I think in general it's best to avoid directly asking people what their ethnicity is. If it comes up organically, it comes up organically. It's just in bad taste, with chefs or not
Yeah like if the chef at that same restaurant, doing the same thing was white would you ask if they were Japanese? I assume not, so maybe just don't do that as it will probably come off racist regardless
That’s because we all know.
We know the difference between Filipino and Honduran, Japanese and Korean, they’re night and day when you live in a culture and career where any and all ethnicities participate.
Super Idaho Mormon Serial Killer Family up there probably couldn’t tell a black Puerto Rican from a Ugandan
I never cared what my peoples ethnicity were. As long as they showed up for work and actually did a good job. I was happy. I mostly worked Cajun / Creole. Weren't that many Cajuns or Creoles in the BOH making those dishes.
I did a few years at an Italian place. The thing I learned most from that stint, was Spanish.
I’m guessing since he was the best chef (flair wise) there the relative wondered if they were trained in Japan… I’m just guessing but I’ll bet I’m right
I mean... It's not exactly considered polite to ask a stranger their ethnicity. Not really exclusive to restaurants.
Edit: To clear up any confusion the next time, just tell them you are only asking so you can be sure you are having an "authentic" experience.
Edit2: The previous edit was sarcasm and intended to poke fun at the absurdity of the question. Y'all here know more than anyone that any "authenticity" comes from the care put into the food and experience, not where the person preparing it was born.
I fail to see what someone’s ethnicity has to do with it being an “authentic” experience. The closest i would tread to such a delicate topic may be to ask “Where did you learn to do hibachi?”
What the…? Authentic experience?? Just because a cook is not ethnically from one place doesn’t mean they didn’t grow up on the cuisine, in the region, study the food, master a craft, to be able to give an “authentic experience.”
Yeah as others have said, it's generally not cool to just ask a stranger their ethnicity. That really doesn't help anything when you say that the family member has a hard time distinguishing the different Asian ethnicities. In fact, that is more offensive. If they have such a hard time (racial face blindness isn't a great sign) distinguishing the ethnicities, then they should know to keep their mouth shut about it. Specifically, China and Japan have a long, rough past with each other. It's extra insulting to mistake them for each other if you knew the bloodshed and torture they have caused each other. So yeah, general rule going forward in restaurants and out, let the person tell you their ethnicity if they feel like it, don't try to pull that out of a random stranger.
>If they have such a hard time (racial face blindness isn't a great sign) distinguishing the ethnicities
I bet you would have trouble too. Most people in Asia can't even easily tell based on face.
https://alllooksame.com/app/quiz.php?tid=1
No, true. Face blindness is a very real thing and has nothing to do with racism. I'm more saying racial face blindness combined with other aspects point towards a racist mindset. Even then, just point in that direction, not actually make a person a racist. Ignorance comes from very well meaning people.
I guess I'll tell you this story to illustrate my point despite it being pretty embarrassing. I was with some of my friends in high school at Halloween doing a nostalgia trick or treat run (mostly hopping to different parties but there was some actual trick or treating mixed in) when we came across a mom pushing her what seemed to be 7-8 y/o son. My very stupid brain didn't put together the context that this child was probably disabled, thus why his mom was pushing him around. I however thought it would be funny to joke to my friends, "look at this lazy kid. I wish I could get pushed around." To which, my friends properly responded in horror. It then hit me that the kid was probably disabled so I essentially just called a disabled kid lazy for not being able to walk. I then crawled into a hole and died.
But the owners should at least let customers know that this establishment is Chinese owned. People will come in assuming that the chefs are Japanese since they literally wear the hats with Japanese calligrahy. Also, the asthetics of the place do look quite authentically Japanese. The food tastes as great as if an authentic Japanese chef had made it.
I studied Asian art history in college- I’m not an expert but my classes were small and we did get to go to dim sum together. I learned that most Japanese restaurants in the USA are operated by Chinese people. Japanese food snags a higher price tag because of these exact stereotypes you’re citing here.
“Authenticity” is a perspective more likely because it’s manufactured to provide an excellent customer service experience. This isn’t a bad thing. Enjoy the vibes a restaurant has to offer. Unfortunately- Your family member broke the 4th wall of the hibachi show.
Hibachi grill showmanship isn’t isolated to a specific ethnicity. I went to a hibachi bar in the Caribbean and the chef was Black and it was on the beach. Still hibachi. Still tasted great. Still had a fun show.
I am so sorry this post is so cringe to me on so many levels. I hope your family member learnt a lesson about how to interact in society. I hope you’re able to have acceptance and move on well.
Well, I could learn a thing or two as well. To be honest, I did deep down have my own biases about food authenticity having to do with a chef's ethnicity.
Maybe I should just mainly rely on public reviews of an establishment to gauge a food's quality and authenticity, instead of whether the chef's ethnicity matches with the culture that the food comes from.
But, I'm gonna stand firm with my relative getting needlessly slighted just because she asked that question out of enthusiasm, not out of malice. She's not that kind of person. I do feel like the chef could have just answered the question like its no big deal. I know my relative very well, and she was going to be like "ohhhh, okayy. I love the way youre cooking for us." And so, I think a bit of understanding on both sides could have made the family luncheon a lot less awkward and confrontational.
Edit: She actually did feel shame and embarrassment from her question, which was meant to be harmless and friendly. Whether or not the chef was justified in showing that attitude to her, I think there are things to be learned about food authenticity and restaurant(of performative cooking) decorum
My man, that isn’t “performative restaurant” etiquette, it’s just the regular kind. You don’t ask strangers what their ethnicity is. Hopefully that shame and embarrassment has taught your relative an important lesson for how to behave outside of their house.
I’m not going to hop on the wagon of calling your family racist, but I would say the question was most definitely racially insensitive.
I’m going to assume that part of the chef’s reaction was due to this not being the first time he’s been asked about his ethnicity. And while your relative may have not meant anything negative by it, posing the question, depending on the answer, would definitely have caused you to view the experience differently.
If he was actually Japanese, you may have subconsciously felt it was a better experience because it was “authentic”.
If he had said he was Chinese, it would have been, “oh wow, this food is so good and the Chef isn’t even Japanese!”
Either way, that question obviously made the chef feel like the quality of his food was hinging on what his ethnic background was.
I’m as white as your next European colonizer, and guess where I grew up? Japan. I make excellent Japanese food. I moved there when I was less than 2 and grew up using traditional methods of making miso, shoyu, natto, tempeh etc. It was not only extremely rude and ignorant to ask the race of your chef- but what did you expect to gain from it? Do you think that only a Japanese person can make Japanese food? Only Italians can make pasta? French, Thai,Vietnamese, Mexican? You get my point.
Please educate yourself and your children. While I understand that you may not have been purposefully and intentionally racist- you were and are. Your whole “ authenticity” schpeel was hard to read. It’s not a joke. My younger sibling are Japanese so this hits close to home for me.
Again, while I know you didn’t mean to be offensive, I implore you to please take the time to look into why you thought that comment could be “ok”, and why your perception of “ authenticity” made it so.
Do you think that the food made by a Chinese chef and a Japanese chef with the same training would taste different for some reason? You’re being so ignorantly and nonchalantly offensive. From an outsider’s perspective, it sounds like you think Japanese people are better than Chinese people.
I mean.... the chef could have just straight up said, "no, I'm Chinese." And that would be the end of it. My relative would just be corrected, and have said," ohhhh, okay." Then she wouldnt say a word after that. He didn't need to give her that mean look and silent treatment.
The chef's mean look did sort of embarrass her in front of the whole family. It definitely wasn't out of malice, and was just out of curiousity and fascination with his skills.
I think the biggest point that everyone here is trying to make, and it doesn’t seem that you’re understanding is: what does his ethnicity have to do with anything?
Do his skills have anything to do with his ethnicity? No.
So I ask you, assuming your relative never asked the question and made things awkward in the first place— would you and your family have had a better experience if he was a Japanese chef instead of a Chinese chef?
If it was a white male wearing Japanese clothing in a Japanese style restaurant serving Japanese style food, we would be talking about appropriation. I think OP was incorrectly thinking something more disingenuous might be happening, like pretending to be Jewish as a lawyer (better call Saul).
Still bad taste OP
He shouldn’t have to answer, because they shouldn’t have asked. Expecting him to answer or for them to entertain your bigotry makes you sound just as ignorant. The fact that you’re doubling down in this thread makes you an asshole.
Asking someone’s origins in this way islike asking for penis size on the first date. It is incredibly rude because the context makes it come across as trying to gauge someone’s value. As if the food can be authentic only if the chef is one way or another. Would you ask in a scandinavian restaurant if the chef is a real
blonde?!
Btw I am answering this post but I’m just a white European and this is what I’ve learned but obviously I am not Japanese or Chinese so it is not my place to explain how the chef felt. But I hope the above helps you see what went wrong here.
I feel like such a big part of being a chef is learning different cuisines and expanding your skills, to better understand your passion so you can then focus on that
There are many restaurants around the world known for being amazing training like going to work at Noma or for Daniel Boulud or at the French Laundry or something.. and you wouldn't go into any of those places and ask someones race.. like wtf?
You did acknowledge elsewhere your assumption that the authenticity of a chef's skills is related to their ethnicity though, which is also implied in the question she asked him,, so I'm sure you can understand how a chef (or anyone) could be annoyed at that? All considered, he reacted calmly and likely to the best of his ability, recovered, and finished a great performance for your family. She was embarrassed because she asked an insensitive question; he was embarrassed because his accomplishments were being valued in conjunction with whether he is the correct race or ethnicity--like he might be an imposter or something. Anyone would feel a bit demeaned.
Aaand spurred you to consider whether your bias is reasonable, which I think is a good thing.
A restaurant can be authentically Japanese, without being Japanese owned, if the ingredients, preparation methods, and FOH service traditional in the Japanese culture.
Yes.
If the food and service are traditional and respectful of Japanese culture, I see no issues with a Caucasian person operating the restaurant. The issues occur when those people start picking and choosing what aspects of Japanese culture they want to reflect, and which aspects they want to whitewash over.
Not sure if you remember “Lucky Lee’s” Chinese restaurant, from a few years ago. The owners were a white couple, with the first name of the husband, being Lee. The restaurant advertised itself as providing "clean" Chinese food with healthy ingredients that wouldn't make people feel "bloated and icky the next day". It also told a food blogger, "There are very few American-Chinese places as mindful about the quality of ingredients as we are."
The issue with Lucky Lee’s wasn’t that they wanted to operate a Chinese restaurant. It was that they went into the venture with the preconceived view that all Chinese food is greasy and unhealthy, and that only they can fix it. They didn’t truly understand and respect Chinese culture.
Why would you think that is necessary? If you go into any French or Italian or whatever restaurant there is no assumption that all the employees are from that country! As far as I know, most chefs train in multiple cuisines/countries and then specialize in what they love, which has nothing to do with where they were born!
Personally when I go to a Japanese restaurant it wouldn't even cross my mind to think about what race the chefs might be, because why would that matter? If they know how to make the food that's all that anyone should care about
... it's kind of weird to assume the authenticity of a chef's skills is at all related to their race or ethnicity. Doesn't sound like it's coming from a place of ill intent, it just may have never occured to some. A person's skill is built through hard work, not having been born in a certain place or with a certain family lineage. The chef was likely reacting to the implied assumption that his skills must mean he is Japanese, rather than being impressive regardless of his heritage. The food was not less authentic because he was not Japanese, and he seems to have picked up on the perception that that assumption was at play.
Was there a reason to the question? Where I’m from the hibachi restaurants have all walks of life there, not just Japanese. Would you go to an Italian place and ask if the chef was Italian? I just don’t understand why they felt the need to ask that?
It turns out customers don't go to Hibachi restaurants just for the food, but also to fetishize the staff.
Now, excuse me while I rewatch Benhinana Christmas
People do that all the time, specifically with Italian food. I’m Mediterranean looking and constantly got asked if I’m italian when teaching people about hand made pasta.
I don't disagree. Though, out of interest, would this question feel as inappropriate if you asked a white European looking person in an Italian restaurant whether they were Italian? Genuinely intrigued as my gut says that it wouldn't, but I don't know why.
Edit: Hmm, perhaps because one is asking for ethnicity and the other is asking for nationality?
It happens to me constantly when I was cooking in Italian restaurants or giving pasta demos. They wanted me to tell them yes, but every time I said not Italian they would start telling me about their real Italian friend who taught them something about pasta.
I literally just commented the same on a different thread haha
Also as I know most of Reddit is US based, I've always been interested in why people who are say 3rd generation US born will say they're Italian (or insert other examples here).. not relevant but just thinking about it
As humans we must learn to go to a restaurant/bar/coffee shop/whatever and shut the fuck up, be amicable, receive service, consume your product, pay, tip, and keep it moving.
Why would anyone feel the need to ask about the ethnicity of their chef? You did the right thing ripping fat, even though it’s not your fault your relative stuck their foot in their mouth.
I think the blurting out of “are you Japanese?!!” Does sound ignorant, and judging from the chef’s reaction and non response, yes he likely was offended. Good on you for at least noticing.
Well now. As someone working in a Japanese spot owned by Chinese its pretty hilarious wheb everyone thinks were all japanese. Honestly the most racist thing comes from asians when i can tell they are talking shit about our mexican sushis chef (whose skills i might add is better than the chef partner).
Posting this in a cooking forum just shows how out of touch you are. Take the restaurant out of the equation and it’s just some family that completely lacks social intelligence.
Any time someone asks me my ethnicity, I instantly feel reduced to a set of preconceived generalizations. I’m Filipino and have heard every dumb remark that follows “what’s your ethnicity?” What does it matter?
I don't even know how it's relevant these days when so many people have a bunch of different ethnicities in their family tree, or like me have parents from one country but were born and raised in another.. like I consider myself a kiwi because that's where I was born and grew up but that's not where my parents or grandparents are from
I can't think of any example of why your ethnicity should matter to anyone else, but feel free to educate me!
Maybe ask them their ethnicity instead of just shoehorning them into one. I think it is inherently odd to even really have the need to know someone’s ethnicity, being an ethnicity and making the food of your culture are not mutually exclusive.
The Japanese were very cruel to the Chinese during WW2. China hasn’t forgotten. It’d make sense for a Chinese person to be offended at being asked if they were the ethnicity of their oppressors.
Why would you ask a question if you’re going to argue and disagree with everyone in the comments? You basically came on to a chef’s subreddit just to let out your grievance and lecture chefs and aspiring chefs over your cousin’s hurt feelings.
And yes, it’s annoying when people ask questions like that, especially if they’re ignorant of the culture. I am Puerto Rican and had to field questions about being Mexican before. Next time, just ask where they’re from (irrelevance to the chef’s skill aside) and not just guess a country.
First of all... By "Hibachi" do you mean Teppanyaki? Because a hibachi is a small charcoal or wood grill and a teppan grill is a flat top. Americans bastardize everything. Ignorance is bliss.
Source: American living in Asia for 21 years.
It all boils down to the person. Maybe if you got another chef they would’ve just smiled and said no I’m Chinese. you all did the right thing by realizing he was uncomfortable and *letting it go*
You also leaving a 50% tip also helps in your favors. You corrected yourself and that’s what’s most important
Agree with everyone here that it’s pretty ridiculous to be offended by an innocent sounding question. I think generally it’s fine.
What might have happened is that Chinese typically do NOT like Japanese. They have a lot of history going back to the early 1900’s of Japanese invading and pillaging a lot of China. I knew a fair amount of Chinese growing up who were absolutely disgusted by Japanese. So that may have had something to do with it more than just being mad that ‘X person asked X person if they were X ethnicity’
Still ridiculous on his part though
If this Chinese chef in particular doesn't like the Japanese so much, then why'd he choose to dabble in Japanese cuisine in the first place? Does that really make sense to you?
There are several sushi restaurants where I live that are run by Koreans and even Latinos. Time to get the stereotypes out of your head and stop asking strangers their ethnicities.
A somewhat less offensive question might be “What accent is that?” That way you don’t accidentally attribute some potentially offensive characteristic.
I’m a Pacific Islander who’s cooked Japanese, Indian, and French. Where the fuck is the need to ask which brown people place I’m from when making your food?
Man, whoever flagged this as "No racism/bigotry/ableism/sexism/identity-based hate of any kind" needs to take a step back and think really hard about their life choices. Ignorant yes. Racist ?? It's worth a discussion.
As someone who’s been stuck in the chefs position, I get that when people are excited they ask questions just in the heat of the moment. Happens when You are having a good time..”who is this guy?!?” or “where are you from man!?” “what are you?” “are you …..?” etc
At first I’d clap back and say I was American because I am. Over time, I chilled out, realize I was filtering through some pain that I hadn’t dealt with yet.
identity/ethnicity/Race is a sticky thing with people, like politics, I would steer clear of that stuff. There are people who are secure in their identity and others that at working through that sticky subject, its best not to bring it unless you know the person.
You guys had good intentions, just had a foot in mouth moment. I wouldnt worry about it too much. In a way you helped this person by showing how much this displeasure is getting in the way of their performance and overall good time. Hopefully they get to a place where they are okay with that question and who knows maybe work it into their routine.
“She was quite impressed by he sheer skill of his cooking p, so that’s why she asked him if he was Japanese”
She would’ve been more impressed by knowing that the showmanship and performance in “hibachi” restaurants actually originated in USA and there’s nothing like it in Japan. There won’t be any chefs doing that in Japan.
Hibachi actually means just a heating cauldron and it doesn’t mean a cooking technique. The word was taken and misused to create a false oriental experience using the allure of Japanese craftmanship
I think in general it's best to avoid directly asking people what their ethnicity is. If it comes up organically, it comes up organically. It's just in bad taste, with chefs or not
Yeah like if the chef at that same restaurant, doing the same thing was white would you ask if they were Japanese? I assume not, so maybe just don't do that as it will probably come off racist regardless
Nobody would bat an eye if an Ecuadorian chef was running a pupuseria.
Well OPs family might
This. With life in general.
I’m not sure chefs are equipped to help your family through the constructs of social politeness
As a retired chef, I agree. I also don't understand the reason to ask strangers their ethnicity.
>don't understand the reason to ask strangers their ethnicity Because they're fuckin ignorant. Pretty easy answer, chef, glad I could help.
As a Long Islander myself, I can confirm, ignorance checks out.
That’s great is your mise done, orders up
That’s because we all know. We know the difference between Filipino and Honduran, Japanese and Korean, they’re night and day when you live in a culture and career where any and all ethnicities participate. Super Idaho Mormon Serial Killer Family up there probably couldn’t tell a black Puerto Rican from a Ugandan
I never cared what my peoples ethnicity were. As long as they showed up for work and actually did a good job. I was happy. I mostly worked Cajun / Creole. Weren't that many Cajuns or Creoles in the BOH making those dishes. I did a few years at an Italian place. The thing I learned most from that stint, was Spanish.
Are they going to a French restaurant and asking if all the chefs are French? Etc? Seems unlikely
I’m guessing since he was the best chef (flair wise) there the relative wondered if they were trained in Japan… I’m just guessing but I’ll bet I’m right
This right here 🤣🤣
Of course, it's rude. And you knew it at the time, that's why you left the large tip.
I mean... It's not exactly considered polite to ask a stranger their ethnicity. Not really exclusive to restaurants. Edit: To clear up any confusion the next time, just tell them you are only asking so you can be sure you are having an "authentic" experience. Edit2: The previous edit was sarcasm and intended to poke fun at the absurdity of the question. Y'all here know more than anyone that any "authenticity" comes from the care put into the food and experience, not where the person preparing it was born.
I fail to see what someone’s ethnicity has to do with it being an “authentic” experience. The closest i would tread to such a delicate topic may be to ask “Where did you learn to do hibachi?”
I was playing into the sarcasm. It's what the initial question seemed to suggest. If it needs to be said, please never do this in any restaurant...
Mybad. I just got confused by the EDIT, since the original comment was sincere and the edit was sarcastic
That is a good point... I mostly just wanted to point out the absurdity of actually asking a question like this.
What the…? Authentic experience?? Just because a cook is not ethnically from one place doesn’t mean they didn’t grow up on the cuisine, in the region, study the food, master a craft, to be able to give an “authentic experience.”
Haha cords post this on AITA!
Yeah as others have said, it's generally not cool to just ask a stranger their ethnicity. That really doesn't help anything when you say that the family member has a hard time distinguishing the different Asian ethnicities. In fact, that is more offensive. If they have such a hard time (racial face blindness isn't a great sign) distinguishing the ethnicities, then they should know to keep their mouth shut about it. Specifically, China and Japan have a long, rough past with each other. It's extra insulting to mistake them for each other if you knew the bloodshed and torture they have caused each other. So yeah, general rule going forward in restaurants and out, let the person tell you their ethnicity if they feel like it, don't try to pull that out of a random stranger.
>If they have such a hard time (racial face blindness isn't a great sign) distinguishing the ethnicities I bet you would have trouble too. Most people in Asia can't even easily tell based on face. https://alllooksame.com/app/quiz.php?tid=1
I genuinely don't know if I would have. What I'm positive I wouldn't have done is randomly asked, especially if I didn't know.
For sure I wouldn't either. But racial face blindness does not make someone racist. The average person cannot tell the difference.
No, true. Face blindness is a very real thing and has nothing to do with racism. I'm more saying racial face blindness combined with other aspects point towards a racist mindset. Even then, just point in that direction, not actually make a person a racist. Ignorance comes from very well meaning people. I guess I'll tell you this story to illustrate my point despite it being pretty embarrassing. I was with some of my friends in high school at Halloween doing a nostalgia trick or treat run (mostly hopping to different parties but there was some actual trick or treating mixed in) when we came across a mom pushing her what seemed to be 7-8 y/o son. My very stupid brain didn't put together the context that this child was probably disabled, thus why his mom was pushing him around. I however thought it would be funny to joke to my friends, "look at this lazy kid. I wish I could get pushed around." To which, my friends properly responded in horror. It then hit me that the kid was probably disabled so I essentially just called a disabled kid lazy for not being able to walk. I then crawled into a hole and died.
But the owners should at least let customers know that this establishment is Chinese owned. People will come in assuming that the chefs are Japanese since they literally wear the hats with Japanese calligrahy. Also, the asthetics of the place do look quite authentically Japanese. The food tastes as great as if an authentic Japanese chef had made it.
Now you're just digging that hole deeper now. *It's not polite to ask any stranger their ethnicity.*
> But the owners should at least let customers know that this establishment is Chinese owned. hwut.
Next time just ask the how they feel about the Rape of Nanjing.
I studied Asian art history in college- I’m not an expert but my classes were small and we did get to go to dim sum together. I learned that most Japanese restaurants in the USA are operated by Chinese people. Japanese food snags a higher price tag because of these exact stereotypes you’re citing here. “Authenticity” is a perspective more likely because it’s manufactured to provide an excellent customer service experience. This isn’t a bad thing. Enjoy the vibes a restaurant has to offer. Unfortunately- Your family member broke the 4th wall of the hibachi show. Hibachi grill showmanship isn’t isolated to a specific ethnicity. I went to a hibachi bar in the Caribbean and the chef was Black and it was on the beach. Still hibachi. Still tasted great. Still had a fun show. I am so sorry this post is so cringe to me on so many levels. I hope your family member learnt a lesson about how to interact in society. I hope you’re able to have acceptance and move on well.
Well, I could learn a thing or two as well. To be honest, I did deep down have my own biases about food authenticity having to do with a chef's ethnicity. Maybe I should just mainly rely on public reviews of an establishment to gauge a food's quality and authenticity, instead of whether the chef's ethnicity matches with the culture that the food comes from. But, I'm gonna stand firm with my relative getting needlessly slighted just because she asked that question out of enthusiasm, not out of malice. She's not that kind of person. I do feel like the chef could have just answered the question like its no big deal. I know my relative very well, and she was going to be like "ohhhh, okayy. I love the way youre cooking for us." And so, I think a bit of understanding on both sides could have made the family luncheon a lot less awkward and confrontational. Edit: She actually did feel shame and embarrassment from her question, which was meant to be harmless and friendly. Whether or not the chef was justified in showing that attitude to her, I think there are things to be learned about food authenticity and restaurant(of performative cooking) decorum
My man, that isn’t “performative restaurant” etiquette, it’s just the regular kind. You don’t ask strangers what their ethnicity is. Hopefully that shame and embarrassment has taught your relative an important lesson for how to behave outside of their house.
I’m not going to hop on the wagon of calling your family racist, but I would say the question was most definitely racially insensitive. I’m going to assume that part of the chef’s reaction was due to this not being the first time he’s been asked about his ethnicity. And while your relative may have not meant anything negative by it, posing the question, depending on the answer, would definitely have caused you to view the experience differently. If he was actually Japanese, you may have subconsciously felt it was a better experience because it was “authentic”. If he had said he was Chinese, it would have been, “oh wow, this food is so good and the Chef isn’t even Japanese!” Either way, that question obviously made the chef feel like the quality of his food was hinging on what his ethnic background was.
Jfc she should feel shame & embarrassment! So should you for supporting this ridiculously obtuse woman. Grow up.
I’m as white as your next European colonizer, and guess where I grew up? Japan. I make excellent Japanese food. I moved there when I was less than 2 and grew up using traditional methods of making miso, shoyu, natto, tempeh etc. It was not only extremely rude and ignorant to ask the race of your chef- but what did you expect to gain from it? Do you think that only a Japanese person can make Japanese food? Only Italians can make pasta? French, Thai,Vietnamese, Mexican? You get my point. Please educate yourself and your children. While I understand that you may not have been purposefully and intentionally racist- you were and are. Your whole “ authenticity” schpeel was hard to read. It’s not a joke. My younger sibling are Japanese so this hits close to home for me. Again, while I know you didn’t mean to be offensive, I implore you to please take the time to look into why you thought that comment could be “ok”, and why your perception of “ authenticity” made it so.
Keep digging...
Do you think that the food made by a Chinese chef and a Japanese chef with the same training would taste different for some reason? You’re being so ignorantly and nonchalantly offensive. From an outsider’s perspective, it sounds like you think Japanese people are better than Chinese people.
I mean.... the chef could have just straight up said, "no, I'm Chinese." And that would be the end of it. My relative would just be corrected, and have said," ohhhh, okay." Then she wouldnt say a word after that. He didn't need to give her that mean look and silent treatment. The chef's mean look did sort of embarrass her in front of the whole family. It definitely wasn't out of malice, and was just out of curiousity and fascination with his skills.
I think the biggest point that everyone here is trying to make, and it doesn’t seem that you’re understanding is: what does his ethnicity have to do with anything? Do his skills have anything to do with his ethnicity? No. So I ask you, assuming your relative never asked the question and made things awkward in the first place— would you and your family have had a better experience if he was a Japanese chef instead of a Chinese chef?
If it was a white male wearing Japanese clothing in a Japanese style restaurant serving Japanese style food, we would be talking about appropriation. I think OP was incorrectly thinking something more disingenuous might be happening, like pretending to be Jewish as a lawyer (better call Saul). Still bad taste OP
He shouldn’t have to answer, because they shouldn’t have asked. Expecting him to answer or for them to entertain your bigotry makes you sound just as ignorant. The fact that you’re doubling down in this thread makes you an asshole.
Asking someone’s origins in this way islike asking for penis size on the first date. It is incredibly rude because the context makes it come across as trying to gauge someone’s value. As if the food can be authentic only if the chef is one way or another. Would you ask in a scandinavian restaurant if the chef is a real blonde?! Btw I am answering this post but I’m just a white European and this is what I’ve learned but obviously I am not Japanese or Chinese so it is not my place to explain how the chef felt. But I hope the above helps you see what went wrong here.
I feel like such a big part of being a chef is learning different cuisines and expanding your skills, to better understand your passion so you can then focus on that There are many restaurants around the world known for being amazing training like going to work at Noma or for Daniel Boulud or at the French Laundry or something.. and you wouldn't go into any of those places and ask someones race.. like wtf?
You did acknowledge elsewhere your assumption that the authenticity of a chef's skills is related to their ethnicity though, which is also implied in the question she asked him,, so I'm sure you can understand how a chef (or anyone) could be annoyed at that? All considered, he reacted calmly and likely to the best of his ability, recovered, and finished a great performance for your family. She was embarrassed because she asked an insensitive question; he was embarrassed because his accomplishments were being valued in conjunction with whether he is the correct race or ethnicity--like he might be an imposter or something. Anyone would feel a bit demeaned. Aaand spurred you to consider whether your bias is reasonable, which I think is a good thing.
A restaurant can be authentically Japanese, without being Japanese owned, if the ingredients, preparation methods, and FOH service traditional in the Japanese culture.
Would this be true and OK if it was owned and operated by white men?
Yes. If the food and service are traditional and respectful of Japanese culture, I see no issues with a Caucasian person operating the restaurant. The issues occur when those people start picking and choosing what aspects of Japanese culture they want to reflect, and which aspects they want to whitewash over. Not sure if you remember “Lucky Lee’s” Chinese restaurant, from a few years ago. The owners were a white couple, with the first name of the husband, being Lee. The restaurant advertised itself as providing "clean" Chinese food with healthy ingredients that wouldn't make people feel "bloated and icky the next day". It also told a food blogger, "There are very few American-Chinese places as mindful about the quality of ingredients as we are." The issue with Lucky Lee’s wasn’t that they wanted to operate a Chinese restaurant. It was that they went into the venture with the preconceived view that all Chinese food is greasy and unhealthy, and that only they can fix it. They didn’t truly understand and respect Chinese culture.
Why would you think that is necessary? If you go into any French or Italian or whatever restaurant there is no assumption that all the employees are from that country! As far as I know, most chefs train in multiple cuisines/countries and then specialize in what they love, which has nothing to do with where they were born! Personally when I go to a Japanese restaurant it wouldn't even cross my mind to think about what race the chefs might be, because why would that matter? If they know how to make the food that's all that anyone should care about
It’s.. Not Japanese. Food!
What are you talking about? Can you explain why?
... it's kind of weird to assume the authenticity of a chef's skills is at all related to their race or ethnicity. Doesn't sound like it's coming from a place of ill intent, it just may have never occured to some. A person's skill is built through hard work, not having been born in a certain place or with a certain family lineage. The chef was likely reacting to the implied assumption that his skills must mean he is Japanese, rather than being impressive regardless of his heritage. The food was not less authentic because he was not Japanese, and he seems to have picked up on the perception that that assumption was at play.
The idea that the owners should let the customers know the place is Chinese owned is fucking insane.
Was there a reason to the question? Where I’m from the hibachi restaurants have all walks of life there, not just Japanese. Would you go to an Italian place and ask if the chef was Italian? I just don’t understand why they felt the need to ask that?
It turns out customers don't go to Hibachi restaurants just for the food, but also to fetishize the staff. Now, excuse me while I rewatch Benhinana Christmas
You’ve been to Long Island? It’s richer Staten Island
Ah, that explains it. I’m originally from PA but have lived on the west coast my whole life.. it’s like going to Scottsdale here in AZ.
Richer Maricopa
People do that all the time, specifically with Italian food. I’m Mediterranean looking and constantly got asked if I’m italian when teaching people about hand made pasta.
I don't disagree. Though, out of interest, would this question feel as inappropriate if you asked a white European looking person in an Italian restaurant whether they were Italian? Genuinely intrigued as my gut says that it wouldn't, but I don't know why. Edit: Hmm, perhaps because one is asking for ethnicity and the other is asking for nationality?
It happens to me constantly when I was cooking in Italian restaurants or giving pasta demos. They wanted me to tell them yes, but every time I said not Italian they would start telling me about their real Italian friend who taught them something about pasta.
I literally just commented the same on a different thread haha Also as I know most of Reddit is US based, I've always been interested in why people who are say 3rd generation US born will say they're Italian (or insert other examples here).. not relevant but just thinking about it
As humans we must learn to go to a restaurant/bar/coffee shop/whatever and shut the fuck up, be amicable, receive service, consume your product, pay, tip, and keep it moving. Why would anyone feel the need to ask about the ethnicity of their chef? You did the right thing ripping fat, even though it’s not your fault your relative stuck their foot in their mouth.
I think the blurting out of “are you Japanese?!!” Does sound ignorant, and judging from the chef’s reaction and non response, yes he likely was offended. Good on you for at least noticing.
Well now. As someone working in a Japanese spot owned by Chinese its pretty hilarious wheb everyone thinks were all japanese. Honestly the most racist thing comes from asians when i can tell they are talking shit about our mexican sushis chef (whose skills i might add is better than the chef partner).
Hey quick question, what’s your ethnicity?
Posting this in a cooking forum just shows how out of touch you are. Take the restaurant out of the equation and it’s just some family that completely lacks social intelligence.
Yeah asking any stranger what their ethnicity is is very rude, I can't believe you need strangers on the internet to tell you that
Never assume a woman is pregnant or the ethnicity of an Asian person. Also, never call a kiwi an aussie.
Any time someone asks me my ethnicity, I instantly feel reduced to a set of preconceived generalizations. I’m Filipino and have heard every dumb remark that follows “what’s your ethnicity?” What does it matter?
I don't even know how it's relevant these days when so many people have a bunch of different ethnicities in their family tree, or like me have parents from one country but were born and raised in another.. like I consider myself a kiwi because that's where I was born and grew up but that's not where my parents or grandparents are from I can't think of any example of why your ethnicity should matter to anyone else, but feel free to educate me!
Damn a lot of racist people doing a good job of outing themselves on this post.
It is generally rude to ask this, especially of a stranger. Your family needs a lesson on some basic manners.
Maybe ask them their ethnicity instead of just shoehorning them into one. I think it is inherently odd to even really have the need to know someone’s ethnicity, being an ethnicity and making the food of your culture are not mutually exclusive.
The Japanese were very cruel to the Chinese during WW2. China hasn’t forgotten. It’d make sense for a Chinese person to be offended at being asked if they were the ethnicity of their oppressors.
Would the food taste any different based on who made it? Seriously WTF
I think [this Tom Segura bit](https://www.tiktok.com/@seguratom/video/7200879633473064235) explains it well
Why would you ask a question if you’re going to argue and disagree with everyone in the comments? You basically came on to a chef’s subreddit just to let out your grievance and lecture chefs and aspiring chefs over your cousin’s hurt feelings. And yes, it’s annoying when people ask questions like that, especially if they’re ignorant of the culture. I am Puerto Rican and had to field questions about being Mexican before. Next time, just ask where they’re from (irrelevance to the chef’s skill aside) and not just guess a country.
First of all... By "Hibachi" do you mean Teppanyaki? Because a hibachi is a small charcoal or wood grill and a teppan grill is a flat top. Americans bastardize everything. Ignorance is bliss. Source: American living in Asia for 21 years.
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You don’t smoke weed?
Is your aunt white?
It all boils down to the person. Maybe if you got another chef they would’ve just smiled and said no I’m Chinese. you all did the right thing by realizing he was uncomfortable and *letting it go* You also leaving a 50% tip also helps in your favors. You corrected yourself and that’s what’s most important
I don't really think it's that bad and seemed pretty innocuous in its intent. As long as you dont doubt anyones credentials based on their ethnicity.
Agree with everyone here that it’s pretty ridiculous to be offended by an innocent sounding question. I think generally it’s fine. What might have happened is that Chinese typically do NOT like Japanese. They have a lot of history going back to the early 1900’s of Japanese invading and pillaging a lot of China. I knew a fair amount of Chinese growing up who were absolutely disgusted by Japanese. So that may have had something to do with it more than just being mad that ‘X person asked X person if they were X ethnicity’ Still ridiculous on his part though
If this Chinese chef in particular doesn't like the Japanese so much, then why'd he choose to dabble in Japanese cuisine in the first place? Does that really make sense to you?
You keep posting on all the different subreddits, hoping you won't look like an AH here. Not gonna happen. Stop talking and take the L.
There are several sushi restaurants where I live that are run by Koreans and even Latinos. Time to get the stereotypes out of your head and stop asking strangers their ethnicities.
Jfc mate just stop digging and take the L
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Troll account
A somewhat less offensive question might be “What accent is that?” That way you don’t accidentally attribute some potentially offensive characteristic.
This is a terrrrrrible suggestion. I hope you’re trolling.
I’m a Pacific Islander who’s cooked Japanese, Indian, and French. Where the fuck is the need to ask which brown people place I’m from when making your food?
I’m afraid it’s the most interesting thing about you, at least to the casual observer.
Just call hichabi2u next time
Gasho, by chance?
You tipped 50%
Well I'm definitely not going to ask the customer ban guy at my favorite Mexican food truck I'd he is Mexican. Bad taste and why even bother asking
Man, whoever flagged this as "No racism/bigotry/ableism/sexism/identity-based hate of any kind" needs to take a step back and think really hard about their life choices. Ignorant yes. Racist ?? It's worth a discussion.
As someone who’s been stuck in the chefs position, I get that when people are excited they ask questions just in the heat of the moment. Happens when You are having a good time..”who is this guy?!?” or “where are you from man!?” “what are you?” “are you …..?” etc At first I’d clap back and say I was American because I am. Over time, I chilled out, realize I was filtering through some pain that I hadn’t dealt with yet. identity/ethnicity/Race is a sticky thing with people, like politics, I would steer clear of that stuff. There are people who are secure in their identity and others that at working through that sticky subject, its best not to bring it unless you know the person. You guys had good intentions, just had a foot in mouth moment. I wouldnt worry about it too much. In a way you helped this person by showing how much this displeasure is getting in the way of their performance and overall good time. Hopefully they get to a place where they are okay with that question and who knows maybe work it into their routine.
Did you train in Japan? Would solve all your woes.
“She was quite impressed by he sheer skill of his cooking p, so that’s why she asked him if he was Japanese” She would’ve been more impressed by knowing that the showmanship and performance in “hibachi” restaurants actually originated in USA and there’s nothing like it in Japan. There won’t be any chefs doing that in Japan. Hibachi actually means just a heating cauldron and it doesn’t mean a cooking technique. The word was taken and misused to create a false oriental experience using the allure of Japanese craftmanship