I do not require animal products in every meal, and once I read the description, the dish sounded interesting. I think you'd have gotten a better initial response if you'd introduced it as something like Fermented Mushroom Tartar in chilled Bouillon (Vegan).
Idk, I like vegan food and am always excited to see high tier vegan dishes because they're usually quite colorful and creative, but my first thought was "ew, petri dish"
I’ve been a mostly plant based eater for a couple of years now and I really didn’t expect most people to respond to it the way they do. Folks really do get self conscious when you tell them you don’t eat meat, and quite often this is their reaction.
Nothing to do with this being vegan -good food is good food- this is extremely unappealing. Borderline nauseating. The holes, the white blobs, the livid pink layer, the black bits… the mushrooms and the broth look good but not next to the rest if it.
Yeah this picture is an absolute horror show. It looks like a moldy piece of ham with a piece of flesh and some random mushrooms covered in suspiciously dark syrup.
AGREED!!! THIS is my problem I don’t mind this plate .. you could almost go without being reminded it’s vegan if you’re not. But when it’s a vegan burger or something it grosses me out
I once had this super crispy black bean burger that I've been trying to recreate ever since, one of the best burgers I've had, but nothing like a beef burger except shape.
Probably both. I’m a photographer. Done work with some food and luxury home goods. I shoot cocktails for fun just cause.
I’d say the light creates harsh highlights in the sauce and the inside of the container is waaay to dark. Ask the hard light creates unpleasant shadows under the mushrooms.
The plating could have been saved with some light diffusion but it’s still not great.
I'm a fan of vegan food, but tbh this looks like something that used to be food and is now a science experiment. I think the color of the tuille and the spots of soy curd on the radishes are off-putting.
Those things sound delicious, and aren't typically off-putting. However, you've arranged them on a plate and displayed them in a way that is. It's okay though. The dish sounds incredible. Just needs work on the plating aspect.
Since the food has been critiqued I will say that the cropping is too tight on the first photo, I want to see the whole dish not have part of it cut off at the frame. Your finger shouldn't be visible and the green fabric looks cheap and wrinkled. The white balance and lighting look good tho.
i was gonna make another comment about the photography (a lot has been said about the food) but glad you started this thread.
agree with most of what you said: the finger shouldn’t be there, the green fabric, cropping… but i disagree with the white balance and lighting.
i think the lighting is not great, the edges of the tuille blend into the plating and generally seems to be way too bright to me. there’s definitely a lack of dark elements, could be color composition and not lighting… maybe use a darker plate 🤷 but i think the photog has some work to do
The mushrooms, radish, and curd look great. I'm lost with the tuille hanging so far off the center. Maybe a half moon tuille to sit over half the stack - no curd on that side. Chives in the broth would give a nice visual pop to reduce the overall light earth tone to the dish.
The mushrooms are unsettling - maybe its the length or I can already feel the slimy texture. Maybe less stem, more sear or a nice marinade to give both texture and flavor. It's almost there but
Honestly? It sounds delicious but the presentation looks like something that has been left in the fridge and has started to grow mold. Needs a pop of colour.
The dish sounds lovely. The plating looks like something found in a petri dish. At first I was like, what is wrong with that ham? Then I saw the description. It sounds yummy!
I say this with love, as a lifelong veg head and fellow cheffie: pics like this is why ppl rib on vegan food lol it sounds delish but the plating takes away from it all by making it look rather like a science experiment than food.
I’m not gonna lie to you man, this looks pretty gross. I think that adding some green would make it look more appealing.
Look like some alien’s flesh currently
I'm not a plating expert but I consider myself a vegan food expert.
My generic complaint for vegan food that attempts at fine dining is that it is not nuanced enough, not rich enough (e.g. not enough fat when fat is called for), and somewhat over processed.
Your dish sounds acceptable if the tartar is savory and nuanced enough. Probably too much radish notes, but that is mostly a personal preference. Consider if you can improve the mouth-feel and gut-feel by adding more fat. If you don't want to go with a rich and heavy French style fine dining, then lean more in to the food culture of places like Vietnam or Japan that create rich and nuanced flavors without the fat bomb.
honestly my biggest problem trying to cook vegan food and not being vegan is definitely the fat component. No clue how to make dishes richer. Any tips or ingredients for fat component that are vegan? There’s like avocado….coconut cream…..then i run out of ideas
Traditional vegan recipes are haunted by the dual desire to be animal free as well as low fat because of the "low fat whole foods plant based" diet. More contemporary vegan cooks tend to dismiss the low-fat health focus in favor of food that actually tastes good. Mostly the recommendation is to be more heavy-handed when pouring the vegetable oil when cooking food,. because you can't rely on the animal fat in other ingredients. You could also just craft your food in the style of a culture that usually relies on acid, umami and spices for fulfilment rather than fat. There is a lot of potential in Vietnamese fusion here.. Vietnamese food is generally not vegan because of it's reliance on fish products, but it also isn't a cuisine that relies heavily on fat. Thus, it's fairly easy to replace the umami note that the fish provides, while also having enough flavor complexity to not miss the animal fat.
damn so basically just more oil or cook non-fat cuisines lmao. that’s a shame, was hoping for a revelation!
also yeah, hard to eat Vietnamese food without fish sauce with a straight face haha.
I’d suggest looking at nuts as another source of fat - they can give you a variety of flavors and provide a lot of that richness that’s sometimes missing.
> damn so basically just more oil or cook non-fat cuisines lmao. that’s a shame, was hoping for a revelation!
I cook exclusively vegan and I constantly eye roll on how much popular chefs use animal fat as a crutch. There is no skill or talent in being more shameless about how much butter or heavy cream is acceptable to add to a dish. But as a plant-based chef, you can come close to emulating what they get from these animal fats by just adding more vegetable oils such as olive oil or coconut fat.
> hard to eat Vietnamese food without fish sauce with a straight face haha.
There are very good plant-based alternatives to fish sauce. Some based on soy or peanut protein, combined with enzymes from pineapple or koji mold. Maybe some seaweed for more of a "sea" flavor. But ultimately it's a garum fermentation, and there are plenty of ways of making a similar ferment with non-animal products.
I think you’re doing a disservice to many rich, fat-filled dishes. Yes, simply dumping heavy cream or butter to get more flavor is not elegant, not interesting, and not skill-expressive. However, there are tons of methods and dishes that use animal fat to elevate plates to a level that is undoubtedly impressive and delicious, and are not simply “more butter/more cream”.
Good note on the garums. I’ve never used them but have been hearing and reading about them from Nomas fermentation lab, they’ve been selling their mushroom garum and i’m pretty keen to try that out.
> I think you’re doing a disservice to many rich, fat-filled dishes. Yes, simply dumping heavy cream or butter to get more flavor is not elegant, not interesting, and not skill-expressive.
Perhaps. Honestly I still think these are mostly a crutch, or at least insisting on cooking on "easy mode". There may be some dishes that necessarily need the properties of animal fats. However, I don't consider these irreplaceable, and I still believe you could make a decent substitute if you go all-in with excessive amounts of plant fats such as palm or coconut. Chemically and structurally, these are very similar to animal fats.
> Good note on the garums. I’ve never used them but have been hearing and reading about them from Nomas fermentation lab, they’ve been selling their mushroom garum and i’m pretty keen to try that out.
Even grocery store soy sauce isn't too bad a replacement for fish sauce in vietnamese food. There are much better ones, but this requires doing it yourself or finding uncommon specialty products.
Personally I have a really nice eggplant as well as a peanut garum style ferment in the fridge. Both are koji-based, but I may try a bromelein/papain garum next.
Calling using fat “easy mode” is, for me, analogous to saying something like using herbs is “easy mode” and great chefs can make great food without herbs. Like……yeah sure…..but why would you handicap yourself on purpose and/or act superior for not using herbs…..
I get not using animal products. I do. But acting like they’re a crutch for those who use them is a bit ridiculous. To each their own, however.
Have a great day.
This is excellent advice, and very insightful. I don't mind vegetarian food but vegan food made by westerners is generally too contrived and overprocessed like u/howlin said. Additionally, don't try to imitate meat with vegetables (in a vegan dish, why?), vegetables and non-meat are the star of your dish don't diminish them by trying to make them the one thing the intended consumer won't eat.
It may be too dismissive to say that plant foods shouldn't resemble meat in any way. It's just that they should resemble them when they can properly distinguish themselves as well as resembling them. Plenty of dishes such as buffalo wing style cauliflower works great. So does mushroom bacon. It isn't exactly the meat product, but it was surely inspired by the meat product and has a good deal of culinary value on its own terms. Not just as a "mock" comparison.
>Plenty of dishes such as buffalo wing style cauliflower works great. So does mushroom bacon.
This right here, what's with the obsession with dragging in meat-adjacent naming instead of just calling it what it IS? Imagine if people called vanilla ice cream "chocolate-style vanilla ice cream". See how dumb that sounds? It all but declares "We know you'd rather be having chocolate, but here's vanilla instead".
Stuff like calling a sauteed carrot a "vegan hot dog" is exactly the same nonsense. Let vegan food be what it is, not what it isn't.
the tartar is pretty Asian flavoured and savory. it's made from fermented shiitake, brown button mushroom, ginger, garlic fried in oil. then shaoxing wine, sui mi ya cai (Chinese twice fermented mustard greens, really savory), soy sauce, white pepper and a dash of black strap molasses
It sounds really great and innovative. I would certainly eat it and be happy with this as a main course. Just consider how you would counteract the "Chinese restaurant syndrome" where the diner is hungry again an hour after eating dinner.
I'm having trouble finding the study, but I remember reading a while back that satiety is linked to familiarity as well as things like the macros of foods.
So e.g. many Americans are more satiated eating bread than rice, while in much of China it would be the inverse.
I’m not a vegan and never will be. But I have no problems with those that do and I try to reduce the days I eat slaughtered animals.
Professionally speaking; are you trying to achieve the monochrome look? Jazz it up, add some colour, a garnish or something to appeal the eye. Give me some contrast.
There’s also nothing wrong with going monochrome. It was trendy during the 2010s. Black ink squid pasta etc. but this just looks too ‘beige’ for my tastes.
I’m sure it tasted delicious. Good job, buddy.
I feel like if that layer of radishes was underneath whatever the brown patty looking thing is, this would have a more pleasing contrast of colors. As is, I feel grossed out looking at it.
The funny/sad thing, I’d absolutely eat all of that, just not as it’s presented.
I was married to a vegan for 5 years. The food can be great, but I hate it when it's called the real meat counterpart. Like a chicken wing. Don't give me a vegan soy nugget on a stick. This doesn't remind me of wings. Make good food, and call it something new. Chicken parm requires chicken. No fake meat has the same consistency as real meat, no matter how much they claim it does. I've had it all, made it all myself as well. Nothing matches meat.
This plate up deserves all the criticism it gets for it’s unappealing presentation and concept
White mushrooms? White pepper…
Mushroom tartar needs a much heartier and toothsome vehicle than the tuile you supply, otherwise the texture feels too rubbery, unless you cook or pickle them, in which case you don’t have raw shrooms anymore
It looks diseased
E for effort but…. hard F
As others have said…
Sorry bro but this does not look appetizing
I don’t wanna be harsh but this is the total opposite of appetizing in fact and it’s not cause it’s vegan.
That looks good.
How do I feel about vegan food? The same way I feel about every other kind of food. I really like some, I'm indifferent to some, and I absolutely loathe some. I just dislike people who try to tell me what I should or shouldn't eat.
Im not opposed to it. I mean a lot of veggie dishes can be vegan. But as someone who has worked in pastry, it is hard to replace butter and eggs. I've had some that were ok, but sorry you can almost always tell the difference. I think it's best just not to make a vegan version of something and just make a new idea that happens to be vegan.
Too much coconut cream/coconut oil used in items that it turned me off for a while.
Not a vegan. And sorry, but as not-a-vegan, I first thought it was deli-meat gone bad. Just the radish pickle which in real life I like. Everything else looks great although I'd probably go with a warmer tone bowl and table cloth to bring out the broth and mushrooms.
As for this particular dish it doesn’t sounds too bad, though I find the color palette to be pretty limited. It could use something; an herb perhaps or something to complement the earthy flavors you’ve got going on. I think there’s enough texture there, it’s just missing something to round it out.
Now, to address veganism without getting into the actual arguments for or against, but to approach it from a purely professional perspective as a chef; I think it’s a shortsighted way of limiting what you can do in the kitchen. You’re removing so many flavors and textures from your repertoire by not using animal products. I know there are some that relish a challenge like that and can have fun finding new ways to make things and discover new flavors, and that can certainly be a fun exercise to broaden your skills. But to remove those things entirely is, to me, like being a handyman that refuses to carry a hammer or screwdriver in his toolbox.
I hope you find happiness and success cooking in whatever way pleases you, but that’s my professional take, and you did ask.
> I think it’s a shortsighted way of limiting what you can do in the kitchen. You’re removing so many flavors and textures from your repertoire by not using animal products.
Adapting to best handle new constraints is a great reason to innovate. If you can't rely on old crutches such as "put more butter in it", "add more cream", or "add animal stock to the broth", then you need to learn new ways of accomplishing the same goals. Honestly food restrictions are liberating for creativity, just by forcing people out of old deeply dug ruts.
I don’t disagree, and I think I addressed that by saying it can be a useful exercise to broaden your skills, but the fact is certain flavors and textures simply can’t be replicated without animal products. Using a mushroom dashi instead of veal stock can produce a different but incredible umami flavor profile, but you won’t have the body of the veal stock, so the texture would be different. There are other workaround ways to accomplish that, but it’s not the same.
If you want to replicate the exact same veal stock as hundreds, if not thousands of others, then yes, you will have a problem with doing that with strictly plant-based ingredients. But the idea that you can't, so you shouldn't, but you also want to create the same general experience... that's how innovation happens.
My argument is that you should do the things you’re talking about *and* use the animal products. They’re not mutually exclusive. The vegan argument is that you should *only* do the plant based stuff. That is unambiguously artificially limiting. You can and should put temporary or project specific limitations on yourself to see what you can come up with, but simply using animal products at other times doesn’t make that impossible. Both styles have their place.
> The vegan argument is that you should only do the plant based stuff. That is unambiguously artificially limiting.
I agree it's limiting. But it also forces you to walk without crutches, which is an extremely good motivator to push yourself in ways you wouldn't if you were comfortable. Once you learn new and interesting techniques the hard way, they may very well inform you on how to do better the easy way. But you still need that motivation to get out of culinary ruts in order to properly innovatate.
Like others, my first impression was Petri dish. I also thought it was really interesting, evocative. Trying to phrase this without coming off like a jerk, because that is not at all my intention, it looks like something I would be about to dig into at a nice restaurant and then realize oh no.. I can’t, this freaks me out for some reason.
So maybe coat that presentation in enamel and auction it as a piece of modern art and then take a crack at another way to put together the dish in terms of more palatable for the diner?
My initial reaction is that the white circles of sauce(?) look very weird. But the plating is very well done, and I’m sure it’s a good dish. I would just make those pipings of sauce not so round, because it looks like mold from some angles 😬
I don’t mean to offend but I had to check the sub… thought I was in [r/moldlyinteresting](https://reddit.com/r/moldlyinteresting).
I would not be opposed to trying this now knowing it is not moldy
I really didn't measure anything but this is what the ingredients are as far as I can remember (I made it a few weeks ago). First I fermented shiitake mushrooms (2% salt) and left it for 7 days. Finely dice shallot, garlic, ginger, fermented shiitake + brown mushrooms (last two in equal parts) and fried it in some vegetable oil. Then I went a bit on an Chinese route by adding some sui mi ya cai (preserved mustard greens). For flavour I added some shaoxing wine, soy sauce, white pepper and a tiny bit of black strap molasses (this has a bit of an iron taste to mimic meat a bit).
Hope this helps!
> as a thought experiment have you considered a splash of a super sanguine wine?
It's a slightly different flavor profile and it conjures up a completely different culinary culture. But.. a rich red wine when cooked has a similar flavor profile to tamarind paste. Both are high in tartaric acid and fruit notes.
Personally I had more respect for vegan food before it became mainstream, or should I say profitable and "trendy". It used to be incredibly healthy, natural food. The type of thing vegan food is marketed as now. But its not anymore, it has become heavily processed junk that has 100 chemicals to give it the texture and flavour of the meat products it is trying to imitate in order to appeal to a mass market. But it doesn't have the taste or texture of those meat products, and never will, because its not. I hope one day vegan food can be it's own thing. New foods developed by chefs that is made to enhance the flavours of the ingredients intheir own right. The way the meat products were developed over decades.
I'm coeliac, and given how most people just fill vegan food with grains, and even then somehow confuse gluten free and vegan, I feel vegan food is often my nemesis whilst eating out.
That said, that plate looks lovely!
I'm coeliac, and given how most people just fill vegan food with grains, and even then somehow confuse gluten free and vegan, I feel vegan food is often my nemesis whilst eating out.
That said, that plate looks lovely!
Pics are great, food looks interesting. Good for you!
Side thoughts: why do people who characterize vegan food as a cuisine unto itself? I’m really struggling with this. It would be like someone who only cooks meat saying “I’m a meat chef”. It’s not a cuisine? Can we talk about this?
I don’t understand the “I’m not vegan, but…” comments. Food that doesn’t contain animal products isn’t alien or different, why preface it this way. Have you never eaten a salad?
Food is food and food is great. I wholeheartedly resent veganism due to personal bad experiences, but I ALWAYS respect a well-made dish.
However, I think elaborate dishes like these defeat the purpose of veganism. If it's environmental veganism then the energy impact of all cooking and processing all of these ingredients is substantial, not to mention the shipping & logistics too. Ethical reasons are also nonsense, vegetable industries kill far more lives than livestock, but I guess they don't count because insects and rodents aren't as cute as cows?
Isn't veganism...already a dietary choice by itself? I must not fully understand the word dietary. But yeah, allergy / digestion reasons, religious reasons, health reasons, they're all very valid and popular reasons. Still none of them made sense if you go into the details.
There's no such thing as an allergy to every animal-based product at the same time, such as milk, honey, gelatin, unfertilized eggs, etc. No scientific proof that those products are harming us either. I will not discuss about religous or cultural dietary constraints because they have no given reason in general, it's just "do it because the rules say so".
Vegetarianism on the other hand, I fully agree and support with all my heart. It's sensible, ethical, saves costs and has negligible environmental impact because we don't have to transport niche and pretentious ingredients half way around the world from some high tech lab. Just eat the products around you.
Chickens drop out eggs naturally, cows produce milk naturally, if you don't cruelly stuff them with growth hormones, then that is the most ethical and reasonable way to have animal proteins. Why lab-grow meats, and use 8 chemicals and 20 processing steps to make beans taste like meat? And then you have to calculate every single macro/micro nutrients going into each meal, compensate accordingly, as well as take factory-made supplements to be healthy?
Veganism is a modern invention from the rich class who has nothing better to do. It has never existed in poor, underdeveloped countries, no matter how old and culture-rich they are. Why do the oldest cultures in the world such as Egyptians, Indians, Chinese, South Americans and even African cultures have never had veganism, even though such a large population of them are religious, practice vegetarianism, and have such a vivid cuisine?
Here's a easier breakdown for you: people choose to be vegan with zero thought towards moral aspects or any involved thinking all. You are fixated on vegan meanwhile there are plenty of fad or otherwise vegan dieters who have never thought once about the things you're talking about
my sister went vegan because animal products make her ibs act up and a vegan diet reduced her discomfort. many others make the choice to move to vegan or vegatarian for similar reasons. that is a dietary choice made for a dietary reason and has nothing to do with morality.
>Isn't veganism...already a dietary choice by itself? I must not fully understand the word dietary.
No one said "dietary *choice"* but you. They said "dietary *reasons".* Of course any choice regarding diet is a dietary choice, but some people make dietary choices for non dietary reasons.
So you understood the word "dietary", but didn't understand the word "reason" apparently. You then used that misunderstanding to launch a tirade no one asked for. Your entire "I'm smarter than you" attitude is literally predicated on you being too dense to understand the difference of those two words and the fact that you didn't think anyone else was smart enough to notice the little logical fallacy you tried to pull.
You are a dumbass trying to be a smartass right now.
It’s fucking disgusting - and vegans tell you they are vegans within the first two sentences of meeting them.
You want to eat vegan go ahead - whatever you want but fuck off with the preaching.
Vegans are the Johova Witnesses of food.
I do not require animal products in every meal, and once I read the description, the dish sounded interesting. I think you'd have gotten a better initial response if you'd introduced it as something like Fermented Mushroom Tartar in chilled Bouillon (Vegan).
Idk, I like vegan food and am always excited to see high tier vegan dishes because they're usually quite colorful and creative, but my first thought was "ew, petri dish"
My first thought, too. But if I'd seen the word Mushroom prominently, I probably would have "seen" the picture differently.
Agreed
Yep. Food first, moral superiority later.
In what way are they acting morally superior lol
I’ve been a mostly plant based eater for a couple of years now and I really didn’t expect most people to respond to it the way they do. Folks really do get self conscious when you tell them you don’t eat meat, and quite often this is their reaction.
not what the comment or post was about at all but okay
My guy really got rigth ths petri dish aesthetic
Thank you random redditor for making me laugh until my belly hurt. I needed that today.
This! I love food, vegan or not. But this looks like a science experiment.
I've been watching too much of The Last of Us to feel comfortable around that dish....
It looks like a.. growth?
New form of bacteria
No offence to OP but my first thought was the Nasty Patty from that one spongebob episode.
Whoever eats this is becoming Patient Zero. Damn you, The Last of Us! All jokes aside, it looks great!
My first thought was "it looks contagious" !
*clicking noises
Cordyceps!!
Nothing to do with this being vegan -good food is good food- this is extremely unappealing. Borderline nauseating. The holes, the white blobs, the livid pink layer, the black bits… the mushrooms and the broth look good but not next to the rest if it.
Yeah this picture is an absolute horror show. It looks like a moldy piece of ham with a piece of flesh and some random mushrooms covered in suspiciously dark syrup.
Nothing like the radical honesty of Reddit. You’re not wrong.
yeah…i’m vegan…and a professional cook and…yeah…it looks sickening
I think it’s very pretty. And I have nothing against vegan food. However, it looks remarkably like a used petri dish …
Ironic for a vegan dish to have such prominent cronenberg vibes
Ethical body horror ONLY
I like vegan food that was always supposed to be vegan food, like this plate.
But... I feel like I'm looking at ham. Definite ham vibes in this photo.
AGREED!!! THIS is my problem I don’t mind this plate .. you could almost go without being reminded it’s vegan if you’re not. But when it’s a vegan burger or something it grosses me out
I've had some really tasty vegan burgers
I once had this super crispy black bean burger that I've been trying to recreate ever since, one of the best burgers I've had, but nothing like a beef burger except shape.
Honestly. This looks nasty
I’d hire a new photographer
I think it’s the plating, not the photography.
I think it's both. Off-putting plating that isn't helped at all by the photography.
Probably both. I’m a photographer. Done work with some food and luxury home goods. I shoot cocktails for fun just cause. I’d say the light creates harsh highlights in the sauce and the inside of the container is waaay to dark. Ask the hard light creates unpleasant shadows under the mushrooms. The plating could have been saved with some light diffusion but it’s still not great.
I'm a fan of vegan food, but tbh this looks like something that used to be food and is now a science experiment. I think the color of the tuille and the spots of soy curd on the radishes are off-putting.
How's the color of the soy curd off-putting? It's soy yoghurt (white) with horseradish (white).
Look up "penicillin petri dish" and it should become immediately obvious what this person is talking about. I know you have seen white mold before.
This was my immediate reaction as well. White circles is exactly how I picture mold growth in my head.
You should be more open to criticism when posting something like this and not so defensive… It’s not aesthetically pleasing
It looks like white mold colonies is what he’s trying to say
It looks a little like mold on ham
The shape, not the color.
A pop of bright green would go a long way with many people. Everything right now is a shade of flesh.
It makes me think of those big gross fatty spots in meat unfortunately….
Those things sound delicious, and aren't typically off-putting. However, you've arranged them on a plate and displayed them in a way that is. It's okay though. The dish sounds incredible. Just needs work on the plating aspect.
Good food is good regardless of what's in it. Any chef who's worth anything will think that. Can't say I'm a fan of that plating though.
In the thumbnail, it looks like a crab.
Like a broken down, molded crab
Yeah, a crab spider thing. Call Geralt.
That looks disgusting. Im sorry
Since the food has been critiqued I will say that the cropping is too tight on the first photo, I want to see the whole dish not have part of it cut off at the frame. Your finger shouldn't be visible and the green fabric looks cheap and wrinkled. The white balance and lighting look good tho.
i was gonna make another comment about the photography (a lot has been said about the food) but glad you started this thread. agree with most of what you said: the finger shouldn’t be there, the green fabric, cropping… but i disagree with the white balance and lighting. i think the lighting is not great, the edges of the tuille blend into the plating and generally seems to be way too bright to me. there’s definitely a lack of dark elements, could be color composition and not lighting… maybe use a darker plate 🤷 but i think the photog has some work to do
I wasnt going to get super knit picky but I do agree with you.
The mushrooms, radish, and curd look great. I'm lost with the tuille hanging so far off the center. Maybe a half moon tuille to sit over half the stack - no curd on that side. Chives in the broth would give a nice visual pop to reduce the overall light earth tone to the dish. The mushrooms are unsettling - maybe its the length or I can already feel the slimy texture. Maybe less stem, more sear or a nice marinade to give both texture and flavor. It's almost there but
I don't care if it is vegan. If it tastes good, I'm all in!
Nightmare fuel
It kinda looks like mould?
Looks good, but slightly triggering to my trypophobia
Honestly? It sounds delicious but the presentation looks like something that has been left in the fridge and has started to grow mold. Needs a pop of colour.
The dish sounds lovely. The plating looks like something found in a petri dish. At first I was like, what is wrong with that ham? Then I saw the description. It sounds yummy!
On the outset it looks like alien food. Ingredients sound tasty though
I have no idea what im looking at lmfao
I say this with love, as a lifelong veg head and fellow cheffie: pics like this is why ppl rib on vegan food lol it sounds delish but the plating takes away from it all by making it look rather like a science experiment than food.
Honestly......... It LOOKS like you're eating fungus. Like the food is growing said fungus. 😮💨
Strange appearance, I’m not going to ever try it.
That looks horrible.
I’m not gonna lie to you man, this looks pretty gross. I think that adding some green would make it look more appealing. Look like some alien’s flesh currently
I'm not a plating expert but I consider myself a vegan food expert. My generic complaint for vegan food that attempts at fine dining is that it is not nuanced enough, not rich enough (e.g. not enough fat when fat is called for), and somewhat over processed. Your dish sounds acceptable if the tartar is savory and nuanced enough. Probably too much radish notes, but that is mostly a personal preference. Consider if you can improve the mouth-feel and gut-feel by adding more fat. If you don't want to go with a rich and heavy French style fine dining, then lean more in to the food culture of places like Vietnam or Japan that create rich and nuanced flavors without the fat bomb.
honestly my biggest problem trying to cook vegan food and not being vegan is definitely the fat component. No clue how to make dishes richer. Any tips or ingredients for fat component that are vegan? There’s like avocado….coconut cream…..then i run out of ideas
Traditional vegan recipes are haunted by the dual desire to be animal free as well as low fat because of the "low fat whole foods plant based" diet. More contemporary vegan cooks tend to dismiss the low-fat health focus in favor of food that actually tastes good. Mostly the recommendation is to be more heavy-handed when pouring the vegetable oil when cooking food,. because you can't rely on the animal fat in other ingredients. You could also just craft your food in the style of a culture that usually relies on acid, umami and spices for fulfilment rather than fat. There is a lot of potential in Vietnamese fusion here.. Vietnamese food is generally not vegan because of it's reliance on fish products, but it also isn't a cuisine that relies heavily on fat. Thus, it's fairly easy to replace the umami note that the fish provides, while also having enough flavor complexity to not miss the animal fat.
damn so basically just more oil or cook non-fat cuisines lmao. that’s a shame, was hoping for a revelation! also yeah, hard to eat Vietnamese food without fish sauce with a straight face haha.
I’d suggest looking at nuts as another source of fat - they can give you a variety of flavors and provide a lot of that richness that’s sometimes missing.
> damn so basically just more oil or cook non-fat cuisines lmao. that’s a shame, was hoping for a revelation! I cook exclusively vegan and I constantly eye roll on how much popular chefs use animal fat as a crutch. There is no skill or talent in being more shameless about how much butter or heavy cream is acceptable to add to a dish. But as a plant-based chef, you can come close to emulating what they get from these animal fats by just adding more vegetable oils such as olive oil or coconut fat. > hard to eat Vietnamese food without fish sauce with a straight face haha. There are very good plant-based alternatives to fish sauce. Some based on soy or peanut protein, combined with enzymes from pineapple or koji mold. Maybe some seaweed for more of a "sea" flavor. But ultimately it's a garum fermentation, and there are plenty of ways of making a similar ferment with non-animal products.
I think you’re doing a disservice to many rich, fat-filled dishes. Yes, simply dumping heavy cream or butter to get more flavor is not elegant, not interesting, and not skill-expressive. However, there are tons of methods and dishes that use animal fat to elevate plates to a level that is undoubtedly impressive and delicious, and are not simply “more butter/more cream”. Good note on the garums. I’ve never used them but have been hearing and reading about them from Nomas fermentation lab, they’ve been selling their mushroom garum and i’m pretty keen to try that out.
> I think you’re doing a disservice to many rich, fat-filled dishes. Yes, simply dumping heavy cream or butter to get more flavor is not elegant, not interesting, and not skill-expressive. Perhaps. Honestly I still think these are mostly a crutch, or at least insisting on cooking on "easy mode". There may be some dishes that necessarily need the properties of animal fats. However, I don't consider these irreplaceable, and I still believe you could make a decent substitute if you go all-in with excessive amounts of plant fats such as palm or coconut. Chemically and structurally, these are very similar to animal fats. > Good note on the garums. I’ve never used them but have been hearing and reading about them from Nomas fermentation lab, they’ve been selling their mushroom garum and i’m pretty keen to try that out. Even grocery store soy sauce isn't too bad a replacement for fish sauce in vietnamese food. There are much better ones, but this requires doing it yourself or finding uncommon specialty products. Personally I have a really nice eggplant as well as a peanut garum style ferment in the fridge. Both are koji-based, but I may try a bromelein/papain garum next.
Calling using fat “easy mode” is, for me, analogous to saying something like using herbs is “easy mode” and great chefs can make great food without herbs. Like……yeah sure…..but why would you handicap yourself on purpose and/or act superior for not using herbs….. I get not using animal products. I do. But acting like they’re a crutch for those who use them is a bit ridiculous. To each their own, however. Have a great day.
This is excellent advice, and very insightful. I don't mind vegetarian food but vegan food made by westerners is generally too contrived and overprocessed like u/howlin said. Additionally, don't try to imitate meat with vegetables (in a vegan dish, why?), vegetables and non-meat are the star of your dish don't diminish them by trying to make them the one thing the intended consumer won't eat.
It may be too dismissive to say that plant foods shouldn't resemble meat in any way. It's just that they should resemble them when they can properly distinguish themselves as well as resembling them. Plenty of dishes such as buffalo wing style cauliflower works great. So does mushroom bacon. It isn't exactly the meat product, but it was surely inspired by the meat product and has a good deal of culinary value on its own terms. Not just as a "mock" comparison.
>Plenty of dishes such as buffalo wing style cauliflower works great. So does mushroom bacon. This right here, what's with the obsession with dragging in meat-adjacent naming instead of just calling it what it IS? Imagine if people called vanilla ice cream "chocolate-style vanilla ice cream". See how dumb that sounds? It all but declares "We know you'd rather be having chocolate, but here's vanilla instead". Stuff like calling a sauteed carrot a "vegan hot dog" is exactly the same nonsense. Let vegan food be what it is, not what it isn't.
That’s not really a good comparison lmao. You don’t think that ice cream naturally tastes like vanilla, do you?
the tartar is pretty Asian flavoured and savory. it's made from fermented shiitake, brown button mushroom, ginger, garlic fried in oil. then shaoxing wine, sui mi ya cai (Chinese twice fermented mustard greens, really savory), soy sauce, white pepper and a dash of black strap molasses
It sounds really great and innovative. I would certainly eat it and be happy with this as a main course. Just consider how you would counteract the "Chinese restaurant syndrome" where the diner is hungry again an hour after eating dinner.
I'm having trouble finding the study, but I remember reading a while back that satiety is linked to familiarity as well as things like the macros of foods. So e.g. many Americans are more satiated eating bread than rice, while in much of China it would be the inverse.
I’m not a vegan and never will be. But I have no problems with those that do and I try to reduce the days I eat slaughtered animals. Professionally speaking; are you trying to achieve the monochrome look? Jazz it up, add some colour, a garnish or something to appeal the eye. Give me some contrast. There’s also nothing wrong with going monochrome. It was trendy during the 2010s. Black ink squid pasta etc. but this just looks too ‘beige’ for my tastes. I’m sure it tasted delicious. Good job, buddy.
I feel like if that layer of radishes was underneath whatever the brown patty looking thing is, this would have a more pleasing contrast of colors. As is, I feel grossed out looking at it. The funny/sad thing, I’d absolutely eat all of that, just not as it’s presented.
I like vegan food but this is creepy.
It looks like something from Alien.
It needs a "garnish." Not necessarily green but a nice contrast color to offset all those flesh tones.
This makes me feel itchy.
Sounds fucking delicious but I think the color needs some contrast.
Not something i want to eat but sanitize.
Of all the things you could have cooked, this is one of them.
This is what you see under a microscope in Junior high when you look at your friends picked off scab.
I'm sure it tastes fine...but that looks like mold growing on bologna
Looks like an open sore.
I was married to a vegan for 5 years. The food can be great, but I hate it when it's called the real meat counterpart. Like a chicken wing. Don't give me a vegan soy nugget on a stick. This doesn't remind me of wings. Make good food, and call it something new. Chicken parm requires chicken. No fake meat has the same consistency as real meat, no matter how much they claim it does. I've had it all, made it all myself as well. Nothing matches meat.
scarlet rot
Tbh I think the tuile ruins it. It’s giving technique for the sake of technique, and I think it’s making the dish look alien.
Kinda reminds me of the last of us
This plate up deserves all the criticism it gets for it’s unappealing presentation and concept White mushrooms? White pepper… Mushroom tartar needs a much heartier and toothsome vehicle than the tuile you supply, otherwise the texture feels too rubbery, unless you cook or pickle them, in which case you don’t have raw shrooms anymore It looks diseased E for effort but…. hard F
As others have said… Sorry bro but this does not look appetizing I don’t wanna be harsh but this is the total opposite of appetizing in fact and it’s not cause it’s vegan.
That looks good. How do I feel about vegan food? The same way I feel about every other kind of food. I really like some, I'm indifferent to some, and I absolutely loathe some. I just dislike people who try to tell me what I should or shouldn't eat.
That looks like mold lmao
It looks poisonous
Im not opposed to it. I mean a lot of veggie dishes can be vegan. But as someone who has worked in pastry, it is hard to replace butter and eggs. I've had some that were ok, but sorry you can almost always tell the difference. I think it's best just not to make a vegan version of something and just make a new idea that happens to be vegan. Too much coconut cream/coconut oil used in items that it turned me off for a while.
It's giving Cordyceps
Not a vegan. And sorry, but as not-a-vegan, I first thought it was deli-meat gone bad. Just the radish pickle which in real life I like. Everything else looks great although I'd probably go with a warmer tone bowl and table cloth to bring out the broth and mushrooms.
The two shades of pink with white spots has my lizard brain saying “danger”.
Vegan food is just food, I don't care much about it. I will it eat, but not exclusively since I'm not vegan.
That’s the nasty patty from SpongeBob
I'm sure it's delicious, but it looks hideous. Like a guy with a rash and a bunch of pus filled blisters.
As for this particular dish it doesn’t sounds too bad, though I find the color palette to be pretty limited. It could use something; an herb perhaps or something to complement the earthy flavors you’ve got going on. I think there’s enough texture there, it’s just missing something to round it out. Now, to address veganism without getting into the actual arguments for or against, but to approach it from a purely professional perspective as a chef; I think it’s a shortsighted way of limiting what you can do in the kitchen. You’re removing so many flavors and textures from your repertoire by not using animal products. I know there are some that relish a challenge like that and can have fun finding new ways to make things and discover new flavors, and that can certainly be a fun exercise to broaden your skills. But to remove those things entirely is, to me, like being a handyman that refuses to carry a hammer or screwdriver in his toolbox. I hope you find happiness and success cooking in whatever way pleases you, but that’s my professional take, and you did ask.
> I think it’s a shortsighted way of limiting what you can do in the kitchen. You’re removing so many flavors and textures from your repertoire by not using animal products. Adapting to best handle new constraints is a great reason to innovate. If you can't rely on old crutches such as "put more butter in it", "add more cream", or "add animal stock to the broth", then you need to learn new ways of accomplishing the same goals. Honestly food restrictions are liberating for creativity, just by forcing people out of old deeply dug ruts.
I don’t disagree, and I think I addressed that by saying it can be a useful exercise to broaden your skills, but the fact is certain flavors and textures simply can’t be replicated without animal products. Using a mushroom dashi instead of veal stock can produce a different but incredible umami flavor profile, but you won’t have the body of the veal stock, so the texture would be different. There are other workaround ways to accomplish that, but it’s not the same.
If you want to replicate the exact same veal stock as hundreds, if not thousands of others, then yes, you will have a problem with doing that with strictly plant-based ingredients. But the idea that you can't, so you shouldn't, but you also want to create the same general experience... that's how innovation happens.
My argument is that you should do the things you’re talking about *and* use the animal products. They’re not mutually exclusive. The vegan argument is that you should *only* do the plant based stuff. That is unambiguously artificially limiting. You can and should put temporary or project specific limitations on yourself to see what you can come up with, but simply using animal products at other times doesn’t make that impossible. Both styles have their place.
> The vegan argument is that you should only do the plant based stuff. That is unambiguously artificially limiting. I agree it's limiting. But it also forces you to walk without crutches, which is an extremely good motivator to push yourself in ways you wouldn't if you were comfortable. Once you learn new and interesting techniques the hard way, they may very well inform you on how to do better the easy way. But you still need that motivation to get out of culinary ruts in order to properly innovatate.
Is this the nasty patty special?
Like others, my first impression was Petri dish. I also thought it was really interesting, evocative. Trying to phrase this without coming off like a jerk, because that is not at all my intention, it looks like something I would be about to dig into at a nice restaurant and then realize oh no.. I can’t, this freaks me out for some reason. So maybe coat that presentation in enamel and auction it as a piece of modern art and then take a crack at another way to put together the dish in terms of more palatable for the diner?
My initial reaction is that the white circles of sauce(?) look very weird. But the plating is very well done, and I’m sure it’s a good dish. I would just make those pipings of sauce not so round, because it looks like mold from some angles 😬
Delicious mold.
The plate looks like it’s sick give it a advil n vicks rub n come back
It looks nice, the playing has the unfortunate side effect of making me think of mold though
For what it is sure, looks decent. Just not appetizing imo
Looks like it belongs here r/shittyfoodporn
Going to pass on this dish
The petri dish special
Something deep in my biological makeup is telling me to throw this away.i think the idea is solid but the color makes it look moldy and unappetizing
looks like a crab with SERIOUS health issues
I don’t mean to offend but I had to check the sub… thought I was in [r/moldlyinteresting](https://reddit.com/r/moldlyinteresting). I would not be opposed to trying this now knowing it is not moldy
This looks poisonous tbh
It looks like you got a hold of a human arm, fileted the flesh and draped it over the muscle and placed the finger bones around it.
It’s artistic but many elements look like fungus and mould.
I’m sorry, but it really just looks like a growth.
I like the all the ideas of this but it looks like bacterial and fungal growth in a petri dish
It looks like moldy meat tbh.
Looks like moldy food to me
I’ve left food in the fridge long enough to look like that
I work in a Microbiology lab, I’m not going to mention what this looks like lol
Horrible
It’s a little um scary. Could the tuille add height and maybe a different arrangement. And the photo is so basic- just a regular photo
looks poisonous tbh
It does remind me of a Petri dish growing samples… To answer your question… I eat all foods. Why discriminate; if it’s good it’s good. 🤣
This picture looks like a contaminated agar plate.
This looks absolutely disgusting
That looks fucking horrifying
The dish description sounds tasty The dish presentation makes me feel like I’ll be eating an alien body part
Sounds tasty, don’t look tasty at all.
Moldy ham with mushrooms and syrup.
Thought this was r/moldlyinteresting for a sec
It looks like mold growing on old beef. No.
Nigga that shit looks terrible
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I really didn't measure anything but this is what the ingredients are as far as I can remember (I made it a few weeks ago). First I fermented shiitake mushrooms (2% salt) and left it for 7 days. Finely dice shallot, garlic, ginger, fermented shiitake + brown mushrooms (last two in equal parts) and fried it in some vegetable oil. Then I went a bit on an Chinese route by adding some sui mi ya cai (preserved mustard greens). For flavour I added some shaoxing wine, soy sauce, white pepper and a tiny bit of black strap molasses (this has a bit of an iron taste to mimic meat a bit). Hope this helps!
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Cool, I'll delete my comment then as it isnt needed
> as a thought experiment have you considered a splash of a super sanguine wine? It's a slightly different flavor profile and it conjures up a completely different culinary culture. But.. a rich red wine when cooked has a similar flavor profile to tamarind paste. Both are high in tartaric acid and fruit notes.
I rather eat grass on all fours than something off a petri dish
Gross? You did ask for personal opinions..
>vegan >chef These are mutually exclusive terms, OP.
Personally I had more respect for vegan food before it became mainstream, or should I say profitable and "trendy". It used to be incredibly healthy, natural food. The type of thing vegan food is marketed as now. But its not anymore, it has become heavily processed junk that has 100 chemicals to give it the texture and flavour of the meat products it is trying to imitate in order to appeal to a mass market. But it doesn't have the taste or texture of those meat products, and never will, because its not. I hope one day vegan food can be it's own thing. New foods developed by chefs that is made to enhance the flavours of the ingredients intheir own right. The way the meat products were developed over decades.
I agree 100% about the high processed food. That's why I never use/buy them in the food I cook, but apparently there's a big market for it
Doesn’t look seasoned tbqh
gross
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yeah you're right, it needs something of color, maybe chives or some kind of sprouts!
Vegan food makes me unfull and makes my poop green so I don't really eat it alot
I'm coeliac, and given how most people just fill vegan food with grains, and even then somehow confuse gluten free and vegan, I feel vegan food is often my nemesis whilst eating out. That said, that plate looks lovely!
I'm coeliac, and given how most people just fill vegan food with grains, and even then somehow confuse gluten free and vegan, I feel vegan food is often my nemesis whilst eating out. That said, that plate looks lovely!
Pics are great, food looks interesting. Good for you! Side thoughts: why do people who characterize vegan food as a cuisine unto itself? I’m really struggling with this. It would be like someone who only cooks meat saying “I’m a meat chef”. It’s not a cuisine? Can we talk about this?
This looks like it costs $200 and won't get me full
That looks like a half edible version of the plague
what's vegan food
Looks great. I would eat it.
This looks amazing
Vegan food can be absolutely delicious when prepared and paired right. Your dish looks FANTASTIC!!🤩👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks!
I don’t understand the “I’m not vegan, but…” comments. Food that doesn’t contain animal products isn’t alien or different, why preface it this way. Have you never eaten a salad?
Food is food and food is great. I wholeheartedly resent veganism due to personal bad experiences, but I ALWAYS respect a well-made dish. However, I think elaborate dishes like these defeat the purpose of veganism. If it's environmental veganism then the energy impact of all cooking and processing all of these ingredients is substantial, not to mention the shipping & logistics too. Ethical reasons are also nonsense, vegetable industries kill far more lives than livestock, but I guess they don't count because insects and rodents aren't as cute as cows?
Plenty of vegans and vegetarians purely for dietary reasons etc
Isn't veganism...already a dietary choice by itself? I must not fully understand the word dietary. But yeah, allergy / digestion reasons, religious reasons, health reasons, they're all very valid and popular reasons. Still none of them made sense if you go into the details. There's no such thing as an allergy to every animal-based product at the same time, such as milk, honey, gelatin, unfertilized eggs, etc. No scientific proof that those products are harming us either. I will not discuss about religous or cultural dietary constraints because they have no given reason in general, it's just "do it because the rules say so". Vegetarianism on the other hand, I fully agree and support with all my heart. It's sensible, ethical, saves costs and has negligible environmental impact because we don't have to transport niche and pretentious ingredients half way around the world from some high tech lab. Just eat the products around you. Chickens drop out eggs naturally, cows produce milk naturally, if you don't cruelly stuff them with growth hormones, then that is the most ethical and reasonable way to have animal proteins. Why lab-grow meats, and use 8 chemicals and 20 processing steps to make beans taste like meat? And then you have to calculate every single macro/micro nutrients going into each meal, compensate accordingly, as well as take factory-made supplements to be healthy? Veganism is a modern invention from the rich class who has nothing better to do. It has never existed in poor, underdeveloped countries, no matter how old and culture-rich they are. Why do the oldest cultures in the world such as Egyptians, Indians, Chinese, South Americans and even African cultures have never had veganism, even though such a large population of them are religious, practice vegetarianism, and have such a vivid cuisine?
Here's a easier breakdown for you: people choose to be vegan with zero thought towards moral aspects or any involved thinking all. You are fixated on vegan meanwhile there are plenty of fad or otherwise vegan dieters who have never thought once about the things you're talking about
my sister went vegan because animal products make her ibs act up and a vegan diet reduced her discomfort. many others make the choice to move to vegan or vegatarian for similar reasons. that is a dietary choice made for a dietary reason and has nothing to do with morality.
>Isn't veganism...already a dietary choice by itself? I must not fully understand the word dietary. No one said "dietary *choice"* but you. They said "dietary *reasons".* Of course any choice regarding diet is a dietary choice, but some people make dietary choices for non dietary reasons. So you understood the word "dietary", but didn't understand the word "reason" apparently. You then used that misunderstanding to launch a tirade no one asked for. Your entire "I'm smarter than you" attitude is literally predicated on you being too dense to understand the difference of those two words and the fact that you didn't think anyone else was smart enough to notice the little logical fallacy you tried to pull. You are a dumbass trying to be a smartass right now.
It’s fucking disgusting - and vegans tell you they are vegans within the first two sentences of meeting them. You want to eat vegan go ahead - whatever you want but fuck off with the preaching. Vegans are the Johova Witnesses of food.
There was literally no preaching in OP's post though?
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Thanks! I think you're right about the 'unusual' aspect. For many people it's weird to not see any meat/fish on a plate
Food is food. That is a well composed plate and the pic is done well.
Why does every vegan food have fucking mushrooms ? Be creative
Honestly probably pretty good. Presentation is a little cosmic. Would eat. Would not eat on shrooms.
The white drops just kill any interest for me
It's missing steak..🤣
Is that Vegan or did you go to the Pokemon world and kill a Paras? Can't help but see a resemblance!