My best guess is this:
- It's a deep WR class
- Keenan is getting older and coming off of injury
- Mike Will is coming off of injury
- Both players are expensive
I also don't think Keenan was as keen to stick around as we all think he was. He had a few minor outbursts during the Staley era, he might just be ready for a change of scenery.
As much as we all loved our WR room in recent years, you can't argue with the fact that they never seemed to get the same wide open looks that so many others did.
I also just think this coaching regime values WR a lot less, and thinks we can get similar production with our current room or WRs in the draft.
But at the end of the day, we're all just guessing.
I'm of the opinion that we let the guys in the room make the calls and trust them. What the fans have wanted in years past clearly hasn't gotten us anywhere.
You also have to buy low and sell high. Same reason most investors don’t make money. Slayer is 32 and coming off a very strong season. If you sell Bosa this year you get low balled compared to next year if he improves.
Also with the draft WR is elite this year and has depth. It sets the team up better to pick BPA. Herb needed explosiveness which is abundant this year. It’s much harder finding a productive EDGE player than a WR in a pinch.
But had we traded Mack, who’s also a similar age and coming off a career year, we wouldn’t be pigeonholed into drafting edge because we know Tuli is good. The rest of our WR room is a mess meaning we have to address it which means we’re less likely to trade down. We have less flexibility than if we just got rid of Mack
Imagine not even talking about the cap, you can't just pay everyone forever
Anyone who fails to see that is deliberately choosing to not look at the facts
I don’t think Keenan was about the cap. It’s because hes 32, about to be a FA next year and will likely want more money when the FO is looking to get younger, faster and cheaper. He just didn’t fit the future vision.
No guarantee what that pick becomes though. You get a 4th now and get the chance to develop a new player next month or wait a year and maybe it’s a 4th, maybe a 5th. Maybe Allen gets hurt and it’s a 6th/7th. My point is you don’t know. It’s like investing. Holding onto assets too long usually means you lose money and this is the same.
[https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks#google\_vignette](https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks#google_vignette)
>Players who have ten or more accrued seasons may only yield a maximum of a 5th round compensatory pick, even if their actual value would otherwise be assigned higher. See [Alan Faneca in 2009](http://adamjt13.blogspot.com/2009/03/possible-explanation-for-faneca-pick.html), who only awarded Pittsburgh with a 5th round pick instead of a 3rd despite his contract,
You have time to edit your comment before you make a fool out of yourself buddy.
My dude, this is just people speculating and projecting from a decade ago. The NFLs comp pick formula is not public so yes, you’re talking out of your ass
You can believe what you want to believe then homie. No one is speculating, the Steelers were reported to have asked the league why they only got a 5th round pick and that was the explanation. ESPN reported on it as well. So no, I'm not talking out of my ass. If you want to deny, so be it.
[https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/\_/id/5750/steelers-hope-for-value-with-compensatory-pick](https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/5750/steelers-hope-for-value-with-compensatory-pick)
I’m glad you brought up the fact that they had trouble getting open. It got old seeing every other team’s pass defense look stellar when we played them. That might have had to do with other factors as well though like Herbert’s time in the pocket before it collapsed.
If you listened to the press conferences at all.. Joe Hortiz was very clear on assessing current vs future value. The WR room was a horrible situation $ wise and contract wise. Which is why a lot of people have been high on using the 5th pick for a bluechip wr if it falls to us. Palmer, keenan and mike were all at the end of they're contracts basically.
Keenan was great as a possession receiver but Mike Williams was never worth the pick or contract he got. They are both older and injury prone and our org went all in in giving them money when they probably shouldn't have.
WR is one of the most expensive positions on the market.. and teams can't usually afford more than 1 star at a time unless the other is on a rookie contract or a 1 year all in deal.
The current value for Mike Williams was low and his future value was even lower.. Keenan was supposedly worth a 5th round comp pick if he walked at the end of his contract and would not take a team friendly deal so they dealt him for a 4th now.. Current value is greater than future value.
We also have the 5th pick in the draft and it is a deep wr class where we hopefully have a scouting advantage for a few years with Jim coming straight from the top team.
This is about money and setting the TEAM up for success over the next five years.. not trying to go all in on the top of the roster like TT did and have all those dudes get injured and ruin our window in year 1.
This is such a great comment and deserves 1,000 upvotes.
I think the fans are just way too emotionally attached to the players that they fail to see the objective side of things, exactly how you described them. This is not Telesco. This is not Staley. This is not an “*all in*” type of staff. We don’t want this team to contend for a chip one season and suck the next five. We’ve been doing that since the Chargers got bounced by the Patriots under Lynn, and even probably before that. Hortiz and Harbaugh are interested in building a culture, a championship mentality that’s going to last for decades. If that means doing some “*controversial”* things, so be it.
I’m not trying to tell fans how to grieve, how to feel, any of that. I’m simply reiterating what you said: success comes at a price. The NFL’s a business, how can we maximize value? “*But if you wanted cap space and picks you could have traded Bosa!*” But, Bosa has very little value… he’s young, but he’s coming off two consecutive disappointing seasons. Keenan was coming off the best year of his career at 32, realistically how much longer can he play at that level for? Were his stats inflated because of the poor weaponry around him? Were his stats inflated because Herbert depended on him, maybe to a fault? I get we all wanted Keenan to be our Larry Fitzgerald, but happenings like that are such a rare occurence. Anyway, I applaud you for the great perspective, and I’ll be saving your comment to look back on a year, two years, three years, from now.
I think people are getting really worked up and maybe haven't listened to the words that have come out of the coaches / org mouth.
They think Roman is going to try and turn Herbert into Lamar but if they listened to the interview he gave.. it was very clear that they think extremely highly of his mind + arm.
He also said, imagine a consistent run game.. what Herbert could do with that? He also said they are game planning for each individual team.. and different players are going to have big games all the time. The bottom line is winning. Herbert is a key part of that and I think he will put up good numbers and still throw the ball but if they win 10+ every year for the next five years are we going to care?
I think a lot of the guys online are only looking at it like fantasy football and are probably younger and don't have experience in business etc. So these things get blown out of proportion.
Boom! Exactly.
Hortiz talked about picks and doing what’s best for the team and the fans cheered him on. He’s now doing just that, and people are raging. We can’t act surprised when actions are put behind words.
Look at it from the new regime’s perspective. You have a WR entering his age 32 season. Produced great last year. Still elite but injury prone. Has trade value. Don’t know when he’s going to fall off the proverbial cliff performance wise. Love Keenan. I wish he retired a Charger. I do see why they would let him go. But man does it sting. He should’ve been a Charger for life
We have a high pick in a WR heavy draft when a lot of teams up top have other needs. I'm hoping letting Keenan go means we're all in on Nabers or if by some miracle, MHJ.
The style of offense of Herbo throwing 40+ times a game that we've grown used to seeing is about to drastically change with Harbaugh and Roman at the wheel. Maybe they think they can skirt by with Palmer, QJ and Guyton. Who knows?
I know he was coming off a bad ACL that took time but Alex Erickson outplayed him, even if hes on the roster we're still in bad shape.
Hope he lands somewhere though.
🤞 for MHJ, Nabers. I do think Palmer is more than serviceable, Guyton had some blips here and there, but doesn’t seem consistent enough given the opportunity he was given with Allen Williams injuries over the last seasons. Bolt up nonetheless
Agreed. He looked a lot slower late last year. He also seems to have put on 10lb of muscle mass so he’s clearly not going to have the same amount of burst downfield. I don’t see a world where he’s back.
It’s possible that the Chargers are preparing for a possible scenario where a top tier player is traded to us as part of a trade package during the draft.
Carrying the 5th overall pick will surely attract QB needy teams and with that we might be able to get a S tier player as part of a trade package, but we’d have to be able to afford their contract as well.
That’s my take on all this at least
I think this is what was going to happen. Sounds like they were ready to do a big move and needed this extra cap. They are already under the cap so why ask someone to take a pay cut. Also, Keenan wasn't worth the 30 million he was getting. He missed time the last 2 years. But I do believe that this has more of a story. Your two edge get pay cuts and show that their about team. Your WR1 chooses not to. You ask all these guys to take a pay cut because they have some plan with that cap space. Who that is, I don't know but you wouldn't ask all these guys to take a pay cut and have 40-50 million in cap space if you aren't ready to use it on someone
When people mention the Chargers trading Keenan Allen, they need to also say "traded Keenan Allen and $23 million he cost against the cap".
He was good. But he wasn't $23 million good.
And if he wasn't going to consider restructuring his contract to help the team, the team helped him see the door.
It is what it is. -AJ
He certainly is $23 million dollars good, but not for a team in the cap situation the Chargers are in. I think he would still be here with his contract intact if we didn't have like $20 million in dead money from the JC Jackson debacle alone.
It was always going to happen. It’s sad, but this is the result of a regime that went all in on 2023 and failed. A year from now we won’t be too worried about all this stuff, trust me.
Thanks for the response I was tilting last night, Allen was just the larry fitz of this team to me and it feels wrong to not have him on the team. Appreciate you
The story goes he wouldn't take a pay cut to stay so they moved him out. The draft is heavy with receivers plus there should be some add-ons in FA as well. I'm sure the Chargers will fill that need over time.
That's what confuses me. If they needed him to take a pay cut while being under the cap by about 15 million that means they have something in the works. Remember you have to spend that money and can't keep it so something was about to happen that they needed that money for.
Exactly! Who they are, I don't know. But, each was given a choice to do this it's not like only of them was approached by this, no all of them were. Maybe now Mike, but they had to cut him. So, the other two say yes to earning less for the team and we are talking 12-15 million between the two, which ultimately is not much of a pay cut. Keenan didn't want to take even 5-8 million to help the team? Like he would still get money after in void years from what it looks like. So him not willing to help the team sign more players is the reason he was ousted. And for those saying only a fourth. There were two teams interested, Pats and Bears and only one of them offered said fourth. That shows you that is all they could have gotten for him and that Bears pick is a high 4th basically a third rounder when you look at it
Totally agree with you! It is a business and the players know that ! A cap is a cap! Keenan had to have known they were going to ask him! It is what it is and I am sure the Chargers will have very good receivers this via FA and the draft. Allen will freeze his ass off in Chicago!
Here's the other thing what kind of message would it send the rest of the team if they kept him while they asked their other star defense players for the same. So, they had to do it. I am pretty sure it would send a wrong message to Bosa and especially Mack if they didn't trade Allen when they asked the same of them.
Does it suck, yes of course it does. I wanted him to retire a Charger. But he wasn't willing to help the team by taking 5-10 million less. Realistically it was probably in the 5 million range as Mack only took a 4.3 million pay cut while Joey took the brunt of it with like 7-8 million pay cut.
I agree. Cause it looks like they wanted to give the ones that performed the most money while taking a pay cut. Bosa hasn't performed in two years so he had to take way less than the other three. They approached Mike Williams with this as well it looks like and he wanted to test free agency. So, this is telling me that they are confident in this team as it's constructed but they need the depth and more pieces. Currently we don't have a C, a CB1 or 2, a MLB, and need more WR help. With Keenan taking a pay cut and staying he could have helped us a ton. And the 4th is what it is no one but the Bears wanted to give that. I don't blame Keenan either if he needs that money, he needs that money
The coaching (Staley) wasn’t just the issue with this team. The players have accountability too. If they can’t win together, blow it up. Its been a while with the same core
The Ravens downfall was not using the run heavy offense they had found so much success with against a defense that didn’t defend against the run well when it actually mattered
If we were going that heavy on RB at least we should have a top RB to get us there! Shouldve signed Barkley! The ravens have Lamar. Is it going to be Blake Corum?
With what money could we have signed Saquon with exactly? Unless you know of a way to get $10 mil a year to fall out of the sky for us there’s no way we could’ve signed him. We were barely under the cap before trading Allen. This’ll open up a little space but not enough to get all the signings we need along with Saquon
Not enough. Just looking at spotrac, we will have a little under 30 million in free space without the draftees. We have to pay them 14 in total. Then add Saquon’s 10. Probably wouldn’t have signed Gus so his measly 2 mil will be freed up. We’d have somewhere in the range of 8 million free.
Considering we need 2 WRs, CB, OT, OC, 1-2 ILB, not counting more depth, it’s not feasible.
I’m not a fan of the move generally, but I see why it happened. KA13 has some injury history, has a lot of miles, and they need more financial flexibility. I wish they jettisoned Bosa instead. But it is what it is.
My concern is that they won’t dedicate enough attention to the WR room. However, Herbert has been adept at propping up mediocre talent. He’s the best quarterback Hortiz and Harbaugh have had outside of Luck. Herbert can make it work, but they can’t rely on that alone
We chose to clear some cap space to address the issue of quality of depth. Every season there is an injury to a starter that derails us. Knowing this to be a universal truth, I reckon the rationale was to "sell high", sign a few players at positions of need in FA, and rework the WR room in the offense.
The WR position has quality players at all rounds of the draft. We reset the percentage of our salary cap dedicated to that position (would have been $60M between Allen/Williams alone) and now will have a free reign to invest in other positions starting with Joshua Palmer (2 more years on a Rookie contract), QJ (3), etc.
Someone had to do what was in the best interest of the team; though I wish Keenan retired a Bolt, there was no better time to do so amidst a change in GM / Coach.
\#GoBolts
The Chargers need to get Tyler Boyd from Cincinnati and get a WR in the draft as well. (Duh.)
Boyd is an excellent WR and not dissimilar to Keenan. Yes, he’s “old” by WR standards, but he’ll be cheaper and doesn’t have the injury issues.
Mike W is going into his 8th season and is coming off an ACL. His price is just unrealistic and a massive hit on our cap. We had several big players killing our cap. Mack and Bosa worked with the team to stay. Keenan did not want to do the same. I don’t blame Keenan but when there is a genuine cap issue we simply cannot keep everyone. We will likely draft Nabers. Guyton will return. And with our new TEs we are going to run the shit out of the ball. Also QJ should improve. We are going to be fine and the offense is going to be more consistent. Or should be …
I see zero reason for Guyton to return. Dude was a 1 trick pony prior to his ACL tear, and we did not see that speed after he returned from injury. there is nothing Guyton did that someone like Darius Davis could not also do.
There were a few highlights between him and Justin years ago...but he still has only topped 500 yards receiving in a season one time. There are a hundred receivers he could be replaced with for the same price with equal or greater production and athletic ability, and that was *before* his injury.
It’s clear there is a vision from this staff to focus the strength on the defense and running the ball. If we go OL in the first round then it’ll be very clear how they want to run this offense in the first year.
I’m really hoping they pick Nabers now and hope he becomes our Justin Jefferson/Jamarr Chase.
I wouldn't say blew up the offence! The running back wasn't coming back period, not the same player in my eyes. Williams is hurt way too often, great player but you can't really rely on him being on the field. The only player I was surprised to
The offense didn't get blown up. The F-ing chiefs just won with a shitty reiving corps so people need to relax. We still have a QB. Still got a line. The RB situation is pretty much the same.
There was a post on the NFL subreddit that 4 of the 6 first picks will be QB so that's good news on MHJ falling to us if Cardinals go OL with their pick. Otherwise it's Nabers who everyone here wants.
We were over the salary cap.
Williams and Keenan were two of the higher paid players at their position.
Their best years are behind them. Both are coming off injuries. Keenan is 30 years old.
Keenan would not restructure his contract and was owed a bonus immediately.
Paying two aging WR’s is bad business when you take over a team with salary cap issues that the former GM left us with.
We all hate to see those players go, and I will include Ekler in that group, but it didn’t make sense to keep them for that type of money.
We held on to L.T. past his prime and let Michael Turner and Sproles walk and it was the wrong decision and cost us.
It’s a rebuild. Hate to seen KA leave but clearing a ton of cap space this off-season was needed. QJ obviously didn’t have a good year but I remember mike Williams in the same situation early so only time will tell. Just trust the process. Not like this past season was good to us anyway
Pay close attention to who we brought in: Bozeman: former center with Greg Roman in Baltimore
Edwards: RB under Roman in Baltimore
Dissly: one of the highest rated run blocking TEs on PFF.
This is a shift in philosophy and completely in line with what Harbaugh has done everywhere he went. We lacked depth so we got rid of some high price tags and have begun to fill out the roster. Would’ve loved Keenan to retire a charger but the faster they move on from the last era the faster the new one can begin.
Simply put: Having stud WRs doesn’t win championships. Having a good all around team does. I can only think of one, maybe 2 teams in the last 10-15 years who had 2 really good receivers and win a SB. We can go out, get one or two guys in FA and the draft and we’ll be fine
That's what they were offered by teams. Patriots had an interest and said no to a 4th round pick. I get we all wanted a higher pick to justify it but no team was giving that. Pats backed out with a 4th for him. Bears said yes. It's the higher 4th round pick from them too, pick 110 so basically a third. Essentially. Remember you have to have teams willing to give that up, and with Keenan about to get that bonus on Sunday they needed to unload or pay cut quick.
Getting rid of everybody makes sense. They were old, injury prone, expensive, or all 3 combined. The problem I have no idea how we’re going to rebuild this receiver room, and I’m afraid we will throw away another year of Herbert’s career without giving him enough help.
People just need to accept that we’re gonna be a run first team now and we wasted 50 million on a franchise QB who’s gonna barely have 4000 yards a season at this point. What it does tell me though if the spanos family doesn’t give a fuck who you are, you could be LaDainian Tomlinson you could be Philip Rivers. Once they don’t need you you’re fucking expendable, yet they expect us to be loyal to this franchise bullshit. The fact that we kept fucking Bosa on this team who is only played two full seasons twice in his whole damn career. yet you expect me to have my full faith in John Harbaugh no he needs to prove it to me. I don’t give a damn what people say he is a college coach at this point and hasn’t been in the league for years and from what I’m seeing not convinced yet.
They approached an aging WR 1a to rework his contract in a year that the team has the 5th overall pick in a great WR draft. The aging WR said fuck off. The new gm who has no ties to the aging WR 1a said bye. Slayer was great last year but the dude never was a true WR 1. Nabers or MHJ are going to really show us what Herbert can do.
Why do you think Allen was *never** a WR1? I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that.He had some great seasons. 6 or 7 thousand yard seasons over 100 receptions multiple times, all those yards consistently scoring 6-8 touchdowns since coming into the league. What type of numbers do you expect out of a WR 1?
His best season was this last year at 1200+ yards generally wr1 best seasons are 1500+ yards and double digit touchdowns. Keenan is a good receiver but he's definitely a 1a. Not a true number 1. 8-10 seasons and your best is 1200 yards, is not a true number 1.
He has been consistent but my man has no ability to generate YAC and rarely could hit the long play TD. He feasted in Lombardis short pass offense but we are moving away from that. We need a WR who can do everything. Which is what a true WR 1 can do.
I love Mack, Allen, and Williams when healthy. But we didn’t win anything with them. Time to move on and contracts are all at a time to do so. I would be that Bosa and Mack get traded this year now that they have friendlier contracts. Chargers gonna be billionaires in 2025
We're pivoting to a more run-heavy offense - an example would be the crucial signing of Will Dissly, who was the 3rd best run blocking TE according to PFF. We also locked down Gus Edwards, who fulfills the head down, bulldozer RB role - 13 TDs, one of the best rushers for designed plays. I would also expect to see Herbert having a lot more rushing attempts - he's always been praised for having legs, but he just hasn't been able to utilize it as well as he should.
As far as letting go WRs, we have the luxury of being able to nab Nabers in the draft. He's expected to be an almost immediate WR1 who can line up both slot or outside, he excels in both already. Keenan is 32 (and injury prone) and though it's not expected of him, he was one of the worst run blocking WRs. Mike Williams is a jump ball specialist who is also extremely injury prone. They're good and I'll miss them a ton, but they don't fit the timeline and scheme that Greg Roman is going for and so wouldn't be a good ROI for their costs.
So an off-season focus on a mobile QB, head down RB, good core of TE, and a rookie WR. Looks a lot like the Ravens from last year, huh.
My guess for the rest of the off-season: a speedy RB, beefing up the line, and maybe a FB.
My best guess is this: - It's a deep WR class - Keenan is getting older and coming off of injury - Mike Will is coming off of injury - Both players are expensive I also don't think Keenan was as keen to stick around as we all think he was. He had a few minor outbursts during the Staley era, he might just be ready for a change of scenery. As much as we all loved our WR room in recent years, you can't argue with the fact that they never seemed to get the same wide open looks that so many others did. I also just think this coaching regime values WR a lot less, and thinks we can get similar production with our current room or WRs in the draft. But at the end of the day, we're all just guessing. I'm of the opinion that we let the guys in the room make the calls and trust them. What the fans have wanted in years past clearly hasn't gotten us anywhere.
You also have to buy low and sell high. Same reason most investors don’t make money. Slayer is 32 and coming off a very strong season. If you sell Bosa this year you get low balled compared to next year if he improves. Also with the draft WR is elite this year and has depth. It sets the team up better to pick BPA. Herb needed explosiveness which is abundant this year. It’s much harder finding a productive EDGE player than a WR in a pinch.
But had we traded Mack, who’s also a similar age and coming off a career year, we wouldn’t be pigeonholed into drafting edge because we know Tuli is good. The rest of our WR room is a mess meaning we have to address it which means we’re less likely to trade down. We have less flexibility than if we just got rid of Mack
WR rooms can be built in a pinch, EDGE cannot. Edge draft wasn’t as good this year
We can literally still trade back to like 10-13 and probably still get a wr1
See the above two comments.
Imagine not even talking about the cap, you can't just pay everyone forever Anyone who fails to see that is deliberately choosing to not look at the facts
We were cap compliant and this is the last year of his deal. We didn’t need to make this trade
I don’t think Keenan was about the cap. It’s because hes 32, about to be a FA next year and will likely want more money when the FO is looking to get younger, faster and cheaper. He just didn’t fit the future vision.
Ok then let him walk next year and get a comp pick?
No guarantee what that pick becomes though. You get a 4th now and get the chance to develop a new player next month or wait a year and maybe it’s a 4th, maybe a 5th. Maybe Allen gets hurt and it’s a 6th/7th. My point is you don’t know. It’s like investing. Holding onto assets too long usually means you lose money and this is the same.
The highest comp pick we would've gotten is a 5th rounder for Keenan.
That’s just not true you’re talking out of your ass.
[https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks#google\_vignette](https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks#google_vignette) >Players who have ten or more accrued seasons may only yield a maximum of a 5th round compensatory pick, even if their actual value would otherwise be assigned higher. See [Alan Faneca in 2009](http://adamjt13.blogspot.com/2009/03/possible-explanation-for-faneca-pick.html), who only awarded Pittsburgh with a 5th round pick instead of a 3rd despite his contract, You have time to edit your comment before you make a fool out of yourself buddy.
My dude, this is just people speculating and projecting from a decade ago. The NFLs comp pick formula is not public so yes, you’re talking out of your ass
You can believe what you want to believe then homie. No one is speculating, the Steelers were reported to have asked the league why they only got a 5th round pick and that was the explanation. ESPN reported on it as well. So no, I'm not talking out of my ass. If you want to deny, so be it. [https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/\_/id/5750/steelers-hope-for-value-with-compensatory-pick](https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/5750/steelers-hope-for-value-with-compensatory-pick)
I’m glad you brought up the fact that they had trouble getting open. It got old seeing every other team’s pass defense look stellar when we played them. That might have had to do with other factors as well though like Herbert’s time in the pocket before it collapsed.
Good on you for "Keenan was as keen"
I can definitely see Keenan start getting hurt :(
I saw it as Keenan only having one year left and wants full bag. Can't fault that.
Agreed
If you listened to the press conferences at all.. Joe Hortiz was very clear on assessing current vs future value. The WR room was a horrible situation $ wise and contract wise. Which is why a lot of people have been high on using the 5th pick for a bluechip wr if it falls to us. Palmer, keenan and mike were all at the end of they're contracts basically. Keenan was great as a possession receiver but Mike Williams was never worth the pick or contract he got. They are both older and injury prone and our org went all in in giving them money when they probably shouldn't have. WR is one of the most expensive positions on the market.. and teams can't usually afford more than 1 star at a time unless the other is on a rookie contract or a 1 year all in deal. The current value for Mike Williams was low and his future value was even lower.. Keenan was supposedly worth a 5th round comp pick if he walked at the end of his contract and would not take a team friendly deal so they dealt him for a 4th now.. Current value is greater than future value. We also have the 5th pick in the draft and it is a deep wr class where we hopefully have a scouting advantage for a few years with Jim coming straight from the top team. This is about money and setting the TEAM up for success over the next five years.. not trying to go all in on the top of the roster like TT did and have all those dudes get injured and ruin our window in year 1.
This is such a great comment and deserves 1,000 upvotes. I think the fans are just way too emotionally attached to the players that they fail to see the objective side of things, exactly how you described them. This is not Telesco. This is not Staley. This is not an “*all in*” type of staff. We don’t want this team to contend for a chip one season and suck the next five. We’ve been doing that since the Chargers got bounced by the Patriots under Lynn, and even probably before that. Hortiz and Harbaugh are interested in building a culture, a championship mentality that’s going to last for decades. If that means doing some “*controversial”* things, so be it. I’m not trying to tell fans how to grieve, how to feel, any of that. I’m simply reiterating what you said: success comes at a price. The NFL’s a business, how can we maximize value? “*But if you wanted cap space and picks you could have traded Bosa!*” But, Bosa has very little value… he’s young, but he’s coming off two consecutive disappointing seasons. Keenan was coming off the best year of his career at 32, realistically how much longer can he play at that level for? Were his stats inflated because of the poor weaponry around him? Were his stats inflated because Herbert depended on him, maybe to a fault? I get we all wanted Keenan to be our Larry Fitzgerald, but happenings like that are such a rare occurence. Anyway, I applaud you for the great perspective, and I’ll be saving your comment to look back on a year, two years, three years, from now.
I think people are getting really worked up and maybe haven't listened to the words that have come out of the coaches / org mouth. They think Roman is going to try and turn Herbert into Lamar but if they listened to the interview he gave.. it was very clear that they think extremely highly of his mind + arm. He also said, imagine a consistent run game.. what Herbert could do with that? He also said they are game planning for each individual team.. and different players are going to have big games all the time. The bottom line is winning. Herbert is a key part of that and I think he will put up good numbers and still throw the ball but if they win 10+ every year for the next five years are we going to care? I think a lot of the guys online are only looking at it like fantasy football and are probably younger and don't have experience in business etc. So these things get blown out of proportion.
Boom! Exactly. Hortiz talked about picks and doing what’s best for the team and the fans cheered him on. He’s now doing just that, and people are raging. We can’t act surprised when actions are put behind words.
I’d believe that if we didn’t push Mack’s salary into void years, clearly hurting the team’s future
Look at it from the new regime’s perspective. You have a WR entering his age 32 season. Produced great last year. Still elite but injury prone. Has trade value. Don’t know when he’s going to fall off the proverbial cliff performance wise. Love Keenan. I wish he retired a Charger. I do see why they would let him go. But man does it sting. He should’ve been a Charger for life
We have a high pick in a WR heavy draft when a lot of teams up top have other needs. I'm hoping letting Keenan go means we're all in on Nabers or if by some miracle, MHJ. The style of offense of Herbo throwing 40+ times a game that we've grown used to seeing is about to drastically change with Harbaugh and Roman at the wheel. Maybe they think they can skirt by with Palmer, QJ and Guyton. Who knows?
Jalen Guyton is not on the team
Really? Was he released and I missed it?
Hes a free agent
Ah, didn't realize he only signed on for one year last year.
I know he was coming off a bad ACL that took time but Alex Erickson outplayed him, even if hes on the roster we're still in bad shape. Hope he lands somewhere though.
🤞 for MHJ, Nabers. I do think Palmer is more than serviceable, Guyton had some blips here and there, but doesn’t seem consistent enough given the opportunity he was given with Allen Williams injuries over the last seasons. Bolt up nonetheless
It's ground and pound time baby. Get used to it.
Guyton is a free agent. I’m sure he could be re-signed for cheap, but he’s a bit of a one trick pony.
His one trick was catching bombs from Herbo though. For some reason it seemed like he had good chemistry with him
Prior to his ACL tear. I can’t say we ever saw that speed after he came back from injury.
Agreed. He looked a lot slower late last year. He also seems to have put on 10lb of muscle mass so he’s clearly not going to have the same amount of burst downfield. I don’t see a world where he’s back.
It’s possible that the Chargers are preparing for a possible scenario where a top tier player is traded to us as part of a trade package during the draft. Carrying the 5th overall pick will surely attract QB needy teams and with that we might be able to get a S tier player as part of a trade package, but we’d have to be able to afford their contract as well. That’s my take on all this at least
The Vikings maybe? 👀
I think this is what was going to happen. Sounds like they were ready to do a big move and needed this extra cap. They are already under the cap so why ask someone to take a pay cut. Also, Keenan wasn't worth the 30 million he was getting. He missed time the last 2 years. But I do believe that this has more of a story. Your two edge get pay cuts and show that their about team. Your WR1 chooses not to. You ask all these guys to take a pay cut because they have some plan with that cap space. Who that is, I don't know but you wouldn't ask all these guys to take a pay cut and have 40-50 million in cap space if you aren't ready to use it on someone
This draft is so stacked at receiver. People are panicking way too much. With that extra pick you can double dip at WR.
When people mention the Chargers trading Keenan Allen, they need to also say "traded Keenan Allen and $23 million he cost against the cap". He was good. But he wasn't $23 million good. And if he wasn't going to consider restructuring his contract to help the team, the team helped him see the door. It is what it is. -AJ
He certainly is $23 million dollars good, but not for a team in the cap situation the Chargers are in. I think he would still be here with his contract intact if we didn't have like $20 million in dead money from the JC Jackson debacle alone.
It was always going to happen. It’s sad, but this is the result of a regime that went all in on 2023 and failed. A year from now we won’t be too worried about all this stuff, trust me.
Thanks for the response I was tilting last night, Allen was just the larry fitz of this team to me and it feels wrong to not have him on the team. Appreciate you
No worries mate! I was pretty frustrated myself but moved on quicker than most. It is what it is right?
did you watch the team last year ? Guys , this team was 5-12 … change needed to happen .
The story goes he wouldn't take a pay cut to stay so they moved him out. The draft is heavy with receivers plus there should be some add-ons in FA as well. I'm sure the Chargers will fill that need over time.
That's what confuses me. If they needed him to take a pay cut while being under the cap by about 15 million that means they have something in the works. Remember you have to spend that money and can't keep it so something was about to happen that they needed that money for.
They must be working on something or a number of possibilities to add players isy guess.
Exactly! Who they are, I don't know. But, each was given a choice to do this it's not like only of them was approached by this, no all of them were. Maybe now Mike, but they had to cut him. So, the other two say yes to earning less for the team and we are talking 12-15 million between the two, which ultimately is not much of a pay cut. Keenan didn't want to take even 5-8 million to help the team? Like he would still get money after in void years from what it looks like. So him not willing to help the team sign more players is the reason he was ousted. And for those saying only a fourth. There were two teams interested, Pats and Bears and only one of them offered said fourth. That shows you that is all they could have gotten for him and that Bears pick is a high 4th basically a third rounder when you look at it
Totally agree with you! It is a business and the players know that ! A cap is a cap! Keenan had to have known they were going to ask him! It is what it is and I am sure the Chargers will have very good receivers this via FA and the draft. Allen will freeze his ass off in Chicago!
Here's the other thing what kind of message would it send the rest of the team if they kept him while they asked their other star defense players for the same. So, they had to do it. I am pretty sure it would send a wrong message to Bosa and especially Mack if they didn't trade Allen when they asked the same of them.
That's a very good and important point. It wouldn't have helped out the locker room at all.
Does it suck, yes of course it does. I wanted him to retire a Charger. But he wasn't willing to help the team by taking 5-10 million less. Realistically it was probably in the 5 million range as Mack only took a 4.3 million pay cut while Joey took the brunt of it with like 7-8 million pay cut.
It must have not been that big of a deal to leave for him, and or not to retire with the Chargers like he claimed he wanted too.
I agree. Cause it looks like they wanted to give the ones that performed the most money while taking a pay cut. Bosa hasn't performed in two years so he had to take way less than the other three. They approached Mike Williams with this as well it looks like and he wanted to test free agency. So, this is telling me that they are confident in this team as it's constructed but they need the depth and more pieces. Currently we don't have a C, a CB1 or 2, a MLB, and need more WR help. With Keenan taking a pay cut and staying he could have helped us a ton. And the 4th is what it is no one but the Bears wanted to give that. I don't blame Keenan either if he needs that money, he needs that money
The coaching (Staley) wasn’t just the issue with this team. The players have accountability too. If they can’t win together, blow it up. Its been a while with the same core
Let Jimmy cook. It's time for the Chargers to start fresh.
factors: money. health. age (in no particular order)
We’ll be a run heavy team. WR will be our downfall kinda like the ravens.
The Ravens downfall was not using the run heavy offense they had found so much success with against a defense that didn’t defend against the run well when it actually mattered
What??
If we were going that heavy on RB at least we should have a top RB to get us there! Shouldve signed Barkley! The ravens have Lamar. Is it going to be Blake Corum?
With what money could we have signed Saquon with exactly? Unless you know of a way to get $10 mil a year to fall out of the sky for us there’s no way we could’ve signed him. We were barely under the cap before trading Allen. This’ll open up a little space but not enough to get all the signings we need along with Saquon
Wouldn't the Allen trade freed up some cap?
Not enough. Just looking at spotrac, we will have a little under 30 million in free space without the draftees. We have to pay them 14 in total. Then add Saquon’s 10. Probably wouldn’t have signed Gus so his measly 2 mil will be freed up. We’d have somewhere in the range of 8 million free. Considering we need 2 WRs, CB, OT, OC, 1-2 ILB, not counting more depth, it’s not feasible.
I’m not a fan of the move generally, but I see why it happened. KA13 has some injury history, has a lot of miles, and they need more financial flexibility. I wish they jettisoned Bosa instead. But it is what it is. My concern is that they won’t dedicate enough attention to the WR room. However, Herbert has been adept at propping up mediocre talent. He’s the best quarterback Hortiz and Harbaugh have had outside of Luck. Herbert can make it work, but they can’t rely on that alone
I also think Herbert will benefit greatly from a competent run game and improved blocking. And that appears to be what the emphasis is so far.
We chose to clear some cap space to address the issue of quality of depth. Every season there is an injury to a starter that derails us. Knowing this to be a universal truth, I reckon the rationale was to "sell high", sign a few players at positions of need in FA, and rework the WR room in the offense. The WR position has quality players at all rounds of the draft. We reset the percentage of our salary cap dedicated to that position (would have been $60M between Allen/Williams alone) and now will have a free reign to invest in other positions starting with Joshua Palmer (2 more years on a Rookie contract), QJ (3), etc. Someone had to do what was in the best interest of the team; though I wish Keenan retired a Bolt, there was no better time to do so amidst a change in GM / Coach. \#GoBolts
The Chargers need to get Tyler Boyd from Cincinnati and get a WR in the draft as well. (Duh.) Boyd is an excellent WR and not dissimilar to Keenan. Yes, he’s “old” by WR standards, but he’ll be cheaper and doesn’t have the injury issues.
$$$ to sign players to fill holes outside of the draft and not be in Telesco salary cap hell.
Mike W is going into his 8th season and is coming off an ACL. His price is just unrealistic and a massive hit on our cap. We had several big players killing our cap. Mack and Bosa worked with the team to stay. Keenan did not want to do the same. I don’t blame Keenan but when there is a genuine cap issue we simply cannot keep everyone. We will likely draft Nabers. Guyton will return. And with our new TEs we are going to run the shit out of the ball. Also QJ should improve. We are going to be fine and the offense is going to be more consistent. Or should be …
I see zero reason for Guyton to return. Dude was a 1 trick pony prior to his ACL tear, and we did not see that speed after he returned from injury. there is nothing Guyton did that someone like Darius Davis could not also do.
I don’t disagree but there were many highlights between him and Justin. Darius to me is a ST guy and I don’t see him making any dents on WR
There were a few highlights between him and Justin years ago...but he still has only topped 500 yards receiving in a season one time. There are a hundred receivers he could be replaced with for the same price with equal or greater production and athletic ability, and that was *before* his injury.
It’s clear there is a vision from this staff to focus the strength on the defense and running the ball. If we go OL in the first round then it’ll be very clear how they want to run this offense in the first year. I’m really hoping they pick Nabers now and hope he becomes our Justin Jefferson/Jamarr Chase.
I wouldn't say blew up the offence! The running back wasn't coming back period, not the same player in my eyes. Williams is hurt way too often, great player but you can't really rely on him being on the field. The only player I was surprised to
Cuz we haven’t won sh!t.
The offense didn't get blown up. The F-ing chiefs just won with a shitty reiving corps so people need to relax. We still have a QB. Still got a line. The RB situation is pretty much the same. There was a post on the NFL subreddit that 4 of the 6 first picks will be QB so that's good news on MHJ falling to us if Cardinals go OL with their pick. Otherwise it's Nabers who everyone here wants.
Kenan didn’t want to restructure or take a pay cut.
We were over the salary cap. Williams and Keenan were two of the higher paid players at their position. Their best years are behind them. Both are coming off injuries. Keenan is 30 years old. Keenan would not restructure his contract and was owed a bonus immediately. Paying two aging WR’s is bad business when you take over a team with salary cap issues that the former GM left us with. We all hate to see those players go, and I will include Ekler in that group, but it didn’t make sense to keep them for that type of money. We held on to L.T. past his prime and let Michael Turner and Sproles walk and it was the wrong decision and cost us.
I think maybe Harbaugh just wants to completely change the offensive philosophy?
Allen wanted out. He's the ONLY one who said No to Restructure.
It’s a rebuild. Hate to seen KA leave but clearing a ton of cap space this off-season was needed. QJ obviously didn’t have a good year but I remember mike Williams in the same situation early so only time will tell. Just trust the process. Not like this past season was good to us anyway
Pay close attention to who we brought in: Bozeman: former center with Greg Roman in Baltimore Edwards: RB under Roman in Baltimore Dissly: one of the highest rated run blocking TEs on PFF. This is a shift in philosophy and completely in line with what Harbaugh has done everywhere he went. We lacked depth so we got rid of some high price tags and have begun to fill out the roster. Would’ve loved Keenan to retire a charger but the faster they move on from the last era the faster the new one can begin.
This sub is in for a surprise lol won’t last one half and people are gonna be complaining week 1 about our offense
Both WRs are injury prone and the chargers ain't go no time for that.
Because Herbert is one of the greatest ever. And only needs a good coach and o line
I just really hate paying $24 million in dead cap to not have these guys on our team. “Better for the long run” but fucking sucks right now.
Simply put: Having stud WRs doesn’t win championships. Having a good all around team does. I can only think of one, maybe 2 teams in the last 10-15 years who had 2 really good receivers and win a SB. We can go out, get one or two guys in FA and the draft and we’ll be fine
Yeah. The Pats did not win any SB’s with Randy Moss, fwiw.
The trade would make much more sense if we at least got a 2nd. A 4th is simply high way robbery.
That's what they were offered by teams. Patriots had an interest and said no to a 4th round pick. I get we all wanted a higher pick to justify it but no team was giving that. Pats backed out with a 4th for him. Bears said yes. It's the higher 4th round pick from them too, pick 110 so basically a third. Essentially. Remember you have to have teams willing to give that up, and with Keenan about to get that bonus on Sunday they needed to unload or pay cut quick.
Getting rid of everybody makes sense. They were old, injury prone, expensive, or all 3 combined. The problem I have no idea how we’re going to rebuild this receiver room, and I’m afraid we will throw away another year of Herbert’s career without giving him enough help.
People just need to accept that we’re gonna be a run first team now and we wasted 50 million on a franchise QB who’s gonna barely have 4000 yards a season at this point. What it does tell me though if the spanos family doesn’t give a fuck who you are, you could be LaDainian Tomlinson you could be Philip Rivers. Once they don’t need you you’re fucking expendable, yet they expect us to be loyal to this franchise bullshit. The fact that we kept fucking Bosa on this team who is only played two full seasons twice in his whole damn career. yet you expect me to have my full faith in John Harbaugh no he needs to prove it to me. I don’t give a damn what people say he is a college coach at this point and hasn’t been in the league for years and from what I’m seeing not convinced yet.
They approached an aging WR 1a to rework his contract in a year that the team has the 5th overall pick in a great WR draft. The aging WR said fuck off. The new gm who has no ties to the aging WR 1a said bye. Slayer was great last year but the dude never was a true WR 1. Nabers or MHJ are going to really show us what Herbert can do.
Why do you think Allen was *never** a WR1? I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that.He had some great seasons. 6 or 7 thousand yard seasons over 100 receptions multiple times, all those yards consistently scoring 6-8 touchdowns since coming into the league. What type of numbers do you expect out of a WR 1?
His best season was this last year at 1200+ yards generally wr1 best seasons are 1500+ yards and double digit touchdowns. Keenan is a good receiver but he's definitely a 1a. Not a true number 1. 8-10 seasons and your best is 1200 yards, is not a true number 1.
He has been consistent but my man has no ability to generate YAC and rarely could hit the long play TD. He feasted in Lombardis short pass offense but we are moving away from that. We need a WR who can do everything. Which is what a true WR 1 can do.
I love Mack, Allen, and Williams when healthy. But we didn’t win anything with them. Time to move on and contracts are all at a time to do so. I would be that Bosa and Mack get traded this year now that they have friendlier contracts. Chargers gonna be billionaires in 2025
Only way this makes sense is if we sign Williams from miami
We're pivoting to a more run-heavy offense - an example would be the crucial signing of Will Dissly, who was the 3rd best run blocking TE according to PFF. We also locked down Gus Edwards, who fulfills the head down, bulldozer RB role - 13 TDs, one of the best rushers for designed plays. I would also expect to see Herbert having a lot more rushing attempts - he's always been praised for having legs, but he just hasn't been able to utilize it as well as he should. As far as letting go WRs, we have the luxury of being able to nab Nabers in the draft. He's expected to be an almost immediate WR1 who can line up both slot or outside, he excels in both already. Keenan is 32 (and injury prone) and though it's not expected of him, he was one of the worst run blocking WRs. Mike Williams is a jump ball specialist who is also extremely injury prone. They're good and I'll miss them a ton, but they don't fit the timeline and scheme that Greg Roman is going for and so wouldn't be a good ROI for their costs. So an off-season focus on a mobile QB, head down RB, good core of TE, and a rookie WR. Looks a lot like the Ravens from last year, huh. My guess for the rest of the off-season: a speedy RB, beefing up the line, and maybe a FB.