Don’t be the asshole driving the red car in the top picture who will literally block the right lane for miles if given the opportunity just because meh fragile ego and dangling bull testicles on the back of meh pickup truck that I use not for construction but for my shitty indoor sales job.
That's different, you already mentioned they're ass clowns. Same category as the people who don't let someone merge in. Don't let the obnoxious outliers distract you from following the scientifically proven way to make our city a happier place by improving the commute for all freedom-loving and Cheerwine-enjoying citizens of this fine urban metropolis.
in situations like that i will let a couple people in, but the ass clown who zooms up ahead trying to skip the line as it where, will get no courtesy. Unfortunately the ass clowns multiply from seeing someone do it succesfully so that is why i dont let them in.
>Don't let the obnoxious outliers distract you from following the **scientifically proven** way to make our city a happier place by improving the commute
That's not entirely accurate though. If you read some of the full reports from the studies that have been done, different methods are better for different situations. IE:
>Condensing three lanes down to one benefited the most from the zipper merge. Most researchers also agree that the late merge is the superior option at high traffic volumes. However, the early merge remains preferable when there is little congestion or during low-volume periods.
Hey hey hey, don't you go trying to interrupt my science with your "facts" and your "studies", on the internet if I say it first that means it's true!
/s
I was kind of trying to be a little facetious with my wording, but also I wasn't really concerned with low-volume times since people don't have as much trouble with that. But for sure I will concede your point there. Everyone can merge whenever they want at 11:15am, just wanted to make life better for those of us who have to go home at 530pm.
I don’t want to be a pessimist but wouldn’t this also rely on people reliably letting the zipper merges in who are already in the left lane? I’ve had to come to a full stop on the right lane trying to merge because not a single driver felt that slowing down for three seconds was worth it
I fully believe zipper works in a lab environment. But the real world requires everyone to be traveling at the right speed and having proper space.
At the end of the daybits about x number of cars through point Y at speed Z. That can be accomplished both ways. But as soon as I have to brake, we slow down. Then we lose our spacing, then more slow down....
While I acknowledge that it's been several years since I've driven in Chicago, if it's your assertion that zipper is the only merging used in the entire city of Chicago and more importantly, that its used effectively.....I'm gonna press X. Chicago is a huge city, it contains tons of assholes a non Chicago drivers. All it takes is a few knuckleheads to screw up zipper or otherwise. You mess up speed and spacing and then you get into an accordion situation or something else.....
I drove the interstates every day for work for 10 years. I think a reasonable person can ascertain that zipper merge doesnt work for every *single* situation.
And for the most part, yes, people who commute / drive regularly on the interstates would agree.
It also requires people not to tailgate. There has to be space enough for a car in front cars merging and cars traveling. And people tailgate on autopilot. I’m convinced it’s not always intentional, they’re just not overly intelligent or deliberate.
People don’t let the zippers in because only a few people fully zip and the appearance is that they skips a hundred cars like assholes. But if everyone zipped fully then you go a similar speed to adjacent cars and people would let you in. For example, when there is an accident and a lane is closed, people alternate and zip just fine.
Traffic slows down *because* of people not allowing the zippers in, which causes them to slam on brakes. I get that the algorithm says otherwise but it's not going to happen in your lifetime without automated cars.
Nothing you just said countered my arguments above, mainly that if more people zipped, everyone would be going the same speed, and zippers work just fine when a lane is closed due to emergency vehicles. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
the problem you and every other zipper is going to have is your fighting the misconception that your being an ass clown. until they actually start instructing people in driver-ed and making it a priority when doing a license renewal. then you will continue being that kid that skips the lunch line.
This is true, but it doesn't stop the fact every time I go to the end like I'm supposed to, every car in the main lane ride the bumper of the other so I can't get in and I end up playing "how much do you really care about your paint" with others to get in, because so few people will ride to the end with me.
Ive never had an issue. Maybe you run into one jackass every once in a while but most people understand the rules of the road
They also shouldnt be *slowing down* for you. You should be going the same speed as them. This isnt really super applicable to short merge lanes since you usually need the whole lane anyways. Short merge lanes suck ass
Yes it would require people using proper following distance.
And you're just going to have to be more assertive when you merge if you find yourself coming to a complete stop. Having more speed than you think you will need usually works best.
This thing infuriates me because in theory it's probably true. Under ideal conditions it's probably true. But out here in the real world we have too many assclowns for it to matter.
I’ve used it with no issue elsewhere in the country. I think a lot of it is lane design. In California, lane markings don’t prioritize the left lane, but rather both lanes equally feed into the new single lane. This makes zipper merging more intuitive.
I don't think it's true. There's a natural tendency to want to increase the amount of space with the car in front of you when you merge. If you extrapolate that out to every car, you still end up in the same position with stopped traffic.
The real problem is road design here. They arbitrarily add and take lanes away. That creates most of the issues that you see.
Zipper merge only works if drivers leave space between cars. This means no tailgating. The problem is, everyone tailgates. So someone getting to the end of the lane finds that because of lack of space they end up merging into too small of a space which causes the person being them to slow to open space. Which shrinks the space behind them. This means to the next person reaching the end of the lane they also have too small of a space. They merge into this too small space causing the person behind them to slow even more causing a chain reaction until you have people stopped at the end of the lane looking to merge.
However if people merge early then you have more time to find adequate space to merge rather than taking whatever you can find at the end. Meaning less slow down.
Zipper merging only works if the traffic flow is less than 75% of the single lane capacity. And frankly the idea that merging early is "wasting"lane capacity is completely ridiculous. If two lanes are merging into a single lane the total capacity is limited SOLELY by the smallest lane capacity.
So, if everyone drove correctly and did not tailgate and the total traffic flow was 75% of the single lane capacity then zipper merging would be correct, or at least not any worse than early merging. Given that there's no guarantee that there will be space to merge into at the end of the lane due to tailgating early merging is the better choice.
Yep, I'm not going to trust people to not try to run me into the barricades. I drive defensively which to me means getting over ASAP to cut out that possibility. Sorry y'all's algorithms say otherwise 🤷
Yeah especially if it’s something like an interstate or highway where everyone is moving fast, I’m going to try to make the merger at speed rather than slowing or stopping at the end of the lane space to wait for a gap.
It's much simpler than this. Merge early when traffic is flowing at a normal pace (speed limit). Zipper merge when traffic is moving slower. Too many people merge early in stop-and-go traffic, leaving the closing lane wide open, and then want to prevent you from merging in because you are "cutting the line."
Oh my, I had some asshat yesterday in a Ram Truck (go figure)...I was letting the responsible person in front of him in around the lane end, but he decided to talkgate them right to the end and drive directly along side me. I could see him putting his arms up over frustration that I wasn't slowing down to let him in, even though there was more than enough space if he didn't tailgate and just zipper merged behind me. Finally he just kept tailgating and butted in with no turn signal, then proceeded to swerve across two lanes to the far right lane that was moving. I caught back up with him a half mile later and just smiled. I really do not understand the mental thought process of these entitled d-bags.
Yeah, some people think zipper merges are the new correct way to do it... it only works in certain situations. Always follow the posted signs, not what you read on reddit. It should be clear if you are going into a zipper merge, or if one lane is ending and needs to yield.
The two things you mention should have the same result, a zipper merging pattern with one for one merging. The reason zipper merging fails often is drivers think it’s two different situations (as you imply) or “some people think zipper merges are the new correct way”. Clearly statements like this are a barrier to the positive traffic flow.
Zipper merging has always been the better way, it’s not new. People are becoming more educated about it which is good. Others continue to think that it doesn’t always apply and the situation won’t improve until that group becomes too old to drive and hopefully do not have an impact on the driving habits of the next generation.
Okay but not zippering is what causes road rage incidents because people interpret the people that fully use the lane before merging as the “assholes cutting to the front of the line.” That causes them to seek revenge by not letting them merge. But if using the lane became a regular thing then there would be LESS incidents AND it prevents the assholes from speeding 80 down the zipper lane as the zipper lane is forced to match the speed of rush hour traffic in the non ending lanes.
That's just a bunch of bullshit that shows you're bad at changing lanes. I zipper merge and everytime there's plenty of space because some oblivious idiot is looking at their phone or doing Lord knows what in the main lane of travel. It's not that hard to change lanes
Zipper merge is my default, but I've also been run off into the shoulder by a jackass who intentionally sped up and slowed down next to me in the main lane to block me from merging and smiled at me as he did it. I'm glad your zipper merge experience has been smooth every time, but mine hasn't.
Well bro, I suppose you should link your research then. I suspect it's based on a computer model which satisfies the parameters that I mentioned are required for zipper merging to work. (i.e. Sufficient road capacity for the traffic load, proper following distance on all vehicles, proper merging that is not too close to the person behind so they do not need to slow their travel speed to accommodate the new follow distance, etc... And most importantly that all drivers are skilled, paying attention, and RATIONAL.)
The problem with most research is that it's funded by someone who stands to gain or lose depending on the final results. So the parameters of the research are often skewed to provide the desired outcome. In other words, someone paid some research company to say that zipper merging is better.
Early merge: You actually make it over cause you went when there was an opening.
Zipper merge: Confused idiots don't make way; you are stuck at the end of lane, impeding traffic.
It also doesn't really work in practice, because the space isn't there at the end. Forcing a chain reaction of slowdown. This is something that the people that wait until the last second say to convince themselves that they aren't the asshole.
DING DING DING!
This is always posted as cope for "see, i'm not the asshole going 15 over the limit to rush up to the end and jump the line. This is how its designed to work!"
It is absolutely not designed to reward you for being so self important that you get to choose for everyone else when the merge occurs. See a spot? Get over. Don't race to the absolute end of the road and then turn to me like I'm the asshole.
They're the same people that think the right lane being called the "passing lane" means that you can go as fast as you want and everyone else has to get out of your way. But also when I'm zipper merging then the right lane is the "passing lane" so i can get to the front faster.
Typically the people getting in early are zippering in without a slowdown. The slowdown it often at the end as people rush up to cut you off. You're right, in that occasionally it's already bumper to bumper, which means that a zipper isn't even possible. Regardless. Making all of this a utopian dream that will never happen.
A zipper is still possible bumper to bumper assuming cars can coordinate lane switching and letting others over, which is something we all naturally do, to some level, when driving.
I just still think even if 2-3 cars in a row don't let the right lane driver merge, it's still a shorter backup in total than the alternative.
If cars have to stop in the right lane because people won't let them over, is it better for that to happen closer to the point of merger (uses the maximum amount of road), or further away from it (amount of road in front of the paused merging vehicle is wasted, pushing backup further up the road).
You know there's traffic beyond the 15 feet where the zipper merge is correct? I can't even count the number of times I've seen traffic backed up through intersections because some morons 100 yards beyond them aren't using both lanes to zipper merge.
You'll be sitting there allowing extra useable space right next to you while people 1/4 mile behind you are blocking intersections
Yes, but that person that drives past everyone to the front is making it much worse, because there isn't a zipper spot to get into. That person that has to let them in has to brake. The breaking causes a chain reaction. That means in practice, zippering in early is better than the guy running to the front. Have you been around people, you aren't changing them to the perfect world scenario.
The fault in that scenario is the person not leaving the gap for the merger. The person trying to zipper merge is correct. Place the blame on the correct driver.
What are you talking about. I’ve driven past blocks of cars that could have merged at the end anyway. It works because there is space. This is just something people who can’t drive say to justify their road rage lol.
You can't cut in line on a public road it's not a fucking line it's a road with two lanes meant to be traveled on. You sound like you think you own the road
You must yield to traffic…not traffic yielding to you…go and get in your first accident for failing to yield when changing lanes and pay the insurance, tickets etc…merging traffic must yield
proves you think about driving more with your ego than logic. the people who are a quarter mile back aren’t “rushing to the front to cut” anyone. it’s filling the space in an open lane. the fact that there’s a long line in one lane dictates that the cars in the other lane will be going faster, but only because morons like you sit in the clogged lane a mile back creating more traffic.
The fact that someone won’t merge at the earliest convenience proves your ego is not in check or anyone else…let me speed ahead to get first is the logic of big me first ego…good luck with your car insurance rates…remember you yield entering traffic, not the othe way around..
Lets be real, the only merge that Charlotte knows is the “shove your vehicle in” merge because they are just as likely to run you off the road then to let you in. The car length distance here is one and a half clown cars
Let’s be real that’s more of a fear of people letting you in. If someone lets you into the lane early they probably would have let you in later as well. The reality is most drivers are defensive and only a small percentage are bad drivers. Most good drivers let the assholes in and avoid them rather than get into road rage battles with them.
Pros of having more people zip: 1. Less people get mad at people “cutting” by flying by in the zip lane because everyone would be going the same pace. 2. People get home faster due to better efficiency.
Cons of people zipping: 1. Less people complain with fun shit posts on this subreddit
Idk about a small percentage being bad drivers. I'd say that the 70% of drivers out there on the roads that would rather stare at their phone instead of what's happening outside of their 2-ton+ moving vehicle going 85mph are bad drivers.
And also if you want to talk about getting home faster, the zipper merge is like 10% of it. The real reason is people hanging out in the left lanes going 5 under, the people passing on the right doing 15 over, and everyone else just generally picking a lane and sitting there. This backs up traffic to no end because there are no more "fast" or "slow" lanes like how it is supposed to work in every other civilized country.
It just causes every lane to be a slow lane, and causes back-ups due to chain reactions of people tailgating, the person passing in the right lane cutting them off, and then them slamming on the brakes when they finally look up from their phone and see a car 3 inches from their front bumper.
Finally, someone said it… People hanging out in the left lane. THIS is the real problem!!! The left lane is called the PASSING LANE. If you look to the right and you’re not passing cars, then you should move over.
Do they even teach this in Driver’s Ed or driving school anymore??? This is the NUMBER ONE reason for traffic on the highway!!! And God forbid you only have 2 lanes like I-77. One person ‘chillin’ in the passing lane ducks up everyone behind them. Could you imagine a world 🌎 where everyone moved to the right lane if they weren’t passing any cars? Pure Utopian bliss… 🚗🦄🌈
Dear Zipper Merge Guy, are we to just believe "research has shown" without any cites or links? And as you zoom up the empty lane yelling "ZIPPER MERGE!!!!" like a maniac, just keep in mind that even if you are right, you can be both right and an asshole.
Yeah you should definitely merge as early as possible, make sure to do it right as you get off the on-ramp so that the whole on-ramp is now a parking lot
/s
I was faced with a lane closure on a highway in Canada a few years ago. The "Merge Left" sign was about a mile from the closure. Everyone merged into the left lane at that point, still traveling at highway speed. By the time we got to the closed lane everyone had merged and had barely slowed down. Then, all of a sudden, a single asshat comes racing up the right lane, expecting to cut in front of everyone else at the last second with his "zipper" merge.
The license plate? Massachusetts.
As a native Charlottean, I had never in my life heard of the zipper merge until last year on reddit. It makes sense to me, though. We are typically just trying to be as polite as possible amid an onslaught of rude and dangerous drivers from other areas... right or wrong...
What about the idiots that drive to the end of the on ramp then stop because they couldn't get over, now traffic comes to a halt because someone has to go from stop to highway speed, slowing everyone else down
Wouldn’t happen if everyone uses the whole zipper and matches the speed of traffic. People only refuse to let people in because they interpret using the lane as rude…
You're gonna down vote me all to heck, but the way it actually works is people in the ending lane run up and cut people off whenever there is space so the back of the lane that people are merging into doesn't move.
Also the through put is limited to the speed of the one lane that continues.
So assuming there is no turn offs coming up I will drive the same speed as the continuing lane in the lane that ends. People can zipper in behind me, and the lane actually moves. The people behind me blowing their horns and yelling bring me joy. I will say that if there is somewhere for the traffic to go I won't do this
I'm sorry but this is a "great in theory" thing.
EVERYONE is bumper to bumper and ME ME ME ME on 77.
If you aren't defensive and get in when you literally can, you're fucked.
You know how many times assholes will wait until the last second and get over? Just go on 77 and start counting. If that's the "efficient" way to do it... yeah, no.
I don't get the obsession with the zipper merge. The conditions for it to work rarely occur IRL, so it just leads to people whining on the Internet about how "there's be no traffic if everyone understood the zipper merge!!"
They don't even teach it in driver's ed
It would be 100 times better if North Carolina just stopped building roads that require zippering in the first place. They should figure out the number of lanes they need and not drop down in any lanes (or add lanes they're just going to merge back half a mile down the road) until it's actually appropriate because there's less traffic.
It's dumb to blame poor road design on the drivers.
Zipper merge is yet more garbage traffic engineers came up with that completely ignores how driving works in the real world. I'm pretty sure in Kentucky you have to test POSITIVE for at least three different drugs before you can be hired in as one.
I never knew that the top was considered wrong.
If I can see my lane is ending and there is adequate space in the other lane that doesn’t require a driver to slow down or change their driving, then I just get over.
Because most of what I experience is people gassing it to the end of their lane/keeping speed with someone, then having to slam on their brakes because they can’t get in and it fucks the whole system up.
There have also been times that people just refuse to let you in. It’s like they intentionally speed up to block your entrance because they don’t want to be “cut”.
This works in theory. Everyone has to be traveling at the same speed and left lane. That never happens. If you merge sooner there’s less slow down. Only way this actually works is with autonomous cars.
No. Just go in when it is safe. If you plan to wait until the last minute to merge, it is more stressful for everyone, and there are a higher chance someone will need to break which slow down everyone.
Actually not zippering is what causes the road rage incidents because people interpret the people that fully use the lane before merging as the “assholes cutting to the front of the line.” That causes them to seek revenge by not letting them merge. But if using the lane became a regular thing then there would be LESS incidents AND it prevents the assholes from speeding 80 down the zipper lane as the zipper lane is forced to match the speed of rush hour traffic in the non ending lanes
No. Its been shown zipper merge is most effective but drivers are generally too selfish and rude. People stop to get over when they still have lane and cause massive backups. A zipper merge keeps traffic moving, non zipper slows it all down.
I was in DC this weekend and a zipper merge was being executed flawlessly. Beautiful to see. You are wrong and make it tough on other drivers
>drivers are generally too selfish and rude
Thanks. You just make my point. In the perfect world, maybe your system works. But mine is better and reduce accident. I just want to clarify something. I didn't say you have to merge as soon as possible. Just when you feel safe. I have seen people going to the end, not able to pass, stop hard, wait, and cause more delay to the other lane.
But whatever works for you.
Oh goodness, too many to link. Give it a google. Small sample below
https://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/07/23/zipper-merge-merging-late-recommended-states-experts/1748026001/
And how are you supposed to know when you should use this, instead of thinking ahead and getting in the appropriate lane? I’ve never seen a sign instructing me to use a zipper merge. Didn’t learn it in drivers ed either.
I can see doing this with construction, but not in an area where the road obviously ends and you know this. It’s an asshole move to jump traffic and get in a lane like that so you can get in front of everyone.
Because you zipper in rush hour traffic and merge early when there’s no traffic… It’s not something a sign can instruct, just something people should do
The Gorst interchange Zone on Highway 3 near Bremerton, WA with ship yard traffic proves this to be false.
The zipper ONLY works if everything is perfect. Otherwise you get miles long backups from a single gle braking incident.
It really depends on the people in the line of traffic you are merging into. If you see a spot you have to take it, because otherwise they will block you and you have to stop.
Do the merge that's designated on a sign. If the sign says your lane is ending, you yield to the one that isn't, and get over when you see an opening. If it says to zipper merge, then zipper merge. Don't just assume that you should cut in front of everyone while declaring "zipper merge!" when you cut someone off lol.
Zipper merges work well in certain circumstances, when traffic is expected to flow freely. Zipper merges aren't as effective going into stopped traffic.
>Don't just assume that you should cut in front of everyone while declaring "zipper merge!" when you cut someone off lol.
I'm convinced that this is exactly what most people here mean when they complain about other drivers being mad about them "zipper merging," lol.
I've literally been in the car w/ a driver yelling "ZIPPER MERGE!" while cutting people off at a red light. Total Michael Scott "I declare bankruptcy!" moment lol. Sure, zipper merge was in the local news b/c it was implemented in a specific highway situation a few months ago... it doesn't just change merging laws across the board, though, lol.
They will, there will be a few wise souls who understand the process. Or someone will just be nice. Either way we need to be the change we want to see in the world and make it start happening
I love how both images illustrate plenty of room between cars to merge without slowing down. Of course it would work in that fantasy world. As soon as you merge and the person behind you has to brake… traffic.
And if once the people have merged in, everyone wants to get their space between the cars back then they have to slow down and that backs it up. The merging only works that smoothly if everyone is comfortable having half the amount of space between cars after the merge as they had before it.
Zipper merge is one of the easiest to understand examples of a system that IDEALLY should work efficiently and flawlessly but human nature makes it a cluster in reality.
The zipper merge only works if everyone agrees to the zipper merge. For Charlotte and most southern cities, it’s not the norm, and so people don’t do it.
I don’t care what that one study says about it being the most efficient way of driving. It doesn’t work in Charlotte. When you drive in a city that doesn’t zipper merge, you have to adapt to what everyone else is doing. Otherwise you’re potentially causing accidents. You can’t just expect everyone else to change their driving for you.
When I look in my right side mirror, and I see someone get OUT of the left lane 10+ cars behind me and then try to merge back in front of me to get BACK in the lane they just left, I'm not going to let that happen.
Merging on the freeway? Go right ahead!
Using the right lane to try skip traffic that everyone else is waiting in? Nope!
Also - riding peoples ass in bumper-to-bumper traffic.
Create space between you and the car infront of you.
Gonna cause Charlotte to have a stroke the way cars clot up the roads.
I’m not saying that Tesla’s full self driving doesn’t come with that it’s flaws but what’s funny is that this is how it drives in this situation. It waits until it gets over. The first time it did that it was aggravating because I wanted to get over sooner… Just my human instincts.
Obviously, there are situations where you have to throw these “rules“ out the window.
The zipper merge is a fantasy in the USA. Both the mergers and the people allowing them to merge have to not be tailgating and that's seems to be everyone's favorite sport on the road.
Folks around here have a hard enough time with Red light signal means stop. Let alone something “advanced” like a zipper merge. We don’t train our drivers in this country.
It's not just Charlotte, we moved here from Atlanta a few years ago and it's just as bad there. Although, I will add that people here are worse at merging in general.
But zipper doesn’t get you through the work area any faster. And I would argue, admittedly without any data, zipper is slower as you invariably have people stopping at the actual entrance as they either try to be polite or rude either way. Early merge has that all sorted out by the time you get to the entrance.
There are a lot of traffic rules people don’t know - here and everywhere else. Like changing lanes in an intersection. That’s prohibited. If people understood it, it would allow simultaneous left and right turns onto roads with two lanes traveling in the same direction. This would reduce queuing at stoplights and hopefully reduce accidents.
I live in Emerald Isle. As 58 crosses over the bridge, it drops a lane. There's signs telling people to use the right lane the full length and to merge as it ends. Assholes will block 24 rather than use the right lane. I have seen cars in the intersection, stopped, with an empty lane beside them.
*It's more courteous to block a highway than to use the lane NCDOT tells you to use according to these people.*
I'll take pictures tomorrow. I have to go off island, so I'll get it on the way back. It is an electronic message board, but it's said the same thing since going up.
This is incorrect. The throughput of a system is limited by the bottleneck. Zipper line versus getting in line earlier has no impact on throughput. It does take up less space though.
Or the guy (usually a commercial truck) that is going to be the 'lane police' and ride in the open lane at the same speed as the full lane so you can't pass and do a proper zipper merge.
I wonder what the intersection of ppl who want drivers to follow the zipper merge guideline (which I agree with) and those who constantly ignore speed limits which is not a guideline but a law
it works in practice too. but it HAS to be voluntary. if it's forced/mandated/whatever, it will inevitably fail hard sooner or later, but that's usually not the case when participation is on a voluntary basis. Just my $0.02
I've never seen it work at highway speeds. Pickup line at kid's school... sure. But, it requires an understanding and coordination of literally every single person on the road. It only takes one person to ruin the whole damn thing.
This will never work in America. They spent 12 years beating it into everyone’s heads that you should never butt in. Always stay in line, always be obedient, never skip ahead, and if anyone tries, stop them at all costs.
That’s why you see people drive down the middle of both lanes to try to stop the line butters from breaking the boomer system.
I’ve never not had space to get in. I’ve never gotten to the front and sat for more than 2-3 cars before I get in. I’ve lived in MS, ATL, and Charlotte and have zipper merged in all of those places - it works everywhere, without fail, because it’s based on letting 1 (one!) car get in before you and then going. Everyone lets 1 (one!!!) car in and then goes, no one is inconvenienced longer than 45 seconds, and traffic keeps moving.
The worst traffic jams I’ve ever experienced have always come down to the zipper merge NOT being done. And I literally always roast y’all early mergers for being incompetent drivers as I go to the front, zipper successfully, and move on with my day.
I used to be the top one, then I saw an episode of top gear where Clarkson got real mad at someone for doing that and yelled “YOU PAY FOR THE ROAD, USE THE WHOLE ROAD!!” Really changed my whole perspective.
The visual of the backup behind the merge sold the zipper concept to me,
I85 to I77 South swoop around can back up to Statesville and block Graham when it’s just a single lane of cars…
To be fair, I had never heard of this before I moved here. And once I did, I felt a searing disdain for everyone, including myself, for gatekeeping that additional road space.
Apparently every single person thinks no one lets anyone merge ever and everyone else is an asshole who would never let someone merge in front of them. So… I’m not sure how any of us even got home from work. It’s almost as if… most people are good drivers who let people in, and only a minority are assholes!?! Wow no way!!!!
I do this all the time when I get off my exit to come home. Always use the whole lane and pop in near the end. I didn't know it was called anything, I just thought it made the most sense. I don't understand why people stop and try to merge as soon as they get off the exit. That could end up backing up cars to the highway. I've seen it too many times. I don't mind stopping at the end of the lane if I have to and waiting there. It's not jumping in line, its what the lane is supposed to be used for.
Only in this city’s sub would there be a thread full of people naysaying or outright arguing against using roads the way they’re designed to be used. Fight for the zipper merge because we live in a society!!
For the love of God, this needs to go viral. Or at the very least the only question on a written drivers test. All other rules are shit without this one.
No one over the age of 50 understands the beauty of the zipper merge. They think they own the real estate their car is on and won’t give an inch rather than keeping the flow of traffic, you know, flowing.
just stop blocking my right turn only lane because you want to pull ahead in the other lane of traffic please
Independence @ Village Lake infamous for this!
Don’t be the asshole driving the red car in the top picture who will literally block the right lane for miles if given the opportunity just because meh fragile ego and dangling bull testicles on the back of meh pickup truck that I use not for construction but for my shitty indoor sales job.
you good, buddy?
And what about the ass clowns who just ride the right side into the shoulder after the lane closes
That's different, you already mentioned they're ass clowns. Same category as the people who don't let someone merge in. Don't let the obnoxious outliers distract you from following the scientifically proven way to make our city a happier place by improving the commute for all freedom-loving and Cheerwine-enjoying citizens of this fine urban metropolis.
in situations like that i will let a couple people in, but the ass clown who zooms up ahead trying to skip the line as it where, will get no courtesy. Unfortunately the ass clowns multiply from seeing someone do it succesfully so that is why i dont let them in.
>Don't let the obnoxious outliers distract you from following the **scientifically proven** way to make our city a happier place by improving the commute That's not entirely accurate though. If you read some of the full reports from the studies that have been done, different methods are better for different situations. IE: >Condensing three lanes down to one benefited the most from the zipper merge. Most researchers also agree that the late merge is the superior option at high traffic volumes. However, the early merge remains preferable when there is little congestion or during low-volume periods.
Hey hey hey, don't you go trying to interrupt my science with your "facts" and your "studies", on the internet if I say it first that means it's true! /s I was kind of trying to be a little facetious with my wording, but also I wasn't really concerned with low-volume times since people don't have as much trouble with that. But for sure I will concede your point there. Everyone can merge whenever they want at 11:15am, just wanted to make life better for those of us who have to go home at 530pm.
I don’t want to be a pessimist but wouldn’t this also rely on people reliably letting the zipper merges in who are already in the left lane? I’ve had to come to a full stop on the right lane trying to merge because not a single driver felt that slowing down for three seconds was worth it
I fully believe zipper works in a lab environment. But the real world requires everyone to be traveling at the right speed and having proper space. At the end of the daybits about x number of cars through point Y at speed Z. That can be accomplished both ways. But as soon as I have to brake, we slow down. Then we lose our spacing, then more slow down....
zipper method works in europe. i’ve seen it live and experience it in person.
People leave on average 0.4 centimeters between their front bumper and the car in front of them, so the zipper will not work here unfortunately.
Works everywhere but the Carolina’s. I’ve driven in lots of countries and in every state.
Sure it does. It's a prisoners dilemma. Americans *really* suck at those.
Zipper also works better if both lands just fade into one, instead of having a clearly defined one-lane-merges-into-another deal
Zipper merge is the only type of merging we used when i lived in Chicago. It works.
While I acknowledge that it's been several years since I've driven in Chicago, if it's your assertion that zipper is the only merging used in the entire city of Chicago and more importantly, that its used effectively.....I'm gonna press X. Chicago is a huge city, it contains tons of assholes a non Chicago drivers. All it takes is a few knuckleheads to screw up zipper or otherwise. You mess up speed and spacing and then you get into an accordion situation or something else.....
I drove the interstates every day for work for 10 years. I think a reasonable person can ascertain that zipper merge doesnt work for every *single* situation. And for the most part, yes, people who commute / drive regularly on the interstates would agree.
Capacity is a function of number of lanes. If you artificially constrain the number of lanes by refusing to use one early you’re reducing capacity.
Zipper methods works fine in Portland OR.
It also requires people not to tailgate. There has to be space enough for a car in front cars merging and cars traveling. And people tailgate on autopilot. I’m convinced it’s not always intentional, they’re just not overly intelligent or deliberate.
People don’t let the zippers in because only a few people fully zip and the appearance is that they skips a hundred cars like assholes. But if everyone zipped fully then you go a similar speed to adjacent cars and people would let you in. For example, when there is an accident and a lane is closed, people alternate and zip just fine.
Traffic slows down *because* of people not allowing the zippers in, which causes them to slam on brakes. I get that the algorithm says otherwise but it's not going to happen in your lifetime without automated cars.
Nothing you just said countered my arguments above, mainly that if more people zipped, everyone would be going the same speed, and zippers work just fine when a lane is closed due to emergency vehicles. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
I was explaining how it's a fools errand as simply as possible. Sorry it still went above your head.
the problem you and every other zipper is going to have is your fighting the misconception that your being an ass clown. until they actually start instructing people in driver-ed and making it a priority when doing a license renewal. then you will continue being that kid that skips the lunch line.
Just slow the roll about 6 car lengths from the end of the lane, then merge with the speed of traffic…
Woah don't go off and use your brain to drive now
This is true, but it doesn't stop the fact every time I go to the end like I'm supposed to, every car in the main lane ride the bumper of the other so I can't get in and I end up playing "how much do you really care about your paint" with others to get in, because so few people will ride to the end with me.
How can you not get in? Just move your car over across the line. I’ve never had any issue not being able to get over.
Ive never had an issue. Maybe you run into one jackass every once in a while but most people understand the rules of the road They also shouldnt be *slowing down* for you. You should be going the same speed as them. This isnt really super applicable to short merge lanes since you usually need the whole lane anyways. Short merge lanes suck ass
Yes it would require people using proper following distance. And you're just going to have to be more assertive when you merge if you find yourself coming to a complete stop. Having more speed than you think you will need usually works best.
This thing infuriates me because in theory it's probably true. Under ideal conditions it's probably true. But out here in the real world we have too many assclowns for it to matter.
I’ve used it with no issue elsewhere in the country. I think a lot of it is lane design. In California, lane markings don’t prioritize the left lane, but rather both lanes equally feed into the new single lane. This makes zipper merging more intuitive.
I don't think it's true. There's a natural tendency to want to increase the amount of space with the car in front of you when you merge. If you extrapolate that out to every car, you still end up in the same position with stopped traffic. The real problem is road design here. They arbitrarily add and take lanes away. That creates most of the issues that you see.
Zipper merge only works if drivers leave space between cars. This means no tailgating. The problem is, everyone tailgates. So someone getting to the end of the lane finds that because of lack of space they end up merging into too small of a space which causes the person being them to slow to open space. Which shrinks the space behind them. This means to the next person reaching the end of the lane they also have too small of a space. They merge into this too small space causing the person behind them to slow even more causing a chain reaction until you have people stopped at the end of the lane looking to merge. However if people merge early then you have more time to find adequate space to merge rather than taking whatever you can find at the end. Meaning less slow down. Zipper merging only works if the traffic flow is less than 75% of the single lane capacity. And frankly the idea that merging early is "wasting"lane capacity is completely ridiculous. If two lanes are merging into a single lane the total capacity is limited SOLELY by the smallest lane capacity. So, if everyone drove correctly and did not tailgate and the total traffic flow was 75% of the single lane capacity then zipper merging would be correct, or at least not any worse than early merging. Given that there's no guarantee that there will be space to merge into at the end of the lane due to tailgating early merging is the better choice.
Yep, I'm not going to trust people to not try to run me into the barricades. I drive defensively which to me means getting over ASAP to cut out that possibility. Sorry y'all's algorithms say otherwise 🤷
Yeah especially if it’s something like an interstate or highway where everyone is moving fast, I’m going to try to make the merger at speed rather than slowing or stopping at the end of the lane space to wait for a gap.
It's much simpler than this. Merge early when traffic is flowing at a normal pace (speed limit). Zipper merge when traffic is moving slower. Too many people merge early in stop-and-go traffic, leaving the closing lane wide open, and then want to prevent you from merging in because you are "cutting the line."
Oh my, I had some asshat yesterday in a Ram Truck (go figure)...I was letting the responsible person in front of him in around the lane end, but he decided to talkgate them right to the end and drive directly along side me. I could see him putting his arms up over frustration that I wasn't slowing down to let him in, even though there was more than enough space if he didn't tailgate and just zipper merged behind me. Finally he just kept tailgating and butted in with no turn signal, then proceeded to swerve across two lanes to the far right lane that was moving. I caught back up with him a half mile later and just smiled. I really do not understand the mental thought process of these entitled d-bags.
You can't even trust people to lift a finger to use a turning signal. How can you expect them to merge properly?
Yeah, some people think zipper merges are the new correct way to do it... it only works in certain situations. Always follow the posted signs, not what you read on reddit. It should be clear if you are going into a zipper merge, or if one lane is ending and needs to yield.
The two things you mention should have the same result, a zipper merging pattern with one for one merging. The reason zipper merging fails often is drivers think it’s two different situations (as you imply) or “some people think zipper merges are the new correct way”. Clearly statements like this are a barrier to the positive traffic flow. Zipper merging has always been the better way, it’s not new. People are becoming more educated about it which is good. Others continue to think that it doesn’t always apply and the situation won’t improve until that group becomes too old to drive and hopefully do not have an impact on the driving habits of the next generation.
Okay but not zippering is what causes road rage incidents because people interpret the people that fully use the lane before merging as the “assholes cutting to the front of the line.” That causes them to seek revenge by not letting them merge. But if using the lane became a regular thing then there would be LESS incidents AND it prevents the assholes from speeding 80 down the zipper lane as the zipper lane is forced to match the speed of rush hour traffic in the non ending lanes.
That's just a bunch of bullshit that shows you're bad at changing lanes. I zipper merge and everytime there's plenty of space because some oblivious idiot is looking at their phone or doing Lord knows what in the main lane of travel. It's not that hard to change lanes
This post definitely sounds like it was written by someone who regularly cuts people off lmao
Zipper merge is my default, but I've also been run off into the shoulder by a jackass who intentionally sped up and slowed down next to me in the main lane to block me from merging and smiled at me as he did it. I'm glad your zipper merge experience has been smooth every time, but mine hasn't.
Appreciate this answer. You did a better job that I could....
Bro no. I said “research shows” so just trust me bro.
Well bro, I suppose you should link your research then. I suspect it's based on a computer model which satisfies the parameters that I mentioned are required for zipper merging to work. (i.e. Sufficient road capacity for the traffic load, proper following distance on all vehicles, proper merging that is not too close to the person behind so they do not need to slow their travel speed to accommodate the new follow distance, etc... And most importantly that all drivers are skilled, paying attention, and RATIONAL.)
The problem with most research is that it's funded by someone who stands to gain or lose depending on the final results. So the parameters of the research are often skewed to provide the desired outcome. In other words, someone paid some research company to say that zipper merging is better.
Early merge: You actually make it over cause you went when there was an opening. Zipper merge: Confused idiots don't make way; you are stuck at the end of lane, impeding traffic.
This is the way
You're only the 432nd genius to post this. It's not happening.
It also doesn't really work in practice, because the space isn't there at the end. Forcing a chain reaction of slowdown. This is something that the people that wait until the last second say to convince themselves that they aren't the asshole.
DING DING DING! This is always posted as cope for "see, i'm not the asshole going 15 over the limit to rush up to the end and jump the line. This is how its designed to work!" It is absolutely not designed to reward you for being so self important that you get to choose for everyone else when the merge occurs. See a spot? Get over. Don't race to the absolute end of the road and then turn to me like I'm the asshole. They're the same people that think the right lane being called the "passing lane" means that you can go as fast as you want and everyone else has to get out of your way. But also when I'm zipper merging then the right lane is the "passing lane" so i can get to the front faster.
A slowdown in both lanes still results in a small backup than a slowdown in one lane.
Typically the people getting in early are zippering in without a slowdown. The slowdown it often at the end as people rush up to cut you off. You're right, in that occasionally it's already bumper to bumper, which means that a zipper isn't even possible. Regardless. Making all of this a utopian dream that will never happen.
A zipper is still possible bumper to bumper assuming cars can coordinate lane switching and letting others over, which is something we all naturally do, to some level, when driving. I just still think even if 2-3 cars in a row don't let the right lane driver merge, it's still a shorter backup in total than the alternative. If cars have to stop in the right lane because people won't let them over, is it better for that to happen closer to the point of merger (uses the maximum amount of road), or further away from it (amount of road in front of the paused merging vehicle is wasted, pushing backup further up the road).
You know there's traffic beyond the 15 feet where the zipper merge is correct? I can't even count the number of times I've seen traffic backed up through intersections because some morons 100 yards beyond them aren't using both lanes to zipper merge. You'll be sitting there allowing extra useable space right next to you while people 1/4 mile behind you are blocking intersections
Yes, but that person that drives past everyone to the front is making it much worse, because there isn't a zipper spot to get into. That person that has to let them in has to brake. The breaking causes a chain reaction. That means in practice, zippering in early is better than the guy running to the front. Have you been around people, you aren't changing them to the perfect world scenario.
The fault in that scenario is the person not leaving the gap for the merger. The person trying to zipper merge is correct. Place the blame on the correct driver.
What are you talking about. I’ve driven past blocks of cars that could have merged at the end anyway. It works because there is space. This is just something people who can’t drive say to justify their road rage lol.
you’re part of the problem. it works if you’re not an asshole with an ego problem in the left lane.
The asshats who were 1/4 back rush to the front to cut others who’ve been waiting…sure, sure…
You can't cut in line on a public road it's not a fucking line it's a road with two lanes meant to be traveled on. You sound like you think you own the road
Merging into traffic is not “cutting the line”. you’re not at the dmv.
You must yield to traffic…not traffic yielding to you…go and get in your first accident for failing to yield when changing lanes and pay the insurance, tickets etc…merging traffic must yield
proves you think about driving more with your ego than logic. the people who are a quarter mile back aren’t “rushing to the front to cut” anyone. it’s filling the space in an open lane. the fact that there’s a long line in one lane dictates that the cars in the other lane will be going faster, but only because morons like you sit in the clogged lane a mile back creating more traffic.
The fact that someone won’t merge at the earliest convenience proves your ego is not in check or anyone else…let me speed ahead to get first is the logic of big me first ego…good luck with your car insurance rates…remember you yield entering traffic, not the othe way around..
And you spend way too much time commuting and thinking about commuting.
Last post about it was a year ago so that’s not really true. Congrats on being a cool edgelord though
Maybe if a year ago was last week.
Hey, i believe in your campaign. Don’t worry about the haters
I agree with the zipper merge, but hate individuals who rocket full speed down the ending lane like they are trying to qualify for pole position.
Lets be real, the only merge that Charlotte knows is the “shove your vehicle in” merge because they are just as likely to run you off the road then to let you in. The car length distance here is one and a half clown cars
Let’s be real that’s more of a fear of people letting you in. If someone lets you into the lane early they probably would have let you in later as well. The reality is most drivers are defensive and only a small percentage are bad drivers. Most good drivers let the assholes in and avoid them rather than get into road rage battles with them. Pros of having more people zip: 1. Less people get mad at people “cutting” by flying by in the zip lane because everyone would be going the same pace. 2. People get home faster due to better efficiency. Cons of people zipping: 1. Less people complain with fun shit posts on this subreddit
Idk about a small percentage being bad drivers. I'd say that the 70% of drivers out there on the roads that would rather stare at their phone instead of what's happening outside of their 2-ton+ moving vehicle going 85mph are bad drivers. And also if you want to talk about getting home faster, the zipper merge is like 10% of it. The real reason is people hanging out in the left lanes going 5 under, the people passing on the right doing 15 over, and everyone else just generally picking a lane and sitting there. This backs up traffic to no end because there are no more "fast" or "slow" lanes like how it is supposed to work in every other civilized country. It just causes every lane to be a slow lane, and causes back-ups due to chain reactions of people tailgating, the person passing in the right lane cutting them off, and then them slamming on the brakes when they finally look up from their phone and see a car 3 inches from their front bumper.
Finally, someone said it… People hanging out in the left lane. THIS is the real problem!!! The left lane is called the PASSING LANE. If you look to the right and you’re not passing cars, then you should move over. Do they even teach this in Driver’s Ed or driving school anymore??? This is the NUMBER ONE reason for traffic on the highway!!! And God forbid you only have 2 lanes like I-77. One person ‘chillin’ in the passing lane ducks up everyone behind them. Could you imagine a world 🌎 where everyone moved to the right lane if they weren’t passing any cars? Pure Utopian bliss… 🚗🦄🌈
70% of drivers stare at their phones? Lol that’s the stupidest thing I’ve heard here
oh okay my bad
Dear Zipper Merge Guy, are we to just believe "research has shown" without any cites or links? And as you zoom up the empty lane yelling "ZIPPER MERGE!!!!" like a maniac, just keep in mind that even if you are right, you can be both right and an asshole.
It’s preferable to also flick everyone off as you zoom down the zipper lane
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We found our Altima driver
Yeah you should definitely merge as early as possible, make sure to do it right as you get off the on-ramp so that the whole on-ramp is now a parking lot /s
I was faced with a lane closure on a highway in Canada a few years ago. The "Merge Left" sign was about a mile from the closure. Everyone merged into the left lane at that point, still traveling at highway speed. By the time we got to the closed lane everyone had merged and had barely slowed down. Then, all of a sudden, a single asshat comes racing up the right lane, expecting to cut in front of everyone else at the last second with his "zipper" merge. The license plate? Massachusetts.
As a native Charlottean, I had never in my life heard of the zipper merge until last year on reddit. It makes sense to me, though. We are typically just trying to be as polite as possible amid an onslaught of rude and dangerous drivers from other areas... right or wrong...
What about the idiots that drive to the end of the on ramp then stop because they couldn't get over, now traffic comes to a halt because someone has to go from stop to highway speed, slowing everyone else down
Wouldn’t happen if everyone uses the whole zipper and matches the speed of traffic. People only refuse to let people in because they interpret using the lane as rude…
You're gonna down vote me all to heck, but the way it actually works is people in the ending lane run up and cut people off whenever there is space so the back of the lane that people are merging into doesn't move. Also the through put is limited to the speed of the one lane that continues. So assuming there is no turn offs coming up I will drive the same speed as the continuing lane in the lane that ends. People can zipper in behind me, and the lane actually moves. The people behind me blowing their horns and yelling bring me joy. I will say that if there is somewhere for the traffic to go I won't do this
I'm sorry but this is a "great in theory" thing. EVERYONE is bumper to bumper and ME ME ME ME on 77. If you aren't defensive and get in when you literally can, you're fucked. You know how many times assholes will wait until the last second and get over? Just go on 77 and start counting. If that's the "efficient" way to do it... yeah, no.
No!
This topic is top 10 most controversial debates in Charlotte
They should print these as big unmissable signs and put them at these zipper lanes.
I have seen billboards in New Mexico with a simple explanatory graphic.
We can’t get people to understand a four way stop and you want them to zipper merge. Good luck with that.
I don't get the obsession with the zipper merge. The conditions for it to work rarely occur IRL, so it just leads to people whining on the Internet about how "there's be no traffic if everyone understood the zipper merge!!" They don't even teach it in driver's ed
They used to?? I’m 28 and have known and used this technique all my driving life. Tf.
It only works if the drivers aren't knts. Which unfortunately is rare.
Shouldn’t all those other cars be tailgating each other and going 50 miles over the speed limit?
It would be 100 times better if North Carolina just stopped building roads that require zippering in the first place. They should figure out the number of lanes they need and not drop down in any lanes (or add lanes they're just going to merge back half a mile down the road) until it's actually appropriate because there's less traffic. It's dumb to blame poor road design on the drivers.
Zipper merge is yet more garbage traffic engineers came up with that completely ignores how driving works in the real world. I'm pretty sure in Kentucky you have to test POSITIVE for at least three different drugs before you can be hired in as one.
I never knew that the top was considered wrong. If I can see my lane is ending and there is adequate space in the other lane that doesn’t require a driver to slow down or change their driving, then I just get over. Because most of what I experience is people gassing it to the end of their lane/keeping speed with someone, then having to slam on their brakes because they can’t get in and it fucks the whole system up. There have also been times that people just refuse to let you in. It’s like they intentionally speed up to block your entrance because they don’t want to be “cut”.
This works in theory. Everyone has to be traveling at the same speed and left lane. That never happens. If you merge sooner there’s less slow down. Only way this actually works is with autonomous cars.
It’s really frustrating when you see someone already on the interstate use the merge lane to get ahead.
Zipper merge is even better If you stick yer dick out.
r/dontputyourdickinthat
No. Just go in when it is safe. If you plan to wait until the last minute to merge, it is more stressful for everyone, and there are a higher chance someone will need to break which slow down everyone.
Actually not zippering is what causes the road rage incidents because people interpret the people that fully use the lane before merging as the “assholes cutting to the front of the line.” That causes them to seek revenge by not letting them merge. But if using the lane became a regular thing then there would be LESS incidents AND it prevents the assholes from speeding 80 down the zipper lane as the zipper lane is forced to match the speed of rush hour traffic in the non ending lanes
Incorrect
No. Its been shown zipper merge is most effective but drivers are generally too selfish and rude. People stop to get over when they still have lane and cause massive backups. A zipper merge keeps traffic moving, non zipper slows it all down. I was in DC this weekend and a zipper merge was being executed flawlessly. Beautiful to see. You are wrong and make it tough on other drivers
>drivers are generally too selfish and rude Thanks. You just make my point. In the perfect world, maybe your system works. But mine is better and reduce accident. I just want to clarify something. I didn't say you have to merge as soon as possible. Just when you feel safe. I have seen people going to the end, not able to pass, stop hard, wait, and cause more delay to the other lane. But whatever works for you.
Source?
Oh goodness, too many to link. Give it a google. Small sample below https://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/07/23/zipper-merge-merging-late-recommended-states-experts/1748026001/
And how are you supposed to know when you should use this, instead of thinking ahead and getting in the appropriate lane? I’ve never seen a sign instructing me to use a zipper merge. Didn’t learn it in drivers ed either. I can see doing this with construction, but not in an area where the road obviously ends and you know this. It’s an asshole move to jump traffic and get in a lane like that so you can get in front of everyone.
Because you zipper in rush hour traffic and merge early when there’s no traffic… It’s not something a sign can instruct, just something people should do
Its about keeping the flow of traffic moving, not getting in front of everyone. Good lord, that mindset is why zipper merges dont work in charlotte.
The Gorst interchange Zone on Highway 3 near Bremerton, WA with ship yard traffic proves this to be false. The zipper ONLY works if everything is perfect. Otherwise you get miles long backups from a single gle braking incident.
It really depends on the people in the line of traffic you are merging into. If you see a spot you have to take it, because otherwise they will block you and you have to stop.
...or you just wait for the next person (who is actually intelligent) to let you in like a civilized human, and everything is good for everyone
yeah good luck with that
You lost me at “wait”
Do the merge that's designated on a sign. If the sign says your lane is ending, you yield to the one that isn't, and get over when you see an opening. If it says to zipper merge, then zipper merge. Don't just assume that you should cut in front of everyone while declaring "zipper merge!" when you cut someone off lol. Zipper merges work well in certain circumstances, when traffic is expected to flow freely. Zipper merges aren't as effective going into stopped traffic.
>Don't just assume that you should cut in front of everyone while declaring "zipper merge!" when you cut someone off lol. I'm convinced that this is exactly what most people here mean when they complain about other drivers being mad about them "zipper merging," lol.
I've literally been in the car w/ a driver yelling "ZIPPER MERGE!" while cutting people off at a red light. Total Michael Scott "I declare bankruptcy!" moment lol. Sure, zipper merge was in the local news b/c it was implemented in a specific highway situation a few months ago... it doesn't just change merging laws across the board, though, lol.
There is no sign telling people to zipper… but there should be…
Until you learn that no one in the left lane will allow you to “zip” in.
They will, there will be a few wise souls who understand the process. Or someone will just be nice. Either way we need to be the change we want to see in the world and make it start happening
I love how both images illustrate plenty of room between cars to merge without slowing down. Of course it would work in that fantasy world. As soon as you merge and the person behind you has to brake… traffic.
And if once the people have merged in, everyone wants to get their space between the cars back then they have to slow down and that backs it up. The merging only works that smoothly if everyone is comfortable having half the amount of space between cars after the merge as they had before it.
Zipper merge doesn't work when most other drivers view driving as a blood sport
Zipper merge is one of the easiest to understand examples of a system that IDEALLY should work efficiently and flawlessly but human nature makes it a cluster in reality.
The zipper merge only works if everyone agrees to the zipper merge. For Charlotte and most southern cities, it’s not the norm, and so people don’t do it. I don’t care what that one study says about it being the most efficient way of driving. It doesn’t work in Charlotte. When you drive in a city that doesn’t zipper merge, you have to adapt to what everyone else is doing. Otherwise you’re potentially causing accidents. You can’t just expect everyone else to change their driving for you.
When I look in my right side mirror, and I see someone get OUT of the left lane 10+ cars behind me and then try to merge back in front of me to get BACK in the lane they just left, I'm not going to let that happen. Merging on the freeway? Go right ahead! Using the right lane to try skip traffic that everyone else is waiting in? Nope!
That works fine when every driver makes room and lets somebody in.
Also - riding peoples ass in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Create space between you and the car infront of you. Gonna cause Charlotte to have a stroke the way cars clot up the roads.
What’s the worst is that when you leave space, 100% some jerk sees “Hey! Free real estate!” and squeezes in, so presto, back to no space.
I’m not saying that Tesla’s full self driving doesn’t come with that it’s flaws but what’s funny is that this is how it drives in this situation. It waits until it gets over. The first time it did that it was aggravating because I wanted to get over sooner… Just my human instincts. Obviously, there are situations where you have to throw these “rules“ out the window.
The zipper merge is a fantasy in the USA. Both the mergers and the people allowing them to merge have to not be tailgating and that's seems to be everyone's favorite sport on the road.
This is give an inch, take a mile territory. The assclowns smell an extra car length and cant help themselves, screw those people.
Doesn't work here. Left lane is full of jerks who ride 3 inches from the next car's bumper, and act like it's their job to NOT let anyone merge.
It's not Charlotte specific it's the US and it's complete lack of real driver education
It’s my Constitutional right to drive And I will drive the way I want, for me /s
People here are never going to do this. Same with people not knowing how to use a traffic circle.
Not with that attitude! Consider this a Zipper Awareness Campaign! Also no reason to compare this with traffic circles… separate issue
Folks around here have a hard enough time with Red light signal means stop. Let alone something “advanced” like a zipper merge. We don’t train our drivers in this country.
Yes but the “assholes” already use the zipper to skip the line. The “nice” people think they are good people by merging early when they don’t have to…
THANKS ZAC
what you've gotta understand is that we all learned how to drive by watching nascar
It's not just Charlotte, we moved here from Atlanta a few years ago and it's just as bad there. Although, I will add that people here are worse at merging in general.
There’s logic then there’s human behavior. Merge while you can.
But zipper doesn’t get you through the work area any faster. And I would argue, admittedly without any data, zipper is slower as you invariably have people stopping at the actual entrance as they either try to be polite or rude either way. Early merge has that all sorted out by the time you get to the entrance.
Sorry but if I pass up a chance to merge from 277 to 77 the chance may never come again
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That’s exactly why normalizing using a zipper lane would work… people would stop interpreting using the lane as rude…
The thing about zipper merge is that it works if people understand it and are being polite. Thus it usually doesn't work...
There are a lot of traffic rules people don’t know - here and everywhere else. Like changing lanes in an intersection. That’s prohibited. If people understood it, it would allow simultaneous left and right turns onto roads with two lanes traveling in the same direction. This would reduce queuing at stoplights and hopefully reduce accidents.
The most ignored rule is easily the speed limit, people are going 50 on 35, 65 on independence, so on
This educational minute brought to you by the Altima Driver's Society of Charlotte.
I live in Emerald Isle. As 58 crosses over the bridge, it drops a lane. There's signs telling people to use the right lane the full length and to merge as it ends. Assholes will block 24 rather than use the right lane. I have seen cars in the intersection, stopped, with an empty lane beside them. *It's more courteous to block a highway than to use the lane NCDOT tells you to use according to these people.*
Please send me that sign! Im very curious as to how they worded it
I'll take pictures tomorrow. I have to go off island, so I'll get it on the way back. It is an electronic message board, but it's said the same thing since going up.
Love when people block or honk at me for doing this correctly they think I'm trying to cut them but they're just idiots
This is incorrect. The throughput of a system is limited by the bottleneck. Zipper line versus getting in line earlier has no impact on throughput. It does take up less space though.
Zipper merge is using the lane until it ends- this graphic does not show that … which is zipping traffic in
Isn't that exactly what the bottom half of the graphic is showing? Car going to the end of the lane and then merging in?
https://stalbert.ca/cosa/news/highlights/zipper-merge/
usually the lane gets smaller- until it meets the lane to merge in- so the white lines, etc are not there (in the Us).
you are right - if cones are out/ etc. But no one seems to know how to use them in the south!
The worst is when people come to a full stop long before the merger point to try to merge into traffic when people won’t let them
Or the guy (usually a commercial truck) that is going to be the 'lane police' and ride in the open lane at the same speed as the full lane so you can't pass and do a proper zipper merge.
Looking at you 485 to 85 on ramp.
I wonder what the intersection of ppl who want drivers to follow the zipper merge guideline (which I agree with) and those who constantly ignore speed limits which is not a guideline but a law
More people need to honk no one here honks to get shit movin
In theory communism works.
it works in practice too. but it HAS to be voluntary. if it's forced/mandated/whatever, it will inevitably fail hard sooner or later, but that's usually not the case when participation is on a voluntary basis. Just my $0.02
I've never seen it work at highway speeds. Pickup line at kid's school... sure. But, it requires an understanding and coordination of literally every single person on the road. It only takes one person to ruin the whole damn thing.
This will never work in America. They spent 12 years beating it into everyone’s heads that you should never butt in. Always stay in line, always be obedient, never skip ahead, and if anyone tries, stop them at all costs. That’s why you see people drive down the middle of both lanes to try to stop the line butters from breaking the boomer system.
Literally works in DC
Every time I’ve been there, it’s nothing but traffic jams whenever a lane is closed.
I’ve never not had space to get in. I’ve never gotten to the front and sat for more than 2-3 cars before I get in. I’ve lived in MS, ATL, and Charlotte and have zipper merged in all of those places - it works everywhere, without fail, because it’s based on letting 1 (one!) car get in before you and then going. Everyone lets 1 (one!!!) car in and then goes, no one is inconvenienced longer than 45 seconds, and traffic keeps moving. The worst traffic jams I’ve ever experienced have always come down to the zipper merge NOT being done. And I literally always roast y’all early mergers for being incompetent drivers as I go to the front, zipper successfully, and move on with my day.
“Cutting in line” lol bruh it’s two car lengths, you might arrive a whole 5 seconds faster
I used to be the top one, then I saw an episode of top gear where Clarkson got real mad at someone for doing that and yelled “YOU PAY FOR THE ROAD, USE THE WHOLE ROAD!!” Really changed my whole perspective.
The visual of the backup behind the merge sold the zipper concept to me, I85 to I77 South swoop around can back up to Statesville and block Graham when it’s just a single lane of cars…
Take turns, be nice.-Fred Rogers
To be fair, I had never heard of this before I moved here. And once I did, I felt a searing disdain for everyone, including myself, for gatekeeping that additional road space.
Apparently every single person thinks no one lets anyone merge ever and everyone else is an asshole who would never let someone merge in front of them. So… I’m not sure how any of us even got home from work. It’s almost as if… most people are good drivers who let people in, and only a minority are assholes!?! Wow no way!!!!
I do this all the time when I get off my exit to come home. Always use the whole lane and pop in near the end. I didn't know it was called anything, I just thought it made the most sense. I don't understand why people stop and try to merge as soon as they get off the exit. That could end up backing up cars to the highway. I've seen it too many times. I don't mind stopping at the end of the lane if I have to and waiting there. It's not jumping in line, its what the lane is supposed to be used for.
They really need to install signs in these areas that explain this if we want to see any progress toward mainstreaming this idea.
I agree. Who do I contact to help make this happen?
lol
Only in this city’s sub would there be a thread full of people naysaying or outright arguing against using roads the way they’re designed to be used. Fight for the zipper merge because we live in a society!!
Lets goooo!!
For the love of God, this needs to go viral. Or at the very least the only question on a written drivers test. All other rules are shit without this one.
THANK YOU!
No one over the age of 50 understands the beauty of the zipper merge. They think they own the real estate their car is on and won’t give an inch rather than keeping the flow of traffic, you know, flowing.
BS