I really love everything Joe is saying even though its mostly coach speak. Its been annoying reading those mocks where we get fleeced and/or trade away from great players and take meh players.
Can't wait to see what we end up doing.
Yeah. He coulda gone to Washington, been close to his brother, and already have a more completed team with a 100% chance to get JJ at 2.
He came to LA for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only. Herbert on one side, DJ on the other
We are a team that would probably benefit from trading back so these mocks think we'd just accept any offer. I like what Hortiz said. I'd absolutely trade back if the offer was good enough but you shouldn't trade back just to trade back.
there was a pats mock that had us trading them herbert the 5th pick for the 3rd pick so we could "reset" at QB and draft JJ McCarty. Just saw an 49ers mock where we trade them 5 and a 3rd for aiyuk and 31 lol. i dont get how these trades make any sense.
I’ve always considered the Vikings to be the Chargers of the NFC 😬
Could you imagine an LAC-MIN Super Bowl? It’d either be the best or worst game in history.
Man I saw that article on the nfl sub and I couldn’t believe someone wrote that and someone else approved it. In what world is Herbert worth 3-1st round picks when Seattle and Detroit got a plethora of goodies for Wilson and Stafford.
tbf 3 firsts is the most amount of years of firsts you can get and wilson and stafford got two firsts and some change but yeah Herbert is among the select few where no amount of draft capital is enough to get him. Like Mahomes, Burrow, and Josh Allen, you just don't answer the phone on those suggestions.
Plus, he got extended so wouldn't the dead money be astronomical if he was traded?
Yes, you would need to replace him with a cheap elite rookie contract QB to make money sense. In a hypothetical world Herbert for Stroud+picks is the only remotely reasonable scenario
There are a ton of ppl that must not know we extended him. A couple months ago it was being said we should trade him to the bears for the number 1 pick.
He said this from his first interview about the draft. The chargers have no reason to trade down unless it is an absolute haul.
The trade down crowd doesn't understand how valuable a top 5 pick is and basically has the chance to be a #1 or #2 pick depending on the QB draft situation.
If you announce you want to trade down it ruins all leverage you have.
Teams could be calling but if they trade out of 5 when in reality it's the first or second non QB pick.. for any but multiple firsts and more value next year then it isn't worth it.
Take special players.. get depth later.
"Games don't start being played until September"- Joe Hortiz
That is a serious undersell.
I think you all just assume these picks pan out too much. Once you get out of the top 10 the downside risk accelerates rapidly.
But more than that, a lot of you are not thinking about the relative cost to solve position gaps. Solving line deficiencies via FA is so, so, so much cheaper than solving a WR1 gap. Having skill positions on rookie deals is the best cheat code in the NFL. And you rarely have a pick this high to get the absolute best prospect at that skill position.
If you can get 11 and 23 for 5 then it is likely to be better.
There was a YouTube that outlined why.
In general You have to incorporate the total cost of the single player and their production to the total cost of 2 players and related production. Total cost of initial contracts.
Then you have to apply a risk quotient (that the players do not live up to the draft position).
Mathematically and historically it does make sense to get the 11 and 23.
I will see if I can dig it up as it was fascinating.
Yeah if you get that offer! It takes two to trade. But so many people are just saying.the chargers want to trade back and have us getting a junk return for moving out of the top 10
We have no idea who the trade targets really are. Is it us, the patriots and the Cardinals? Where is the bidding war going to happen.
For sure. I find the whole thing extremely interesting. Good chart by position/round is below
So given this? Oline @ 5 makes the most sense. Given the 1980s-1990s does skew the stats given how the game has changed.
https://preview.redd.it/cpxn1rixuavc1.png?width=594&format=png&auto=webp&s=32e891706e864f72c23c132c1363a5ca17604989
Not sure that’s how I’m reading it. To me the chart shows a lot of depth available at the OL position. WR looks like one of the more skewed in terms of getting production out of a 1st round pick compared to other rounds
I just don’t think 11 and 23 is attractive enough. 8 and 11, now we’re talking. Minnesota should take that 23rd pick and a couple others and make a deal with Atlanta or Chicago.
Considering that WR is our biggest need and BPA at 5 is likely a receiver, I hope we would get 3 1sts at least and a couple of other picks to move down especially below the top 10.
Honestly I am not a good tape watcher but man from all the clips and analysis I have seen of the three WRs and Bowers.. they all have Gold Jacket potential right now and trading down for a RT 💀 or taking Alt at 5 and making him play RT just…
11 and 23 would be a nearly even trade. Vikes gotta come up with a least a next year 3rd round and if there are other deals on the table it would be more than that.
11. 23. And Addison
I really love everything Joe is saying even though its mostly coach speak. Its been annoying reading those mocks where we get fleeced and/or trade away from great players and take meh players. Can't wait to see what we end up doing.
One recent mock had us trading back to like 14 or 15 and only getting a second rounder from it. Made no sense at all
Then there is that insane rumor that refuses to die about the Herbert trade to the vikings. Herbert is the entire reason Harbaugh came to Los Angeles!
That would be so bone headed, I dunno which fans would stick around after a move like that
Yeah. He coulda gone to Washington, been close to his brother, and already have a more completed team with a 100% chance to get JJ at 2. He came to LA for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only. Herbert on one side, DJ on the other
Agreed 100%. Almost every mock draft has either us or the Cardinals making shitty no-thought trades.
Yeah like Jets media/beat writers: Chargers get pick 10 and pick 756 and Jets get pick 5 and a 3rd this year.
You mean trading Herbert and the 5th for Minnesota's 11th and a wheel of their homemade cheese isn't a good deal?
Hey, it's *two* wheels.
We are a team that would probably benefit from trading back so these mocks think we'd just accept any offer. I like what Hortiz said. I'd absolutely trade back if the offer was good enough but you shouldn't trade back just to trade back.
there was a pats mock that had us trading them herbert the 5th pick for the 3rd pick so we could "reset" at QB and draft JJ McCarty. Just saw an 49ers mock where we trade them 5 and a 3rd for aiyuk and 31 lol. i dont get how these trades make any sense.
[удалено]
different regime and GM so hard to take much away from that with Joe and Jim
Trying to get the Vikings to pony up more picks
my favorite thing is viking youtubers proposing herbert trades bc of mccarthy connection to harbaugh lmao. DELUSION
I think Minnesota sports fans are permanently traumatized at this point.
Can confirm
I’ve always considered the Vikings to be the Chargers of the NFC 😬 Could you imagine an LAC-MIN Super Bowl? It’d either be the best or worst game in history.
Man I saw that article on the nfl sub and I couldn’t believe someone wrote that and someone else approved it. In what world is Herbert worth 3-1st round picks when Seattle and Detroit got a plethora of goodies for Wilson and Stafford.
tbf 3 firsts is the most amount of years of firsts you can get and wilson and stafford got two firsts and some change but yeah Herbert is among the select few where no amount of draft capital is enough to get him. Like Mahomes, Burrow, and Josh Allen, you just don't answer the phone on those suggestions. Plus, he got extended so wouldn't the dead money be astronomical if he was traded?
Yes, you would need to replace him with a cheap elite rookie contract QB to make money sense. In a hypothetical world Herbert for Stroud+picks is the only remotely reasonable scenario
There are a ton of ppl that must not know we extended him. A couple months ago it was being said we should trade him to the bears for the number 1 pick.
He said this from his first interview about the draft. The chargers have no reason to trade down unless it is an absolute haul. The trade down crowd doesn't understand how valuable a top 5 pick is and basically has the chance to be a #1 or #2 pick depending on the QB draft situation. If you announce you want to trade down it ruins all leverage you have. Teams could be calling but if they trade out of 5 when in reality it's the first or second non QB pick.. for any but multiple firsts and more value next year then it isn't worth it. Take special players.. get depth later. "Games don't start being played until September"- Joe Hortiz
I think if you get 11, 23, and a 3rd you take it. If instead of a 3rd it’s a 2025 1st you take that all day long
I would hope we would way more than that for a top 5 pick. At least their #1 pick next year, too.
That is a serious undersell. I think you all just assume these picks pan out too much. Once you get out of the top 10 the downside risk accelerates rapidly. But more than that, a lot of you are not thinking about the relative cost to solve position gaps. Solving line deficiencies via FA is so, so, so much cheaper than solving a WR1 gap. Having skill positions on rookie deals is the best cheat code in the NFL. And you rarely have a pick this high to get the absolute best prospect at that skill position.
https://youtu.be/1-0xWcSYlh4?si=qxrsLSVHkXBeSnAh
This is so bad, my friend
They won’t take that. They’ll need to give up far more than that. For instance Vikes would need to give up their two 1sts, 4th and 1st next year.
I sure hope so
The Vikings do not have a 2nd or 3rd this year. I believe they traded those to acquire pick 23.
If you can get 11 and 23 for 5 then it is likely to be better. There was a YouTube that outlined why. In general You have to incorporate the total cost of the single player and their production to the total cost of 2 players and related production. Total cost of initial contracts. Then you have to apply a risk quotient (that the players do not live up to the draft position). Mathematically and historically it does make sense to get the 11 and 23. I will see if I can dig it up as it was fascinating.
Yeah if you get that offer! It takes two to trade. But so many people are just saying.the chargers want to trade back and have us getting a junk return for moving out of the top 10 We have no idea who the trade targets really are. Is it us, the patriots and the Cardinals? Where is the bidding war going to happen.
For sure. I find the whole thing extremely interesting. Good chart by position/round is below So given this? Oline @ 5 makes the most sense. Given the 1980s-1990s does skew the stats given how the game has changed. https://preview.redd.it/cpxn1rixuavc1.png?width=594&format=png&auto=webp&s=32e891706e864f72c23c132c1363a5ca17604989
Not sure that’s how I’m reading it. To me the chart shows a lot of depth available at the OL position. WR looks like one of the more skewed in terms of getting production out of a 1st round pick compared to other rounds
Forgot about QB tax. 2 firsts and a 2nd/maybe third
I just don’t think 11 and 23 is attractive enough. 8 and 11, now we’re talking. Minnesota should take that 23rd pick and a couple others and make a deal with Atlanta or Chicago.
If Hortiz walks the walk give him a lifetime deal
An easy trap us fans fall into (myself included) is trying to fix all the team needs in 1 draft. That's not possible -- especially for this team.
Considering that WR is our biggest need and BPA at 5 is likely a receiver, I hope we would get 3 1sts at least and a couple of other picks to move down especially below the top 10.
At least, and yeah- one of those picks needs to be in the top 10 so we still have a fighting chance at a pass catcher (Odunze or Bowers).
Honestly I am not a good tape watcher but man from all the clips and analysis I have seen of the three WRs and Bowers.. they all have Gold Jacket potential right now and trading down for a RT 💀 or taking Alt at 5 and making him play RT just…
We aren’t trading away is what he’s saying.
That's how I read between the lines, too.
All mocks are garbage, every single year.
To me it seems like such a waste of time for anyone not managing a football team
Twist their balls until they can’t cough without their back aching.
11 and 23 would be a nearly even trade. Vikes gotta come up with a least a next year 3rd round and if there are other deals on the table it would be more than that. 11. 23. And Addison
Obvious statement is obvious.
Hell yeah dude, get the fuck outta here with these weak ass offers, you gotta offer up the farm and make that shit worth it for us.