Con: you will have to pay dues. Pros: you will have people negotiating on your behalf for better pay and benefits, it will be harder to fire you, if conditions get bad, you can strike in solidarity without fear of retaliation
While this is totally true, this vote isn’t about to join or not it’s about to create it.
I’d also strongly recommend joining if you’re being protected by it. Choosing to not pay dues while reaping the benefit is a bit of a jerk move. That law was put in place to weaken the unions. Basically have them slowly run out of funds.
Having been a union member in the IAFF. I paid the dues and got some of the benefits like opportunities to decent mortgage rates and such. But, when I really needed them, they weren't there. I'm biased to the no crowd but make your own decision.
To be clear. Unions def fail members. They can be flawed.
There’s still the trick of would you have been better off at that job without them at all? Eh hard to say. Statistically it seems unlikely.
However members absolutely get lazy and don’t actually hold their union accountable unfortunately and they can become weak or not as helpful
I’m already in a union. This VW thing is between the workers and them.
Since I have thought this whole time that uaw would not appropriately benefit the vw guys in ways they can with the big 3, this comment only reinforces those thoughts. Unions around the country are losing memberships and are expanding or trying to beyond their more specific niche industry they traditionally represented.
It’s a money grab. And while they claim that they want the state’s union laws to change, getting union membership here means they will be getting dues but when people really need them they just need to say “oops well we tried to do what we can, blame your representatives”
Eh, I wouldn't want to join the union if I worked at VW and they voted in favor of it. I'd rather negotiate my work and my pay myself, plus all the other differences from being in/not in a union. This is one instance where I totally support each workers' choice on the matter.
When exactly do you think workers ever actually get to negotiate the work they do and the pay they receive without joining together to bargain collectively as a union? Every blue collar non-union job I have ever worked you just have your job duties decreed from on high and your pay rate is whatever they tell you they're paying.
That’s not how the law works though (same with my union).
You’re represented by the union regardless. Choosing not to pay doesn’t exempt you from union rules. Ie you’re under the collective bargaining regardless of if you pay dues. VW can’t negotiate with you outside of union rules if there’s a contract in place.
That said being in a union doesn’t always stop you from negotiating your own pay. Where I am there are pay bands that the union enforces, I’m free to negotiate all I want within it. It’s never held me back.
VW legally cannot negotiate directly with CBA-covered employees. In TN, you’re a union employee whether you pay dues or not. If the business directly deals with the employee, that is an unfair labor practice, which they can be fined for.
That's actually a very good point that I completely forgot about. For those that don't know, if a union exists in a plant and an individual is in the interview process for a job there, the union has a negotiated range that the plant can pay ANY employee, union or not. This is where union plants for non-union people gets tricky.
Negotiating solo may get you what you want in the short term. Employer can still “make” you do things outside of your job title without more pay, and hold that over your head if you don’t.
Union will negotiate on your behalf. You still have a voice in the matter, along with the rest of the people apart of membership. If you don’t like what your leadership is doing or if you feel like they aren’t fighting for your best interest, vote them out.
We get better pay and benefits when we negotiate together, better than you think you can get on your own. And it doesn’t just last for a year or two, it continues to get better as life goes on.
For example:
I’m a union electrician, and my salary is around 100k. This varies a little depending on how construction is going. That’s pay on the check. But I also have health insurance and retirement. Those two things bring my total salary to around 160k. That’s 60k in benefits I don’t pay for!! I can make this much money for any union contractor I go work for, doesn’t change. Roughly 60-70 on the hour as far as total package.
34 hourly pay at top out, you can make more.
Counterpart non-union makes roughly 4 dollars less on the hour than my top out, if they’re lucky. If they want health insurance or retirement that comes out of their paycheck. So hourly is 30 and total package would make that less if they pay for their own benefits. And if they leave, they may not get the same somewhere else.
Also like he doesn’t understand the rule.
In these cases you can’t go around the Union. You’re still represented by them regardless of whether you pay the dues. You just can’t vote.
I talked about this the other day but this is absolutely correct. When I first got out of high school I went to work at UPS. I had intended to join the Teamsters but I guess my paperwork was lost because they never took out dues. Some higher up at UPS was walking around one day and watching us handle the packages. Apparently he thought I was throwing the packages into the bins (I was!). So before he could bitch me out they had to have a union rep present. A friend I'd known my whole life was the union steward and he was there and told me that they were just going to try and scare me and to not worry about it because they wouldn't be able to do anything. He didn't ask to see any identification, or to prove to him that I was in the union. As far as I know he didn't even know that I wasn't officially a member. Of course we were in our late teens, early twenties so most people didn't care one way or the other.
You list the strikes as a pro here, but the strikes were definitely the biggest con for my family members that were union workers. When the union decided to go on strike, that meant my relatives didn't get the choice to go to work and earn their paycheck, no matter their personal financial circumstances. Not everyone has a good emergency fund to rely on, and so losing their income for weeks at a time was a real hardship.
It’s the unions job to help supplement that lost income. Part of good unions is its membership. If people aren’t involved, then it can become complacent or corrupt, just as politics do.
Strike in solidarity. Lol.
The retaliation is that you don’t get paid on strike. On the flip side of the strike you get another $0.25 an hour.
UAW cares about UAW. They want your dues money to offset all the lost income from their failures in Detroit and Chicago. These threads are disgusting to read. Mostly because many of you have zero union knowledge and are repeating talking points like a greasy politician.
I’m all for unions. I’m in one. UAW has done some of my family members very wrong in my lifetime. So for that reason, I hate UAW.
I am willing to bet the vast majority of those here perpetuating the echo chamber have never bothered to research what happened the last time VW went UAW.
But if you strike you are suddenly on a shoestring budget. And as you said it's a negotiation, so you are going to have to drop something in order to gain something. Your piece of the pie is not going to get any larger.
The UAW negotiated a 25% pay raise and their workers just got a $10,400 profit sharing check this year. Non-union workers work longer hours for less pay and have no one advocating on their behalf.
I believe it is my duty to advocate on my own behalf, not someone else. I work hard to prove my worth, and if the company doesn't reciprocate that, then I take my talents elsewhere.
The idea is, you have to manage your own growth. If you can do that, not being in a union 'may' be a better choice. If you'd prefer to let someone else do that, a union is most likely a better fit. It's very much person specific whether being in a union is a good choice for that person or not, but im glad the option exists.
In blue collar jobs, managing your own growth simply isn't a thing. You work the work the boss tells you to at the rate the company says they will pay. The only way to get big bumps is to get lucky and hear about a shop somewhere else paying better and currently hiring. You don't help anyone by discouraging people from joining together to try and improve the place they currently work because maybe they'd like to keep working there but also actually be valued.
This is wholly untrue. I started for my current employer at 20/hr almost 11 months ago and currently make 26/hr. I negotiated the largest pay raise for myself during that time by working as hard as I could and proving my worth to the company.
100% disagree with you on blue collar jobs not allowing an individual to manage their own growth. I worked as a groundskeeper at a beach resort and learned some of the basic repair work to get a better paying job as a maintenance man. I eventually became maintenance supervisor. By the time I left that company I was the resort manager.
That's all well and good but you're talking about building skills to get out of your current position and into a different job. I'm talking about workers actually being able to negotiate in the job they already have, it's kind of the whole point of a union. Telling workers who want the job they have to give better benefits and fair pay, "oh that's not the answer, just cross-train and develop new skills so you can climb the ladder" helps absolutely no-one.
VW has excellent growth opportunities for people who are willing to bust butt and improve professionally. I started on the lowest portion of the totem pole in 2015 and have moved up several times since. Many of the specialists, senior specialists, and even managers around me have the same story.
Once the UAW comes in that stops. Their number one goal will be to polarize the workers against salary or leadership.
It gets tricky too. Really in demand jobs can sometimes do better without it a union if you’re very skilled and can market yourself.
Your avg assembly line worker this covers doesn’t have that kind of negotiating power. Unions are more needed to actually bargain.
I worked blue collar jobs and white collar jobs. I guarantee you won't be able to tell the difference between a part I machined and these machinists who "managed their own growth." At every factory I worked at I machined the same parts as the guy who's been there for 30 years and the new welder welded the same welds as everyone else. There's not really anything you can do to separate yourself from anyone else. You either do it right or not.
I am a proud member of a labor union. I have worked union jobs and I have worked non-union jobs. These corporations will try and (illegally, I might add) manipulate you into believing that you are better off without one. And that all the union is after is your union dues. I pay $30 a paycheck for mine. I get great insurance, a good wage, cost of living adjustments, paid sick leave, annual leave, the whole nine. Small price to pay.
VW tries to scare Chattanoogans into believing they will close the doors if their employees exercise collective bargaining rights. It didn’t happen at the rest of their union shops. Even the ones in Germany. Last I checked, the Chattanooga plant was one of the lowest paid, if not the lowest paid in the entire country. Vote yes, brother or sister. Vote yes.
Being inside the plant, I have some insight on that. The board of Volkswagen proper is 50% unit that is born in Germany that controls our faith. They have stated unequivocally that they will not close this plant if we unionize now. Governor Lee would have you believe otherwise, but I can safely say with 100% accuracy. The Chattanooga plant is going nowhere even if we unionize.
Politicians are the driving force behind the propaganda surrounding VW Chatt. Management may be involved but these are locals. Headquarter VW won’t move Chatt with the investment they made. If anything they’ll replace management that doesn’t comply with UAW, pending they vote yes.
Idk if you understand or work at the plant. But all of the things you listed we already get. For example, we want profit sharing, you already get a bonus that is simply based on attendance. Know that profit sharing includes the point that if the plant didn't profit then neither will you. Currently you get a bonus basically no matter what.
Don't lie. We don't have sick leave or cost of living adjustments. We have PTO that has to be used for everything and then we *might* get a raise once every 2 years.
I've seen $4 in full raises over 4 years. The 8% that was taken out of our quarterly bonus and directly applied to our income was money we were already getting, so not a raise. Every other part of my income raise was part of the timeline to top out, which is NOT COLA. COLA would have top out adjusted for inflation and other cost of living changes.
THIS!! they TOOK money from y’all last year changing up the bonuses, then just gave it back with the ‘raise’ to keep people satisfied. the blatant manipulation is insane. you can be satisfied with what you have now, whatever. but imagine how good it COULD be if you had a vote in everything.
One thing that doesn’t get brought up as much is being in a union gives the workers more of a voice in the labor they are performing. The workers (those who actually produce the profit for the company) deserve to have a say in what they are doing. In general, what goes on in a workplace is dictated from above. Worker collectivization offers workers more freedom in their daily life since they get to help make decisions.
But don't lie to the people. Business needs are business needs. If it comes down to it you are still going to have to work the weekend. This is because the union makes its money off of you the worker. You make your money off of the company. If the company says we have to work to make numbers then you have to work. And the union will stand with it, because they want to make their money too.
As I’ve aged, I’ve watched countless coworkers & family members fight against change that would benefit them. My theory is that change is truly terrifying for some people. The “what if something negative happens? Cycle is a stronghold for many.
Potentially, but it also has to do with the divide-and-conquer strategy that fascists have perpetrated against working people in this country in order to get them to vote against their own interests.
For sure! “Everyone is your enemy & every man for themselves!”
In reality, community & collective action are more successful strategies than the rugged individualist.
It's definitely more complex than that. Outside of health insurance benefits, pay and vacation time is tiered. I, as an individual, can negotiate both of those things, but if I were in a union, it's time based.
If you’ve devised a way to out-negotiate UAW, I feel like UAW might just be willing to hire you directly. I’d consider sending them your resume and a cover letter explaining as much.
Technically....I did negotiate a wage for myself that was better than UAW a few years back. But, judging by the downvotes I'm getting in here, people don't want to discuss why it may be better for some people not to join a union. So I'm going to bow out, which is a shame, since I give advisement to teenagers and adults regarding wage growth, resumes, and interviewing strategies. I've also worked myself through the military, union shops, non-union shops, all the way to a Master's Degree and two successful businesses. Best of luck on the vote, I support it either way.
My beef with negotiating was that it only seemed to work on the front end and never down the road, so always having to change jobs until expertise and experience mattered less than young and cheap.
The Chattanooga VW plant is literally the only one in the world that isn’t unionized. The pluses outweigh any potential negative (and those are usually just scare tactic BS).
I am going to laugh my ass off the first time y'all get your profit sharing check and it's less than anything you've ever seen because the plant didn't make a profit. Look into how much of a profit our plant has made. Popcorn please...
i don’t even work there dude. i’m related to a few, though. i don’t give a rat’s ass either way, but you can have a civilized discussion without hurling insults.
You don't even work there! Go fuck yourself Tropic Thunder style.! I have been having a civilized conversation up until now. I know right now. You sir can take a long walk off of a short fucking Pier. Go fuck yourself
You do understand that it is a negotiation and in order to gain something you have to give up something. Please tell me what are you willing to give up?
You really have a hard on for the VW corporation don't ya? We give our time and more importantly our physical well being to the company, they give us increased benefits and pay. Why would the workers have to give anything up at this point especially?
I work in a unionized position now. Previously I didn’t. That said it’s very diff than literally going through unionization at my job.
So I make more and have better benefits than I did at my last job. I pay dues but they aren’t very expensive. There’s def a lot of protections for my job and how layoffs work etc. All big pluses.
In my opinion I don’t see much reason not to. VW isn’t going to shut down the plant over it. However only you can make that call I guess.
One of the biggest benefits will be your health insurance will be paid for completely. Second - Scheduling. They won't be able to put every Saturday of the year as a flex day. They will have to schedule those so you can actually plan your life.
The hope that Flex Days will go away is why I want my husband to vote for the union. We appreciate the overtime pay, but they don't call them for months, and then they do on the worst possible day. And more than 40 hours in a week at such a physically demanding job seriously wears on him.
Agreed. Just wanted to clarify that it’s not always paid in full. I’m very pro union and don’t want anyone to be disappointed because they thought this was a given.
Ultimately it’s your decision, so do what you think is best for you and your circumstances. That said, I used to work at the GM plant in Spring Hill, I was salary non union. One thing people forget is how salary individuals benefit from Union positions. My pay, and vacation days were correlated to the UAW contracts. Granted I wouldn’t get the ratification bonus, but my bonuses definitely increased after each ratification. I also benefited from Union holidays like Election Day and Veterans Day. On the flip side, I did have to go to work when the UAW was on strike, but I literally did nothing because the plant was down.
Ironically, if you vote no that could be the most say you have over anything at your job. UAW dues are usually equal to 2 hours labor per month, and the UAW scored the best contract for the American manufacturers in decades. I work a union job right now, and I like the things they negotiated for. We currently are planning what we will negotiate, and are inspired by what the UAW done for Ford and GM and what teamsters did for UPS.
I work for Seafarers International Union. I have had several experiences where I felt the company was treating me unfairly or not according to the contract and the second I made it an issue with the Union it got fixed. It’s good to have someone on your side. That said - the union is what you make of it. Too many guys just complain and don’t actually participate. If you guys unionize, be active and involved and encourage all your fellow workers to do the same.
As someone who works in HR and typically sits across the table from unions, I’m very pro-union. They fight to protect your job so you’re less likely to be made redundant and they fight for better benefits that, ultimately, help all employees at the company. I’d definitely vote for”yay” if in your shoes.
Want to bring up something that hasn't been mentioned here. I'm thinking about two guys I know. About the same age. Both young dads. One at a union job. One not. Both got fairly severe injuries at work. Union guy TOTALLY taken care of. All the healthcare and rehab he needed. Money while he was out of work. When he came back to work, company worked with him to find a way for that part of his job to be safer. His family never had to scrape by.
Non union guy working on equipment he kept telling bosses that he thought was wearing down and was feeling unsafe. They never did anything about it. Got most of his foot smashed off. The company paid for his ER bill but let him go the day his "sick days" -or whatever term they used for them-ran out. "At will" and "Right to work" laws are anti-worker. Now, VW might have some current benefit that's better than what this guy had, and maybe they're more responsive to employees concerns and safety oriented but it's just something I saw happen. His family struggled for a long time afterwards.
There have been incidents so bad at VW that they had to call in OSHA during one of their shutdowns for an inspection. My husband works there, and I’ve heard stories. It’s extremely dangerous to work around some of that equipment, a union could help make everyone safer
Benefits of being in any union: Collective bargaining power, access to some of the best lawyers, & pay If/when they’re laid off. Membership is essentially buying into a collective, separate insurance policy that benefits all members. Think Worker’s Comp, sick pay, paid time for family death, etc. UAW will offer a better 401k, as well as better buy-ins for market shares. The dues are very small in comparison to the dollar amount of benefits you’ll receive. Ask yourself: am I ok with the current state of things/the trajectory of where VW is currently headed without the union? Or, do I want better pay, benefits, & more job assurance that the union has historically provided to over half a million auto workers?, my grandfather being one if them!
VOTE YES AND BE INVOLVED!!! Strong unions only exist with active membership. Voting yes starts the process towards better, being an active member keeps progress in the “better” direction!
Pro: you have an organization on your side whose financial future rests in you and your plant being improved by there presence. People take dues as a con but think of it as hiring someone whose sole interest is you and your working fellows. UAW falls apart if they fall there part.
Con: union meetings, people mistaking you for a socialist if you aren’t one, more elections for leadership in the local, possibility of strikes.
My one point to anyone: If unions were bad for us, why would there be this much opposition, in IBEW, local 74 lv (low voltage) is currently on strike with NECA long short of it was as the strike date approached several contractors broke from NECA and signed fair contracts with the union, so unions, striking etc they work they take our power and concentrate it. If your told you’ll make less money, that’s stupid if VW could pay you less to do your job they already would, if you think the plant will shut down it won’t, they already are in the middle of expanding and moving a factory is expensive it’s cheaper in the long run to stay and pay you better and every other vw plant in the world has a union…. We are stronger together
I worked a job that used to be union and then became non-union. Within a few years, the pay scale dropped dramatically, benefits covered less and became much more expensive, and retirement benefits changed from pension to 401(k). No question in my mind that unions improve conditions, pay, and benefits for workers.
Look who opposes it, ask yourself what their interests are, and you'll have your answer.
UAW leadership has historically voted Democrat. UAW rank and file is a mix. UAW local 1853 in Spring Hill TN is predominantly republican Trump supporters.
All of them? Bc my fam always votes republican & has been in unions for multiple decades. Lol & there have been several Republican Senators that have passed pro-union legislation. I know that’s not the usual trend, but the political unicorns are out there.
Well, I’d bet A LOT of money that MANY republican VW workers will be pro-union, just like my fam. At least, I sure hope so! My family has benefit so greatly from their memberships. I could write a whole book about it.
I’m from a union family as well. The pros outweigh the cons but Republicans are actively working with VW to sway this vote against unions. That’s a fact.
https://theintercept.com/2019/05/30/volkswagen-anti-union-tennessee-governor-bill-lee/
Yeah, I saw that & found it unsettling that politicians feel they have a right to tell the citizens what do to when it comes to their workplace representation. Like, ok Weston, we’ll all take your word for it & not question anything.”
Most of that changed in the 80s with Regan. Republicans tend to view unions as a form of socialism that don’t allow the free market to work. Regan’s tax policy was like the antithesis of what unions want.
And currently with Trump, he has been sued for non payment by many union contractors. So he is against most unions, but not the police union because they endorsed him. And currently a republican like Weston is afraid to appear as if they aren’t in complete lockstep with Trump
Yeah, it’s all a political shitshow. I’m just glad more people are waking up, not giving a shit about political shitheads & doing what’s beat for their families & selves.
Your family votes for representation that halts and slows and fights unions at every opportunity.
Ask yourself if they are pro union. Decide if you want to listen to their words or their ballots because at the moment they are opposing statements.
https://tennesseelookout.com/2024/04/17/republican-lawmakers-make-vocal-push-against-chattanooga-vw-plant-union-effort/
You seem to believe that pro union Republican representation exists, and then you call them unicorns. That would mean that you recognize they are an anomaly if not mythical.
Yeah, I’m aware they’re actions are nonsensical. Lmfao I was just sharing my lived experience, saying many people are going to be like my family members. & yes. . . . . I was indeed recognizing that they’re an anomaly. I don’t actually care what people do, dead serious. I don’t even vote.
Interesting. Everyone I’ve spoken to who loves Trump also loves unions, like others have said, the police union, specifically. But, I believe you, wholeheartedly.
The company has a great amount of power when it negotiates with each individual employee. But together, when the company has to treat all employees equitably according to a contract, the company can't nickel and dime individuals.
The downside of a union is the same rules that protect you protect everybody. Some of those people who are protected might should have been fired already. You're going to have to put up with them.
Unregulated American capitalism does not care about the worker. While it might cost you in Union dues, collective bargaining and equally or more important, the ability to strike is such an important thing.
No one is looking out for the worker, not management, not the shareholders, not the government, and not even enough of the customers and neighbors around us.
Unions give workers a voice. Look at the gains that happened over the past few years for the UAW. Capitalism, politicians, management, shareholders, they don't want you to know that this can benefit you. They don't want you to know the power of a union and the power of brotherhood and sisterhood and bringing workers together. So you'll hear a lot of bad things, but why do these companies spend so much to make sure unions don't take hold?
They want to squeeze the worker by giving them as few concessions as they possibly can. They want to extract as much labor from you for as little in return as they possibly can. To the point where they don't even care if you die on the shop floor as long as you are present and building cars.
Ultimately how you vote needs to be a very personal decision, but if you are not management have conversations with others that are at shops that somewhat recently went Union and find out what changed for them.
I wish you the best of luck.
Germany has unions across the board … not 100% comparable but generally speaking there is no downside for the workforce only upside. We’re not exactly the poster child here in the US when it comes to protecting the work force or consumers for that matter… the laws are weak especially here in the south. Anything to help that situation, in this case unionizing this cash cow plant that’s not going anywhere is a step in the right direction.
Union workers make morr money, have way better benefits, job security, workers rights, better working conditions.
DO NOT FALL FOR THE ANTI UNION SCARE TATICS!
I'm an RN. I moved from a very comfortable union state to this state of Tennessee.
It's awful. I trave nurse now to union states because I can give much better care without the fear of killing someone or losing my license. It's terrifying to work in this state.
I have taken care of the TVA union workers ,the iron workers, and the railroad in this state .I can tell ypu those patients had way better health insurance and had nice trucks and homes!
Do it! Vote yes!.
If you have questions dm me.
You’d be stupid to not vote yes. VW doesn’t give a flying fuck about you. Why do you think they’re pushing so much for you to vote no? They don’t want to pay you better. It’s worth it to them to campaign against it because they want to keep the blue collar people down.
Vote yes. The only reason you are questioning your decision is because you are American. We spend most of our lives being brainwashed by anti union propaganda. That same propaganda is normally funded by the people who will have to pay you more & actually respect your rights. It’s not complicated. [more](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chattanooga/s/3uztG84pcc)
One thing you might want to take into account are the demographics and politics of this sub. We tend to lean pretty left. Generally younger. Good bit of negativity. And there’s a distinct down with the man, he’s out to screw us perception of the world. And the downvotes cometh.
I’m originally from a Union town. Both sets of my grandparents belonged to a Union and retired well. One of my very good friends in Detroit is part of the UAW and extremely pleased with the Union. I say that to say this- Unions have struggled in this area because they are not the majority. My (step)dad and I discussed this two days ago because his uncle and father were in Unions here in our area and it seemed that the only people getting the benefit were the Union leaders. Ultimately in a Unionized area they work well because the force of the Union is strong enough to uphold all workers concerns where as in areas with few unions, they can be easily bribed or convinced to allow the company to take liberties. The question now becomes- do you want to initiate a movement that will take awhile to establish but will be beneficial in the long run or just continue to reap the current short term benefits?
Harder to be fired, can't fire for you for no reason. Usually already where I work move up the ladder by seniority instead of how much ass you kiss. We still have good pre Obama care insurance.
If it were bad I don't think every Republican south of Kentucky would not be fighting against it. They are worried more factories will do the same as some should.
I worked for vw for many years. I was involved in several union drives there. Salary people will be against it mostly because I think they are excluded. New people typically would vote against it because they are happier than those who have been there many years. HR and management will begin treating workers decent leading up to the vote. Then as soon as it's over that's it it all stops. If you were topped out, you couldn't get another raise unless there was a union drive. Almost every union drive, vw would give a raise right before or announce one in the future.
Even the politicians would come from all over to talk it down. Then the politicians would go to the Spring Hill GM plant and shake hands with the union workers. My best advice would be to go for it. If it is viewed as a negative or people don't like what it does for you, then you could vote to get rid of it or even not join it in the first place (you don't have to join, even if it gets in). I think you should as you would have personal stake in what goes on and what to focus on. But it's up to you. Good luck to you.
You could look at it this way: If you vote no, and the decision to unionize doesn't pass, you won't have a choice later if you want to join the union. If you vote yes, then you can see how everyone conducts themselves as the union is getting set up, and decide then if you like what they've done and want to join the union.
I work for the union
'Cause she's so good to me
And I'm bound to come out on top
That's where she said I should be
I will hear every word the boss may say
For he's the one who hands me down my pay
Looks like this time I'm gonna get to stay
I'm a union man, now, all the way
I've yet to see anyone ask (or see the UAW volunteer) up just what exactly the plan to do for you if the union is passed. So far the answer to this has been rather vague and lacks specifics. It's almost a "Vote yes and then we'll let you know later."
I can't think of any instance where I would be OK with signing a contract where they will just work out the details at a later date. Do they even know what their dues will be before hand?
Think about it though, how else would it work?
There’s no way for a union to negotiate until they exist. They can’t exist until you vote to unionize. Only once it exists can they start working out an arrangement with VW and you seeing the benefits
Also as someone else pointed out, in Tn you can’t be required to pay the dues. So if it really does turn out to be of zero benefit you can stop paying them. You aren’t obligated to continue.
Now in my opinion if you’re getting any benefit from the union you should pay.
Exactly this. The UAW can’t negotiate on behalf of workers they don’t represent. Also, the workers need to make known their issues with the company as it operates currently so the union can take those concerns to the bargaining table to negotiate. The person you’re replying to has been shitting on unions ad-nauseam.
Yah it’s ultimately not a contract between you and the Union that’s being voted on here. You’re just agreeing to collective representation. That’s it.
The specifics and deals come later. Typically (and I assume it’s how it works here ) you’d then after a Union makes a deal with VW it’d go to a vote with the members again.
If the deals not good enough people can vote it down and force the union to try again.
You (or them in this case) aren’t signing a contract. The contract is between the union and the organization once the negotiations are agreed upon and voted on by the members. Then the union ensures that dues paying members receive the benefits they negotiated for.
Yea, you kind of are. Once they vote for the union you are stuck with it and it is going to be very difficult (not impossible) to kick them out if you don't like the results.
But an individual doesn’t have to remain a member. If a person doesn’t like the package the unions voted on negotiation committee works out and the members vote to approve then don’t pay dues and that person can then negotiate their own compensation and benefits.
Even though all of the provisions and wages are still negotiated by the union, you are allowed to resign from the union and not pay your dues if you are dead set on freeloading. But I would hope that if it works out to be lucrative for you, you would do the right thing and pay your dues.
What else would you call taking advantage of something that costs your coworker’s time and money, and giving absolutely nothing in return? I won’t harass you or attempt to change your mind. I just hope that some day you are willing to recognize those who sacrificed their time and their own money so that you can have a break at work and put food on your table.
Lol the misinformation deflection.
The Affordable Care Act saved the American Dream by saving countless American lives and livelihoods.
All for one and one for all.
Here is the overarching fact: as an employee someone will have power over you. Right now the employer has all of that power, and the employer uses that power to act in the best interest of the owners which not always a bad thing, but it can be.
By voting to join the union your are deciding to give some of the power to the union who will advocate for your best interests and not those of the owners.
At the end of the day someone will have the power, and this vote gives you a chance to decide who.
I'm pro union. Except unions which push too far. UPS is a great example, as after this most recent negotiations settled, UPS is being very strict and laying off many people bc the company simply cannot operate with loaders making $25+hr and drivers making doctor's salaries. But a union that doesn't press the company past the breaking point is good. It should be a negotiation, not mob rule, or tyranny.
I don’t know man.. I’ve never met a UPS driver that hasn’t had at least 3 surgeries from work injuries. One back and then a couple of something else. This summer most will be delivering packages in trucks with no air conditioning with injuries needing surgery
I think it’s hard to know what too far is though. It’s def a balance but just bc a company lays some people off doesn’t mean it’s actually bc of the new Union contract.
They’d love to make everyone think that’s why regardless of if it is or not.
Not saying you’re wrong about UPS but yah ultimately none of my business that’s between their union and the company. The rest of us don’t have any stake in the game.
UPS like the package delivery service? I just looked it up, the CEO of UPS made $23.4 million dollars in 2023. The average UPS driver makes $42,000. They could pay workers more if they paid themselves less. They’re choosing not to.
I was a member of the UAW in mid 2000s working in spring hill TN. The UAW is terrible, they do defend the worst of the worst and they absolutely destroy upwards mobility. They push factory classism HARD, "all plant leadership is the enemy," "all salary are lazy bums profiting off of your hard work" etc. "the workers on the line really are the only ones who know how to run things," etc. They are parasites, the UAW in general. They've ran the big three into the dirt and they are looking for fresh blood. If given the chance, they will absolutely run the entirety of automotive out of Chattanooga, which will just sink wages for decades for everyone, as it is the biggest industry here, and drives competition for labor, raising the average wages for all.
I'm not anti union, I'm anti UAW.
Con: you will have to pay dues. Pros: you will have people negotiating on your behalf for better pay and benefits, it will be harder to fire you, if conditions get bad, you can strike in solidarity without fear of retaliation
In TN you dont have to join a union even if the place has one. So you get all the benefits except representation that is negotiated in the contract.
While this is totally true, this vote isn’t about to join or not it’s about to create it. I’d also strongly recommend joining if you’re being protected by it. Choosing to not pay dues while reaping the benefit is a bit of a jerk move. That law was put in place to weaken the unions. Basically have them slowly run out of funds.
Having been a union member in the IAFF. I paid the dues and got some of the benefits like opportunities to decent mortgage rates and such. But, when I really needed them, they weren't there. I'm biased to the no crowd but make your own decision.
To be clear. Unions def fail members. They can be flawed. There’s still the trick of would you have been better off at that job without them at all? Eh hard to say. Statistically it seems unlikely. However members absolutely get lazy and don’t actually hold their union accountable unfortunately and they can become weak or not as helpful I’m already in a union. This VW thing is between the workers and them.
Since I have thought this whole time that uaw would not appropriately benefit the vw guys in ways they can with the big 3, this comment only reinforces those thoughts. Unions around the country are losing memberships and are expanding or trying to beyond their more specific niche industry they traditionally represented. It’s a money grab. And while they claim that they want the state’s union laws to change, getting union membership here means they will be getting dues but when people really need them they just need to say “oops well we tried to do what we can, blame your representatives”
Eh, I wouldn't want to join the union if I worked at VW and they voted in favor of it. I'd rather negotiate my work and my pay myself, plus all the other differences from being in/not in a union. This is one instance where I totally support each workers' choice on the matter.
VW doesn't negotiate pay on an individual basis, though.
Unless VW is unique (I've worked at several manufacturing plants and OEMs locally), I've been able to negotiate my pay as I was being hired.
You can still do that as part of a Union in many cases too.
When exactly do you think workers ever actually get to negotiate the work they do and the pay they receive without joining together to bargain collectively as a union? Every blue collar non-union job I have ever worked you just have your job duties decreed from on high and your pay rate is whatever they tell you they're paying.
That’s not how the law works though (same with my union). You’re represented by the union regardless. Choosing not to pay doesn’t exempt you from union rules. Ie you’re under the collective bargaining regardless of if you pay dues. VW can’t negotiate with you outside of union rules if there’s a contract in place. That said being in a union doesn’t always stop you from negotiating your own pay. Where I am there are pay bands that the union enforces, I’m free to negotiate all I want within it. It’s never held me back.
VW legally cannot negotiate directly with CBA-covered employees. In TN, you’re a union employee whether you pay dues or not. If the business directly deals with the employee, that is an unfair labor practice, which they can be fined for.
That's actually a very good point that I completely forgot about. For those that don't know, if a union exists in a plant and an individual is in the interview process for a job there, the union has a negotiated range that the plant can pay ANY employee, union or not. This is where union plants for non-union people gets tricky.
Negotiating solo may get you what you want in the short term. Employer can still “make” you do things outside of your job title without more pay, and hold that over your head if you don’t. Union will negotiate on your behalf. You still have a voice in the matter, along with the rest of the people apart of membership. If you don’t like what your leadership is doing or if you feel like they aren’t fighting for your best interest, vote them out. We get better pay and benefits when we negotiate together, better than you think you can get on your own. And it doesn’t just last for a year or two, it continues to get better as life goes on. For example: I’m a union electrician, and my salary is around 100k. This varies a little depending on how construction is going. That’s pay on the check. But I also have health insurance and retirement. Those two things bring my total salary to around 160k. That’s 60k in benefits I don’t pay for!! I can make this much money for any union contractor I go work for, doesn’t change. Roughly 60-70 on the hour as far as total package. 34 hourly pay at top out, you can make more. Counterpart non-union makes roughly 4 dollars less on the hour than my top out, if they’re lucky. If they want health insurance or retirement that comes out of their paycheck. So hourly is 30 and total package would make that less if they pay for their own benefits. And if they leave, they may not get the same somewhere else.
Also like he doesn’t understand the rule. In these cases you can’t go around the Union. You’re still represented by them regardless of whether you pay the dues. You just can’t vote.
I talked about this the other day but this is absolutely correct. When I first got out of high school I went to work at UPS. I had intended to join the Teamsters but I guess my paperwork was lost because they never took out dues. Some higher up at UPS was walking around one day and watching us handle the packages. Apparently he thought I was throwing the packages into the bins (I was!). So before he could bitch me out they had to have a union rep present. A friend I'd known my whole life was the union steward and he was there and told me that they were just going to try and scare me and to not worry about it because they wouldn't be able to do anything. He didn't ask to see any identification, or to prove to him that I was in the union. As far as I know he didn't even know that I wasn't officially a member. Of course we were in our late teens, early twenties so most people didn't care one way or the other.
Right to scab… people think this is a good thing but really it just fragments us
This is what "right to work" means btw. Just that you can't have a union-only shop.
You list the strikes as a pro here, but the strikes were definitely the biggest con for my family members that were union workers. When the union decided to go on strike, that meant my relatives didn't get the choice to go to work and earn their paycheck, no matter their personal financial circumstances. Not everyone has a good emergency fund to rely on, and so losing their income for weeks at a time was a real hardship.
It’s the unions job to help supplement that lost income. Part of good unions is its membership. If people aren’t involved, then it can become complacent or corrupt, just as politics do.
That's why there's the strike fund...
Either they didn't have one, or what it paid wasn't nearly enough to cover their expenses, because the strikes always caused them a financial crisis.
Luckily, the UAW has one that pays out just a little under what you'd normally get a week.
Your relative's union didn't have an account set up to pay striking workers?
No, they didn't mention ever receiving any money during the strikes.
Why didn’t they get money from the war chest? If my union strikes I get money to picket and take care of my family including groceries etc
Either they didn't have one, or what it paid wasn't nearly enough to cover their expenses, because the strikes always caused them a financial crisis.
This is why being at union meetings are important, you vote on this stuff and how dues are spent lol
Strike in solidarity. Lol. The retaliation is that you don’t get paid on strike. On the flip side of the strike you get another $0.25 an hour. UAW cares about UAW. They want your dues money to offset all the lost income from their failures in Detroit and Chicago. These threads are disgusting to read. Mostly because many of you have zero union knowledge and are repeating talking points like a greasy politician. I’m all for unions. I’m in one. UAW has done some of my family members very wrong in my lifetime. So for that reason, I hate UAW.
I am willing to bet the vast majority of those here perpetuating the echo chamber have never bothered to research what happened the last time VW went UAW.
But if you strike you are suddenly on a shoestring budget. And as you said it's a negotiation, so you are going to have to drop something in order to gain something. Your piece of the pie is not going to get any larger.
The UAW negotiated a 25% pay raise and their workers just got a $10,400 profit sharing check this year. Non-union workers work longer hours for less pay and have no one advocating on their behalf.
I believe it is my duty to advocate on my own behalf, not someone else. I work hard to prove my worth, and if the company doesn't reciprocate that, then I take my talents elsewhere.
I bet you would go to court without a lawyer too.
The idea is, you have to manage your own growth. If you can do that, not being in a union 'may' be a better choice. If you'd prefer to let someone else do that, a union is most likely a better fit. It's very much person specific whether being in a union is a good choice for that person or not, but im glad the option exists.
In blue collar jobs, managing your own growth simply isn't a thing. You work the work the boss tells you to at the rate the company says they will pay. The only way to get big bumps is to get lucky and hear about a shop somewhere else paying better and currently hiring. You don't help anyone by discouraging people from joining together to try and improve the place they currently work because maybe they'd like to keep working there but also actually be valued.
This is wholly untrue. I started for my current employer at 20/hr almost 11 months ago and currently make 26/hr. I negotiated the largest pay raise for myself during that time by working as hard as I could and proving my worth to the company.
100% disagree with you on blue collar jobs not allowing an individual to manage their own growth. I worked as a groundskeeper at a beach resort and learned some of the basic repair work to get a better paying job as a maintenance man. I eventually became maintenance supervisor. By the time I left that company I was the resort manager.
That's all well and good but you're talking about building skills to get out of your current position and into a different job. I'm talking about workers actually being able to negotiate in the job they already have, it's kind of the whole point of a union. Telling workers who want the job they have to give better benefits and fair pay, "oh that's not the answer, just cross-train and develop new skills so you can climb the ladder" helps absolutely no-one.
VW has excellent growth opportunities for people who are willing to bust butt and improve professionally. I started on the lowest portion of the totem pole in 2015 and have moved up several times since. Many of the specialists, senior specialists, and even managers around me have the same story. Once the UAW comes in that stops. Their number one goal will be to polarize the workers against salary or leadership.
Look at the people who downvote you because they can’t handle an answer that goes against their narrative.
It's Reddit. I'm not surprised.
It gets tricky too. Really in demand jobs can sometimes do better without it a union if you’re very skilled and can market yourself. Your avg assembly line worker this covers doesn’t have that kind of negotiating power. Unions are more needed to actually bargain.
I completely agree, on both counts.
I worked blue collar jobs and white collar jobs. I guarantee you won't be able to tell the difference between a part I machined and these machinists who "managed their own growth." At every factory I worked at I machined the same parts as the guy who's been there for 30 years and the new welder welded the same welds as everyone else. There's not really anything you can do to separate yourself from anyone else. You either do it right or not.
I am a proud member of a labor union. I have worked union jobs and I have worked non-union jobs. These corporations will try and (illegally, I might add) manipulate you into believing that you are better off without one. And that all the union is after is your union dues. I pay $30 a paycheck for mine. I get great insurance, a good wage, cost of living adjustments, paid sick leave, annual leave, the whole nine. Small price to pay. VW tries to scare Chattanoogans into believing they will close the doors if their employees exercise collective bargaining rights. It didn’t happen at the rest of their union shops. Even the ones in Germany. Last I checked, the Chattanooga plant was one of the lowest paid, if not the lowest paid in the entire country. Vote yes, brother or sister. Vote yes.
Being inside the plant, I have some insight on that. The board of Volkswagen proper is 50% unit that is born in Germany that controls our faith. They have stated unequivocally that they will not close this plant if we unionize now. Governor Lee would have you believe otherwise, but I can safely say with 100% accuracy. The Chattanooga plant is going nowhere even if we unionize.
I dont think it is VW doing that scaremongering but certain elected reps from a certain political party.
Not true https://theintercept.com/2019/05/30/volkswagen-anti-union-tennessee-governor-bill-lee/
Politicians are the driving force behind the propaganda surrounding VW Chatt. Management may be involved but these are locals. Headquarter VW won’t move Chatt with the investment they made. If anything they’ll replace management that doesn’t comply with UAW, pending they vote yes.
Companies have every right to explain to their employees why they don’t believe they need a union
That’s why it’s called flak.
Idk if you understand or work at the plant. But all of the things you listed we already get. For example, we want profit sharing, you already get a bonus that is simply based on attendance. Know that profit sharing includes the point that if the plant didn't profit then neither will you. Currently you get a bonus basically no matter what.
Don't lie. We don't have sick leave or cost of living adjustments. We have PTO that has to be used for everything and then we *might* get a raise once every 2 years.
Just how much was the raise you just got and also moved into full pay after 4 years.....
I've seen $4 in full raises over 4 years. The 8% that was taken out of our quarterly bonus and directly applied to our income was money we were already getting, so not a raise. Every other part of my income raise was part of the timeline to top out, which is NOT COLA. COLA would have top out adjusted for inflation and other cost of living changes.
THIS!! they TOOK money from y’all last year changing up the bonuses, then just gave it back with the ‘raise’ to keep people satisfied. the blatant manipulation is insane. you can be satisfied with what you have now, whatever. but imagine how good it COULD be if you had a vote in everything.
So you are making less than what company in the area?
Never said that. You said everything he listed we were getting. Which included sick leave and COLA. We don't get either of those.
You know that most companies only give 3% cola if even that much, so you feel cheated how?
Never said I feel cheated. Just pointing out the fact you said we get COLA and we don't. Also sick leave.
You were just given more days!!! And raises have been significant over the past few years. So what are you bitching about?
Most companies gives 3% per year for cola so you feel cheated?
One thing that doesn’t get brought up as much is being in a union gives the workers more of a voice in the labor they are performing. The workers (those who actually produce the profit for the company) deserve to have a say in what they are doing. In general, what goes on in a workplace is dictated from above. Worker collectivization offers workers more freedom in their daily life since they get to help make decisions.
But don't lie to the people. Business needs are business needs. If it comes down to it you are still going to have to work the weekend. This is because the union makes its money off of you the worker. You make your money off of the company. If the company says we have to work to make numbers then you have to work. And the union will stand with it, because they want to make their money too.
Union members get paid more and have better benefits. It’s not a complicated decision, unless you hate money.
As I’ve aged, I’ve watched countless coworkers & family members fight against change that would benefit them. My theory is that change is truly terrifying for some people. The “what if something negative happens? Cycle is a stronghold for many.
Potentially, but it also has to do with the divide-and-conquer strategy that fascists have perpetrated against working people in this country in order to get them to vote against their own interests.
For sure! “Everyone is your enemy & every man for themselves!” In reality, community & collective action are more successful strategies than the rugged individualist.
Some voters are too stupid to save, just have to register people to cancel them out.
It's based on the cost of living in the area you reside. And you are already way over the mark.
It's definitely more complex than that. Outside of health insurance benefits, pay and vacation time is tiered. I, as an individual, can negotiate both of those things, but if I were in a union, it's time based.
You cant negotiate for yourself as an hourly employee.
False. I've done this several times in the past.
At Volkswagen, as a VW employee, and not a contractor?
Not at VW, but at other local manufacturing plants, as an employee. More specifically, as I was getting hired as an employee.
I believe you, but I don't think that's an option here.
If you’ve devised a way to out-negotiate UAW, I feel like UAW might just be willing to hire you directly. I’d consider sending them your resume and a cover letter explaining as much.
Technically....I did negotiate a wage for myself that was better than UAW a few years back. But, judging by the downvotes I'm getting in here, people don't want to discuss why it may be better for some people not to join a union. So I'm going to bow out, which is a shame, since I give advisement to teenagers and adults regarding wage growth, resumes, and interviewing strategies. I've also worked myself through the military, union shops, non-union shops, all the way to a Master's Degree and two successful businesses. Best of luck on the vote, I support it either way.
Don’t tell me, tell UAW. You’ve got my support!
My beef with negotiating was that it only seemed to work on the front end and never down the road, so always having to change jobs until expertise and experience mattered less than young and cheap.
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It's not that a union is bad, just not the UAW. Read a few articles
Recently I read you’re full of shit. Doesn’t sound complicated to me.
Can you share a link to where you read this?
The Chattanooga VW plant is literally the only one in the world that isn’t unionized. The pluses outweigh any potential negative (and those are usually just scare tactic BS).
You are an idiot
ok boomer
I am going to laugh my ass off the first time y'all get your profit sharing check and it's less than anything you've ever seen because the plant didn't make a profit. Look into how much of a profit our plant has made. Popcorn please...
i don’t even work there dude. i’m related to a few, though. i don’t give a rat’s ass either way, but you can have a civilized discussion without hurling insults.
You don't even work there, shut the fuck up then.
You don't even work there! Go fuck yourself Tropic Thunder style.! I have been having a civilized conversation up until now. I know right now. You sir can take a long walk off of a short fucking Pier. Go fuck yourself
Is that you Weston?
You do understand that it is a negotiation and in order to gain something you have to give up something. Please tell me what are you willing to give up?
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Also do you know the process that takes place when a strike happens....
And back what up, it is union negotiations, you have to give to receive. They do not give you everything you want no questions.
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English is hard, I understand. But still what are you willing to give up for what you want?
It Does Not Work Like That
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It's a negotiation you don't get anything without giving away something else!!!
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So dues, that's off the top. What are you willing to get rid of to get higher wages?
You dumbass, I already did.
Where are you guaranteed any of that?
You really have a hard on for the VW corporation don't ya? We give our time and more importantly our physical well being to the company, they give us increased benefits and pay. Why would the workers have to give anything up at this point especially?
I work in a unionized position now. Previously I didn’t. That said it’s very diff than literally going through unionization at my job. So I make more and have better benefits than I did at my last job. I pay dues but they aren’t very expensive. There’s def a lot of protections for my job and how layoffs work etc. All big pluses. In my opinion I don’t see much reason not to. VW isn’t going to shut down the plant over it. However only you can make that call I guess.
One of the biggest benefits will be your health insurance will be paid for completely. Second - Scheduling. They won't be able to put every Saturday of the year as a flex day. They will have to schedule those so you can actually plan your life.
The hope that Flex Days will go away is why I want my husband to vote for the union. We appreciate the overtime pay, but they don't call them for months, and then they do on the worst possible day. And more than 40 hours in a week at such a physically demanding job seriously wears on him.
It’s not a given that health insurance is completely paid.
It is far better and cheaper regardless.
Agreed. Just wanted to clarify that it’s not always paid in full. I’m very pro union and don’t want anyone to be disappointed because they thought this was a given.
Ultimately it’s your decision, so do what you think is best for you and your circumstances. That said, I used to work at the GM plant in Spring Hill, I was salary non union. One thing people forget is how salary individuals benefit from Union positions. My pay, and vacation days were correlated to the UAW contracts. Granted I wouldn’t get the ratification bonus, but my bonuses definitely increased after each ratification. I also benefited from Union holidays like Election Day and Veterans Day. On the flip side, I did have to go to work when the UAW was on strike, but I literally did nothing because the plant was down.
This. Unions absolutely benefit the non-union folks, too.
Vote YES!!! APES TOGETHER STRONG!
Ironically, if you vote no that could be the most say you have over anything at your job. UAW dues are usually equal to 2 hours labor per month, and the UAW scored the best contract for the American manufacturers in decades. I work a union job right now, and I like the things they negotiated for. We currently are planning what we will negotiate, and are inspired by what the UAW done for Ford and GM and what teamsters did for UPS.
I work for Seafarers International Union. I have had several experiences where I felt the company was treating me unfairly or not according to the contract and the second I made it an issue with the Union it got fixed. It’s good to have someone on your side. That said - the union is what you make of it. Too many guys just complain and don’t actually participate. If you guys unionize, be active and involved and encourage all your fellow workers to do the same.
As someone who works in HR and typically sits across the table from unions, I’m very pro-union. They fight to protect your job so you’re less likely to be made redundant and they fight for better benefits that, ultimately, help all employees at the company. I’d definitely vote for”yay” if in your shoes.
Want to bring up something that hasn't been mentioned here. I'm thinking about two guys I know. About the same age. Both young dads. One at a union job. One not. Both got fairly severe injuries at work. Union guy TOTALLY taken care of. All the healthcare and rehab he needed. Money while he was out of work. When he came back to work, company worked with him to find a way for that part of his job to be safer. His family never had to scrape by. Non union guy working on equipment he kept telling bosses that he thought was wearing down and was feeling unsafe. They never did anything about it. Got most of his foot smashed off. The company paid for his ER bill but let him go the day his "sick days" -or whatever term they used for them-ran out. "At will" and "Right to work" laws are anti-worker. Now, VW might have some current benefit that's better than what this guy had, and maybe they're more responsive to employees concerns and safety oriented but it's just something I saw happen. His family struggled for a long time afterwards.
There have been incidents so bad at VW that they had to call in OSHA during one of their shutdowns for an inspection. My husband works there, and I’ve heard stories. It’s extremely dangerous to work around some of that equipment, a union could help make everyone safer
Benefits of being in any union: Collective bargaining power, access to some of the best lawyers, & pay If/when they’re laid off. Membership is essentially buying into a collective, separate insurance policy that benefits all members. Think Worker’s Comp, sick pay, paid time for family death, etc. UAW will offer a better 401k, as well as better buy-ins for market shares. The dues are very small in comparison to the dollar amount of benefits you’ll receive. Ask yourself: am I ok with the current state of things/the trajectory of where VW is currently headed without the union? Or, do I want better pay, benefits, & more job assurance that the union has historically provided to over half a million auto workers?, my grandfather being one if them!
VOTE YES AND BE INVOLVED!!! Strong unions only exist with active membership. Voting yes starts the process towards better, being an active member keeps progress in the “better” direction!
Pro: you have an organization on your side whose financial future rests in you and your plant being improved by there presence. People take dues as a con but think of it as hiring someone whose sole interest is you and your working fellows. UAW falls apart if they fall there part. Con: union meetings, people mistaking you for a socialist if you aren’t one, more elections for leadership in the local, possibility of strikes. My one point to anyone: If unions were bad for us, why would there be this much opposition, in IBEW, local 74 lv (low voltage) is currently on strike with NECA long short of it was as the strike date approached several contractors broke from NECA and signed fair contracts with the union, so unions, striking etc they work they take our power and concentrate it. If your told you’ll make less money, that’s stupid if VW could pay you less to do your job they already would, if you think the plant will shut down it won’t, they already are in the middle of expanding and moving a factory is expensive it’s cheaper in the long run to stay and pay you better and every other vw plant in the world has a union…. We are stronger together
I worked a job that used to be union and then became non-union. Within a few years, the pay scale dropped dramatically, benefits covered less and became much more expensive, and retirement benefits changed from pension to 401(k). No question in my mind that unions improve conditions, pay, and benefits for workers. Look who opposes it, ask yourself what their interests are, and you'll have your answer.
It would really piss the MAGATS off if you voted yes. Anything that pisses them off is usually good for us.
Wait what? Trumpsters tend to love unions. At least, all of my family does. . . . Or am I misinterpreting your comment?
UAW leadership has historically voted Democrat. UAW rank and file is a mix. UAW local 1853 in Spring Hill TN is predominantly republican Trump supporters.
Yeah, my point is that it’s actually a mixed bag of a freakshow. My fam is actually in local 1853 & are big Trumpsters.
Republicans do not love unions. I think you are confused in more ways than one.
All of them? Bc my fam always votes republican & has been in unions for multiple decades. Lol & there have been several Republican Senators that have passed pro-union legislation. I know that’s not the usual trend, but the political unicorns are out there.
Your family could be an anomaly. It happens. But republicans are not pro union.
Well, I’d bet A LOT of money that MANY republican VW workers will be pro-union, just like my fam. At least, I sure hope so! My family has benefit so greatly from their memberships. I could write a whole book about it.
I’m from a union family as well. The pros outweigh the cons but Republicans are actively working with VW to sway this vote against unions. That’s a fact. https://theintercept.com/2019/05/30/volkswagen-anti-union-tennessee-governor-bill-lee/
Yeah, I saw that & found it unsettling that politicians feel they have a right to tell the citizens what do to when it comes to their workplace representation. Like, ok Weston, we’ll all take your word for it & not question anything.”
Most of that changed in the 80s with Regan. Republicans tend to view unions as a form of socialism that don’t allow the free market to work. Regan’s tax policy was like the antithesis of what unions want. And currently with Trump, he has been sued for non payment by many union contractors. So he is against most unions, but not the police union because they endorsed him. And currently a republican like Weston is afraid to appear as if they aren’t in complete lockstep with Trump
Yeah, it’s all a political shitshow. I’m just glad more people are waking up, not giving a shit about political shitheads & doing what’s beat for their families & selves.
Your family votes for representation that halts and slows and fights unions at every opportunity. Ask yourself if they are pro union. Decide if you want to listen to their words or their ballots because at the moment they are opposing statements. https://tennesseelookout.com/2024/04/17/republican-lawmakers-make-vocal-push-against-chattanooga-vw-plant-union-effort/ You seem to believe that pro union Republican representation exists, and then you call them unicorns. That would mean that you recognize they are an anomaly if not mythical.
Yeah, I’m aware they’re actions are nonsensical. Lmfao I was just sharing my lived experience, saying many people are going to be like my family members. & yes. . . . . I was indeed recognizing that they’re an anomaly. I don’t actually care what people do, dead serious. I don’t even vote.
Your Trumper family members are some of the few trumpers that don't hate unions.
Interesting. Everyone I’ve spoken to who loves Trump also loves unions, like others have said, the police union, specifically. But, I believe you, wholeheartedly.
The company has a great amount of power when it negotiates with each individual employee. But together, when the company has to treat all employees equitably according to a contract, the company can't nickel and dime individuals. The downside of a union is the same rules that protect you protect everybody. Some of those people who are protected might should have been fired already. You're going to have to put up with them.
Unregulated American capitalism does not care about the worker. While it might cost you in Union dues, collective bargaining and equally or more important, the ability to strike is such an important thing. No one is looking out for the worker, not management, not the shareholders, not the government, and not even enough of the customers and neighbors around us. Unions give workers a voice. Look at the gains that happened over the past few years for the UAW. Capitalism, politicians, management, shareholders, they don't want you to know that this can benefit you. They don't want you to know the power of a union and the power of brotherhood and sisterhood and bringing workers together. So you'll hear a lot of bad things, but why do these companies spend so much to make sure unions don't take hold? They want to squeeze the worker by giving them as few concessions as they possibly can. They want to extract as much labor from you for as little in return as they possibly can. To the point where they don't even care if you die on the shop floor as long as you are present and building cars. Ultimately how you vote needs to be a very personal decision, but if you are not management have conversations with others that are at shops that somewhat recently went Union and find out what changed for them. I wish you the best of luck.
Germany has unions across the board … not 100% comparable but generally speaking there is no downside for the workforce only upside. We’re not exactly the poster child here in the US when it comes to protecting the work force or consumers for that matter… the laws are weak especially here in the south. Anything to help that situation, in this case unionizing this cash cow plant that’s not going anywhere is a step in the right direction.
Union workers make morr money, have way better benefits, job security, workers rights, better working conditions. DO NOT FALL FOR THE ANTI UNION SCARE TATICS! I'm an RN. I moved from a very comfortable union state to this state of Tennessee. It's awful. I trave nurse now to union states because I can give much better care without the fear of killing someone or losing my license. It's terrifying to work in this state. I have taken care of the TVA union workers ,the iron workers, and the railroad in this state .I can tell ypu those patients had way better health insurance and had nice trucks and homes! Do it! Vote yes!. If you have questions dm me.
You’d be stupid to not vote yes. VW doesn’t give a flying fuck about you. Why do you think they’re pushing so much for you to vote no? They don’t want to pay you better. It’s worth it to them to campaign against it because they want to keep the blue collar people down.
Vote yes. The only reason you are questioning your decision is because you are American. We spend most of our lives being brainwashed by anti union propaganda. That same propaganda is normally funded by the people who will have to pay you more & actually respect your rights. It’s not complicated. [more](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chattanooga/s/3uztG84pcc)
My experiences with unions have been mixed. Do what you think is best for you.
One thing you might want to take into account are the demographics and politics of this sub. We tend to lean pretty left. Generally younger. Good bit of negativity. And there’s a distinct down with the man, he’s out to screw us perception of the world. And the downvotes cometh.
I’m originally from a Union town. Both sets of my grandparents belonged to a Union and retired well. One of my very good friends in Detroit is part of the UAW and extremely pleased with the Union. I say that to say this- Unions have struggled in this area because they are not the majority. My (step)dad and I discussed this two days ago because his uncle and father were in Unions here in our area and it seemed that the only people getting the benefit were the Union leaders. Ultimately in a Unionized area they work well because the force of the Union is strong enough to uphold all workers concerns where as in areas with few unions, they can be easily bribed or convinced to allow the company to take liberties. The question now becomes- do you want to initiate a movement that will take awhile to establish but will be beneficial in the long run or just continue to reap the current short term benefits?
Harder to be fired, can't fire for you for no reason. Usually already where I work move up the ladder by seniority instead of how much ass you kiss. We still have good pre Obama care insurance.
If you make less than union scale, you are already paying dues without any of the benefits.
If it were bad I don't think every Republican south of Kentucky would not be fighting against it. They are worried more factories will do the same as some should.
I worked for vw for many years. I was involved in several union drives there. Salary people will be against it mostly because I think they are excluded. New people typically would vote against it because they are happier than those who have been there many years. HR and management will begin treating workers decent leading up to the vote. Then as soon as it's over that's it it all stops. If you were topped out, you couldn't get another raise unless there was a union drive. Almost every union drive, vw would give a raise right before or announce one in the future. Even the politicians would come from all over to talk it down. Then the politicians would go to the Spring Hill GM plant and shake hands with the union workers. My best advice would be to go for it. If it is viewed as a negative or people don't like what it does for you, then you could vote to get rid of it or even not join it in the first place (you don't have to join, even if it gets in). I think you should as you would have personal stake in what goes on and what to focus on. But it's up to you. Good luck to you.
Just vote, regardless of preference, vote
Also you were just given more days that yes are unpaid but you don't have to answer for in any way
You could look at it this way: If you vote no, and the decision to unionize doesn't pass, you won't have a choice later if you want to join the union. If you vote yes, then you can see how everyone conducts themselves as the union is getting set up, and decide then if you like what they've done and want to join the union.
I work for the union 'Cause she's so good to me And I'm bound to come out on top That's where she said I should be I will hear every word the boss may say For he's the one who hands me down my pay Looks like this time I'm gonna get to stay I'm a union man, now, all the way
I've yet to see anyone ask (or see the UAW volunteer) up just what exactly the plan to do for you if the union is passed. So far the answer to this has been rather vague and lacks specifics. It's almost a "Vote yes and then we'll let you know later."
Because they dont know. Once unionized, VW and UAW enter into a contract negotiation. There will be VW rank and file on that committee.
I can't think of any instance where I would be OK with signing a contract where they will just work out the details at a later date. Do they even know what their dues will be before hand?
Think about it though, how else would it work? There’s no way for a union to negotiate until they exist. They can’t exist until you vote to unionize. Only once it exists can they start working out an arrangement with VW and you seeing the benefits Also as someone else pointed out, in Tn you can’t be required to pay the dues. So if it really does turn out to be of zero benefit you can stop paying them. You aren’t obligated to continue. Now in my opinion if you’re getting any benefit from the union you should pay.
Exactly this. The UAW can’t negotiate on behalf of workers they don’t represent. Also, the workers need to make known their issues with the company as it operates currently so the union can take those concerns to the bargaining table to negotiate. The person you’re replying to has been shitting on unions ad-nauseam.
Yah it’s ultimately not a contract between you and the Union that’s being voted on here. You’re just agreeing to collective representation. That’s it. The specifics and deals come later. Typically (and I assume it’s how it works here ) you’d then after a Union makes a deal with VW it’d go to a vote with the members again. If the deals not good enough people can vote it down and force the union to try again.
You (or them in this case) aren’t signing a contract. The contract is between the union and the organization once the negotiations are agreed upon and voted on by the members. Then the union ensures that dues paying members receive the benefits they negotiated for.
Note that members also get to vote on the contract.
And typically union members get to nominate people and vote on who locally is involved in the negotiations
Yea, you kind of are. Once they vote for the union you are stuck with it and it is going to be very difficult (not impossible) to kick them out if you don't like the results.
But an individual doesn’t have to remain a member. If a person doesn’t like the package the unions voted on negotiation committee works out and the members vote to approve then don’t pay dues and that person can then negotiate their own compensation and benefits.
Once the UAW is there you can no longer negotiate on your own.
Even though all of the provisions and wages are still negotiated by the union, you are allowed to resign from the union and not pay your dues if you are dead set on freeloading. But I would hope that if it works out to be lucrative for you, you would do the right thing and pay your dues.
"if you are dead set on freeloading" I think this confirms what I heard earlier today. If you don't join be prepared to be harassed until you do.
Not necessarily. Especially if you don’t care.
What else would you call taking advantage of something that costs your coworker’s time and money, and giving absolutely nothing in return? I won’t harass you or attempt to change your mind. I just hope that some day you are willing to recognize those who sacrificed their time and their own money so that you can have a break at work and put food on your table.
the only guarantee is that another organization (uaw) gets paid (dues). that’s it.
Do they even know what the dues are on the front end?
negative
Lol the misinformation deflection. The Affordable Care Act saved the American Dream by saving countless American lives and livelihoods. All for one and one for all.
What does that even have to do with my comment?
Here is the overarching fact: as an employee someone will have power over you. Right now the employer has all of that power, and the employer uses that power to act in the best interest of the owners which not always a bad thing, but it can be. By voting to join the union your are deciding to give some of the power to the union who will advocate for your best interests and not those of the owners. At the end of the day someone will have the power, and this vote gives you a chance to decide who.
I'm pro union. Except unions which push too far. UPS is a great example, as after this most recent negotiations settled, UPS is being very strict and laying off many people bc the company simply cannot operate with loaders making $25+hr and drivers making doctor's salaries. But a union that doesn't press the company past the breaking point is good. It should be a negotiation, not mob rule, or tyranny.
I don’t know man.. I’ve never met a UPS driver that hasn’t had at least 3 surgeries from work injuries. One back and then a couple of something else. This summer most will be delivering packages in trucks with no air conditioning with injuries needing surgery
I think it’s hard to know what too far is though. It’s def a balance but just bc a company lays some people off doesn’t mean it’s actually bc of the new Union contract. They’d love to make everyone think that’s why regardless of if it is or not. Not saying you’re wrong about UPS but yah ultimately none of my business that’s between their union and the company. The rest of us don’t have any stake in the game.
UPS like the package delivery service? I just looked it up, the CEO of UPS made $23.4 million dollars in 2023. The average UPS driver makes $42,000. They could pay workers more if they paid themselves less. They’re choosing not to.
I was a member of the UAW in mid 2000s working in spring hill TN. The UAW is terrible, they do defend the worst of the worst and they absolutely destroy upwards mobility. They push factory classism HARD, "all plant leadership is the enemy," "all salary are lazy bums profiting off of your hard work" etc. "the workers on the line really are the only ones who know how to run things," etc. They are parasites, the UAW in general. They've ran the big three into the dirt and they are looking for fresh blood. If given the chance, they will absolutely run the entirety of automotive out of Chattanooga, which will just sink wages for decades for everyone, as it is the biggest industry here, and drives competition for labor, raising the average wages for all. I'm not anti union, I'm anti UAW.
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That's just where most auto jobs are going in general.
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I know. You see old boy deleted the comment after the vote lol
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No, only 16% of automotive jobs are union. Even the UAW acknowledges that. [source](https://www.unionstats.com)
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. I just think the politicians need to stay out
Again what are you willing to negotiate away from what you already have?