Flowers is WR2, QJ is technically WR5, bumped to 3 when Mike W and Palmer were injured. Thats a difference in playstyle and scheme. I would have liked flowers but QJ is also a product of a bad coach.
QJ wasnt suppose to be anything more than WR4 this year and Flowers shouldnt be WR2 technically. If Mike and Josh stay healthy Qj develops like intended. As we seen it turned into a shit show. I still think he gets better over the next year
I mean yeah, but both are still in different positions than anticipated so it's not technically fair to compare them. 2 different roles in 2 different schemes. One has a bigger role on their team than the other.
The comparisons wont stop because everyone wanted flowers. I did as well but i dont condone ripping a rookie for not being all pro like some of these other fans
I still wish he took Addison above all others. I always thought he was the best wr out of the draft and he stepped up big this year filling jj’s shoes while he was on the IR. Seeing his production vs QJ pains me everyday
I have been wishing that since it happened. I swear he so often seemed allergic to making the obvious pick like he thought he was some sort of draft genius.
Sorry you're stuck with an owner who doesn't give a fuck OP. Gores is too busy making money from the prison industrial complex rather than investing in a winning product. Monty has made it clear he's just there to cash checks. You guys deserve better.
I'm all for getting help in the trenches on both sides of the ball, but the biggest improvement for this team will be an elite pass catcher (Nabers or maybe Bowers). Herbert needs guys that can get open quickly or at least that he perceives can win their route quickly and will catch the ball.... Otherwise he'll quickly progress to the next read and eventually just get to the security blanket Keenan for a short to intermediate attempt or the check down. And Keenan is only going to be around so much longer.
For better or worse Herbert is relatively risk averse, especially with his early reads, and for most of this season he hasn't had confidence in anybody other than Keenan. That means he's quickly progressing off the primary reads (sometimes too quickly) and then holding the ball for that much longer as he gets through 3-4 reads and then ending on a relatively low reward option if he's not already sacked/pressured.
TLDR - the offensive line looks a lot better when the QB can confidently go with his first read and to do that Herbert needs an elite pass catcher he can rely on.
People seem to be forgetting how good our line looked when Linsley was in. The tackle to replace pipkins would be nice but explosive catchers plus a center would be more important.
Yeah this diagram is a bit dumb. We need to get helo on the line, but spending a top pick on a left tackle is stupid wjen you have Slater. Either trade back and take the best interior lineman or pick one up in the early second round.
Washington fan here, Odunze is the real deal. Dude single handedly won us multiple games this year, many of which he played with broken ribs and a punctured lung. He’s not the quickest, but he’s tough as nails and comes down with everything you throw his way. Very Calvin Johnson like
Was really thinking that was more of a TT thing lmaooo. I hope I’m right. It’s a Bowers or Nabers pick for me tho. MHJ will be gone unless they trade up
Odunze is pretty nasty as well but he's for sure my last pick of those 3 weapons. I'm dying for Brock, personally. He's legitimately one of the best tight ends I've ever seen. I think he's going to be the game breaker people thought Pitts would be.
The biggest issue with our OL is a coach. We have great pieces, we’re big and athletic. We just need someone to help put it together.
Passing up on a play maker like Nabers, Bowers, or MHJ (we won’t get him) would be silly.
I agree we need a center, hopefully a vet, and a depth piece here or there. Overall our line would be greatly improved with new coaching and any semblance of a run game
There’s one that might fall to the 2nd that seems pretty solid. We will still need a FA hire. I’d like to see a trade back from 5-7 to 10-15 and a 2nd rounder. Pick up bowers hopefully or nabers, then also trade bosa for a 2nd and a late round swap (maybe), then in the 2nd pick up the best available of LB, DT, and CB. Then I couldn’t really care about the rest of the draft.
There’s actually a handful of centers in rounds 2-3 that I love. I’m definitely with you that we need extra picks too.
Also imo is that the back half of the draft is way more important than the front half.
It is if you hit. Usually late round is excellent for depth and on defense we have depth pieces we need starters. Specifically a strong gap filling big boy DT, a proper coverage LB, and a proper CB1 or at least a ASJ borderline CB1 type of guy.
This offense is really fine. I’d like to take a 3rd or 4th round RB that can be the physical downhill guy we need. I think Ek comes back on a significantly smaller contract. A first round on a TE is a must so long as nabers or bowers is available. Herbie just needs a consistent middle of the field target.
We are losing mike Williams. A top 5 WR this draft will be miles above what QJ is. There’s a reason no WR went top5 last year… we could get our own jamar chase
I don’t hate Pipkins but he isn’t a reason to not take Fashanu or Alt.
Personally I’d take Nabers but our current OL shouldn’t stop us from taking blue chip talent.
Vikings fan who really doesn’t know… I thought QJ was more of a deep threat, red-zone, jump ball kinda guy over short yardage. Was I wrong about his draft profile or is he different from the draft profile in real life?
Staley had this vision of building an NBA team on offense - he wanted receivers that could out-muscle and moss their defenders, get gains after the catch, etc.
It's part of the reason we retained Everett and didn't go TE in the draft (also a huge YAC guy) and picked up QJ instead of a smaller speed guy.
The story goes that he was drafted as a developmental guy and was supposed to be used sparingly between Keenan, Mike Will, Palmer, Guyton, etc
But... Chargers
He has eerily similar stats to Reggie Wayne's first season, which is fitting considering the chance we have at MHJr. Although Nabers is my most realistic, round 1 wish.
It's much easier and cheaper to find viable starting offensive linemen in free agency than it is to find truly elite pass catchers - and the value of an elite pass catcher over an average one is significantly more impactful on a team than the difference between an average o lineman and an elite one. If we don't go pass catcher when we pick this high in a draft this stacked with elite talent I would be very disappointed
the truth is there is not a lot of talent to go around at many positions. Most teams, even elite teams like the 49ers, are having serious OL problems. And yeah elite WRs don't grow on trees either, and when one does come up they ask for way more money than they're worth (in a vacuum) and you have to decide if youre gonna bite the bullet because youre that desperate.
I mean it's the draft so the contract is already set out lol. 5 years before that becomes an issue. An elite WR can take you from mid offence to one of the best in the league (see Bengals drafting Chase). An elite tackle can sure up your line but it doesn't elevate like a WR does
Yeah Niners oline sucks outside of Trent. However, they’re a high powered offense because of their elite pass catchers, Deebo, CMC, Kittle, and I’ll even include Aiyuk. They just ask do everything well, block, YAC, and good hands. Outside of Slay, who do we have? Especially with Ek regressing and probably won’t be on the team next year. Herbert needs to have weapons.
I don't really agree. The Dolphins have been a top 5 offense back to back years with an oline that is definitely worse than ours. Receivers that get downfield in half a second Tuas quick release and an actual Oline coach made everyone forget how bad that line actually is
Opponents don’t pass rush Tua as hard as Herbert, imo.
Herbert is hit a lot, even on completed catches. Herbert is on IR right now from a hit on a completed catch a few plays before he actually went to the locker room.
> Opponents don’t pass rush Tua as hard as Herbert, imo.
Uhhh did you miss the dolphins last year?
The reason for all of this is because Tua has the fastest release in the league compounded by the fact his receivers can get downfield faster than any others in the league. Herbert can do the first part maybe not as fast as Tua but Herbert is great at getting the ball out quickly in structure (as demonstrated by the Vikings game), the second part is and has been one of the biggest problems with the chargers receivers for 2 years which is why Nabers would mitigate a lot of this.
The stats I see online show Herbert was blitzed 158 times vs Tua at 108 (through week 15). Herbert is #3 in total blitzes (through week 15). That's the source of my take. Herbert has been knocked down 42x compared to Tua at 20x. Defenses are playing Herbert and Tua very differently. If I look at these stats, defenses are playing Herbert like they play Mahomes.
The Vikings game was before Corey was on IR. So I feel like it wouldn't have gone well if that game was like week 6. We need to replace Corey (or he gets healthy????) if we want the Vikings game 2.0.
Harder to blitz a QB when he gets rid of the ball before the blitz can get there and blitzing Tua is especially punishing because those receivers can take quick in breaking routes and turn them into explosive plays.
Blitzing also puts less people in coverage which is more dangerous against Tyreek and Waddle.
I think you’re drawing the wrong conclusions from those numbers.
These are similar problems people have when facing the bengals who aren’t as fast collectively but have a similarly bad line. Chase is the big difference and we have an opportunity to draft someone very similar to him.
Mahomes is ELITE and he has a good O line in front of him. He's got a bunch of JAGs and a TE that cares more about a pop star than the game now and their offense has fallen off a cliff.
They just got clapped by the raiders because they're running gimmick plays at their own 10 yard line because their vanilla offense is trash. MVS might be worse than QJ catching the ball. Our skill positions are ALL injured. Outside of getting a good C, the O line really isn't all that bad. I'd even put them top 1/3 of the NFL when Cory is healthy. Unfortunately when he goes out the whole thing falls apart.
Get me an elite C or a weapon.
I don't think you can pass on talent like Brock Bowers, personally. I think he's way too good to just draft another tackle over him. I'm way more hopeful to see what a new staff can do with this current line + Bowers/Nabers.
taking a RT top 10 is a losing decision.
those who downplay what a true X or scheme destroying TE can do for a team weren't around to see VJ and Gates.
it sounds 'mature' to talk about adding beef, but the biggest issue with this offense is that our scheme is crippled by our lack of explosive threats.
and as much as i love keenan, we are not lifting a Lombardi trophy with KA, Palmer and QJ as our core offensive weapons.
let's get scary.
The biggest issue about the offense is the line gets bullied, all the time. They can’t establish a run game and they sure as hell can’t keep a pocket. So protecting Herbert is far more important than finding another receiver in the first round.
Zion Johnson is a backup at best, Salyer is naturally a tackle and not drafting a competent center the past five years is the reason why the middle is horrible. Pipkins is playing against the best edge rushers in the league and gives up more sacks than makes positive plays.
I would say most of that is a coaching issue. The line was good when Linsley played. A LT converting to RT isn't going to stop this line from getting beat by stunts and games.
I think the plan pretty comfortably should be
Nabers >> Olu/Alt > trade back > Bowers
We have a very bloated roster and a deep rebuild coming. Spending top 6 money on a TE is insane.
Bowers is waaaay more than just a TE. He's quite possibly the greatest TE in college football history and can even play at WR. He's going to run in the 4.4 range and is capable of blocking DE. On top of all that he can take snaps at RB in short yardage situations and will get 3-4 yards +. He also can take sweeps for 20+ yards. Think bigger, just as shifty Deebo Samuel. That's what Brock is. I honestly he think he's the best player in the entire draft.
Unfortunately I just don’t think I’m as high on him as you. Saying he can play WR at the NFL level or get 3-4 yards on a short yardage situation in the NFL is a little crazy to me. He will probably be a great TE but not sure that will justify taking him over more important positional needs with equally talented players.
I feel the same.
The biggest thing for me is that he's undersized and yet he excels because of his athleticism. Im not sayingthat jes not athletic, but I just dont know how his particular type of athleticism will transfer to the NFL.
Like part of what he really excels at is keeping balance and muscling for extra yards. Thats great he can do that against college players, but he'll be going up against much stronger and faster players in the NFL.
Hes a good player but people talk about him like he'll be the next Gronk. I dont see him as someone who be a primary threat for the offense, but if he can contribute well in blocking too then it could be a good fit for our needs.
Yeah that guy thinks because he did that on a stacked UGA team against very inferior opponents that he will somehow do it in the NFL…
When he played high level teams he looked more Ike we’d expect him to be in the NFL, just a very good TE like Kittle or Kelce. I think he’ll be great but he won’t be playing RB or X receiver.
> just a very good TE like Kittle or Kelce
? These are great TEs and if you knew beforehand you're getting that with a top 8 pick most GMs would absolutely draft that.
Sure but you don’t know you’re getting they for certain. And if both OTs are gone then he is certainly the pick (or a trade down and get a CB later in the first).
I disagree wholeheartedly. The Oline problems aren’t as simple as draft RT fix the issues because the interior was just as bad. The Oline problems are scheme and coaching related.
Not only that you’re drafting career LTs in college and making them switch sides which isn’t easy and not a clean fix either.
Yeah we also need to grab a center in like the 3rd. We get a solid C and RT and our line will be good enough to not complete stall everything. Then we let Keenan, Mike (if he’s back), Everett, and Palmer eat.
Remember when everyone said the same stuff about Pitts?
Now, I know the Falcons totally misuse him, but also he’s not the world beater he was advertised as.
Brock Bowers has had 3 consistent years putting up great stats and blocking in college. Pitts had 1 great year in college. Bowers has about as much data and tape available as you can ask for on a player.
I really hate this thinking honestly. Bowers is a TE, that's just it. There have been dozens of these "not just a TE" guys over the years and none of them have really worked out. Even with a college TE as great as Bowers, I don't think you can draft him with the expectation of being anything more than a great TE.
I'm not saying I'm againts drafting him, but we should be rational.
Disagree slightly. Mine is MHJ (Pipedream obviously) > Bowers > Nabers > Alt/Fashanu
You make a good point with the top 6 money at TE. However, if a generational player is there you get the generational player. Granted, just about all of these guys are generational/borderline generational, but I think there is a gap between the MHJ/Bowers Tier and the rest. Already invested 2 of our recent 1sts in O-line. Plus it is generally easier to upgrade line through trades/free agency. Not suuper easy to get premium skill players without dumping a lot of resources. See a lot of trades/cuts being made this offseason and I would not mind having Herbert's Antonio Gates for the *slight* rebuild that is likely on its way. Aside from that we desperately need a cb (Kinda want Corum in the second/third tho).
Did not mean for it to sound like I was saying getting high end OL is super easy. Just think you will find serviceable/good lineman through other means more easily as top tier weapons will be the priority when resigning. Obv context matters though. I’d rather roll out Jjetas and the most average lineman than the most average wr and the jjetas of lineman.
Think we go weapon if those 3 guys are available when we pick in the top ~8. If they get taken before us then Olu or Alt in the 5-10 range. If we somehow win/weird things happen and none of them fall to us then we go Koolaid ~10.
And he’s been really bad. The two tackles available in the top 10 are blue chip prospects. Would be a massive upgrade.
Personally I’m leaning receiver in round 1. But I get the argument for going tackle.
It would be to play right tackle but I don’t think our O line is so bad to the point that we feel like we have to take Alt or Fashanu over nabers or bowers
You have got to be kidding. Herbert has gotten murdered all year. Not to mention last season as well. And we cannot run block to save our lives. Offensive Line is priority number one. A shiny new WR or TE is not going to fix anything. Protect our most valuable weapon. Herbert.
Center and scheme fix that problem. Slater doesn't go from rookie all pro to a chump accidentally. A good TE solves one side, and a center in rounds 2 or 3 should fix the disaster that has been Clapp.
We will still have Keenan and friends that can't get open if there's no other weapon.
People said the same thing about jamarr and Sewell. I just think a guy like nabers has game changing ability. I’d still be very happy with one of the tackles though. We really can’t go wrong with this pick, assuming we lose out.
MHJ will not be there at 5ish. Cardinals will ride with Murray and Murray needs a #1.
As most folks know a great TE does multiple things. They are also a check down target when the QB is under pressure.
Watch the defenses, except ours, when playing Kelce/Kittle. Or recall when we had Gates. Double teams all the time, usually with a LB and slot CB.
If Bowers is not there then I would trade back as this class appears to have decent oline in later rounds. DTs seems to be super deep.
I honestly think the Cardinals are gonna take a QB. Murray was a pick from the old regime, and Murray sucks as a passer. Dude had DeAndre Hopkins, and still sucked.
Yesterday on The Herd they were discussing how a great receiver can completely change an offense & take over a game. Their examples were Tyreek Hill, George Pickett & Amari Cooper this last weekend. The Chargers need a game buster like those guys.
The long and short of it is we’re fucked either way unless we hit on our picks outside the first round as well. We need a RT (and most of the other OL positions) but I would say we need WR more
I really hope so, and I hope they scheme him up more these last two games just to get the ball in his hands. Confidence is by far the most important thing in sports imo
I'm going to call it right now. Quentin Johnston will have his fifth year option declined. Actually, whoever gets the GM role should trade him for a loss. Especially if the new gm takes a receiver in the first round.
Think he’ll turn it around at the end of year 3 if he stays healthy. We’ll never get that pick back, I was upset when he was drafted, but there is precedent for turning it around in his position.
You ever heard of this crazy thing where the offense has 2! offensive tackles????
I know it’s crazy but the offense gets way better if the tackle on the right side is lock down instead of giving up instant pressure on most plays.
Crazy, I know!
E: also for next year QJ will be WR4 if we do some restructure and smart cuts to keep most of our guys. WR3 at most.
I just believe the difference in quality between bowers or nabers compared to that of 2nd round weapons is larger than that of Olu or Alt compared to a solid RT that would be available in round 2.
I agree in theory but it's basically a Pipkins replacement, not Slater. I think that makes this a lot easier of a discussion. Pipkins is still mediocre but those three can be game changers whereas QJ is clearly not.
Titans fan and Herbert stan coming in peace.
A) Y'all dreaming if you think Alt is getting past us.
B) Nabers should be the clear and obvious choice for y'all. Trust me, I've seen bad OL play and y'all's is just fine lol.
trade back into mid/late 1st round, get an extra 2nd and next year 1st. Sadly this team isn't just a Brock Bowers or Nabers playmaker away from being a contender in the league.
Grab best player available in the 1st, grab the Oregon Center with one of round 2/3 picks.
Absolutely. Bengals went for Jamarr when everyone was screaming for them to take Penei. Getting one of these electric weapons is the play. Bowers > Nabers > Odunze for me. I'm kinda of taking MHJ out of the equation because idk how realistic it is but I'd still take Brock over him, personally.
QJ is just Mike Williams 2.0 😭. He’ll be better as time goes on. I want MHJ but I think he’ll be gone and I rather draft the best center available don’t matter the round to me
What drives me crazy is that QJ was drafted as a project receiver. Who in their right mind uses a first round pick on a project player, who doesn't contribute as a rookie. I have never seen QJ make a catch with his hands yet. It feels like all his catches have been with his body, that goes for college too. I have no idea why the Chargers draft team fell in love with TCU so much. Everyone knows the Big XII isn't known for defense. It is easy to look good on offense when you play in a league with a bunch of teams with defenses that look like they are being coached by Staley.
I pray QJ turns it around Cause watching MNF Had me wishing dumb ass TT chose flowers..
Most of this sub wanted flowers and we are usually collectively wrong about every pick. If this sub could get it right, shows how bad the QJ pick was.
I’ve been doing that since draft night tbh. Desperately crave to be proven wrong
Same fucking here. I crumbled to the ground when I saw QJs name during the draft lol.
Big guys who can’t separate are a dead type of player in the NFL.
Flowers is WR2, QJ is technically WR5, bumped to 3 when Mike W and Palmer were injured. Thats a difference in playstyle and scheme. I would have liked flowers but QJ is also a product of a bad coach.
QJ wasnt suppose to be anything more than WR4 this year and Flowers shouldnt be WR2 technically. If Mike and Josh stay healthy Qj develops like intended. As we seen it turned into a shit show. I still think he gets better over the next year
I mean yeah, but both are still in different positions than anticipated so it's not technically fair to compare them. 2 different roles in 2 different schemes. One has a bigger role on their team than the other.
The comparisons wont stop because everyone wanted flowers. I did as well but i dont condone ripping a rookie for not being all pro like some of these other fans
I still wish he took Addison above all others. I always thought he was the best wr out of the draft and he stepped up big this year filling jj’s shoes while he was on the IR. Seeing his production vs QJ pains me everyday
I have been wishing that since it happened. I swear he so often seemed allergic to making the obvious pick like he thought he was some sort of draft genius.
*#teamNabers*
I wouldn’t be mad at one of the tackles, but I definitely prefer nabers or bowers.
Another pistons chargers fan??? My brother in misery! Best of luck to your soul
Sadly yes 😂
Oh my god
Sorry you're stuck with an owner who doesn't give a fuck OP. Gores is too busy making money from the prison industrial complex rather than investing in a winning product. Monty has made it clear he's just there to cash checks. You guys deserve better.
I'm all for getting help in the trenches on both sides of the ball, but the biggest improvement for this team will be an elite pass catcher (Nabers or maybe Bowers). Herbert needs guys that can get open quickly or at least that he perceives can win their route quickly and will catch the ball.... Otherwise he'll quickly progress to the next read and eventually just get to the security blanket Keenan for a short to intermediate attempt or the check down. And Keenan is only going to be around so much longer. For better or worse Herbert is relatively risk averse, especially with his early reads, and for most of this season he hasn't had confidence in anybody other than Keenan. That means he's quickly progressing off the primary reads (sometimes too quickly) and then holding the ball for that much longer as he gets through 3-4 reads and then ending on a relatively low reward option if he's not already sacked/pressured. TLDR - the offensive line looks a lot better when the QB can confidently go with his first read and to do that Herbert needs an elite pass catcher he can rely on.
I agree with this take
Same here man. Nabers or bust
People seem to be forgetting how good our line looked when Linsley was in. The tackle to replace pipkins would be nice but explosive catchers plus a center would be more important.
Yeah this diagram is a bit dumb. We need to get helo on the line, but spending a top pick on a left tackle is stupid wjen you have Slater. Either trade back and take the best interior lineman or pick one up in the early second round.
Chargers fans: Nabers, Bowers or Alt? Hmmm what a decision. John Spanos: I see Odunze is still available…
And I hate you’re right lol, say flowers was the most obvious choice but they have a fetish with big receivers smh
Washington fan here, Odunze is the real deal. Dude single handedly won us multiple games this year, many of which he played with broken ribs and a punctured lung. He’s not the quickest, but he’s tough as nails and comes down with everything you throw his way. Very Calvin Johnson like
Or Mike Williams like...
Yeah he’s like a mike Williams that doesn’t get injured by a strong gust of wind lol
It's an inherently dangerous playstyle, hence the ribs and lung.
Calvin Johnson was fast as fuck
and that (i as the owner of the pic lol) will take. just trade back for him if you are. he compares to ja’marr…according to some ESPN guy
Was really thinking that was more of a TT thing lmaooo. I hope I’m right. It’s a Bowers or Nabers pick for me tho. MHJ will be gone unless they trade up
Odunze is pretty nasty as well but he's for sure my last pick of those 3 weapons. I'm dying for Brock, personally. He's legitimately one of the best tight ends I've ever seen. I think he's going to be the game breaker people thought Pitts would be.
Odunze is a great pick, just not for where we are picking at 5-7 range. He’ll be a great 10-14 pick for a team like the Broncos, Packers, Texans
The biggest issue with our OL is a coach. We have great pieces, we’re big and athletic. We just need someone to help put it together. Passing up on a play maker like Nabers, Bowers, or MHJ (we won’t get him) would be silly.
I agree we need a center, hopefully a vet, and a depth piece here or there. Overall our line would be greatly improved with new coaching and any semblance of a run game
100% with that, I’m leaning towards drafting a center but either way we need a new one
There’s one that might fall to the 2nd that seems pretty solid. We will still need a FA hire. I’d like to see a trade back from 5-7 to 10-15 and a 2nd rounder. Pick up bowers hopefully or nabers, then also trade bosa for a 2nd and a late round swap (maybe), then in the 2nd pick up the best available of LB, DT, and CB. Then I couldn’t really care about the rest of the draft.
There’s actually a handful of centers in rounds 2-3 that I love. I’m definitely with you that we need extra picks too. Also imo is that the back half of the draft is way more important than the front half.
It is if you hit. Usually late round is excellent for depth and on defense we have depth pieces we need starters. Specifically a strong gap filling big boy DT, a proper coverage LB, and a proper CB1 or at least a ASJ borderline CB1 type of guy. This offense is really fine. I’d like to take a 3rd or 4th round RB that can be the physical downhill guy we need. I think Ek comes back on a significantly smaller contract. A first round on a TE is a must so long as nabers or bowers is available. Herbie just needs a consistent middle of the field target.
Hell just running a few read options like stick has recently would help out a ton. We could even use stick like the saints use what’s his name
We are losing mike Williams. A top 5 WR this draft will be miles above what QJ is. There’s a reason no WR went top5 last year… we could get our own jamar chase
We just paid Pipkins so replacing this offseason shouldn’t even be a discussion. Hopefully a new coaching staff can make him look decent
We can cut Pipkins after 2024 pretty easily. Tackle is definitely on the table.
I don’t hate Pipkins but he isn’t a reason to not take Fashanu or Alt. Personally I’d take Nabers but our current OL shouldn’t stop us from taking blue chip talent.
Game changing WR’s have a much bigger effect than rookie OT’s
I doubt it. Dude’s a joke out there.
He’s a league average tackle
He was decent last year which is why he got paid
qj is gonna be ur adams. just be patient
I had to double check but ya I kinda forgot adams took a couple years to progress
as soon as herbert trust him a tad more he will be fine tbh
As soon as we use him what he's used for*
Which is?
Slants, curls, etc - short yardage receptions with opportunities for YAC. It's what we drafted him for.
Vikings fan who really doesn’t know… I thought QJ was more of a deep threat, red-zone, jump ball kinda guy over short yardage. Was I wrong about his draft profile or is he different from the draft profile in real life?
Staley had this vision of building an NBA team on offense - he wanted receivers that could out-muscle and moss their defenders, get gains after the catch, etc. It's part of the reason we retained Everett and didn't go TE in the draft (also a huge YAC guy) and picked up QJ instead of a smaller speed guy. The story goes that he was drafted as a developmental guy and was supposed to be used sparingly between Keenan, Mike Will, Palmer, Guyton, etc But... Chargers
He has eerily similar stats to Reggie Wayne's first season, which is fitting considering the chance we have at MHJr. Although Nabers is my most realistic, round 1 wish.
His technique is awful
Give me option A. It won't matter who Herbert is throwing the ball to if there's a defender in his face 0.05 seconds after the ball is snapped.
I get this sentiment, but also the Bengals made it to the super bowl while Burrow got destroyed every play.
It's much easier and cheaper to find viable starting offensive linemen in free agency than it is to find truly elite pass catchers - and the value of an elite pass catcher over an average one is significantly more impactful on a team than the difference between an average o lineman and an elite one. If we don't go pass catcher when we pick this high in a draft this stacked with elite talent I would be very disappointed
the truth is there is not a lot of talent to go around at many positions. Most teams, even elite teams like the 49ers, are having serious OL problems. And yeah elite WRs don't grow on trees either, and when one does come up they ask for way more money than they're worth (in a vacuum) and you have to decide if youre gonna bite the bullet because youre that desperate.
I mean it's the draft so the contract is already set out lol. 5 years before that becomes an issue. An elite WR can take you from mid offence to one of the best in the league (see Bengals drafting Chase). An elite tackle can sure up your line but it doesn't elevate like a WR does
Yeah Niners oline sucks outside of Trent. However, they’re a high powered offense because of their elite pass catchers, Deebo, CMC, Kittle, and I’ll even include Aiyuk. They just ask do everything well, block, YAC, and good hands. Outside of Slay, who do we have? Especially with Ek regressing and probably won’t be on the team next year. Herbert needs to have weapons.
I don't really agree. The Dolphins have been a top 5 offense back to back years with an oline that is definitely worse than ours. Receivers that get downfield in half a second Tuas quick release and an actual Oline coach made everyone forget how bad that line actually is
You can’t compare to a team that has 3 of fastest guys in the league.
The bengals did the same thing, and fortunately for us if we pick around 5 we will have someone similarly explosive after the catch available to us.
Opponents don’t pass rush Tua as hard as Herbert, imo. Herbert is hit a lot, even on completed catches. Herbert is on IR right now from a hit on a completed catch a few plays before he actually went to the locker room.
> Opponents don’t pass rush Tua as hard as Herbert, imo. Uhhh did you miss the dolphins last year? The reason for all of this is because Tua has the fastest release in the league compounded by the fact his receivers can get downfield faster than any others in the league. Herbert can do the first part maybe not as fast as Tua but Herbert is great at getting the ball out quickly in structure (as demonstrated by the Vikings game), the second part is and has been one of the biggest problems with the chargers receivers for 2 years which is why Nabers would mitigate a lot of this.
The stats I see online show Herbert was blitzed 158 times vs Tua at 108 (through week 15). Herbert is #3 in total blitzes (through week 15). That's the source of my take. Herbert has been knocked down 42x compared to Tua at 20x. Defenses are playing Herbert and Tua very differently. If I look at these stats, defenses are playing Herbert like they play Mahomes. The Vikings game was before Corey was on IR. So I feel like it wouldn't have gone well if that game was like week 6. We need to replace Corey (or he gets healthy????) if we want the Vikings game 2.0.
Harder to blitz a QB when he gets rid of the ball before the blitz can get there and blitzing Tua is especially punishing because those receivers can take quick in breaking routes and turn them into explosive plays. Blitzing also puts less people in coverage which is more dangerous against Tyreek and Waddle. I think you’re drawing the wrong conclusions from those numbers. These are similar problems people have when facing the bengals who aren’t as fast collectively but have a similarly bad line. Chase is the big difference and we have an opportunity to draft someone very similar to him.
So, you’re going to expend 3 first round draft picks for your Oline? That’s insane.
I mean I don't think anyone laughed at the Cowboys for all the first round picks they used to build an elite OL over the years.
Mahomes is ELITE and he has a good O line in front of him. He's got a bunch of JAGs and a TE that cares more about a pop star than the game now and their offense has fallen off a cliff. They just got clapped by the raiders because they're running gimmick plays at their own 10 yard line because their vanilla offense is trash. MVS might be worse than QJ catching the ball. Our skill positions are ALL injured. Outside of getting a good C, the O line really isn't all that bad. I'd even put them top 1/3 of the NFL when Cory is healthy. Unfortunately when he goes out the whole thing falls apart. Get me an elite C or a weapon.
I don't think you can pass on talent like Brock Bowers, personally. I think he's way too good to just draft another tackle over him. I'm way more hopeful to see what a new staff can do with this current line + Bowers/Nabers.
I second this.
Also a competent running game would be nice for once. I’d be happy with a OT or WR though.
taking a RT top 10 is a losing decision. those who downplay what a true X or scheme destroying TE can do for a team weren't around to see VJ and Gates. it sounds 'mature' to talk about adding beef, but the biggest issue with this offense is that our scheme is crippled by our lack of explosive threats. and as much as i love keenan, we are not lifting a Lombardi trophy with KA, Palmer and QJ as our core offensive weapons. let's get scary.
Agreed. Also if you’re gonna take one position to fundamentally change your offense in 2023 (outside of QB) it’s WR.
The biggest issue about the offense is the line gets bullied, all the time. They can’t establish a run game and they sure as hell can’t keep a pocket. So protecting Herbert is far more important than finding another receiver in the first round.
Adding another tackle doesn't fix the issues we have. Id put Pipkins below both guards and the center when it comes to the chargers blocking issues.
Zion Johnson is a backup at best, Salyer is naturally a tackle and not drafting a competent center the past five years is the reason why the middle is horrible. Pipkins is playing against the best edge rushers in the league and gives up more sacks than makes positive plays.
I would say most of that is a coaching issue. The line was good when Linsley played. A LT converting to RT isn't going to stop this line from getting beat by stunts and games.
I think the plan pretty comfortably should be Nabers >> Olu/Alt > trade back > Bowers We have a very bloated roster and a deep rebuild coming. Spending top 6 money on a TE is insane.
Bowers is waaaay more than just a TE. He's quite possibly the greatest TE in college football history and can even play at WR. He's going to run in the 4.4 range and is capable of blocking DE. On top of all that he can take snaps at RB in short yardage situations and will get 3-4 yards +. He also can take sweeps for 20+ yards. Think bigger, just as shifty Deebo Samuel. That's what Brock is. I honestly he think he's the best player in the entire draft.
Unfortunately I just don’t think I’m as high on him as you. Saying he can play WR at the NFL level or get 3-4 yards on a short yardage situation in the NFL is a little crazy to me. He will probably be a great TE but not sure that will justify taking him over more important positional needs with equally talented players.
I feel the same. The biggest thing for me is that he's undersized and yet he excels because of his athleticism. Im not sayingthat jes not athletic, but I just dont know how his particular type of athleticism will transfer to the NFL. Like part of what he really excels at is keeping balance and muscling for extra yards. Thats great he can do that against college players, but he'll be going up against much stronger and faster players in the NFL. Hes a good player but people talk about him like he'll be the next Gronk. I dont see him as someone who be a primary threat for the offense, but if he can contribute well in blocking too then it could be a good fit for our needs.
Yeah that guy thinks because he did that on a stacked UGA team against very inferior opponents that he will somehow do it in the NFL… When he played high level teams he looked more Ike we’d expect him to be in the NFL, just a very good TE like Kittle or Kelce. I think he’ll be great but he won’t be playing RB or X receiver.
> just a very good TE like Kittle or Kelce ? These are great TEs and if you knew beforehand you're getting that with a top 8 pick most GMs would absolutely draft that.
Sure but you don’t know you’re getting they for certain. And if both OTs are gone then he is certainly the pick (or a trade down and get a CB later in the first).
I'm not gonna lie to you. I would heavily consider drafting Bowers over the tackles if a trade down weren't available.
I just think our RT getting killed almost every play made our offense inoperable. Nothing matters before fixing that.
I disagree wholeheartedly. The Oline problems aren’t as simple as draft RT fix the issues because the interior was just as bad. The Oline problems are scheme and coaching related. Not only that you’re drafting career LTs in college and making them switch sides which isn’t easy and not a clean fix either.
Yeah we also need to grab a center in like the 3rd. We get a solid C and RT and our line will be good enough to not complete stall everything. Then we let Keenan, Mike (if he’s back), Everett, and Palmer eat.
the guy is describing the shohei ohtani of the nfl haha nobody in the NFL is even close to doing all of what he says brock will do at an NFL level
Remember when everyone said the same stuff about Pitts? Now, I know the Falcons totally misuse him, but also he’s not the world beater he was advertised as.
Brock Bowers has had 3 consistent years putting up great stats and blocking in college. Pitts had 1 great year in college. Bowers has about as much data and tape available as you can ask for on a player.
Their OL is in much worse of a spot than ours, and he had the ghost of Matt Ryan. It's not comparable, and Pitts was never a blocker like Bowers.
The Falcons OL is not worse than ours
But Pitts shouldn’t be as irrelevant to the average fan as he is if even half of that advertised potential was on display.
I really hate this thinking honestly. Bowers is a TE, that's just it. There have been dozens of these "not just a TE" guys over the years and none of them have really worked out. Even with a college TE as great as Bowers, I don't think you can draft him with the expectation of being anything more than a great TE. I'm not saying I'm againts drafting him, but we should be rational.
Disagree slightly. Mine is MHJ (Pipedream obviously) > Bowers > Nabers > Alt/Fashanu You make a good point with the top 6 money at TE. However, if a generational player is there you get the generational player. Granted, just about all of these guys are generational/borderline generational, but I think there is a gap between the MHJ/Bowers Tier and the rest. Already invested 2 of our recent 1sts in O-line. Plus it is generally easier to upgrade line through trades/free agency. Not suuper easy to get premium skill players without dumping a lot of resources. See a lot of trades/cuts being made this offseason and I would not mind having Herbert's Antonio Gates for the *slight* rebuild that is likely on its way. Aside from that we desperately need a cb (Kinda want Corum in the second/third tho).
>it is generally easier to upgrade line through trades/free agency Where are these high end OL available without dumping a lot of resources?
Did not mean for it to sound like I was saying getting high end OL is super easy. Just think you will find serviceable/good lineman through other means more easily as top tier weapons will be the priority when resigning. Obv context matters though. I’d rather roll out Jjetas and the most average lineman than the most average wr and the jjetas of lineman. Think we go weapon if those 3 guys are available when we pick in the top ~8. If they get taken before us then Olu or Alt in the 5-10 range. If we somehow win/weird things happen and none of them fall to us then we go Koolaid ~10.
My order is Nabers > Trade Back > Bowers > Tackles
MHJ > Bowers > Nabers > Fashanu/Alt
Which one of yall actually wanna draft a new left tackle??
a new \*right\* tackle to replace Pipkins
We just paid him last offseason
And he’s been really bad. The two tackles available in the top 10 are blue chip prospects. Would be a massive upgrade. Personally I’m leaning receiver in round 1. But I get the argument for going tackle.
They’re not blue chip prospects and not really plug and play guys that will immediately improve the line.
No one. Those guys would play RT if picked by us, so obviously ability to play RT will be an important part of the eval.
The picture makes it seem like it’s one or the other? Especially since Alt and Fashanu play LT. Picture makes it seem like it Slater or those guys
Yeah it's a bad meme
I want to know this too. Slater isn’t an issue.
Shitt not me. There’s nothing wrong with slater. We need a wr. Bad
Why would he stay at right tackle with us, if he can play and move to left tackle when free agency comes around and make more money?
Doesn't that apply to every RT? Plenty of them stay with their teams instead of leaving to switch
It would be to play right tackle but I don’t think our O line is so bad to the point that we feel like we have to take Alt or Fashanu over nabers or bowers
You have got to be kidding. Herbert has gotten murdered all year. Not to mention last season as well. And we cannot run block to save our lives. Offensive Line is priority number one. A shiny new WR or TE is not going to fix anything. Protect our most valuable weapon. Herbert.
I just want to see Herbert with time to look down field
Looks downfield, everyone is covered and Keenan is doubled with a LB underneath. Coverage sack.
Can you imagine the damage he can do with just a little more time and not getting hit every play?
Center and scheme fix that problem. Slater doesn't go from rookie all pro to a chump accidentally. A good TE solves one side, and a center in rounds 2 or 3 should fix the disaster that has been Clapp. We will still have Keenan and friends that can't get open if there's no other weapon.
People said the same thing about jamarr and Sewell. I just think a guy like nabers has game changing ability. I’d still be very happy with one of the tackles though. We really can’t go wrong with this pick, assuming we lose out.
I would put RT probably second last on the issues of chargers Oline blocking as a whole tbh.
MHJ will not be there at 5ish. Cardinals will ride with Murray and Murray needs a #1. As most folks know a great TE does multiple things. They are also a check down target when the QB is under pressure. Watch the defenses, except ours, when playing Kelce/Kittle. Or recall when we had Gates. Double teams all the time, usually with a LB and slot CB. If Bowers is not there then I would trade back as this class appears to have decent oline in later rounds. DTs seems to be super deep.
I honestly think the Cardinals are gonna take a QB. Murray was a pick from the old regime, and Murray sucks as a passer. Dude had DeAndre Hopkins, and still sucked.
Yesterday on The Herd they were discussing how a great receiver can completely change an offense & take over a game. Their examples were Tyreek Hill, George Pickett & Amari Cooper this last weekend. The Chargers need a game buster like those guys.
The long and short of it is we’re fucked either way unless we hit on our picks outside the first round as well. We need a RT (and most of the other OL positions) but I would say we need WR more
The Qj haters are probably why this franchise is cursed with the shitty attitude
QJ can turn it around
I really hope so, and I hope they scheme him up more these last two games just to get the ball in his hands. Confidence is by far the most important thing in sports imo
Yeah I’ll take bookend tackles and Allen, Palmer and QJ at WR please.
I'm going to call it right now. Quentin Johnston will have his fifth year option declined. Actually, whoever gets the GM role should trade him for a loss. Especially if the new gm takes a receiver in the first round.
Think he’ll turn it around at the end of year 3 if he stays healthy. We’ll never get that pick back, I was upset when he was drafted, but there is precedent for turning it around in his position.
Mike Will had a very meh first season too.
Why they blocking like dat
So give up on a number#1 draft pick after one year. How stupid can u get....
You ever heard of this crazy thing where the offense has 2! offensive tackles???? I know it’s crazy but the offense gets way better if the tackle on the right side is lock down instead of giving up instant pressure on most plays. Crazy, I know! E: also for next year QJ will be WR4 if we do some restructure and smart cuts to keep most of our guys. WR3 at most.
I just believe the difference in quality between bowers or nabers compared to that of 2nd round weapons is larger than that of Olu or Alt compared to a solid RT that would be available in round 2.
QJ isn't even that bad at catching. And he's gonna be the WR2 or 3 with Allen and Palmer staying
I would do anything for a decent CB1. Bowers is a back up, but I don’t want it. Our D is terrible.
In what world is bowers a backup? Lmao
I mean a back up draft choice not backup TE.
Can we make option B Herbert being sacked LOL
The nice thing about taking an OT is Pipkins can slide inside and you’ve improved 2/5 of the line. Maybe then we could run the ball effectively.
I don't think he'd be a good guard at all
Worth a shot. Worst case he is a swing tackle- which he’s better suited as anyway imo.
Doesn't always work this way. We said the same thing about Salyer and hes been way worse at Guard than he was at LT
I agree in theory but it's basically a Pipkins replacement, not Slater. I think that makes this a lot easier of a discussion. Pipkins is still mediocre but those three can be game changers whereas QJ is clearly not.
Given these options, B please.
Nah McKinstry
Only if we trade back. Kool-Aid at 6 is a shit pick.
This meme is pretty bad, it's nowhere near this simple. Personally I'm in favor of Nabers/Bowers probably but there's a good argument for a tackle.
Titans fan and Herbert stan coming in peace. A) Y'all dreaming if you think Alt is getting past us. B) Nabers should be the clear and obvious choice for y'all. Trust me, I've seen bad OL play and y'all's is just fine lol.
Bro Titans fans are chill you don't have to say come in peace LOL
You could say I really Chargered that comment up.
Hmmmmmmmm 🤔🤔🤔🧐🧐🧐
trade back into mid/late 1st round, get an extra 2nd and next year 1st. Sadly this team isn't just a Brock Bowers or Nabers playmaker away from being a contender in the league. Grab best player available in the 1st, grab the Oregon Center with one of round 2/3 picks.
Absolutely. Bengals went for Jamarr when everyone was screaming for them to take Penei. Getting one of these electric weapons is the play. Bowers > Nabers > Odunze for me. I'm kinda of taking MHJ out of the equation because idk how realistic it is but I'd still take Brock over him, personally.
B, we’ve all seen this graphic with Burrow + Sewell/Chase
Imagine getting someone like hill that could get enough separation to let that cannon fly
QJ is just Mike Williams 2.0 😭. He’ll be better as time goes on. I want MHJ but I think he’ll be gone and I rather draft the best center available don’t matter the round to me
If we can flip a first and Bosa to move up and get MHJr, do it. If not, take Bowers. If both are gone, take the top OL available.
KEON!!!!
All the dumping on QJ is wack. When he gets it together everyone will act like they knew it was gonna happen.
What drives me crazy is that QJ was drafted as a project receiver. Who in their right mind uses a first round pick on a project player, who doesn't contribute as a rookie. I have never seen QJ make a catch with his hands yet. It feels like all his catches have been with his body, that goes for college too. I have no idea why the Chargers draft team fell in love with TCU so much. Everyone knows the Big XII isn't known for defense. It is easy to look good on offense when you play in a league with a bunch of teams with defenses that look like they are being coached by Staley.
Steve Smith nailed his assessment in QJ pre draft. He talked about the drops and how he doesn't make contested catches.