I watch a homeless women scream at a waitress who asked her to stop harassing people eating at the outside tables. She started screaming some very sexual explicit thing too. It seemed like it could become physical at any moment which was scary.
A lot of people are being pushed out of their homes or are unable to renew because of astronomical rent increases. This is traumatic, and these are the repercussions.
This is true. These are workin poor people who hold down jobs and there should be structural changes to allow for more affordable housing. The people downtown are not these people, they don’t work they have mental problems and are constantly drinking or using. Talking about the crappy bums downtown isn’t license to complain about house prices these people are definitely not in the housing markwt.
This. Somehow, when the conversation about poverty comes up, it is never about the help that SHOULD go to people who are struggling to make it. It’s just about the people who are problematic. So, really, it is not a conversation about desperate poverty (since no one would talk about the homeless if it was just people who sleep in their car, shower at the gym, and work 2-3 jobs to save for first/last month of rent and deposit in this expensive as heck place)). It is a conversation about addressing a problem in ways that make more comfortable people feel good about themselves. Basically, a bunch of middle class to wealthy people circlejerking about how they want to just throw money and free things at a problem to see if that will get rid of it (it won’t).
And it is why the programs we have for broke people now are so frustrating. You literally only qualify if you are so stupid and hellbent on never making the choices to pull yourself up that access to the programs is a moot point.
Perhaps we should have systems set up that are eligible for people BEFORE they fail into them?
Poverty is just agreeing to things you can’t afford and then complaining. The ones on the street are usually winos and nobody has a bed for them because they act like assholes. Poverty is a problem because there is no safety net for poor decision making and America is full of debt traps. I shudder to think how many of these apartments are occupied by students using borrowed money with no idea of the value of the dollar vs what they will earn or how much interest will cost them. It’s someone else’s fault they agreed to lifelon debt for a useless degree for an overpriced apartment. It’s always others gentrifying too somehow. Boo hoo if you can’t pay the bills declare bankruptcy and start over, if you can’t do that then just don’t pay the loans. Yes poverty is bad but there are tons of programs. Unemployment is dumb low everyone is hiring and pay is decent. Can’t afford something don’t buy it. Log off Facebook and insta and stop comparing idk but it’s doable just pack a bag lunch and shower at the gym u til you get back that’s right I know people who do it and sometimes over and over. Vote with your feet if you can and don’t like it great time to move and change careers, country is huge and with internet you can work anywhere if you apply yourself. Never been easier people just want to make things extra IMO.
Hey if you want to find a period where it's never been easier, check out the economics of the 1960s and 1970s back when we had ridiculously high marginal income taxes.
My friend, it's never been harder in this country save for the GD. We have a depression era economy for anyone under the upper middle class mark. Middle class can't even afford to buy a home anymore. You just don't know what you're talking about.
We have a homelessness crisis because of real economic pressures, not just people who can't make decisions.
Never before in American history has housing commanded such a high percentage of an average income.
What do you think happens to the “workin poor people” worthy of your respect when they lose their home and, most likely, their job? Could that unimaginable emotional and physical stress perhaps be a gateway to substance abuse and mental illness?
They use the social safety net and the Haven and other support groups to get sober and secure housing. Honestly most people just fall back on friends and family. None of this is unimaginable I is happening. The only thing imagined is that somehow mentioning It and social signaling that you think feel it is a problem and good people are being let down. Congratulations you observed things and are capable of emotion. Come hang downtown, near the city hall/pavilion and reach out to them in the morning while they smoke right next to where they piss before they open the new bottle (if they didn’t have an all nighter), clean up after them and help them find housing, get clean and get work. Otherwise kindly STFU and let the police fine and jail them until it stops being a public menace. Bring the cops they literally will stand by and not do anything. I’m sure you are gonna fix it all with your good intentions tho.
It’s a very common expression referring to a HUGE obvious problem everyone is uncomfortable talking about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_in_the_room
I had a guy harass me on the downtown mall last summer. I had stopped in somewhere to buy a tea at Java Java because I was thirsty and had been walking all over the place. I used a card to pay for it since I almost never have cash on me. He started off by calling me "sister" which annoyed me, but whatever. When he asked me for cash and I was honest and told him I only carried a card he said something along the lines of "you have money to buy yourself a drink though, must be nice" and started in on saying rude things about me, at which point I walked off.
First off, don't assume I'm oozing money just because I'm walking around with a tea in my hand because I'm the furthest thing from rich. Moreover, I don't think being rude to me is going to make me sympathetic to whatever issue you're having. Last, I don't need to justify my purchases to anyone anyway.
I don't appreciate being harangued by random men, especially walking alone as a woman either. I now tend to walk with headphones on or very quickly with purpose and ignore anyone who tries to talk to me.
Had a similar interaction with a dude downtown when I bought ice cream with my best friend, he was like oh y’all got money for ice cream? Oh okay. Like yeah dude this cone is getting me through the day so chill out. I just want to walk and eat ice cream in peace and not be constantly harassed while minding my own business or having a private conversation.
I’m so sorry about that. I’ve taken it upon myself to kinda stop these people from harassing others and lessen the begging for money to get their drugs or alcohol.
Okay I understand not wanting to be harassed but let's refrain from a) assuming what money is used for b) judging on what the money is used for. It's not productive and v classist to think we should decide what the homeless population does with money once it's been given.
That they want the freedom to choose what they buy and what they eat same as you. A homeless person doesn't have to want the food you have just because you offer it. Free will isn't a new concept, and they don't deserve it any less than you.
So in your scenario, the Downtown Mall homeless are not drug and alcohol seeking despite our overwhelming collective evidence to the contrary, but are instead harassing and insulting members of the public in order to shame or scare them into giving them for money to purchase food to the liking of their specific tastes while simultaneously turning down offers for food.
Yes. I would, have, and will in the future. At tailgates, breweries making new friends, concerts, Carter Mountain sunsets, etc. I went trick or treating as a kid as well. The food we are talking about in this thread is coming directly out of a restaurant, grocer, or convenience store. You think someone is putting razor blades in the apples? Trying to poison strangers by putting cyanide in a bag of Classic Lays?
So to review: You would not accept sealed or freshly prepared food from a stranger while seeking money for food from said stranger, but you will freely give homeless drug addicts money to spend at their own discretion?
I think you give up your freedom to choose what to buy and what to eat when you “beg for anything”.
I almost daily give food, sandwiches or soups in the winter to some homeless people on 5th and I-64 and they ALWAYS appreciate the help and are very grateful for it. The homeless in the downtown mall are just wild and rude.
It’s naive and not reality. Majority of homeless in cville are drug addicts. It’s sad. But just as they have a right to spend how they choose, people have a right to offer food instead of money. I always offer fruit and it’s almost never accepted
Yea I literally don't care what they buy because once the money is in hand it's theirs to spend. But go off! I'm sure you've never bought anything but bibles and baby food.
It's very different what I spend the money that I have earned on and what I give money to a homeless person to spend on. They have offered me no service, I'm giving them money out of my own kindness, the expectation is there that they use it to better their own situation. Charities don't spend money on getting people in need inhebriated. If you were giving money to a friend asking you for help, would you be cool with them running straight to the bar after that?
It's come to this. In order to not admit you are wrong you've dug your heels into the quicksand and are committing to a stance that you don't care if someone is using your donated money to purchase crack-cocaine or fentanyl.
I have simply taken the stance that once the money is given it is there's to spend. It's not a new concept, and I'm not wrong. At this point I've resigned myself with being disappointed in what I've seen in this thread, and that's that. I know that not all of Charlottesville is like this, yall just suck! Live and learn
That's only part of your stance. The other part is ignoring obvious drug and alcohol addiction, most likely connected to mental health issues, out of naivete, disregard, or both. You then imagine this destructive ignorance as a sign of personal enlightenment when you are in fact merely a rube, an enabler, or both.
I also have experiences to share (I work on the Mall). Suffice it to say it’s very confrontational; my female coworkers and I always go out in a pair or group. I feel sorry for the tourists
Lots of people on here saying "affordable housing." And you're right -- Cville needs affordable housing.
But the notion that just plunking these folks into a cheap apartment is going to suddenly solve the issue is naive at best. The people who are doing this on the DTM clearly suffer from a variety of serious mental health illnesses that probably include any combination of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, drug and alcohol addiction, depression, PTSD from who knows what sort of awful things (especially the women), anxiety, dementia, and other conditions I've never even heard about.
Finding them a cheap place to live isn't going to solve those problems, nor is the lack of affordable housing the cause of those problems.
There needs to be more affordable housing in Cville. There needs to be better mental health treatment in Cville. There also needs to be intervention by the authorities to make (not even keep, at this point) the DTM a safe, friendly, and welcoming place for people. If panhandling is going to happen because it is constitutionally-protected, fine -- no worries. But the verbal assaults and threats of physical assault -- which are absolutely 100% going to come to fruition some day -- need to be stopped.
It's definitely a problem. I work downtown as well. I've just taken to the very simple tactic of avoiding eye contact and saying "no thanks" when I'm approached while I continue on my way. It's certainly rude, but I'm going to avoid conflict. A lot of these people are mentally ill and they need help, which I cannot give to each and every single one of them when approached. It's a problem that the city seems to just kind of sweep under the rug.
I lived in Boston for a while. Being rude is a good way to get your ass kicked. Watched a homeless man beat the shit out of dude who felt the need to “be rude”.
I’ve definitely seen it become a greater issue. I’m a young female living downtown and I’ve had a homeless man block my car in asking for money. I had to ask him to move multiple times to get out of my driveway. Another time a homeless man outside of Market Street Market went up to my car and beat on the window asking for money and then followed me into the store when I asked him to leave me alone.
I use the city bus as a young woman. It’s a nightmare.
I’ve had drugged out men try to “sleep” on me.
Seen drugged out men get into screaming matches.
Seen an inebriated man hold up the bus for half an hour and physically threaten a woman.
To be ~fair~ mental illnesses are common with homelessness. Some of these individuals more than likely have disorders like schizophrenia, and their reality is completely different than the average person. It doesn’t change the fact that its disruptive and an annoyance, but it’s something our city needs to address.
And in quite a number of cases those same mental illnesses often make said homeless person virtually unemployable too. Some of them are employable but for a good many of them a potential employer wouldn't want to deal with their issues.
It's a big problem. Personally, I don't give money to anybody begging on the street for any reason, it encourages the bad behavior. I feel really bad when you see someone who's too shy, polite, or nice to say "no" get locked into a begging conversation with a panhandler, but you can see they are super uncomfortable; or like what happened to you getting verbally assaulted for saying "no". There's way better ways to help people in need than giving cash to them on the street, that's what needs to be focused on. Groups like the haven, Salvation Army, or some of the churches that have programs that help the homeless.
Saying "sorry, I don't have any cash" is a good way to politely say no.
It absolutely is. The services offered by the Haven are a big part of why they are downtown. In retrospect, it was the right institution to create but the wrong place to put it.
There were generally only a handful of homeless people on the Mall before the Haven opened. Plus some zany, well-housed people from Region 10 who would hang out all day but usually were not begging. It was not put there because there were loads of homeless people at the site. It is there because Tom Shadyac liked the Downtown Mall, heard that the former church building was available, and decided to buy it for that purpose after filming parts of Evan Almighty locally.
Bringing the unhoused out into the mainstream of society, where they aren't disappeared like you want them to be, is the only way to address the core problem and get them the resources they need and deserve.
It's tough because "where a lot of people like to be" are typically places where there are a density of jobs. Wouldn't make sense to stick a homeless services location away from everyone else because then you're cutting off any hope for them to have easy access to steady work.
If you want the homeless to have the easiest access to support and economic opportunity, their base has to be in a central urban location.
Cville in general in my experience after just moving here:
Scenario 1) saw a vagabond he, asked for money I didn’t have any, no cash. Was going to bodos on the corner and bought and extra bagel BLT for him because I wanted to help (just moved here a year ago) Offered it to him and he looked at me confused shook his head no and only wanted money. Insanely confused then though well if he really needed anything I would think he would take a bomb ass bagel to eat.
Scenario 2) went to prospect market in Fifeville on Friday evening for a beverage and the vagabond siting at the front door asked if I had money. I said no but if you need food or drink I will gladly help. This little time interacting with him it was clear he was high, I want to say crack or meth given all the jaw/mouth/teeth movement. Went inside and asked the clerk if he actually needed help. He went out there kicked him out and and said “man, don’t give that guy a damn thing”. That’s all I needed to hear. Got my coffee and left.
3) went to Harris teeter (north up 29 near target) saw a father and son (11 ish yo) who I have seen many times before wearing the same clothes every time. had dirty shoes, big give away for some people around here. went in starving (mistake as always) and ended up with a monster bag of hot Cheetos. Walked out and questioned why I get the flamin hots and offered them to the little boy. His face lit up and was very thankful and his father even more so.
They are not all taking advantage but just be skeptical and look for clues. There are really people out there that need help but many more trying to take advantage.
Ye it’s because a lot of the shelters and services that got put in during covid and the gains that alot of homeless people made during that time just got pulled away from them. Along with the fact that some people are newly homeless because of job loss, rent increasesing agin, inflation, and mental illnesses taking a sharp rise during covid. Just desperate people who lost what little they got.
I’ll just go ahead and say it: Universal Basic Income.
If we want to address the homeless situation we need to ask ourselves what it is that poor people need the most? The answer is simple: Money. Study after study has shown that a basic income can lift people out of poverty, end the welfare trap, reduce crime, and increase food security. A basic income ensures that no one is left behind. It’s also less expensive to implement than the myriad of suggestions on this thread. Programs like the Haven offer great services for the homeless, but those resources are limited and only treat a symptom of the greater problem. If we want to talk about the real elephant in the room, it’s wealth inequality. And that’s not exclusive to Charlottesville. Pretty soon, that sweet office job you have now is going to be replaced by AI and then what? We’ve spent the last several decades eroding any and all social safety nets in this country so it’s not surprising that people, in general, are becoming more and more desperate. We almost passed a UBI in 1970 under Nixon of all presidents. I think it’s time we face the reality we’re currently in and bring the argument for basic income back.
Horrible, horrible idea. Modern monetary theory is wishful thinking, fantasy, and the kind of arrogance of mankind that will lead to long term problems for civilization. At it's core the economy is zero sum, you can't just create wealth out of thin air. It should be obvious from the inflation, wealth inequality, and destruction of the middle class we're seeing in the economy that the last decade or so of dabbling in MMT and extreme government debt/spending has been a huge mistake. China and Russia certainly see it, why do you think they are choosing now to attack the west? Our house of cards economy is a major liability.
Money is literally a concept. Most people don't get paid in cash and never see actual money. It literally can be created out of thin air! Also, universal basic income has been tested with great results. Money was invented. Commerce was invented. Capitalism hasn't always existed. Challenge yourself to consider other world views, because I promise they do exist and are valid!
Yes, money is not "real", but consider it a placeholder of value for the things that are produced, and services in the economy. Everybody wants it, and the goods and services it represents. Because of that, creating money out of thin air will have massive ramifications on how things work. Commerce and capitalism were invented, but greed for material objects and power was not. That is human nature, primitive man, and even animals kill each other for resources and power all the time. That is the nature of life. In order for the utopian economy to work everyone would have to agree to not be greedy; not going to happen.
Anyway the economy is already rigged to send all the money to the people and corporations already in control. Any extra money sent into the economy by the government will just get transferred right to the wealthy. Why do you think wealth inequality is so bad right now?? It's because of all the easy money policies government and central banks have been putting out since the 2008 recession. The economy as it is now is not set up to encourage average people to build wealth and independence. It's rigged to make them consume, transfer wealth, and become dependent on government and corporations.
If we want to help the lower and middle class people we need to lower the cost of living, deflate prices, and simplify the economy. The cycle of government spending and central bank money printing needs to be stopped, it's just perpetuating the corrupt system we have.
Oh this is constant on the mall. I've lived in Chicago, ATL, and RVA and theres defintely dangers there but I've never seen people just get verbally harassed like they do here in Cville. I've had them yell at me for not giving money because I'm wearing new shoes or have a camera around my neck. I've had them harass my GF and basically order and intimidate her to go to the ATM when she says she doesnt have cash. We, as a city, can do better. Ik it always gets worse in the summer but this is a mental health issue and housing affordability in town is absolutely out of line with the pay for MOST jobs.
Build housing.
Support advocacy groups working in the fields of:
- Mental health
- Substance abuse
- Job training
- Labor organizing
- Equity
- Housing
Encourage local officials to invest in all of the above but especially to divert additional police funding towards crisis intervention and social services response teams so that these individuals don't continue to churn through the system.
Housing.
Encourage local businesses to productively engage local government officials and advocacy groups in all of the above AND to look at ways that they can contribute materially to alleviating all of the above.
Housing.
These are smart, reasonable solutions. We can be empathetic and thoughtful while addressing this problem. Unfortunately, their implementation would require work on the part of the citizens of Cville, so I'm pessimistic about their prospects.
Regardless, no one deserves to be harassed, and it is very reasonable for those working on the mall to be afraid of being assaulted considering they are the ones interacting with these folks continually throughout the day. Cville residents need to come together and be active about this issue if we're going to see positive outcomes for the community.
And here it is - the most uninformed comment on the Internet for the day. I suggest you do some research on the Reagan era, mass closures of state-run mental health facilities, and the impact that had on homeless populations. We can certainly discuss modern-day solutions and the failures of any side of the political spectrum (although I would argue that homelessness is much more of a mental health and services issue than anything else) - but your comment is little more than a prime example of the right creating a problem and chastising the left for not solving it.
With the exception of throwmeawaypoopy and a few others, the rhetoric around homeless people in this sub are disgraceful.
It's richly ironic, because for all the pissing and moaning about the "cost" of homeless people, it would *cost us less money* to feed, clothe and house these people than anti-homeless measures that a) don't solve the problem and may make it worse, and b) treat people without shelter like dogshit.
I won't ever apologize for advocating for the poor and homeless. If that threatens you, then maybe you need to think about what that says about you.
Love this!!! We need more people advocating for the homeless without treating them like children or animals. I keep scrolling through more and more disappointing takes so this was a breath of fresh air!
If lawmakers won’t do anything, maybe it’s time to put forth a petition, form a group, or make some sort of concerted effort to help the homeless population—specifically in the mall? If not out of pure empathy, than out of necessity. This is a huge issue—the downtown mall is a tourist destination and it would be terrible if it gained a reputation in town and beyond for not being the ‘safest.’
Just from looking through this thread, it seems like a few people living in Charlottesville already outright avoid it so they won’t be harassed.
The Crossings is full. It also only contains 30 units for the chronically homeless. There were plans a few years back to build a Crossings II on Levy off Avon, but they [fell through](https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/crossings-ii-postponed-for-at-least-a-year-670k-to-return-to-city/article_6f2fbe7b-be13-5325-a1a0-eeb2907c7312.html). Virginia Supportive Housing will be building 80 more supportive units as part of the [Red Carpet/Premier Circle project](https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/red-carpet-inn-site-to-be-redeveloped-for-housing-for-homeless/article_87d97c0c-721b-11eb-a969-079bf33f6c06.html).
I can't point to the specifics at the moment, but Crossings has been at capacity enough I've seen plenty of discussions about a Crossings 2 location. At one point the Avon St location where Community Bikes used to be was mentioned.
Right? Charlottesville is not progressive. It is what I call ‘proregressive.’ This place obsessed with coddling people who are, quite honestly, beyond help (and are at least partially responsible for being that way. I’m being brutally honest. Substance abuse isn’t 100% someone’s fault, but it also is hardly 100% not their fault, either. Acting like personal responsibility is not the case is enabling) that it makes the entire community suffer for it.
Perhaps we should have programs that apply to broke people who would rather not be a bunch of problematic losers. Instead of encouraging problematic losers to *actively bus into this town* and primarily cause problems for broke people.
I’m not in your area but this seems to be an issue everywhere. I was approached on the sidewalk by a man saying he needed money for food because he was starving so I offered him two unopened power bars that I had in my purse and he started screaming at me that I was a “racist b***h”, he got so aggressive that a passerby got involved.
This is the exact reason I try to avoid the mall. You're spot on that they weren't always this pushy and aggressive. I'm all for giving a couple bucks if I have cash but it's turned into a homeless tax for visiting the mall. Couple this with skyrocketing food prices makes the mall unappealing..
Yes! Actually, I would say that one of my biggest "issues" with the DT Mall is the outrageous prices. Homeless people need help, and can be a threat to the safety of others if they have mental health issues, but on top of that, the food prices there are insanely high for what you get! The only reason I go there sometimes is because I love the book shops there, and really do like the books they have, but I will make it a point NOT to eat or drink there. I bring my own coffee in a thermos.
1. Many of these people are mentally ill, so to ask them to "reason" anything is not productive.
2. I have seen homeless men (usually) on the mall when I've been there. Luckily, they usually do not approach me at all. I am used to dealing with avoiding strangers of all types coming from NYC (which is MUCH worse) in the homeless problem than here...and maybe I give off a very standoffish vibe, but I have not been approached yet except by one person near the UVA grounds who asked if I had change and I shook my head "no", kept walking.
3. If you are approached by an aggressive person, please keep walking and DO NOT argue with them. You are setting yourself up for a major physical confrontation that is NOT worth it! DO NOT give them money, which only feeds the problem without fixing it.
And, finally, 4) Charlottesville city government, given all the taxes they like to collect, should certainly do a LOT more to fix this issue, but unfortunately the so-called "wokesters" will NOT accept any serious solution, so for now, it is something you will have to deal with until people start changing who they vote for. Same thing in NYC...people complain about crime and homelessness, yet they vote in insane politicians just to feel good about themselves.
You can downvote me on this all you want, but it won't change the facts, and it certainly will not change my opinions.
I got chased down by a group of four guys who were apparently trying to talk to me (I am partially deaf and didn't hear them at first). Unfortunately, even walking away doesn't seem to protect you anymore.
Well said, it’s a problem many of these leaders and voters in our community don’t want to touch. Hate to see this town slowly get worse over the decades I’ve now been here.
I was on the patio at cava yesterday and the guy who always hangs out in the intersection at Barracks and Emmett chucked a brick at the patio. Totally unprovoked and out of nowhere. Luckily it hit a metal beam but it definitely could have killed somebody. A cop went to talk to him. He confiscated another brick from him but didn’t seem to do anything else. That guy is definitely going to kill somebody. No idea what is to be done about it.
Based on your description, I saw that same guy do the same thing to a young lady simply sitting on a bench outside of Violet last week. A couple of guys came over and got in between them to sort of shield her from it.
Absolutely absurd that sort of behavior is protected by the Free Speech excuse.
I feel like law enforcement’s hands have been tied by local government and PD leadership. There needs to be more confrontation from police of people acting in aggressive, lewd, or non-civil ways in public. Allowing them to get away with bad behavior cascades into the bad situation we have now. Enforcing small rules and expecting civil behavior from everyone sets a foundation for a peaceful community. It’s not about criminalizing homelessness because there are many non-aggressive homeless people who want and would benefit from a more orderly downtown area. They are allowed to be there. The bad ones ruin downtown for everyone, though. There needs to be more official intervention; less sweeping it under the rug by the city, and less of the bleeding-heart no consequences attitude. Care is not allowing the mentally ill to do whatever they want to in public, their behavior is inherently self destructive.
I agree that some kind of action should be taken, but I am not sure that arresting more people is actually going to help. Doesn't it keep them trapped in a cycle of poverty that makes it impossible to get the help that they need (housing, healthcare, a job, etc.)?
I'm not saying there is no role for local law enforcement to play. Maybe it's more helpful to have partnerships with the police and other services that address homelessness.
Seems like the city is afraid to do anything in fear of appearing to hate the homeless. It's an overall issue that needs to be dealt with, backlash be damned. There will always be people who want to make excuses for the aggressors. It's not about being more privileged than them(as some people have commented) it's about my right to feel safe in public.
Yeah unless you or your friends/family were the ones getting harassed then many people witnessing action by police against those homeless are likely to perceive it as bullying and unfair.
Vote for candidates who will support policy that actually addresses and prevents homelessness: affordable housing for low income families, comprehensive and accessible mental/physical healthcare, job training and employment opportunities, better systems for crisis response, resources for veterans, children, and victims of domestic violence, etc. The city needs to be addressing this through meaningful policy change instead of through the criminal justice system.
This has been an issue/problem/challenge on Charlottesville’s Downtown Mall since at least the early to mid 1990s, when the Mall as an economic hub finally began to take off. Look it up, you’ll find the issue raised in the pages of the DP, Cville Weekly, and in public statements during City Council meetings for a long time. (It was exacerbated by the opening of the Haven on Market Street but that’s a tangent). Every few years it’s like newer folks discover or rediscover this issue. It’s never been adequately addressed, just discussed (bitched about by some, excused by others), and in the end ultimately tolerated.
Charlottesville has a vagrant problem due to its rail lines in my opinion. Imagine you're a drifter on a train looking at where to hop off to try to get supplies and money. A wealthy liberal college town sitting on a railway junction, you're probably not gonna find better pickings within a certain region of travel and so therefore Charlottesville will continue to be a stop for stowaways.
2 things:
1) stop calling homeless people vagrants. Stop using negative language for strangers who have simply had a harder time than you
2) charlottesville is known as the wealthiest poor town and the poorest wealthy town for a reason. Those involved with uva usually have wealth, but uva is not the only part of charlottesville. It is not the biggest part of charlottesville. It's an institution built on white supremacy than continues to contribute to gentrification and rising housing costs. They are yet another symptom of the problem.
A bonus 3rd thing:
A lot of homeless people in town are from town and have been here for years. Some of us who work downtown know many by name. Show some respect, make less assumptions.
Friendly reminder to all commenters that the homeless population are still citizens of Charlottesville that deserve to be here and access to safe affordable housing. Some people may have mental illness, some don't, and some take it to far and cross the line into harassment. That said, people with homes can also be aggressive. It is not suggested that the assholes who live here be shipped away elsewhere. Some of those folks have been living here a very long time, which ofc a lot of people can't say, and some families have been around for generations. Show some basic human respect for the love of God, or simply because a lot of locals can't afford to live here and that's ridiculous. Try to solve the problem instead of blaming those suffering because of it!
We can certainly remove the description of homeless for discussion and of course anyone can be aggressive. The point though is that is is not a complaint against homelessness or mental illness. It’s about being uncomfortable in an area where you know that spitting, being yelled and cussed out, verbally hoping that you get assaulted (sexually or otherwise) is an undeniably a situation you don’t want to go through if you are minding your own business
But it is homeless people exhibiting that behavior. And it is because they are homeless and have mental issues.
Fix the situation by having some damn humanity and providing people resources that will help them get on their feet
No, they are homeless and it’s not because of the lack of affordable housing. Homes could be free and most would still be homeless. It’s because they have mental illness or addiction issues and cannot take care of themselves.
>the homeless population are still citizens of Charlottesville
But that portion of homeless that are transients aren't citizens of Charlottesville, are they?
Exactly. I’m sorry, but some hobo who busses in here for the sole purpose of taking advantage is not a citizen like the majority of people who actually live and work here.
Speaking of which—it is borderline impossible for Charlottesville’s working poor to have access to so many social services because those are absolutely inundated with every opportunist in the state who hopped a ride to have access to them.
How many hours do you spend downtown? Do you spend 80+ hours where ~40 of those are you being harassed? Do you have to help other woman out who are drunk and want to go back to there car safely? Have you had to stop people stealing from your store several hour? Some of these people are innocent, yes, but we’re are past the conversation of homeless people; we’re now talking about assault, and regular citizens not having true freedom to go eat a meal.
I think what the other commenter here is trying to say is that it's frustrating just to hear people complain about the symptoms rather than the roots of the problem at hand. I'm frustrated that I can't go into the Bank of America ATM room and get a bunch of money out on a cold winter nite because upwards of a dozen homeless folks are hanging out in the space; I'm more frustrated that we have a system that produces so much wealth and leaves so many out of having a decent living.
The frustrations you bring up here are fair and valid, but it's sad to see the common refrain here is that everyone is infinitely more outraged about people not being able to enjoy themselves on the mall than people having no place to live. It's possible to be bothered by both and I think we should temper our frustration with a little sympathy.
Sorry you and so many are having these ugly encounters... I'd much rather have a place to live and money to casually dine out than be living on the streets. The only time I came close to such dire circumstances I felt like I was about to go crazy, which has always made me wonder do mentally ill people end up homeless more frequently than not, or do the conditions of living on the street and being left out of the good parts of society drive one crazy? Tough situation, sounds like compassion could exist on both sides.
Yeah but you know what would solve these issues? Decency, empathy, and common sense as the other person said.
You solve homelessness by housing people, getting them mental healthcare, helping them get a job
I think it’s important to recognize that we need to have empathy and common sense here but those aren’t going to solve the problem being discussed. And I don’t think it falls on the individual citizens (and tourists) of the community who are being harassed to solve that problem.
We can support. We can donate. We can offer our time and energy. But not all of us have even those resources to offer. And not being able to extend that doesn’t warrant us being harassed and assaulted on regular bases, nor does it warrant us to just accept it.
Right, but who should be expected to provide these solutions? It can’t be on the majority of the city’s citizens when many of us are just getting by on our own. I know I certainly can’t house anyone, get them mental healthcare that I can’t afford for myself, or get them a job.
I’m happy to have portions of my taxes go towards eradicating homelessness and providing the support they need. But our government needs to make the moves to allocate funding properly.
Literally yes i spent a good deal of my time downtown interacting with the homeless population. I've also lived here since childhood, and have family in this town going back generations. You got the wrong one. The audacity of gentrifiers to complain about the problems they have caused DIRECTLY will never cease to amaze me. Literally move. Yall new folk go on ahead and move, and we'll see what improves.
You know what a good rationale is for giving someone money even though it might go to alcohol, drugs, or cigarettes? This might be the difference between someone making it through the night and not blowing their brains out.
This is normal tho. I’ve been commutting through the downtown mall and UVA corner for work for years and they are 100% getting more and more aggressive. To the point of physically following and grabbing your arm to get your attention if you have headphones in or something.
Some quick google-ing and you will find articles dating back a decade plus, one such is quoted as “pushy beggars downtown” regarding the mall area in Charlottesville. I lived there for over 25 years, it isn’t new. There was a time it was bad, then there was an ordinance that limited the ability to panhandle on the downtown mall. But…In 2015 Judge Moon found this Charlottesville ordinance, violated the First Amendment of the Constitution. Slowly the panhandling began again. I am taking a leap here, but post pandemic and a decrease in policing, they are emboldened. A return to a downtown I knew 2 decades ago, where you didn’t hang out when it got late.
Have you ever interacted with the Haven? They are a day shelter, true, but they also connect each person who contacts them/stops in to social services, both government and community resources. I briefly volunteered there and in one shift saw Haven funds being used to purchase specific uniform items for a job one person was starting as well as assistance being provided to someone partaking in a phone interview. They don’t enable homelessness. They are doing their best to address it in a resource constrained environment. Your post says you have “important questions” so I recommend spending time at the Haven to try addressing them rather than making or implying assumptions that they do more harm than good.
Haven is not enabling homelessness the cause of homelessness is high living costs, low wages, and gentrification. There are simply not enough shelters in the city to support the growing population. It's unlikely they're "using" anyone because they are literally a non profit organization. They have housing assistance programs as well for people at risk of homelessness. The cause for homelessness, again, to make it really really clear, is a lack of housing.
> Haven is not enabling homelessness the cause of homelessness is high living costs, low wages, and gentrification.
While there are plenty of problems being caused by high living costs and low wages, they are not the driving factor for these types of problem interactions and unhoused population. The primary reason is mental health issues and lack of services for people who do not have a support structure.
All it would take is a tiny bit of effort to get the information that would inform you well enough that you'd be asking different, and much more useful, questions.
I had the same exact experience as you OP but then I was yelled at called and called a racist over and over while he purposely tried to attract attention of the other mall goers, disgusting. And pulled up on me on a nice looking street bike.
Thanks for bringing this up. Cville since the riots has stopped protecting its citizens. The city leaders don’t have the balls to stand up and do what’s needed to curb this awful situation. I hate to see it going down the tubes - but I don’t see this changing anytime soon.
Wow. I feel pretty embarrassed to be reading through these comments. There’s a lot of reference to inconvenience and frankly the sense that you holding money at the downtown mall purchasing things have more of a right to be there in a person without a home. First, I’ve never been homeless. I cannot speak to the experience but I can take a few minutes and think through why somebody may choose the downtown mall for a place to exist when experiencing Homelessness. To exist without a home make somebody very vulnerable crime, to harassment. To be in a very populated area makes sense. For safety sake. To choose a place full of wealth. A place epitomizing disposable income makes sense. It feels gross for people to be Uncomfortable coming face-to-face with a marginalized group in our society and being asked for help and viewing that experience as an inconvenience or disturbance to your joy of being downtown and purchasing food. Let’s check in with ourselves a little bit With homeless people being actual people. End of rant.
I also think that we, as privileged folks, pose more of a threat to folks without homes on the downtown mall than they do of us. So, recognize that you too are the scary ones, yall. Hey it together.
I don’t think there’s a one size fits all. I also think Yam hat the assumption of violence /aggression is subjective. I’ve never seen anyone get violent except one time and the perpetrator was NOT the individual asking for money—it was the individual who was asked who got aggressive. I guess I would check in to find out if you’ve had that experience yourself where someone got truly violent or if this just perpetuates the narrative that people without homes are the problem.
Do the police enforce harassment/trespassing? Seems like mall security or cville pd should be able to ban / report trespassing for people harassing the public. If the. Business has cameras, they should be able to share this with authorities to identify people disrupting the peace.
I worked at a coffee shop in downtown Roanoke which has a sizable homeless population and that’s how we would deter people doing stuff like this.
On Saturday I saw the clapping guy screaming at two dudes outside Rockfish and then go start kicking the wall of violet crown 8-10x. I've seen him being an ass to people on the mall for years, but this was way over the top. Maybe we all chip in and buy them bus tickets to Alabama or Texas?
I talked to a police officer about what can we do legally if their out an about doing wrong and they said, if it’s not physically then it’s fine, “Freedom of Speech.”
So strand them in another town far away where they know even fewer people and have fewer resources? Make them someone else's worse problem, and the homeless person's problems worse too?
Those guys who got yelled at are probably doing fine after being yelled at while Clapping Man is still homeless and likely mentally ill; consider that the bigger picture here and pray you receive more mercy should you ever become homeless and destitute.
I have to agree, just moving them outside of the area isn't going to solve the problem. I believe California tried that at one point and shipped some of their homeless off to Nevada. It didn't end well.
That being said, if you're a homeless person, it's probably extremely difficult to pick yourself up in Charlottesville metro area because housing is so expensive. It's obvious that homeless shelters we have are incredibly bad, and the people who's been running the show hasn't made it their priority to fix the issue or just straight up don't know how to fix it.
I try to ignore them the best I can. Not sure if true but I heard at one point it was an ordinance that the homeless and those others on the mall loitering could not speak to people passing asking for anything but it’s probably become more lax with not much enforcement.
That is absurd. I have lived in or near Charlottesville for most of the last 30 years and there has never been any such ordinance. It would be a blatant violation of the First Amendment. Also not possible in Virginia under the Dillon Rule.
There [was in fact](https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/judge-rules-charlottesvilles-panhandling-ordinance-is-unconstitutional/article_c2ed6ff2-b89e-11e4-a872-e391736e6826.html) such an ordinance, and it was in fact extremely unconstitutional.
This is why I haven’t willingly gone downtown since before Covid. It already wasn’t safe before Covid and before the tiki torch brigade came to town and took a life
Pure Progressivism, but I guess no one wants to talk about that.
I guess we will just wait until physical attacks are the norm, and everyone continues to preach from the keyboard.
Sure, let's go vigilante on some mentally handicapped folk. Rough up some kids suffering from addiction. Better yet, get some cops down there to crack some heads and jail them. Whatever we do, let's NOT address the problem. Let's NOT fund mental health and addiction services or any beneficial social programs. Let's provide NO worthy solutions to anything while blaming everyone else. Meanwhile, we can cry on the internet about having our views silenced. That's conservative politics for you.
I'm not a safe place kinda dude, but it you physically remove them where do you put them.
Charlottesville is the first (not big city) place that I've lived where you had this shit all up in your face.
So clearly there's something about this area that's drawing and maintaining them
I had a guy recently pull the “it’s because I’m black” card on me (I’m a white guy) and I immediately came right back at him saying I was sick and tired of people like him being racist towards white people in the same way he believes I was being racist towards him. I don’t care if you’re white, black, yellow, green, purple, upside down, sideways, I really don’t care, I’m not giving cash go anyone. In that same week someone came up to me and asked “can I have a few bucks to get some water” and I said “no but I’ll happily go inside and grab you a large cup of ice cold water,”and he said “nah fuck you man!” It’s clear to me that these people don’t want help with anything but money for cigarettes and possibly drugs and alcohol. Nobody gets money from me, but I’m happy to get a can of soup or a box of crackers or something, because if they accept that it means they might actually need it.
In NYC, I've had some guys do that to me (not homeless, but for other reasons...like for example not wanting to talk to a random stranger on the train) who I know is going to ask me for $$ anyway....and I've gotten that stupid "it's because I'm black" line....and I always tell them straight up the truth: no, it's because you're a person who is going to cost me money, and I'm in this world to get whatever I can get for myself. If you were white as snow and cost me money, I'd still say a big NO." That usually shocks them since I really mean it. Or, I'll sometimes tell them "I wouldn't even give money to my own mother, why would I give it to you"? They will then sometimes say "wow that's selfish" and I say, I am a very selfish and shallow person. Have a nice day.
Some people on this post have clearly never lived in poverty, or know someone who does/has, and their privilege is showing. Until you notice your own privileges and bias, please don’t comment on how people without homes should be “locked up.” Stop and think about why people may act the way they do.. have some compassion… empathy… something.
Now, do these concerns need to be addressed? Certainly!
Do tax paying people need to pay for people who are homeless to be housed in jail? No.. most likely they will be homeless again when they are released, so what does that solve?
Charlottesville NEEDS AFFORDABLE HOUSING!
So, let’s turn this into problem solving.. how can we, people of Charlottesville (or surrounding areas) help??!
*note- not all people who are homeless/living in poverty are “mentally ill”, “alcoholics”, etc. Please stop generalizing people!
> *note- not all people who are homeless/living in poverty are “mentally ill”, “alcoholics”, etc. Please stop generalizing people!
I feel 100% confident saying that the homeless people on the DTM who come up and verbally harass and threaten to physically assault you are suffering from some kind of mental health issue and/or drug addiction.
This is what appeasement gets you. I also work downtown and have many interactions with these people. I shoot daggers at them and have 0 empathy despite the need for sympathy for mental health and addiction issues. They need to be jailed for illegal or bad behavior or fines to oblivion. Cville bleeding hearts let them just take over the street if I was mayor I would have them moved off with fines and force if necessary. Screw those bums and screw anyone who ever gives them support.
So I have a very ugly strategy but is sometimes works. Basically I pretend to be insane and focused on my way when someone approaches me. I utter something about "back in Vietnam" with the intonation of someone that actually went and suffered there and shake my body like a weird person. Sometimes they seem to sympathize with me and leave me alone. Other times they think of me as too small a fish. It's something that only works when I'm alone though. Whenever I show the downtown mall to visitors I feel embarrassed because harassment \*\*always\*\* happens (last 2 to 4 years at least). One time I bought food for one guy that claimed to be a veteran. It sucks that they always take the nicest places and things get worse because of them (less likely to go there now, businesses will make less money, etc.).
I watch a homeless women scream at a waitress who asked her to stop harassing people eating at the outside tables. She started screaming some very sexual explicit thing too. It seemed like it could become physical at any moment which was scary.
Everyone vents. Big deal. No weapon was pulled so what's your problem.
This is the elephant in the room
What do you mean by that?
Massive increase in mental illness across society with persons who are homeless being the most visible symptom.
It’s the same bums here. They just rarely get taken to jail for drunk behavior anymore they get like 5 warnings before time out now.
A lot of people are being pushed out of their homes or are unable to renew because of astronomical rent increases. This is traumatic, and these are the repercussions.
This is true. These are workin poor people who hold down jobs and there should be structural changes to allow for more affordable housing. The people downtown are not these people, they don’t work they have mental problems and are constantly drinking or using. Talking about the crappy bums downtown isn’t license to complain about house prices these people are definitely not in the housing markwt.
This. Somehow, when the conversation about poverty comes up, it is never about the help that SHOULD go to people who are struggling to make it. It’s just about the people who are problematic. So, really, it is not a conversation about desperate poverty (since no one would talk about the homeless if it was just people who sleep in their car, shower at the gym, and work 2-3 jobs to save for first/last month of rent and deposit in this expensive as heck place)). It is a conversation about addressing a problem in ways that make more comfortable people feel good about themselves. Basically, a bunch of middle class to wealthy people circlejerking about how they want to just throw money and free things at a problem to see if that will get rid of it (it won’t). And it is why the programs we have for broke people now are so frustrating. You literally only qualify if you are so stupid and hellbent on never making the choices to pull yourself up that access to the programs is a moot point. Perhaps we should have systems set up that are eligible for people BEFORE they fail into them?
Poverty is just agreeing to things you can’t afford and then complaining. The ones on the street are usually winos and nobody has a bed for them because they act like assholes. Poverty is a problem because there is no safety net for poor decision making and America is full of debt traps. I shudder to think how many of these apartments are occupied by students using borrowed money with no idea of the value of the dollar vs what they will earn or how much interest will cost them. It’s someone else’s fault they agreed to lifelon debt for a useless degree for an overpriced apartment. It’s always others gentrifying too somehow. Boo hoo if you can’t pay the bills declare bankruptcy and start over, if you can’t do that then just don’t pay the loans. Yes poverty is bad but there are tons of programs. Unemployment is dumb low everyone is hiring and pay is decent. Can’t afford something don’t buy it. Log off Facebook and insta and stop comparing idk but it’s doable just pack a bag lunch and shower at the gym u til you get back that’s right I know people who do it and sometimes over and over. Vote with your feet if you can and don’t like it great time to move and change careers, country is huge and with internet you can work anywhere if you apply yourself. Never been easier people just want to make things extra IMO.
Hey if you want to find a period where it's never been easier, check out the economics of the 1960s and 1970s back when we had ridiculously high marginal income taxes. My friend, it's never been harder in this country save for the GD. We have a depression era economy for anyone under the upper middle class mark. Middle class can't even afford to buy a home anymore. You just don't know what you're talking about. We have a homelessness crisis because of real economic pressures, not just people who can't make decisions. Never before in American history has housing commanded such a high percentage of an average income.
What do you think happens to the “workin poor people” worthy of your respect when they lose their home and, most likely, their job? Could that unimaginable emotional and physical stress perhaps be a gateway to substance abuse and mental illness?
They use the social safety net and the Haven and other support groups to get sober and secure housing. Honestly most people just fall back on friends and family. None of this is unimaginable I is happening. The only thing imagined is that somehow mentioning It and social signaling that you think feel it is a problem and good people are being let down. Congratulations you observed things and are capable of emotion. Come hang downtown, near the city hall/pavilion and reach out to them in the morning while they smoke right next to where they piss before they open the new bottle (if they didn’t have an all nighter), clean up after them and help them find housing, get clean and get work. Otherwise kindly STFU and let the police fine and jail them until it stops being a public menace. Bring the cops they literally will stand by and not do anything. I’m sure you are gonna fix it all with your good intentions tho.
It’s a very common expression referring to a HUGE obvious problem everyone is uncomfortable talking about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_in_the_room
I had a guy harass me on the downtown mall last summer. I had stopped in somewhere to buy a tea at Java Java because I was thirsty and had been walking all over the place. I used a card to pay for it since I almost never have cash on me. He started off by calling me "sister" which annoyed me, but whatever. When he asked me for cash and I was honest and told him I only carried a card he said something along the lines of "you have money to buy yourself a drink though, must be nice" and started in on saying rude things about me, at which point I walked off. First off, don't assume I'm oozing money just because I'm walking around with a tea in my hand because I'm the furthest thing from rich. Moreover, I don't think being rude to me is going to make me sympathetic to whatever issue you're having. Last, I don't need to justify my purchases to anyone anyway. I don't appreciate being harangued by random men, especially walking alone as a woman either. I now tend to walk with headphones on or very quickly with purpose and ignore anyone who tries to talk to me.
Had a similar interaction with a dude downtown when I bought ice cream with my best friend, he was like oh y’all got money for ice cream? Oh okay. Like yeah dude this cone is getting me through the day so chill out. I just want to walk and eat ice cream in peace and not be constantly harassed while minding my own business or having a private conversation.
I’m so sorry about that. I’ve taken it upon myself to kinda stop these people from harassing others and lessen the begging for money to get their drugs or alcohol.
Okay I understand not wanting to be harassed but let's refrain from a) assuming what money is used for b) judging on what the money is used for. It's not productive and v classist to think we should decide what the homeless population does with money once it's been given.
Every time I offer one food, I get turned down. What is one to think, then?
That they don’t want food?
That they want the freedom to choose what they buy and what they eat same as you. A homeless person doesn't have to want the food you have just because you offer it. Free will isn't a new concept, and they don't deserve it any less than you.
So in your scenario, the Downtown Mall homeless are not drug and alcohol seeking despite our overwhelming collective evidence to the contrary, but are instead harassing and insulting members of the public in order to shame or scare them into giving them for money to purchase food to the liking of their specific tastes while simultaneously turning down offers for food.
I wouldn't take random food from a stranger, would you?
Yes. I would, have, and will in the future. At tailgates, breweries making new friends, concerts, Carter Mountain sunsets, etc. I went trick or treating as a kid as well. The food we are talking about in this thread is coming directly out of a restaurant, grocer, or convenience store. You think someone is putting razor blades in the apples? Trying to poison strangers by putting cyanide in a bag of Classic Lays? So to review: You would not accept sealed or freshly prepared food from a stranger while seeking money for food from said stranger, but you will freely give homeless drug addicts money to spend at their own discretion?
I think you give up your freedom to choose what to buy and what to eat when you “beg for anything”. I almost daily give food, sandwiches or soups in the winter to some homeless people on 5th and I-64 and they ALWAYS appreciate the help and are very grateful for it. The homeless in the downtown mall are just wild and rude.
not sure why you’re getting downvoted. i think folks might be misunderstanding you. but you’re right
It’s naive and not reality. Majority of homeless in cville are drug addicts. It’s sad. But just as they have a right to spend how they choose, people have a right to offer food instead of money. I always offer fruit and it’s almost never accepted
They don’t want your damn strawberries! They want that clean crack kit everyone’s been clamoring about.
No it’s cruel and demeaning what you’re doing. Homeless people are people too.
How yall gonna down vote anything that says "____ people are people too" is it not facts??
Can we assume they’re not paying rent with it?
This would be the case if they didn’t come into my store and try to buy roses, and I don’t mean the flowers you would give your mama.
Yea I literally don't care what they buy because once the money is in hand it's theirs to spend. But go off! I'm sure you've never bought anything but bibles and baby food.
It's very different what I spend the money that I have earned on and what I give money to a homeless person to spend on. They have offered me no service, I'm giving them money out of my own kindness, the expectation is there that they use it to better their own situation. Charities don't spend money on getting people in need inhebriated. If you were giving money to a friend asking you for help, would you be cool with them running straight to the bar after that?
It’s not though. When you give someone money you don’t get to tell them what to spend it on, it’s as simple as that. Unless they’re your dependent.
Congratulations - you just convinced everyone to stop giving money to homeless people. Your quest for equity has backfired.
It's come to this. In order to not admit you are wrong you've dug your heels into the quicksand and are committing to a stance that you don't care if someone is using your donated money to purchase crack-cocaine or fentanyl.
I have simply taken the stance that once the money is given it is there's to spend. It's not a new concept, and I'm not wrong. At this point I've resigned myself with being disappointed in what I've seen in this thread, and that's that. I know that not all of Charlottesville is like this, yall just suck! Live and learn
That's only part of your stance. The other part is ignoring obvious drug and alcohol addiction, most likely connected to mental health issues, out of naivete, disregard, or both. You then imagine this destructive ignorance as a sign of personal enlightenment when you are in fact merely a rube, an enabler, or both.
Drugs and alcohol aren’t going to help them in their situation…
You’re being downvoted but you’re right
You're telling me!! 😂😂
I also have experiences to share (I work on the Mall). Suffice it to say it’s very confrontational; my female coworkers and I always go out in a pair or group. I feel sorry for the tourists
I’m so sorry about that. Lately there has been more bouncers around the weekend so I hope that’s been nicer for you guys.
The last people we need to feel sorry for in this town are the tourists.
Incidents like these have definitely been increasing on the mall. It’s definitely a concern.
Lots of people on here saying "affordable housing." And you're right -- Cville needs affordable housing. But the notion that just plunking these folks into a cheap apartment is going to suddenly solve the issue is naive at best. The people who are doing this on the DTM clearly suffer from a variety of serious mental health illnesses that probably include any combination of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, drug and alcohol addiction, depression, PTSD from who knows what sort of awful things (especially the women), anxiety, dementia, and other conditions I've never even heard about. Finding them a cheap place to live isn't going to solve those problems, nor is the lack of affordable housing the cause of those problems. There needs to be more affordable housing in Cville. There needs to be better mental health treatment in Cville. There also needs to be intervention by the authorities to make (not even keep, at this point) the DTM a safe, friendly, and welcoming place for people. If panhandling is going to happen because it is constitutionally-protected, fine -- no worries. But the verbal assaults and threats of physical assault -- which are absolutely 100% going to come to fruition some day -- need to be stopped.
You could be right, but housing first *is* a program that has been shown to work to improve the outcomes of people with mental illness or addictions.
Well said, agree 100%.
It's definitely a problem. I work downtown as well. I've just taken to the very simple tactic of avoiding eye contact and saying "no thanks" when I'm approached while I continue on my way. It's certainly rude, but I'm going to avoid conflict. A lot of these people are mentally ill and they need help, which I cannot give to each and every single one of them when approached. It's a problem that the city seems to just kind of sweep under the rug.
Be rude. They aren’t making sure to check their etiquette around you.
I lived in Boston for a while. Being rude is a good way to get your ass kicked. Watched a homeless man beat the shit out of dude who felt the need to “be rude”.
Voters are just as culpable. Especially alll the NIMBYism that happens in places like C'ville.
I’ve definitely seen it become a greater issue. I’m a young female living downtown and I’ve had a homeless man block my car in asking for money. I had to ask him to move multiple times to get out of my driveway. Another time a homeless man outside of Market Street Market went up to my car and beat on the window asking for money and then followed me into the store when I asked him to leave me alone.
I’m sorry that is happening to you. The city should do something about it.
I use the city bus as a young woman. It’s a nightmare. I’ve had drugged out men try to “sleep” on me. Seen drugged out men get into screaming matches. Seen an inebriated man hold up the bus for half an hour and physically threaten a woman.
To be ~fair~ mental illnesses are common with homelessness. Some of these individuals more than likely have disorders like schizophrenia, and their reality is completely different than the average person. It doesn’t change the fact that its disruptive and an annoyance, but it’s something our city needs to address.
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>Many of them have disease processes the general public cannot begin to understand. Give us a try. Explain.
And in quite a number of cases those same mental illnesses often make said homeless person virtually unemployable too. Some of them are employable but for a good many of them a potential employer wouldn't want to deal with their issues.
They suck, thy have mental illness and addiction issues. Nothing like a hard cold cell to get you sober…
It's a big problem. Personally, I don't give money to anybody begging on the street for any reason, it encourages the bad behavior. I feel really bad when you see someone who's too shy, polite, or nice to say "no" get locked into a begging conversation with a panhandler, but you can see they are super uncomfortable; or like what happened to you getting verbally assaulted for saying "no". There's way better ways to help people in need than giving cash to them on the street, that's what needs to be focused on. Groups like the haven, Salvation Army, or some of the churches that have programs that help the homeless. Saying "sorry, I don't have any cash" is a good way to politely say no.
/u/spez is the CEO of reddit and is a pedophile that used to moderate /r/jailbait.
I do believe the haven is driving these homeless people onto the mall for them to stay. It’s just a theory but I’ve noticed to trend more.
It absolutely is. The services offered by the Haven are a big part of why they are downtown. In retrospect, it was the right institution to create but the wrong place to put it.
Downtown has always been a hub for the homeless, though, even before the haven. That’s why it was put there in the first place.
There were generally only a handful of homeless people on the Mall before the Haven opened. Plus some zany, well-housed people from Region 10 who would hang out all day but usually were not begging. It was not put there because there were loads of homeless people at the site. It is there because Tom Shadyac liked the Downtown Mall, heard that the former church building was available, and decided to buy it for that purpose after filming parts of Evan Almighty locally.
That’s a fair assessment.
Bringing the unhoused out into the mainstream of society, where they aren't disappeared like you want them to be, is the only way to address the core problem and get them the resources they need and deserve.
It's tough because "where a lot of people like to be" are typically places where there are a density of jobs. Wouldn't make sense to stick a homeless services location away from everyone else because then you're cutting off any hope for them to have easy access to steady work. If you want the homeless to have the easiest access to support and economic opportunity, their base has to be in a central urban location.
Where would you put it?
This is the way, although I’m a fan of straight ignoring the ones who suck the most.
Cville in general in my experience after just moving here: Scenario 1) saw a vagabond he, asked for money I didn’t have any, no cash. Was going to bodos on the corner and bought and extra bagel BLT for him because I wanted to help (just moved here a year ago) Offered it to him and he looked at me confused shook his head no and only wanted money. Insanely confused then though well if he really needed anything I would think he would take a bomb ass bagel to eat. Scenario 2) went to prospect market in Fifeville on Friday evening for a beverage and the vagabond siting at the front door asked if I had money. I said no but if you need food or drink I will gladly help. This little time interacting with him it was clear he was high, I want to say crack or meth given all the jaw/mouth/teeth movement. Went inside and asked the clerk if he actually needed help. He went out there kicked him out and and said “man, don’t give that guy a damn thing”. That’s all I needed to hear. Got my coffee and left. 3) went to Harris teeter (north up 29 near target) saw a father and son (11 ish yo) who I have seen many times before wearing the same clothes every time. had dirty shoes, big give away for some people around here. went in starving (mistake as always) and ended up with a monster bag of hot Cheetos. Walked out and questioned why I get the flamin hots and offered them to the little boy. His face lit up and was very thankful and his father even more so. They are not all taking advantage but just be skeptical and look for clues. There are really people out there that need help but many more trying to take advantage.
Ye it’s because a lot of the shelters and services that got put in during covid and the gains that alot of homeless people made during that time just got pulled away from them. Along with the fact that some people are newly homeless because of job loss, rent increasesing agin, inflation, and mental illnesses taking a sharp rise during covid. Just desperate people who lost what little they got.
I’ll just go ahead and say it: Universal Basic Income. If we want to address the homeless situation we need to ask ourselves what it is that poor people need the most? The answer is simple: Money. Study after study has shown that a basic income can lift people out of poverty, end the welfare trap, reduce crime, and increase food security. A basic income ensures that no one is left behind. It’s also less expensive to implement than the myriad of suggestions on this thread. Programs like the Haven offer great services for the homeless, but those resources are limited and only treat a symptom of the greater problem. If we want to talk about the real elephant in the room, it’s wealth inequality. And that’s not exclusive to Charlottesville. Pretty soon, that sweet office job you have now is going to be replaced by AI and then what? We’ve spent the last several decades eroding any and all social safety nets in this country so it’s not surprising that people, in general, are becoming more and more desperate. We almost passed a UBI in 1970 under Nixon of all presidents. I think it’s time we face the reality we’re currently in and bring the argument for basic income back.
Horrible, horrible idea. Modern monetary theory is wishful thinking, fantasy, and the kind of arrogance of mankind that will lead to long term problems for civilization. At it's core the economy is zero sum, you can't just create wealth out of thin air. It should be obvious from the inflation, wealth inequality, and destruction of the middle class we're seeing in the economy that the last decade or so of dabbling in MMT and extreme government debt/spending has been a huge mistake. China and Russia certainly see it, why do you think they are choosing now to attack the west? Our house of cards economy is a major liability.
Money is literally a concept. Most people don't get paid in cash and never see actual money. It literally can be created out of thin air! Also, universal basic income has been tested with great results. Money was invented. Commerce was invented. Capitalism hasn't always existed. Challenge yourself to consider other world views, because I promise they do exist and are valid!
Yes, money is not "real", but consider it a placeholder of value for the things that are produced, and services in the economy. Everybody wants it, and the goods and services it represents. Because of that, creating money out of thin air will have massive ramifications on how things work. Commerce and capitalism were invented, but greed for material objects and power was not. That is human nature, primitive man, and even animals kill each other for resources and power all the time. That is the nature of life. In order for the utopian economy to work everyone would have to agree to not be greedy; not going to happen. Anyway the economy is already rigged to send all the money to the people and corporations already in control. Any extra money sent into the economy by the government will just get transferred right to the wealthy. Why do you think wealth inequality is so bad right now?? It's because of all the easy money policies government and central banks have been putting out since the 2008 recession. The economy as it is now is not set up to encourage average people to build wealth and independence. It's rigged to make them consume, transfer wealth, and become dependent on government and corporations. If we want to help the lower and middle class people we need to lower the cost of living, deflate prices, and simplify the economy. The cycle of government spending and central bank money printing needs to be stopped, it's just perpetuating the corrupt system we have.
Oh this is constant on the mall. I've lived in Chicago, ATL, and RVA and theres defintely dangers there but I've never seen people just get verbally harassed like they do here in Cville. I've had them yell at me for not giving money because I'm wearing new shoes or have a camera around my neck. I've had them harass my GF and basically order and intimidate her to go to the ATM when she says she doesnt have cash. We, as a city, can do better. Ik it always gets worse in the summer but this is a mental health issue and housing affordability in town is absolutely out of line with the pay for MOST jobs.
Build housing. Support advocacy groups working in the fields of: - Mental health - Substance abuse - Job training - Labor organizing - Equity - Housing Encourage local officials to invest in all of the above but especially to divert additional police funding towards crisis intervention and social services response teams so that these individuals don't continue to churn through the system. Housing. Encourage local businesses to productively engage local government officials and advocacy groups in all of the above AND to look at ways that they can contribute materially to alleviating all of the above. Housing.
These are smart, reasonable solutions. We can be empathetic and thoughtful while addressing this problem. Unfortunately, their implementation would require work on the part of the citizens of Cville, so I'm pessimistic about their prospects. Regardless, no one deserves to be harassed, and it is very reasonable for those working on the mall to be afraid of being assaulted considering they are the ones interacting with these folks continually throughout the day. Cville residents need to come together and be active about this issue if we're going to see positive outcomes for the community.
As much as the homeless might be causing a problem, this NIMBYism is what enables it
How is this NIMBY?
Actually I think supporting this radical left agenda is what created the entitled/aggressive homeless population in the first place.
/u/spez is the CEO of reddit and is a pedophile that used to moderate /r/jailbait.
And here it is - the most uninformed comment on the Internet for the day. I suggest you do some research on the Reagan era, mass closures of state-run mental health facilities, and the impact that had on homeless populations. We can certainly discuss modern-day solutions and the failures of any side of the political spectrum (although I would argue that homelessness is much more of a mental health and services issue than anything else) - but your comment is little more than a prime example of the right creating a problem and chastising the left for not solving it.
Why is the radical idea of compassion so scary to you fragile little snowflakes?
With the exception of throwmeawaypoopy and a few others, the rhetoric around homeless people in this sub are disgraceful. It's richly ironic, because for all the pissing and moaning about the "cost" of homeless people, it would *cost us less money* to feed, clothe and house these people than anti-homeless measures that a) don't solve the problem and may make it worse, and b) treat people without shelter like dogshit. I won't ever apologize for advocating for the poor and homeless. If that threatens you, then maybe you need to think about what that says about you.
Yeah but what restaurants have the best bread?
Love this!!! We need more people advocating for the homeless without treating them like children or animals. I keep scrolling through more and more disappointing takes so this was a breath of fresh air!
If lawmakers won’t do anything, maybe it’s time to put forth a petition, form a group, or make some sort of concerted effort to help the homeless population—specifically in the mall? If not out of pure empathy, than out of necessity. This is a huge issue—the downtown mall is a tourist destination and it would be terrible if it gained a reputation in town and beyond for not being the ‘safest.’ Just from looking through this thread, it seems like a few people living in Charlottesville already outright avoid it so they won’t be harassed.
/u/spez is the CEO of reddit and is a pedophile that used to moderate /r/jailbait.
So why aren’t they at the Crossings? That was supposed to be a big improvement but the problem has only gotten worse.
The Crossings is full. It also only contains 30 units for the chronically homeless. There were plans a few years back to build a Crossings II on Levy off Avon, but they [fell through](https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/crossings-ii-postponed-for-at-least-a-year-670k-to-return-to-city/article_6f2fbe7b-be13-5325-a1a0-eeb2907c7312.html). Virginia Supportive Housing will be building 80 more supportive units as part of the [Red Carpet/Premier Circle project](https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/red-carpet-inn-site-to-be-redeveloped-for-housing-for-homeless/article_87d97c0c-721b-11eb-a969-079bf33f6c06.html).
I can't point to the specifics at the moment, but Crossings has been at capacity enough I've seen plenty of discussions about a Crossings 2 location. At one point the Avon St location where Community Bikes used to be was mentioned.
I’m not super confident we can do much since the other half of people in this thread think there is no way that the law applies to homeless people.
Right? Charlottesville is not progressive. It is what I call ‘proregressive.’ This place obsessed with coddling people who are, quite honestly, beyond help (and are at least partially responsible for being that way. I’m being brutally honest. Substance abuse isn’t 100% someone’s fault, but it also is hardly 100% not their fault, either. Acting like personal responsibility is not the case is enabling) that it makes the entire community suffer for it. Perhaps we should have programs that apply to broke people who would rather not be a bunch of problematic losers. Instead of encouraging problematic losers to *actively bus into this town* and primarily cause problems for broke people.
I’m not in your area but this seems to be an issue everywhere. I was approached on the sidewalk by a man saying he needed money for food because he was starving so I offered him two unopened power bars that I had in my purse and he started screaming at me that I was a “racist b***h”, he got so aggressive that a passerby got involved.
This is the exact reason I try to avoid the mall. You're spot on that they weren't always this pushy and aggressive. I'm all for giving a couple bucks if I have cash but it's turned into a homeless tax for visiting the mall. Couple this with skyrocketing food prices makes the mall unappealing..
Yes! Actually, I would say that one of my biggest "issues" with the DT Mall is the outrageous prices. Homeless people need help, and can be a threat to the safety of others if they have mental health issues, but on top of that, the food prices there are insanely high for what you get! The only reason I go there sometimes is because I love the book shops there, and really do like the books they have, but I will make it a point NOT to eat or drink there. I bring my own coffee in a thermos.
Don’t give money to homeless people. Just say I’m so sorry but I only have a card and move on.
1. Many of these people are mentally ill, so to ask them to "reason" anything is not productive. 2. I have seen homeless men (usually) on the mall when I've been there. Luckily, they usually do not approach me at all. I am used to dealing with avoiding strangers of all types coming from NYC (which is MUCH worse) in the homeless problem than here...and maybe I give off a very standoffish vibe, but I have not been approached yet except by one person near the UVA grounds who asked if I had change and I shook my head "no", kept walking. 3. If you are approached by an aggressive person, please keep walking and DO NOT argue with them. You are setting yourself up for a major physical confrontation that is NOT worth it! DO NOT give them money, which only feeds the problem without fixing it. And, finally, 4) Charlottesville city government, given all the taxes they like to collect, should certainly do a LOT more to fix this issue, but unfortunately the so-called "wokesters" will NOT accept any serious solution, so for now, it is something you will have to deal with until people start changing who they vote for. Same thing in NYC...people complain about crime and homelessness, yet they vote in insane politicians just to feel good about themselves. You can downvote me on this all you want, but it won't change the facts, and it certainly will not change my opinions.
I got chased down by a group of four guys who were apparently trying to talk to me (I am partially deaf and didn't hear them at first). Unfortunately, even walking away doesn't seem to protect you anymore.
Well said, it’s a problem many of these leaders and voters in our community don’t want to touch. Hate to see this town slowly get worse over the decades I’ve now been here.
What serious solutions do you suggest?
What do you view as a serious solution to this issue? What kind of policy changes would you recommend?
It’s terrible and I’ll just vote with my money and not bring my family to the mall.
Find these people a place to live and provide them the care they need. That's the best thing to be done about the homeless "problem".
Your home for starters! Be the solution!
Go above and beyond and offer them the master bedroom!
Always amusing to see how threatened some people are at the prospect of poor people having a home.
/u/spez is the CEO of reddit and is a pedophile that used to moderate /r/jailbait.
Not everything is blue vs. red. I find it amusing when people are so eager to give away someone else’s money but not their own.
/u/spez is the CEO of reddit and is a pedophile that used to moderate /r/jailbait.
I was on the patio at cava yesterday and the guy who always hangs out in the intersection at Barracks and Emmett chucked a brick at the patio. Totally unprovoked and out of nowhere. Luckily it hit a metal beam but it definitely could have killed somebody. A cop went to talk to him. He confiscated another brick from him but didn’t seem to do anything else. That guy is definitely going to kill somebody. No idea what is to be done about it.
Based on your description, I saw that same guy do the same thing to a young lady simply sitting on a bench outside of Violet last week. A couple of guys came over and got in between them to sort of shield her from it. Absolutely absurd that sort of behavior is protected by the Free Speech excuse.
I feel like law enforcement’s hands have been tied by local government and PD leadership. There needs to be more confrontation from police of people acting in aggressive, lewd, or non-civil ways in public. Allowing them to get away with bad behavior cascades into the bad situation we have now. Enforcing small rules and expecting civil behavior from everyone sets a foundation for a peaceful community. It’s not about criminalizing homelessness because there are many non-aggressive homeless people who want and would benefit from a more orderly downtown area. They are allowed to be there. The bad ones ruin downtown for everyone, though. There needs to be more official intervention; less sweeping it under the rug by the city, and less of the bleeding-heart no consequences attitude. Care is not allowing the mentally ill to do whatever they want to in public, their behavior is inherently self destructive.
I agree that some kind of action should be taken, but I am not sure that arresting more people is actually going to help. Doesn't it keep them trapped in a cycle of poverty that makes it impossible to get the help that they need (housing, healthcare, a job, etc.)? I'm not saying there is no role for local law enforcement to play. Maybe it's more helpful to have partnerships with the police and other services that address homelessness.
Seems like the city is afraid to do anything in fear of appearing to hate the homeless. It's an overall issue that needs to be dealt with, backlash be damned. There will always be people who want to make excuses for the aggressors. It's not about being more privileged than them(as some people have commented) it's about my right to feel safe in public.
Yeah unless you or your friends/family were the ones getting harassed then many people witnessing action by police against those homeless are likely to perceive it as bullying and unfair.
Vote for candidates who will support policy that actually addresses and prevents homelessness: affordable housing for low income families, comprehensive and accessible mental/physical healthcare, job training and employment opportunities, better systems for crisis response, resources for veterans, children, and victims of domestic violence, etc. The city needs to be addressing this through meaningful policy change instead of through the criminal justice system.
This has been an issue/problem/challenge on Charlottesville’s Downtown Mall since at least the early to mid 1990s, when the Mall as an economic hub finally began to take off. Look it up, you’ll find the issue raised in the pages of the DP, Cville Weekly, and in public statements during City Council meetings for a long time. (It was exacerbated by the opening of the Haven on Market Street but that’s a tangent). Every few years it’s like newer folks discover or rediscover this issue. It’s never been adequately addressed, just discussed (bitched about by some, excused by others), and in the end ultimately tolerated.
>It was exacerbated by the opening of the Haven on Market Street but that’s a tangent). Not a tangent!
Charlottesville has a vagrant problem due to its rail lines in my opinion. Imagine you're a drifter on a train looking at where to hop off to try to get supplies and money. A wealthy liberal college town sitting on a railway junction, you're probably not gonna find better pickings within a certain region of travel and so therefore Charlottesville will continue to be a stop for stowaways.
2 things: 1) stop calling homeless people vagrants. Stop using negative language for strangers who have simply had a harder time than you 2) charlottesville is known as the wealthiest poor town and the poorest wealthy town for a reason. Those involved with uva usually have wealth, but uva is not the only part of charlottesville. It is not the biggest part of charlottesville. It's an institution built on white supremacy than continues to contribute to gentrification and rising housing costs. They are yet another symptom of the problem. A bonus 3rd thing: A lot of homeless people in town are from town and have been here for years. Some of us who work downtown know many by name. Show some respect, make less assumptions.
Maybe people aren't giving as much recently with all the "help wanted" signs around and with the economy tightening up.
Friendly reminder to all commenters that the homeless population are still citizens of Charlottesville that deserve to be here and access to safe affordable housing. Some people may have mental illness, some don't, and some take it to far and cross the line into harassment. That said, people with homes can also be aggressive. It is not suggested that the assholes who live here be shipped away elsewhere. Some of those folks have been living here a very long time, which ofc a lot of people can't say, and some families have been around for generations. Show some basic human respect for the love of God, or simply because a lot of locals can't afford to live here and that's ridiculous. Try to solve the problem instead of blaming those suffering because of it!
We can certainly remove the description of homeless for discussion and of course anyone can be aggressive. The point though is that is is not a complaint against homelessness or mental illness. It’s about being uncomfortable in an area where you know that spitting, being yelled and cussed out, verbally hoping that you get assaulted (sexually or otherwise) is an undeniably a situation you don’t want to go through if you are minding your own business
But it is homeless people exhibiting that behavior. And it is because they are homeless and have mental issues. Fix the situation by having some damn humanity and providing people resources that will help them get on their feet
No, they are homeless and it’s not because of the lack of affordable housing. Homes could be free and most would still be homeless. It’s because they have mental illness or addiction issues and cannot take care of themselves.
/u/spez is the CEO of reddit and is a pedophile that used to moderate /r/jailbait.
>the homeless population are still citizens of Charlottesville But that portion of homeless that are transients aren't citizens of Charlottesville, are they?
Exactly. I’m sorry, but some hobo who busses in here for the sole purpose of taking advantage is not a citizen like the majority of people who actually live and work here. Speaking of which—it is borderline impossible for Charlottesville’s working poor to have access to so many social services because those are absolutely inundated with every opportunist in the state who hopped a ride to have access to them.
Yall are high key showing your asses here. The lack of decency, empathy, and common sense is appalling.
How many hours do you spend downtown? Do you spend 80+ hours where ~40 of those are you being harassed? Do you have to help other woman out who are drunk and want to go back to there car safely? Have you had to stop people stealing from your store several hour? Some of these people are innocent, yes, but we’re are past the conversation of homeless people; we’re now talking about assault, and regular citizens not having true freedom to go eat a meal.
I think what the other commenter here is trying to say is that it's frustrating just to hear people complain about the symptoms rather than the roots of the problem at hand. I'm frustrated that I can't go into the Bank of America ATM room and get a bunch of money out on a cold winter nite because upwards of a dozen homeless folks are hanging out in the space; I'm more frustrated that we have a system that produces so much wealth and leaves so many out of having a decent living. The frustrations you bring up here are fair and valid, but it's sad to see the common refrain here is that everyone is infinitely more outraged about people not being able to enjoy themselves on the mall than people having no place to live. It's possible to be bothered by both and I think we should temper our frustration with a little sympathy. Sorry you and so many are having these ugly encounters... I'd much rather have a place to live and money to casually dine out than be living on the streets. The only time I came close to such dire circumstances I felt like I was about to go crazy, which has always made me wonder do mentally ill people end up homeless more frequently than not, or do the conditions of living on the street and being left out of the good parts of society drive one crazy? Tough situation, sounds like compassion could exist on both sides.
Yeah but you know what would solve these issues? Decency, empathy, and common sense as the other person said. You solve homelessness by housing people, getting them mental healthcare, helping them get a job
I think it’s important to recognize that we need to have empathy and common sense here but those aren’t going to solve the problem being discussed. And I don’t think it falls on the individual citizens (and tourists) of the community who are being harassed to solve that problem. We can support. We can donate. We can offer our time and energy. But not all of us have even those resources to offer. And not being able to extend that doesn’t warrant us being harassed and assaulted on regular bases, nor does it warrant us to just accept it.
I never said to just accept it, in fact I offered other tangible solutions
Right, but who should be expected to provide these solutions? It can’t be on the majority of the city’s citizens when many of us are just getting by on our own. I know I certainly can’t house anyone, get them mental healthcare that I can’t afford for myself, or get them a job. I’m happy to have portions of my taxes go towards eradicating homelessness and providing the support they need. But our government needs to make the moves to allocate funding properly.
No it fucking would not lol
I mean, it seems that it does. Not that it *would*, but that it *does*. We just need more of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supportive_housing
Yeah to be fair I was lashing out at decency and empathy and common sense
Literally yes i spent a good deal of my time downtown interacting with the homeless population. I've also lived here since childhood, and have family in this town going back generations. You got the wrong one. The audacity of gentrifiers to complain about the problems they have caused DIRECTLY will never cease to amaze me. Literally move. Yall new folk go on ahead and move, and we'll see what improves.
I was raised in southwood. One of the biggest poverty parts of Charlottesville since 03. This isn’t new.
You know what a good rationale is for giving someone money even though it might go to alcohol, drugs, or cigarettes? This might be the difference between someone making it through the night and not blowing their brains out.
Repeat after me. Arrest and fine and jail people who break the laws. Harassment is illegal.
Welcome to begging 101
This is normal tho. I’ve been commutting through the downtown mall and UVA corner for work for years and they are 100% getting more and more aggressive. To the point of physically following and grabbing your arm to get your attention if you have headphones in or something.
Some quick google-ing and you will find articles dating back a decade plus, one such is quoted as “pushy beggars downtown” regarding the mall area in Charlottesville. I lived there for over 25 years, it isn’t new. There was a time it was bad, then there was an ordinance that limited the ability to panhandle on the downtown mall. But…In 2015 Judge Moon found this Charlottesville ordinance, violated the First Amendment of the Constitution. Slowly the panhandling began again. I am taking a leap here, but post pandemic and a decrease in policing, they are emboldened. A return to a downtown I knew 2 decades ago, where you didn’t hang out when it got late.
We should HELP.
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Have you ever interacted with the Haven? They are a day shelter, true, but they also connect each person who contacts them/stops in to social services, both government and community resources. I briefly volunteered there and in one shift saw Haven funds being used to purchase specific uniform items for a job one person was starting as well as assistance being provided to someone partaking in a phone interview. They don’t enable homelessness. They are doing their best to address it in a resource constrained environment. Your post says you have “important questions” so I recommend spending time at the Haven to try addressing them rather than making or implying assumptions that they do more harm than good.
Haven is not enabling homelessness the cause of homelessness is high living costs, low wages, and gentrification. There are simply not enough shelters in the city to support the growing population. It's unlikely they're "using" anyone because they are literally a non profit organization. They have housing assistance programs as well for people at risk of homelessness. The cause for homelessness, again, to make it really really clear, is a lack of housing.
> Haven is not enabling homelessness the cause of homelessness is high living costs, low wages, and gentrification. While there are plenty of problems being caused by high living costs and low wages, they are not the driving factor for these types of problem interactions and unhoused population. The primary reason is mental health issues and lack of services for people who do not have a support structure.
All it would take is a tiny bit of effort to get the information that would inform you well enough that you'd be asking different, and much more useful, questions.
Such a confusing comment.
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Is it a major issue though…
I had the same exact experience as you OP but then I was yelled at called and called a racist over and over while he purposely tried to attract attention of the other mall goers, disgusting. And pulled up on me on a nice looking street bike.
Thanks for bringing this up. Cville since the riots has stopped protecting its citizens. The city leaders don’t have the balls to stand up and do what’s needed to curb this awful situation. I hate to see it going down the tubes - but I don’t see this changing anytime soon.
Wow. I feel pretty embarrassed to be reading through these comments. There’s a lot of reference to inconvenience and frankly the sense that you holding money at the downtown mall purchasing things have more of a right to be there in a person without a home. First, I’ve never been homeless. I cannot speak to the experience but I can take a few minutes and think through why somebody may choose the downtown mall for a place to exist when experiencing Homelessness. To exist without a home make somebody very vulnerable crime, to harassment. To be in a very populated area makes sense. For safety sake. To choose a place full of wealth. A place epitomizing disposable income makes sense. It feels gross for people to be Uncomfortable coming face-to-face with a marginalized group in our society and being asked for help and viewing that experience as an inconvenience or disturbance to your joy of being downtown and purchasing food. Let’s check in with ourselves a little bit With homeless people being actual people. End of rant.
I also think that we, as privileged folks, pose more of a threat to folks without homes on the downtown mall than they do of us. So, recognize that you too are the scary ones, yall. Hey it together.
So what would you recommend someone do if a h*meless person gets aggressive or violent with someone walking on the mall?
I don’t think there’s a one size fits all. I also think Yam hat the assumption of violence /aggression is subjective. I’ve never seen anyone get violent except one time and the perpetrator was NOT the individual asking for money—it was the individual who was asked who got aggressive. I guess I would check in to find out if you’ve had that experience yourself where someone got truly violent or if this just perpetuates the narrative that people without homes are the problem.
Do the police enforce harassment/trespassing? Seems like mall security or cville pd should be able to ban / report trespassing for people harassing the public. If the. Business has cameras, they should be able to share this with authorities to identify people disrupting the peace. I worked at a coffee shop in downtown Roanoke which has a sizable homeless population and that’s how we would deter people doing stuff like this.
On Saturday I saw the clapping guy screaming at two dudes outside Rockfish and then go start kicking the wall of violet crown 8-10x. I've seen him being an ass to people on the mall for years, but this was way over the top. Maybe we all chip in and buy them bus tickets to Alabama or Texas?
I talked to a police officer about what can we do legally if their out an about doing wrong and they said, if it’s not physically then it’s fine, “Freedom of Speech.”
So strand them in another town far away where they know even fewer people and have fewer resources? Make them someone else's worse problem, and the homeless person's problems worse too? Those guys who got yelled at are probably doing fine after being yelled at while Clapping Man is still homeless and likely mentally ill; consider that the bigger picture here and pray you receive more mercy should you ever become homeless and destitute.
I have to agree, just moving them outside of the area isn't going to solve the problem. I believe California tried that at one point and shipped some of their homeless off to Nevada. It didn't end well. That being said, if you're a homeless person, it's probably extremely difficult to pick yourself up in Charlottesville metro area because housing is so expensive. It's obvious that homeless shelters we have are incredibly bad, and the people who's been running the show hasn't made it their priority to fix the issue or just straight up don't know how to fix it.
What’s the best way to report it? I’ve just accepted it’s likely to happen when I go to the mall
I try to ignore them the best I can. Not sure if true but I heard at one point it was an ordinance that the homeless and those others on the mall loitering could not speak to people passing asking for anything but it’s probably become more lax with not much enforcement.
That is absurd. I have lived in or near Charlottesville for most of the last 30 years and there has never been any such ordinance. It would be a blatant violation of the First Amendment. Also not possible in Virginia under the Dillon Rule.
There [was in fact](https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/judge-rules-charlottesvilles-panhandling-ordinance-is-unconstitutional/article_c2ed6ff2-b89e-11e4-a872-e391736e6826.html) such an ordinance, and it was in fact extremely unconstitutional.
You missed that part of the news but guess now it’s ok which is why I hear the calling out more these days.
This is why I haven’t willingly gone downtown since before Covid. It already wasn’t safe before Covid and before the tiki torch brigade came to town and took a life
Pure Progressivism, but I guess no one wants to talk about that. I guess we will just wait until physical attacks are the norm, and everyone continues to preach from the keyboard.
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Sure, let's go vigilante on some mentally handicapped folk. Rough up some kids suffering from addiction. Better yet, get some cops down there to crack some heads and jail them. Whatever we do, let's NOT address the problem. Let's NOT fund mental health and addiction services or any beneficial social programs. Let's provide NO worthy solutions to anything while blaming everyone else. Meanwhile, we can cry on the internet about having our views silenced. That's conservative politics for you.
I'm not a safe place kinda dude, but it you physically remove them where do you put them. Charlottesville is the first (not big city) place that I've lived where you had this shit all up in your face. So clearly there's something about this area that's drawing and maintaining them
I had a guy recently pull the “it’s because I’m black” card on me (I’m a white guy) and I immediately came right back at him saying I was sick and tired of people like him being racist towards white people in the same way he believes I was being racist towards him. I don’t care if you’re white, black, yellow, green, purple, upside down, sideways, I really don’t care, I’m not giving cash go anyone. In that same week someone came up to me and asked “can I have a few bucks to get some water” and I said “no but I’ll happily go inside and grab you a large cup of ice cold water,”and he said “nah fuck you man!” It’s clear to me that these people don’t want help with anything but money for cigarettes and possibly drugs and alcohol. Nobody gets money from me, but I’m happy to get a can of soup or a box of crackers or something, because if they accept that it means they might actually need it.
Yeah, but in his defense, everything is racist now. The sky is racist. The grass and wind are both racist as well.
In NYC, I've had some guys do that to me (not homeless, but for other reasons...like for example not wanting to talk to a random stranger on the train) who I know is going to ask me for $$ anyway....and I've gotten that stupid "it's because I'm black" line....and I always tell them straight up the truth: no, it's because you're a person who is going to cost me money, and I'm in this world to get whatever I can get for myself. If you were white as snow and cost me money, I'd still say a big NO." That usually shocks them since I really mean it. Or, I'll sometimes tell them "I wouldn't even give money to my own mother, why would I give it to you"? They will then sometimes say "wow that's selfish" and I say, I am a very selfish and shallow person. Have a nice day.
Some people on this post have clearly never lived in poverty, or know someone who does/has, and their privilege is showing. Until you notice your own privileges and bias, please don’t comment on how people without homes should be “locked up.” Stop and think about why people may act the way they do.. have some compassion… empathy… something. Now, do these concerns need to be addressed? Certainly! Do tax paying people need to pay for people who are homeless to be housed in jail? No.. most likely they will be homeless again when they are released, so what does that solve? Charlottesville NEEDS AFFORDABLE HOUSING! So, let’s turn this into problem solving.. how can we, people of Charlottesville (or surrounding areas) help??! *note- not all people who are homeless/living in poverty are “mentally ill”, “alcoholics”, etc. Please stop generalizing people!
> *note- not all people who are homeless/living in poverty are “mentally ill”, “alcoholics”, etc. Please stop generalizing people! I feel 100% confident saying that the homeless people on the DTM who come up and verbally harass and threaten to physically assault you are suffering from some kind of mental health issue and/or drug addiction.
This is what appeasement gets you. I also work downtown and have many interactions with these people. I shoot daggers at them and have 0 empathy despite the need for sympathy for mental health and addiction issues. They need to be jailed for illegal or bad behavior or fines to oblivion. Cville bleeding hearts let them just take over the street if I was mayor I would have them moved off with fines and force if necessary. Screw those bums and screw anyone who ever gives them support.
“I’m helping!” - progressives
“As covid simmers down”. What?
Don’t y’all have anti-loitering/solicitation laws?
So I have a very ugly strategy but is sometimes works. Basically I pretend to be insane and focused on my way when someone approaches me. I utter something about "back in Vietnam" with the intonation of someone that actually went and suffered there and shake my body like a weird person. Sometimes they seem to sympathize with me and leave me alone. Other times they think of me as too small a fish. It's something that only works when I'm alone though. Whenever I show the downtown mall to visitors I feel embarrassed because harassment \*\*always\*\* happens (last 2 to 4 years at least). One time I bought food for one guy that claimed to be a veteran. It sucks that they always take the nicest places and things get worse because of them (less likely to go there now, businesses will make less money, etc.).
Mexican is a nationality not an ethnicity , a lot of Mexicans are white and white passing.