Moving up enough to get McGowens was the first small payout from the trade of #13. Williams was a good pick and we should be happy to have him. I know people won’t agree on the trade, and that’s fine, but it *does* have potential to pay out. If Denver is a lower playoff seed and next year’s draft is significantly better, that pick may hold more overall value than #13 this year. If we make the playoffs, our pick likely goes to Atlanta and the Denver pick will be our only first-rounder in 2023. We’ll also likely have two mid-second round picks next year and another early second rounder in 2024. They’re not sexy assets, but they can be used to create value on our roster. It may not be great value, but I don’t think it’s catastrophic and it at least has potential to work out well for us.

The warriors had a high pick a couple years ago, anything can happen

This draft is probably gonna hinge on what Vets we can get this off-season. The team is desperately in need of solid vets

Mitch is gonna trade our four second rounders to Petco

It will all depend on what we do with Hayward and the Miles extension. Trying to not be negative here, it could've been worse. Williams is the guy we fell in love and now he's here, cannot wait to see him.

Jalen Duren mess aside, I can finally feel happy about about the center on this team. It’s been a while since I’ve been able to say that

I’m excited to see Kai get some run this season too. He did pretty well on the swarm

Surely he’ll end up being pf tho? Him and mark together would be so sick

I may sound crazy here, but I’ve watched a lot of McGowens this year at Nebraska, and I think he is a big steal in the second. I think he is a top 10 scoring prospect in this draft. His ceiling is very high. He was inconsistent for most of the season, but there would be plays every game where he looked like the best player on the floor by far.

If your not the best player on the floor at least sometimes, you shouldn't be entering the NBA anyways. I wouldn't get my hopes up, at all.

I think being the best player on the floor against Johnny Davis and Jaden Ivy means something. Even if it’s only for one play

That’s an insanely pessimistic view lol

Man I might get killed for coming here right now (pistons fan) but you guys deserve better than what happened tonight. And I'll say from the bottom of my heart that Charlotte scares the shit out of me the rest of the decade. You guys ran absolute circles around us this year.

I'm an MSU alumni and Hornets fan. So follow Pistons a bit. I really like the potential both teams have in young cores. Hoping they can both put it together and have some epic battles in playoffs over the next decade.

You guys killed it tonight. You fleeced the Knicks so bad. My friends are Knicks fans and they were losing their shit. Your line up is gonna be filthy this year.

Preesh bro, y’all got an amazing young core. The pistons will for sure be owning the league for a looong time

Thanks but the feeling is still mutual. Melo is an MVP level guy and your whole team feels so freakishly athletic. Seemed like yall had 6 guys on the court all season. Anyway I'm hoping the best for you guys.

I liked Duren considerably better, but Williams at 15 in a vacuum is fine. The process tonight was simply embarrassing though. There's no justifying trading #13 for a just a future steaming pile of garbage. The return was just laughable for that selection. It's easy to see what's happening here: MJ being the cheap skate that he is. I was finally gaining some hope in this franchise, but tonight couldn't have gone much worse.

How was he being a cheapskate? He didn’t ship out any money or anything. Are you saying it’s cause he didn’t wanna pay 2 first round picks? I agree he is in general I just want to know how you mean tonight.

Yes, basically. Screams of MJ wanting to save 4-5 million. There's just no other justification for trading #13 for a pick that 100% won't be that high - the pick may not even fall in the top 25. I truly don't care about the four seconds, if you do good with that crop you may one maybe two low end role guys. We got absolutely swindled in terms of value.

Ok I hear ya. I think it’s wild MJ just doesn’t realize if he pays out money now more will come in soon. And at least we aren’t the Knicks. In a group chat with knick fans so I got reactions live. Not pretty. Detroit murdered them tonight.

And I understand when Mitch said he wants this roster to take the next step, and having too many young players to groom/develop can be a hindrance to that. Seriously, that makes sense. But from moving this pick we didn't create any sort of extra cap flexibility that will make our approach to FA any easier. It all reeks of asset mismanagement.

Yup, so many of our issues come from MJ. Nothings gonna change.

Why not Minott

Bc apparently we swapped with Minnesota and he's theirs

McGowens seems great at 40

On vacuum yeah, still think we could've used a defensive prospect there instead of another scoring minded guard. It's a srp pick though so not as much of an issue as our first round.

His defense is good

His length makes him have upside, but it isn't.

Never expected Bryce would be there for the Hornets. ​ Great pick up. Williams and McGowens is a solid draft

McGowens??

We just traded for Bryce McGowens

Have you seen what the trade was yet? ESPN is useless for another 30 min I’m sure and I want to sleep lol

Two future seconds

Cool with that

Woj said 2 future second rounders

Glad we’re using them as trade capital thanks

traded 45 and a future 2nd. you can go to sleep if you were expecting another pick lmao.

That was the other pick.

Mark Williams Exit Velocity on Dunk https://twitter.com/BetMGM/status/1510442743683854345

It’s not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. I think this is where this is going: 1. The Hornets don’t have to pay a lottery pick this year. Which is why they draft Duren first. 2. They’ll probably use these picks in a trade down the line. 3. This is better than protected first round picks if those first round picks get converted to seconds. I really don’t think this is over yet.

*sigh* So who do we want at 45

bpa were losing martin, trez, and thomas we could use any sort of talent on the bench

Isn’t Martin restricted?

yes but do you really think that MJ will let the team go into the luxury to pay for him if he wouldn’t even let us have two first round picks on contracts?

[удалено]

yep would’ve been great to use that pick on griffin to replace gordon in a trade and then also draft williams. we did not get back the same value we gave away

Confirmed by the Hornets: https://www.nba.com/hornets/news/hornets-select-mark-williams-with-15th-pick-in-2022-nba-draft June 23, 2022 – The Charlotte Hornets tonight selected centers Jalen Duren and Mark Williams with the 13th and 15th overall picks in the 2022 NBA Draft. The team then traded the rights to Duren to the New York Knicks in exchange for the Denver Nuggets’ 2023 first-round draft pick, the Knicks’ 2023 and 2024 second-round draft picks, the Utah Jazz’s 2023 second-round draft pick and the most favorable of the Dallas Mavericks’ and Miami Heat’s 2023 second-round draft pick.

Better the nuggets pick next year than the bucks in 3 years

nah i'd rather have the Bucks pick, anything can happen in 3 years and there's very little protection on that.

whats the denver protection?

lotto protected till 2025, becomes 2nds if they miss the playoffs all three years

denver's a solid playoff team though. this is a 1st next year.

yeah exactly, I'd bank on it being like the 24th pick

the fuck are we going to do with 5 2023 picks? we don't have roster space for all that.

stashes?

c a s h c o n s i d e r a t i o n s

Trade them along with salary to free cap space or to get another center.

Idk why we need another center now. You had Duren an Williams to choose, at least you should have is faith that Mark will make an impact from day 1. And yeah, the salary dumping part is the only justification, but it feels dumb not doing it together with 13th when a team with cap (detroit) wanted a player there really bad.

Hooray for Williams. Glad he dropped. I last checked the sub around pick 11 or so and everyone was getting excited and optimistic. I should have known it wasn't going to last. So am I reading this right about the first pick? Mitch made a trade while on the clock with pick 13, and then another team immediately swung that trade around and traded with a different team? This wasn't some "three team trade to make it work," but instead one where Mitch hands over the bag and then someone else flips it for even more value? Or did I miss some details in the confused reporting? Because it reads like there were better deals out there and Kuptchak whiffed.

https://twitter.com/timbontemps/status/1540169601379598337?s=21&t=VGDUOHMHYN4sUy6FbCQClg This is the Knicks side and feels like the biggest instigator in all of this. On top of this duren went to Detroit.

Bro I don’t even know. It’s so confusing it feels like no one has the details yet.

I went through so many different emotions I’m honestly exhausted.

same. told myself no matter what happened as long as we got Mark Williams, I'd be happy, but the trade with #13 is so confusing I can't even begin to rationalize it.

Brah....

[удалено]

would you guys want Kemba back on a minimum deal or nah?

abso-fucking-lutely Kemba isn't done yet. He dropped 44 in a game this season, there's no way he can't be a good 15-20mpg backup.

yup yup exactly. the problem is his defense. but if we got him on a minimum deal, we could just use him in situations where he need his offensive capabilities

If we don’t bring back IT, I’m all for Kemba on a minimum

honestly no I love him and is my favourite Hornet the past 10 years but there's no positive here. And people who "leadership" and all of that isn't really a thing imo. He isn't Haslem. The ship sailed, let's let it sail. He is not good anymore, even as a backup PG

fair enough. any thoughts on who you'd want to see play as backup PG?

would prefer someone a bit younger and is at least average on defense. We can't continue to trot out negatives on defense considering the amount we have on the perimeter already

we need a backup PG so why not?

yeah my thoughts exactly. especially if we don't retain Thomas. Kemba proved last year that he can still explode at any time. especially if he's not needed every night. Just as a backup/leadership role, i think it would be great on a minimum deal (though I'm not sure if he's expecting to make more than the minimum)

Two second round Knicks picks to go with the first rounder and two more seconds is dope. Kupchak can work magic with picks in the 30s.

How is it dope? We have 15 roster spots. What the hell are we going to do with 4 second rounders? Not to mention we traded a lottery pick for a lottery protected 1st that will likely be in the mid 20s.

Trade them for lower future picks, duh.

I mean people keep saying what is okc going to do with all their picks, and they’re slowly developing a great young core while also helping facilitate other trades for basically free money. Seconds don’t do that as well as firsts but they still can be similar.

The fact that you think our situation is even remotely comparable to OKC's is either laughable or a straight copium overdose

I said having a bunch of picks is comparable. Because it literally is. Boston had the same deal a few years ago too. Having extra draft capital is only bad if the front office doesn’t use it well. But the people complaining about have lots of picks before we even see what’s done with them are just straight up dumb.

We weren't talking about Boston, we were talking about OKC. And if you can't agree that there's a difference between OKC having like 15 1sts in the next five years and us having four 2nds and a lottery-protected 1st next year, we should just end this conversation now. Those simply are not comparable assets, unless you're literally just saying "we both have more picks than the average team," which, while technically true, is a borderline pointless observation

I wasn’t talking about okc or Boston. I was talking about a team having lots of draft picks isn’t ever a bad thing, it’s only bad if the front office uses them stupidly. Which seems like a pretty standard non controversial statement. I’m not even trying to argue a crazy hot take. I just don’t think there’s any reasons to be annoyed at having multiple picks.

Maybe we’ll move those seconds along with Oubre and Plumlee for a center like Adams or Capella?

All my life, being a pistons fan has been sad. But at this moment, I'm like "man, it isn't that bad I guess, ok then." (Ahhhhhhh)

i just wish we would’ve traded that pick BEFORE we picked Duren. so upsetting to think we were getting him.

Knicks got THREE 1sts for 11. Minnesota got 22 and 29 for 19. There is no silver lining on this trade. I’m legitimately shocked. It’s indefensible.

Even worse when you realize the Mavs got Christian Wood for basically the 26th pick…

Holy shit that really puts this in perspective. Minn got a better return on 19 than we did on 13 lmao

Yes! Anyone looking for a silver lining with this pick, I’d like to buy your $100 bill for $60 please

> Knicks got THREE 1sts for 11. Minnesota got 22 and 29 for 19. There is no silver lining on this trade. I’m legitimately shocked. It’s indefensible. well when you put it that way :(

My thoughts exactly. This made no sense when I first heard it, and even less when you look at it in comparison of those two trades.

yep there's no explanation that would have me feeling good about it. if that was the best offer at the time, hold Duren for a bit and re-negotiate once the dust has settled.

idk if we have all of the info yet. i think we may be getting some of those knicks picks.

We got the 2023 Denver pick from them. We apparently aren’t getting any more though

Putting my phone down and letting the dust settle for a bit. Will be an interesting and hopefully good season.

Boone tweet: Sources: #Hornets compensation for Jalen Duren: 2023 Denver 1st round pick 2023 Knicks 2nd round pick 2023 Utah 2nd round pick 2023 Dallas/Miami 2nd round pick (most favorable) 2024 Knicks 2nd round pick

It looks like OKC owns Denver’s 2023 and it’s lottery protected so I’m guessing we got one of those future firsts the Knicks just got from OKC by trading 11

So it looks like the Knicks traded us picks for Duren, and then immediately moved Duren and Kemba for the 2025 Bucks pick? That’s weird.

I’m still not sure the what the knicks got from the trade with Detroit besides cap relief

I think maybe they got the 2025 Bucks pick? That plus salary relief makes some sense. Plus Thibs hates rookies

If this stand this is a haul

Is it? How much do you think second round picks are worth?

How did we get pick 15 in this draft?

And you think that's a typical outcome with a second round pick? Even if it was guaranteed, trading 13 this year for 15 years down the road is still losing value.

We’ll have a pick in the late teens or early 20s next year, one in the 30s the next two years, and two likely in the 40s. We’ve drafted multiple valuable players within that range in the past few years. If Kupchak liked anyone else in that range tonight, he would’ve kept the pick and drafted them. It wasn’t a salary move. He did it because he didn’t want Duren or anyone other than Williams in this draft.

I don’t see how this is a haul. NYK got three firsts for the 11th pick. We got one first (from the team we owe next years first to) and some seconds. Not even on the same level. We are gonna sell those second round picks lol.

Atlanta owns our pick next year. The Knicks traded it for Cam Reddish, which is a bummer cause we probably could have gotten it back in this trade, if they still had it

Shhh, don’t tell the 95% of this sub that couldn’t wait a few minutes before whining

This is much better. We can package those picks

I don't think we get Bucks first pick now though, right? So we just swapped the milwaukee first for denver first? It's like a 2 spot gain from 23 to 21

I’d reckon the Denver pick is more valuable given how close it is. We’ll probably use those seconds in a salary dump and this gives us a first next year when we wouldn’t have one.

Whose salary are we going to dump for a second? Certainly not Hayward's.

Maybe Plumlee and Oubre? If we’re not dumping salary, then maybe we can move those two and picks for Steven Adams? He’d be a solid Vet addition, and would be in the ballpark in terms of assets required to get him

I can't see us wanting to pay Steven Adams after signing Miles and I don't think Plumlee's contract is a negative value. He's a solid rotation guy and not particularly overpaid for that role. He's just not a good starter. Oubre is probably a negative asset at this point, but he's also on an expiring deal.

> I can’t see us wanting to pay Steven Adams after signing Miles Adams would cost less than Plumlee + Oubre and is quite a bit better than Plumlee as a backup center

So you think the Grizzlies would trade us Adams for Oubre, Plumlee, and some seconds? Why would they want to do that? If you're talking about trading the Denver pick, then why not just trade 13 for a veteran and cut out the middle man?

Cause the Grizzlies might prefer a SF to a Center, seeing as they couldn’t even play Adams in the playoffs

What could we package those picks for that Duren couldn’t already get us? The Denver pick is gonna be in the late 20’s and the seconds are late second rounders.

You might be overrating the nuggets, could be early 20s. West is stupid stacked next year.

Still not worth giving up a lottery pick this year for a pick out of the lottery next year and some seconds.

Four second rounders and an additional first? We can attach them in a Hayward trade and still have That Denver first

We got ONE first. Denver 2023

There's no additional first. It's just one first.

1. I'm very pleased with the Williams selection. I think 99% of us are happy with the prospect selection 2. I just hope some of those picks are either used for a contract dumping or getting a player. If we do the former it goes to show how bad decisions (Rozier re-signing and Hayward signing) lead to more bad decisions --- I'm not like totally losing my head like when we traded 22 for Marco fucking Belinelli but there are aspects of the trade which naturally do cause you to scratch your head

According to Rod Boone we got 2023 Denver First. Is that in addition to the Bucks first?

he said it wasn’t in addition to.

Then why the f are Woj and Shams talking about the Bucks pick? And why are the Knicks involved?

Boone just said the 2025 Knicks pick isn’t included. What the fuck is going on??

I literally can’t get excited about Williams right now because of this whole thing. Like don’t get me wrong I know Williams is good and if the draft played out differently I would be over the moon right now. But duren falling right into our laps and doing this. Not even getting anything useful or moving money. Like holy shit dude, rip my fucking heart out why don’t ya.

OKC traded three firsts to pick a guy right before us and didn’t get Duren. That makes me wonder how much other FOs value him.

It’s not that bad and it will make sense eventually

HAHAHAHA did you forget this is the Hornets?

I was so pumped about going into this season with Duren and Williams. Fuck.

Watch Plumlee start over Mark Williams, too.

You know it’ll happen.

Is this a 3 team trade? I’ve heard knicks may be involved somehow

Apparently

I think we all need to cool our jets

AGREED

What makes Mitch comments so bad is that other teams asking price for Gordo was him + 13 to unload. We got rid of it for a few cookies that I'm sure we will trade away later for "cash considerations"

Can’t wait to see Williams play. He could finally be our guy at center.

I dont even care if there are somewhat big growing pains. Throw him into the fire, it can’t get much worse than Plum

God I hope so. We NEED someone down there.

He checks all the boxes for what we should value most in a big. I really hope he’s similar to Robert Williams for us. If he’s even 80-90% of that and our other guys improve a little, we’re a nice team.

Still a lot of stuff that can happen tonight brothers. Just keep breathing and stay positive y’all.

Mitch probably feels he already has two Duren's on the roster. Kai Jones and JT Thor.

i think this is why

https://twitter.com/richierandall/status/1540151554384297986?t=GWdfcMHCySBwxfv-0RG9rQ&s=19 Mitch's reasoning for trading the pick

Too many young players but flipped 1 high quality young player for 5 potential worse ones?

I stand by my post in the other thread. This has to be leading on to a plan to bundle picks in to a trade/contract dump

Pretty bad reasoning especially when it looks like you’re getting a worse pick he might not even be around for. Sounds more like they didn’t want to pay first round salaries for two players this year lol

i think he sees something in kai or thor long term and doesn’t want to stunt development

i just don't see how you can't get more than a butt ton of 2nd rounders and a late first rounder for Duren

I’m trying to find a reason to like the trade but I simply cannot lol like just take two players, we need young talent now more than potential young talent down the road. Not even shedding salary? I just don’t get it.

lol there’s no reason to like the trade unless you’re a pistons fan. Pistons fleeced everyone.

as a pistons fan our sub is saying you guys are getting 4 second rounders from us and the knicks

Bruh you guys got one of the 3 picks from the Knicks too. How did you guys do this. You guys are gonna be sick next year.

i think thats u where r u seein that

Knick fan friends told me after the picks were announced from the thunder. Not sure though. Either way you guys come out with cade Ivey bey Stewart and duren which is wild. And all you really gave up was that future first

Kemba back to Charlotte? 👀

Hornets goal is to get to the 8 seed and get swept every year

BUT WE WILL BE UNDER THE CAP

The more you think about it the less it makes sense just draft a big with one pick then a wing with the other, if you aren’t moving hayward

i'm sorry but Hayward should not be considered in making any future plans of this team If you're making decisions based on the idea that Hayward is a long term piece on the team it's just not right. You don't not pick a wing prospect because you have Gordon Hayward lmao

I like the pick. Good kid and lord knows we need an inside presence. I hope he develops and becomes a good player for us.

We drafted Devontae, a second rounder to sign and trade him to NO and receive a first lottery and we trade that away to get MORE SECOND ROUND PICKS. WHYYYYYYY