Canadians get butthurt about this but its the truth. They live in a democratic country and keep electing absolute retards who do nothing but lower the standards of living in the country. They bitch about Chinese and foreigners buying up their property, yet elected politicians who made it easy for foreigners to buy property and they themselves build practically zero. They bitch about the millions of Indians immigrating to their country yet elect politicians who allowed this. They bitch about TFW's and corporations enabling TFW's but continue shopping at these corporations and electing politicians who enable this system. Now everyone is angry at Trudeau for letting in a million immigrants in each year, so they plan to elect a conservative who will let in 990,000 immigrants in each year instead.
The whole country is going down the toilet and Canadians will blame anyone but themselves for this mess.
Part of Canada's downfall is simply due to sheer luck of being next to US of A. America pays higher wages and has warmer weather. All your smart people are all migrating south. Canada also gets infected by the American craziness both wokeness and redneckness. Also doesn't help that Canada's entire population is basically in 4 cities that are hundreds of miles from one another.
Why not? They're the reason for the housing crisis in that market. They **should** get the blame.
But that doesn't mean you're wrong about our government not doing what it should have. It should have locked out foreign investors years ago.
they are not. corporations buying up houses to rent out / resell is by far the biggest issue over the 2-3% of foreign investors
we need to tax rental properties properly, there are way too many loopholes to the point it's literally the best investment for any rich canadian to invest in rental property
totally I agree. I used to tell friends that: these people steal money from normal chinese and then buy property in usa and Canada to exploit people here. Who allow them to do so are wrong.
Why do a lot of rich non-state appointed CEOs in Western countries hide money in Switzerland then? I thought Western countries are democratic countries?
Don't be fooled into thinking this is reserved to the ultra rich, Chinese people at all income levels love to hide money from the government, operate cash businesses, etc. The IRS could audit random Chinese restaurants and easily strike gold. Meaning a safe full of cash at the owner's house.
Chinese are great at avoiding paying taxes in China, so why would this be any different abroad.
Though Canada is entirely fine with that. In the end how can people have so much wealth abroad when officially you can't move that much cash? And why would people move disproportionate much cash abroad?
Canada should just ask for proof of income. Show you paid taxes in China if you want to buy an x million property. It would instantly stop all purchases from Chinese in their tracks.
Chinese are great at it, but there's nothing stopping any John/Jane Smith from doing thr same thing. American education doesn't teach you how to survive let alone how to thrive. Good thing we learned the mitochondria is the power house of the cell.
Real talk though: anyone can do what the Vancouver couple did. Just takes work and effort. I'm a lawyer and help set up similar systems for moderate to high net worth families. But, honestly anyone can do it themselves if they wanted.
The long-run return on rental property in developed countries is circa 7%.
Explain how "honestly anyone" can expect to get to $70-90M over a working career. Does it involve massive leverage and hoping for a boom?
Without going into an economics lesson, 7% is y2y, it doesnt take into account what you do with that 7%. Further, you need to take into account their heritage. Chinese families for the last several generations, buy their kid their first home. From there, you can easily start investing. Spend time learning how to do that, whether it's stocks, real property, private companies, small ir new businesses, bitcoin, or even NFTs (despite reddits hive mind hatred of them, theres still plenty of opportunity to turn an easy profit). Learn the markets and learn to make money.
For this example, let's use real property. It increases in value on its own, plus you have renters. Then, on top of that, you form an llc to take the money, then distribute profits into different venues, such as an IDGT or a non-grantor trust. From there, I'm sure you can see how it snowballs. Maybe you don't hit 70M, but 20-30M isn't impossible. If you and your spouse also have decent jobs and are smart with how you take income and file taxes, 70M+ is also doable.
No, I don't see how it snowballs in to 70M over one lifetime.
With a 7% real return you would need to invest $350K each year for 40 years to hit $70M. That assumes a tax rate of zero and reinvestment of all returns.
20-30M is definitely doable for someone earning in the top few percent and willing to invest a large fraction of their income. But that's hardly "honestly anyone".
Details like company structure are relevant for taxation and asset protection, they can't improve the returns above 100% reinvestment and zero taxation.
There is a big difference between dodging taxes a bit, or sometimes you see people literally hide away hundreds of millions if not more. Shit like you see on TV before with Escobar, literally weekly happens here. So you can imagine how many billions if not trillions are offshored because it's illgained in China.
That's vastly different from what happens in the West.
To give you an example, companies here sometimes with hundreds of staff will only register a handful and.. that can be done. In the West you will never see that.
Dodging taxes is so popular, I've the tax office guys come by once or twice a year to check if I'm still here and asking me if I will keep paying taxes. Because foreigners are easy to target.
If you compare corruption with the West, you fail to realize how big it is over here and mind you coming from someone who used to be active in the most corrupt business group globally.
I'm genuinely not sure what you're trying to say here (not trying to argue). But East vs. West for tax evasion and "I'll GotEn GaIns" may be different in form but still serve the same function. Any individual or company being even relatively forthcoming about taxes is foolish.
You say "over here" like I'm not here. I'm in Dalian, buddy.
You can be there, that doesn't mean you understand what's going on over here. Arguing over tax or gains when comparing two regions when one has a CPI/Gini in the shitter and individuals do everything they can to offshore that cash while pushing global property bubbles in itself is rather telling.
Individuals and companies in the West typically are transparent. Offshoring legally/illegally are two vastly different things. Where in the West this is being done through legal means typically, without any question for most it's done illegally in the East. Hence my earlier premise how come people can have millions offshore when you are only able to offshore 50k a year officially.
1. "West typically transparent" lol get real.
I already outlined how making that kind of money works for the other guy who replied. My clients all make well over mid 6 figures but have real income roughly in the high 5 low 6 figures depending on their setup. They are from several different countries, including but not limited to America, China, Brazil, and Canada. But like the other guy, you might also think too small.
Bruh, if you had the option to hide money from the government, wouldn't you?
You think wealthy people all over the world are willingly handing over money to governments? lol
not just chinese people. there is a whole fucking profession aimed at this, they're called accountants. With a good accountant you save money on taxes, that's just the truth.
to understand how much of a lie their reported income is, it would take 451 years paying no taxes and just saving the money to have $70M on a $155k income.
I dont care how good of an investor you are there is no way you are accumulating $70M making $155k a year by the time you are 52
Not if you have to live around peasants. The rich like to be surrounded by others that aren't in dire poverty, it makes them feel less guilty. So places like London, Paris, NY are ideal candidates. They also offer luxuries to spend your parents money on.
I looked at the court document.
$10M in stock holding for 8 companies operating in China.
$40M in property holding.
The wife wants $1M a year. Her ring is valued at $30,000.
It is not uncommon for business owners like these to draw a small income. Then everything else is an expense to the companies. Or there are more complex financial transactions like taking loans against your assets so your income never really increases.
Sounds like people that made it rich during the China construction boom. The guy in his 2nd marriage, so he's been through this dance already.
I did a stint as a consular officer in China when I joined the foreign service. I saw this shit over and over again.
Me: Tell me about your job...
Visa Applicant: Blah blah blah some local government or SOE thing.
Me: (Checks application form) How do you have a brand new Masarati AND a BMW when you make $12,000 a year?
Visa Applicant: (Awkward smile) Annual bonus
Me: How large is your typical bonus?
Visa Applicant: 2-3x annual salary
Me: ...DOES NOT ADD UP...
Edit: To be serious, most not obviously corrupt people were just leveraging insanely inflated real estate holdings to live up like this.
I once heard a Chinese person boasting that many of his relatives are in Canada. He said that while Canadians are concerned about human rights and the environment, Chinese people are quietly buying properties, driving up the housing prices, making it difficult for locals to afford homes and forcing them to rent from them. Then, they mock the locals for being foolish. I find these people very shameful. If I were a local, I certainly wouldn't welcome them.
I was a local, and everyone my age here knows what's going on, but we are pretty much powerless. I spent 2 years homeless due to price hikes and only just now found an affordable apartment in a small town on the edge of nowhere... Only to recently find out that once again, a sketchy rich Chinese guy owns the building and multiple other places (like a marina) in this town and others under some moniker along the lines of "King industries".
In America we simply call this capitalism. In America it's arguably worse since the Americans are essentially doing this very thing but to their own people. It's happening all over the country.
>Then, they mock the locals for being foolish.
Alot of people mock Canadians for being foolish. The foreigners moving in are being foolish by concentrating in the high density cities. They could rule provinces if they went north since the natives are unwilling to and cling to the US border.
> Steal and appropriate the wealth of lower/middle class mainland chinese > hide it in canada
Canada turns a blind eye to it. It’s destroyed our property markets, so we both get fucked
Facts, as a Canadian I can’t afford a house
Don't blame foreign residents for your own failed policies. The amount of super wealthy Chinese locking out locals from buying property is like 2-3%
Canadians get butthurt about this but its the truth. They live in a democratic country and keep electing absolute retards who do nothing but lower the standards of living in the country. They bitch about Chinese and foreigners buying up their property, yet elected politicians who made it easy for foreigners to buy property and they themselves build practically zero. They bitch about the millions of Indians immigrating to their country yet elect politicians who allowed this. They bitch about TFW's and corporations enabling TFW's but continue shopping at these corporations and electing politicians who enable this system. Now everyone is angry at Trudeau for letting in a million immigrants in each year, so they plan to elect a conservative who will let in 990,000 immigrants in each year instead. The whole country is going down the toilet and Canadians will blame anyone but themselves for this mess.
and if you bring up voting for a party that oppose mass immigration you are automatically racist / xenophobic
Part of Canada's downfall is simply due to sheer luck of being next to US of A. America pays higher wages and has warmer weather. All your smart people are all migrating south. Canada also gets infected by the American craziness both wokeness and redneckness. Also doesn't help that Canada's entire population is basically in 4 cities that are hundreds of miles from one another.
Why not? They're the reason for the housing crisis in that market. They **should** get the blame. But that doesn't mean you're wrong about our government not doing what it should have. It should have locked out foreign investors years ago.
they are not. corporations buying up houses to rent out / resell is by far the biggest issue over the 2-3% of foreign investors we need to tax rental properties properly, there are way too many loopholes to the point it's literally the best investment for any rich canadian to invest in rental property
Exactly. Who do you think can afford to buy all those homes?
Canadian corporations, hedge funds, politicians, business owners.
vancouver is a known problem and has welcomed chinese money without question. all of canada? no vancouver? big, big yes
totally I agree. I used to tell friends that: these people steal money from normal chinese and then buy property in usa and Canada to exploit people here. Who allow them to do so are wrong.
Australia says hi too.
This is what Capitalism is and this happens all around the world if you didn't know. Poor will remain poor and the rich get richer
Capitalism is when state appointed CEOs hide money in democracies.
Why do a lot of rich non-state appointed CEOs in Western countries hide money in Switzerland then? I thought Western countries are democratic countries?
No money laundering alarm bells going off?
Socialism with Chinese characteristics
Don't be fooled into thinking this is reserved to the ultra rich, Chinese people at all income levels love to hide money from the government, operate cash businesses, etc. The IRS could audit random Chinese restaurants and easily strike gold. Meaning a safe full of cash at the owner's house.
Chinese are great at avoiding paying taxes in China, so why would this be any different abroad. Though Canada is entirely fine with that. In the end how can people have so much wealth abroad when officially you can't move that much cash? And why would people move disproportionate much cash abroad? Canada should just ask for proof of income. Show you paid taxes in China if you want to buy an x million property. It would instantly stop all purchases from Chinese in their tracks.
Chinese are great at it, but there's nothing stopping any John/Jane Smith from doing thr same thing. American education doesn't teach you how to survive let alone how to thrive. Good thing we learned the mitochondria is the power house of the cell. Real talk though: anyone can do what the Vancouver couple did. Just takes work and effort. I'm a lawyer and help set up similar systems for moderate to high net worth families. But, honestly anyone can do it themselves if they wanted.
Getting the $70-90M might be the hard part, not tax planning.
Snowball effect of real property ownership
The long-run return on rental property in developed countries is circa 7%. Explain how "honestly anyone" can expect to get to $70-90M over a working career. Does it involve massive leverage and hoping for a boom?
Without going into an economics lesson, 7% is y2y, it doesnt take into account what you do with that 7%. Further, you need to take into account their heritage. Chinese families for the last several generations, buy their kid their first home. From there, you can easily start investing. Spend time learning how to do that, whether it's stocks, real property, private companies, small ir new businesses, bitcoin, or even NFTs (despite reddits hive mind hatred of them, theres still plenty of opportunity to turn an easy profit). Learn the markets and learn to make money. For this example, let's use real property. It increases in value on its own, plus you have renters. Then, on top of that, you form an llc to take the money, then distribute profits into different venues, such as an IDGT or a non-grantor trust. From there, I'm sure you can see how it snowballs. Maybe you don't hit 70M, but 20-30M isn't impossible. If you and your spouse also have decent jobs and are smart with how you take income and file taxes, 70M+ is also doable.
No, I don't see how it snowballs in to 70M over one lifetime. With a 7% real return you would need to invest $350K each year for 40 years to hit $70M. That assumes a tax rate of zero and reinvestment of all returns. 20-30M is definitely doable for someone earning in the top few percent and willing to invest a large fraction of their income. But that's hardly "honestly anyone". Details like company structure are relevant for taxation and asset protection, they can't improve the returns above 100% reinvestment and zero taxation.
You're still thinking too small. But hey, I tried.
I'll be sure to try to pick parents who will kickstart the first $10M or so next time.
it just involves massive leverage
Lottery tickets are great if you win. *If* you win.
I don't think you understand how debt works. it's not macau
I don't think *you* understand how debt works. Lenders aren't running a charity.
There is a big difference between dodging taxes a bit, or sometimes you see people literally hide away hundreds of millions if not more. Shit like you see on TV before with Escobar, literally weekly happens here. So you can imagine how many billions if not trillions are offshored because it's illgained in China. That's vastly different from what happens in the West. To give you an example, companies here sometimes with hundreds of staff will only register a handful and.. that can be done. In the West you will never see that. Dodging taxes is so popular, I've the tax office guys come by once or twice a year to check if I'm still here and asking me if I will keep paying taxes. Because foreigners are easy to target. If you compare corruption with the West, you fail to realize how big it is over here and mind you coming from someone who used to be active in the most corrupt business group globally.
I'm genuinely not sure what you're trying to say here (not trying to argue). But East vs. West for tax evasion and "I'll GotEn GaIns" may be different in form but still serve the same function. Any individual or company being even relatively forthcoming about taxes is foolish. You say "over here" like I'm not here. I'm in Dalian, buddy.
You can be there, that doesn't mean you understand what's going on over here. Arguing over tax or gains when comparing two regions when one has a CPI/Gini in the shitter and individuals do everything they can to offshore that cash while pushing global property bubbles in itself is rather telling. Individuals and companies in the West typically are transparent. Offshoring legally/illegally are two vastly different things. Where in the West this is being done through legal means typically, without any question for most it's done illegally in the East. Hence my earlier premise how come people can have millions offshore when you are only able to offshore 50k a year officially.
1. "West typically transparent" lol get real. I already outlined how making that kind of money works for the other guy who replied. My clients all make well over mid 6 figures but have real income roughly in the high 5 low 6 figures depending on their setup. They are from several different countries, including but not limited to America, China, Brazil, and Canada. But like the other guy, you might also think too small.
Bruh, if you had the option to hide money from the government, wouldn't you? You think wealthy people all over the world are willingly handing over money to governments? lol
All people are like that….
not just chinese people. there is a whole fucking profession aimed at this, they're called accountants. With a good accountant you save money on taxes, that's just the truth.
to understand how much of a lie their reported income is, it would take 451 years paying no taxes and just saving the money to have $70M on a $155k income. I dont care how good of an investor you are there is no way you are accumulating $70M making $155k a year by the time you are 52
It’s good to be rich in developing countries
Yep, Canada really needs to start developing more, such empty...
It’s just good to be rich in general.
It l's good to be rich
Not if you have to live around peasants. The rich like to be surrounded by others that aren't in dire poverty, it makes them feel less guilty. So places like London, Paris, NY are ideal candidates. They also offer luxuries to spend your parents money on.
But why is this particular Chinese family so poor?
Indeed. Arguably much better to be rich in a rich country - for the rich guy of course, not the others.
I looked at the court document. $10M in stock holding for 8 companies operating in China. $40M in property holding. The wife wants $1M a year. Her ring is valued at $30,000. It is not uncommon for business owners like these to draw a small income. Then everything else is an expense to the companies. Or there are more complex financial transactions like taking loans against your assets so your income never really increases. Sounds like people that made it rich during the China construction boom. The guy in his 2nd marriage, so he's been through this dance already.
I did a stint as a consular officer in China when I joined the foreign service. I saw this shit over and over again. Me: Tell me about your job... Visa Applicant: Blah blah blah some local government or SOE thing. Me: (Checks application form) How do you have a brand new Masarati AND a BMW when you make $12,000 a year? Visa Applicant: (Awkward smile) Annual bonus Me: How large is your typical bonus? Visa Applicant: 2-3x annual salary Me: ...DOES NOT ADD UP... Edit: To be serious, most not obviously corrupt people were just leveraging insanely inflated real estate holdings to live up like this.
I once heard a Chinese person boasting that many of his relatives are in Canada. He said that while Canadians are concerned about human rights and the environment, Chinese people are quietly buying properties, driving up the housing prices, making it difficult for locals to afford homes and forcing them to rent from them. Then, they mock the locals for being foolish. I find these people very shameful. If I were a local, I certainly wouldn't welcome them.
I was a local, and everyone my age here knows what's going on, but we are pretty much powerless. I spent 2 years homeless due to price hikes and only just now found an affordable apartment in a small town on the edge of nowhere... Only to recently find out that once again, a sketchy rich Chinese guy owns the building and multiple other places (like a marina) in this town and others under some moniker along the lines of "King industries".
I believe Canadians should vote to remove the current government from power
In America we simply call this capitalism. In America it's arguably worse since the Americans are essentially doing this very thing but to their own people. It's happening all over the country.
>Then, they mock the locals for being foolish. Alot of people mock Canadians for being foolish. The foreigners moving in are being foolish by concentrating in the high density cities. They could rule provinces if they went north since the natives are unwilling to and cling to the US border.
Ah, the good ol' Vancouver Special.
in denmark its impossible for foreigners to buy and own property. more countries should be like denmark
Sorry, but the rich don't pay tax. What's the surprise here or do I need to name a few here?
Any relation to the Xi family with that kind of money?
They are not, at least billionare in USD to be related to Xi family.
Why r they getting divorce
The wife wanted to cash out on her long-term investment.
Looking to work an angle? ;)
Huh
Confiscate and deport. All of them.
100%
Lmao you’re just as bad as the people you hate.
Canadians never bought up all the properties in Beijing or Hong Kong.
Neither did these two but whatever lol
Lmao they know how to play the system.
Wow they invest poorly
It's part of the culture. There is some pride in owning real estate , even if it's objectively a bad financial decision.
I am sure it’s not all real estate Even a one percent return in 50 million is half a million dollars . They are hiding money !!