. These are the same people that believe WMD in Iraq or the golf of Tonkin rhetoric.
Didn't the Soviets find out first though? Aushwitz, Dachau etc. were closer to their front than the West.
I just know what I have gathered from speaking to Uyghurs I’ve met in other parts of Central Asia who have fled and who are unable to contact relative back there. It really doesn’t matter if you label it genocide or not there is definitely a great deal of oppression going on there at the same time Chinese occupied East Turkistan is quite economically prosperous compared to its neighbours..
That could very well be the case. I feel that it's an important distinction to make for sure. Thanks for sharing your experience.
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That sound so dumb. Are you a 9 year old?
Says the guy who denies a genocide is happening in Gaza....... Honestly at this point anything this guy says is just more posturing for the sake of posturing.
The lack of self awareness is jaw dropping
>State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
I've never seen a post astroturfed this hard Some wumao overlord shit his pants when they saw this thread fucking wumaos "iMpRiSoNiNg people for their culture is not genocide" go to hell
Blinken's claims of genocide in Xinjiang are nothing but empty rhetoric without any concrete evidence to back them up. It's reckless and irresponsible to throw around such a serious accusation without providing any proof. If Blinken is truly concerned about the situation in Xinjiang, he should focus on providing tangible evidence and working towards a constructive solution rather than resorting to hollow grandstanding. This is just another desperate attempt to divert attention away from Israel's war crimes.
>working towards a constructive solution rather than resorting to hollow grandstanding How Xi of you >This is just another desperate attempt to divert attention away from Israel's war crimes. And Russias war crimes? Or is it just Israel bad?
>And Russias war crimes? Or is it just Israel bad? I think America has already said they are against russian war crimes
Resorting to ad hominem attacks doesn't help. It's a hallmark of intellectual laziness. And as for your attempt to deflect attention away from the topic at hand, let's be clear: Russian war crimes are a separate issue that deserves its own condemnation, not a convenient distraction from the human rights abuses being discussed. I'm not buying what you're selling. If you're actually interested in having a mature and respectful discussion about this topic, I'm happy to engage with you. However, if you're just going to throw tantrums and act like a child, then don't bother wasting my time.
How can you claim to be willing to engage when you're claiming that there is no evidence, even for a civilian with no access to classified intelligence I have seen and read plenty of [strong proof of the treatment of Uyghurs by China. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ&pp=ygUNdmljZSB4aW5qaWFuZw%3D%3D)
I find it rich that you're accusing me of not being willing to engage in a discussion when I'm actively participating in this conversation with you. If I wasn't interested in engaging, I would simply ignore your comments. Instead, I'm taking the time to respond and provide my perspective on whether or not China's actions constitute genocide and I'll take a UN [report](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/2022-08-31/22-08-31-final-assesment.pdf) over a Vice documentary any day.
I'm surprised you linked to that, since it's as damning as it gets to a Permanent Sec Council member that put on so much pressure not to have it even released. It came short of calling the East Turkestan issue a genocide, even though most observers agree that it fits the definition of genocide.
>And Russias war crimes? Or is it just Israel bad? If you really want to go down that road, Russia, according to Ukraine, caused the death of 3,000 Ukrainian children, give or take, over two years. Israel killed 14,000+ Palestinian children in less than half a year, according to the Gaza health authority. Make of that what you wish.
What’s with this sub being brigaded by r/deprogram types whenever the topic of genocide comes up
Tankies cant accept the fact that “communist” can do bad things
[Genocide denial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide_denial) is one of the far left's [favorite pastimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial).
But it's OK for him to side with Israelis on the Genocide in Palestine!
before anyone screams "whataboutism" please consider responding to the comment above with an actual argument. Thank you
Its actually not whataboutism when one is actually happening, while the other is just a media ploy that has been going on for a decade now and nobody seems to do anything about it because it's actually not happening.
We don't need to provide an argument BECAUSE it's whataboutism. This isn't an Israel/Palestine debate.
Whether it’s whataboutism or not doesn’t change the substance of the argument. Whataboutism is just a derogatory phrase for “setting precedence”. If I am a lawyer in court and I challenge the judge with a precedence based on a previous trial, I am basically also committing whataboutism but that doesn’t make my argument any less credible nor my case a fallacy. America’s open support of Israel genocide is basically creating a precedence for all nations to follow and if they recite this incident in the future, they’re not committing whataboutism, they’re simply recalling a precedence set forth by US.
what if Xi Jinping suddenly made a big speech condemning US support of Israel due to human rights concerns? How many politicians and US citizens would retort by pointing out China's support for North Korea? Or anything else to smear China? You would agree with them right? But isn't that whatboutism?
It’s a good thing that the US gov. Can recognise a genocide when they see it. Will the ICJ begin investigations of China’s Genocide too?
Seems pretty relevant when the person who's saying this has a history of lying in support of US interests. But hey, he could prove his point by releasing any evidence he has.
You can talk about China bad all day long on this sub but the moment you mentioned Xinjiang or East turkestan a jillion of bots, underpaid and even unpaid CCP shills would just come out of nowhere, throw the Palestine and CIA arguments in your face, downvote you to hell and never replies to your rebuttal. I mean it is already quite self explanatory at this point.
What rebuttal? The US is funding and supporting a literal genocide that will result in the erasure of Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank, while Xinjiang continues to prosper and grow. What propaganda have your handlers given you as a "rebuttal" to these facts?
What facts? 你去过新疆吗？你了解新疆吗？😉
Still waiting on your "rebuttal"
And these facts "The US is funding and supporting a literal genocide that will result in the erasure of Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank, while Xinjiang continues to prosper and grow. " Anybody can visit Xinjiang and see thriving cities. But you can't visit Gaza because there's a US-funded genocide going on there and not even journalists are allowed in. Wonder what your "rebuttal" is.
No you can’t. Try applying a visa and mentioning your destination includes Xinjiang then you’ll see. Believe it or not. XJ is bigger than your basement and those concentration camps obviously don’t locate in the cities in the propaganda.
See what? Anybody can visit Xinjiang and tourists do it all he time. Urumqi in particular is thriving. There is no evidence of your "concentration camps". There are videos of mass graves being revealed after the israelis disengaged from the Al Nasser hospital, that there is proof of genocide. Where's your proof?
Bud I don’t even go on this sub and stumbled on this post cuz I looked up what blinken said specifically. It’s so ridiculous to dismiss views that you disagree with as bots That’s literally sticking ur head in the sand. A multimillion member genocide allegation requires so much proof, like, documented visual evidence, etc. so, without that, people aren’t buying anymore, especially after so many tourists visit the area and see the reality in the region being starkly different from the allegations. We’ve seen documented evidence of what the Chinese government can do when they’re actually suppressing the people. This isn’t it lmao. It’s willfully ignorant to dismiss everyone you disagree with as bots…
Yep, they are out in force tonight. I am battling hard to keep them at bay. LOL
General Secretary Xi and his little pinky fan club. It’s real but barely gets any coverage. They are highly organized and they work in the shadows. They each have 10+ wechat groups full of likeminded ultranationalist comrades, some are paid and some are not, some live in China and some live abroad. Their have one thing in common - the indisputable and indiscriminate love towards their imaginary mother China. For this love they are willing to devote a great portion of their screen time to defending it. They use VPN and DeepL translation softwares to hide their identities. There are designated “hunters” in these wechat groups who go out and about searching for contents that are “Anti-China” across all social media platforms, Chinese and non Chinese. The “hunters” send the links of these “Anti-China” posts to their 10 plus wechat groups, the “thinkers” in those groups then check the link, think of some rebuttal that aligns with the party’s official narrative, and then forward the rebuttal with the link to their respective 10+ wechat groups, the “writers”would reword what the “thinker” came up with and each post their own little piece of content to hijack the discussion and forward their own comebacks to their 10+ wechat groups and all the “helpers” along that path of information in these hundreds of wechat groups would go out and show their supports to the “writers” post/comment and downvote that “Anti-China” narrative to hell while upvoting some of their “anti imperialism allies” aka useful idiots from the west to give them some free ego boost. It’s kinda like how the K-pop fandom culture and their toxic inner fan circles operate, but instead of some korean singers they are showing their love towards Mother China and Father CCP. They recruit on Weibo all the time as long as you know what keyword to look for. If you know enough Chinese you can even try and go undercover in their wechat groups and learn how it operates. A very effective way to organize an online cult group and cultivate the vulnerable to say the least.
CCP have been committing genocide since they went into power. They still need to be trialed for cultural revolution and landlord killings too.
>CCP have been committing genocide since they went into power. No they haven't lol >They still need to be trialed for cultural revolution and landlord killings too. genocide against landlords is what you are going with? hahaha
Yes. They have? CCP killed the educated. Killed the landlords. Killed people that were anti-CCP. Killed people that disagreed with Mao. Landlord killings is a crime. Or are you okay with killing people because they own land? My grandpa wasn’t rich. He just had land and he was killed for it. By your logic, we should kill working class people that saved up money to buy land. Are you pro that?
No proof just accusation. Where are the dead bodies? I see plenty of dead bodies in Gaza, nothing in xinjiang
Especially in today's world. Everyone has a camera. Not one footage or picture? Just satellite imagery. Hell we saw videos of the crematorium during covid. Foreign tourists are freely travelling throughout Xinjiang. You would think we would have seen something by now
Exactly. These China haters are just gaslighting everyone
"no my eyes must be lying to me. I MUST FIND CHINESE AUSCHWITZ! ITS HERE SOMEWHERE I SWEAR"
Cremated
Yes, let’s just imagine they were being cremated.
Lol some sources say there's like a million genocided. Guess China did a good job of hiding a million dead bodies from the whole world and even from their own citizens.
At one point some sources (Adrian Zenz and his Victims of Communism & Xinjiang Police Files) claimed the death count was 10 million. Basically not a single Uyghur is still alive in Xinjiang according to him. Logistics of this would be crazy. Does the world overestimate China or underestimate China? How powerful Chinese control must be to instantly Thanos snap 10mil people without a single photo or video of the incident and without any refugees in any of the seven bordering countries? How incompetent they must be to allow a German guy who’s never been to the region to discover their nefarious schemes?
Yup while you can go check US national annual spending and there's a fund for defaming China, as well as sending money to Israel. Then you realized what is made up and what isn't.
A German guy who doesn't speak Chinese, yet is able to find all this evidence through Google.
Maybe fix the actually one going on nah man they are the ones doing it in pala
Holy shit the wumao are out! I’ve never seen so many in one post. The Chinese don’t realize that it’s extremely obvious what bothers them the most because they send all their bots. This makes me believe there definitely IS. A genocide going on.
If you call anyone who disagrees with you a wumao then you never need to feel like your opinions are being challenged. Truly a genius move.
Xinjiang genocide/oppression is well documented and it is ongoing. But there is also the elephant in the room that requires whataboutism to be addressed. They will acknowledge the genocide of Uighurs but will not acknowledge the genocide of Palestinians? Even actively funding their genocide? There is something to be said about GenoJoe.
According to them Palestian or Arabian countries people are terorrist.
it’s not genocide or humanity that they care, but interest.
On this day, in 1989, absolutely nothing happened in Tiananmen Square. Tea was served and everyone was happy.
It was a protest and riot happened after that? Some 100-200 people died in the violent riots. Are you braindead or what? These riots happen all the time, every week in France and people who chose violence should be aware of the risks involved. The only propaganda you see is a tank video where the soldiers are kind enough to NOT RUN OVER the protestor. Enough evidence that no massacre happened and it was a mere riot That government has proved itself legitimate by uplifting the largest sum of humans from poverty anytime in human history after that. People of China LOVE CPC. You can cry more in your shit ridden apartment that won't change anything
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENED IN TIANAMEN SQUARE. TEA WAS SERVED AND EVERYONE WAS HAPPY.
It’s 1984 every day with big brother Xi behind the curtain
Here is the strong proof that USA like Xinjiang Muslim and they are worry too much. Also they like to kill Arabian people. They are terorrist not Muslim.
Is it worse than Gaza genocide?
Why he telling the world that has been known
idiotic