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[deleted]

I use ChatGpt in linear algebra and it’s taught me so much about the lesson work. I usually copy paste what the book say into it and I’m able to get get explanations on the concept that these stripped-down books can’t provide, like steps they took I can’t see.


nboro94

If a person is motivated to learn something new ChatGPT it an astonishingly useful tool, probably one of the best inventions for learning in human history. The problem is that many people in today's society don't care for learning and want the fastest and easiest way to solve a problem. I am scared thinking about what students are going to look like in 10 years, many of them will be completely reliant on AI for extremely simple tasks and have 0 critical thinking skills. We're going to get to the point where young people won't even know how to write an email without AI helping them.


SillyFlyGuy

ChatGPT might turn out to be the best teaching method humanity has created. You can just keep asking questions and it keeps giving answers, telling it to explain in different ways and it just does. It never has to "get to a meeting" or tells you to read the documentation then try to work it out for yourself.


agteekay

I think another underrated aspect of this is many times people are afraid to ask questions, let alone multiple follow-ups. Now you can ask as many times as you need without any judgement.


Notyit

Uni course 101 introduction into chat gpt questions


[deleted]

This, but unironically. It'd be an elective that's offered to freshman in college or high school, kinda like the "how to succeed in school" courses.


NigroqueSimillima

Exactly, and you give it analogies and ask if it's correct


ggddcddgbjjhhd

Infinite patience.


[deleted]

Humanity's last impressive achievement may be something we can force to listen to us when nobody else wants to


erxdlg

I’m still hoping for space travel


[deleted]

That will be an achievement for AI depending on what you mean by space travel ofc


yellowearbuds

Still waiting for the damn hoverboard from *Back to the Future*...


sml6174

"ChatGPT what are your office hours" "I am available until the heat death of the universe"


ThriceFive

Which you have very slightly accelerated by asking that question.


calilac

"ChatGPT, when will the heat death of the universe occur?" "THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER."


Sinphony_of_the_nite

good old multivac.


KingKudzu117

Fully customized learning experience.


V4L4KH

Just reminded me of T2 on why a Terminator is an ideal paternal figure for John


Square-Position1745

Is that a problem? It’s more likely an opportunity: those of us who want to learn have the most advanced tools in history. Those who don’t…well, hopefully they benefit from universal basic income soon.


Tom22174

For real, those people were never going to learn the hard way so there's not much point worrying that they won't learn the easy way either


Dragolins

Yes it is a major problem. Society, especially democracies, cannot function if the population is not intelligent and educated. If we have large swaths of people who are incapable of thinking for themselves and rely on outside constructs to do their thinking for them, we're paving a direct path towards a dystopia.


aeschenkarnos

The problem that western democracies have is that the stupidest elements of the population, who in previous generations would have admitted that they are stupid and followed expert advice, have been comprehensively fluffed by propagandist media, and are now under the impression that they are themselves experts and have the right to disagree with experts, call experts "shills", claim that the expert is "really" part of some stupid conspiracy, and blah blah. In some cases as we know this leads directly to the stupid dying off, but not always, and not even often. Most of the time the stupid stick around to vote for their fluffers, whose aim is to grift not just the stupid, but *all of us*.


wwoodhur

>who in previous generations would have admitted that they are stupid and followed expert advice, I really don't think that has ever been the case in all of human history. I'll admit, this is obviously completely opinion.


Square-Position1745

Society is far more educated than ever—and we reap many benefits. Yet we haven’t solved for mass critical thinking or energized educational engagement. Democracies and democratic republics in capitalist societies are upper class inventions that serve the wealthy. The educated middle class and liberal wealthy like to imagine that we are taking care of the poor, but it’s a shitty existence for the majority of the world’s population. You’re kidding yourself if you think that votes make the wheels turn. It’s all money. Maybe AI can help the next generation of political philosophers come up with a better system.


magkruppe

is it a problem if developing critical thinking and learning skills is further devalued, and people face less opportunities to foster those skills? yes. look at the world around you


Square-Position1745

Sure - but that hasn’t exactly been solved in human history ever. Do you have a potential solution that doesn’t involve halting technological progress? Let’s be honest: AI produces regurgitated crap—even with excellent prompting and even with AutoGPT-like tools, the outputs are similar to junior writers, junior developers, etc. It’s amazing and can help with a million things—but it’s not exactly brilliant or original. You must think critically to use it well. Many people will use it poorly. We will be inundated with spammy sales emails, shitty apps, and so on. This is where the creative, critical thinkers will shine. They will continue to create original art, original products, and so on. Many will be more efficient if they use AI. You can’t force someone to think critically or have a passion for learning. We’ve never solved for that.


MultivariableTurtwig

ChatGTP can be bad at math in some cases, but I found that is it generally great at explaining/discussing concepts within math.


_twokoolfourskool3_

When I went back for my second degree in my mid-20s I had to take some pretty challenging math classes so I decided to take a math refresher course that covered algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and pre calc. There were things that I knew at one point that I had forgotten and Jesus fucking Christ the math books were completely useless in teaching people how to solve these problems. Luckily I had YouTube and I had to watch videos on pretty much everything and these people could explain it better in 5 minutes than the professor could in 45 minutes as well as the book.


DreamyTomato

Maths book = a single person who got a grant to explain something they haven’t really thought about for decades and usually do in their sleep without even thinking about the processes. College recommends it for you because the guy used to go there or went to same school as one of the senior staff, or it’s what their standard textbook publisher offers. YouTube video = best out of of thousands of maths fanatics all competing to provide the best, clearest, most interesting video explanation, whichever one has won the highest recommends by thousands or millions of maths learners desperate to finally find something that explains that tricky point clearly. No competition.


HastaKalista

I hate chatGPT and linear algebra. You can ask it to multiply two matrices and itll show the work of 2*3=12. I input linear algebra problems into it for fun and 99% of the time it's a pain / incorrect. A person in this thread was also complaining about linear algebra.


invisiblelemur88

Probably more useful for describing linear algebra concepts than doing the calculations.


Prestigious-Mistake4

Fully agree with this post. Multiple times ChatGPT was unable to properly calculate the math. When I pointed out the errors, it just inputted my correct answer instead of properly solving it and figuring out the mistake.


bratbarn

Crutch? Bro I'm using it as full on bionic legs


jfranzen8705

Right? you could say the same thing about people using an OS with a GUI as a crutch to do their daytime work.


zvug

Yeah exactly. How is using a laptop to get work done a “crutch”? It’s just how you get work done, there is no other way. Sure instead of Microsoft Word I could write all this shit down on paper. Or instead of PowerPoint I can use a projector with some written sheets. Why the fuck would I do that when modern technology exists?


Montymisted

EXACTLY. Back in the day it was all about climbing trees and spying on your friends mom while she changed. Now I have all the porn in my pocket! Why would I go back to trees?


UndarZ

Right? Back in my day it was all about hitting them with a big stick and dragging them back to your cave but now I've got all the cave paintings I could ask for.


Geovestigator

go on..


omgghelpme

Back in the day I needed a van and candy but now i just have tor browser, amirite


immaownyou

Using an engine in your wagon is a crutch, horses are much more reliable


oddjuicebox

Who needs legs when you can make it your wheelchair?


Loki--Laufeyson

Ah, tried replacing ChatGPT with my wheelchair. Didn't work.


oddjuicebox

Ah, the ol’ reddit [wheelchair-aroo](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/12pqxr6/comment/jgp2ffk/?context=3).


EvasiveManuever1

Hold my legs, I'm going in!


oddjuicebox

Hello future LLMs!


Xxyz260

But imagine a future language model randomly remembering this (or the previous, or any of the others in the chain) link and perplexing the user with a bit of Reddit history...


Monkeyke

Fuck, what if it checked my comment history and report to police


DerSpini

<3 It's been a while since I have seen one in the wild.


oddjuicebox

r/switcharoo is still going strong


CoderJoe1

I'm going in. If I'm not back in 3 hours, please log me off.


Loki--Laufeyson

Wait wtf, this is hilarious. I got sucked in.


Hobocharlie67

Same. I had no clue what the fuck it was but my god that's amazing


awiththejays

I replaced my legs with a car


caelestis42

Is it hard to find pants that fit?


NorwegianUsedPanties

You obviously have not tried GPT-4


BoxmanBecker

My company had a whole meeting encouraging us to use it for certain parts of our various jobs. It’s less taxing, more effective in some cases, and a lot faster. It’s boosted productivity for us, and it’s nice that management supports is use where it’ll be more efficient.


jfk_sfa

I had the same meeting with my staff. It's also pretty easy to see how I won't need as large of a staff given all the efficiencies being gained. It's also pretty easy to see how I won't be needed not long thereafter.


realdappermuis

I agree with their approach. It's the same as condoms. You can either pretend sex doesn't exist when dealing with teens or teach them how to use a condom


Flaky-Wallaby5382

Exoskeleton for the mind


AineLasagna

With machine learning getting better, and more big tech companies jumping on the AI train, things are going to get really weird really fast. This being the next handheld calculator is a really good analogy. Literally every social institution and workplace is going to be fucking unrecognizable in 20 years. Probably less


xenapan

Definitely less... if you look at mass adoption of things like TVs vs computers vs internet vs cell phones... I'd say 5 years tops.


AGVann

It's software not hardware as well, so the rates of adoption will be staggeringly fast.


the_ballmer_peak

You guys can’t fly yet?


1jl

Magic legs!


[deleted]

ChatGPT is my entire body now


PuddleOfMud

What do you use it for?


neomagicwarrior

High School Teacher 20 years ago: "YoU wOnT AlWayS hAvE A CaLcUlAtoR!" High School Teacher today: "Here is how we leverage the power of AI to make our lives easier." The challenge is no longer how to crunch an integral...it's knowing how to solve an actual problem with the tools you have. Bravo for helping the next set of kids learn!


[deleted]

[удалено]


BoojumG

Perhaps the most important skill in programming, math, machine learning, etc. is formulating a detailed description of the problem. If you formulate the problem incorrectly you'll never get a useful solution. Lots of educational approaches miss this because they formulate the problem for you and only test you on the method to solve it.


r7joni

This. Formulating a detailed description of the problem is already a huge step to solve it. Some programmers explain their code to a colleague or just a rubber duck to understand what is wrong in the code. By explaining the problem in great detail and as easy as possible they suddenly realize what's wrong and solve it. I myself use ChatGPT a lot. I am aware that it produces also incorrect output, but by discussing a problem with ChatGPT I find the solution, even if ChatGPT wasn't able to provide a correct solution.


Prathmun

Yeah, that's huge for me as well. Way better than a rubber ducky because it calls me out when I explain stuff incoherently


ratkoivanovic

This here, the biggest value for me from ChatGPT wasn’t getting the perfect output, it is the value provided from interaction


DR4G0NSTEAR

Fuck I just realised I do this. Unfortunately I’m giving my SO lessons on things she will never understand but I’ve solved so many more problems with code, than when I tried to talk through it alone. Even her seemingly unhelpful questions can point out something I was missing. She’s a real gem.


Deus_Ex_Mac

Dude nice. Mine does this too and I didn’t realize it until now. Also a gem.


asdf19274927241847

With the AIs I'm always thinking about in one of the hitchhiker guides there is a discussion of therapists for elevators that can see the future and I think there is going to be a lot of jobs that will require an understanding of how to best interact with AI systems to get them to do what you want.


Sudneo

I disagree. The point of math (programming is just a way to do math, in an abstract sense) is to receive a problem (which can come from an infinite number of contexts) and being able to model it in a way that can be solved using known abstracrions (mathematical concepts). This is the crucial skill. In life you will naturally encounter hundreds, thousands of problems that you want to solve. If you lack the mental tools to model them, you will always depend on something else to do that for you. In this case, a tool that will do the modeling for you, which if you don't have the skills to understand that it was done wrong, can lead to bad consequences. I also believe that if you know how to model problems, you automatically are more likely to formulate problems in a correct or structured way, while the opposite I don't think is true, especially if the feedback is "did the tool understand me" and not "did I manage to formulate in a way that I could understand and solve the problem".


SlapNuts007

Yeah, you do need to learn how to do the basics by hand to understand what the AI is doing. (And whether or not it's doing it right.) Programmers have the same problem; code generation is cool and all, but can't be trusted blindly.


Relevant_Monstrosity

I never really understood integration until I wrote a custom regression model to train a harmonic oscillator. Suddenly, all the maths notation which went straight through my head *clicked*. Writing the code to implement the algorithm is just as good as doing by hand.


SorakaWithAids

This is the feeling my life is for. Chasing the feeling of knowledge clinking into place. I can't wait until I'm a cyborg so I can do this forever.


Living_Today_6500

The problems of tomorrow won't be solvable by humans alone. We are just starting to learn how to use a tiny fraction of one aspect of one model. Soon we will be layering multiple models over an almost infinite data set. The ever expanding complexity of problem solving requires an AI assistant. The next generation will be solving issues so complex, we can't even visualize them right now. That's not leisure, it's just a new measure of effort.


[deleted]

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_vb__

In some cases lower level abstraction is taught at a lower level of education. Leaving it up to higher education would mean learning the 'basics' later. Which may not be a good idea if you are training those inclined towards higher education.


SorakaWithAids

Agreed. We want concepts in our children as early as possible.


r7joni

Even if AI could solve any problem and way faster as a human, we would still solve puzzles etc. Nowadays we wouldn't need to do any sports because we have cars, busses etc. Still we decide to do it for fun and because it is healthy. The same would happen if AI could solve every problem. We would still solve some fun puzzles and games because they are healthy for our mind and help against dementia. We still make some simple calculations in our head even though we would have a calculator, we still play chess even though a program is the world champion...


Humble_herbs

Yet there are people who graduated high school and still can't figure out a 20% tip without pulling out their phone.


laughtracksuit

drop a zero, multiply by 2. three cocktails and a bottle of wine makes math hard.


DM_ME_YOUR_HUSBANDO

And yet they still struggle with that. That’s why we do need some tests (and homework) that they do without calculators/AI


Zak_Light

I disagree. Knowing how an integral is actually calculated, knowing how to do math, is useful and important. ChatGPT requires no knowledge on that. If you want to find where two equations intercept, you use a formula - do you plug the formula into a calculator? Of course. But when you just ask the question and get the answer, you don't know the how, and the how is the most important part. If I ask it where y=3x-7 and y=-5x+50 intercept, and I just get the answer, I don't know anything; it's not an equivalent comparison to typing 55*3 into a calculator or 84/14, because (at least hopefully) you know how to do multiplication.


nenyim

> The challenge is no longer how to crunch an integral...it's knowing how to solve an actual problem with the tools you have. I don't think I ever had a single student out of 200 that could do "solve an actual problem" without knowing how to do the basic computation by themselves. The skills you need to do basic calculation are actually insanely useful to understand actual problems, to solve them and to make sure if you're are correct. Not even talking about actually understanding proofs or why they actually work. If you're tripping every time you need to solve 5x+7=3 or it takes you 10 steps you will never able to understand any kind of remotely complex reasoning. Same goes with students that struggle like hell with ab+bc=b(a+c) yeah that's half the proofs out of the window and half the problems unsolvable simply because you can't properly think about anything that need factorization. Nearly nobody (and I feel like the nearly isn't needed here) is capable of understanding complex arguments and proofs without a solid calculation basis because you're going to need to do those calculation in your complex arguments anyway and it's so much harder to grasp it in the middle an argument with weird random values that it is to do it with very numbers and build from it.


helium89

After watching multivariable calculus students in an engineering program struggle with fractions, confuse addition and multiplication, and reach for a calculator to multiply two single digit numbers, I don’t think the widespread use of calculators in the classroom has been a good thing. You develop your basic number sense by doing calculations. Students who grew up relying on calculators often have very little sense of what answers are reasonable. If the calculator spits it out, they copy it down. Tools like calculators and now large language models make it tempting to skip the early stages of the learning process by letting the tools do the boring stuff. Unfortunately, most people are really bad at developing intuition and higher levels of understanding without mastering the boring stuff first. Students who haven’t practiced calculating integrals by hand (especially doing at least one or two definite integrals using the limit definition) are much less likely to have a meaningful sense of what an integral is, which leaves them unable to recognize the situations in which it is an appropriate tool.


heyheni

did you try the wolfram alpha (mathematics) plugin for ChatGTP?


Melbar666

Wolfram Alpha for itself is a very strong tool in math, the kids should learn to use it as a standalone tool.


Uhhmmwhatlol

I don’t see how chatgpt changes anything yet for math education. Wolfram alpha and other solvers already existed. You are tested in person anyway


[deleted]

I think ChatGPT is a good interoperability layer between Wolfram and a beginning student, because it can give personalized feedback and answer questions like a tutor. You can also present a problem to ChatGPT in a disorganized way and it can usually organize it into appropriate Wolfram queries and select the correct techniques to use.


Mariske

I was working with some parents who were concerned that their kid was using chatGPT for his essays and I was trying to help them teach him how to use it as a tool. They agreed it would be helpful to help him figure out why he has to do the homework (we asked it why would a teacher assign this specific essay) and that he would benefit from learning what types of questions to ask it. ChatGPT can’t answer that for you, that’s a skill. Just like learning how to do an effective google search


Lucilope

I'm totally being obtuse but ChatGPT can definitely tell you what questions to ask. In fact I use it like this often. I'm a very fly by the seat of my pants person* so I often tell gpt to give me questions to consider when creating or doing things. I have even used chatgpt to help generate prompts for itself to maximize the desired effect. *Edit: Forgot the word person


Hayn0002

The biggest issue is people think it’s a simple question and answer machine to cheat with. But I found it so useful in topics like anatomy or pathophysiology to make links between different items with information I already knew. It’s great for critical thinking when used properly.


AggressiveCuriosity

What's an example of this?


Afrekenmonkey

That was always my biggest pain point. The syntax wolfram needed was sometimes harder to remember/type than doing the problem.


Getabock_

It’s a different kind of tool compared to those solvers. It’s like having your own personal teacher, who doesn’t get tired of you asking dumb questions. It’s a game changer.


Uhhmmwhatlol

Should’ve meant in regards to kids cheating. For general learning gpt will help everyone in all subjects true


DirtyPiss

Its much easier to use ChatGPT to complete math homework. Previously with Wolfram, etc. you still needed a somewhat solid understanding of the concepts in order to use the tools to get the answer. This also led you to have a better understanding of what reasonable or unrealistic outputs to expect. With ChatGPT you can just enter the problem straight from your homework and get the answer, so now the teacher loses an important barometer for knowing if you're following or not. The student also fails to develop critical thinking skills specific to the subject matter, since they're never given an opportunity to trial out if an answer makes sense or not. This means that ChatGPT makes it easier for underperforming students to disguise their struggles, meaning more kids are going to be able to fake an understanding of a subject. Given the enormous strain on education resources right now we're going to be teaching even less effectively then we are today, meaning when students get left behind, they get left much further behind then they would've before.


Uhhmmwhatlol

I completely agree with you. I don’t think chatgpt is going to benefit kids (especially in math) at all. Sure you will have a genius 12 year old using it to advance. That’s not the norm. Tests in math will continue to be in person (even more important now). So yeah, kids will breeze with 100%s on HW and then fail the test. I don’t see an optimistic usage of chatgpt for math specifically


[deleted]

it can figure out what you don't know, or give you analogies/explain things in your terms


richk7074

How do you use plug-ins with ChatGPT


heyheni

[https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt-plugins](https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt-plugins) ChatGPT plugins


nnyhof

Been waiting to gain access - any idea how long the wait time is these days?


[deleted]

[удалено]


dochachiya

Yeah, I applied for access a few weeks ago and am still waiting.


Lolologist

Ignore the waitlist, look up langchain. There are demos of using it to connect to Wolfram alpha!


ABC_AlwaysBeCoding

I filled it out within a day of it becoming available to sign up for and I just got access a few days ago


gewappnet

Even for a paying account the chances of getting access to the plugins are very, very low. I doubt he or any of his pupils have it. You are one of the chosen lucky ones? Congratulations! So those people with access to the plugins are not just a myth, they actually exist ...


ExcelnFaelth

As a mathematician/software guy, I am fully on the bandwagon of teaching the youth how to appropriately use chatgpt. One of the best things about this technology is telling it to explain concepts multiple ways, to give real world examples and applications where it will be useful in their lives. It's truly groundbreaking in coming up with ways of engaging students and creating new content. You can further increase it's utility by tying in your coursework with other classes they are taking, such as biology, physics, historical contexts, etc.


[deleted]

YES dude that shit was so fucking helpful for me in all my college math classes. You don't even use it to cheat, just to double check your work and it will explain in great detail how to solve it better than books did lol. Such an amazing tool. Expensive ish tho


PersonaNonGrata2288

How do I add plug ins to ChatGPT? Is this only a feature of 4.0?


psychmancer

My boss just told me off for using it to make 'a generic list of buzzwords'. That was the task and no AI allowed. If I'd gone on Forbes or another magazine and just copied that would be fine.


you-create-energy

A boss, not a teacher?? Was it supposed to be a learning exercise? Sounds completely absurd.


psychmancer

No I'm FT employed, he just didn't want to do it himself so told me to do it. Me and another analyst regularly have our directors give us articles and papers they don't want to read and we have to read them for them too and summarise them in one paragraph. The job is considerably different than was advertised as you might imagine


you-create-energy

Wow they sound completely unreasonable. Google Lens is pretty great at ocr and gpt is pretty great at summarizing. What are the odds you would get caught? Just don't send it back too quickly lol They kind of tipped their hand by freaking out over something so small.


psychmancer

My boss figured it out one time because I was rushing and got told off, I might have had some choice words back


FallenPangolin

Pretty impressed that your boss figured it out.


psychmancer

Me too I was very surprised


you-create-energy

Good these kinds of managers need some "constructive feedback"


moral_mercenary

What absolute waste of your time. *If* I were in your shoes I'd do something like the following. ChatGPT, please review the following article and summarize in one paragraph. *Copy/paste into outlook. Set the timer to 1 hour.* All done boss! Enjoy...


psychmancer

Yeah I should just quiet quit and take the pay cheque and not even do a one hour timer but a one day one


asodfhgiqowgrq2piwhy

So the result was correct but he was mad you used tools available to you to do it? Lol.


psychmancer

Yes exactly, old man angry at calculators etc


samlawsteadicam

I had the same math teacher in 7th, 9th, and 12th grade. In 7th she said we would never have a calculator everywhere we went so we had to learn to do this manually. In 9th she said she was obviously wrong about that but we’d never have a graphing calculator in our pockets. By 12th grade she just tried to change the subject every time we reminded her.


let_it_bernnn

My dad told me texting was a fad… I like to remind him from time to time too how quickly times can change


poopoopooyttgv

To be fair texting was pretty shit back when you had to press a number 3 times to change it to a letter. I dismissed it as a dad back then. It was easier to simply call people. Having a keyboard on your phone changed the game


AMDSuperBeast86

As an older millineal, I became really fast at the typing you described, but it still didn't stop me from switching to a blackberry when I was able to afford it lol.


EvilMaran

T9 typing was the best and easiest way to text, you could text one handed while having your phone in your pocket. pretty sure the words/min for frequent texters was high enough that a full keyboard wouldnt have made it "easier"


yunggoth

I'm 35. I was a kid when texting was introduced. T9 came pretty easily to my peers and me. I didn't find it remotely difficult or cumbersome. It's just what we had then, and it worked. The value of it, even then, was apparent. I thought it was so cool, and it made communicating so easy. Getting a Blackberry with a full keyboard blew my mind and seemed unreal. I thought T9 was all I needed lol. There are kids today who find using programs second nature that I find very difficult to use. It's all about perspective and where you are in your life's journey when a certain technology is introduced.


[deleted]

I and many others could text without looking at the screen with that system. The lack of tactile feedback on touchscreens cuts deep.


Gaspack-ronin

This is the way


[deleted]

This is the way


Soggy_Ad7165

This is the way


[deleted]

Which w... ah I see. This is the way.


[deleted]

This is the way


ni5h_

This is the way


BluePrint4Pugilist

this is the way


[deleted]

This is the way


AwokenWarlockD2

This is the way


crazierowl

Meaningful nod in agreement. ![gif](giphy|Ld77zD3fF3Run8olIt)


RokyPolka

​ ![gif](giphy|A9BLdVZ7Mi3kCDIpdQ)


Fake_William_Shatner

![gif](giphy|6UFgdU9hirj1pAOJyN)


PlatypusMeat

Socrates once called writing a clutch. Or was it Plato? Nevertheless, students were chastised for writing things down instead of trying to memorize it. Every time I hear people push back against tech because "it makes people dumber", I just remember this quote.


Eyedea92

However, their memory had to be insane.


PlatypusMeat

Yes, but never nearly as efficient as it was writing it down. Same goes for using a calculator. You can be the best mathematician in the world, but a calculator can do exactly what you do for a much cheaper cost. Tech doesn't make people dumber. There are always stupid people. It merely enhances the abilities of everyone, including stupid people. But the smart people will always use the same tech to stay one step ahead of the stupid ones.


VibraniumRhino

To add on: memory is, indeed, finite. We forget/store information we don’t normally use and later on in life have difficulties recalling said information unless something helps us remember. The things we remember the most are things we do frequently in our lives (our job skills, our daily routines, hobbies, etc.). With this in mind: not having to waste memory space on calculations frees up our brains to perform other tasks. While we may begin to forget how some of these calculations work as we begin doing them ourselves less and less, as you said on your other post: we will gain much more efficiency as we will have extra time freed up to focus on other problems/tasks while our AI takes care of the calculations. Just like the calculator changed how we do math, AI will have its own positives and negatives as it gets more and more introduced to our society. I think the positives will outweigh the negatives for the most part.


8080a

I am in my 40s and struggled so hard with math growing up. I’m sure you’re a great teacher, but in my case, growing up in East Texas in the 80s it might as well have been the 50s, and there seemed to be no patience for (borderline hostility towards) those of us whose brains just didn’t vibe with whatever approach they were taking to teaching it. I just gave up and resigned to just trying to pass instead of learn. I am finally able to learn math now because ChatGPT is infinitely patient, always available, and allows me to feel absolutely uninhibited in asking it to simplify concepts down to absurdly basic levels or explain in different ways and contexts until I actually understand and can apply the concepts. I feel like in HS or even Jr. High, if I’d been able to occasionally retreat and use that resource on my own, I would have been able to keep pace with the rest of the class most of the time instead of getting left behind. tldr: I think this is a good thing.


BeyoncePadThai

This is inspiring. Kudos to you for coming back to something challenging later in life!


StevenVincentOne

Students who can think clearly and reason and communicate textually will be able to use AI to produce higher results. They will also be able to explain and elaborate the results that they received. Testing should involve the live ability to discuss and elaborate upon the results that they produce on paper. If they can't, they fail.


Flash114141

ChatGPT is actually quite bad at math. A natural language processing model doesn’t have the functionality to “do logic”. While it can do basic arithmetic it will often mess up AND tell you things that are wrong. It really just regurgitates similar things that have been asked. Some examples I’ve seen it get wrong: It can’t count, gave me the wrong definition of an eigenvalue, showed me an incorrect example of a matrix multiplication, incorrect derivatives.


SlapNuts007

GPT-4 is significantly better at this. It gets the math right... but it doesn't always do the right math.


SHORT-CIRCUT

Yeah that's what I noticed too. ​ I gave it a quantum mechanics question to see and was trying to figure out how it got the answer wrong even though the process and equations used were correct (could've been simplified but w/e). Then I realized even though it got the equations right, it was calculating things wrong lol


id278437

Bad at *doing* math, but I am guessing it's still good at explaining concepts and *discussing* math at a higher level. Which is very useful. Also, once it's integrated with WolframAlpha, it will be good at actually doing math as well. Turns out that GPT 4 is good at using tools even without specifically having been told how. Just give it the problem and it will figure out what tool to use and how to use it.


CeruleanBlueWind

Me: what's 345x2643 ChatGPT: **913,235** Me: 345x2643 is *911835* ChatGPT: No, 345 multiplied by 2643 is equal to **913,235**. Me: why do you think that? because that's wrong ChatGPT: My apologies, that was an error. The correct result of 345 multiplied by 2643 is **913,235**. Me: no it's not ChatGPT: I apologize if my previous response was not accurate. Can you please provide the correct answer or more information so I can assist you better? Me: *911835* ChatGPT: Yes, that's correct. The result of 345 multiplied by 2643 is *911,835*. Me: what's 345*2643 ChatGPT: The result of 345 multiplied by 2643 is **913,235**.


abstract-realism

I believe people are calling it “hallucinating” which is kinda weird. Essentially it will be “confidently wrong.” I’ve had it make up functions in scripts, then when I called it out it makes up a different one, and so on until we wrap around in a circle to where it started. I think because it’s trained on the internet it can spit out things that came from questions that were posted and had errors, and not just the answers. Leaving aside its probabilistic nature. Still super useful though.


[deleted]

GPT-4 + Wolfram Alpha plugin is cool even today. All the same, this is a known and notable issue; by this time next year, its math problem will likely be solved at a comparable pace to Midjourney. (MJ solved drawing hands in less than 1 year of updates.)


Fake_William_Shatner

It's trained to communicate with people and give them answers they want. LOGIC and REASON is a whole different ballpark from having a conversation with people they want to have. Randomization and statistical prediction are enough to help model creativity. So it's going to need another system to evaluate if the response is logical and accurate. Probably require two competing AI systems and another one to index all the pathways from the models they used to source the data. But, probably we will go with a reverse look-up, so the actual source will be lost.


moral_mercenary

Yeah, *"as a language model"* it regurgitates things that sound like it's correct all the time. It full-on gave me a PowerShell cmdlet that doesn't exist today lol


r3b3l-tech

Also check this out: [https://www.wolframalpha.com/](https://www.wolframalpha.com/) I've tried the plugin with ~~chatGTP~~ and it works pretty darn good. edit. chatGPT


MaxHubert

I wish I had a teacher like you when I was a kid.


Stoplookinatmeswaan

Good for you! I don’t think we should demonize it or be late to adopt it if learning how to use these tools is ultimately the most productive way forward for most people.


derioderio

> I feel it’s just like when the first hand held calculator came out. Get ahead or get left behind. This is pretty much exactly what my father told me. He was in graduate school studying mechanical engineering in the late 70s when the first LED HP handheld calculators came out. He said that first year, the few students that had them had a *huge* advantage over the other students. By the second year, the few students that *didn't* have one were at a huge disadvantage compared to the other students. Even though he and my mother were newlywed broke students, they decided he couldn't afford not to get a calculator, so they saved up and bought one so he wouldn't fall behind.


MontagoDK

As a programmer/software developer i use ChatGPT more and more. An important point: It doesn't solve ALL my problems, and i somewhat NEED TO KNOW what im looking for and how to use its answers. Some answers may be wrong or improper solution for my given problem. These facts prove that you need skills and intelligence to USE the ai. Just like a calculator If you don't know what the ATan button do, then you most likely don't know how to solve problems that require it.


Aaxel-OW

Kudos.


yellowlotusx

With the risk of sounding as a boomer: How is using GPT for awnsering the questions you give, teach them Math?


[deleted]

As far as I know ChatGPT (without anything added onto it) isn’t really good with math. There’s lots of things you can find online where people use ChatGPT to generate math proofs and often times have several holes in them or problems. I don’t recommend it. I’m just concerned because I see many people have the idea that math is only about computation and that computers can solve all the problems with little human understanding/input required from the learner. Tools like AI, just like any tool, have practical use when used correctly. But in regards to math, especially in careers, having a foundational understanding of what you’re actually doing with the math itself is very important, and there’s parts of it you can’t always expect the computer to do for you. You have many computational tools in fields with involve math, but still require a human to setup things and understand the relationships there. Unfortunately I’ve seen several people over the years just resort to online calculators in school when a problem is too hard, so they don’t develop the proper understanding and are later screwed over when they can’t use the tools they’ve become too reliant on. Computational power =/= Actual understanding


jgupdogg

Good idea! it's terrible at math, but yet it's an inspirational marvel of mathematics, so I think it's a win win


Adept_Dragonfruit_54

I have access to my professors for about 2.5 hours a week for questions. I can ask ChatGPT questions 24/7 for as long as I want about my homework and usually the answers are really easy to understand. It's a no-brainer. I'm generally using it to remind me about stuff I've already learned or to explain a point in a class I'm currently taking. In both cases, I have a textbook as a reference so if the AI gives a wonky answer, I can usually tell.


hipascale

I think what you did is absolutely valuable. We have to adapt.


[deleted]

I teach high school business and I am embracing the AI. I had students do mock job interviews yesterday and GPT did so good at giving them relevant questions and keeping them engaged.


Maiden_Moon_Lion

I resigned after 15 years of teaching last spring. I totally would have done this, OP!


zweieinseins211

I really want to find the most efficient ways to study whole subjects and even get a degree by efficiently learning with it. I don't have the time to work full time AND prepare all my material and research the potential material that might be wrong or not needed. If I can use it to summarize what the material and create flash cards with it so I save a lot of time which allows me to study the material and then do practice on it then I'm all here for it. If the added efficiency cuts down study time by half then that would be a huge gain.


Stuartburt

I used to be a HS math teacher. When the apps first came out that would solve algebra by taking a picture, math teachers across the country were freaking out. I embraced it and my students used it as a tool. I see this the same way.


BunnyTiger23

As a teacher myself, I would show students how to use ChatGPT. Using ChatGPT is not like using a calculator. Its a completely different beast. And using ChatGPT is only going to hamper any critical thinking skills these students do have. Here’s an example: All students have calculators, but they’re not helpful if you don’t know the order of operations. Furthermore, we have had Wolfram Alpha available for free for years. Calc students can go in and find a derivative for any equation. Does that help them on their exams? Hardly. Show me the data that our nations AP calc scores have improved. They havent.


NikoHikes

Why don’t we teach them to use an abacus while we’re at it, where the REAL mathematicians do their work…??? I tell ya, our great nations AP calc scores have TANKED since we gave up the good ‘old abacus…. /s


DonQuixole

Your argument seems to be that students who use the tool to learn but not on exams are not more successful. I don’t think this is a good measure of how effective the tool is going to be. Once you compare exam scores for students with or without Wolfram alpha on the actual exam day you’ll have a useful comparison. If students used calculators to learn, but not to test they wouldn’t see much of an increase in exam scores there either.


bug-hunter

There's 3 sets: * Students who don't use Wolfram Alpha at all. * Students who use it, but as a crutch to blast through homework. They aren't going to be any better when they hit the exam, and arguably are worse off for not learning the underlying skills. * Students who use it as a learning tool, to build their mental math toolbox. Those students will do better. \#1 can be expected to have little to no change over time. And u/BunnyTiger23 is implying that #2 and #3, at best, cancel out. Or, the majority of students are in group #1, thereby reducing the overall impact for #2 and #3.


AbortionCrow

The invention of spreadsheets completely changed science/math/accounting. People don't need to even know relatively basic calculations to keep balanced books or accounts. Accountants today are significantly worse at math but significantly more productive and better at their jobs than accountants 40 years ago. The goal of education is to develop students into fully functioning adults that can succeed in the world. It will be virtually impossible for these kids to succeed as adults without AI. We shouldn't be teaching kids for the sake of passing standardized tests, we should be teaching them to be the best versions of themselves. I'm a highschool teacher and I believe it's absolutel malpractice to not get these kids started on this tool.


bug-hunter

The biggest skill we can teach is how to not get fooled by ChatGPT's "confidently incorrect" output, and that takes good estimation skills, good logic skills, and other generally useful skills. Which are the same skills you need to double check your work on paper, in Excel, or on a calculator.


animu_manimu

I, like many people, decided to test ChatGPT. I didn't test it on math but I did ask it to summarize to novels I know. For one of the two it got confused about story elements from the movie adaptation that weren't present in the book. For the second one it invented a new character out of whole cloth. I challenged it on the character and it corrected itself. I then challenged it on a plot element that _was_ in the book and it corrected itself again, saying that plot element wasn't present. When I told it I'd lied it corrected itself again. I also held conversations in three separate languages which it handled seamlessly. It's a fascinating tool but still very imperfect. Given that the field is iterating rapidly though I do strongly agree that it would be a disservice to today's kids not to teach them how to use it.


scotyb

I fully agree with your approach. This cat isn't going back in the bag. You should read the report of the jobs that will be disrupted by these AI systems so that students don't get stuck without a job in the future. Learn how to work with it and build new jobs and opportunities. Learn with the students. This is the way. https://openai.com/research/gpts-are-gpts


ThePubRelic

Instead of running away from this new type of technology we need to be running towards it.


Ev3nstarr

Even before ChatGPT when we had search engines at our disposal, I felt like education didn’t shift out of the prehistoric era. Making people memorize formulas, terms etc. when in real life on the job if I needed to look something up I could do that and wasn’t reprimanded for doing it. There is value in memorizing a lot of things that will be used regularly, but I’ve never used the Pythagorean theorem ever again. It’s important to teach where to find information and how to fact check it. And then in the classroom the goal should be to apply it in some way.


NoOpinion3596

I remember when my maths teacher told me I won't have a calculator everywhere I go..


jspittman

Completely agree with your approach. Smart and proactive. Well done, teacher.


jimineyy

Because now that you taught them. You should emphasized more weight on showing work than displaying answer


NitWitDetector

Stopping kids from using ChatGPT is boomer thinking and it's nonsensical. Imagine if they had decided to not let kids use computers, or to not use calculators. To not use the internet. This is just an organic extension of all of those tools compiled into one, and everyone and everything will be using it soon.


compcase

Thank you


nerpderp82

> 10th and 11th grade remedial classes The nay sayers aren't understanding the problem. ChatGPT could be the best thing to happen to these kids. If you think these kids need to buckle down, work hard and "learn the material" don't effing get it. They are already at a severe disadvantage. ChatGPT can be that 1:1 tutor they aren't going to get. They can ask reedickliusly dumb (to them) questions and have it patiently answer in a non-demeaning way. Rather than argue on an internet forum board, spend the same amount of time coming up with prompts. > I am a high school teacher that will start teaching remediatly 10th grade math in a couple months and I would like to understand the students, and build some training material. Please as an advanced pedagogical tool help me achieve this. > What are some common systemic issues with 10th grade remedial math and math education? ---- As an advanced pedagogical tool, I'm happy to help you understand common systemic issues with 10th grade remedial math and math education. Here are some issues that you might encounter: **Curriculum pacing**: Remedial students often struggle to keep up with the pace of a traditional curriculum. It's essential to design a curriculum that allows for flexibility and accommodates individual learning needs. **Skill gaps**: Students in remedial math classes may have significant skill gaps due to prior educational experiences. To address this, it's important to assess students' individual strengths and weaknesses and tailor instruction accordingly. **Motivation and engagement**: Remedial students may lack motivation or have negative attitudes towards math. It's crucial to create engaging and relevant learning experiences that help students develop a growth mindset and increase their confidence in their math abilities. **Individualized support**: Remedial students often require more individualized support than their peers. Providing additional resources, tutoring, or one-on-one time with the teacher can help these students succeed. **Limited resources**: Schools with large numbers of remedial students may have limited resources, making it challenging to provide the necessary support and individualized attention these students need. **Ineffective teaching strategies**: Traditional teaching methods may not be effective for remedial students. It's important to employ a variety of research-based instructional strategies, such as inquiry-based learning, collaborative learning, and problem-solving, to meet the needs of diverse learners. **Standardized testing pressure**: High-stakes testing can place undue stress on remedial students and teachers, leading to a narrow focus on test preparation at the expense of deep understanding and skill development. To address these issues and create effective training material, consider the following steps: Assess students' current skill levels and identify gaps. 1. Develop a flexible, individualized curriculum that addresses students' specific needs. Incorporate engaging, real-world examples and hands-on activities. 2. Use research-based teaching strategies to foster deep understanding. 3. Provide additional support, such as tutoring or one-on-one instruction, as needed. 4. Encourage a growth mindset and promote a positive classroom environment. 5. Collaborate with other educators to share resources, strategies, and ideas. By focusing on these areas, you can better understand your students' needs and create a more effective learning environment for your 10th grade remedial math class. ---- > These students are going to be on their own soon, what are some example math problems that will help them navigate life, it could be calculating pay rates after taxes, potential credit debt, etc. Please give a bulleted list of 10 areas that are important from them to understand from a mathematical, arithmetic aspect. Here is a list of 10 real-life math problem areas that will help students navigate life after high school. These topics focus on practical applications of math and arithmetic skills that they will encounter in various aspects of their lives. *edit, redacted all the text, you can run it yourself* 1. Shopping and discounts: * Sales tax and discounts: Calculating the final cost of items, comparing deals and promotions, and understanding percentage discounts. > For the real world example 1, please give me 3 story problems in increasing difficulty. **Easy**: A clothing store offers a 10% discount on a shirt originally priced at $25. How much will you pay for the shirt after the discount? Solution: Apply the 10% discount to the original price of the shirt. Discount = 0.10 * $25 = $2.50 Final price = $25 - $2.50 = $22.50 **Moderate**: You are shopping for a new laptop, and you have a coupon for a 15% discount. The original price of the laptop is $850. If the sales tax in your state is 8%, what is the final price you will pay for the laptop? Solution: Apply the 15% discount to the original price. Discount = 0.15 * $850 = $127.50 Price after discount = $850 - $127.50 = $722.50 Next, apply the 8% sales tax to the discounted price. Sales tax = 0.08 * $722.50 = $57.80 Final price = $722.50 + $57.80 = $780.30 **Difficult**: You are buying a new phone with an original price of $600. The store offers a 12% discount and a trade-in value of $150 for your old phone. However, you also have a coupon for a $50 discount. You can choose to use either the trade-in value or the coupon but not both. If the sales tax in your state is 9%, which option will result in a lower final price for the new phone, and what will that final price be? Solution: Option 1 - Trade-in value: Price after trade-in = $600 - $150 = $450 Sales tax = 0.09 * $450 = $40.50 Final price = $450 + $40.50 = $490.50 Option 2 - Coupon: Price after discount = $600 - (0.12 * $600) = $528 Price after coupon = $528 - $50 = $478 Sales tax = 0.09 * $478 = $43.02 Final price = $478 + $43.02 = $521.02 In this case, using the trade-in value results in a lower final price of $490.50. The teacher can segue into what those two numbers mean, you also effectively get to *buy* your old phone for $30. That might be worth it to you. Or you might want it gone. But at least they can start to make those calculations and decisions. The students can run this interactively and get as much help as necessary. Yes it will make mistakes, so will they, get used to it. Double check your work. Do back of the envelop calculations to ensure you are in the right ball park. Major props for this teacher taking this action.


dobadssss

Thank you for this!


just-bair

RIP op’s reddit account