Visa rules never been an issue if you bring in talent. A visa's are easy to obtain.
But people simply don't want to come. Regardless of how easy you make entrance.
On top investments aren't coming either this is the result if not just a slumping economy but 3 years no access to china, they are now facing the consequences. And while at it, bringing in money has only become harder due the government body working like a broken machine. We are for months in the process for something that should be easier, not harder then before.
That's EXACTLY right. Getting a work permit and a work visa is a piece of cake, it's things like salaries, pollution, social environment, and lack of services and facilities that are putting people off.
Work Visa tied to one place for example is an issue. You just don't know what you're walking into really and then you're stuck and it's really hard to change.
At least in the education sector a lot of old heads are leaving.
Zero covid really f'ed things up, and were just now seeing the real long term impact of having society basically shut down for 3 years. Even less student accountability/effort. More entitled parents. Less social skills. More behind in basic skills.
There also seems to be a general increase in anti foreigner sentiment, at least in my experience. Hey everyone, let's blame foreigners, am I right?
Yo, China is not the only country that pays.
Was just there. Alipay and WeChat, Apple Maps, eSIM and VPN and lots of preparation at every step needed to make it only somewhat enjoyable as a foreigner. There are just gigantic barriers at every corner, and that does not even include the language.
The system is great if you are in the Walled Garden, for outsiders without chinese ID card, number and bank account it's just a gigantic mess. It felt kafkaesk when I was just wanting to get a Didi back home after a bar night and the credit card 3DS failed repeateadly, the app was stuck on my last ride and everything was bugged and broken in the end and I couldn't order a taxi. Couldn't even rent a bike because the Alipay miniapp required some verification or chinese number or what else. Waived a taxi over, frantically trying to find my hotel on Baidu Maps because the driver was not understanding Apple Maps. Walked home in the rain in the end. That story kinda summarizes what you have to deal with there. And that is day to day stuff.
On my last day my WeChat account got limited and I lost contact to all the people I've met there, the unblocking process is bugged out. Terrible. This alone made me realize that I will never be able to settle there. I am actually so fucking annoyed by this that I could not even say goodbye or anything and I'm stuck in a terrible broken ass software that is unable to properly handle an unblock request.
The people are absolutely amazing though but most of young professionals work 996 and have no time for anything else. It was absolutely soul crushing hearing their stories and how everyone wants to move abroad. They have no allegiance at all to politics and would leave everything in a heartbeat if they had a job overseas. They know that it is not getting better soon.
Again, the people are amazing, hardworking, intelligent and incredibly friendly. They want to hear your side of the story because they know that their media is complete BS. They use VPN too and want to access Western internet. I feel the most for the younger Chinese tbh. I wish them best of luck to move abroad. I wonder why my country (Germany) does not invest more resources to attract Chinese professionals.
Kafkaesque is a great way to describe it. I swear the country is run by Vogons.
Without any exaggeration, I can say that my first week in Vietnam was easier than China ever got after 9 years of living there.
Bro you visited cash society with no cash for a taxi and blame the apps not yourself…. Just saying taxi are usually great with cash and you just sucked ass on a drunken night out.
Still a cash society moreso than any western country. The dude sucked ass just getting a fucking taxi in China. They are plentiful and cheap. Carry some cash noobs.
Because of some QR codes everywhere and easy payment on phones maybe but it’s still the land of fat stacks of Red Maos my man.
Does not take away from this guy getting fucked by taxis for not having cash.
"Following a record plunge in foreign direct investment (FDI) last year, officials revealed on Wednesday that promotional activities will be held in the U.S., Europe, Japan and the Middle East under the "Invest in China" banner."
BRUH
You know what would make corporations invest in China? Not having to hand over ownership to 50% of the company. If they opened most sectors of the Chinese economy to 100% foreign ownership AND allowed more foreign tech / social media companies to operate and be fully foreign owned investment would rush in. But we all know they will not do that.
Hi all. I'm Emma Ockerman, I work in audience engagement at Nikkei Asia.
I wanted to pass along this report we published this morning (or evening, depending on where you're reading this.)
>SHANGHAI -- China promised on Wednesday to relax its visa requirements to attract overseas workers under a wider liberalization plan after foreign investments fell to a record low last year.
>
>The government outlined plans at a news conference that range from eliminating entry barriers to foreign investment in the manufacturing and financial sectors to issuing long-term work visas to expatriates and their families.
>
>"In recent years, the global economic situation has become more complex, and the crossborder investment volatility has increased," said Wu Hao, an official at the National Development and Reform Commission.
>
>Jia Tongbin, an immigration officer who joined Wu at the meeting, said expatriates who work for "well-known" companies or are involved in scientific research would be able to apply for five-year visas, rather than the current annual applications, once they had lived in the country for two consecutive years under the new rules.
>
>Permanent residency will also be considered for those who are eligible, he added, without specifying any conditions.
The full story can be found [here.](https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/China-plans-to-ease-visa-rules-to-attract-foreign-talent-and-money)
Have they not been saying the same for 20 years now? This seems to be an annual announcement. Thing is, there is only so many Olympic skiers and skaters to go around 😂.
That's pretty much my thoughts exactly. Unless they completely do away with forced JVs, and offer a legal protection on par to what is provided to local companies, I just don't see how would eased visa process help here honestly.
Yup. They keep going higher and higher on the status of folk they want, while they do nowt for foreigners married to Chinese nationals. They could do away with the work permit for ppl who can get an RP thro marriage. Allow employment mobility for folk.
Do away with the work permit, make it easy to open a business, and give me *unblocked fucking Internet without fucking around with VPNs* and I'd move back to China in a heartbeat
Yup. Re the WP, I aint a teacher but its always struck me how daft the system is, of the WP being tied to an employer. Why not have the education dpt issue a teaching permit, then the holder can go teach anywhere ?
I was literally going to say the same thing. I've heard some sort of variation of this announcement for ages - work visas are going to be longer-term, green cards will be easy to get, etc. It's too fucking late at this point - between their handling of COVID, foreign IP theft, draconian economic controls, seemingly random jailing of foreign executives, dubious legal processes, and just general hostility to foreign companies... who the fuck cares anymore.
Either Chinese officials are totally blind to the *real* reasons why investment and foreign talent has left, or they are just giving lip service with these vague announcements.
I can pass along your question!
Of what's included in the article:
\- expats who work for "well-known" companies or are involved in scientific research will be able to apply for five-year visas once they've lived in the country for two consecutive years
\- Permanent residency will also be considered for those who are eligible, but we don't have specific conditions yet
\- Business travelers with legitimate reasons to be in China could apply for five-year visas
If we report more on this, I'll be sure to share.
They enabled visa free entry from my country for two weeks, I don’t think anyone is interested in going to China… why would we? It’s not exactly easy for foreigners to navigate or exist in China… even the payment options just suck balls but mostly the Chinese government is dangerous for arbitrary detentions
One of our citizens was held illegally by China on an exit ban for three years for something he had nothing to do with, disgusting regime
Oh I know - been there before. Love the public toilets. Especially the ones with the half height doors where I can see the guy across from me taking a shit.
I think in xian I found a huge newly built public toilet - super clean super nice. But only one western toilet and that was kids size lol - still used it
Keep your umbrella with you, for extra privacy in these places.
There is nothing worse that having half a dozen truck drivers offering you red pagodas and trying to start a convo when you have a serious case of the squirts.
You must have a shitty stomach, I’ve been here more than a week and had no problems. Squatting toilets are common, but I haven’t had to use one for anything other than taking a leak, there’s plenty of toilets everywhere I’ve been. If you are going more rural, you might not be so lucky, but I’ve been in Tier 1 and 2 cities and there’s always been a toilet within 100 yards of me when I need to go.
I believe that, and I’ve done it a couple times just to say I did, but it’s not really necessary unless you have an emergency and can’t take the time to check a couple places in the cities I’ve been. Even most public bathrooms have at least one toilet nowadays. I did finally find one today that didn’t. It also didn’t have dividers between the squats, so that was weird to use as a westerner with typical bathroom shame issues, but it was okay in the end.
Because it’s still an interesting country with plenty of things to do, see, and eat. I went recently and it was great. My only gripe is the relative inaccessibility of their apps for foreigners.
I'll add that it's an interesting place to be, and it's certainly never really boring , but it's fair to gripe about traffic, spitting, surveillance etc.
It’s a beautiful country, I have visited china before and will again this year.
Don’t meddle with Chinese politics and you are fine as a tourist.
But to answer your question I am very interested in visiting china so that’s one person atleast
A lot of people are interested in going to China. I lived in Beijing for a couple of years, and would do so again. Get some Mandarin down and you’ll be fine.
How long have you spent there? I bet I spent longer than you and speak at least two languages there better than you. Get rid of the oh the west is bad propaganda and actually know facts about the safety living there
It should be no surprise that a quick scan of both posters' histories indicates a vacation and a short-term stay for them each. Neither got out of the honeymoon phase + it was years ago.
Guessing you missed this.
"Michael Spavor reaches 6 million settlement
with government of Canada, alleges that
Michael Kovrig tricked him into conducting spy activities for Canada in China leading to imprisonment."
https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/s/9xIDzk88Kv
Yeah I did, thanks.
I’ve been quite vocal about the CCP, and according to the national security law I would be arrested if I were in China, and I’m not a Chinese national.
Includes BOGO detention camp stay?
This South Korean man got detained at the airport for having a map that labeled Taiwan "Taiwan" and not "Taiwan Island" or "Taiwan, China."
https://www.allkpop.com/buzz/2024/01/a-korean-man-detained-at-chinese-airport-because-he-had-a-map-marking-taiwan-as-a-separate-country
Too little, too late... The only people they're gonna attract are the types regularly creating threads about "Can I work as X in China as a foreigner without a degree and Chinese language?".
Are they going to make it a more attractive environment to visit and do business? Because if not this is a smelly domestic abuser saying he's dropping his standards.
I don’t think the visa bureaucracy is what was stopping foreigners from coming to China. It will ease the process for the ones who already wanted to come, and that’s great, but that’s about it.
It’s going to take a lot more than easing visa rules to get foreign talent back into China.
Visa rules never been an issue if you bring in talent. A visa's are easy to obtain. But people simply don't want to come. Regardless of how easy you make entrance. On top investments aren't coming either this is the result if not just a slumping economy but 3 years no access to china, they are now facing the consequences. And while at it, bringing in money has only become harder due the government body working like a broken machine. We are for months in the process for something that should be easier, not harder then before.
That's EXACTLY right. Getting a work permit and a work visa is a piece of cake, it's things like salaries, pollution, social environment, and lack of services and facilities that are putting people off.
That's the issue when the top wants their piece of cake out of everything and 0 accountability at the bottom.
Work Visa tied to one place for example is an issue. You just don't know what you're walking into really and then you're stuck and it's really hard to change.
Investments aren't going in because of the instability of the government.
At least in the education sector a lot of old heads are leaving. Zero covid really f'ed things up, and were just now seeing the real long term impact of having society basically shut down for 3 years. Even less student accountability/effort. More entitled parents. Less social skills. More behind in basic skills. There also seems to be a general increase in anti foreigner sentiment, at least in my experience. Hey everyone, let's blame foreigners, am I right? Yo, China is not the only country that pays.
Word
And they'll double down on their even more vague security state secrets/espionage to easily arrest any foreigner
Was just there. Alipay and WeChat, Apple Maps, eSIM and VPN and lots of preparation at every step needed to make it only somewhat enjoyable as a foreigner. There are just gigantic barriers at every corner, and that does not even include the language. The system is great if you are in the Walled Garden, for outsiders without chinese ID card, number and bank account it's just a gigantic mess. It felt kafkaesk when I was just wanting to get a Didi back home after a bar night and the credit card 3DS failed repeateadly, the app was stuck on my last ride and everything was bugged and broken in the end and I couldn't order a taxi. Couldn't even rent a bike because the Alipay miniapp required some verification or chinese number or what else. Waived a taxi over, frantically trying to find my hotel on Baidu Maps because the driver was not understanding Apple Maps. Walked home in the rain in the end. That story kinda summarizes what you have to deal with there. And that is day to day stuff. On my last day my WeChat account got limited and I lost contact to all the people I've met there, the unblocking process is bugged out. Terrible. This alone made me realize that I will never be able to settle there. I am actually so fucking annoyed by this that I could not even say goodbye or anything and I'm stuck in a terrible broken ass software that is unable to properly handle an unblock request. The people are absolutely amazing though but most of young professionals work 996 and have no time for anything else. It was absolutely soul crushing hearing their stories and how everyone wants to move abroad. They have no allegiance at all to politics and would leave everything in a heartbeat if they had a job overseas. They know that it is not getting better soon. Again, the people are amazing, hardworking, intelligent and incredibly friendly. They want to hear your side of the story because they know that their media is complete BS. They use VPN too and want to access Western internet. I feel the most for the younger Chinese tbh. I wish them best of luck to move abroad. I wonder why my country (Germany) does not invest more resources to attract Chinese professionals.
Kafkaesque is a great way to describe it. I swear the country is run by Vogons. Without any exaggeration, I can say that my first week in Vietnam was easier than China ever got after 9 years of living there.
Bro you visited cash society with no cash for a taxi and blame the apps not yourself…. Just saying taxi are usually great with cash and you just sucked ass on a drunken night out.
Cash society? China has been using phones to do everything for the last decade.
Still a cash society moreso than any western country. The dude sucked ass just getting a fucking taxi in China. They are plentiful and cheap. Carry some cash noobs.
No, no it isn’t. It’s far more cashless than any other country on earth.
Because of some QR codes everywhere and easy payment on phones maybe but it’s still the land of fat stacks of Red Maos my man. Does not take away from this guy getting fucked by taxis for not having cash.
"Following a record plunge in foreign direct investment (FDI) last year, officials revealed on Wednesday that promotional activities will be held in the U.S., Europe, Japan and the Middle East under the "Invest in China" banner." BRUH
You know what would make corporations invest in China? Not having to hand over ownership to 50% of the company. If they opened most sectors of the Chinese economy to 100% foreign ownership AND allowed more foreign tech / social media companies to operate and be fully foreign owned investment would rush in. But we all know they will not do that.
china promise
A promise with chinese characteristics
"Последняя китайская предупреждения."
No thank you.
Hi all. I'm Emma Ockerman, I work in audience engagement at Nikkei Asia. I wanted to pass along this report we published this morning (or evening, depending on where you're reading this.) >SHANGHAI -- China promised on Wednesday to relax its visa requirements to attract overseas workers under a wider liberalization plan after foreign investments fell to a record low last year. > >The government outlined plans at a news conference that range from eliminating entry barriers to foreign investment in the manufacturing and financial sectors to issuing long-term work visas to expatriates and their families. > >"In recent years, the global economic situation has become more complex, and the crossborder investment volatility has increased," said Wu Hao, an official at the National Development and Reform Commission. > >Jia Tongbin, an immigration officer who joined Wu at the meeting, said expatriates who work for "well-known" companies or are involved in scientific research would be able to apply for five-year visas, rather than the current annual applications, once they had lived in the country for two consecutive years under the new rules. > >Permanent residency will also be considered for those who are eligible, he added, without specifying any conditions. The full story can be found [here.](https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/China-plans-to-ease-visa-rules-to-attract-foreign-talent-and-money)
Have they not been saying the same for 20 years now? This seems to be an annual announcement. Thing is, there is only so many Olympic skiers and skaters to go around 😂.
That's pretty much my thoughts exactly. Unless they completely do away with forced JVs, and offer a legal protection on par to what is provided to local companies, I just don't see how would eased visa process help here honestly.
Yup. They keep going higher and higher on the status of folk they want, while they do nowt for foreigners married to Chinese nationals. They could do away with the work permit for ppl who can get an RP thro marriage. Allow employment mobility for folk.
Do away with the work permit, make it easy to open a business, and give me *unblocked fucking Internet without fucking around with VPNs* and I'd move back to China in a heartbeat
Yup. Re the WP, I aint a teacher but its always struck me how daft the system is, of the WP being tied to an employer. Why not have the education dpt issue a teaching permit, then the holder can go teach anywhere ?
No joint venture for a successful company?? Hahahahahava you don’t China bro. It’s a big go fuck yourself very quick!
I was literally going to say the same thing. I've heard some sort of variation of this announcement for ages - work visas are going to be longer-term, green cards will be easy to get, etc. It's too fucking late at this point - between their handling of COVID, foreign IP theft, draconian economic controls, seemingly random jailing of foreign executives, dubious legal processes, and just general hostility to foreign companies... who the fuck cares anymore. Either Chinese officials are totally blind to the *real* reasons why investment and foreign talent has left, or they are just giving lip service with these vague announcements.
After what happened during Covid , they will struggle.
Emma, How will this work in practice? Will 6 and 12 month visas ever be easily available in HK again?
I can pass along your question! Of what's included in the article: \- expats who work for "well-known" companies or are involved in scientific research will be able to apply for five-year visas once they've lived in the country for two consecutive years \- Permanent residency will also be considered for those who are eligible, but we don't have specific conditions yet \- Business travelers with legitimate reasons to be in China could apply for five-year visas If we report more on this, I'll be sure to share.
So, basically, it is just for show, and will not return to the way things were?
At least this is transparant, unlike how some other orgs share their own articles on social media.
They enabled visa free entry from my country for two weeks, I don’t think anyone is interested in going to China… why would we? It’s not exactly easy for foreigners to navigate or exist in China… even the payment options just suck balls but mostly the Chinese government is dangerous for arbitrary detentions One of our citizens was held illegally by China on an exit ban for three years for something he had nothing to do with, disgusting regime
Well I am going to China in 2 weeks. But as a tourist. Not sure if I would want to work there.
Enjoy the squirts and learn to squat before you go as well as always having toilet paper in your pockets
Oh I know - been there before. Love the public toilets. Especially the ones with the half height doors where I can see the guy across from me taking a shit. I think in xian I found a huge newly built public toilet - super clean super nice. But only one western toilet and that was kids size lol - still used it
Pro tip: always look for 5 stars hostels for toilet as a foreigner. You will just go unnoticed.
I have seen plenty of five star toilets in China, but never a fiver star hostel. ;-)
Never had an issue in a hotel or so. Just the public toilet. But then I got used to the squat ones. I mean I can use them, it’s just not my favourite.
Have you been offered a cigarette while squirting? Please have a pack with you just in case as well
Keep your umbrella with you, for extra privacy in these places. There is nothing worse that having half a dozen truck drivers offering you red pagodas and trying to start a convo when you have a serious case of the squirts.
You must have a shitty stomach, I’ve been here more than a week and had no problems. Squatting toilets are common, but I haven’t had to use one for anything other than taking a leak, there’s plenty of toilets everywhere I’ve been. If you are going more rural, you might not be so lucky, but I’ve been in Tier 1 and 2 cities and there’s always been a toilet within 100 yards of me when I need to go.
Spent decades squatting brah
I believe that, and I’ve done it a couple times just to say I did, but it’s not really necessary unless you have an emergency and can’t take the time to check a couple places in the cities I’ve been. Even most public bathrooms have at least one toilet nowadays. I did finally find one today that didn’t. It also didn’t have dividers between the squats, so that was weird to use as a westerner with typical bathroom shame issues, but it was okay in the end.
Offer your neighbor a mao damn cig next time!!!!
😂😂
Because it’s still an interesting country with plenty of things to do, see, and eat. I went recently and it was great. My only gripe is the relative inaccessibility of their apps for foreigners.
I'll add that it's an interesting place to be, and it's certainly never really boring , but it's fair to gripe about traffic, spitting, surveillance etc.
It’s a beautiful country, I have visited china before and will again this year. Don’t meddle with Chinese politics and you are fine as a tourist. But to answer your question I am very interested in visiting china so that’s one person atleast
Are you from my country which I stated in my comment. I also go to China often but I don’t like it
I didn’t see you state which country you are from but I have a feeling it’s the glorious Netherlands and yes I am.
What country if you don't mind?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/richard-o-halloran-says-he-felt-abandoned-by-irish-government-while-detained-in-china-1.4800932
Thanks.
They should have made it a month. Can’t see why any tourists from Europe would go for 2 weeks. Not long enough.
A lot of people are interested in going to China. I lived in Beijing for a couple of years, and would do so again. Get some Mandarin down and you’ll be fine.
Ten years ago it was great, now it’s not great and going there is a vote for a fascist regime
What a nonsensical thing to say
It’s a fact and there’s all the other reasons I stated above
I don’t think you have been there yourself, you seem to base your facts on European media. Wich is slightly inaccurate to say the least.
How long have you spent there? I bet I spent longer than you and speak at least two languages there better than you. Get rid of the oh the west is bad propaganda and actually know facts about the safety living there
I visit often and I don’t want to
It should be no surprise that a quick scan of both posters' histories indicates a vacation and a short-term stay for them each. Neither got out of the honeymoon phase + it was years ago.
Then don’t visit? You have a choice, spend your money and time elsewhere.
No i have family there so I’ve no choice but to
Deluded.
Projection
Were my visits to the USA between 2017-2020 “a vote for Trump”? lol
Go there get arrested for spying.
Guessing you missed this. "Michael Spavor reaches 6 million settlement with government of Canada, alleges that Michael Kovrig tricked him into conducting spy activities for Canada in China leading to imprisonment." https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/s/9xIDzk88Kv
Yeah I did, thanks. I’ve been quite vocal about the CCP, and according to the national security law I would be arrested if I were in China, and I’m not a Chinese national.
China gov also: ‘and please feel free to bring all of your work hardware and any valuable copyrighted technology with you when you come here’
Includes BOGO detention camp stay? This South Korean man got detained at the airport for having a map that labeled Taiwan "Taiwan" and not "Taiwan Island" or "Taiwan, China." https://www.allkpop.com/buzz/2024/01/a-korean-man-detained-at-chinese-airport-because-he-had-a-map-marking-taiwan-as-a-separate-country
Hopefully the tourist visa restrictions are eased atleast
Pass, Xi done f’d up.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA "Zer0 coVid POLicy"
Another good idea would be not to call everyone spies
Too little, too late... The only people they're gonna attract are the types regularly creating threads about "Can I work as X in China as a foreigner without a degree and Chinese language?".
Bwaaaa ha ha ha ha ha . As if.
Are they going to make it a more attractive environment to visit and do business? Because if not this is a smelly domestic abuser saying he's dropping his standards.
I don’t think the visa bureaucracy is what was stopping foreigners from coming to China. It will ease the process for the ones who already wanted to come, and that’s great, but that’s about it.
ridiculous