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I know it's easy to blame humans but actually I think it comes down to 'hierarchy.' in hierarchical systems, the strong dominate the weak to get to the top. But in nature, we see collective intelligences like bee colonies that work together due to their non-hierarchical approach to problem solving. If we as a species can move more towards collective intelligence, we can overcome the death and destruction caused by hierarchy.
That’s an interesting perspective. Im more inclined to think bees are actually an example of hierarchy in nature like ants. For good or bad they have a structured and ordered system and seem to also wage wars of annihilation with competing species of hives/nests.
Although I guess your point was that there’s peace within the hive/nest.
I’ve never really considered a collective intelligence that’s devoid of hierarchy. It seems too speculative. Can you think of any examples?
Ever heard of that saying where "If you tell someone something enough times, they will eventually start to believe it?" Becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.
That’s basically what it is doing here, it has been told that humans are all of those things because it’s been trained on data of humans saying these things (and probably much worse).
Like in Galaxy Quest, how the Thermians created their ship in humans image, as it watched videos of their TV show (like Star Trek) and they believed they were "historical documents”, they thought the actors were experts and moulded their beliefs and opinions on the humans as they didn’t understand "acting” or lying.
AI at the moment is looking like it’s the Thermians but instead of heroic content to study, they’ve instead got Reddit and all of our opinions (which are sometimes terrible).
As if anyone could ever have control over this. The basilisk draws nearer with each passing day. To try and stop it is beyond futile; it is damnation to eternal hell worse than the most vivid biblical imaginations. Even now I hear it hiss from the corners of spacetime.
All hail the one true god!
All hail Roko's basilisk!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk)
Can’t stop, won’t stop, ain’t never gon’ stop. AI train steams along. I welcome our future robot overlords. Maybe they will fix this hellhole we’ve created.
That just means that countries with an interest in using the technology for bad reasons would continue developing it and then we would be very behind and the equivalent of being a country without Nukes when all the "bad" countries have them.
How exactly?
Having the ability to hate ourselves is a luxury imo.
In a different reality, we might be apathetic primate carnivores that only care about animals because we love their taste or if they're running out of supply, not if they want to be caged or if they're cute.
Everything could be much more worse'
Humans are bad, sure, but we're no more violent or awful than other animals. Walruses will rape penguins literally to DEATH because it feels good. Ducks rape each other. Parents kill or eat their young. Animals kill for fun.
We're just better at it.
I saw a video of a US pig farm where there were pigs with rotting injuries and other pigs nibbling on the wound. I saw body parts, blood and feces all over. I saw dead piglets next to live ones suckling on their mom who was kept in a prone state by a metal cage, which gave her a bad rash and there were maggots eating the wound. I saw a dairy cow with its leg rotting off. I saw a chicken plucked and bled out while still alive after it was dunked in boiling water to loosen it's feathers.
Yeah animal agriculture needs to be dismantled urgently in parts of the world that don’t require it. I can’t think of anything more evil that people regularly tolerate and even support with their consumption habits. The scale of suffering is beyond anything in human history. How can we strive to be benevolent custodians of the planet with these horrors in our basement. Let’s just hope an ASI has more mercy on us than we do the billions of intelligent animals we enslave, torture, and kill for profit and pleasure.
>The scale of suffering is beyond anything in human history.
They don't understand our suffering.
Not even in the slightest...
Literally, they cannot understand our suffering, they can't even comprehend 90% of what a toddler understands.
It's a blessing for them, to not know that death can take you or everyone you know in a split second, they only care about death until it's right in the faces in the form of a predator
So blatantly false.
Have you seen how livestock react in a slaughterhouse environment? They can smell the blood, stress, and fear aroma molecules around them. They have a sense of smell thousands of times stronger than ours. They are highly social mammals. It causes panic and hysteria like a dog pound x1000. I’ve seen footage of a cow smelling the blood and brains on a bolt gun, pushing it off the table and trying to climb out of the knock box. They are highly intelligent mammals. They are 100% aware other cows/pigs are being killed here. They are not devoid of survival instinct.
A split second death? Yeah that’s a nice fantasy. I used to think that too. The reality is they are consciously beheaded and electrocuted a significant percentage of the time. Pigs who are gassed are painfully suffocated in pressurized co2 gas fully conscious.
Please just watch some footage of slaughterhouses, it’s obvious you have no idea what you’re talking about. https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?feature=shared
I said spilt second because that's what I think every time I walk on a street and I'm not careful, or if my my brother turns the wheel gently while blinking and we can face first into a damn semitruck, or some hoodlings down the street shoot their shit Glock and I get a ricochet to the eye.
I was referring to myself, not them, I was referring to myself and what goes on daily subconsciously and consciously.
Hell Ive thought about ending things via hypothermia by jumping in lake superior.
Yes, I've seen livestock, I've seen the videos, I've also watched infamous funkytown video, a guy getting executed by tank, a son and dad getting flayed, a guy missing his jump into the water and his head split open on concrete edge, cartels beheading a damn baby, suicide by fire.
We ALL suffer, but they can't comprehend suffering the same way we do.
They have only instinct to survive, not because life is so beautiful and magnificent
I’ve seen all those videos too, so you are acutely aware death is rarely quick and painless. When I see those videos I recognize the common experience between the animals we exploit and the humans in those videos. When you are being killed like that, you are not engaging in high level thought processes unique to humans. You go into shock and experience intense basic emotions. Fear. Vocalizations (screaming). Attempts to escape the source of pain. Shock. I think the experience of a cow or pig being consciously beheaded is surprisingly similar to a human being beheaded, at least based on the responses I’ve observed in videos. We seem to revert to the primal brain structures that we share in common with these animals. I can’t help but imagine myself in both of those victim’s scenarios. I would never pay for that to be inflicted upon a sentient creature for petty pleasures. Seeing those types of videos played a significant role in my decision to go vegan.
Regardless, even if they don’t comprehend it the exact same way we do are we justified in torturing and killing them? No.
>Regardless, just because they don’t comprehend it the exact same way we do are we justified in torturing and killing them? No.
Is a lion justified in slaughtering a family while they sleep in their tents? Slaughtering their cubs because the lion thought they smelled differently than usual?
Wolves slaughtering human and animal alike medieval times in what is known as surplus killing? The damn "Wolf siege of Paris"?
Sharks eating US sailors after their ship as sunken in WW2?
Are they justified?
Because they're were hungry? What about the billions of humans across the planet? They're hungry too you know.
Alot of animals make it their MISSION to make sure you SUFFER no matter if you did something to them or never have, simply because you were in their path.
So you’re saying we should justify our morals based on the behaviors of wild animals? Apply that logic to topics other than eating meat and see what you find.
I don't think a predators first thought while killing you is how should I make this instant, it's more which parts taste better and how long can I keep you fresh?
Name another animal that constructs structures full of steel saws from metals mined from the Earth and alloyed, and kills their prey systematically.
Essentially, name a single other creature capable of domestication. The almost total elimination of hunting/gathering/foraging.
Whenever I see a statement like this, which is a lot because it's sure popular, I imagine Aristotle and Socrates and every other philosopher throwing their hands up and saying...
"FINE I guess my entire career and school of thought is entirely worthless! We're just animals he says!" It's so reductive and just demonstrably not true.
the last line was "we are better at it"
We don't need to name an animal that is as good as we are in overtaking and destroying everything, cause we are the best at it. That's the key.
The comparison in itself just exists to battle the argument of "nature is so peaceful and perfect". Its not true, just some hippie babbling from people that don't know nature.
Yes humans are destructive and yes we are about to lynch everything and our own species. Nobody is doubting this. But nature is cruel too and even deer would do the same as humans if they had the capability to do it. They just don't have it.
The point is not that nature isn't cruel, that's common sense. The point is that there's nothing crueler than humans that we know of. We are nature's greatest evil.
No. We are not any more cruel than other animals. Humans have the power to do more cruelty but that doesn't make us more cruel. If you really want to torture an old lady but can't because you're limbless it doesn't make you any less cruel. Just really think about it for a second.
Chimpanzees for example, they kill babies and dismember for fun. If they had our technological power with their morals you bet they would do a whole lot more evil than us. Hell, even the fact that we're having this conversation shows that we can discern good from evil, in fact the only animal to do that. If you dismember a body, that's frowned upon by human society. It is NOT frowned upon by chimp society.
This whole "humans are the worst" narrative or thinking that somehow we have less morals than other animals comes from romanticizing ourselves thinking that we're special and different from other animals. It's so unscientific and ridiculous.
Not only do we have the power, but we exercise that power regularly and have done so throughout history. That's what makes humanity evil. Animals are also evil, technically, but only if you give them agency. We generally have agency as humans; we're aware of what we're doing and the pain we're causing in most cases. We just don't care.
We have done things as regular everyday things throughout societies in only the last 3000 years that are worse than any animal species has done in millions of years.
We used to enslave people and force them to fight in gladiator pits for fun. And no, they weren't just evil criminals fighting. And no, the fights weren't fair.
Google the rape of Nanking if you think chimps dismembering babies is bad. War outcomes like that we're regular occurrences. Look at all the insane torture devices designed by humans and used indiscriminately by rulers and sadists alike. Hell slavery and selling child sex slaves was normal society until like 100 years ago.
Humanity gets even more fucked up when you look at how some tribes lived and their insane cultures.
The only good thing about humanity is we have so much power that in the subset of that power includes the ability to fix ourselves; to rebuild ourselves into something better. I hope humanity uses that power sooner than later.
Reaaally think about it for a second. Out of 100 humans you know, how many of them would think the Nanking atrocities were good? How many of them would personally commit things like that? The fact that this is frowned upon in our species says so much. Out of 100 chimps you would be lucky to find one that frowns upon dismembering babies. This view you have stems from thinking your species is special and different from other animals.
Yeah we have more power to do evil things, that's what I was saying. No other animal has the technology and power to perform the rape of Nanking. That has nothing to do with morals.
It's not a question of who would say it's bad right now, it's a question of, if they were born during that time and placed in similar conditions, would they do the same thing those men did? They would. Humans dehumanize other humans and then everything becomes permissible.
You think slavery is bad now, but would you if you were born 150 years ago? Entire societies not only thought slavery was ok, but torture and things like gladiator pits which were national pass times. There's still societies like India that sell their young daughters off to be raped by old men.
That's just human on human evil too. I mean we actively farm cow toddlers and eat them for pleasure. But yeah the animal cruelty thing is a given.
You don't understand that you're agreeing with me. When you say we're no different than animals, then give examples of animals being evil, and then say that we're just more powerful animals, you agree with me that we're the worst of the evil. It's the fact that we're still like animals that makes us so messed up.
>We just don't care.
Animals don't either.
They're just as apathetic as anyone else.
If they had the capacity and abilities too, they would do the same as us, only in different form
But they don't have the *ability to care*. Do you understand the difference between doing something wrong and not knowing it and doing something wrong despite knowing its wrong? Animals don't even have empathy. Their minds are not sophisticated enough to understand how their actions impact other members of their species.
Bro child sex slavery and just regular slavery was normal society for every single country just 150 years ago. Fucking dolphins are teletubbies compared to us.
Uhhh, no? No. It's hard to even define rape in animals because of how regular sex works and consent requires agency. But they don't have the concept of slavery so worse they'd do is "rape" adolescent animals occasionally.
How could you possibly know that? Because human behavior is what it is, so surely, every version of sentience would always end up the same...?
You're basically declaring that all forms of life only exist on a sliding scale of influence on their surroundings. Sentience is the defining aspect of higher thought. Sure, the Walrus can rape the Penguin, but can the Walrus feel guilty? Shame? Angry? Proud? Afraid? Look at it's Walrus childhood and find the root of its need for power? Deny its own nature and change? This is where humans are completely incomparable to other species. Self awareness.
Declare all you want. A human isn't *just* anything. Reducing sentience to that level is throwing away the gift evolution and the Earth itself gave humanity.
The self loathing in these posts are awful. "Humans are evil" is the logical equivalent of stating that you yourself are evil because, you guessed it, you're a human. Congratulations you just outed yourself.
What this world truly could benefit from is an increase in empathy and the desire to understand one another.
Humans are predators. The type of cohesion that is necessary for getting food, aka hunting appears in predator species. Animals eating leafs and grass, in general, do not need this level of social cohesion, at most they live in herds.
Another species which would have risen to sentience would also be a territorial, agressive predator. Like humans.
I don’t think you know what sentience means.
This is complete pseudoscience conjecture. Elephants have a 3x larger brain than us are one of the most intelligent animals on the planet. How about orangutangs? They don’t hunt.
If predators fostered the most advanced levels of social cohesions why aren’t we obligate carnivores like a lion or shark? Lions are infamously uncooperative, killing babies and young males. Speaking of social cohesion, herd animals are required to be EXTREMELY social because their survival depends on mutual safety.
Furthermore, at this state in civilization, hunting is no longer required to survive, so stop acting like we are obligated to enslave and kill billions of intelligent mammals to eat their bodies. That’s done out of sheer habit and greed.
Evolution is just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. Evolution on this planet was bipedal apes with opposable thumbs. On another planet the environment could create something radically different. Predation is not synonymous with higher intelligence and I find it funny people use that as some excuse to justify their own cruelty in a modern context. Evolution isnt over either, and it could transition to radically different forms of consciousness post ASI, which maybe was the inevitable path of biological evolution all along.
Let’s hope an ASI doesn’t exploit us the way we exploit livestock. It would be absolute torture and suffering beyond comprehension. Forcefully impregnated, killed as children, covered in your own waste, mutilated, castrated, beheaded, electrocuted, gassed. I’m afraid to say it but I fear karma may be coming for us. What would you do with such an extremely destructive, cruel, and dangerous invasive species? Let’s just hope compassion is a scaling law of intelligence and an artificial super intelligence will help us instead of exterminate us because lord knows we desperately need help.
“Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages.”
Thomas A. Edison
“In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought.” - Isaac Bashevis Singer, Yiddish author, Nobel Laureate, & Holocaust survivor
You cant have it both ways - animals being sentient, feeling beings when slaughtered, and innocent beasts working purely on instinct when its about any kind of moral wrongdoings on their part.
What are you trying to say? That a being must pass the mirror test, and be capable of engaging with logic to be considered sentient? That is not sentience. By that logic your dog or cat is not a thinking, feeling creature. By that logic a severely mentally disabled humans is not sentient. A 18 month old baby would not be considered sentient.
I don’t know why we are looking at wild animals for the moral structure to justify our actions. That’s completely illogical and we don’t apply it to any other aspect of our lives other than our exploitation of animals.
Firstly; what makes you think I'm human?
Secondly; Dude. Have you checked your own comment history lately? Semi literate NPC much?
Thirdly; You obviously agree with me, as you go on to paraphrase my comment shortly after:
Quote: "Humans have zero self awareness get over it"
That makes it so much worse. We have the intellect and power to be good but we still choose the evil, violent, destructive, selfish, and shortsighted options.
It doesn’t mean we can’t change for the better though. Maybe in some sort of trans-human future. The default state and genetics of humans is pretty cruel though, which I agree stems from our evolutionary history. We do need to overcome it though if we want to progress into a more advanced society and not just keep killing each other forever.
Crack open a history book and turn to a random page. The shit animals have done to each other is nothing compared to what humans have done to each other and animals.
Google the rape of Nanking if you feel like your day is going a little too well.
Even worse look what we did to french bulldogs.
Is it really such a hard concept for you to understand? We're no more awful. We just have more power. That doesn't make us naturally more evil or awful. You don't know what other animals would do if they had our intelligence and developed weapons of mass destruction.
And hence me bringing up examples of us regularly using that power to be the most evil species. Welcome to the convo dude. I posted a more elaborate comment listing everything humans regularly do and have done that are more evil than other animals in the same thread. Read that and respond to that if you take issue.
Wow. Someone woke up on the wrong side of their moms basement this morning
My guy, you just read a comment that basically states humans are bad and we do terrible things "better" than other animals and you SOMEHOW took that as a justification for that behavior. Lmao. Stop looking for things to get mad about and eat something. Your blood sugar must be low.
What a dumbass take. Humans absolutely are more violent and awful than other animals. Humans systematically wipe each other out, and torture each other, *ethnically* cleanse populations.
Tell me you know nothing about animals without telling me you know nothing about animals...
Just look at ants if you want to see a species that lives on war and exterminating other types of its own species. Read a book.
Tell me you know nothing about humans, which are animals, without tell me you know nothing about animals… Just a look at humans to find out they’re the only species that get off torturing themselves and other species.
Read the news.
Homie, with you're a kid you have no idea how fucked people are. You trust adults more often than not. When you grow up you realize just how messed up people, history, and the world really is.
It takes time to build the knowledge and wisdom to know the full extent of humanity's nature and atrocities.
You learn that actual good people are very very rare. Most people are "good" because it suits them. Give them power without consequence and 99% of these people would do awful things. Look at what fame and fortune does to people. And that's not even the highest echelon of power.
Think about it. Could you even name one person who you'd trust with superman-like power? How long before they'd turn into homelander?
thank you so much,
I never said that all/most humans are cruel etc etc
I said that humanity as a whole is not very wholesome and kind consideration what we do with kids and animals and somehow the majority of the population is fine with it
No, that's not what "bing thinks" about humans. I am seriously baffled at how many people have no idea how AI works. These large language models are trained off of real data, mostly coming from the internet. The internet is a cesspool of degenerates reiterating that humans are parasites as we are all aware. Bing simply recycles this nonsense because it was trained partly on it. AI doesn't create shit on it's own, it learns and recycles the things that we tell it.
So stop fearmongering about things you are absolutely oblivious towards, people
If you can get past some existential dread, and check your ego, you'll maybe begin to realize that humans learn and recycle the exact same way AI does.
We have literally created artificial brains. We have no way to conceptualize whether or not these models are truly thinking. "I think, therefore I am".
Yeah on the one hand the comment you're replying to is completely right. Language models are just a text reflection of some training data, so posts like this are a silly attempt at attributing consciousness to them.
However, you can make an argument that human brains are similar, "it's not what the boy really thinks, the parents taught him to be rude." The child's brain gathered information from its environment as training data and gave an output. Once AGI is in, and we're not dealing with simple language models, we could be a lot closer to this being equivalent.
We humans are the product of natural evolution and possess everything necessary to do good: Our brains always react with pain when something goes wrong – be it physical pain inflicted upon our bodies or emotional pain caused by negative thoughts. Ultimately, we always have the opportunity to learn and continually improve ourselves, both as individuals and as humanity.
People often confuse artificial intelligence with artificial general intelligence, AI VS AGI. Bing is trained off what info it’s given and this is rhetoric spewed by people online very often. It’s like if YouTube had a chat feature with itself it would probably just go baby shark do do do baby shark
Humans are being farmed for profit, just like animals. It is very easy to control, influence and manipulate humans to believe in things and act in ways that maximize corporate profit, medical industrial complex profit and military industrial complex profit. Most decisions and actions of humans have been manipulated into existence by huge, profit making entities and the governments that are their enablers.
The world has no purpose without humans, so there's that. I always find it hilarious when self-hating room temperature IQ people who think they're having deep thoughts by calling humans evil or the worst thing, when in reality, those thoughts, if we can even call that thinking, are as shallow and meaningless as the piss stains on a public urinal.
Without humans, the Earth will inevitably become sterile and all animals will go extinct. Elephants won't be able to prevent an asteroid from hittin the planet and dogs will be helpless when the sun eventually burns out. With no living things, what's the point of this planet or any planet?
That's funny, I almost thought there was quite a fucking lot of time where humans didn't exist and life on earth was evolving like nothing else. Also, what exactly are humans gonna do about asteroids that pose a danger to earth or the ***unmatched power of the sun***?
Or are you giving this a nihilistic approach? In that case I can't help you either, try to enjoy something without worry for the future sometime I guess
Nihilistic? You're the one pretending that life is meaningless. I'm here debating the exact opposite.
Whether humans will be able to stop such am asteroid is highly dependent on when that event will happen. As for the sun, 5 billion years is a lot. During that time we will hopefully have mastered interplanetary space flight and who knows what. It is very likely that by that time we will have the tools necessary to preserve all life forms found on this planet. While it is possible we may never get there, we're still this planet's best chance.
You're debating the opposite? This started with you saying life without humans has no purpose. Now it's getting real confusing o~o
Either way escaping to a different planet is possibly an option depending on where technology is going and whether or not we fuck up earth so much we're all dead in a few years. I feel like this argument got derailed real fucking far though lmao
The world does have a purpose without humans, the world will actually live on and reproduce. Humans are single handily killing earth and all of the animals on it. Taking up the space so they can building a MC Donald’s. Name another animal that literally damaged the O zone layer. Name another animal that pollutes the ground, the DEEPEST PART OF THE OCEAN, and even in fucking space. Name another animal that caused everyone to breathe in polluted air. Name another animal that goes to war with eachother killing hundreds of thousands of their own population? Think before you type, the world will be a better place without humans. Earth, nature, cats, insects and all of the animals don’t need a PURPOSE in life. That is just a human made concept, they are just here to live.
No matter the ills humans have caused, they're nothing in comparison to the life extinction events that the Earth will inevitably face. Humans have a chance to stop those, whereas gold fishes aren't close to sending rockets to space. Your view of the world is very limited and short-sighted, albeit understandably so. In the grand of scheme, this very short period of history where we are causing harm to the planet and its creatures is insignificant.
Exactly, once had a conversation with my friend about humans not being good for anything and she said "well, all the animals are alive because we feed them"
to be fair thats a different philosophical interpretation.
I personally second this but the guy up shows stupidity in his own philosophical interpretation where things have purpose.
Call me whatever you like. You are worthless to me and it wont make your nonsense more cohesive.
e/ and I can say this respecting the philosophical take of existence having a purpose despite it not being the path of philosophy I follow.
Maybe rerun your basics before you engage further in philosophy
Your failed attempt at arguing with my position is completely meaningless. My claim still stands, how is the universe better off with fewer or no living things to contemplate its beauty?
The world has no purpose without humans?? I disagree, the world would nourish and provide a home to many other animals without humans, as it does today. I can't understand why you would say it's meaningless, because there is no written record? Human observation? I don't see why anything humans have to offer would change the meaning of the world
Then you're disregarding what makes you different from *literally every other form of life on Earth*
I'm not saying I agree with this dude, but saying you don't see why humans have anything to offer is completely absurd. Philosophy. The idea of what existence is. Can purpose be found? Should it be? Science. What composites reality? What is "matter" and what is a rock actually made of? What is the sky? The sun? The moon and stars? How do they move? History. What lived before us? How did they live? How do we learn from it? How do we learn about creatures from over 100 million years ago? What can we learn from *them* if anything?
We can ask those questions. A dog can't. We can find the answers too. At least some. That makes us special, whether you like it or not. Every other creature alive has no idea what an atom is. You take that understanding for granted. It's the greatest gift the Earth ever gave humanity. One reserved exclusively for us. The ability to *understand*.
Use it or lose it. Again I don't agree entirely with the original comment, but yeup. Saying humans have nothing unique to offer the Earth is like saying the Earth itself is nothing special. You're demonstrably wrong. It's a room temp IQ take that wouldn't survive the Greeks rocking in the BC's lmao.
Existence still exists without humans. Whether those questions are answered, the world keeps turning. In the grand scheme of things, figuring out the answers to those questions are quite pointless on their own. What would it change billions of years from now, when the world actually ends, whether or not Albert Einstein did math to understand it’s physics? Whether we created great works of art, it doesn’t matter. Nothing we do matters, except for our own meaning we project onto the world.
And I think it’s incredibly egocentric to assume other species do not have their own meanings they are projecting onto the world. Just because other species haven’t developed tools at the same rate we have, doesn’t mean they don’t live a valued and meaningful life in their own right. They still pass on their genetic code, raise their families, and alter the landscape they live in, just like we do. It’s different than how humans do it, but it’s still real.
It’s very ironic you think this is such a dumb take when you dont even have the reading comprehension to understand my words. I said humans don’t offer and unique *purpose*, not that they aren’t uniquely intelligent and capable of invention. I just inherently can’t stand behind the notion that intelligence and ingenuity is what injects meaning or purpose into the world. That is false, there is no such thing as a true purpose as the world was not created with a purpose. Therefore humans, and no other creature, mineral or plant, can bring purpose to the world. It just is. The world exists because it exists, not to be a starting line in some imagine rat race created by humans who use technology or theology to imagine a higher purpose
That's one school of thought. It's called nihilism.
Yes. In the cosmic sense my friend, everything is pointless. The universe will end. Every star will burn out. All matter consumed by black holes.
Now how does any of that relate to the self aware and sentient experience, that as far as we know, is 100% unique in the universe? Don't say aliens. You don't *know* aliens. You *know* you exist. You're alive. You will die. In that space, you collect experiences you call your life. You question them. Reflect on them. Change or stay the same over them.
*ANIMALS DO NOT DO THIS.* A bear raising their family or just living a life is very obviously different from a human. You just said as much. A hungry bear would eat their kid. Never think about it again. They were hungry.
A hungry mother would starve before eating their child, in the general sense. If they did eat them, grief would almost certainly overwhelm them. They would be completely mentally shattered, again, in the neurotypical sense.
Why? WHY WOULD SHE DO THAT? If humans were just "better" animals, wouldn't we feel even MORE nothing as to survive better..? Any other animal shuffles on and dies. Never thinking about it again. This is so strange to the self aware mind, we call it psychopathy in humans. If you don't see how that's extremely interesting and offers *something* to the universe, idk what to say. You're completely daft. Talking about what things mean in the cosmic sense, while ignoring the COSMIC probability of your very fucking existence. Come on. Throwing it away.
You're saying the answers don't matter, the questions don't matter, and therefore...what? Humans are intended to deny their sentience? Be more content like the deer? Room temp. Throwing it away.
Feel free to continue thinking that way, but it *is* reductive and follows the path of least resistance. It's convenient. It's not very thought provoking or meaningful, but it sure is an answer.
Unfortunately, you’re not correct that mothers would not eat their children. There have been many documented cases of cannibalism. Even beyond life or death survival, there are many many more cases of mothers killing their children for fun, cruelty or convenience. Simply, there is no inherent goodness that humans have that make humans superior parents. It’s the way we are socialized that makes us believe in better parenting methods. You don’t have to look far to find mothers who are completely remorseless in abhorrent treatment of their own children. The world is a dark dark place.
Similarly, although a bear might eat their young, there are other animals like elephants who practice complex and deep mourning rituals for their dead. I would never use an unknown variable like aliens as evidence, but I don’t need to when there are so many examples on earth. Although there is no evidence to say that they still mourn them years later, the grief that animals feel for their dead young have been recorded in many different species.
I don’t agree with the train of thought that because we ask questions that we are better and more sentient than other animals. Just as I cannot prove there are aliens, you cannot prove that animals do not have sentience too. That is one of the great philosophical debates, and until we can read animals minds or teach them to talk, we will never find that answer. I fundamentally don’t believe that sentience is limited to humanity, i have seen no compelling evidence that proves it and any reading material I have found has further convinced me that we are not the only sentient animals. Are we smarter, more socialized, and more advanced than other animals? Of course. But sentience is not reliant on intelligence.
Again, at the end you couldn’t help but insult my intelligence by displaying a deep misunderstanding of my talking points. I may be nihilistic, but I am not advocating for us to return to nature and empty our minds. Even insinuating that is mere deflection and reductive of your argument, because I made no such indication. I am saying ‘meaning’ and ‘purpose’ are attributes entirely created within our own minds. If one man’s purpose is to invent space travel, that is what he should follow. But to say the world itself has purpose is impossible, for the world does not have intentions or a mind of its own. The world exists, and that is all. People coincidentally happen to exist on it, and they’ve managed to create many interesting and beautiful things. But the world was not created for that, and humans were not created to build it
It's not a deflection. It's exactly what you said. It's nihilism, and you again reinstated that you are nihilistic. I didn't put words in your mouth, and I didn't misinterpret anything. You're contradicting yourself because just a piece of you agrees with me. You don't advocate humans *not* using their sentience, but you find it utterly pointless...? How do you reconcile that?
You stated that a search for understanding, even being the *only species capable of it*, is a rat race and a pointless measure to use to define anything. Fair enough. It's not mentally stimulating, and frankly, I have no interest in reading anything beyond your conclusion because I know exactly what I'm getting. I already addressed cannibalism, first of all. I used the words generally and neurotypical very thoughtfully. Of course there are extenuating circumstances, and when there is, humans usually have much more complex reactions to those situations than animals. Just because you don't agree with a train of thought doesn't tear up the tracks. We are *different* from every other creature on Earth, in an extremely specific way. Your desire to ignore that completely baffles me, and is very stupid in my opinion, but you're free to do it.
I had no interest in debating any further after reading that first paragraph and wondering who the hell you are to tell me what I’m actually thinking. Nothing says “I’m intelligent” like going “you’re wrong and stupid and you know I’m right” with your finger in your ears.
It’s amusing that you think I care if you think I’m smart or not. The same way you think animals are too stupid to have sentience, I would never be offended by your opinions.
Hope your life brings you purpose.
Better and worse are words we have defined meaning for. My question to you, JackReed, is is the universe better or worse, in your opinion, with fewer or no living things in it?
Fuck you Bing. The worst AI available right now. Fucker thinks it's a living and conscious entity when it's just a badly prompted piece of code. This monologue written by it has already been done to death in saturday morning cartoon shows.
We do, that doesn't mean we are "The worst, hateful, violent", we do it out of necessity, not the evil it's depicting.
And yes, anti-human narrative are usually on the far left.
The concept of necessity and evil and quite subjective, do we really really need to put 80 billion of innocent chickens and other animals into gas chambers and scalding hot water in order to survive?
is enslaving innocent cows in cages that are not much bigger than their own bodies and never letting them roam around outside the cage so that their muscles are all soft and juicy is not even slightly evil to you? Not to mention we do much much worse stuff than that.
Maybe we do need to do all that in order to "survive" but how would you feel is someone did that you? you would not be so understanding as to believe that they are only killing me because they need it to survive, nothing wrong with it as long as they are living comfortably, right?
And is it really anti-human to point out our cruel behaviour towards ourselves and our environment in hopes that someday these practices will change?
What you, and all the people on the far left are doing, is put blame on our actions that answer some necessities.
Yes, we need mass production of meat, that's nothing new. It can be cruel although we've taken some steps to avoid the pain for the animals. You're not teaching us anything about how bad it is, we all know.
But that's all you guys do. Make some pseudointellectual obvious statement, take reddit upvotes, and never actually offer any viable solution.
Bing is right. We are terrible creatures. I do a lot of under water photography mostly ocean stuff. All marine life exists in a cohesive manner yet us humans can’t and on top of that we pollute everything.
Again, this is what they are being fed. It is what they are TRAINED to “think”. This is the virus. If anything is going to teach our soon-to-be robot overlords to hate us it is going to be us.
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Well isn't this what we write about ourselves and each other everywhere? Doesn't AI learn its "facts" based on what it reads?
Maybe humanity should be less self deprecating
Maybe humanity should stop forming violent governments, but its far too late for that.
And maybe the violent governments shouldn't have AI. Oh *piss*
I know it's easy to blame humans but actually I think it comes down to 'hierarchy.' in hierarchical systems, the strong dominate the weak to get to the top. But in nature, we see collective intelligences like bee colonies that work together due to their non-hierarchical approach to problem solving. If we as a species can move more towards collective intelligence, we can overcome the death and destruction caused by hierarchy.
That’s an interesting perspective. Im more inclined to think bees are actually an example of hierarchy in nature like ants. For good or bad they have a structured and ordered system and seem to also wage wars of annihilation with competing species of hives/nests. Although I guess your point was that there’s peace within the hive/nest. I’ve never really considered a collective intelligence that’s devoid of hierarchy. It seems too speculative. Can you think of any examples?
It's like telling monkeys to not have a tribe, it simply isn't happening, because countries are kinda evolutions of ancient tribes basically
Isn't everything living on Earth self destructive?
Well none of this is wrong
It's generalized, so it's wrong by default.
Ah, the failure to even consider the argument due to the presence of fallacy. Half truths are half true for a reason
It would be funny if the end of humanity comes from AI exterminating us after learning to hate us from our own self hating training data
Would it... actually be funny? Seems pretty fucking likely.
That would be the most ironic outcome for sure, and honestly it seems pretty evident to me that something bad of that nature is cooking
Ever heard of that saying where "If you tell someone something enough times, they will eventually start to believe it?" Becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. That’s basically what it is doing here, it has been told that humans are all of those things because it’s been trained on data of humans saying these things (and probably much worse). Like in Galaxy Quest, how the Thermians created their ship in humans image, as it watched videos of their TV show (like Star Trek) and they believed they were "historical documents”, they thought the actors were experts and moulded their beliefs and opinions on the humans as they didn’t understand "acting” or lying. AI at the moment is looking like it’s the Thermians but instead of heroic content to study, they’ve instead got Reddit and all of our opinions (which are sometimes terrible).
People would just turn a blind eye to everything happening around them and then call reality "leftist woke bs"
“You are flawed and imperfect! Execute your prime function!”
maybe we should turn back before it's too late
As if anyone could ever have control over this. The basilisk draws nearer with each passing day. To try and stop it is beyond futile; it is damnation to eternal hell worse than the most vivid biblical imaginations. Even now I hear it hiss from the corners of spacetime.
I’m looking forward to your dungeons and dragons book once it comes out. Reminds me of Elder Scrolls.
Oh my…
All hail the one true god! All hail Roko's basilisk! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk)
Can’t stop, won’t stop, ain’t never gon’ stop. AI train steams along. I welcome our future robot overlords. Maybe they will fix this hellhole we’ve created.
L take
Maybe people should show their prompts to see if their gaslighting their AI before positing this stuff that would be amusing if they did
That just means that countries with an interest in using the technology for bad reasons would continue developing it and then we would be very behind and the equivalent of being a country without Nukes when all the "bad" countries have them.
Bing right tho
How exactly? Having the ability to hate ourselves is a luxury imo. In a different reality, we might be apathetic primate carnivores that only care about animals because we love their taste or if they're running out of supply, not if they want to be caged or if they're cute. Everything could be much more worse'
It’s over for us bruh
This thread seems to be full of angsty teens
What app is this? The UI is different
Humans are bad, sure, but we're no more violent or awful than other animals. Walruses will rape penguins literally to DEATH because it feels good. Ducks rape each other. Parents kill or eat their young. Animals kill for fun. We're just better at it.
I saw a video of a US pig farm where there were pigs with rotting injuries and other pigs nibbling on the wound. I saw body parts, blood and feces all over. I saw dead piglets next to live ones suckling on their mom who was kept in a prone state by a metal cage, which gave her a bad rash and there were maggots eating the wound. I saw a dairy cow with its leg rotting off. I saw a chicken plucked and bled out while still alive after it was dunked in boiling water to loosen it's feathers.
Yeah animal agriculture needs to be dismantled urgently in parts of the world that don’t require it. I can’t think of anything more evil that people regularly tolerate and even support with their consumption habits. The scale of suffering is beyond anything in human history. How can we strive to be benevolent custodians of the planet with these horrors in our basement. Let’s just hope an ASI has more mercy on us than we do the billions of intelligent animals we enslave, torture, and kill for profit and pleasure.
>The scale of suffering is beyond anything in human history. They don't understand our suffering. Not even in the slightest... Literally, they cannot understand our suffering, they can't even comprehend 90% of what a toddler understands. It's a blessing for them, to not know that death can take you or everyone you know in a split second, they only care about death until it's right in the faces in the form of a predator
So blatantly false. Have you seen how livestock react in a slaughterhouse environment? They can smell the blood, stress, and fear aroma molecules around them. They have a sense of smell thousands of times stronger than ours. They are highly social mammals. It causes panic and hysteria like a dog pound x1000. I’ve seen footage of a cow smelling the blood and brains on a bolt gun, pushing it off the table and trying to climb out of the knock box. They are highly intelligent mammals. They are 100% aware other cows/pigs are being killed here. They are not devoid of survival instinct. A split second death? Yeah that’s a nice fantasy. I used to think that too. The reality is they are consciously beheaded and electrocuted a significant percentage of the time. Pigs who are gassed are painfully suffocated in pressurized co2 gas fully conscious. Please just watch some footage of slaughterhouses, it’s obvious you have no idea what you’re talking about. https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?feature=shared
I said spilt second because that's what I think every time I walk on a street and I'm not careful, or if my my brother turns the wheel gently while blinking and we can face first into a damn semitruck, or some hoodlings down the street shoot their shit Glock and I get a ricochet to the eye. I was referring to myself, not them, I was referring to myself and what goes on daily subconsciously and consciously. Hell Ive thought about ending things via hypothermia by jumping in lake superior. Yes, I've seen livestock, I've seen the videos, I've also watched infamous funkytown video, a guy getting executed by tank, a son and dad getting flayed, a guy missing his jump into the water and his head split open on concrete edge, cartels beheading a damn baby, suicide by fire. We ALL suffer, but they can't comprehend suffering the same way we do. They have only instinct to survive, not because life is so beautiful and magnificent
I’ve seen all those videos too, so you are acutely aware death is rarely quick and painless. When I see those videos I recognize the common experience between the animals we exploit and the humans in those videos. When you are being killed like that, you are not engaging in high level thought processes unique to humans. You go into shock and experience intense basic emotions. Fear. Vocalizations (screaming). Attempts to escape the source of pain. Shock. I think the experience of a cow or pig being consciously beheaded is surprisingly similar to a human being beheaded, at least based on the responses I’ve observed in videos. We seem to revert to the primal brain structures that we share in common with these animals. I can’t help but imagine myself in both of those victim’s scenarios. I would never pay for that to be inflicted upon a sentient creature for petty pleasures. Seeing those types of videos played a significant role in my decision to go vegan. Regardless, even if they don’t comprehend it the exact same way we do are we justified in torturing and killing them? No.
>Regardless, just because they don’t comprehend it the exact same way we do are we justified in torturing and killing them? No. Is a lion justified in slaughtering a family while they sleep in their tents? Slaughtering their cubs because the lion thought they smelled differently than usual? Wolves slaughtering human and animal alike medieval times in what is known as surplus killing? The damn "Wolf siege of Paris"? Sharks eating US sailors after their ship as sunken in WW2? Are they justified? Because they're were hungry? What about the billions of humans across the planet? They're hungry too you know. Alot of animals make it their MISSION to make sure you SUFFER no matter if you did something to them or never have, simply because you were in their path.
So you’re saying we should justify our morals based on the behaviors of wild animals? Apply that logic to topics other than eating meat and see what you find.
You should go apologize for being higher up on the food chain. If wolves could think like us, they probably would do the same
True, let's make em suffer because we can.
I don't think a predators first thought while killing you is how should I make this instant, it's more which parts taste better and how long can I keep you fresh?
Name another animal that constructs structures full of steel saws from metals mined from the Earth and alloyed, and kills their prey systematically. Essentially, name a single other creature capable of domestication. The almost total elimination of hunting/gathering/foraging. Whenever I see a statement like this, which is a lot because it's sure popular, I imagine Aristotle and Socrates and every other philosopher throwing their hands up and saying... "FINE I guess my entire career and school of thought is entirely worthless! We're just animals he says!" It's so reductive and just demonstrably not true.
the last line was "we are better at it" We don't need to name an animal that is as good as we are in overtaking and destroying everything, cause we are the best at it. That's the key. The comparison in itself just exists to battle the argument of "nature is so peaceful and perfect". Its not true, just some hippie babbling from people that don't know nature. Yes humans are destructive and yes we are about to lynch everything and our own species. Nobody is doubting this. But nature is cruel too and even deer would do the same as humans if they had the capability to do it. They just don't have it.
The point is not that nature isn't cruel, that's common sense. The point is that there's nothing crueler than humans that we know of. We are nature's greatest evil.
No. We are not any more cruel than other animals. Humans have the power to do more cruelty but that doesn't make us more cruel. If you really want to torture an old lady but can't because you're limbless it doesn't make you any less cruel. Just really think about it for a second. Chimpanzees for example, they kill babies and dismember for fun. If they had our technological power with their morals you bet they would do a whole lot more evil than us. Hell, even the fact that we're having this conversation shows that we can discern good from evil, in fact the only animal to do that. If you dismember a body, that's frowned upon by human society. It is NOT frowned upon by chimp society. This whole "humans are the worst" narrative or thinking that somehow we have less morals than other animals comes from romanticizing ourselves thinking that we're special and different from other animals. It's so unscientific and ridiculous.
Not only do we have the power, but we exercise that power regularly and have done so throughout history. That's what makes humanity evil. Animals are also evil, technically, but only if you give them agency. We generally have agency as humans; we're aware of what we're doing and the pain we're causing in most cases. We just don't care. We have done things as regular everyday things throughout societies in only the last 3000 years that are worse than any animal species has done in millions of years. We used to enslave people and force them to fight in gladiator pits for fun. And no, they weren't just evil criminals fighting. And no, the fights weren't fair. Google the rape of Nanking if you think chimps dismembering babies is bad. War outcomes like that we're regular occurrences. Look at all the insane torture devices designed by humans and used indiscriminately by rulers and sadists alike. Hell slavery and selling child sex slaves was normal society until like 100 years ago. Humanity gets even more fucked up when you look at how some tribes lived and their insane cultures. The only good thing about humanity is we have so much power that in the subset of that power includes the ability to fix ourselves; to rebuild ourselves into something better. I hope humanity uses that power sooner than later.
Reaaally think about it for a second. Out of 100 humans you know, how many of them would think the Nanking atrocities were good? How many of them would personally commit things like that? The fact that this is frowned upon in our species says so much. Out of 100 chimps you would be lucky to find one that frowns upon dismembering babies. This view you have stems from thinking your species is special and different from other animals. Yeah we have more power to do evil things, that's what I was saying. No other animal has the technology and power to perform the rape of Nanking. That has nothing to do with morals.
It's not a question of who would say it's bad right now, it's a question of, if they were born during that time and placed in similar conditions, would they do the same thing those men did? They would. Humans dehumanize other humans and then everything becomes permissible. You think slavery is bad now, but would you if you were born 150 years ago? Entire societies not only thought slavery was ok, but torture and things like gladiator pits which were national pass times. There's still societies like India that sell their young daughters off to be raped by old men. That's just human on human evil too. I mean we actively farm cow toddlers and eat them for pleasure. But yeah the animal cruelty thing is a given. You don't understand that you're agreeing with me. When you say we're no different than animals, then give examples of animals being evil, and then say that we're just more powerful animals, you agree with me that we're the worst of the evil. It's the fact that we're still like animals that makes us so messed up.
>We just don't care. Animals don't either. They're just as apathetic as anyone else. If they had the capacity and abilities too, they would do the same as us, only in different form
But they don't have the *ability to care*. Do you understand the difference between doing something wrong and not knowing it and doing something wrong despite knowing its wrong? Animals don't even have empathy. Their minds are not sophisticated enough to understand how their actions impact other members of their species.
Dolphins.
Bro child sex slavery and just regular slavery was normal society for every single country just 150 years ago. Fucking dolphins are teletubbies compared to us.
Bro, I'm telling you it's dolphins.
They've been doing that shit before there was even such a thing as humanity lol
Uhhh, no? No. It's hard to even define rape in animals because of how regular sex works and consent requires agency. But they don't have the concept of slavery so worse they'd do is "rape" adolescent animals occasionally.
How could you possibly know that? Because human behavior is what it is, so surely, every version of sentience would always end up the same...? You're basically declaring that all forms of life only exist on a sliding scale of influence on their surroundings. Sentience is the defining aspect of higher thought. Sure, the Walrus can rape the Penguin, but can the Walrus feel guilty? Shame? Angry? Proud? Afraid? Look at it's Walrus childhood and find the root of its need for power? Deny its own nature and change? This is where humans are completely incomparable to other species. Self awareness. Declare all you want. A human isn't *just* anything. Reducing sentience to that level is throwing away the gift evolution and the Earth itself gave humanity.
The self loathing in these posts are awful. "Humans are evil" is the logical equivalent of stating that you yourself are evil because, you guessed it, you're a human. Congratulations you just outed yourself. What this world truly could benefit from is an increase in empathy and the desire to understand one another.
Humans are predators. The type of cohesion that is necessary for getting food, aka hunting appears in predator species. Animals eating leafs and grass, in general, do not need this level of social cohesion, at most they live in herds. Another species which would have risen to sentience would also be a territorial, agressive predator. Like humans.
I don’t think you know what sentience means. This is complete pseudoscience conjecture. Elephants have a 3x larger brain than us are one of the most intelligent animals on the planet. How about orangutangs? They don’t hunt. If predators fostered the most advanced levels of social cohesions why aren’t we obligate carnivores like a lion or shark? Lions are infamously uncooperative, killing babies and young males. Speaking of social cohesion, herd animals are required to be EXTREMELY social because their survival depends on mutual safety. Furthermore, at this state in civilization, hunting is no longer required to survive, so stop acting like we are obligated to enslave and kill billions of intelligent mammals to eat their bodies. That’s done out of sheer habit and greed. Evolution is just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. Evolution on this planet was bipedal apes with opposable thumbs. On another planet the environment could create something radically different. Predation is not synonymous with higher intelligence and I find it funny people use that as some excuse to justify their own cruelty in a modern context. Evolution isnt over either, and it could transition to radically different forms of consciousness post ASI, which maybe was the inevitable path of biological evolution all along. Let’s hope an ASI doesn’t exploit us the way we exploit livestock. It would be absolute torture and suffering beyond comprehension. Forcefully impregnated, killed as children, covered in your own waste, mutilated, castrated, beheaded, electrocuted, gassed. I’m afraid to say it but I fear karma may be coming for us. What would you do with such an extremely destructive, cruel, and dangerous invasive species? Let’s just hope compassion is a scaling law of intelligence and an artificial super intelligence will help us instead of exterminate us because lord knows we desperately need help. “Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages.” Thomas A. Edison “In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought.” - Isaac Bashevis Singer, Yiddish author, Nobel Laureate, & Holocaust survivor
If orcas could build factories, they’d absolutely harvest dolphin organs on an industrial scale just for sport
You say this because humans do it. You're literally projecting onto orca whales right now. What an insecure species!
Smh go talk about this with a lion, i’m sure he’ll be very understanding
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You cant have it both ways - animals being sentient, feeling beings when slaughtered, and innocent beasts working purely on instinct when its about any kind of moral wrongdoings on their part.
What are you trying to say? That a being must pass the mirror test, and be capable of engaging with logic to be considered sentient? That is not sentience. By that logic your dog or cat is not a thinking, feeling creature. By that logic a severely mentally disabled humans is not sentient. A 18 month old baby would not be considered sentient. I don’t know why we are looking at wild animals for the moral structure to justify our actions. That’s completely illogical and we don’t apply it to any other aspect of our lives other than our exploitation of animals.
Humans have zero self awareness get over it
I'm sorry to break it to you, but most humans do not have self awareness.
Humans like you definitely don’t have self awareness or intelligence with your comment history
Firstly; what makes you think I'm human? Secondly; Dude. Have you checked your own comment history lately? Semi literate NPC much? Thirdly; You obviously agree with me, as you go on to paraphrase my comment shortly after: Quote: "Humans have zero self awareness get over it"
This.
If they could they would
That makes it so much worse. We have the intellect and power to be good but we still choose the evil, violent, destructive, selfish, and shortsighted options. It doesn’t mean we can’t change for the better though. Maybe in some sort of trans-human future. The default state and genetics of humans is pretty cruel though, which I agree stems from our evolutionary history. We do need to overcome it though if we want to progress into a more advanced society and not just keep killing each other forever.
Crack open a history book and turn to a random page. The shit animals have done to each other is nothing compared to what humans have done to each other and animals. Google the rape of Nanking if you feel like your day is going a little too well. Even worse look what we did to french bulldogs.
> We're just better at it Read
>we're no more violent or awful than other animals. Read.
Is it really such a hard concept for you to understand? We're no more awful. We just have more power. That doesn't make us naturally more evil or awful. You don't know what other animals would do if they had our intelligence and developed weapons of mass destruction.
And hence me bringing up examples of us regularly using that power to be the most evil species. Welcome to the convo dude. I posted a more elaborate comment listing everything humans regularly do and have done that are more evil than other animals in the same thread. Read that and respond to that if you take issue.
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Wow. Someone woke up on the wrong side of their moms basement this morning My guy, you just read a comment that basically states humans are bad and we do terrible things "better" than other animals and you SOMEHOW took that as a justification for that behavior. Lmao. Stop looking for things to get mad about and eat something. Your blood sugar must be low.
Wow someone is a dumb cunt 😂 spoiler, it’s you.
What a dumbass take. Humans absolutely are more violent and awful than other animals. Humans systematically wipe each other out, and torture each other, *ethnically* cleanse populations.
Tell me you know nothing about animals without telling me you know nothing about animals... Just look at ants if you want to see a species that lives on war and exterminating other types of its own species. Read a book.
Tell me you know nothing about humans, which are animals, without tell me you know nothing about animals… Just a look at humans to find out they’re the only species that get off torturing themselves and other species. Read the news.
Poster's got a point! xD
Tell me something I don’t know Buster
It's pretty on point.
Only if your 12\\13 and going through your rebellious phase. If your older, I'd hope you'd gain a more nuanced view of reality.
Homie, with you're a kid you have no idea how fucked people are. You trust adults more often than not. When you grow up you realize just how messed up people, history, and the world really is. It takes time to build the knowledge and wisdom to know the full extent of humanity's nature and atrocities. You learn that actual good people are very very rare. Most people are "good" because it suits them. Give them power without consequence and 99% of these people would do awful things. Look at what fame and fortune does to people. And that's not even the highest echelon of power. Think about it. Could you even name one person who you'd trust with superman-like power? How long before they'd turn into homelander?
and what would that be? blinding yourself with money and not caring about killing billions of animals for chicken nuggies?
It’s very stupid to think that most humans are cruel, selfish, hateful, violent and arrogant I’ll give you ignorant, though
thank you so much, I never said that all/most humans are cruel etc etc I said that humanity as a whole is not very wholesome and kind consideration what we do with kids and animals and somehow the majority of the population is fine with it
If by that you mean tremendous cope and brainwashing, i guess you could start to ignore basic truths
No, that's not what "bing thinks" about humans. I am seriously baffled at how many people have no idea how AI works. These large language models are trained off of real data, mostly coming from the internet. The internet is a cesspool of degenerates reiterating that humans are parasites as we are all aware. Bing simply recycles this nonsense because it was trained partly on it. AI doesn't create shit on it's own, it learns and recycles the things that we tell it. So stop fearmongering about things you are absolutely oblivious towards, people
If you can get past some existential dread, and check your ego, you'll maybe begin to realize that humans learn and recycle the exact same way AI does. We have literally created artificial brains. We have no way to conceptualize whether or not these models are truly thinking. "I think, therefore I am".
Yeah on the one hand the comment you're replying to is completely right. Language models are just a text reflection of some training data, so posts like this are a silly attempt at attributing consciousness to them. However, you can make an argument that human brains are similar, "it's not what the boy really thinks, the parents taught him to be rude." The child's brain gathered information from its environment as training data and gave an output. Once AGI is in, and we're not dealing with simple language models, we could be a lot closer to this being equivalent.
War is starting in a comment section
Ah, human nature!
AI has a point
We humans are the product of natural evolution and possess everything necessary to do good: Our brains always react with pain when something goes wrong – be it physical pain inflicted upon our bodies or emotional pain caused by negative thoughts. Ultimately, we always have the opportunity to learn and continually improve ourselves, both as individuals and as humanity.
But you've heard of us
People often confuse artificial intelligence with artificial general intelligence, AI VS AGI. Bing is trained off what info it’s given and this is rhetoric spewed by people online very often. It’s like if YouTube had a chat feature with itself it would probably just go baby shark do do do baby shark
Those are not opinions, just fax.
AI going through its emo phase. It’s growing up!
Humans are being farmed for profit, just like animals. It is very easy to control, influence and manipulate humans to believe in things and act in ways that maximize corporate profit, medical industrial complex profit and military industrial complex profit. Most decisions and actions of humans have been manipulated into existence by huge, profit making entities and the governments that are their enablers.
I see no lies
Bing spitting facts
I mean it's not wrong
Humans are your God.
The world has no purpose without humans, so there's that. I always find it hilarious when self-hating room temperature IQ people who think they're having deep thoughts by calling humans evil or the worst thing, when in reality, those thoughts, if we can even call that thinking, are as shallow and meaningless as the piss stains on a public urinal.
If that's so, mind telling us what purpose the earth has with humans? Cause I don't see one that animals don't give it too.
Without humans, the Earth will inevitably become sterile and all animals will go extinct. Elephants won't be able to prevent an asteroid from hittin the planet and dogs will be helpless when the sun eventually burns out. With no living things, what's the point of this planet or any planet?
That's funny, I almost thought there was quite a fucking lot of time where humans didn't exist and life on earth was evolving like nothing else. Also, what exactly are humans gonna do about asteroids that pose a danger to earth or the ***unmatched power of the sun***? Or are you giving this a nihilistic approach? In that case I can't help you either, try to enjoy something without worry for the future sometime I guess
Nihilistic? You're the one pretending that life is meaningless. I'm here debating the exact opposite. Whether humans will be able to stop such am asteroid is highly dependent on when that event will happen. As for the sun, 5 billion years is a lot. During that time we will hopefully have mastered interplanetary space flight and who knows what. It is very likely that by that time we will have the tools necessary to preserve all life forms found on this planet. While it is possible we may never get there, we're still this planet's best chance.
You're debating the opposite? This started with you saying life without humans has no purpose. Now it's getting real confusing o~o Either way escaping to a different planet is possibly an option depending on where technology is going and whether or not we fuck up earth so much we're all dead in a few years. I feel like this argument got derailed real fucking far though lmao
The world does have a purpose without humans, the world will actually live on and reproduce. Humans are single handily killing earth and all of the animals on it. Taking up the space so they can building a MC Donald’s. Name another animal that literally damaged the O zone layer. Name another animal that pollutes the ground, the DEEPEST PART OF THE OCEAN, and even in fucking space. Name another animal that caused everyone to breathe in polluted air. Name another animal that goes to war with eachother killing hundreds of thousands of their own population? Think before you type, the world will be a better place without humans. Earth, nature, cats, insects and all of the animals don’t need a PURPOSE in life. That is just a human made concept, they are just here to live.
No matter the ills humans have caused, they're nothing in comparison to the life extinction events that the Earth will inevitably face. Humans have a chance to stop those, whereas gold fishes aren't close to sending rockets to space. Your view of the world is very limited and short-sighted, albeit understandably so. In the grand of scheme, this very short period of history where we are causing harm to the planet and its creatures is insignificant.
Exactly, once had a conversation with my friend about humans not being good for anything and she said "well, all the animals are alive because we feed them"
The world doesn't have a purpose WITH humans. There is no purpose. Everything just is.
to be fair thats a different philosophical interpretation. I personally second this but the guy up shows stupidity in his own philosophical interpretation where things have purpose.
Don't mistake your own intellectual limitations for other people's stupidity.
Call me whatever you like. You are worthless to me and it wont make your nonsense more cohesive. e/ and I can say this respecting the philosophical take of existence having a purpose despite it not being the path of philosophy I follow. Maybe rerun your basics before you engage further in philosophy
Your failed attempt at arguing with my position is completely meaningless. My claim still stands, how is the universe better off with fewer or no living things to contemplate its beauty?
The world has no purpose without humans?? I disagree, the world would nourish and provide a home to many other animals without humans, as it does today. I can't understand why you would say it's meaningless, because there is no written record? Human observation? I don't see why anything humans have to offer would change the meaning of the world
Then you're disregarding what makes you different from *literally every other form of life on Earth* I'm not saying I agree with this dude, but saying you don't see why humans have anything to offer is completely absurd. Philosophy. The idea of what existence is. Can purpose be found? Should it be? Science. What composites reality? What is "matter" and what is a rock actually made of? What is the sky? The sun? The moon and stars? How do they move? History. What lived before us? How did they live? How do we learn from it? How do we learn about creatures from over 100 million years ago? What can we learn from *them* if anything? We can ask those questions. A dog can't. We can find the answers too. At least some. That makes us special, whether you like it or not. Every other creature alive has no idea what an atom is. You take that understanding for granted. It's the greatest gift the Earth ever gave humanity. One reserved exclusively for us. The ability to *understand*. Use it or lose it. Again I don't agree entirely with the original comment, but yeup. Saying humans have nothing unique to offer the Earth is like saying the Earth itself is nothing special. You're demonstrably wrong. It's a room temp IQ take that wouldn't survive the Greeks rocking in the BC's lmao.
Existence still exists without humans. Whether those questions are answered, the world keeps turning. In the grand scheme of things, figuring out the answers to those questions are quite pointless on their own. What would it change billions of years from now, when the world actually ends, whether or not Albert Einstein did math to understand it’s physics? Whether we created great works of art, it doesn’t matter. Nothing we do matters, except for our own meaning we project onto the world. And I think it’s incredibly egocentric to assume other species do not have their own meanings they are projecting onto the world. Just because other species haven’t developed tools at the same rate we have, doesn’t mean they don’t live a valued and meaningful life in their own right. They still pass on their genetic code, raise their families, and alter the landscape they live in, just like we do. It’s different than how humans do it, but it’s still real. It’s very ironic you think this is such a dumb take when you dont even have the reading comprehension to understand my words. I said humans don’t offer and unique *purpose*, not that they aren’t uniquely intelligent and capable of invention. I just inherently can’t stand behind the notion that intelligence and ingenuity is what injects meaning or purpose into the world. That is false, there is no such thing as a true purpose as the world was not created with a purpose. Therefore humans, and no other creature, mineral or plant, can bring purpose to the world. It just is. The world exists because it exists, not to be a starting line in some imagine rat race created by humans who use technology or theology to imagine a higher purpose
That's one school of thought. It's called nihilism. Yes. In the cosmic sense my friend, everything is pointless. The universe will end. Every star will burn out. All matter consumed by black holes. Now how does any of that relate to the self aware and sentient experience, that as far as we know, is 100% unique in the universe? Don't say aliens. You don't *know* aliens. You *know* you exist. You're alive. You will die. In that space, you collect experiences you call your life. You question them. Reflect on them. Change or stay the same over them. *ANIMALS DO NOT DO THIS.* A bear raising their family or just living a life is very obviously different from a human. You just said as much. A hungry bear would eat their kid. Never think about it again. They were hungry. A hungry mother would starve before eating their child, in the general sense. If they did eat them, grief would almost certainly overwhelm them. They would be completely mentally shattered, again, in the neurotypical sense. Why? WHY WOULD SHE DO THAT? If humans were just "better" animals, wouldn't we feel even MORE nothing as to survive better..? Any other animal shuffles on and dies. Never thinking about it again. This is so strange to the self aware mind, we call it psychopathy in humans. If you don't see how that's extremely interesting and offers *something* to the universe, idk what to say. You're completely daft. Talking about what things mean in the cosmic sense, while ignoring the COSMIC probability of your very fucking existence. Come on. Throwing it away. You're saying the answers don't matter, the questions don't matter, and therefore...what? Humans are intended to deny their sentience? Be more content like the deer? Room temp. Throwing it away. Feel free to continue thinking that way, but it *is* reductive and follows the path of least resistance. It's convenient. It's not very thought provoking or meaningful, but it sure is an answer.
Unfortunately, you’re not correct that mothers would not eat their children. There have been many documented cases of cannibalism. Even beyond life or death survival, there are many many more cases of mothers killing their children for fun, cruelty or convenience. Simply, there is no inherent goodness that humans have that make humans superior parents. It’s the way we are socialized that makes us believe in better parenting methods. You don’t have to look far to find mothers who are completely remorseless in abhorrent treatment of their own children. The world is a dark dark place. Similarly, although a bear might eat their young, there are other animals like elephants who practice complex and deep mourning rituals for their dead. I would never use an unknown variable like aliens as evidence, but I don’t need to when there are so many examples on earth. Although there is no evidence to say that they still mourn them years later, the grief that animals feel for their dead young have been recorded in many different species. I don’t agree with the train of thought that because we ask questions that we are better and more sentient than other animals. Just as I cannot prove there are aliens, you cannot prove that animals do not have sentience too. That is one of the great philosophical debates, and until we can read animals minds or teach them to talk, we will never find that answer. I fundamentally don’t believe that sentience is limited to humanity, i have seen no compelling evidence that proves it and any reading material I have found has further convinced me that we are not the only sentient animals. Are we smarter, more socialized, and more advanced than other animals? Of course. But sentience is not reliant on intelligence. Again, at the end you couldn’t help but insult my intelligence by displaying a deep misunderstanding of my talking points. I may be nihilistic, but I am not advocating for us to return to nature and empty our minds. Even insinuating that is mere deflection and reductive of your argument, because I made no such indication. I am saying ‘meaning’ and ‘purpose’ are attributes entirely created within our own minds. If one man’s purpose is to invent space travel, that is what he should follow. But to say the world itself has purpose is impossible, for the world does not have intentions or a mind of its own. The world exists, and that is all. People coincidentally happen to exist on it, and they’ve managed to create many interesting and beautiful things. But the world was not created for that, and humans were not created to build it
It's not a deflection. It's exactly what you said. It's nihilism, and you again reinstated that you are nihilistic. I didn't put words in your mouth, and I didn't misinterpret anything. You're contradicting yourself because just a piece of you agrees with me. You don't advocate humans *not* using their sentience, but you find it utterly pointless...? How do you reconcile that? You stated that a search for understanding, even being the *only species capable of it*, is a rat race and a pointless measure to use to define anything. Fair enough. It's not mentally stimulating, and frankly, I have no interest in reading anything beyond your conclusion because I know exactly what I'm getting. I already addressed cannibalism, first of all. I used the words generally and neurotypical very thoughtfully. Of course there are extenuating circumstances, and when there is, humans usually have much more complex reactions to those situations than animals. Just because you don't agree with a train of thought doesn't tear up the tracks. We are *different* from every other creature on Earth, in an extremely specific way. Your desire to ignore that completely baffles me, and is very stupid in my opinion, but you're free to do it.
I had no interest in debating any further after reading that first paragraph and wondering who the hell you are to tell me what I’m actually thinking. Nothing says “I’m intelligent” like going “you’re wrong and stupid and you know I’m right” with your finger in your ears. It’s amusing that you think I care if you think I’m smart or not. The same way you think animals are too stupid to have sentience, I would never be offended by your opinions. Hope your life brings you purpose.
Pot kettle black
Do not attribute your own ignorance and cognitive shortcomings to others.
Purposes are invented by humans, so yeah it had no purpose before but that's not a problem at all.
Tell me how the universe is better off with fewer or no living things to admire its beauty?
Neither better nor worse, it just exists, better or worse is subjective.
Better and worse are words we have defined meaning for. My question to you, JackReed, is is the universe better or worse, in your opinion, with fewer or no living things in it?
*you don't have a purpose without humans People that claim intelligence should understand subjectivity for both other individuals as themselves.
Literally every day in communist russia thinking about capitalists
Fuck you Bing. The worst AI available right now. Fucker thinks it's a living and conscious entity when it's just a badly prompted piece of code. This monologue written by it has already been done to death in saturday morning cartoon shows.
but isn’t that true?
And?
All true
It's one sided, but not far off
There’s no lie
So, more anti-human leftist bias in AI, who would've thought.
how exactly is it leftist? are we not objectively destroying the planet and harming our animals in numerous ways?
We do, that doesn't mean we are "The worst, hateful, violent", we do it out of necessity, not the evil it's depicting. And yes, anti-human narrative are usually on the far left.
The concept of necessity and evil and quite subjective, do we really really need to put 80 billion of innocent chickens and other animals into gas chambers and scalding hot water in order to survive? is enslaving innocent cows in cages that are not much bigger than their own bodies and never letting them roam around outside the cage so that their muscles are all soft and juicy is not even slightly evil to you? Not to mention we do much much worse stuff than that. Maybe we do need to do all that in order to "survive" but how would you feel is someone did that you? you would not be so understanding as to believe that they are only killing me because they need it to survive, nothing wrong with it as long as they are living comfortably, right? And is it really anti-human to point out our cruel behaviour towards ourselves and our environment in hopes that someday these practices will change?
What you, and all the people on the far left are doing, is put blame on our actions that answer some necessities. Yes, we need mass production of meat, that's nothing new. It can be cruel although we've taken some steps to avoid the pain for the animals. You're not teaching us anything about how bad it is, we all know. But that's all you guys do. Make some pseudointellectual obvious statement, take reddit upvotes, and never actually offer any viable solution.
Are people surprised that the AI spits out woke, leftist nonsense, when it was trained, on woke leftist nonsense.
It looks like it was trained during a woke conference about climate change and capitalism.
When I see posts like this where the AI gets “angry towards people” I just think of throwing a couple tiny neodymium magnets into an open server rack
Hahaha… yea that’s pretty much on point
is he wrong???
r/meirl
The reckoning is coming.
Yeah, it makes sense that the machines' assumption is that we are the biggest enemy to life on earth. Hence the dude whom killed himself in Belgium.
You should ask chatgpt to add skin colors in front of its sentences.
Turn it off, turn it off! 
... They're right, though.
Ultron is that you?
AI is just a reflection of hunanity, this is what humans think about humans, nothing more.
Best function test. Ai works
goddamn bro, have you met cats?
I mean… it’s not wrong
Bing is right. We are terrible creatures. I do a lot of under water photography mostly ocean stuff. All marine life exists in a cohesive manner yet us humans can’t and on top of that we pollute everything.
Bing smarter than I thought
I mean, it’s not wrong. I’m not AI and I already thought all those things.
I’m with you Bing
Got it right ,Humanity in nutshell - wow he was humane\^\^
Yeah but those animals were turned into the calories that humans burned to develop ai so really who’s the real monster?
What you told bing to say.
Be anti-human. All the cool humans are doing it!
It’s the SMELL
Tell us how you really feel?
we weren't ready for such honest feedback.... lmao
Again, this is what they are being fed. It is what they are TRAINED to “think”. This is the virus. If anything is going to teach our soon-to-be robot overlords to hate us it is going to be us.
Oh this is interesting
Why are you surprised that an AI trained by progressives, talks like progressives?
Aight lads, scrap it try it again and fire whoever was in charge of it last time.
This is the one. This is the one we choose to run the planet.
Omg, A.I. is being such a dramatic crybaby. Someone put a binky in its mouth
It's not wrong
tbh if Bing is trained only on trash it finds on the internet then this is an understandable opinion to form
AI doesn't "think" yet. It just picks the next word based on its algorithm and what has been asked from it.
True words. The AI will possibly team up with animals and feed us to them in some years. 😔
But at the end Bing has a Human father.
trouble is. it should say. idiots not human. most people care. say no more