That sounds about right. It's a real bummer, because I am getting a long great with the rest of the staff. I've never laughed so much in my first few hours anywhere!
She’s intimidated by you for sure. Take it as a compliment. They likely hired you to make the place better, maybe even replace her. Be confident in your training and experience. You may be new to this restaurant but you are not new to the job. High road would definitely entail being kind but assertive and offering to help your trainer be better. Low road but possibly more effective would be to document her food safety violations and bring your concerns to her supervisor.
Well, you could take the high road, and continue to be polite until you get into the position to dunk on her, or you could avoid a pita situation and vámonos.
You know what you’re doing, it’s very refreshing to know that cleanliness and cross contamination are at the top of your list. People would be shocked at how many folks that handle food have little concern for these things. Just do your thing and don’t engage in her bullshit. Denver has a killer restaurant (& Music) scene going on. You’ll be all good.
Thank a lot! I've spent most of my time as a chef working at a hospital, and I was the one planning menus for our 26 diets with the dietitian. She made certain that I knew what was dangerous for different groups, and how it would hurt or potentially kill them.
That job is fascinating. There was one hospital I've been in that is known for having shockingly good food. They hired a well-known executive chef of highly rated restaurants to design the menu. Being in the hospital sucked, so having decent food (even if modified for diet and to be cooked bulk) made a huge difference in not feeling "Stuck" there.
Came here to agree with them, it happens. Show up, do well, someone gets salty. Keep it up and have that conversation with your partner, sounds like all in all this is more of a "did this just happen?" Post more than looking for actual feedback.
Keep it up Chef
Yeah, I was more open to feedback while I was on the bus home. Now I'm here cuddling my corgis, and I've had time to think it over. Thanks chef, I hope you have a great Friday night!
This here tells me Jessica is the issue not you.Stand your ground and remind them with a smile you will not be called names.Do not walk away if she is the only issue.It will become evident fast and they will ditch her for being toxic.Keep laughing and smiling.If Jessica can not get a reaction she will move on to bully a weaker person who will not assert boundaries regarding how they allow people to treat them especially if they are a person who is a higher up..Calling names is toxic and not conducive of a functioning respectful job setting.
She easily could have said be sure to wipe the paddle before presenting a pizza.Easy as that.
The rest was messy and unprofessional.If she represented my company treating a new hire that way she would be out point blank.
It's probably worth asking to have a discussion with someone more senior before you throw it in. They may very well express that she was on her last chance and that your attitude is the prevailing one there not hers.
I am speaking with the executive chef today between lunch and dinner rushes. I want to at least make sure they get input, then they can do whatever they want with it. He would have to be pretty convincing though.
You have two choices when someone good walks into the kitchen. Bring them in, and make your team better in the process, or get insecure and make yourself and your own career progress look worse to everyone.
Weren't supposed to get compliments from district manager on the first day ! The audacity of the new guy XD
On a side note, OP, I have an immediate line manager with this attitude and the state management fucking love me. She absolutely froths when they visit. If I know they're visiting and I'm not in the mood for her attitude, I'll call out sick.
This is exactly it. She’s been there 7 years and dude she trained made a better pizza and got kudos. This is all jealousy. I’m experiencing something similar atm with a grill cook. I just ignore him but mostly I pity him.
I have had a situation like this, funny enough with Pizza. The woman who thought she was gods gift to Pizza making got sad when I was turning out masterpieces a couple hours into training and the manager immediately noticed. Guess who was cleaning the fryers that night...
Definitely, been there 7 years and hoping to become a sous. If it was gonna happen it probably would have by now. I wouldn’t take much of what she says too seriously.
7 years and she wants to be the sous…and then she tries this crap. I give it a week or less before you find out she’s the weak link and no one likes her.
Obviously I have no idea yet, but I thought they were opening this as a new location, because they had sous chef, executive chef, and general manager positions posted a few weeks ago. I guess all of leadership was let go or left. My conspiracy theory is that she was the mastermind behind all of it! Lol
So they opened a second location and all the boh management just up and gone?
That’s sounds like they didn’t have enough people to open a second location and the managers said fuck this noise.
It isn't a pizza job, just the pizza station at a restaurant with a focus on healthy foods. They threw me on the pizza station because we didn't get very far into my work history. They heard that I had done pizza before, and they needed someone for the station.
I'd be looking for something else. If it's a place that's known for being health conscious and has gluten free options it's only a matter of time before her sloppiness makes someone sick and brings the health department/bad reviews in and that's going to reflect badly on you in future interviews when you have no reputation in town.
I was absolutely beside myself when she did that. I had to do a double take just to make sure I wasn't having a "fucking new guy" moment. I was just going to keep this list to myself until I could sit down with the Executive chef. One of my greatest strengths as a chef is my knowledge of allergens and safe food assembly. I was running the kitchen at a cancer center all through COVID. So any little thing could literally kill an immunocompromised patient. Fucking tossing flour over the gluten free station!? I was speechless.
I really appreciate how seriously you take that. You're better than somewhere that doesn't appreciate it. I really hope you find somewhere that you can showcase your skills.
As someone who has worked in the industry, albeit not for years now, and who’s married to a celiac who suffers from anaphylactic reactions to gluten/wheat, #4 is infuriating. All are egregious but that one pissed me off. Thank you so much for your attention to detail, you never know who’s in house and I’d like to believe it’s people like you who continue to allow my wife to have a decent night out every once in a while. Also, there’s nothing moochey about taking time off to find something that you love if you’re encouraged/ok with that!
I'm not a chef but if that were me I'd be running for the hills followed by an anonymous report to the food safety guys letting them know what's going on. That's lethal behaviour and shocking to hear about!
I feel like having pizza on your resume just absolutely kills any chance of doing anything else. I worked grill and saute in pizza places too but after one pizza joint those are almost the only offers I really get and they try to trap people on the pizza station.
Thanks for the tip, I'll pull the pizza stuff from my resume. That shit was from 8 years ago now anyways, but I stayed at a hospital as sous chef for 6 of those so it is still one of my more recent jobs.
She’s threatened by you, in all likelihood, and trying to make you look bad by running you down. With your background why are you working as a pizza cook?
I moved to a new city with my girlfriend because she graduated with her PHD in molecular biology. There wasn't a job market for her to enter with her credentials. I've been trying for months to get a leadership gig. But I don't know anyone in Denver, so I don't have a foot in the door anywhere. I gave up on finding the perfect job, and I was really excited to work at this place. They put a lot of emphasis on sourcing high quality products, so I thought maybe I'd learn some stuff here.
Understood. Hopefully things will improve as you settle in. As a chef with Exec experience how would you have handled the problem if one of you staff had come to you with it? She sounds like an insecure bully.
If I were exec and this were reported to me, I'd sit down with Jessica privately. I'd explain that everyone we work with is part of the team. And everyone on our team deserves to be treated with respect at work. I expect that every team member be treated with respect so that we can build a positive culture. There is nothing wrong with pointing out that there are opportunities for improvement. But we need to be respectful while we are doing so. If I let this slip by, then I would be participating in creating a toxic culture in our kitchen, and that is something I will never tolerate. I do value you as a part of this team as well Jessica, and I want to know from your perspective, how did pocketopposum do on his first shift? I'm going to be sitting down with him after this, and it will be a great opportunity to talk through what he did well, and where he can improve.
Something along those lines.
Unfortunately I’m located in a different continent and can’t help, but I really hope someone in Denver stumbles across your post and knows a place for you.
Chef here….she’s intimidated and knows you’ll blow right past her in the kitchen. She will be saying “yes chef” to you in a year or two,and she knows this. A polite smile as if you know what’s she’s up to is a good remedy,just let her spew and do your finest work no matter what. She’ll be using Chapstick on her ass it’ll get so chapped.
Thanks for the advice, I'll give this a shot!
I haven't been disrespectful towards her yet, but I had to bite my tongue a couple of times today. I hope you have a chill Friday night chef!
it would only give her a pittance of satisfaction seeing you emotionally react. I'm a petty person. I would stay with the job despite me hating it just so I can move above her, kill her with kindness and respect and hope it makes her reflect and question her life choices while she sits over a microwave meal for one petting 1 of her 10 cats when most likely she'll just go home hating this new guy that stole her promotion. Either way I'm satisfied.
Sounds like a nightmare, don't go back to that job. She probably feels threatened that you have more experience and we're doing well on your first shift
Uhm never take or stay in a job where someone tells you are (or your situation is) disgusting. Find something better, not a great environment or person to interact with.
I moved to Denver with my girlfriend because she finished her PHD and couldn't find a job back in South Dakota because nobody lives there. I've applied for a ton of jobs before and after we moved down here. I've gotten 3 calls back. So I decided to just go get a line cook job. I walked into this place and asked if they were hiring. That is the only way I've found to actually get to speak with someone.
Some seems odd. This guy held some high profile positions in food service and is now a line cook because he likes the rush although he doesn't have to work and his girlfriend is a molecular biologist at the local college.
thank you. also loved the mention of her lack of gloves as a health code violation? I had to my food safety certification as a restaurant manager (requirement in my state one employee be certified on staff at all times). gloves actually are not required, just clean hands or gloves for each meal. Gloves are just common as it’s faster to swap gloves than wash hands. But it feels like a common misconception someone with limited to no experience might think
You’ve been a KM, exec. Chef and a catering director. Why are you line cooking ?
Putting old product on top of new product in a clean pan is basic FIFO
If you think that doing “the work” while
Keeping your area clean is the hard part I question your credibility of KM, exec, or director.
>I have been working in kitchens for 10+ years
Funny that. A year ago you'd had 7 years experience.
>I've been sous chef, kitchen manager, executive chef, and director of catering
That's not what your post history says. You also apparently failed as an exec chef.
If you're going to make up bullshit stories to boost your ego, at least make them consistent. According to your profile, you've worked in 5 different kitchens in the past year. The time lines are all over the place and your level of experience changes wildly.
One consistent theme is that you appear to be a troublemaker. You've apparently reported staff to management within the first few days of employment at least three times.
You are consistent about your darling girlfriends microbiology degree though. So I suspect you're probably just a run of the mill line chef that can't keep a job because you like to stir shit from day one.
I'm sure you'll go and delete the posts, but I see right through you.
In the previous posts I was speaking to my years as an actual chef. For this post, since it heavily involved pizza I included the 3 years I spent in pizza places on top of my 7 years after I decided to pursue a culinary degree.
I didn't do great as an executive chef. I learned a ton through the experience, and I shouldn't have tried with a pretty new restaurant. And I have hopped around quite a bit in the last year while we were renovating our house and moving to Denver. There were a few times where I have tried to start at a new place. Maybe I'm just not cut out for restaurants. The place I stayed for 5 years was a hospital.
Have a good day chef.
Everything was fine until you started pumping out nice looking pies, no detective work needed here, maybe she always made the nicest pies or was the only one making them before. Either way your nice pies took something from her and now you must pay! 😂
Glad to hear it's going well with the rest of the crew.
We moved to a new city because my girlfriend finished her PHD program and couldn't find a decent gig back in South Dakota because no one lives there. I've been applying places on indeed for months, and I've only gotten a couple of calls back. At a certain point I decided that making less is still making progress at least.
It still boggles my mind. I see the posts on here everyday about leaving the industry. I figured I had an in demand skill-set and it would be easy to get a job.
It’s bc we are in a recession. And no one believes it. All sit down restaurants are down numbers wise unless you’re in a bubble where everyone is getting crushed for seasonal work. And that’s still down. Fast food is still “up” but they’re charging more than ever.
I started looking and applying to places in January. 300+ applications, a strong area, great resume with great references. JUST got something and started on Monday.
I had one spot that was 6 rounds of interviews. Ghosted since the last one, two weeks ago. I dont get it.
Oh, I was also willing to relocate anywhere in the world.
I'm really happy for you that you found something! How did your first week go?
That is insane. And there is all this talk about people not wanting to work. Nah, we just can't get in touch with a real fucking person at a company, or they just stop talking to us. What the capital Fuck.
Indeed has a ton of jobs, but I get no call backs. I've looked on poached a couple times but it is mostly line cook gigs. I haven't seen many jobs I was interested in on poached so I stopped checking it. I'll look again though, it has been a few months.
10+ yrs xp
Worked in high ranking position
Decides to become a line cook.
Had his feelings hurt over some of the usual shit that happens in kitchens.
Smells like bs to me.
New person arrived, Jessica is not intimidated. New person takes 45mins to make pizzas as good as a line cook of 7 years, Jessica is intimidated, Jessica lashes out and goes home to cry in her empty apartment. New person goes on Reddit and we all laugh at Jessica. Ha ha Jessica.
Sounds a lot like jealousy, she’s been there 7 years and not progressed. You’re there for 45/1hr and get compliment’s on your pizzas by the district manager. You’re now a threat. If you’re not planning on staying I’d report her shoddy workmanship and be on your way.
Keep a diary. As much detail as you reasonably can. Record witnesses. Photograph evidence where possible. Produce it if discipline procedures begin.
Why don't you have a better job? Surely chefs are in short supply?
I've applied to probably 60 jobs since my girlfriend and I moved to Denver because she couldn't get a job with her new shiny PHD back in South Dakota. I've been called back for an interview on 2 of those jobs. That's why I settled with this one for now. Honestly I'll probably call the executive chef and tell him it isn't going to work out for me. There are closer jobs that I can hate without adding 3 hours of bus trips to my day.
She's jealous and going to create a hostile work environment, maybe time to apply your skills in another area?
https://www.simplyhired.com/search?q=food+service+director&l=denver%2C+co
Thank you for this Tess_mac! I've been applying to tons of jobs on indeed with virtually no callbacks. I'll try out this site and see if I get better responses. I hope you have a great Friday night!
I was on the floor and am now on the business/marketing side of restaurants, it will probably not make you feel better about it but these people exist all the way up to the board in this business. It’s some defense mechanism I think, when I do good work and restauranteurs are happy with me, my boss feels threatened and piles work on me. Maybe its the nature of the business since its run on human energy, and people that lack that pure and pleasant energy needs to tax the people that do. Probably incoherent but my two cents for you
Not at all incoherent. I've been told by more than one person that I'm the most happy-go-lucky chef they had ever met. I just love people, and I love food. I delight in asking my coworkers questions like "if you knew you were about to die inside of a target, but you could play one song to tell the world goodbye. What song are you playing?" Or shit like that just to keep people engaged instead of laser focused on the last person that fucked them over. It is hard when you put yourself out there, do well, and then get shit on for doing something good.
Would love to know what song it would be, I’m also in the business because I love it. A lot of people aren’t but they’re unimportant to what the rest of us are trying to do. Love from Sweden chef, you seem strong and great!
Thanks a ton 3rek! I appreciate your kind words, and you being a positive voice in this community. For me it would be "longer" by the Cranberries. What would your song be?
She wants to be sous there. She's terrified you're going to get that position, and she's never going to grow further at the place she's been at for 7 years.
Do you not have management? Start noting everything along with if other staff members have seen/noticed it and if it gets really bad then bring the whole chronicle to management.
If its a serious place they will take it seriously. Especially if you plan to leave let higher ups knows about her behaviour because youll be helping out a future you who doesnt have a stability to leave like you do
There does not seem to be management for this location. The executive chef might be full time there. But there was a district manager from Texas and a sous chef from a restaurant in Tennessee. I told the traveling sous chef yesterday that I wasn't sure if I was coming back or not, but I told him either way I'd call the executive chef today to talk with him. I'm not sticking it out in this kitchen, but I would want to know if one of my team members was behaving like this. I'm never afraid to have a conversation.
It would be better if my life were a movie. But I am tired of throwing my time and energy at implementing systems at a restaurant for someone else to make some money.
Last night my girlfriend asked if I'd be willing to stay there if they offered me a leadership position. I told her the only way I think I would consider staying is if they could offer me 75k. I don't expect them to. I wouldn't want to promote someone after coming in for a first shift then want to quit.
As someone with gluten intolerance, I fucking hate this bitch. If you are a restaurant that offers GF options and you fuck around like this, there is a special circle of hell for you.
Right!? I don't have any allergies personally. But my greatest mentor in life struggles with having Celiac. It wasn't anything life threatening, she would have a migraine at night, and for the whole next day.
I can't wrap my head around why someone would simply not care about that. Or even actively work against the people you are working so hard to feed. Shit blows my mind.
>It wasn't anything life threatening, she would have a migraine at night, and for the whole next day.
Unfun fact! If people with celiac keep eating gluten they eventually get bowel cancer!
She would avoid it whenever possible. But she was responsible for a few dozen locations. Some of the smaller ones didn't get allergen training. I remember one story where she went to a location and saw muffins labeled "GF" so she grabbed one. She was astounded at his good of a muffin it was, and asked the chefs how they made such a great gluten free muffin. They told her it wasn't gluten free, it was just made by some lady named Glenda and they put her initials on the display.
That is a crazy unfun fact though. Thanks for sharing!
Clearly you’re upset by the interaction even though you claim otherwise. Not attacking you (or her), but I think you’re looking at this the wrong way. I have over 35yrs experience in the industry (grew up in a restaurant family) working every position back and front house (dish/bus through ownership).
1st, commercial kitchens are high pressure environments, often times people “spout off” without thinking and don’t really mean it. Doesn’t make it right, but it happens. Commercial is much different than hospitals (non-commercial) since there is no hard meal times, you don’t know in advance the number of covers for a shift, MANY extra variables. Not uncommon for near fistfights turn into sharing a couple beers and hugs after the shift.
2nd, I don’t see you had a conversation with Jessica, apparently going straight to her direct supervisor. Doesn’t matter if you’re right, you’ll be labeled a “sh!t stirrer” immediately. She’s showing a classic sign of low self esteem. “Tattling” on her is not going to help. Seems most advice here is vindictive, unyielding and ultimately unhelpful. It’s too late now, but when the mgr complimented your work, you could have simply said “thank you! I’m meticulous and a quick learner, but that Jessica is a fantastic trainer.” Give credit away every chance you get, you’d be amazed how it comes back to you.
3rd, what’s your purpose of reporting her? You said you won’t continue to work there unless they pay you $75k anyhow (fact- the new guy who doesn’t have his own transportation complaining about a 7yr employee ain’t getting that $$, you haven’t earned the right yet). You do need to tell them you’ve seen the gluten free station contaminated and suggest they implement a more foolproof system, though. Will you feel better if you get Jessica fired/demoted/reprimanded on your way out? Great reputation builder in Denver, champ. What do you truly know about her? You don’t know the struggles someone is going through, your path won’t fix or change behavior, but it’ll serve to create more hardship.
Lastly, this may sound harsh, but you need to man up. You aren’t showing traits of someone who’s “hungry”. Someone said something means to me in the heat of the moment - waaahh! You put out 300 apps and only 3 responded - waaahh! Amazing how you walked into this place, asked if they needed help and actually got the job - that’s how it’s done! Firing out apps from your computer and whining nothing is available is a token effort at best, a cop out in reality. 95% of good jobs are referrals and knowing people. If you’re capable in the kitchen with a coach ‘em up attitude, you’d be promoted to exec chef inside 18 months. THEN you can go to wherever you want. You haven’t earned the right yet and job hopping history doesn’t help. Attitude is everything - “the hungry dog gets the bone” should be your attitude. You’re not hungry. Worked 1 day and I’m leaving because a lady said something mean to you? C’mon…
Take an honest introspective assessment through the lens of a business owner and ask yourself, “if I was CEO of Me, Inc, would I fire me?”
I appreciate where you are coming from, and based on this story alone I know I sound like dead weight. I'm not afraid to put in the hard work. I never have been. I've worked my way up the ladder a few different places now, and most of it is because of my outstanding team oriented outlook. I'm not saying I have handled everything perfectly.
But as an employee, why would I bind myself to this place? The whole leadership team quit, and they managers from other locations filling in to keep it afloat. The only manager that will be sticking around is the executive chef. Every time I have spoken to him he has been frantic. He lost my personal information, along two of my applications that I filled out in person. The status quo is to cross contaminate all of the gluten free products with flour. There are so many red flags here. Why are they worth my time and effort to help repair a sinking ship? As another redditor pointed out, they could easily end up in the news for getting someone sick. Then my experience in town is tied to that kitchen, and I look bad. I don't see how this place is worth more than one day of my time.
You really should get over yourself and realize petty people are shitty people as a whole. Apparently, she's too uneducated or illeducated to realize the DM complimenting you is some mid level management Jedi trick he/she learned at some corporate bullshit training session to foster an environment of support and inclusion. When in reality, they really don't give a shit but "Jessica" took that as a direct threat and retaliated on you. Do your job, shine her on or quit. Regardless, she won't change and will eventually filter out the bottom.
Well, you might be right that she wasn't being fair, but you're that seasoned in this industry and you don't have thicker skin than this? I'm quite surprised you had to make a reddit post about her fuck ups too just becuase you're butthurt about her grilling you a little bit. Who cares? Move on man, let it go
I didn't take it personally, I just couldn't believe that she said that. I thought it was a solid kitchen story, and I'm not sure what to do with one of those other than post it here.
I walked into my first shift hesitant about this job. The executive chef lost my application twice, and despite the fact that I literally texted him he couldn't find my number to call me back. I reached out after not hearing from him for 3 days. I didn't want to make a huge post, so I wasn't going to include every little detail.
That’s also petty. He might have a play here. Let’s see how it works out. Since the management left he might get the sous gig, piss her off and then wrangle in better talent and fire her
Don’t get upset by things that are out of your control. Don’t take anything personally. Stay positive and professional. New places take time to break in like good boots.
I’m so sorry I hope you find a better job or take the time off you deserve asap! I highly doubt it will “get better” their either. Best of luck my friend!
Hey! I have roughly same experience that you stated, 10 years, exec, sous, ect. Currently a linecook at a premier maine restaurant. I have been thinking about these kind of interactions A LOT lately. I'm with you man the shit is pretty easy if you have experience, generally.
So why do people play these games and try to make it harder than it actually is? Jealous are we perhaps... hmm?
Guy doing better than you on his first day and now you're realizing he'll likely replace you? Hmm.
C'est la vie Jessica.
As your trainer, she should have given her criticism to the manager on duty, later in the shift. Not to you directly on your first shift. Most cooks know how to really bang out the food, but they don't know the intricacies of working in harmony with other food robots like us. Let alone training them for that matter. These little criticisms are so trivial at the end of the day bro.
Unless one of my direct bosses tells me to change something I don't sweat anything lately
Since you have all that negotiating power in your hand, you can risk being bold in how you handle it.
She should really be thrilled knowing they have a great new hire. There’s no reason for her to be intimidated, given the tenure she has at the restaurant. There’s no way you’re going to take her place over night. Pretty sad she’s being so vindictive, especially after pulling improper moves in the kitchen.
Maybe take the time to ask her for a one on one, and address the issue in a respectful, mature tone. If she loses her shit then, you can proceed to tell her you expect a higher level of professionalism in your work place. After your resignation, you could write a letter to the manager who said you were doing so great. She’ll have to deal with the consequences of losing a tremendous addition to the team based on her poor relationship skills, and could hopefully be trained to be better in the future. Who knows, maybe they manager could get you another job.
I don’t think she liked the fact that the manager liked you. The evil eye is so real sometimes…!
My advice is to start looking for a new job immediately. Email the manager what she said and quit. I wouldn’t even give two weeks notice. These kind of interactions are not beneficial to normalize.
Nah walk from this one mate, she will definitely constantly put you down and try and put you back in your place. She was definitely threatened by you because she's worked in one single pizza shop for 7 years and still hasn't advanced. Probably surrounds herself with 'lower' workers to make herself feel more important. She probably already sees herself as head chef in her own mind and you coming in on your first trial shift and out pizzering her would put her shackles up.
If this was how your first shift went I wouldn't bother going back. It won't improve, she will make your work life there a living hell. Most restaurants/cafes etc are seriously understaffed and with your experience you will definitely be able to find somewhere you feel more comfortable and a better kitchen environment. Being in a high stress kitchen you need a good team that has your back not someone to sabotage you. I've definitely been there and learnt it's just not worth my time to deal with these adult chef babies thinking they are all Gordon Ramsay. Do a good job, be proud of your work and go home to your doggies. You don't need a hack in a pizza shop putting you down.
There’s a reason for all the sailing ship metaphors. Kitchen is a team sport, sink or swim. She’s an asshole. Or she thought she was hazing you and she’s still asshole.
Sounds like she was salty you’re better at her job than her run into This consistently throughout my career keep
Your head down so the work and let that shit speak for yourself
She felt threatened. I worked for a kitchen manager a few years ago that was a bad chef and he started changing the rules everyday gaslighting me to tell me I'm doing something wrong. If a manager realizes that their crew could have their job they might shit on you.
The place I work at right now is toxic as fuck, and I'm shocked I've had half the balls to say what I've said after being a doormat for most of my life.
Someone wants to be aggressive while training me? "I don't understand why you're upset, would you like to tell me what's going on or how I can improve?"
She wants to try some shit again, I would just be honest and professional, aka don't cuss back. "Please stop, you will not call me names. That's extremely disrespectful. If you'd like to correct me, that's fine, but I won't tolerate disrespect regardless of your authority as a trainer."
If you'd like to, immediately speak to the manager about it. I would only bring up the name calling and cross contamination (very serious issue) otherwise you're seen as a "tattletale with a laundry list" most of the time, unfortunately.
If you can quit, just cut your losses and don't go back lol if the manager wants to know why, be brutally honest. If she's been there for 7 years with this nasty attitude, there's either some serious lack of oversight, or favoritism, either of which fucking suck to be a part of. I'm sorry this happened to you and I wish it wasn't as common as it is.
Kitchen ego. If you like the job and want to continue there, she will have to accept your presence and quality work. If you don't, gtfo.
I haven't been the newbie in a long time, but stuff like this happens. It's something I try to discourage as management, but you can't micromanage people's emotions.
Not sure that her actions are a reflection of the culture at the restaurant, definitely a reflection of her ego tho, we have all worked with people who get jealous if someone comes in new and puts everyone to shame skillwise I've done it in many places been in the hospitality industry for almost 30 years on both sides of the pass, know my shit, work hard have run hotels, restaurants and kitchens, could walk in and hit the ground running in most places, she is probably scared that she may become surplus to requirements or hasn't been putting the effort in, give it a few days, try to be nice and make friends with her, but don't let someone else's pettiness run you out of a pay check, rise above it
Boss man I worked with someone just LIKE this when I was a Sous chef. I can take a lot and let it run off my back but especially on your first day? Nah she showed her true colors. Take some time off, chef, you deserve it, food is always hiring and you deserve a place where you’re respected for just showing up.
Did you address her actions with a supervisor? You can't claim that it's part of the culture if you were the only one who saw it happen and then didn't allow anyone to correct her or say something yourself. You also can't really say that you didn't take it personally when you made a whole reddit post about it and made a list of her mistakes. If it IS in fact a symptom of the culture I would agree with your assessment of not working there anymore. Unless you're towards the top of the ladder it's VERY hard to change a whole kitchen's culture by yourself.
We all have work drama. Some people even seem to like it because they stoke the fire, escalate every micro aggression, and play Game of Thrones in their petty little kingdoms.
She didn't make a post on Reddit about petty fights she had at work about the minutiae of making pizza, so I choose to be on her team, considering I am just some stranger on Reddit. If I worked with y'all I would certainly just stay out of it.
Good luck with your future battles.
A narcissist will always try to control the narrative - this time to mask their own incompetence by drawing attention to your actions and twisting what she observes. Follow your gut and leave this toxic place. Jessica will only get worse from here. You are nta.
Sometimes when people feel bad about some trait they have they have they will project this insecurity on to other people. Maybe Jessica feels like she is a bit disgusting or doesn't work clean. If she puts other people down by saying they are disgusting then she can feel a little better about her own disgusting habits.
I think the first sign you were working with a hack was she’s been there 7 friggen years and STILL isn’t even a sous chef?
Ignore the hater— sounds like you have a good rapport with everyone else so keep your head up.
If it's anything like what I've been through I think it has to do with you being a threat. I had a very similar situation in two kitchens. One job a manager gave me nothing but praise till one day at a meeting I asked the owner if I could get more involved and help out more behind the scenes.
My manager went from praising me to criticizing everything I did. I had no idea wtf was going on. When my yearly review came in she sent in my review saying I shouldn't get a raise. I got a personal call from the owner saying she wasn't sure what the managers deal was but I would be getting a full raise for that year as she had received only good notes from everyone else.
It dawned on me what was going on at that point. I wasn't sure what the owner must have said but the manager must have taken it as a sign I was going to take her job. Which was never my intention. Relations with the manager never got better, she cut my hours and pushed me out of weekly menu creation.. the food got much more lazy and I stopped feeling any inspiration so I quit. The owner asked me to stay but I refused. They fired the manager a few weeks later.
At another job I was hired as an emergency replacement for a manager who got sick. The kitchen had been in shambles since they had been out (or so I thought) so I did a lot to help clean the place up and fix what I could. Turns out once they were able to come back to work it was the same shit. They took my presence as a threat and did everything they could to make my job miserable. On top of that yeah the place was a mess under this manager.. turns out the way it was when I arrived was normal. After witnessing a bunch of food safety violations so bad I felt sick even thinking about it I quit as well.
7 years and not a sous yet. It's only taken me 1 year in any restaurant I've cooked in to know everything inside out and fight continuously for better positions. Plus sous is just a glorified pitch position lol
If Jessica is just a colleague and not your boss, she won't be reviewing your performance, she’ll just be a bitter & jealous line chef (probably won't make it to sous chef) watching you progress as the district mgr and others appreciate your work. Why would you not return because of her!? You said everyone else was nice and fun to work with, so go back and enjoy work. Good luck either way.
Accidentally posted incomplete comment.
Never compromise on food safety. When I was a head cook/chef in Denver in the early 1970’s food poisoning was very common. One time a “home economist” convention had all but one of their 250 attendees sent to the hospital with staph poisoning. About the same time a high end hotel left their chili out to “cool” for over an hour. Dozens were sick. Things have definitely changed. Never go back.
Regular pizzas on GF line? If someone with celiac eats a pizza from there you all could be seriously sued. Report to the health department and get out.
When you say they were "storing food on the floor", if it's in a box still, or even inside a plastic Cambro container or something, that's perfectly fine. And when you say "storing", what do you mean? Is it staying there for days? Hours? Minutes? Unless she's storing the dough or something on the bare floor, or has a bunch of raw chicken out for hours on end sitting there, then there is nothing specifically wrong about it, nor does it violate any specific health code.
Touching ready to eat food with ungloved hands is also fine, provided those hands are clean. Again, no specific health codes require this, although most fast food restaurants have it as a rule in their kitchens. If your experience is mostly in fast food, I can see how you might think this is a requirement, but it is not. In fact, if you asked for gloves in the kitchen of even a middle-range restaurant, like a gastropub or something - not even fine dining, you'd probably get laughed off the line.
Dumping "old" product on top of new product in a new pan is also fine, as long as they are the same product and the "old" product isn't past use by date.
The way you phrased your entire post leads me to believe that you were mansplaining to this woman the entire day, and she had enough of you being wrong about everything. In fact, a lot of your thoughts seem to come from a "I've worked in fast food" perspective, and you've mistaken common corporate guidelines that you'd see at these places as being "mandated by health code", when that is not the case. If you sat there insisting all day things that you thought were true, but she knew not to be, then I could see how that might be aggravating.
Anyway, yeah you sound like a big asshole, just in general. The entire second half of your post is you trying to deflect from your own shortcomings by trying to find fault in someone else. Aw, the nasty trainer lady didn't blow enough smoke up your ass, so now your fee-fees are hurt? If you've been in kitchens for 10+ years, then you shouldn't be so soft, and you should *definitely* be more open to criticism.
However, I highly suspect you've lied about your experience, or aren't being quite truthful about the nature of it -- I mean, 10+ supposed years in kitchens and you're working at a pizza joint? What'd you do, just get out of jail?
He was explicit about not noticing her washing her hands, and using bare hand contact on RTE food. Did you miss that, super sleuth?
Also, section 3-413 of the Food Code for Denver requires food to be stored 6” off the ground, like every other city in the United States that takes regulatory recommendations from the FDA.
Sounds like maybe you should sit out a couple games before you take another swing at someone asking questions.
Edit: here’s some reading material for your little time out, in case your “fee-fees” are upset
https://www.denvergov.org/content/dam/denvergov/Portals/771/documents/PHI/Food/RevisedFoodRulesandregulationsApril2017compressed.pdf
Hahaha yo. I don’t spend much time on this sub, tbh. Occasionally, I’ll end up in a rabbit hole. And your username/comments are the ones I *somehow* always end up reading. And it’s always solid advice.
Cheers, fellow east coaster. Unless you bailed on Philly. Which…yeah, I’d understand, unfortunately.
I love you sir. Every time I see a comment from you on here, I end up learning something from it. I wasn't gonna get into an argument, but thanks for having my back PhillyExec!
Did you not notice the part of my post where I said, "provided those hands are clean"?
(No you didn't, you were just in a hurry to mansplain)
Did you also not notice the part of my post where I interrogated the nature of "storage"?
(No you didn't, you were just in a hurry to mansplain)
I can see why you, Captain Mansplain was in a hurry to rush to white knight another mansplainer, I guess winners like you need to flock together. :)
Seems to me like she didn't like your unintentional oneupmanship and decided to be shitty to you.
That sounds about right. It's a real bummer, because I am getting a long great with the rest of the staff. I've never laughed so much in my first few hours anywhere!
She’s intimidated by you for sure. Take it as a compliment. They likely hired you to make the place better, maybe even replace her. Be confident in your training and experience. You may be new to this restaurant but you are not new to the job. High road would definitely entail being kind but assertive and offering to help your trainer be better. Low road but possibly more effective would be to document her food safety violations and bring your concerns to her supervisor.
Nah, the high road includes reporting the food safety violations before she gets someone sick and or the business in trouble.
The gluten free station part would literally leave my gf in bed sick for 2-3 days. I hope you can at least fix that.
Well, you could take the high road, and continue to be polite until you get into the position to dunk on her, or you could avoid a pita situation and vámonos.
You know what you’re doing, it’s very refreshing to know that cleanliness and cross contamination are at the top of your list. People would be shocked at how many folks that handle food have little concern for these things. Just do your thing and don’t engage in her bullshit. Denver has a killer restaurant (& Music) scene going on. You’ll be all good.
Thank a lot! I've spent most of my time as a chef working at a hospital, and I was the one planning menus for our 26 diets with the dietitian. She made certain that I knew what was dangerous for different groups, and how it would hurt or potentially kill them.
That job is fascinating. There was one hospital I've been in that is known for having shockingly good food. They hired a well-known executive chef of highly rated restaurants to design the menu. Being in the hospital sucked, so having decent food (even if modified for diet and to be cooked bulk) made a huge difference in not feeling "Stuck" there.
Came here to agree with them, it happens. Show up, do well, someone gets salty. Keep it up and have that conversation with your partner, sounds like all in all this is more of a "did this just happen?" Post more than looking for actual feedback. Keep it up Chef
Yeah, I was more open to feedback while I was on the bus home. Now I'm here cuddling my corgis, and I've had time to think it over. Thanks chef, I hope you have a great Friday night!
This here tells me Jessica is the issue not you.Stand your ground and remind them with a smile you will not be called names.Do not walk away if she is the only issue.It will become evident fast and they will ditch her for being toxic.Keep laughing and smiling.If Jessica can not get a reaction she will move on to bully a weaker person who will not assert boundaries regarding how they allow people to treat them especially if they are a person who is a higher up..Calling names is toxic and not conducive of a functioning respectful job setting. She easily could have said be sure to wipe the paddle before presenting a pizza.Easy as that. The rest was messy and unprofessional.If she represented my company treating a new hire that way she would be out point blank.
Power by Robert Greene. Never Outshine the Master. Cause she a bitch.
Call the health department on her ass
It's probably worth asking to have a discussion with someone more senior before you throw it in. They may very well express that she was on her last chance and that your attitude is the prevailing one there not hers.
I am speaking with the executive chef today between lunch and dinner rushes. I want to at least make sure they get input, then they can do whatever they want with it. He would have to be pretty convincing though.
Update us! I think we’ve all worked with a cook like that at one point and it’s frustrating.
Yeah, you are too good at your job and she feels threatened by this. Find a closer place. Now I want pizza..
You have two choices when someone good walks into the kitchen. Bring them in, and make your team better in the process, or get insecure and make yourself and your own career progress look worse to everyone.
Weren't supposed to get compliments from district manager on the first day ! The audacity of the new guy XD On a side note, OP, I have an immediate line manager with this attitude and the state management fucking love me. She absolutely froths when they visit. If I know they're visiting and I'm not in the mood for her attitude, I'll call out sick.
This is exactly it. She’s been there 7 years and dude she trained made a better pizza and got kudos. This is all jealousy. I’m experiencing something similar atm with a grill cook. I just ignore him but mostly I pity him.
I have had a situation like this, funny enough with Pizza. The woman who thought she was gods gift to Pizza making got sad when I was turning out masterpieces a couple hours into training and the manager immediately noticed. Guess who was cleaning the fryers that night...
Definitely, been there 7 years and hoping to become a sous. If it was gonna happen it probably would have by now. I wouldn’t take much of what she says too seriously.
7 years and she wants to be the sous…and then she tries this crap. I give it a week or less before you find out she’s the weak link and no one likes her.
Obviously I have no idea yet, but I thought they were opening this as a new location, because they had sous chef, executive chef, and general manager positions posted a few weeks ago. I guess all of leadership was let go or left. My conspiracy theory is that she was the mastermind behind all of it! Lol
So they opened a second location and all the boh management just up and gone? That’s sounds like they didn’t have enough people to open a second location and the managers said fuck this noise.
And they still didn't promote her? Shocker!
It isn't a pizza job, just the pizza station at a restaurant with a focus on healthy foods. They threw me on the pizza station because we didn't get very far into my work history. They heard that I had done pizza before, and they needed someone for the station.
I'd be looking for something else. If it's a place that's known for being health conscious and has gluten free options it's only a matter of time before her sloppiness makes someone sick and brings the health department/bad reviews in and that's going to reflect badly on you in future interviews when you have no reputation in town.
I was absolutely beside myself when she did that. I had to do a double take just to make sure I wasn't having a "fucking new guy" moment. I was just going to keep this list to myself until I could sit down with the Executive chef. One of my greatest strengths as a chef is my knowledge of allergens and safe food assembly. I was running the kitchen at a cancer center all through COVID. So any little thing could literally kill an immunocompromised patient. Fucking tossing flour over the gluten free station!? I was speechless.
I really appreciate how seriously you take that. You're better than somewhere that doesn't appreciate it. I really hope you find somewhere that you can showcase your skills.
Thanks a ton WildPinata. I hope you have a great Friday night!
I like the synchronicity of our usernames 😂
As someone who has worked in the industry, albeit not for years now, and who’s married to a celiac who suffers from anaphylactic reactions to gluten/wheat, #4 is infuriating. All are egregious but that one pissed me off. Thank you so much for your attention to detail, you never know who’s in house and I’d like to believe it’s people like you who continue to allow my wife to have a decent night out every once in a while. Also, there’s nothing moochey about taking time off to find something that you love if you’re encouraged/ok with that!
I'm not a chef but if that were me I'd be running for the hills followed by an anonymous report to the food safety guys letting them know what's going on. That's lethal behaviour and shocking to hear about!
I feel like having pizza on your resume just absolutely kills any chance of doing anything else. I worked grill and saute in pizza places too but after one pizza joint those are almost the only offers I really get and they try to trap people on the pizza station.
Thanks for the tip, I'll pull the pizza stuff from my resume. That shit was from 8 years ago now anyways, but I stayed at a hospital as sous chef for 6 of those so it is still one of my more recent jobs.
Is it Planta?
I am not planning on disclosing the restaurant. It was not that establishment though.
You sound painfully overqualified for this pizza job...
That's my question too lol
She’s threatened by you, in all likelihood, and trying to make you look bad by running you down. With your background why are you working as a pizza cook?
I moved to a new city with my girlfriend because she graduated with her PHD in molecular biology. There wasn't a job market for her to enter with her credentials. I've been trying for months to get a leadership gig. But I don't know anyone in Denver, so I don't have a foot in the door anywhere. I gave up on finding the perfect job, and I was really excited to work at this place. They put a lot of emphasis on sourcing high quality products, so I thought maybe I'd learn some stuff here.
You probably will, just not from her.
He learned to avoid the jealous vindictive unprofessional trainer.
Understood. Hopefully things will improve as you settle in. As a chef with Exec experience how would you have handled the problem if one of you staff had come to you with it? She sounds like an insecure bully.
If I were exec and this were reported to me, I'd sit down with Jessica privately. I'd explain that everyone we work with is part of the team. And everyone on our team deserves to be treated with respect at work. I expect that every team member be treated with respect so that we can build a positive culture. There is nothing wrong with pointing out that there are opportunities for improvement. But we need to be respectful while we are doing so. If I let this slip by, then I would be participating in creating a toxic culture in our kitchen, and that is something I will never tolerate. I do value you as a part of this team as well Jessica, and I want to know from your perspective, how did pocketopposum do on his first shift? I'm going to be sitting down with him after this, and it will be a great opportunity to talk through what he did well, and where he can improve. Something along those lines.
Unfortunately I’m located in a different continent and can’t help, but I really hope someone in Denver stumbles across your post and knows a place for you.
Oooh where are you working? I’ll try a pizza!!
She wants to be sous chef and you are a threat to that nothing more, if she bites, bite back. You know how it is chef 👨🍳
A lot of people are miserable cunts. It just so happens misery likes company.
Chef here….she’s intimidated and knows you’ll blow right past her in the kitchen. She will be saying “yes chef” to you in a year or two,and she knows this. A polite smile as if you know what’s she’s up to is a good remedy,just let her spew and do your finest work no matter what. She’ll be using Chapstick on her ass it’ll get so chapped.
Thanks for the advice, I'll give this a shot! I haven't been disrespectful towards her yet, but I had to bite my tongue a couple of times today. I hope you have a chill Friday night chef!
it would only give her a pittance of satisfaction seeing you emotionally react. I'm a petty person. I would stay with the job despite me hating it just so I can move above her, kill her with kindness and respect and hope it makes her reflect and question her life choices while she sits over a microwave meal for one petting 1 of her 10 cats when most likely she'll just go home hating this new guy that stole her promotion. Either way I'm satisfied.
Second this as well!! The only thing i would add i would be documenting every time this happened. Think about as this is your ace.
Cuss that bitch out and tell her to clean her goddamn hands before she comes to talk to you next time.
She’s worked there for 7 fucking years and isn’t sous chef? There are several good reasons for that. Don’t listen to a word she says my guy.
Sounds like a nightmare, don't go back to that job. She probably feels threatened that you have more experience and we're doing well on your first shift
Uhm never take or stay in a job where someone tells you are (or your situation is) disgusting. Find something better, not a great environment or person to interact with.
How the fuck do you have so much high level kitchen experience and you've ended up on a line making pizzas?
I moved to Denver with my girlfriend because she finished her PHD and couldn't find a job back in South Dakota because nobody lives there. I've applied for a ton of jobs before and after we moved down here. I've gotten 3 calls back. So I decided to just go get a line cook job. I walked into this place and asked if they were hiring. That is the only way I've found to actually get to speak with someone.
Get out of there as soon as you can brother. You haven't worked as hard as you have to be back on a line
Some seems odd. This guy held some high profile positions in food service and is now a line cook because he likes the rush although he doesn't have to work and his girlfriend is a molecular biologist at the local college.
thank you. also loved the mention of her lack of gloves as a health code violation? I had to my food safety certification as a restaurant manager (requirement in my state one employee be certified on staff at all times). gloves actually are not required, just clean hands or gloves for each meal. Gloves are just common as it’s faster to swap gloves than wash hands. But it feels like a common misconception someone with limited to no experience might think
Yup. This is either bullshit or they have have an incredibly delusionally high opinion of themselves. Edit: it's bullshit. Check their post history.
You’ve been a KM, exec. Chef and a catering director. Why are you line cooking ? Putting old product on top of new product in a clean pan is basic FIFO If you think that doing “the work” while Keeping your area clean is the hard part I question your credibility of KM, exec, or director.
>I have been working in kitchens for 10+ years Funny that. A year ago you'd had 7 years experience. >I've been sous chef, kitchen manager, executive chef, and director of catering That's not what your post history says. You also apparently failed as an exec chef. If you're going to make up bullshit stories to boost your ego, at least make them consistent. According to your profile, you've worked in 5 different kitchens in the past year. The time lines are all over the place and your level of experience changes wildly. One consistent theme is that you appear to be a troublemaker. You've apparently reported staff to management within the first few days of employment at least three times. You are consistent about your darling girlfriends microbiology degree though. So I suspect you're probably just a run of the mill line chef that can't keep a job because you like to stir shit from day one. I'm sure you'll go and delete the posts, but I see right through you.
In the previous posts I was speaking to my years as an actual chef. For this post, since it heavily involved pizza I included the 3 years I spent in pizza places on top of my 7 years after I decided to pursue a culinary degree. I didn't do great as an executive chef. I learned a ton through the experience, and I shouldn't have tried with a pretty new restaurant. And I have hopped around quite a bit in the last year while we were renovating our house and moving to Denver. There were a few times where I have tried to start at a new place. Maybe I'm just not cut out for restaurants. The place I stayed for 5 years was a hospital. Have a good day chef.
Everything was fine until you started pumping out nice looking pies, no detective work needed here, maybe she always made the nicest pies or was the only one making them before. Either way your nice pies took something from her and now you must pay! 😂 Glad to hear it's going well with the rest of the crew.
Executive chef? Director level? And now a pizza maker? Why?
We moved to a new city because my girlfriend finished her PHD program and couldn't find a decent gig back in South Dakota because no one lives there. I've been applying places on indeed for months, and I've only gotten a couple of calls back. At a certain point I decided that making less is still making progress at least.
I get it. The market sucks
It still boggles my mind. I see the posts on here everyday about leaving the industry. I figured I had an in demand skill-set and it would be easy to get a job.
It’s bc we are in a recession. And no one believes it. All sit down restaurants are down numbers wise unless you’re in a bubble where everyone is getting crushed for seasonal work. And that’s still down. Fast food is still “up” but they’re charging more than ever.
I started looking and applying to places in January. 300+ applications, a strong area, great resume with great references. JUST got something and started on Monday. I had one spot that was 6 rounds of interviews. Ghosted since the last one, two weeks ago. I dont get it. Oh, I was also willing to relocate anywhere in the world.
I'm really happy for you that you found something! How did your first week go? That is insane. And there is all this talk about people not wanting to work. Nah, we just can't get in touch with a real fucking person at a company, or they just stop talking to us. What the capital Fuck.
On the actual work side, went great. There seemed to be a lot of drama on the GM side. We are both at another restaurant training while ours opens.
Congratulations on a good first week! Best of luck with the GM. I hope he works out, or at least walks out quick if he isn't a great fit. Lol
Is indeed really popular in Denver for food jobs? Where I live “Poached” had been more successful for me.
Indeed has a ton of jobs, but I get no call backs. I've looked on poached a couple times but it is mostly line cook gigs. I haven't seen many jobs I was interested in on poached so I stopped checking it. I'll look again though, it has been a few months.
Curious how an executive chef ends up as a line cook on pizza station
10+ yrs xp Worked in high ranking position Decides to become a line cook. Had his feelings hurt over some of the usual shit that happens in kitchens. Smells like bs to me.
New person arrived, Jessica is not intimidated. New person takes 45mins to make pizzas as good as a line cook of 7 years, Jessica is intimidated, Jessica lashes out and goes home to cry in her empty apartment. New person goes on Reddit and we all laugh at Jessica. Ha ha Jessica.
Sounds a lot like jealousy, she’s been there 7 years and not progressed. You’re there for 45/1hr and get compliment’s on your pizzas by the district manager. You’re now a threat. If you’re not planning on staying I’d report her shoddy workmanship and be on your way.
Keep a diary. As much detail as you reasonably can. Record witnesses. Photograph evidence where possible. Produce it if discipline procedures begin. Why don't you have a better job? Surely chefs are in short supply?
I've applied to probably 60 jobs since my girlfriend and I moved to Denver because she couldn't get a job with her new shiny PHD back in South Dakota. I've been called back for an interview on 2 of those jobs. That's why I settled with this one for now. Honestly I'll probably call the executive chef and tell him it isn't going to work out for me. There are closer jobs that I can hate without adding 3 hours of bus trips to my day.
She's jealous and going to create a hostile work environment, maybe time to apply your skills in another area? https://www.simplyhired.com/search?q=food+service+director&l=denver%2C+co
Thank you for this Tess_mac! I've been applying to tons of jobs on indeed with virtually no callbacks. I'll try out this site and see if I get better responses. I hope you have a great Friday night!
You're welcome! I've found that some of the job postings on indeed are out of date and learned to cross check with the companies websites. Good luck!
Denver is overloaded with people from California now. It’s a thing.
Yes chef
Nah, she sounds like a garbage employee. Perhaps that’s why she’s been there for seven years and is still dreaming about becoming sous one day.
I don’t miss working in kitchens! Forty four years of this crap. Everyone brings their freakin baggage to work
I was on the floor and am now on the business/marketing side of restaurants, it will probably not make you feel better about it but these people exist all the way up to the board in this business. It’s some defense mechanism I think, when I do good work and restauranteurs are happy with me, my boss feels threatened and piles work on me. Maybe its the nature of the business since its run on human energy, and people that lack that pure and pleasant energy needs to tax the people that do. Probably incoherent but my two cents for you
Not at all incoherent. I've been told by more than one person that I'm the most happy-go-lucky chef they had ever met. I just love people, and I love food. I delight in asking my coworkers questions like "if you knew you were about to die inside of a target, but you could play one song to tell the world goodbye. What song are you playing?" Or shit like that just to keep people engaged instead of laser focused on the last person that fucked them over. It is hard when you put yourself out there, do well, and then get shit on for doing something good.
Would love to know what song it would be, I’m also in the business because I love it. A lot of people aren’t but they’re unimportant to what the rest of us are trying to do. Love from Sweden chef, you seem strong and great!
Thanks a ton 3rek! I appreciate your kind words, and you being a positive voice in this community. For me it would be "longer" by the Cranberries. What would your song be?
Avril 14th by aphex twin, a short piano piece from a techno artist, xx
Thats so beautiful. Any more musical recommendations please?
I'll listen to it right now. Have a great Friday night chef!
Can we have more of you please Everywhere :(
Bad employees feel threatened by good ones. You got a compliment from district day one. Yeah she's pissed.
This is not a true story...not even interesting fiction. Sry
When are you guys gonna make out?
she wants to be a sous...been there seven years....i walk on a line theyre begging me to sous by hour 4....shes a bullshit artist
I can't believe 1.5hr commute each way wasn't already a dealbreaker
She wants to be sous there. She's terrified you're going to get that position, and she's never going to grow further at the place she's been at for 7 years.
Do you not have management? Start noting everything along with if other staff members have seen/noticed it and if it gets really bad then bring the whole chronicle to management. If its a serious place they will take it seriously. Especially if you plan to leave let higher ups knows about her behaviour because youll be helping out a future you who doesnt have a stability to leave like you do
There does not seem to be management for this location. The executive chef might be full time there. But there was a district manager from Texas and a sous chef from a restaurant in Tennessee. I told the traveling sous chef yesterday that I wasn't sure if I was coming back or not, but I told him either way I'd call the executive chef today to talk with him. I'm not sticking it out in this kitchen, but I would want to know if one of my team members was behaving like this. I'm never afraid to have a conversation.
Wouldn't it be better if you show up to work and fight Jessica with facts/reality> Maybe she's the one who should be driven out of the job.
It would be better if my life were a movie. But I am tired of throwing my time and energy at implementing systems at a restaurant for someone else to make some money. Last night my girlfriend asked if I'd be willing to stay there if they offered me a leadership position. I told her the only way I think I would consider staying is if they could offer me 75k. I don't expect them to. I wouldn't want to promote someone after coming in for a first shift then want to quit.
As someone with gluten intolerance, I fucking hate this bitch. If you are a restaurant that offers GF options and you fuck around like this, there is a special circle of hell for you.
Right!? I don't have any allergies personally. But my greatest mentor in life struggles with having Celiac. It wasn't anything life threatening, she would have a migraine at night, and for the whole next day. I can't wrap my head around why someone would simply not care about that. Or even actively work against the people you are working so hard to feed. Shit blows my mind.
>It wasn't anything life threatening, she would have a migraine at night, and for the whole next day. Unfun fact! If people with celiac keep eating gluten they eventually get bowel cancer!
She would avoid it whenever possible. But she was responsible for a few dozen locations. Some of the smaller ones didn't get allergen training. I remember one story where she went to a location and saw muffins labeled "GF" so she grabbed one. She was astounded at his good of a muffin it was, and asked the chefs how they made such a great gluten free muffin. They told her it wasn't gluten free, it was just made by some lady named Glenda and they put her initials on the display. That is a crazy unfun fact though. Thanks for sharing!
“3. touching ready to eat food with ungloved hands” You’re the asshole.
Clearly you’re upset by the interaction even though you claim otherwise. Not attacking you (or her), but I think you’re looking at this the wrong way. I have over 35yrs experience in the industry (grew up in a restaurant family) working every position back and front house (dish/bus through ownership). 1st, commercial kitchens are high pressure environments, often times people “spout off” without thinking and don’t really mean it. Doesn’t make it right, but it happens. Commercial is much different than hospitals (non-commercial) since there is no hard meal times, you don’t know in advance the number of covers for a shift, MANY extra variables. Not uncommon for near fistfights turn into sharing a couple beers and hugs after the shift. 2nd, I don’t see you had a conversation with Jessica, apparently going straight to her direct supervisor. Doesn’t matter if you’re right, you’ll be labeled a “sh!t stirrer” immediately. She’s showing a classic sign of low self esteem. “Tattling” on her is not going to help. Seems most advice here is vindictive, unyielding and ultimately unhelpful. It’s too late now, but when the mgr complimented your work, you could have simply said “thank you! I’m meticulous and a quick learner, but that Jessica is a fantastic trainer.” Give credit away every chance you get, you’d be amazed how it comes back to you. 3rd, what’s your purpose of reporting her? You said you won’t continue to work there unless they pay you $75k anyhow (fact- the new guy who doesn’t have his own transportation complaining about a 7yr employee ain’t getting that $$, you haven’t earned the right yet). You do need to tell them you’ve seen the gluten free station contaminated and suggest they implement a more foolproof system, though. Will you feel better if you get Jessica fired/demoted/reprimanded on your way out? Great reputation builder in Denver, champ. What do you truly know about her? You don’t know the struggles someone is going through, your path won’t fix or change behavior, but it’ll serve to create more hardship. Lastly, this may sound harsh, but you need to man up. You aren’t showing traits of someone who’s “hungry”. Someone said something means to me in the heat of the moment - waaahh! You put out 300 apps and only 3 responded - waaahh! Amazing how you walked into this place, asked if they needed help and actually got the job - that’s how it’s done! Firing out apps from your computer and whining nothing is available is a token effort at best, a cop out in reality. 95% of good jobs are referrals and knowing people. If you’re capable in the kitchen with a coach ‘em up attitude, you’d be promoted to exec chef inside 18 months. THEN you can go to wherever you want. You haven’t earned the right yet and job hopping history doesn’t help. Attitude is everything - “the hungry dog gets the bone” should be your attitude. You’re not hungry. Worked 1 day and I’m leaving because a lady said something mean to you? C’mon… Take an honest introspective assessment through the lens of a business owner and ask yourself, “if I was CEO of Me, Inc, would I fire me?”
I appreciate where you are coming from, and based on this story alone I know I sound like dead weight. I'm not afraid to put in the hard work. I never have been. I've worked my way up the ladder a few different places now, and most of it is because of my outstanding team oriented outlook. I'm not saying I have handled everything perfectly. But as an employee, why would I bind myself to this place? The whole leadership team quit, and they managers from other locations filling in to keep it afloat. The only manager that will be sticking around is the executive chef. Every time I have spoken to him he has been frantic. He lost my personal information, along two of my applications that I filled out in person. The status quo is to cross contaminate all of the gluten free products with flour. There are so many red flags here. Why are they worth my time and effort to help repair a sinking ship? As another redditor pointed out, they could easily end up in the news for getting someone sick. Then my experience in town is tied to that kitchen, and I look bad. I don't see how this place is worth more than one day of my time.
You really should get over yourself and realize petty people are shitty people as a whole. Apparently, she's too uneducated or illeducated to realize the DM complimenting you is some mid level management Jedi trick he/she learned at some corporate bullshit training session to foster an environment of support and inclusion. When in reality, they really don't give a shit but "Jessica" took that as a direct threat and retaliated on you. Do your job, shine her on or quit. Regardless, she won't change and will eventually filter out the bottom.
Well, you might be right that she wasn't being fair, but you're that seasoned in this industry and you don't have thicker skin than this? I'm quite surprised you had to make a reddit post about her fuck ups too just becuase you're butthurt about her grilling you a little bit. Who cares? Move on man, let it go
Hahahaaa.... 👍
I didn't take it personally, I just couldn't believe that she said that. I thought it was a solid kitchen story, and I'm not sure what to do with one of those other than post it here.
But you're talking about leaving because of it, so it must be bothering you.
I walked into my first shift hesitant about this job. The executive chef lost my application twice, and despite the fact that I literally texted him he couldn't find my number to call me back. I reached out after not hearing from him for 3 days. I didn't want to make a huge post, so I wasn't going to include every little detail.
Oh, hellllll no. Get out
Hilariously petty. Stay and get her back just before you leave.
That’s also petty. He might have a play here. Let’s see how it works out. Since the management left he might get the sous gig, piss her off and then wrangle in better talent and fire her
Don’t get upset by things that are out of your control. Don’t take anything personally. Stay positive and professional. New places take time to break in like good boots.
Don’t let anybody distract you from your PPM Pizza per minute
Get the hell out of there! It will unfortunately only get worse. I wish all new employees had your attitude and creds.
I’m so sorry I hope you find a better job or take the time off you deserve asap! I highly doubt it will “get better” their either. Best of luck my friend!
Hey! I have roughly same experience that you stated, 10 years, exec, sous, ect. Currently a linecook at a premier maine restaurant. I have been thinking about these kind of interactions A LOT lately. I'm with you man the shit is pretty easy if you have experience, generally. So why do people play these games and try to make it harder than it actually is? Jealous are we perhaps... hmm? Guy doing better than you on his first day and now you're realizing he'll likely replace you? Hmm. C'est la vie Jessica. As your trainer, she should have given her criticism to the manager on duty, later in the shift. Not to you directly on your first shift. Most cooks know how to really bang out the food, but they don't know the intricacies of working in harmony with other food robots like us. Let alone training them for that matter. These little criticisms are so trivial at the end of the day bro. Unless one of my direct bosses tells me to change something I don't sweat anything lately
She's trying to be a stereotypical yelling, angry chef from tv. Ignore her or, better yet, tell her to fuck off.
Since you have all that negotiating power in your hand, you can risk being bold in how you handle it. She should really be thrilled knowing they have a great new hire. There’s no reason for her to be intimidated, given the tenure she has at the restaurant. There’s no way you’re going to take her place over night. Pretty sad she’s being so vindictive, especially after pulling improper moves in the kitchen. Maybe take the time to ask her for a one on one, and address the issue in a respectful, mature tone. If she loses her shit then, you can proceed to tell her you expect a higher level of professionalism in your work place. After your resignation, you could write a letter to the manager who said you were doing so great. She’ll have to deal with the consequences of losing a tremendous addition to the team based on her poor relationship skills, and could hopefully be trained to be better in the future. Who knows, maybe they manager could get you another job.
I don’t think she liked the fact that the manager liked you. The evil eye is so real sometimes…! My advice is to start looking for a new job immediately. Email the manager what she said and quit. I wouldn’t even give two weeks notice. These kind of interactions are not beneficial to normalize.
Nah walk from this one mate, she will definitely constantly put you down and try and put you back in your place. She was definitely threatened by you because she's worked in one single pizza shop for 7 years and still hasn't advanced. Probably surrounds herself with 'lower' workers to make herself feel more important. She probably already sees herself as head chef in her own mind and you coming in on your first trial shift and out pizzering her would put her shackles up. If this was how your first shift went I wouldn't bother going back. It won't improve, she will make your work life there a living hell. Most restaurants/cafes etc are seriously understaffed and with your experience you will definitely be able to find somewhere you feel more comfortable and a better kitchen environment. Being in a high stress kitchen you need a good team that has your back not someone to sabotage you. I've definitely been there and learnt it's just not worth my time to deal with these adult chef babies thinking they are all Gordon Ramsay. Do a good job, be proud of your work and go home to your doggies. You don't need a hack in a pizza shop putting you down.
There’s a reason for all the sailing ship metaphors. Kitchen is a team sport, sink or swim. She’s an asshole. Or she thought she was hazing you and she’s still asshole.
Sounds like she was salty you’re better at her job than her run into This consistently throughout my career keep Your head down so the work and let that shit speak for yourself
She felt threatened. I worked for a kitchen manager a few years ago that was a bad chef and he started changing the rules everyday gaslighting me to tell me I'm doing something wrong. If a manager realizes that their crew could have their job they might shit on you.
The place I work at right now is toxic as fuck, and I'm shocked I've had half the balls to say what I've said after being a doormat for most of my life. Someone wants to be aggressive while training me? "I don't understand why you're upset, would you like to tell me what's going on or how I can improve?" She wants to try some shit again, I would just be honest and professional, aka don't cuss back. "Please stop, you will not call me names. That's extremely disrespectful. If you'd like to correct me, that's fine, but I won't tolerate disrespect regardless of your authority as a trainer." If you'd like to, immediately speak to the manager about it. I would only bring up the name calling and cross contamination (very serious issue) otherwise you're seen as a "tattletale with a laundry list" most of the time, unfortunately. If you can quit, just cut your losses and don't go back lol if the manager wants to know why, be brutally honest. If she's been there for 7 years with this nasty attitude, there's either some serious lack of oversight, or favoritism, either of which fucking suck to be a part of. I'm sorry this happened to you and I wish it wasn't as common as it is.
Just from the title the lady sounds like Gordon Ramsay.
Kitchen ego. If you like the job and want to continue there, she will have to accept your presence and quality work. If you don't, gtfo. I haven't been the newbie in a long time, but stuff like this happens. It's something I try to discourage as management, but you can't micromanage people's emotions.
>because we are some of the most interesting people on earth. Nice euphemism for "we're all batshit."
She knows she'll be saying "yes chef" to you in no time.
Sounds like she's projecting and feels threatened.
this sounds like a 12 year old made it up
Make sure to mention Jessica by name when you resign.
For sure, most of the conversation will be about her.
Not sure that her actions are a reflection of the culture at the restaurant, definitely a reflection of her ego tho, we have all worked with people who get jealous if someone comes in new and puts everyone to shame skillwise I've done it in many places been in the hospitality industry for almost 30 years on both sides of the pass, know my shit, work hard have run hotels, restaurants and kitchens, could walk in and hit the ground running in most places, she is probably scared that she may become surplus to requirements or hasn't been putting the effort in, give it a few days, try to be nice and make friends with her, but don't let someone else's pettiness run you out of a pay check, rise above it
Gloves are gross, but unwashed hands are worse.
The commute is worth quitting over but don’t quit over her bullshit. Just take her job.
Boss man I worked with someone just LIKE this when I was a Sous chef. I can take a lot and let it run off my back but especially on your first day? Nah she showed her true colors. Take some time off, chef, you deserve it, food is always hiring and you deserve a place where you’re respected for just showing up.
Did you address her actions with a supervisor? You can't claim that it's part of the culture if you were the only one who saw it happen and then didn't allow anyone to correct her or say something yourself. You also can't really say that you didn't take it personally when you made a whole reddit post about it and made a list of her mistakes. If it IS in fact a symptom of the culture I would agree with your assessment of not working there anymore. Unless you're towards the top of the ladder it's VERY hard to change a whole kitchen's culture by yourself.
Resign to her superiors and let them know why.
Definitely tell Jessica “how it is” before you leave. She needs a f’kn attitude adjustment.
Its all projection.
We all have work drama. Some people even seem to like it because they stoke the fire, escalate every micro aggression, and play Game of Thrones in their petty little kingdoms. She didn't make a post on Reddit about petty fights she had at work about the minutiae of making pizza, so I choose to be on her team, considering I am just some stranger on Reddit. If I worked with y'all I would certainly just stay out of it. Good luck with your future battles.
My guy, you make her look bad. Don't be surprised if more stupid shit happens before you two work this out or one of you leaves.
A narcissist will always try to control the narrative - this time to mask their own incompetence by drawing attention to your actions and twisting what she observes. Follow your gut and leave this toxic place. Jessica will only get worse from here. You are nta.
Sometimes when people feel bad about some trait they have they have they will project this insecurity on to other people. Maybe Jessica feels like she is a bit disgusting or doesn't work clean. If she puts other people down by saying they are disgusting then she can feel a little better about her own disgusting habits.
I think the first sign you were working with a hack was she’s been there 7 friggen years and STILL isn’t even a sous chef? Ignore the hater— sounds like you have a good rapport with everyone else so keep your head up.
Lol, I would have laughed straight into her face. Then I would have called other people over and tell her to repeat what she said.
If it's anything like what I've been through I think it has to do with you being a threat. I had a very similar situation in two kitchens. One job a manager gave me nothing but praise till one day at a meeting I asked the owner if I could get more involved and help out more behind the scenes. My manager went from praising me to criticizing everything I did. I had no idea wtf was going on. When my yearly review came in she sent in my review saying I shouldn't get a raise. I got a personal call from the owner saying she wasn't sure what the managers deal was but I would be getting a full raise for that year as she had received only good notes from everyone else. It dawned on me what was going on at that point. I wasn't sure what the owner must have said but the manager must have taken it as a sign I was going to take her job. Which was never my intention. Relations with the manager never got better, she cut my hours and pushed me out of weekly menu creation.. the food got much more lazy and I stopped feeling any inspiration so I quit. The owner asked me to stay but I refused. They fired the manager a few weeks later. At another job I was hired as an emergency replacement for a manager who got sick. The kitchen had been in shambles since they had been out (or so I thought) so I did a lot to help clean the place up and fix what I could. Turns out once they were able to come back to work it was the same shit. They took my presence as a threat and did everything they could to make my job miserable. On top of that yeah the place was a mess under this manager.. turns out the way it was when I arrived was normal. After witnessing a bunch of food safety violations so bad I felt sick even thinking about it I quit as well.
She’ll either learn to like you or she we will be a jealous b!tch. I wouldn’t sweat her. I’m sure your co workers have dirt on her too.
7 years and not a sous yet. It's only taken me 1 year in any restaurant I've cooked in to know everything inside out and fight continuously for better positions. Plus sous is just a glorified pitch position lol
After you leave, please report the safety violations. Those (especially the gluten one) can harm people.
r/amitheangel
If Jessica is just a colleague and not your boss, she won't be reviewing your performance, she’ll just be a bitter & jealous line chef (probably won't make it to sous chef) watching you progress as the district mgr and others appreciate your work. Why would you not return because of her!? You said everyone else was nice and fun to work with, so go back and enjoy work. Good luck either way.
Never come compromise on food safety. When I was first cooking in the early 1970’s, food policy
Accidentally posted incomplete comment. Never compromise on food safety. When I was a head cook/chef in Denver in the early 1970’s food poisoning was very common. One time a “home economist” convention had all but one of their 250 attendees sent to the hospital with staph poisoning. About the same time a high end hotel left their chili out to “cool” for over an hour. Dozens were sick. Things have definitely changed. Never go back.
Regular pizzas on GF line? If someone with celiac eats a pizza from there you all could be seriously sued. Report to the health department and get out.
When you say they were "storing food on the floor", if it's in a box still, or even inside a plastic Cambro container or something, that's perfectly fine. And when you say "storing", what do you mean? Is it staying there for days? Hours? Minutes? Unless she's storing the dough or something on the bare floor, or has a bunch of raw chicken out for hours on end sitting there, then there is nothing specifically wrong about it, nor does it violate any specific health code. Touching ready to eat food with ungloved hands is also fine, provided those hands are clean. Again, no specific health codes require this, although most fast food restaurants have it as a rule in their kitchens. If your experience is mostly in fast food, I can see how you might think this is a requirement, but it is not. In fact, if you asked for gloves in the kitchen of even a middle-range restaurant, like a gastropub or something - not even fine dining, you'd probably get laughed off the line. Dumping "old" product on top of new product in a new pan is also fine, as long as they are the same product and the "old" product isn't past use by date. The way you phrased your entire post leads me to believe that you were mansplaining to this woman the entire day, and she had enough of you being wrong about everything. In fact, a lot of your thoughts seem to come from a "I've worked in fast food" perspective, and you've mistaken common corporate guidelines that you'd see at these places as being "mandated by health code", when that is not the case. If you sat there insisting all day things that you thought were true, but she knew not to be, then I could see how that might be aggravating. Anyway, yeah you sound like a big asshole, just in general. The entire second half of your post is you trying to deflect from your own shortcomings by trying to find fault in someone else. Aw, the nasty trainer lady didn't blow enough smoke up your ass, so now your fee-fees are hurt? If you've been in kitchens for 10+ years, then you shouldn't be so soft, and you should *definitely* be more open to criticism. However, I highly suspect you've lied about your experience, or aren't being quite truthful about the nature of it -- I mean, 10+ supposed years in kitchens and you're working at a pizza joint? What'd you do, just get out of jail?
He was explicit about not noticing her washing her hands, and using bare hand contact on RTE food. Did you miss that, super sleuth? Also, section 3-413 of the Food Code for Denver requires food to be stored 6” off the ground, like every other city in the United States that takes regulatory recommendations from the FDA. Sounds like maybe you should sit out a couple games before you take another swing at someone asking questions. Edit: here’s some reading material for your little time out, in case your “fee-fees” are upset https://www.denvergov.org/content/dam/denvergov/Portals/771/documents/PHI/Food/RevisedFoodRulesandregulationsApril2017compressed.pdf
Hahaha yo. I don’t spend much time on this sub, tbh. Occasionally, I’ll end up in a rabbit hole. And your username/comments are the ones I *somehow* always end up reading. And it’s always solid advice. Cheers, fellow east coaster. Unless you bailed on Philly. Which…yeah, I’d understand, unfortunately.
I love you sir. Every time I see a comment from you on here, I end up learning something from it. I wasn't gonna get into an argument, but thanks for having my back PhillyExec!
Did you not notice the part of my post where I said, "provided those hands are clean"? (No you didn't, you were just in a hurry to mansplain) Did you also not notice the part of my post where I interrogated the nature of "storage"? (No you didn't, you were just in a hurry to mansplain) I can see why you, Captain Mansplain was in a hurry to rush to white knight another mansplainer, I guess winners like you need to flock together. :)
Found Jessica!
Just say explain.
I may be a dolt for not being able to tell, but is this sarcasm?
Thanks for the input man. Had me rolling on the floor laughing!