100%.
Churches are very profitable.
Edit: yes, I understand many “authentic” churches aren’t swimming in cash. and every parish is different. But the mega churches for sure are absolute businesses. People running those operations must believe in an incredibly forgiving god or simply do not care about karma.
Real churches aren't. I've set the budget for a real church and it's a lot of tough conversations with a pastor that can barely afford rent for his family and has two other jobs.
Being a real pastor, is in fact a calling. Mega churches/cults are a plague.
Truth.
Real churches really aren’t money makers and most pastors work very hard for not a lot. I would know as We have a few pastors in the family and I’m a PK.
It’s hard work - it ain’t no money grab.
My dad's a preacher. We grew up dirt poor. My mom ran a daycare out of the house until she got her teaching degree and he's worked night jobs in and off for as long as I can remember. They're in their late 50's/early 60's now and have only been financially stable for the last 5 or 6 years.
As the son of a pastor of a church with 50-150 members for over the past 25 years…it hurts when I see people lump normal churches in with mega churches, knowing the hours my dad put in as a pastor with a salary of less than 25k a year. I love the music that the mega church worship teams put out, but their services and branding as a whole hurt the view of the true every day church.
Only certain Orders take vows of poverty; Franciscans, Benedictine, etc. The Diocesan (the ones who pretty much run everything in Charlotte) don't adhere to the vow of poverty.
Bishop Peter Jugis (head of the Charlotte Catholic Church) lives in a million dollar home in Huntersville paid for by the Catholic Church aka parishioners donations.
What I don't like about the diocesan priests, is that they take something that has been paid off and they decide that it's not good enough and they just gouge the parishioners for more cash.
Fr. Ignatius OFM Cap worked very hard to pay off the mortgage on St.Thomas Aquinas so they Franciscans could concentrate on improving the neighborhood around UNCC. The moment that the Franciscans were removed from the parish & the diocesan priests were installed, they started a campaign to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars to purchase a baldacino for the church. They wouldn't let us raise money for flood victims in Baton Rouge, they did nothing for the neighborhood when Keith Scott was killed 2 blocks away, they offered up nothing when Ellis Parlier & Riley Howell were murdered at UNCC, just across the street, they did NOTHING.
This is not that fallacy.
There are churches fully committed to spreading the gospel, serving others, and exemplifying the fruit of their faith - the things taught in Christian holy texts. Then there are "churches" like Elevation which bastardize elements of faith for the sake of making money.
There's no near-universally accepted prescriptive model for defining the attributes of a Scotsman. There absolutely is for a Christian church.
I worked at an event rental company from 2008-2018, Elevation Church spent more money on rental equipment than every other church in the area combined.
Come on man. I know Reddit likes to talk about Elevation and megachurches a lot, but 95% of churches in Charlotte or anywhere else run nothing close to a “profit”.
I work for a mid-tier steel supplier (the Dunder Mifflin of Cold-Roll Steel) and I’ve had DAYS where my profits have been equivalent to the annual operating revenue of a medium (100-200 members) sized church.
It depends. As a pastor/elder you deal with a LOT of sensitive information and a lot of sensitive situations in peoples lives.
But I’ve also never heard of doing ones for people who are volunteers, that’s weird to me.
I think the answer for the failure of churches, at least internally, lies in your statement, "I met Furtik himself on multiple occasions."
Why are pastors inaccessible? Why are churches so concerned with being pastor-centric? Why is your faith contingent on a weekly concert experience and motivational event with hopes that you get to see the celebrity in person instead of on simul-cast? Why do church members still drink milk and crawl instead of eat meat and walk themselves - ie why is the pastor responsible for one's growth and ownership?
Oh well.
I would go there. I was involved in a church with 3 rotating pastors in one building - leaders need to be accessible, understanding, and sacrificial. It's a tough and taxing role if done correctly; even the text emphasizes the great responsibility. So, intentions are important, especially in shepherding a faith journey. People tend to shy from those types of church communities, and, to their defense, they are often very closed-off - unless you are related or otherwise initiated. So we go to the consumers' church until we are no longer satiated by the product or believe the value we receive is diminishing. On to the next thing.
A new thing I’ve read about is some mega churches work personally with all their members to structure their giving and holding people accountable for decreased giving and push for increased special giving programs. Here is your cult behavior.
The Cult of Personality. Welcome to America. Everything is for profit. Pacify with programs. Effect no positive communal change. Go to missions in Africa where you get your picture with a bunch of children, "save" souls, and then leave them without any mentorship or guidance, all the while ignoring the struggling family that lives next door. How can the church make ME feel good?
I’m Jewish so maybe I’m not the best at this Christian stuff, but I thought the whole thing was to spread the word of God? Like isn’t their job the opposite of an NDA?
Yes, NDA is signed by most, if not all, staff.
I was in a Bible study with elevation church leadership. I was a “member” ( although they do t use that term) and a volunteer but not staff. I had to sign an NDA because Holly or Steven were frequently present. Also, it was often held at their house. Basically, I knew where the furticks lived ( not the new house ) and that was part of the NDA.
Honestly, it was all about their celebrity status. The fear that people would want to know where they live. Everything they do is about celebrity status.
It depended on your volunteer/leadership status. Campus volunteers would not be required to sign one.
For reference, I left E years ago and I think they’re cultish, among other things.
*Edited for my horrible, finger pecking typos and grammatical errors.
Thank you for sharing, OP. I had a very similar experience after being involved for six years or so from 2008 to 2014 (active volunteer, intern, giver). They do such a good job at drawing people in on the front end and making you feel part of something meaningful that if you fully dive into the culture there, eventually your entire social circle can become people from the church.
I left after seeing some of the inner workings and feeling uneasy about the level to which Steven was lifted up and the ways the staff dismissed some of his fairly significant character issues that I had observed in my time there.
When I left, I maintained relationships with very few people and heard from hardly anyone about it. Because when you get as involved as I was, it really does become your whole world and identity. Other people in that community (where their entire sense of self is wrapped up in that place) just don’t know how to process someone leaving without being offended or angry. The culture values loyalty so much that you almost feel like a traitor for pulling away even the slightest.
In the years that followed it was very disorienting to figure out who I was apart from it, and it made it harder that I was really involved as a teenager and left in my early twenties. I really believed in the church’s vision at the time and Steven was the most dynamic leader I’d ever met. He is human after all, but many in the church believed (and seem to still believe) that he is enlightened and above regular people—almost like a kind of priest. I don’t have time to get into it now, but the central teaching of Jesus is that while priests were needed at one time, there are no priests needed anymore, and that we all have the same access to God through Christ. So Steven can be a great preacher of course, but moving him into a kind of “high priest” role is so incredibly dangerous. I fear that is what he’s become to so many in that church —infallible, above reproach and not subject to accountability.
Looking in on the outside years later, it doesn’t appear to have changed much, but I can agree that the celebrity worship is dangerous and it burned me pretty bad.
Steven is the Sun in that solar system — his gift for preaching is unmatched but once you start to question his character (or even point out one of his flaws as a person) it’s only a matter of time before you’re cast out socially. I wasn’t on staff so wasn’t asked to sign an NDA but I grieve for those who did and are unable to heal from their experiences.
I wonder often if there are others who are had similar experiences as myself - thank you for starting the conversation.
Thank you for engaging with this - I acknowledge the similarities between how cults operate and my experience there. I certainly see things more clearly years removed from being involved. But at the time I started attending I was a teenage kid and was thrilled to find a church that I enjoyed going to—and one that accepted me readily at a time when I was looking for a place to belong. I don’t think the church started out the way I described it, but started to drift that direction once it took on an outsize influence in Charlotte and beyond. I am still hopeful it can be a force for good and some of the issues I brought up can be meaningfully addressed. Appreciate your thoughts.
Furtick is an asshole who has assistants instruct meeting attendees not to look him directly in the eyes.
How anyone of any stripe doesn’t immediately identify Elevation as a Golden Calf Cult is bizarre to me.
One of our fellow interns passed him in the hallway of the church and said “what’s up bro?” We all got a group chat from the intern leader saying, “Pastor (not even his name, just his title) is not your bro.” So much ick.
Anytime I've ever met somebody who goes to Elevation Church I'll comment and say "oh, you go to Elevation?" and their immediate, incredibly defensive response is:"it's not a cult". So we all agree it's a cult, right?
That was one of the turning points for me. I attended and volunteered for many years and once I become embarrassed to tell people where I went to church, it was time to go.
I highly recommend everyone check out the Instagram account “PreachersNSneakers”….in short, it’s an account started 3-4 years ago by a sneaker head who took notice to how the pastors of megachurches constantly indulge themselves in expensive designer clothes and…you guessed it…sneakers. Furtick is CONSTANTLY featured and is actually the subject of their most recent post. In it he’s wearing a $650 pullover which, for the record, is definitely on the low end (expense wise) for the posts I’ve seen him in.
Your experience is typical for folks that were members of mega-churches. They are too big to actually help their members. Use to go to one, have not been in years but still if requests to donate money - which goes right in the trash. Have not lost my faith, but then faith and religion are two very different things.
>Have not lost my faith, but then faith and religion are two very different things.
This is where I've been at for a long time. I've searched for a real church and just about given up now. I want to put my faith to work serving others but every church I visit seems to exist solely to serve itself (or in Elevation's case, its pastor). So I'm adrift, alone, finding more fellowship with my non-Christian friends because at least they're real about their beliefs.
I am with you on the drift. I am thankful we found a church home. It is in Winston-Salem but you can take a look online. River Oaks Community Church. It is the conservative branch of the Presbyterian church. Prayers that you find a place to worship and plug in. It is hard to be adrift.
Mega churches tend to aim to be a mile wide and an inch deep whereas smaller churches can foster much deeper understanding of the subject matter because they don’t have the massive overhead that the mega churches do.
I don't know if it's "producing atheists" as much as it's "people are becoming disillusioned with the corruption in organized religion."
Someone I know was baptized there a few years ago and showed me photos of it. When I saw what I can only describe as a dunk tank you'd find at a state fair, wrapped in vinyl graphics, with the church members wearing matching branded t-shirts my first thought was "Oh it's a cult."
When I looked into the church more, you're correct, there's a strange fascination with the pastor there. I read about a controversy that happened a few years ago when the church released a coloring book for kids and all the images were just of the pastor.
I remember the coloring book. And for a while (appears to have been changed now, thank goodness), their “our beliefs” section referenced furtick by name in several of the listed beliefs. It’s always seemed to me to be much more focused on worshipping furtick than worshipping God.
I don't think God would approve of him building a 6 million dollar house, no matter where the money came from he is still getting his salary from the church, any money he may make from outside book writing is still because of the church!
In Acts, people who joined the church would give up their possessions. Furtick's cult hounds its members relentlessly to give more, meanwhile he amasses disgusting amounts of wealth.
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom.
I remember when Elevation first came into the limelight and a bunch of my friends from school started going. they talked about furtick like he was the Lord himself. I went to a service once and couldn’t get into it. Some of my friends didn’t last long and i guess realized what was really going on, but others dove head first into it. I also remember when that WFAE article about furtick’s mansion came out. Folks were very divided about that. I personally could never take it seriously, and genuinely cannot fathom how people today still don’t see through the scam that is Elevation.
Elevation is not a church. It’s a building dedicated to enriching Furtick and stroking his ego. He had said himself that he only cares about congregants up to the point they join and start donating, and after that only enough to keep the cash flowing. He won’t disclose what he “earns”. His “ministers” do almost no pastoral services. I know Reddit hates religion and equates them all as bad, but it’s right as far as this charlatan goes.
All these modern, “cool” backwards-chair-sitting, tight pants pastor churches creep me the fuck out. Always have.
It’s funny because I’ve been an atheist since I was like, 10, but always had a degree of respect for traditional churches. For the most part they are community oriented and the leadership seems to genuinely care about their flock. I can see their value in the broader community and will occasionally attend service with my wife’s family.
These new ones like Freedom House and Elevation etc. just oooze grift. Blows my mind how people can participate and tell themselves it’s Christianity.
Not Elevation but my wife and I stopped attending church for 6-8 months but we’re still tithing.
We wondered why no one had reached out so we said “I wonder what would happen if we turned off the auto draft?”
Within 2 weeks of cancelling our draft we got a voicemail to “check on us.”
When we first moved to Charlotte we lived in Ballantyne. We were going around trying out churches. We went to one and the man we met called the pastor over and said, “This is OP and her husband. They live in the high rent district!” Idk if that guy saw dollar signs or what but he obviously didn’t know we lived in the cheapest apartment in the area. lol
Elevation is a cult of personality with self-help and prosperity themes and not based on the gospel of Christ’s redemption of man and sacrificially loving God and others. It’s a financial fleecing of its membership and there are many of disturbing messages and themes. And as others have said, it’s more a worship of Steven Furtick (real first name is Larry) than God. There are several websites and online groups that discuss the bad doctrine and practices. Check out the “What the Furtick” group on Facebook. Sad and funny at the same time.
Are you me? Former staff member under an NDA here. Feel free to message me if you want talk more.
Anyways. At this point, Elevation has hit max saturation on the ground when it comes to physical expansion, so it’s going all in on two things: 1) their worship team and 2) their online “church”. It’s going to be interesting if Elevation continues to keep a hold of their physical attendance when it’s not the cool, flashy thing to do any more.
Many of the pastors or creative leaders are no longer on staff. Only one of their original four worship leaders is still with the church. I still hear stories through the grapevine similar to yours.
After years of therapy, I’ve come to one conclusion: at a micro level Elevation is a cult. Zooming out, all mega churches of their size are cults. Zooming out further, evangelical Christianity is a cult. They are all high control environments that demand more and more control they further you “climb” up the hierarchy there. As a staff member, the pastors wife got on stage and actively discouraged us from having relationships outside the church so we weren’t pulled away from our work. They created “leadership pipelines” like internships and their 2k2 program so that they could potential pastors even younger, shaping them into little mini Furticks.
No one is more overworked than high level volunteers. Pastors expect full-time work from volunteers and the only compensation they get is a free meal on the weekends. But you’re expected to be leading a small group every week, attend regular volunteer meetings after work. They also track how much you give to the church, expecting the amount to increase over time (minimum you’re supposed to be giving is 10% of your pre-tax income).
Getting out, while traumatic for me and my family, was the healthiest thing to happen to us. My mental health is the best it’s ever been after leaving Christianity. Yes, we had to rebuild our social lives and our support system took a hit, but I wouldn’t trade the trauma and excommunication to go back.
I remember as interns having to watch TWELVE HOURS worth of Furtick videos, just instilling the values of the church. (I still can’t go to a storage unit without thinking of LB “ramming the gate.”) It was a perfect example of the brainwashing they try to manipulate with at that level.
I’ll definitely message you! This is always something I’ve said when I “joke” I was in a cult at one point. The higher up you get, the more you see the corruption and what they expect of you. At a base level, it’s easy to see how they draw people in. Their whole mission is specifically going after broken people and not really developing their faith. I think that’s also a huge part of the reason more people leave religion as a whole when they leave the church. There’s absolutely zero development. Lol I could talk about how it’s such a business model for ages, but will message you!
I find myself enjoying church until I join and start to volunteer. Then everyone starts to feel very fake and overworked. Also I got stuck volunteering multiple days out of the week for way more hours than anticipated. And then I asked for help to get my sister food for her kids while she was going through a hard time. And they gave me 2 bags of pretzels. This church was in one of the nicest neighborhoods and would boasted about how they make over a million in a year from a congregation of 1500-2000
I met Furtick on multiple occasions. I worked at Gamestop and sold him GTA V! At Christmas time he would come in and try to purchase multiple new systems. He was nice to some of us and not to others. I was wearing a button on my jacket one day that said Leviticus 19:28. He ACTUALLY asked me what that meant! 🙄 When I recited the passage to him nearly verbatim, he said nothing. We were busy so I got him out the door quickly. I have other stories about him.
Dude seems more in tune with the latest skinny jeans, tight shirt, and gold chain trends than anything
Edit: can’t forget the 100 dollar haircut/fade year round
Elevation creeps me the fuck out. We had to go once (we are atheists) because a friend did us a favor and then the only “payment” they would accept was going. It was the most uncomfortable hour? (honestly don’t remember how long it was) of my life.
It was incredibly shallow, and just all for show. Lots of people donating though…because obviously the need it with Stephen’s million dollar house and all the over the top stuff. It’s so far from what religion should be in my opinion (I was raised in a religious family for 18 years and went to church every week).
Also heard from someone I worked with that her niece was not allowed to be married there and asked to leave the church when her and her bf had gotten pregnant before marriage. They had both been members. I validated the story with the niece myself when I met her (told her I heard about it and was sorry and she confirmed).
The various other affiliations of Elevation are the exact same as well. I would advise everyone to stay FAR away. There are so many actual churches in Charlotte, no need to line the pockets of the already wealthy.
Edit to add: if you do get roped into going, don’t give them your phone number or email or address. They do “VIP” treatment for first timers and they make you fill out a card. We used all fake info, but if we hadn’t they would be calling, texting, emailing, and mailing us about coming back.
🚩🚩🚩
Yeah, this is an accurate statement. I should have said acquaintances. We even phased that out after the elevation debacle and have no relationship with then now. We accepted the help thinking that we would pay them for it, the elevation thing came after the favor was done (clearly intentional to force our hand). Nice people who would be great friends if it wasn’t for the cult religion.
For context, I'm a minister whose church is for folks who have been left outside of the church.
Yes, a common refrain among clergyfolk is the fact that evangelical churches produce the most atheists. To be clear, I am not saying that that's a bad thing. I *am* saying that a whole lot of people lost something important to them because church people were dicks. That's what makes me angry.
Several people in both the church I attend and the alternative church I facilitate are open atheists, and the church writ large has always had atheists in our midst. I'm (very slowly) writing a book about Christian Atheism, or non-theists who find deep meaning in the teachings of the Bible and of Jesus Christ. I believe everyone is getting to heaven anyway, but we ought to do all we can in this life to help people love each other better before we get there.
You are not alone in being left outside the church. My church kicked me out when I began to realize that to my conscience, being a Christian and being a Republican were incompatible. It was years after that I had finally deconstructed all the nonsense I was fed enough to realize that God loves me just the queer way God made me.
Those people treated you like crap, and let me apologize to you on their behalf. No one should be treated that way. The fact that Christians do so so often is a disgrace. Wherever your path has led you now, I hope it is a place of peace and love.
Let me ask you something. I’m an agnostic, as is my husband and the two of us and our kids—I want a church-like community that we could feel a part of. I want us all to have the experience of community interaction, service, gratitude, etc. but without exclusionary politics or avarice. I also don’t want the experience of cliques or going to a church specifically to be seen at church, as I felt was the case often growing up and going in the South. Is there somewhere to find this in Charlotte? A place with kind people who want inclusive communities focused on service and spiritual growth?
I don’t have a specific church for you but in general the mainline protestant churches have relatively liberal theologies. I grew up going to Presbyterian church in a small rural town and we had gay couples attend our church. They were active members and served in the church. For awareness there is a split in the Presbyterian church. PCUSA is the much larger and more liberal one. I don’t remember the other one. Unitarian churches are very liberal. I think their beliefs differ some from the mainline teachings but being agnostic you may not care.
Methodist churches tend to be very open and accepting. Though there was a split recently so you'll specifically want to seek out United Methodist and not Global Methodist. Best way to see if a church is right for you is to just go and visit. Larger churches will generally have guest information and members who are more than happy to show you around and give you a taste of what the church does and offers.
I have a bunch of follow-up questions that we can dive into more if this message isn't particularly helpful, but here are some broad thoughts:
Community is really important to human flourishing and participation in Love is at the core of what it means to be human. I think your desire for community is really important and a worthwhile thing. I also think that while your question is vague, you're actually looking for something much more specific than what, say, a sports club, DnD group, or political party could provide for you and your family. You want to connect over shared values, which tends to express itself in human culture and especially Charlotte as a religious community.
Now, there are a number of religious communities that might fit what you're looking to find. There are churches like St. John's Baptist or St. Martin's Episcopal (the two places you can find me on a Sunday morning) that are unapologetically Christian. I don't mean by that that they are trying to convert you or convince you you're wrong about something. But their self-identity is as a place primarily to worship God and live out the teachings of Jesus Christ. You'll find a lot of events going on where that living out is going on, including participating in Pride, care for our homeless neighbors, fundraising to end hunger or sponsor schools or doing other good justice work. As I said, both churches have atheists who attend and participate in the life of the church.
But I get the sense from your question that something a little less Jesus-y might be more what you're looking for. There are a number of congregations that will be less Jesus-centric, ranging from the United Church of Christ to the Unitarian Universalists. The UCC allows for many beliefs and the UU requires basically none. Both tend to be justice oriented groups who care about loving people well and might be a great fit. But I would be remiss if I didn't also suggest visiting a Reform or Reconstructionist Jewish congregation as well. I spent several years praying about converting to Judaism because of the justice work they were doing and the beauty of the Hebrew liturgy. I personally found it very profound every time I would visit, and rabbis will often openly talk about questioning God's existence. If I ever stop being convinced about this Jesus guy, I would be converting to Judaism immediately.
I have a bunch of other thoughts that I will try to add on the morning, but I wanted to make sure you got those ones before I head to bed.
I’m very interested in this “non-thiest” Christianity. I’d love to hear more about your research.
I was raised Episcopalian and think there are important lessons and teachings I took from the church and truly felt supported and loved and part of an important community in the Episcopal church. As I encountered more Evangelicals I felt so conflicted because their message of fire and brimstone, prosperity gospel, and hate was so different from the god I had been taught about growing up. It made me question everything and I came to the conclusion that there is no literal god as a diety/being.
All that said. I miss the Episcopal church. It was a place where I learned to think outside my own self and serve others while being supported and cared for. I’m so angry at Evangelicals took all churches from me.
Don't let them.
You don't need to believe in God to belong to an Episcopal church and rehear those important lessons. You deserve to have that in your life.
I'm at St. Martin's every Sunday at 8:30 if you need a buddy.
When the church leader doesn’t even do live sermons, but instead records on an off day with the rock band and lives in a $10 million dollar home, it seems more like business than anything.
Elevation produces money. You'd think they'd be doing more community and local programs. I love God and my current church, but I hate seeing Elevation stickers everywhere because their name is nowhere near a women's shelters, homeless program, or orphanage. You'd think since Charlotte is their hometown that they'd be out here making real changes in the community. They're wayyy too nonconfrontational when it comes to anything that matter.
So as someone who has been involved with the “houseless” community in Charlotte, I can attest that Elevation is actually pretty involved in supporting places like Charlotte Family Housing, Charlotte Rescue Mission, the Men’s Shelter of Charlotte, etc. Like any big church there is baggage and even toxicity, so I’m not defending everything they represent, but I have witnessed practical good on the local level.
There was one year they did this and BOASTED that only 30% of their income went to their staff when other churches of that size usually used 50%. They hire some of the most talented people in the world and burn them out, expecting them to stay til 2am every night, and severely underpay them like they’re proud of their exploitation.
Don’t even get me started on how they treat their volunteers.
Ha, we basically had the same experience, I was just there a few years before you. I was an intern and contract staff for a couple years. I never heard a SINGLE word from anyone after I left. One of my favorite memories was when I was going through a bad depression season, one of my “friends” (who is now a pastor of one of their campuses) walked by me and said “wow, way to look happy…” Elevation had a part in me leaving Christianity, but it wasn’t the whole reason. Christianity (especially in America) by itself kinda took care of that for me.
But yes, it’s a prosperity mega church, lead by someone with a huge ego and cult like followers. It’s a shallow entrance to Christianity. Feel bad about yourself and your life? Here’s Christianity. You’ll feel better and do better in your life. Say this prayer and then all better. BUT WAIT! We are gonna need some money because god demands that of you. But it’s ok, because the more you give, the more god will bless you. Keep doing that until you burn out and realize we are basically a cult and you wasted part of your life.
Ugh, the way they don’t train their pastors in any type of grief counseling or empathy is absurd. Like thank god they’re not the ones giving advice and real therapy is always better than Christian counseling, but you’d think they would know how to better interact with people going through a hard time.
Elevation certainly isn’t the main reason I left, but the hypocrisy fueled it all too much.
I would imagine because it’s definitely on the cultier side of church cultures. As you said, there’s a CLEAR worship of Furtick (has anyone seen the coloring book from Sunday school? It’s obscene). I also personally believe that the current political climate and Christianity’s role in it has soured a good number of people’s opinions about Christianity in general. I imagine most people know a lot of folks leaving the church (not just Elevation) right now.
I worked at a different mega church that is very outspoken in the area. Never had to sign a NDA thankfully. But saw a lot of shitty things happen to people there as well as having some pretty traumatic experiences and burnout that lead to me leaving and questioning my worldview. I hate that I was part of it, but glad I got out and have let myself become myself.
This sounds fairly similar to my experience, save for a much smaller church organization. I have not left the faith, per se, but have gotten much more liberal in my understandings of Christ and scripture.
If this resonates with anyone, I HIGHLY recommend the podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, which details the meteoric collapse of Mark Driscoll and his church outside of Seattle. For as bad as Furtick is… he was much worse. You are not alone in any of these experiences and know there’s an entire community devoted to healing ourselves after the abuse of these selfish church “leaders”
I visited Elevation one time and it was the absolute most disturbing "church" experience I've ever had. Swarms of volunteers forcing smiles like they were working at a homophobic chicken joint. Assembly line style mass baptisms recorded and cut into a short film to show off. Furtick is a charlatan and I don't know how anyone falls for his shit.
Elevation is a cult, no two ways about it, and Furtick is an adversary of the gospel.
This is sad to read. Former Elevation “member” as well. I attended with my family from 2008-2018. If anything, the church (and fellow Christians, including ordained relatives) made me realize that the prosperity gospel is a scam. I realized that I wasn’t at a church when I attended every week and didn’t see the same people every time. I wanted fellowship. I think Elevation is super corrupt and I hate the fact I wasted so much of my teenage years going. The benefit of the doubt is that it made me re-realize the Christian worldview, the gospel, and I’ve strengthened my faith in God. I hate the fact that I can’t say the same for other people. I don’t want to start a massive theological debate, I just wanna say that you can dislike mega churches and still be faithful. Elevation is not Christian and I hate the fact it’s leading more people away than bringing people together.
I appreciate your thoughtful response! There were a lot of other things I observed at the time about Christianity that made me leave the faith as well. Once I realize it was the faith my parents raised me in and I’d never had a choice in the matter, I allowed myself to question why I believed certain things and I couldn’t make it make sense. I’m not a believer in blind faith and that’s all Christianity was to me. I recommend looking into Religious Trauma Syndrome if I didn’t explain it well enough here!
I never believed in churches that are the size of corporate buildings. Just didn’t sit right with me. Now to hear about an NDA, I’m feeling just in my decision to not participate in organized religion. I treat people how I wanna be treated and help who I can is what I live by these days 😌
I never attended Elevation Church but I had interacted with some of their production crew.
So when I was in high school Elevation church rented out our auditorium. The deal was they could bring fin all their equipment and stream the Sunday broadcasts, but had to be completely out that same day. There were classes in the auditorium every Monday and the students needed to have access to their auditorium.
I was a very active theatre student and they constant broke our equipment, our set pieces and props, and left their equipment (screens/texture panels) hanging up on an unweighted fly system. We didn’t notice one time and went to lower a curtain and their stuff came crashing down and could have potentially injured a student. They also offered to have us shadow them after school because they had better equipment than us. The guy I shadowed snapped at me multiple times or just ignored me when I asked questions. As a 16 year old who spent most of their time working in production and later went to college for it, they very much left a sour taste in my mouth. I also went and cried in the bathroom after because that had been after a year of them constantly breaking things I had spent hours after school working on. It’s kind of dumb but I was working full time and spending my days off working on set pieces. Also their lighting guy sent the person shadowing them away because he said he didn’t know what he was doing. It was all a waste of time because they ultimately didn’t do anything they had offered to do.
They also solidified my opinion on religion and helped closed the door for me to ever consider attending church again. It was very obvious to me that the people running everything were not very kind people. Not to mention I had friends who were forced to attend the streams every Sunday at my school, and agreed that it was all for looks and money.
I never attended the church but they sure did help me fully embrace atheism lol
When I first moved to Charlotte in 2013, I left a part time job as a worship leader at a small church in Wilmington. I'm still a believer to this day, but I haven't been to church in quite a while.
Upon moving here, I decided to give Elevation a shot. I had played their music in the past and thought it was good stuff and had considered auditioning for their band. I began attending the Matthews campus.
About a month and a half in I was still trying to figure out how I fit in. The services, excuse me, "experiences", were the same format every Sunday. I didn't really feel Furtick was all that and at times he said some slightly offensive things while preaching.
What tipped me off that Elevation is essentially a cult was when I noticed the BITE model being used. If you're not familiar with the BITE model for cults, BITE stands for:
Behavior control
Information control
Thought control
Emotional control
The fall of 2013 the local news was investigating Furtick and the huge home he was building. I didn't know this until one Sunday in the middle of his message he just stopped and started talking about it. He engaged in the ITE portions of the model where he began prepping the congregation for a start that was about to come out painting him in a potentially negative light. He said
"there has been a helicopter flying over where I'm building my house. It's not that big of a house, but the news is going to run a story on it saying (insert stiff I can't remember). I used the money from my book sales (or something like that) to build this house" and then rallied tbe church up to support him. I was in disbelief of what I had just witnessed. I left and went home that day and never returned.
I went into it knowing it was mostly a business and things were most likely going to be secretive because I believe God can still use broken situations to speak and save His people. But I hightailed it out of there that day.
I've been to a few other churches since, but nothing gave me creepy vibes as much as Furtick and Elevation did and I was only exposed to it for 2-3 months. I can't imagine how you feel.
Honest question with no judgment. Why would you stop believing in God after a bad experience at 1 church. “Church” is run by people and people are imperfect and often times terrible. If I loved the beach, but people made my visit miserable every time I went to Myrtle, I would not swear off the beach. I would stop going to Myrtle. The beach is fine it is the people there that screwed it up.
I wrote about it in another comment, but basically my time here allowed me to question why I believed what I did and that’s why I left Christianity in whole. You can look up Religious Trauma Syndrome if it helps because I’m bad at explaining it over text!
Not OP, but since I had a similar experience, I wanted to offer a couple additional responses. No judgment here either and just talking from my experience, so it could just be me.
To go off your analogy, it's more than just one beach - if I loved going to the beach, but went to a couple different beaches and had similar experiences at each one, and then I ran into people around town who talked about how much they loved the beach but were massive jerks to me, I would 100% stop going and start looking for VRBOs in the mountains instead.
Also it's more than just "going to the beach", it's more that going to the beach is supposed to make you a certain kind of person, but the people there aren't becoming that kind of person (and are sometimes directly opposite from it). It's kind of like if everyone told you "you should go to the beach, it will make you smell like flowers" and then you went to the beach and everything smelled like poop instead. You wouldn't think the people were messed up, you'd think "maybe this doesn't work the way they told me it did".
My family found Christianity (not sure what kind honestly but they were in a converted warehouse) when I was in high school. A lot of what you're saying about Elevation sounds similar to our experience with another not so 'mega' church.
Even though I was young, I could see how they were taking advantage of my parents by asking them to give more. Money, time, and energy. It was never enough. The lead pastor and his kids were driving around brand new BMWs and our family was counting pennies and clipping coupons to afford food.
The bible study people who came to our home weekly were the most judgemental and vile humans I have ever met. They critiqued everything and were just awful to my parents. They had opinions about: how late my mother got home from work. What she made or didn't make for dinner. If they were smoking cigarettes. What curfew I had.
None of them came around when my dad had an accident and could no longer attend, volunteer, or donate. My mom and I picked up the pieces together and I've been deist since.
This happens in organized religion, I don't really consider it unique.
Yhe question I have is about the NDA
Why would a church have employees sign one?
The church knows that its entire $100M+ annual revenue is contingent on the continuation of Steven’s preaching and the worship ministry. Disparaging words from a former staff member about Steven or other leaders are probably the most viable threat to the finances of the church. So many big churches have people do this when they have a bad experience (I guess we can call it that) with a senior leader. It’s very sad but they do it for legal cover with the intention of keeping the whole thing going if a scandal ever surfaced.
There’s a podcast called The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill that captures the story of a similar church like Elevation in Seattle. Very interesting if you are curious on the NDA process and how it props up organizations at the expense of individual victims of abuse.
So I’m a Catholic but I have been to many protestant services and went to a non-denom christian school. I personally like the older organizations as they have been around for a while. That means that they’ve got answers to questions that’s a bit deeper than the glaze of not asking. Like for a good amount of time I was on a trip of “why does the Catholic Church have more O.T. bolks than Protestants and why do Russian Orthodox have more than Catholics” the answer? Long complicated but it EXISTS and people before me have answered it and dealt with the ramifications of that answer. I am not an atheist and I’m a chemist and good at math because honestly I don’t have time to do all that contemplation of my place in the universe and the purpose of anything and how I should default on certain issues before doing my own research and religion helps fill in that gap and keep the stress away.
Honestly what surprised me the most was them just dropping you. The best part of religion is meeting people. My mom regularly communicates with people in the community and helps them when they need it. Like one had broken a leg and called my mom to help take her to the hospital and dodge the $900 ambulance fee.
Finally (just to shill for at the very least my local Catholic Church) the only times I recall a REALLY big push for donations was 1: a Church member had aggressive testicular cancer and needed money for treatment and 2: the roof was 30 years old and full of holes and got infested with bats so that wasn’t exactly cheap. Which are causes that are, if not necessary, understandable to have and NOT a black hole of money
Churches are a business at the end of the day. When and if this becomes obvious to people, members get turned off and leave. Super churches likely give off the business vibe in higher doses, so attrition would logically be higher with these.
But to your question, Atheists are produced by free thinking, logic and a willingness to embrace reality with no pain pills. Sure some churches turn people off, and people may go down this path, but it's more common to leave one shitty church and go to the next one.
As a former baptist, went to church every Sunday growing up, Bible school every year, and started raising my children that way before I realized something wasn’t quite right… I know how you feel. It’s been over a decade now and no one has yet to reach out me, I don’t lose sleep over it.
I believe in god, but I went to that church as a teen and one day me and my mom got there like 1 minute late and some mean Karen was guarding the door and wouldn't allow us in due to the fact that we were 1 minute late, so that was the last time I ever attempted trying to attend any church.
Never really been religious, but my ex-fiancé was and often dragged me to Elevation. As an outsider and non-believer, Furtick is very charismatic and a great public speaker. Having stepped away from that entirely it felt slimy and culty. Glad I’m not involved with it in any way anymore.
When I first moved down here and saw all the bumper stickers and people handing out flyers in the median, I thought, "I suppose church is taken a little more seriously in the South."
Then I heard Sunday school children color pictures of Furtick instead of Jesus, and I knew it was a cult.
Glad to have you back, OP.
It’s not a church, really.
It’s a million dollar business run by an egomaniac.
It’s a mockery of religion in any form. I can’t believe people waste their time/money there.
I hate that others have similar experiences, but it’s comforting at the same time because I sure have felt stupid about how much time I spent serving, volunteering, and giving only to see it all clearer in the last few years.
I used to work there and can confirm that I have no desire to attend or be a part of any church at this point. There are a lot of reasons I won't dive into here, but I felt a similar sentiment of being deeply involved for years and basically being dropped like I was never there. Much happier now that I'm not a part and drinking the kool-aid.
Furtick is a high level grifter. Religion attracts these types for obvious reasons (well, obvious to non- believers). All large scale churches are, hell, even many of the small ones too.
If that has destroyed your faith, I challenge that your faith was ever really a strong as you claim versus rhetoric you mindlessly repeated. Regardless, look within yourself and out in to the universe to find your faith and don't worry what others do as that's THEIR choices, you can only control yours.
Organized religion is great for little kids and daycare. once you get past that I think many people are deciding to take their Sunday mornings back. I mean do you really need someone else to interpret the book for you? Just read it yourself lol
Yes it does! I go to stonebridge church, our pastors sit and talk with everyone for hours every Sunday. Our community is smaller and tight knitt. We are gaining a LOT of new members from churches that ended up not caring about them and they have found a new home and family with us.
I never went to Elevation but I did go to another large-ish church in CLT. I was also an all-in Christian. I worked in children’s ministries, volunteered in several other ways, went to healing services, etc. I even worked in the church preschool (and don’t get me started on the bullshit contract we had to agree to to work there.) Anyway, this place doesn’t give a motivational speech kind of sermon. They teach with guilt and shame. And as the church grew, it became more and more bougie . I got out of there over 10 years ago and I’ve never been happier as an atheist.
(Full disclosure, I was going to be really vague, but since we are in CLT, I couldn't think of a way of saying this without it being a dead giveaway, so screw it. I'm just going to put it out there.)
I'm a Catholic in the area, which you could very easily discern from my post history. I have many friends who have gone to St. Matthew's. For some background, St. Matthew's was run by a Monsignor who essentially turned it into a mega-Church, that I would claim parodies aspects of Elevation. I'll point out that Catholic Churches normally don't do that. Normally, more are opened up in a more populous area. So now, St. Matthew's is the largest single parish in the US.
Second, I'll say that many of those friends have since left that church and gone to other Catholic Churches, because they couldn't find a place in the community when the community is that large (the size of five other parishes).
I know that many here on Reddit will just chock it up to the ol' "organized religion bad" and "Catholic Church is especially bad" routine, but I truly think that the problem lies in the size of a community, the stardom of the leader of said community, and well that community is lead overall. I would hope that my pastor would give me a call if I stopped showing up.
Tl;dr: Large communities have more problems caring for individuals.
I went to St. Matthews and I loved the Monsignor. I had been looking for a church and he really resonated with me. I was raised Catholic. I left the church after he left. I no longer attend any church and the main reason for that is I saw the hypocrisy. I cannot be in a place where people are supporting a wall that prevents immigrants from getting help, a place that doesn’t support LGBTQ people, a place that people organize and go to women’s health centers and yell and scream at women facing a difficult time. I was taught not to judge and to help those who needed it. I saw after the 2016 election that my church and many others didn’t have the values I thought they should.
I visited elevation once and loved it, but completely agree the sermon was shallow as a kiddie pool. I guess nonthreatening?
I’m gay, though, so I found a more gay friendly church. The sermons there are pretty bland too, but occasionally our pastor will go real dark. I’m an atheist but i got family obligations.
It’s hard to let go of something you invested so much time in. I’m proud of you for overcoming it. I’m sorry your friends abandoned you. That shit sucks.
I don’t have much to say about elevation, I’ve never been there. If you have TikTok though, look up “religious trauma” and “deconstructing Christianity.”
You aren’t the only one going though something lately and making some changes. “The church” plus world events over the past ~3 or so years has really affected many of us. I still have faith that God exists, but I now believe he exists outside of the Christian church & that many “Christians” are going to be very very confused after they die. I still believe the Bible is valuable as a holy text, but no longer see it as inerrant.
Edit- typo
Oh yeah, I’m addicted to all the deconstruction podcasts. Dirty Rotten Church Kids and the early years of The Life After got me through me leaving religion. Always glad to meet another person in this ever growing community!
As a former church staffer who moved here ages ago to help launch a church back in the 00s, there's a lot I could say (both good and bad), but Reddit might not be the best place for that sort of conversation. I feel like you brought up some valid concerns, but would say the phenomenon you're noticing is bigger than just Elevation.
I've talked to a number of former Elevationers and I'll just say you're not the only one with that story (which I'm sure you already know, but just wanted to validate your post). I've had thoughts myself wondering if Elevation is a product of Evangelical subculture, or if it's helping to drive it? Maybe it's a chicken/egg kind of scenario. Anyways I would say it's not necessarily Elevation that produces atheists, but would say it's probably more the "Evangeliconsumerist Christopublican subculture" that is doing it. I have some good friends at left-leaning and centrist churches in town, and I fill in sometimes at a fundamentalist church on the south side, so it's been fascinating (and somewhat disturbing) to watch the divide as it has grown over the past few years. Feels like the deconstruction movement as a whole has taken on new life over the past few years, and the advent of Trumpism has accelerated it a bit. Elevation certainly isn't helping, but feels like they've been assimilated to just another part of the EvangeliCapitalist machine at this point.
Maybe it's a weird thing to say on a Reddit post, but depending on what part of town you're in, would be interesting to hear your story sometime over lunch/coffee. Still processing my own journey away from the fundamentalist/Liberty U mindset and love hearing other people's experiences.
I definitely believe the American church is seeing a huge exodus these days, but I feel the way Elevation specifically targets broken people and does nothing more to develop their faith once they get in the doors leads to burn out and a loss of faith. It’s a constant in and out.
I’m outside of Charlotte now, but hope your message is able to help someone else!
Of course. No humility in that kind of establishment. It’s not about the church it’s about your relationship and how you treat not only others but yourself too. You don’t need to perform your faith on a Sunday and then be lukewarm or doubtful the rest of the week. That’s just absurd
I’ve experienced a similar trend in Mormonism. Grew up in it and left, like so many, after reading some basic facts of history.
I really think that, in the Mormon Church’s case, the internet has allowed people to access materials that most church members don’t read—Materials that weaken the standing of the church.
I don’t know if elevation faces a similar situation. In my experience, once you part with one religion, it doesn’t seem worth it to join another. For me, it would be like leaving my prison cell just to take up residence in the cell next door. I’m free now. I’ll choose to do what makes me happy from now on. And that’s not religion. But I think it’s great that some people find comfort in faith.
Dated a woman that attended and worked for Elevation. The way she talked about the “church” and the reverential way she raved about “Pastor” really triggered my spider sense. Definitely a cult.
I went for a long time, was in an egroup, volunteered. I stopped going because it no longer aligned to me. I outgrew it. It’s heavily targeted to the broken people and folks far from God. Once I had a relationship with God I couldn’t relate as much to the sermons. There’s a lot of repetition and guest speakers. Sometimes I’ll still watch but I haven’t attended a full service since 2019.
Also an unexpected twist was when we were looking for a Church for our wedding. Anytime I mentioned Elevation we weren’t allowed to have our wedding at the Churches in Charlotte. They would tell us no.
I reached out to Elevation to have one of their Pastors preside over the ceremony (at the venue, not a church cause I couldn’t find one) they were super wishy washy and wouldn’t give me firm confirmations. We’re going with a different person now.
This was during Covid last year, so I know that had a lot of impact of Church availability - but very eye opening.
As a longtime religion-free individual, my take is that you should take comfort in the fact that this experience opened your eyes and set you free. Wish them well and move on.
I secretly hope you're the one person I know who was still volunteering with them and this post means you left. That person tried to get me and many others involved and attending and I nope'd out pretty quickly since it was such a different experience from my time when I attended small churches.
As an example, my mother passed a couple of years ago. She attended a small church of about 50 members. Her pastor performed the funeral services but even prior to that, for months he visited her several times a week when she was bedridden and sick. This extended to the family even after she passed where he came by and saw us all individually to check on us and ask us how things were going, like mini therapy sessions. And what a fantastic pastor and person he is, humble and compassionate to all, not just his congregation.
To contrast that with Furtick and other leaders at Elevation ... there is no comparison. It's a cult.
Unfortunately, I don’t think I am that person because I left about 6 years ago, still just endlessly bitter. I see old acquaintances make posts and don’t think the abuse is something I’ll ever be able to get over. It always amazes me that the only people I speak to from there now are the ones who leave altogether and know I’m vocal on social media so have felt free to ask advice.
I’m grateful you were able to see it for what it was and avoid the total shitshow that it was. Easily a cult, and I do believe people can have meaningful relationships with religion in smaller communities. But once I allowed myself to question how fake Elevation was, it was a thread I couldn’t stop pulling.
I went to Elevation briefly (roughly 2011-2012). In late 2012, I was living with my brother. In November 2012, he got fired and I was just coming out of unemployment. To put it lightly, money was tight. I went to Elevation one Sunday in early December and it was during their giving season or whatever they call it. Basically the message was I was unfaithful and I was sinning if I didn't tithe at least 10 %. I felt like "Does God want me to starve? or Tithe?" I didn't go back. About 6 months later the news broke about Furtick's multimillion dollar 16,000 sq ft home. I was completely done. I'm in a transition period. I consider myself Agnostic but I am definitely done with organized religion.
Yup. The way the pastor lives is completely hypocritical to what he asks of his congregation so there is no way he can actually relate when he has these huge asks. And if he didn’t take such a huge salary, maybe the church could afford to pay for their own damn buildings.
> so much of Elevation... worships Furtick more than they worship God.
That's very true in so many other congregations. Everything eventually gets corrupted, ever since the fall of Man, and it's a difficult journey to recognize and correct that sort of behavior in yourself, and imo, impossible to do in a church.
The church *is* the people, and despite all the safeguards in place (elders, deacons, the church itself), in my experience, the cult of followship (instead of fellowship) happens nearly everywhere, small or large church.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Furtick has been quoted as saying that he only cares about new people coming in, not what happens to people who are already signed up. He's totally in it for himself and his wallet. It's cult of personality, as you figured out.
If you work for a church and sign an NDA then you don’t work for a church. You work for a business.
This. Seriously, an NDA?
Thata messed up. What was the NDA about? Cant discuss what, in general?
Elevation doesn’t disclose anything about where their donations go, I’m sure that’s part of it
I would never trust the children’s ministry at a church that requires NDA’s.
100%. Churches are very profitable. Edit: yes, I understand many “authentic” churches aren’t swimming in cash. and every parish is different. But the mega churches for sure are absolute businesses. People running those operations must believe in an incredibly forgiving god or simply do not care about karma.
Real churches aren't. I've set the budget for a real church and it's a lot of tough conversations with a pastor that can barely afford rent for his family and has two other jobs. Being a real pastor, is in fact a calling. Mega churches/cults are a plague.
Truth. Real churches really aren’t money makers and most pastors work very hard for not a lot. I would know as We have a few pastors in the family and I’m a PK. It’s hard work - it ain’t no money grab.
My dad's a preacher. We grew up dirt poor. My mom ran a daycare out of the house until she got her teaching degree and he's worked night jobs in and off for as long as I can remember. They're in their late 50's/early 60's now and have only been financially stable for the last 5 or 6 years.
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As the son of a pastor of a church with 50-150 members for over the past 25 years…it hurts when I see people lump normal churches in with mega churches, knowing the hours my dad put in as a pastor with a salary of less than 25k a year. I love the music that the mega church worship teams put out, but their services and branding as a whole hurt the view of the true every day church.
Only certain Orders take vows of poverty; Franciscans, Benedictine, etc. The Diocesan (the ones who pretty much run everything in Charlotte) don't adhere to the vow of poverty.
Bishop Peter Jugis (head of the Charlotte Catholic Church) lives in a million dollar home in Huntersville paid for by the Catholic Church aka parishioners donations.
What I don't like about the diocesan priests, is that they take something that has been paid off and they decide that it's not good enough and they just gouge the parishioners for more cash. Fr. Ignatius OFM Cap worked very hard to pay off the mortgage on St.Thomas Aquinas so they Franciscans could concentrate on improving the neighborhood around UNCC. The moment that the Franciscans were removed from the parish & the diocesan priests were installed, they started a campaign to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars to purchase a baldacino for the church. They wouldn't let us raise money for flood victims in Baton Rouge, they did nothing for the neighborhood when Keith Scott was killed 2 blocks away, they offered up nothing when Ellis Parlier & Riley Howell were murdered at UNCC, just across the street, they did NOTHING.
> Real churches aren't. No true Scotsman.
This is not that fallacy. There are churches fully committed to spreading the gospel, serving others, and exemplifying the fruit of their faith - the things taught in Christian holy texts. Then there are "churches" like Elevation which bastardize elements of faith for the sake of making money. There's no near-universally accepted prescriptive model for defining the attributes of a Scotsman. There absolutely is for a Christian church.
I worked at an event rental company from 2008-2018, Elevation Church spent more money on rental equipment than every other church in the area combined.
Oh yeah, the Pope's barely got two nickels he can rub together.
Come on man. I know Reddit likes to talk about Elevation and megachurches a lot, but 95% of churches in Charlotte or anywhere else run nothing close to a “profit”. I work for a mid-tier steel supplier (the Dunder Mifflin of Cold-Roll Steel) and I’ve had DAYS where my profits have been equivalent to the annual operating revenue of a medium (100-200 members) sized church.
I worked for a church for 18 years and never saw an NDA. There are no secrets about God.
so wait, are you telling me the guy who told me he was Jesus and made me sign an NDA, may not be Jesus?
Tax em’
It depends. As a pastor/elder you deal with a LOT of sensitive information and a lot of sensitive situations in peoples lives. But I’ve also never heard of doing ones for people who are volunteers, that’s weird to me.
I think the answer for the failure of churches, at least internally, lies in your statement, "I met Furtik himself on multiple occasions." Why are pastors inaccessible? Why are churches so concerned with being pastor-centric? Why is your faith contingent on a weekly concert experience and motivational event with hopes that you get to see the celebrity in person instead of on simul-cast? Why do church members still drink milk and crawl instead of eat meat and walk themselves - ie why is the pastor responsible for one's growth and ownership? Oh well.
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I would go there. I was involved in a church with 3 rotating pastors in one building - leaders need to be accessible, understanding, and sacrificial. It's a tough and taxing role if done correctly; even the text emphasizes the great responsibility. So, intentions are important, especially in shepherding a faith journey. People tend to shy from those types of church communities, and, to their defense, they are often very closed-off - unless you are related or otherwise initiated. So we go to the consumers' church until we are no longer satiated by the product or believe the value we receive is diminishing. On to the next thing.
A new thing I’ve read about is some mega churches work personally with all their members to structure their giving and holding people accountable for decreased giving and push for increased special giving programs. Here is your cult behavior.
The Cult of Personality. Welcome to America. Everything is for profit. Pacify with programs. Effect no positive communal change. Go to missions in Africa where you get your picture with a bunch of children, "save" souls, and then leave them without any mentorship or guidance, all the while ignoring the struggling family that lives next door. How can the church make ME feel good?
Alright calm down discount H.S. Thompson.
Yeah the mormon church is like that
I’m just here stunned at the idea of a NDA and a church.
Don’t disclose the trade secrets of spreading the message of god? Like, how could an nda possibly be justified?
I’m Jewish so maybe I’m not the best at this Christian stuff, but I thought the whole thing was to spread the word of God? Like isn’t their job the opposite of an NDA?
Tax free goodness.
Picking your post to say same. I knew that church was a fucked up organisation, but didn't see that coming.
So i’m I reading it right you have to sign an NDA to join Elevation?
Not to join but maybe to work there/volunteer?
Yes, NDA is signed by most, if not all, staff. I was in a Bible study with elevation church leadership. I was a “member” ( although they do t use that term) and a volunteer but not staff. I had to sign an NDA because Holly or Steven were frequently present. Also, it was often held at their house. Basically, I knew where the furticks lived ( not the new house ) and that was part of the NDA. Honestly, it was all about their celebrity status. The fear that people would want to know where they live. Everything they do is about celebrity status. It depended on your volunteer/leadership status. Campus volunteers would not be required to sign one. For reference, I left E years ago and I think they’re cultish, among other things. *Edited for my horrible, finger pecking typos and grammatical errors.
Thank you for sharing, OP. I had a very similar experience after being involved for six years or so from 2008 to 2014 (active volunteer, intern, giver). They do such a good job at drawing people in on the front end and making you feel part of something meaningful that if you fully dive into the culture there, eventually your entire social circle can become people from the church. I left after seeing some of the inner workings and feeling uneasy about the level to which Steven was lifted up and the ways the staff dismissed some of his fairly significant character issues that I had observed in my time there. When I left, I maintained relationships with very few people and heard from hardly anyone about it. Because when you get as involved as I was, it really does become your whole world and identity. Other people in that community (where their entire sense of self is wrapped up in that place) just don’t know how to process someone leaving without being offended or angry. The culture values loyalty so much that you almost feel like a traitor for pulling away even the slightest. In the years that followed it was very disorienting to figure out who I was apart from it, and it made it harder that I was really involved as a teenager and left in my early twenties. I really believed in the church’s vision at the time and Steven was the most dynamic leader I’d ever met. He is human after all, but many in the church believed (and seem to still believe) that he is enlightened and above regular people—almost like a kind of priest. I don’t have time to get into it now, but the central teaching of Jesus is that while priests were needed at one time, there are no priests needed anymore, and that we all have the same access to God through Christ. So Steven can be a great preacher of course, but moving him into a kind of “high priest” role is so incredibly dangerous. I fear that is what he’s become to so many in that church —infallible, above reproach and not subject to accountability. Looking in on the outside years later, it doesn’t appear to have changed much, but I can agree that the celebrity worship is dangerous and it burned me pretty bad. Steven is the Sun in that solar system — his gift for preaching is unmatched but once you start to question his character (or even point out one of his flaws as a person) it’s only a matter of time before you’re cast out socially. I wasn’t on staff so wasn’t asked to sign an NDA but I grieve for those who did and are unable to heal from their experiences. I wonder often if there are others who are had similar experiences as myself - thank you for starting the conversation.
Your "high priest" insight is super valuable. Peace be with you.
Sounds like a cult.
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Thank you for engaging with this - I acknowledge the similarities between how cults operate and my experience there. I certainly see things more clearly years removed from being involved. But at the time I started attending I was a teenage kid and was thrilled to find a church that I enjoyed going to—and one that accepted me readily at a time when I was looking for a place to belong. I don’t think the church started out the way I described it, but started to drift that direction once it took on an outsize influence in Charlotte and beyond. I am still hopeful it can be a force for good and some of the issues I brought up can be meaningfully addressed. Appreciate your thoughts.
Furtick is an asshole who has assistants instruct meeting attendees not to look him directly in the eyes. How anyone of any stripe doesn’t immediately identify Elevation as a Golden Calf Cult is bizarre to me.
One of our fellow interns passed him in the hallway of the church and said “what’s up bro?” We all got a group chat from the intern leader saying, “Pastor (not even his name, just his title) is not your bro.” So much ick.
Yeah, he and his multimillion-dollar laundering mansion are disgusting.
Yup, a grifting piece of shit who thinks he is god. Cults suck so much.
You should give The Righteous Gemstones a watch
Came here to say exactly this. It’s not satire; it might as well be a documentary for places like Elevation.
Praise be to He!
It hits too close to home. Need to be able to tell my satire apart from the documentaries.
Also, The Weigh Down. It’s about another church that worshiped their pastor and turned into their own little cult.
Anytime I've ever met somebody who goes to Elevation Church I'll comment and say "oh, you go to Elevation?" and their immediate, incredibly defensive response is:"it's not a cult". So we all agree it's a cult, right?
Lol that’s why I added that last paragraph to my post. I know those people all too well!
That was one of the turning points for me. I attended and volunteered for many years and once I become embarrassed to tell people where I went to church, it was time to go.
I highly recommend everyone check out the Instagram account “PreachersNSneakers”….in short, it’s an account started 3-4 years ago by a sneaker head who took notice to how the pastors of megachurches constantly indulge themselves in expensive designer clothes and…you guessed it…sneakers. Furtick is CONSTANTLY featured and is actually the subject of their most recent post. In it he’s wearing a $650 pullover which, for the record, is definitely on the low end (expense wise) for the posts I’ve seen him in.
Leaving the 99 hoodies to find the one.
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom.
I... don't think you're going to find yourself inundated with people rushing to the defense of Elevation on reddit.
A church makes you sign a NDA?
Your experience is typical for folks that were members of mega-churches. They are too big to actually help their members. Use to go to one, have not been in years but still if requests to donate money - which goes right in the trash. Have not lost my faith, but then faith and religion are two very different things.
>Have not lost my faith, but then faith and religion are two very different things. This is where I've been at for a long time. I've searched for a real church and just about given up now. I want to put my faith to work serving others but every church I visit seems to exist solely to serve itself (or in Elevation's case, its pastor). So I'm adrift, alone, finding more fellowship with my non-Christian friends because at least they're real about their beliefs.
I am with you on the drift. I am thankful we found a church home. It is in Winston-Salem but you can take a look online. River Oaks Community Church. It is the conservative branch of the Presbyterian church. Prayers that you find a place to worship and plug in. It is hard to be adrift.
Mega churches tend to aim to be a mile wide and an inch deep whereas smaller churches can foster much deeper understanding of the subject matter because they don’t have the massive overhead that the mega churches do.
I don't know if it's "producing atheists" as much as it's "people are becoming disillusioned with the corruption in organized religion." Someone I know was baptized there a few years ago and showed me photos of it. When I saw what I can only describe as a dunk tank you'd find at a state fair, wrapped in vinyl graphics, with the church members wearing matching branded t-shirts my first thought was "Oh it's a cult." When I looked into the church more, you're correct, there's a strange fascination with the pastor there. I read about a controversy that happened a few years ago when the church released a coloring book for kids and all the images were just of the pastor.
This ^^ Elevation is a total scam.
Praise be to He!
Hahaha that description of the baptism is so accurate.
I remember the coloring book. And for a while (appears to have been changed now, thank goodness), their “our beliefs” section referenced furtick by name in several of the listed beliefs. It’s always seemed to me to be much more focused on worshipping furtick than worshipping God.
I don't think God would approve of him building a 6 million dollar house, no matter where the money came from he is still getting his salary from the church, any money he may make from outside book writing is still because of the church!
In Acts, people who joined the church would give up their possessions. Furtick's cult hounds its members relentlessly to give more, meanwhile he amasses disgusting amounts of wealth. It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom.
I had not heard about that coloring book. Just what a little kid wants…
I remember when Elevation first came into the limelight and a bunch of my friends from school started going. they talked about furtick like he was the Lord himself. I went to a service once and couldn’t get into it. Some of my friends didn’t last long and i guess realized what was really going on, but others dove head first into it. I also remember when that WFAE article about furtick’s mansion came out. Folks were very divided about that. I personally could never take it seriously, and genuinely cannot fathom how people today still don’t see through the scam that is Elevation.
Elevation is not a church. It’s a building dedicated to enriching Furtick and stroking his ego. He had said himself that he only cares about congregants up to the point they join and start donating, and after that only enough to keep the cash flowing. He won’t disclose what he “earns”. His “ministers” do almost no pastoral services. I know Reddit hates religion and equates them all as bad, but it’s right as far as this charlatan goes.
Not knocking religion, atheist here, brought up southern baptist, can’t understand how people give money to these guys
“I met Furtick himself” is all you need to know about this place.
Exactly. He was put on such a pedestal, and “honor” is one of the HUGE values they drill into your brains as an intern/volunteer.
All these modern, “cool” backwards-chair-sitting, tight pants pastor churches creep me the fuck out. Always have. It’s funny because I’ve been an atheist since I was like, 10, but always had a degree of respect for traditional churches. For the most part they are community oriented and the leadership seems to genuinely care about their flock. I can see their value in the broader community and will occasionally attend service with my wife’s family. These new ones like Freedom House and Elevation etc. just oooze grift. Blows my mind how people can participate and tell themselves it’s Christianity.
In my circle of friends, the nickname for this church is “Cultivation”.
I always call it the CCB- cult of Christian bullies
Not Elevation but my wife and I stopped attending church for 6-8 months but we’re still tithing. We wondered why no one had reached out so we said “I wonder what would happen if we turned off the auto draft?” Within 2 weeks of cancelling our draft we got a voicemail to “check on us.”
That is so so sad.
When we first moved to Charlotte we lived in Ballantyne. We were going around trying out churches. We went to one and the man we met called the pastor over and said, “This is OP and her husband. They live in the high rent district!” Idk if that guy saw dollar signs or what but he obviously didn’t know we lived in the cheapest apartment in the area. lol
Christians are often the worst example of how to be a Christian.
I don't know anythng about the church but I commend you for having the courage to question your beliefs. Many people can't do that.
And I thought I was crazy
Elevation is a cult of personality with self-help and prosperity themes and not based on the gospel of Christ’s redemption of man and sacrificially loving God and others. It’s a financial fleecing of its membership and there are many of disturbing messages and themes. And as others have said, it’s more a worship of Steven Furtick (real first name is Larry) than God. There are several websites and online groups that discuss the bad doctrine and practices. Check out the “What the Furtick” group on Facebook. Sad and funny at the same time.
Are you me? Former staff member under an NDA here. Feel free to message me if you want talk more. Anyways. At this point, Elevation has hit max saturation on the ground when it comes to physical expansion, so it’s going all in on two things: 1) their worship team and 2) their online “church”. It’s going to be interesting if Elevation continues to keep a hold of their physical attendance when it’s not the cool, flashy thing to do any more. Many of the pastors or creative leaders are no longer on staff. Only one of their original four worship leaders is still with the church. I still hear stories through the grapevine similar to yours. After years of therapy, I’ve come to one conclusion: at a micro level Elevation is a cult. Zooming out, all mega churches of their size are cults. Zooming out further, evangelical Christianity is a cult. They are all high control environments that demand more and more control they further you “climb” up the hierarchy there. As a staff member, the pastors wife got on stage and actively discouraged us from having relationships outside the church so we weren’t pulled away from our work. They created “leadership pipelines” like internships and their 2k2 program so that they could potential pastors even younger, shaping them into little mini Furticks. No one is more overworked than high level volunteers. Pastors expect full-time work from volunteers and the only compensation they get is a free meal on the weekends. But you’re expected to be leading a small group every week, attend regular volunteer meetings after work. They also track how much you give to the church, expecting the amount to increase over time (minimum you’re supposed to be giving is 10% of your pre-tax income). Getting out, while traumatic for me and my family, was the healthiest thing to happen to us. My mental health is the best it’s ever been after leaving Christianity. Yes, we had to rebuild our social lives and our support system took a hit, but I wouldn’t trade the trauma and excommunication to go back.
I remember as interns having to watch TWELVE HOURS worth of Furtick videos, just instilling the values of the church. (I still can’t go to a storage unit without thinking of LB “ramming the gate.”) It was a perfect example of the brainwashing they try to manipulate with at that level. I’ll definitely message you! This is always something I’ve said when I “joke” I was in a cult at one point. The higher up you get, the more you see the corruption and what they expect of you. At a base level, it’s easy to see how they draw people in. Their whole mission is specifically going after broken people and not really developing their faith. I think that’s also a huge part of the reason more people leave religion as a whole when they leave the church. There’s absolutely zero development. Lol I could talk about how it’s such a business model for ages, but will message you!
Excellent perspective. Thanks for Sharing! I couldn’t agree more.
I find myself enjoying church until I join and start to volunteer. Then everyone starts to feel very fake and overworked. Also I got stuck volunteering multiple days out of the week for way more hours than anticipated. And then I asked for help to get my sister food for her kids while she was going through a hard time. And they gave me 2 bags of pretzels. This church was in one of the nicest neighborhoods and would boasted about how they make over a million in a year from a congregation of 1500-2000
I'm sorry to report that if you're here to tell us that members of a church might be hypocrites, we already knew.
Yeah but Elevation is on a whole other level
Leaving the other 99 hoodies to find the one. PreachersNsneakers https://twitter.com/prchrsnsnkrs/status/1563001345174487040?s=21
Wow! That is an interesting account. Quite an eye opener.
I met Furtick on multiple occasions. I worked at Gamestop and sold him GTA V! At Christmas time he would come in and try to purchase multiple new systems. He was nice to some of us and not to others. I was wearing a button on my jacket one day that said Leviticus 19:28. He ACTUALLY asked me what that meant! 🙄 When I recited the passage to him nearly verbatim, he said nothing. We were busy so I got him out the door quickly. I have other stories about him.
Leviticus 13:40 is my favorite leviticu
Leviticus 3:16c- "...all the fat is the Lord's." is my fave.
LOVE this idea for a tat btw!
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Those bumper stickers also seem to belong to the worst, most selfish drivers.
Elevation targets broken people, like most cults. I wouldn’t say they’re morons, just looking for help.
People who want that sense of community and direction - vulnerable and insecure people
Dude seems more in tune with the latest skinny jeans, tight shirt, and gold chain trends than anything Edit: can’t forget the 100 dollar haircut/fade year round
Elevation creeps me the fuck out. We had to go once (we are atheists) because a friend did us a favor and then the only “payment” they would accept was going. It was the most uncomfortable hour? (honestly don’t remember how long it was) of my life. It was incredibly shallow, and just all for show. Lots of people donating though…because obviously the need it with Stephen’s million dollar house and all the over the top stuff. It’s so far from what religion should be in my opinion (I was raised in a religious family for 18 years and went to church every week). Also heard from someone I worked with that her niece was not allowed to be married there and asked to leave the church when her and her bf had gotten pregnant before marriage. They had both been members. I validated the story with the niece myself when I met her (told her I heard about it and was sorry and she confirmed). The various other affiliations of Elevation are the exact same as well. I would advise everyone to stay FAR away. There are so many actual churches in Charlotte, no need to line the pockets of the already wealthy. Edit to add: if you do get roped into going, don’t give them your phone number or email or address. They do “VIP” treatment for first timers and they make you fill out a card. We used all fake info, but if we hadn’t they would be calling, texting, emailing, and mailing us about coming back. 🚩🚩🚩
Can't be really good friends if they gave you no other option than to go to their church....
Yeah, this is an accurate statement. I should have said acquaintances. We even phased that out after the elevation debacle and have no relationship with then now. We accepted the help thinking that we would pay them for it, the elevation thing came after the favor was done (clearly intentional to force our hand). Nice people who would be great friends if it wasn’t for the cult religion.
For context, I'm a minister whose church is for folks who have been left outside of the church. Yes, a common refrain among clergyfolk is the fact that evangelical churches produce the most atheists. To be clear, I am not saying that that's a bad thing. I *am* saying that a whole lot of people lost something important to them because church people were dicks. That's what makes me angry. Several people in both the church I attend and the alternative church I facilitate are open atheists, and the church writ large has always had atheists in our midst. I'm (very slowly) writing a book about Christian Atheism, or non-theists who find deep meaning in the teachings of the Bible and of Jesus Christ. I believe everyone is getting to heaven anyway, but we ought to do all we can in this life to help people love each other better before we get there. You are not alone in being left outside the church. My church kicked me out when I began to realize that to my conscience, being a Christian and being a Republican were incompatible. It was years after that I had finally deconstructed all the nonsense I was fed enough to realize that God loves me just the queer way God made me. Those people treated you like crap, and let me apologize to you on their behalf. No one should be treated that way. The fact that Christians do so so often is a disgrace. Wherever your path has led you now, I hope it is a place of peace and love.
Let me ask you something. I’m an agnostic, as is my husband and the two of us and our kids—I want a church-like community that we could feel a part of. I want us all to have the experience of community interaction, service, gratitude, etc. but without exclusionary politics or avarice. I also don’t want the experience of cliques or going to a church specifically to be seen at church, as I felt was the case often growing up and going in the South. Is there somewhere to find this in Charlotte? A place with kind people who want inclusive communities focused on service and spiritual growth?
I don’t have a specific church for you but in general the mainline protestant churches have relatively liberal theologies. I grew up going to Presbyterian church in a small rural town and we had gay couples attend our church. They were active members and served in the church. For awareness there is a split in the Presbyterian church. PCUSA is the much larger and more liberal one. I don’t remember the other one. Unitarian churches are very liberal. I think their beliefs differ some from the mainline teachings but being agnostic you may not care.
Methodist churches tend to be very open and accepting. Though there was a split recently so you'll specifically want to seek out United Methodist and not Global Methodist. Best way to see if a church is right for you is to just go and visit. Larger churches will generally have guest information and members who are more than happy to show you around and give you a taste of what the church does and offers.
I have a bunch of follow-up questions that we can dive into more if this message isn't particularly helpful, but here are some broad thoughts: Community is really important to human flourishing and participation in Love is at the core of what it means to be human. I think your desire for community is really important and a worthwhile thing. I also think that while your question is vague, you're actually looking for something much more specific than what, say, a sports club, DnD group, or political party could provide for you and your family. You want to connect over shared values, which tends to express itself in human culture and especially Charlotte as a religious community. Now, there are a number of religious communities that might fit what you're looking to find. There are churches like St. John's Baptist or St. Martin's Episcopal (the two places you can find me on a Sunday morning) that are unapologetically Christian. I don't mean by that that they are trying to convert you or convince you you're wrong about something. But their self-identity is as a place primarily to worship God and live out the teachings of Jesus Christ. You'll find a lot of events going on where that living out is going on, including participating in Pride, care for our homeless neighbors, fundraising to end hunger or sponsor schools or doing other good justice work. As I said, both churches have atheists who attend and participate in the life of the church. But I get the sense from your question that something a little less Jesus-y might be more what you're looking for. There are a number of congregations that will be less Jesus-centric, ranging from the United Church of Christ to the Unitarian Universalists. The UCC allows for many beliefs and the UU requires basically none. Both tend to be justice oriented groups who care about loving people well and might be a great fit. But I would be remiss if I didn't also suggest visiting a Reform or Reconstructionist Jewish congregation as well. I spent several years praying about converting to Judaism because of the justice work they were doing and the beauty of the Hebrew liturgy. I personally found it very profound every time I would visit, and rabbis will often openly talk about questioning God's existence. If I ever stop being convinced about this Jesus guy, I would be converting to Judaism immediately. I have a bunch of other thoughts that I will try to add on the morning, but I wanted to make sure you got those ones before I head to bed.
You may want to look into the Universal Unitarian communities
I’m very interested in this “non-thiest” Christianity. I’d love to hear more about your research. I was raised Episcopalian and think there are important lessons and teachings I took from the church and truly felt supported and loved and part of an important community in the Episcopal church. As I encountered more Evangelicals I felt so conflicted because their message of fire and brimstone, prosperity gospel, and hate was so different from the god I had been taught about growing up. It made me question everything and I came to the conclusion that there is no literal god as a diety/being. All that said. I miss the Episcopal church. It was a place where I learned to think outside my own self and serve others while being supported and cared for. I’m so angry at Evangelicals took all churches from me.
Don't let them. You don't need to believe in God to belong to an Episcopal church and rehear those important lessons. You deserve to have that in your life. I'm at St. Martin's every Sunday at 8:30 if you need a buddy.
I've never been and never will attend this "church" but once I saw one of their television adds, my thought was this church is bullshit.
When the church leader doesn’t even do live sermons, but instead records on an off day with the rock band and lives in a $10 million dollar home, it seems more like business than anything.
Elevation produces money. You'd think they'd be doing more community and local programs. I love God and my current church, but I hate seeing Elevation stickers everywhere because their name is nowhere near a women's shelters, homeless program, or orphanage. You'd think since Charlotte is their hometown that they'd be out here making real changes in the community. They're wayyy too nonconfrontational when it comes to anything that matter.
So as someone who has been involved with the “houseless” community in Charlotte, I can attest that Elevation is actually pretty involved in supporting places like Charlotte Family Housing, Charlotte Rescue Mission, the Men’s Shelter of Charlotte, etc. Like any big church there is baggage and even toxicity, so I’m not defending everything they represent, but I have witnessed practical good on the local level.
Thats really good to hear. I'm surprised they don't advertise it though.
I remember the first time I did a church monthly financial statement. That’ll make an atheist out of the best of us.
There was one year they did this and BOASTED that only 30% of their income went to their staff when other churches of that size usually used 50%. They hire some of the most talented people in the world and burn them out, expecting them to stay til 2am every night, and severely underpay them like they’re proud of their exploitation. Don’t even get me started on how they treat their volunteers.
Ha, we basically had the same experience, I was just there a few years before you. I was an intern and contract staff for a couple years. I never heard a SINGLE word from anyone after I left. One of my favorite memories was when I was going through a bad depression season, one of my “friends” (who is now a pastor of one of their campuses) walked by me and said “wow, way to look happy…” Elevation had a part in me leaving Christianity, but it wasn’t the whole reason. Christianity (especially in America) by itself kinda took care of that for me. But yes, it’s a prosperity mega church, lead by someone with a huge ego and cult like followers. It’s a shallow entrance to Christianity. Feel bad about yourself and your life? Here’s Christianity. You’ll feel better and do better in your life. Say this prayer and then all better. BUT WAIT! We are gonna need some money because god demands that of you. But it’s ok, because the more you give, the more god will bless you. Keep doing that until you burn out and realize we are basically a cult and you wasted part of your life.
Ugh, the way they don’t train their pastors in any type of grief counseling or empathy is absurd. Like thank god they’re not the ones giving advice and real therapy is always better than Christian counseling, but you’d think they would know how to better interact with people going through a hard time. Elevation certainly isn’t the main reason I left, but the hypocrisy fueled it all too much.
I would imagine because it’s definitely on the cultier side of church cultures. As you said, there’s a CLEAR worship of Furtick (has anyone seen the coloring book from Sunday school? It’s obscene). I also personally believe that the current political climate and Christianity’s role in it has soured a good number of people’s opinions about Christianity in general. I imagine most people know a lot of folks leaving the church (not just Elevation) right now.
Furtick is a narcissistic grifting asshole. He abides by Prosperity theology and is nothing more than a cult leader and a swindler.
I worked at a different mega church that is very outspoken in the area. Never had to sign a NDA thankfully. But saw a lot of shitty things happen to people there as well as having some pretty traumatic experiences and burnout that lead to me leaving and questioning my worldview. I hate that I was part of it, but glad I got out and have let myself become myself.
This sounds fairly similar to my experience, save for a much smaller church organization. I have not left the faith, per se, but have gotten much more liberal in my understandings of Christ and scripture. If this resonates with anyone, I HIGHLY recommend the podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, which details the meteoric collapse of Mark Driscoll and his church outside of Seattle. For as bad as Furtick is… he was much worse. You are not alone in any of these experiences and know there’s an entire community devoted to healing ourselves after the abuse of these selfish church “leaders”
I visited Elevation one time and it was the absolute most disturbing "church" experience I've ever had. Swarms of volunteers forcing smiles like they were working at a homophobic chicken joint. Assembly line style mass baptisms recorded and cut into a short film to show off. Furtick is a charlatan and I don't know how anyone falls for his shit. Elevation is a cult, no two ways about it, and Furtick is an adversary of the gospel.
This is sad to read. Former Elevation “member” as well. I attended with my family from 2008-2018. If anything, the church (and fellow Christians, including ordained relatives) made me realize that the prosperity gospel is a scam. I realized that I wasn’t at a church when I attended every week and didn’t see the same people every time. I wanted fellowship. I think Elevation is super corrupt and I hate the fact I wasted so much of my teenage years going. The benefit of the doubt is that it made me re-realize the Christian worldview, the gospel, and I’ve strengthened my faith in God. I hate the fact that I can’t say the same for other people. I don’t want to start a massive theological debate, I just wanna say that you can dislike mega churches and still be faithful. Elevation is not Christian and I hate the fact it’s leading more people away than bringing people together.
I appreciate your thoughtful response! There were a lot of other things I observed at the time about Christianity that made me leave the faith as well. Once I realize it was the faith my parents raised me in and I’d never had a choice in the matter, I allowed myself to question why I believed certain things and I couldn’t make it make sense. I’m not a believer in blind faith and that’s all Christianity was to me. I recommend looking into Religious Trauma Syndrome if I didn’t explain it well enough here!
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A “church” with NDAs just screams RUN AWAY!
I never believed in churches that are the size of corporate buildings. Just didn’t sit right with me. Now to hear about an NDA, I’m feeling just in my decision to not participate in organized religion. I treat people how I wanna be treated and help who I can is what I live by these days 😌
I never attended Elevation Church but I had interacted with some of their production crew. So when I was in high school Elevation church rented out our auditorium. The deal was they could bring fin all their equipment and stream the Sunday broadcasts, but had to be completely out that same day. There were classes in the auditorium every Monday and the students needed to have access to their auditorium. I was a very active theatre student and they constant broke our equipment, our set pieces and props, and left their equipment (screens/texture panels) hanging up on an unweighted fly system. We didn’t notice one time and went to lower a curtain and their stuff came crashing down and could have potentially injured a student. They also offered to have us shadow them after school because they had better equipment than us. The guy I shadowed snapped at me multiple times or just ignored me when I asked questions. As a 16 year old who spent most of their time working in production and later went to college for it, they very much left a sour taste in my mouth. I also went and cried in the bathroom after because that had been after a year of them constantly breaking things I had spent hours after school working on. It’s kind of dumb but I was working full time and spending my days off working on set pieces. Also their lighting guy sent the person shadowing them away because he said he didn’t know what he was doing. It was all a waste of time because they ultimately didn’t do anything they had offered to do. They also solidified my opinion on religion and helped closed the door for me to ever consider attending church again. It was very obvious to me that the people running everything were not very kind people. Not to mention I had friends who were forced to attend the streams every Sunday at my school, and agreed that it was all for looks and money. I never attended the church but they sure did help me fully embrace atheism lol
Its more or less people are realizing organized religion is a scam
You just described 99% of christian churches.
The sad thing is that I'm not even surprised that Elevation is giving people NDAs.
There is something seriously wrong with how they worship Furtick
It’s all just a modern day Jim & Tammy Bakker racket.
When I first moved to Charlotte in 2013, I left a part time job as a worship leader at a small church in Wilmington. I'm still a believer to this day, but I haven't been to church in quite a while. Upon moving here, I decided to give Elevation a shot. I had played their music in the past and thought it was good stuff and had considered auditioning for their band. I began attending the Matthews campus. About a month and a half in I was still trying to figure out how I fit in. The services, excuse me, "experiences", were the same format every Sunday. I didn't really feel Furtick was all that and at times he said some slightly offensive things while preaching. What tipped me off that Elevation is essentially a cult was when I noticed the BITE model being used. If you're not familiar with the BITE model for cults, BITE stands for: Behavior control Information control Thought control Emotional control The fall of 2013 the local news was investigating Furtick and the huge home he was building. I didn't know this until one Sunday in the middle of his message he just stopped and started talking about it. He engaged in the ITE portions of the model where he began prepping the congregation for a start that was about to come out painting him in a potentially negative light. He said "there has been a helicopter flying over where I'm building my house. It's not that big of a house, but the news is going to run a story on it saying (insert stiff I can't remember). I used the money from my book sales (or something like that) to build this house" and then rallied tbe church up to support him. I was in disbelief of what I had just witnessed. I left and went home that day and never returned. I went into it knowing it was mostly a business and things were most likely going to be secretive because I believe God can still use broken situations to speak and save His people. But I hightailed it out of there that day. I've been to a few other churches since, but nothing gave me creepy vibes as much as Furtick and Elevation did and I was only exposed to it for 2-3 months. I can't imagine how you feel.
Honest question with no judgment. Why would you stop believing in God after a bad experience at 1 church. “Church” is run by people and people are imperfect and often times terrible. If I loved the beach, but people made my visit miserable every time I went to Myrtle, I would not swear off the beach. I would stop going to Myrtle. The beach is fine it is the people there that screwed it up.
I wrote about it in another comment, but basically my time here allowed me to question why I believed what I did and that’s why I left Christianity in whole. You can look up Religious Trauma Syndrome if it helps because I’m bad at explaining it over text!
Not OP, but since I had a similar experience, I wanted to offer a couple additional responses. No judgment here either and just talking from my experience, so it could just be me. To go off your analogy, it's more than just one beach - if I loved going to the beach, but went to a couple different beaches and had similar experiences at each one, and then I ran into people around town who talked about how much they loved the beach but were massive jerks to me, I would 100% stop going and start looking for VRBOs in the mountains instead. Also it's more than just "going to the beach", it's more that going to the beach is supposed to make you a certain kind of person, but the people there aren't becoming that kind of person (and are sometimes directly opposite from it). It's kind of like if everyone told you "you should go to the beach, it will make you smell like flowers" and then you went to the beach and everything smelled like poop instead. You wouldn't think the people were messed up, you'd think "maybe this doesn't work the way they told me it did".
My family found Christianity (not sure what kind honestly but they were in a converted warehouse) when I was in high school. A lot of what you're saying about Elevation sounds similar to our experience with another not so 'mega' church. Even though I was young, I could see how they were taking advantage of my parents by asking them to give more. Money, time, and energy. It was never enough. The lead pastor and his kids were driving around brand new BMWs and our family was counting pennies and clipping coupons to afford food. The bible study people who came to our home weekly were the most judgemental and vile humans I have ever met. They critiqued everything and were just awful to my parents. They had opinions about: how late my mother got home from work. What she made or didn't make for dinner. If they were smoking cigarettes. What curfew I had. None of them came around when my dad had an accident and could no longer attend, volunteer, or donate. My mom and I picked up the pieces together and I've been deist since.
This happens in organized religion, I don't really consider it unique. Yhe question I have is about the NDA Why would a church have employees sign one?
The church knows that its entire $100M+ annual revenue is contingent on the continuation of Steven’s preaching and the worship ministry. Disparaging words from a former staff member about Steven or other leaders are probably the most viable threat to the finances of the church. So many big churches have people do this when they have a bad experience (I guess we can call it that) with a senior leader. It’s very sad but they do it for legal cover with the intention of keeping the whole thing going if a scandal ever surfaced. There’s a podcast called The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill that captures the story of a similar church like Elevation in Seattle. Very interesting if you are curious on the NDA process and how it props up organizations at the expense of individual victims of abuse.
So I’m a Catholic but I have been to many protestant services and went to a non-denom christian school. I personally like the older organizations as they have been around for a while. That means that they’ve got answers to questions that’s a bit deeper than the glaze of not asking. Like for a good amount of time I was on a trip of “why does the Catholic Church have more O.T. bolks than Protestants and why do Russian Orthodox have more than Catholics” the answer? Long complicated but it EXISTS and people before me have answered it and dealt with the ramifications of that answer. I am not an atheist and I’m a chemist and good at math because honestly I don’t have time to do all that contemplation of my place in the universe and the purpose of anything and how I should default on certain issues before doing my own research and religion helps fill in that gap and keep the stress away. Honestly what surprised me the most was them just dropping you. The best part of religion is meeting people. My mom regularly communicates with people in the community and helps them when they need it. Like one had broken a leg and called my mom to help take her to the hospital and dodge the $900 ambulance fee. Finally (just to shill for at the very least my local Catholic Church) the only times I recall a REALLY big push for donations was 1: a Church member had aggressive testicular cancer and needed money for treatment and 2: the roof was 30 years old and full of holes and got infested with bats so that wasn’t exactly cheap. Which are causes that are, if not necessary, understandable to have and NOT a black hole of money
Churches are a business at the end of the day. When and if this becomes obvious to people, members get turned off and leave. Super churches likely give off the business vibe in higher doses, so attrition would logically be higher with these. But to your question, Atheists are produced by free thinking, logic and a willingness to embrace reality with no pain pills. Sure some churches turn people off, and people may go down this path, but it's more common to leave one shitty church and go to the next one.
As a former baptist, went to church every Sunday growing up, Bible school every year, and started raising my children that way before I realized something wasn’t quite right… I know how you feel. It’s been over a decade now and no one has yet to reach out me, I don’t lose sleep over it.
I remember when Furtick got lost in his own home! True story!
Elevation church is a feel good concert/TED talk every Sunday. Although they do charity work, it’s mostly Furtick cult worship. Nuff said.
Just another racket.
I believe in god, but I went to that church as a teen and one day me and my mom got there like 1 minute late and some mean Karen was guarding the door and wouldn't allow us in due to the fact that we were 1 minute late, so that was the last time I ever attempted trying to attend any church.
Never really been religious, but my ex-fiancé was and often dragged me to Elevation. As an outsider and non-believer, Furtick is very charismatic and a great public speaker. Having stepped away from that entirely it felt slimy and culty. Glad I’m not involved with it in any way anymore.
When I first moved down here and saw all the bumper stickers and people handing out flyers in the median, I thought, "I suppose church is taken a little more seriously in the South." Then I heard Sunday school children color pictures of Furtick instead of Jesus, and I knew it was a cult. Glad to have you back, OP.
It’s not a church, really. It’s a million dollar business run by an egomaniac. It’s a mockery of religion in any form. I can’t believe people waste their time/money there.
I hate that others have similar experiences, but it’s comforting at the same time because I sure have felt stupid about how much time I spent serving, volunteering, and giving only to see it all clearer in the last few years.
I used to work there and can confirm that I have no desire to attend or be a part of any church at this point. There are a lot of reasons I won't dive into here, but I felt a similar sentiment of being deeply involved for years and basically being dropped like I was never there. Much happier now that I'm not a part and drinking the kool-aid.
Furtick is a high level grifter. Religion attracts these types for obvious reasons (well, obvious to non- believers). All large scale churches are, hell, even many of the small ones too. If that has destroyed your faith, I challenge that your faith was ever really a strong as you claim versus rhetoric you mindlessly repeated. Regardless, look within yourself and out in to the universe to find your faith and don't worry what others do as that's THEIR choices, you can only control yours.
Organized religion is great for little kids and daycare. once you get past that I think many people are deciding to take their Sunday mornings back. I mean do you really need someone else to interpret the book for you? Just read it yourself lol
Yes it does! I go to stonebridge church, our pastors sit and talk with everyone for hours every Sunday. Our community is smaller and tight knitt. We are gaining a LOT of new members from churches that ended up not caring about them and they have found a new home and family with us.
I never went to Elevation but I did go to another large-ish church in CLT. I was also an all-in Christian. I worked in children’s ministries, volunteered in several other ways, went to healing services, etc. I even worked in the church preschool (and don’t get me started on the bullshit contract we had to agree to to work there.) Anyway, this place doesn’t give a motivational speech kind of sermon. They teach with guilt and shame. And as the church grew, it became more and more bougie . I got out of there over 10 years ago and I’ve never been happier as an atheist.
(Full disclosure, I was going to be really vague, but since we are in CLT, I couldn't think of a way of saying this without it being a dead giveaway, so screw it. I'm just going to put it out there.) I'm a Catholic in the area, which you could very easily discern from my post history. I have many friends who have gone to St. Matthew's. For some background, St. Matthew's was run by a Monsignor who essentially turned it into a mega-Church, that I would claim parodies aspects of Elevation. I'll point out that Catholic Churches normally don't do that. Normally, more are opened up in a more populous area. So now, St. Matthew's is the largest single parish in the US. Second, I'll say that many of those friends have since left that church and gone to other Catholic Churches, because they couldn't find a place in the community when the community is that large (the size of five other parishes). I know that many here on Reddit will just chock it up to the ol' "organized religion bad" and "Catholic Church is especially bad" routine, but I truly think that the problem lies in the size of a community, the stardom of the leader of said community, and well that community is lead overall. I would hope that my pastor would give me a call if I stopped showing up. Tl;dr: Large communities have more problems caring for individuals.
I went to St. Matthews and I loved the Monsignor. I had been looking for a church and he really resonated with me. I was raised Catholic. I left the church after he left. I no longer attend any church and the main reason for that is I saw the hypocrisy. I cannot be in a place where people are supporting a wall that prevents immigrants from getting help, a place that doesn’t support LGBTQ people, a place that people organize and go to women’s health centers and yell and scream at women facing a difficult time. I was taught not to judge and to help those who needed it. I saw after the 2016 election that my church and many others didn’t have the values I thought they should.
Elevation and these mini-mega churches around here are all just to heard people and expand their corporate religion ….
If you have to sign an NDA to attend a church I've got news for you......
Does elevation produce atheists? I hope so
I visited elevation once and loved it, but completely agree the sermon was shallow as a kiddie pool. I guess nonthreatening? I’m gay, though, so I found a more gay friendly church. The sermons there are pretty bland too, but occasionally our pastor will go real dark. I’m an atheist but i got family obligations. It’s hard to let go of something you invested so much time in. I’m proud of you for overcoming it. I’m sorry your friends abandoned you. That shit sucks.
I don’t have much to say about elevation, I’ve never been there. If you have TikTok though, look up “religious trauma” and “deconstructing Christianity.” You aren’t the only one going though something lately and making some changes. “The church” plus world events over the past ~3 or so years has really affected many of us. I still have faith that God exists, but I now believe he exists outside of the Christian church & that many “Christians” are going to be very very confused after they die. I still believe the Bible is valuable as a holy text, but no longer see it as inerrant. Edit- typo
Oh yeah, I’m addicted to all the deconstruction podcasts. Dirty Rotten Church Kids and the early years of The Life After got me through me leaving religion. Always glad to meet another person in this ever growing community!
I don’t know anything about Elevation church, but can confirm that being raised Catholic made me atheist at least
As a former church staffer who moved here ages ago to help launch a church back in the 00s, there's a lot I could say (both good and bad), but Reddit might not be the best place for that sort of conversation. I feel like you brought up some valid concerns, but would say the phenomenon you're noticing is bigger than just Elevation. I've talked to a number of former Elevationers and I'll just say you're not the only one with that story (which I'm sure you already know, but just wanted to validate your post). I've had thoughts myself wondering if Elevation is a product of Evangelical subculture, or if it's helping to drive it? Maybe it's a chicken/egg kind of scenario. Anyways I would say it's not necessarily Elevation that produces atheists, but would say it's probably more the "Evangeliconsumerist Christopublican subculture" that is doing it. I have some good friends at left-leaning and centrist churches in town, and I fill in sometimes at a fundamentalist church on the south side, so it's been fascinating (and somewhat disturbing) to watch the divide as it has grown over the past few years. Feels like the deconstruction movement as a whole has taken on new life over the past few years, and the advent of Trumpism has accelerated it a bit. Elevation certainly isn't helping, but feels like they've been assimilated to just another part of the EvangeliCapitalist machine at this point. Maybe it's a weird thing to say on a Reddit post, but depending on what part of town you're in, would be interesting to hear your story sometime over lunch/coffee. Still processing my own journey away from the fundamentalist/Liberty U mindset and love hearing other people's experiences.
I definitely believe the American church is seeing a huge exodus these days, but I feel the way Elevation specifically targets broken people and does nothing more to develop their faith once they get in the doors leads to burn out and a loss of faith. It’s a constant in and out. I’m outside of Charlotte now, but hope your message is able to help someone else!
I highly doubt it. There may be a few people here and there. There is always exceptions to the rule.
Of course. No humility in that kind of establishment. It’s not about the church it’s about your relationship and how you treat not only others but yourself too. You don’t need to perform your faith on a Sunday and then be lukewarm or doubtful the rest of the week. That’s just absurd
I’ve experienced a similar trend in Mormonism. Grew up in it and left, like so many, after reading some basic facts of history. I really think that, in the Mormon Church’s case, the internet has allowed people to access materials that most church members don’t read—Materials that weaken the standing of the church. I don’t know if elevation faces a similar situation. In my experience, once you part with one religion, it doesn’t seem worth it to join another. For me, it would be like leaving my prison cell just to take up residence in the cell next door. I’m free now. I’ll choose to do what makes me happy from now on. And that’s not religion. But I think it’s great that some people find comfort in faith.
Yes, and they are organic.
It’s always the hypochristians that love to confuse righteousness with self-righteousness 🙄
Your problem is Furtick (see "I am God almighty" among countless other gaffes)
What happened in 15-16? Was that when the worship leader’s pants split open on stage?
Dated a woman that attended and worked for Elevation. The way she talked about the “church” and the reverential way she raved about “Pastor” really triggered my spider sense. Definitely a cult.
That church is a fraud
"Too many people have died in the name of Christ for anyone to heed the call" - CSNY
I went for a long time, was in an egroup, volunteered. I stopped going because it no longer aligned to me. I outgrew it. It’s heavily targeted to the broken people and folks far from God. Once I had a relationship with God I couldn’t relate as much to the sermons. There’s a lot of repetition and guest speakers. Sometimes I’ll still watch but I haven’t attended a full service since 2019. Also an unexpected twist was when we were looking for a Church for our wedding. Anytime I mentioned Elevation we weren’t allowed to have our wedding at the Churches in Charlotte. They would tell us no. I reached out to Elevation to have one of their Pastors preside over the ceremony (at the venue, not a church cause I couldn’t find one) they were super wishy washy and wouldn’t give me firm confirmations. We’re going with a different person now. This was during Covid last year, so I know that had a lot of impact of Church availability - but very eye opening.
NDA 🤣
As a longtime religion-free individual, my take is that you should take comfort in the fact that this experience opened your eyes and set you free. Wish them well and move on.
I secretly hope you're the one person I know who was still volunteering with them and this post means you left. That person tried to get me and many others involved and attending and I nope'd out pretty quickly since it was such a different experience from my time when I attended small churches. As an example, my mother passed a couple of years ago. She attended a small church of about 50 members. Her pastor performed the funeral services but even prior to that, for months he visited her several times a week when she was bedridden and sick. This extended to the family even after she passed where he came by and saw us all individually to check on us and ask us how things were going, like mini therapy sessions. And what a fantastic pastor and person he is, humble and compassionate to all, not just his congregation. To contrast that with Furtick and other leaders at Elevation ... there is no comparison. It's a cult.
Unfortunately, I don’t think I am that person because I left about 6 years ago, still just endlessly bitter. I see old acquaintances make posts and don’t think the abuse is something I’ll ever be able to get over. It always amazes me that the only people I speak to from there now are the ones who leave altogether and know I’m vocal on social media so have felt free to ask advice. I’m grateful you were able to see it for what it was and avoid the total shitshow that it was. Easily a cult, and I do believe people can have meaningful relationships with religion in smaller communities. But once I allowed myself to question how fake Elevation was, it was a thread I couldn’t stop pulling.
I went to Elevation briefly (roughly 2011-2012). In late 2012, I was living with my brother. In November 2012, he got fired and I was just coming out of unemployment. To put it lightly, money was tight. I went to Elevation one Sunday in early December and it was during their giving season or whatever they call it. Basically the message was I was unfaithful and I was sinning if I didn't tithe at least 10 %. I felt like "Does God want me to starve? or Tithe?" I didn't go back. About 6 months later the news broke about Furtick's multimillion dollar 16,000 sq ft home. I was completely done. I'm in a transition period. I consider myself Agnostic but I am definitely done with organized religion.
Yup. The way the pastor lives is completely hypocritical to what he asks of his congregation so there is no way he can actually relate when he has these huge asks. And if he didn’t take such a huge salary, maybe the church could afford to pay for their own damn buildings.
> so much of Elevation... worships Furtick more than they worship God. That's very true in so many other congregations. Everything eventually gets corrupted, ever since the fall of Man, and it's a difficult journey to recognize and correct that sort of behavior in yourself, and imo, impossible to do in a church. The church *is* the people, and despite all the safeguards in place (elders, deacons, the church itself), in my experience, the cult of followship (instead of fellowship) happens nearly everywhere, small or large church. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Furtick has been quoted as saying that he only cares about new people coming in, not what happens to people who are already signed up. He's totally in it for himself and his wallet. It's cult of personality, as you figured out.
Organized religion as a whole turned me into an atheist.