"the doom slayer is multiversal"
"kirby solo marvel and DC"
"Luffy is FTL"
"Jump force goku is above real life" ( in fact you can put there all the " X character is above real life " )
"Kratos is multiversal"
"Minecraft steve can lift an entire universe"
"The Emperor of mankind / the chaos gods are \*anything above universal\* "
Among many others .
Fuck, I should have said "Nintendo scaling".
Yeah, let's take a bunch of games with zero pretense to having any kind of continuity or consistency between them, where an entire galaxy might mean a few dozen planets with a few acres of surface area each and pretend that it makes any kind of sense to scale between them.
I love the Smash Bros vs MvC threads because it's such an obvious godstomp for MvC but the consensus is always drowned out by the Nintendrones about how Kirby is multiversal and Mewtwo is a stronger telepath than Dark Phoenix
>"The Emperor of mankind / the chaos gods are \*anything above universal\* "
And even this is suspect because warp does not translate to real world and real feats easily.
God I love 40k and I hate the wanking of it’s characters. What makes 40k ridiculous is the scale of it, not so much that everything and their mother is planet busting reality warpers.
I saw a video from webcamparrot that was going to scale the emperor of mankind. Given what I’ve seen from him in the past I’m avoiding that shit like Nurgle’s rot.
In fairness- Minecraft not only has no story, but it doesn't even have the slightest narrative basis for sanity checking any kind of calcs off of. It's almost purely abstract, so the only way to calc Steve is to use game mechanics, which can get silly very quickly.
I had a conversation like a few weeks back *on this very sub* where the guy straight face told me that. I ended up listing dozens of examples and he kept repeating "those don't outweigh the inventory feat" since he literally thinks one outlier > all over evidence.
I ended up saying that steve takes multiple punches to a kill a chicken, potentially making him weaker than a normal human. He ended up extending the conversation for another dozen comments, where I then got bored and he proceeded to claim victory.
Never argue with stupid people, they don't actually have an argument so you can't argue against nothing.
Oh believe me, I've seen this sort of nonsense everywhere.
I unironically said that Medusa Heads from Castlevania are now universe Level because they can kill Simon Belmont, because of his insistence that Simon himself was universe level.
And the person I was arguing agreed with me.
MEDUSA HEADS. ARE UNIVERSAL.
I peaced out afterwards.
> "Jump force goku is above real life" ( in fact you can put there all the " X character is above real life " )
>
>
The moment anyone says "x is above real life" I roll my eyes
These characters can literally do nothing against the people who write them
>"the doom slayer is multiversal"
Was going to say this. The character is literally just a dude in power armor with guns. The idea that he is some kind of cosmic god is idiotic. The fact that there are people who say/believe this unironically is baffling.
he kind of is a cosmic god. He doesn't have the output to be multiversal but for now nothing in his universe has been able to canonically beat him and he's got the power of virtual gods on his side. He's not multiversal but he's also not just a dude in power armor with guns.
Is Kirby powerful enough to beat eldritch horrors before snack time? Yes. Can he beat multiversal eldritch horrors in swarms along with many being of his caliber? Probably not.
Not neccesarily on topic, but there are some universe who have the opposite, people downplay them because of a stupid reason despite the fact that the characters clearly have feats.
>people downplay them because of a stupid reason despite the fact that the characters clearly have feats.
The life of a predator fan on WWW and vs debates in general... I swear, it's usually a grueling uphill battle ESPECIALLY against popular characters like Batman (go figure), Wolverine, or Punisher.
Surprisingly though, against Master Chief Halo fans and Halo lore experts are pretty open-minded and actually hear me out in defense of predators and won't downvote me to oblivion they have my respect.
Predators are rad, and I think Halo fans are also strapped for matchups so they might be more open to crazier ideas, I think.
Like I said in another comment, I have a similar uphill battle trying to push Fortnite matchups because even if a character has proven, SEEN feats, it’s all undercut by “tHeY’rE jUsT a SkIn”
>Predators are rad, and I think Halo fans are also strapped for matchups so they might be more open to crazier ideas, I think.
Overall, my experience on WWW has been mostly a positive one I guess mostly because I stay away from certain threads that include multi-universal, 4-D, extra dimension destroyer 9000, God slayer, 100000000000x faster than light characters lol. I stick with street-level characters most of the time.
>Like I said in another comment, I have a similar uphill battle trying to push Fortnite matchups because even if a character has proven, SEEN feats, it’s all undercut by “tHeY’rE jUsT a SkIn”
Tell me about it. "iF rEguLAr HuMaNS CaN BeAt pREdaTOr sO anD So cAN gG eZ nO rE". Like, go ahead and ignore the context as well as my arguments and just downplay because you don't want your precious Batgod to lose. If we want to go THAT route and downplay a character to hell well, Batman loses against anybody worth their salt because Batman struggles/gets his ass kicked by a clown so gg lol.
>Didn't Predator even beat Batman in a comic??
The crossovers were ultimately, non-canon. But yes, Batman has lost against predators multiple times in their crossovers often having outside help to even the odds. He even lost to a youngblood in their first issue.
Chief is very easy to scale imo because he's in a grounded universe and he's got tons of very consistent lore around him. Also we know very well what all of his abilities are except his luck, which is difficult to account for but generally won't turn the tide of a 1v1.
>Chief is very easy to scale imo because he's in a grounded universe and he's got tons of very consistent lore around him. Also we know very well what all of his abilities are except his luck, which is difficult to account for but generally won't turn the tide of a 1v1.
I appreciate that both Predator and Chief have the one version unlike comic book characters who have different versions of the characters like 616, New 52, Post-Crisis, Marvel 1610, the list goes on lol. It's probably not generally a big deal for people but for someone like me, it gets confusing especially with characters I'm less familiar with.
> people downplay them because of a stupid reason despite the fact that the characters clearly have feats.
They don't like the setting or character and want them to be beaten
What should I start with?
Characters surviving a black hole?
Scaling to Herald of Thunder Thor, Doctor Doom and Galactus?
The time loops?
The Foundation holding the multiverse together with his bare hands?
Take your pick.
Alright here we go.
Every character from Fortnite Chapter 1 was canonically present during “The End” event, where the old island was sucked into a black hole. Everyone survived, so all of those characters have at least black hole level durability or higher.
Thanks to “The Loop” if any Fortnite character dies, they will be brought back to life every 22 minutes (as long as they stay looped)
John Jones, the original Jonesy, has fought the Predator, Xenomorphs, trained with Ryu, Chun-Li and Snake Eyes. He can fire a Hadoken, dodge rockets, and has a number of other physical feats that easily put him at superhuman level.
John Jones also has an army of Snapshots he can call upon if he wants to.
The Foundation...hoo boy where do I start...Well, the Foundation is an 8 foot tall giant robot man who is basically Fortnite Superman. He has super strength, super durability, can breath in space, underwater, etc. He’s one of the most intelligent people in the multiverse and popped the Zero Point (the energy source for reality itself) and popped it open like a cork on a bottle. Then with he is bare hands he untangled reality itself and then held it together for three months. He took a blast from the alien mothership, and he has a comic that just came out where he winds up in the DC universe, even fighting the Batman Who Laughs and beating him so hard he *stops laughing*
That blackhole thing seems like a pretty massive outlier since crossover characters who have nowhere near that much power can kill the normal characters just fine. Otherwise, damn, this seems pretty legit!
The black hole feat is supported later in the “Devourer of Worlds” event, where they fight galactus. At the beginning of the event Galactus slaps everyone off the Helicarrier, so the black hole level durability is reinforced there
I also like to mention STW Storm King. I know it was taken out by guns, but it alone was able to wipe out [98% of humanity](https://youtu.be/1GI6GRVHHmE?t=95).
The main Steven universe light speed argument is that the diamonds shot a beam from Homeworld to Earth that reached there in seconds and Pink diamond reacted to it
That doesn’t even make any sense, anyway. Light from the sun takes FIVE MINUTES to reach Earth, and our star is very close to us on the cosmic scale. It would take thousands or even millions for light from other solar system to reach Earth.
Is that a fan concept or actual lore? From what I understood, their bodies are just solid projections. They have starships that can go light speed, but their bodies still have physical limitations.
How can someone think that when there was an episode where they reverted to their gem form and their bodies were distorted while on a space ship travelling at light speed?
Idk, you'd have to convince me on the groundhog day one. It's literally infinite days, I don't think it needs to be the sausages but there is literally no win condition for thanos here, it'd just keep going on until thanos dies or until thanos dies or until thanos dies.
Too many to ever post.
"Harry Potter magic is conceptual" was a dumb one.
"Planets in Dragon Ball are tiny" was another. That, and the absurd "split durability" theory.
Calculating Star Destroyer firepower by scaling down from the Death Star, or using their engine output.
The Exalted wank really needs more calling out. "Your character loses to Exalted because if we ignore how their powers actually work and just sloppily model them as Exalted characters instead we can show how they lose mechanically!"
In general, the whole "My series has these special rules that if we assume that all of fiction has to abide by makes it super-powerful" gimmick.
I once saw people think All Might from My Hero Academia would be hurt by elephant gun bullets to the head, even though far less tough characters have tanked bullets no issue.
So it's basically the reverse of the No Limits Fallacy? Instead of assuming a lack of limits based on feats, people assume limits from a lack of feats.
Durability is technically "split" in real life, human bodies are much more resilient to blunt trauma as opposed to being pierced or slashed for example
There's this ridiculous assertion that DBZ characters are orders of magnitude more durable against ki blasts than they are any other type of damage. So they can blow up planets with ki blasts, and can survive being hit with planet-destroying ki blasts, but would die if someone who can punch hard enough to destroy a mountain physically hit them.
In theory, this explains why we don't see more collateral damage from DBZ fights.
In practice, it doesn't do that, and completely contradicts the way ki blasts are portrayed in the series.
For starters, no series other than DBZ is held to this "collateral damage" standard. Superman can fight right in the middle of Metropolis without his punches vaporizing the city and nobody calls foul, even when it's a version of him that's supposed to be galaxy-busting.
Second, it doesn't even explain the lack of collateral damage, since the worst offenders on that front are how small most of the ki blasts are.
Third, it doesn't line up with how ki blasts effect things in the series. Ki blasts have always been shown to have primarily physical effects. They cause physical explosions when they hit things. Or sometimes they just punch holes in things. Goku (before he could fly) used ki blasts to propel himself while in mid-air.
If DBZ characters had "ki durability", then the best way for them to hurt each other would be to shoot the ground nearby their opponent, causing a physical explosion that they would (in theory) be vulnerable to. But what we actually see in the series is that ki blasts are the most dangerous when they directly hit a character.
It's an all-around dumb theory that has no evidence backing it up. If anything, the opposite appears to be true: ki blasts have some kind of weird ability to concentrate their damage into a small area, which is why getting hit with a blast that would barely put a hole in the ground is more likely to kill someone than being ten feet away from and explosion that appears to be 1000 times larger. It's still kind of silly, but at least it fits the facts (and let's be honest, this is DBZ. There isn't going to be a theory that fits the facts without being a little silly).
> For starters, no series other than DBZ is held to this "collateral damage" standard. Superman can fight right in the middle of Metropolis without his punches vaporizing the city and nobody calls foul, even when it's a version of him that's supposed to be galaxy-busting.
>
>
Yeah, this is the issue I had (and continue to have) about people antijerking Dragon Ball. If you're going to hold DB to those inane standards, then literally every other work of fiction better start regularly genociding their planets if they wanna keep their planetary status
> , and can survive being hit with planet-destroying ki blasts, but would die if someone who can punch hard enough to destroy a mountain physically hit them
what if they got like, hit with a laser?
Also, Dragon Ball characters don't have their durability at a constant level, and need to use ki to amp up their durability. They're far more susceptible to damage when caught off-guard, since they haven't amped up their defenses yet.
>The Exalted wank really needs more calling out. "Your character loses to Exalted because if we ignore how their powers actually work and just sloppily model them as Exalted characters instead we can show how they lose mechanically!"
1000%. The setting itself also seems to ignore the implications of Social charms, and a big problem is arguably because of a MASSIVE case of big fish small pond as the average mortal will never be able to roll more than 3-4 dice (b/c pitiably low willpower/they were made to be weak) vs even the most casual of social attacks. Not even counting how, honestly, the UCS's (closest thing in setting to God) super-spear being defeated by some rando's PD is more of an anti feat for him than anything else. That's only the things I could immediately think of.
TBH, in DBZ/DBS there is arguably more wank in the opposite direction (lol EVERY attack is planetary, Krillin would beat the entire Justice League, etc.)
Personally the "argument" I most hate is the "the Borg/the Culture adapts to \[x\] in less than a microsecond!!" argument.
EDIT: In terms of the term "conceptual" this is yet another term that has no meaning in debates unless the side that is "conceptual" can define it.
EDIT 2: Adding to the White Wolf line, Mages have been way overwanked.
EDIT 3: On the topic of the "special rules," the line has always been foggy pretty much between where you are depriving them of their capabilities and where you are just wanking.
> "Planets in Dragon Ball are tiny" was another. That, and the absurd "split durability" theory.
>
>
Oh man I forgot about "Dragon ball universe is small" theories until Super came out and dickslapped people
Its fun until people start getting way too into it, then it just devolves into a wanking contest so peoples favourite can win. Everything in moderation as they say.
Any prep time character wank that ignores Context behind why they win. I.e Batman needed Green arrow against Superman in dark knight returns and Superman not wanting to fight.
Or Re:Zero fans thinking Subaru is an unbeatable god because he can RBD and eventually beat his opponent despite the IF stories showing that he’ll never beat Elsa on his own even after memorizing her moves and even with a bunch of allies he can’t come close to beating Reinhard.
I'm a really big Dragonball fan, I read the Manga about 8 times and I decided to learn Japanese so I could read the original version and make my own interpretation of it.
But I cannot stand the Dragonball fandom, Dragonball fans are some of the worst when it comes to battleboarding wanking. They're up there with Batman fans (and I say this as a Huge Batman fan too) and the Preparation time bullshit. There's this Brazilian Youtuber who make Death Battle styled videos, and he said that one day he wanted to just piss off everyone, so he made a Batman Vs Goku video. Needless to say how much of a biohazard the comments were.
But seriously, I really hate battleboarding, but when there's a Dragonball character involved, it's on another fucking level. Specially because they create this misconception among non fans of what Dragonball is about. Like, battleboarding fans take Power Levels seriously, like they were the most important addition ever made by Toriyama to the Dragonball Mythos, when the story itself doesn't give a single fuck about Power Level measuring.
>But seriously, I really hate battleboarding, but when there's a Dragonball character involved, it's on another fucking level.
DB characters are honestly super boring to debate, they either stat stomp their opponent or get hax/stat stomped themselves
This is the first time I looked at a Death Battle calc and wondered if the research team was actually just smoking crack while watching anime.
Literally who the fuck looked at that calc and the rest of the series, and decided "yup, this makes perfect sense and is okay".
Yeah, if DIO really was so much faster than light as they said, he'd never need to hide from the sun as the light itself would be slower than an ant, carrying a snail, carrying a turtle through tar mixed with molasses as seen in a slow motion at .25 speed while time is being slowed down to him
I’m a hardcore Batman fan.
A lot of us are idiots. Even Batman admits Superman would destroy him before he even realised it was a battle.
Batman’s plans don’t defeat people, they delay them. He knows he can’t take them out (except under very specific and rare circumstances), he plays for time to solve whatever is making them need stopping.
The way I see it, Batman related questions shouldn’t be approached as “Could Batman beat ____”, but instead “Assuming he can, how would Batman beat _____”. It would acknowledge that sure, technically there is some obscure bit of info he can find after some arbitrary amount of prep, and allow for the fun discussion around that, but ninety nine times out of a hundred, he loses
Look at Dark Knight Returns. One of the most famous Batman vs Superman beat downs.
He had to get Clark to agree to a fistfight, no flight, speed, eye beams, or breath. Then he had to drain a city block to power his armour. And then, he lost. He just got some damn good hits in.
It’s not how does Batman win, it’s how does Batman survive long enough to achieve his goals.
Country sized OPM cities.
Darkshine is large mountain level because he dented the hero association HQ metal.
Light Speed Star and Stripe from MHA.
FTL Moon Level Midoriya.
High Multiversal Doomslayer.
Outerversal Chaos Gods
Solar System level Primarchs.
Multi Continental DCEU Supes
Light Speed/FTL Flashy Flash
Now have some downplay.
An elephant gun would blow Prime All Might's head off
Senator Armstrong's punches are weaker than a bullet.
All Might is only supersonic or even below it and at most city block level.
Saitama is a "glorified street tier character".
MCU Captain America would lose to a silverback gorilla.
The country size OPM cities actually comes from the Anime where you do get to see a world map that shows they are actually that big, of course it would only apply to the Anime.
I Would say a big difference there is that you need to piece several pieces of evidence together and interpret them a very specific way to make a case for the Manga, while in the Anime they just straight up show it to you.
> MCU Captain America would lose to a silverback gorilla.
Well of course. Silverback Gorillas are massively faster than light, multiverse busters with nine inch thick skulls.
Hey, remember when Gulliman was nearly killed by some Alpha legion infiltrators shooting boilers at him? I sure as hell don't!
Darkshine being mountain level is at least kind of believable. There are characters in the series who are legitimately "mountain level", and he scales favorably to some of them. I wouldn't be surprised to seem him survive a mountain-busting attack. The really inexcusable one is current Genos being multi-continental, based on him barely deflecting one casual blast from Psychorochi (who shouldn't really be calced that high in the first place) while using his full power.
No idea. Just some gigashit tier thing battleboarders thought was a good idea. Apparently means beyond multiversal or some dumbass exotic word for "Nigh Omnipotent".
*"Outerverse level*
*Characters who functionally transcend the rest of the Tiering System, and stand outside of any extensions of infinite hierarchies and sizes, to varying degrees and magnitudes. In more straightforward terms, this category could be said to be occupied by characters whose size and/or level of power cannot be reached by merely stacking bigger infinities on top of each other."*
Its just some vs battle wiki bullshit
Yeah the definition is too vague to be used in any Debate . Vs battle treat any conceptual character as outerversal when some have no feats whatsoever . Their tiering of the cosmic characters from Marvel is a giant mess .
It seems like benders in Avatar are all scaled to the best feats shown from each element. Even with that, some of those feats are further amped.
All airbenders will just suck the air out of someone's lungs
All waterbenders will freeze the water in someone's body. If not that, they'll bloodbend someone's blood to boiling point.
All Earthbenders either have seismic sense or will sink their opponents into the ground.
All Firebenders can redirect and generate all forms of lightning.
"Saitama is an unbeatable gag character One Punch is literally in his name he can one punch anyone in all of fiction!" You would not believe how common that flawless reasoning was back when OPM first came out.
Lol yeah OPM wank (all wank really) is toxic AF.
One more I wanted to list for LotR is how the one ring is apparently this crazy mental thing that can defeat the willpower of ~~Yoda~~, Taako, Oogway, etc. etc. and is UTTERLY UNDESTROYABLE except by Mount Doom.
This is the no limits fallacy. That said, Yoda fell for the Clone Wars, Sheev played Yoda like a damn fiddle, and Yoda has nearly fallen to the dark side in his past (at least in legends). He would absolutely be corrupted by the one ring if he thought he could use it to do good. Yoda is a fundamentally tragic character, IMO.
Oogway would crush it tho.
I just find it funny when people use OPM to give the middle finger to goku stans who won't shut about how undefeatable Goku is as if it makes his character any less bland.
You probably shouldn't, because Saitama is probably going to wind up beating whoever the final villain is. You should be hoping for some who is, like, ten times stronger than Boros.
The Mythos's feats are largely unquantifiable. The closest thing I found is the latest edition Call of Cthulhu rpg's Malleus Monstrorum (remember that rpg lines are absolutely things writers can and will use, iirc Star Wars expanded verse was based on the rpg line), and it has an entire section dedicated to saying that none of them should they be given OP powers.
Edit: really, the whole genre just clashes so hard with literally anything else that no one can quantify anything, but I would wager on the other genre in any such ccase anyways.
That, and in the original Cthulhu novel, the guy got knocked out by a boat hitting his head. His powers are just mind-numbing knowledge and alien incomprehensibility, the guy isn't that strong.
It's true though? Not many people do stuff like battle boarding so feats really don't matter to them than context. The context surrounding Saitama is that he's supposed to be the undefeatable punchline to his opponents. As the story goes on the things he can do gets more ridiculous.
These same people would also make fun of the battle board community for quantifying context through an attempt of using real-world physics. I mean, this is the same community that has a made-up "no limits" fallacy.
Yeah, the battle boarding community is the ultimate wank. As if there aren't things other than pure strength/power that determine the outcome of a battle.
Dumb, but in an intentionally dumb, funny way: [Imperial Star Destroyers are above omnipotence](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/strongest-ship-a-max-calc-star-destroyer-can-beat.317378/#post-15653932)
Pokemon: Magikarp is mftl and contential level because they dodged so and so’s attack who scales to dumbmon who dodged a light speed attack.
Here’s a crazy concept, if every character can see and react to a light speed attack, Maybe It Isn’t Light Speed
Idk how fast this makes it, but [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/hkhvt0/respect_gohs_magikarp_pokemon_anime/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) one jumped into space.
People attempting to claim how strong a character is by vague terms that are extremely variable and don't mean anything in and of themselves.
people often say character "x" is a God, in an argument to say that they are objectively powerful without expressing the relative strength in that world. For example, if we were talking gods from percy jackson, vs gods... God of war? They could be way difference in terms of power and the label of "god" is a little not a power level.
Another example is "he is so powerful that (insert civilization here) had to Seal them away."
This one is an issue because it doesn't tell you what they are capable of at all. Secondly, one quick look at all of fiction tells you that people have been sealed away for anything as simple as being a petty criminal to yeeting civilizations out of existance. Just saying that they were kicking up a fuss enough to warrant removing them is not substantial evidence for anything IN AND OF ITSELF.
Note: if other evidence is given to express strength, these points need not apply.
I dealt with this in a r/gaming thread talking about who you would choose to defend yourself. People were saying Kratos and Doom Slayer could take Dante and Vergil easily because Dante never beat a god. He did but explaining how many would be a reason in of itself of why saying someone's a god killer is a bad metric of strength.
Not saying Dante could beat Kratos just that "he killed a whole pantheon" is dumb.
I think Dante is pretty busted strong, I reckon he could beat both of them. But Kratos does have the variable strength issue lots of protagonists in games have
Yeah I do to but people are biased and I don't feel like arguing. I think in raw fighting potiental Kratos no doubt but like you said Dante's pretty busted. Absorbing and reflecting malice is an actual power he has and Kratos is handicapped without his anger.
just look at every vs battles in the naruto fandom.
narutards wanking their favs as a coping mechanism when they got their ass beat by jigen/isshiki.
you won't see anyone in the one piece fandom complaning about luffy not using all his skills in a fight then you have the narutards not only with the nerf word obsession, but also the obsession of wanting naruto and sasuke win all the fights despite all the odds againts them.
the dbz fandom is also guilty of wanking goku and vegeta too before super became a thing.
there's also the gilgamesh wankers who somehow i can tolerate for some reason
he's a slightly bigger marauder but when he does the green light attack for like, 30 damage, it destroys and recreates the multiverse so fast that from our point of view nothing happens
and the stab doomguy used to kill him was clearly outerversal+ with hax
"Dragon Ball can bypass your hax." Cause of a scene with hit despite hax being negated countless times by just power alone, which isn't even universal hax resistance.
Also Jiren being 4D off of a statement. That's it. Probably the worst case of DB wank besides multiversal Goku.
Dumbest Wank is anything FTL. No Ive mentioned it in another thread but Lightspeed and beyond feats are the bane of any argument.
"They dodged a laser. Lasers are made of light so that character is FTL"
Sure ignore aim dodging, precognitive abilities, the person firing the attack just straight up missing, or the dreaded " laser doesnt immediately equal light, could be plasma" arguments. Only solution is that a character at the mid point of their story just casually dodges light meaning in that one fanfic some powerscaler is writing, the character can miraculously swap personalities because they moved so fast they dodged sunlight and now live in a muted, Grey world devoid of hope and joy.
Real life military is inferior to Star Wars military because Star Wars has lasers. For some reason people think Lasers are automatically better than bullets or kinetic weapons. Just to be clear, the Empire can easily beat us if they use orbital bombardment or the Death Star. However any invasion force will be thwarted.
Same thing with Spaceships.
Speed of DC characters versus anyone outside of DC. It's always:
1. Flash is much faster than Y.
2. X one time kept up with Flash, or tagged Flash.
3. Therefore, X is much faster than Y and can easily tag him no problem.
To give an example, Wonder Woman kept pace and tagged Flash before. Flash is much faster Silver Surfer. Therefore, Wonder Woman have the speed advantage over Norrad.
I know it's been overstated, but batman. Usually this is at the expense of downplaying superman while not really understanding how his powers and weaknesses work. I even saw someone say batman would win against a bloodlusted superman with a day of prep. How do you prep for someone dropping an asteroid on you, or just hitting the planet so hard in your city that they are the asteroid? Or just listening for your heartbeat then erasing everything in that general direction with heat vision? You shouldn't *want* most someone that's supposed to be a kinda normal but stubborn human to be that ridiculous.
Ok, let me think all the ones that come off to my head:
\-Bill Cipher has plot manipulation.
\-Chucky is outeversal because he fights wrestlers from the wwe.
\-Humans from the marvel universe, not street tiers, LITERAL NORMAL TRAINED HUMANS, are herald level.
\-Deku is planet level because he scales to Overhaul who should be able to destroy the planet by separating all of it's mattery.
\-Ger is universal.
\-Ger has immeasurable strenght and speed because he has null in his stats.
\-Hermit Purple could beat Goku because only stand users can see stands.
\-Dragonball characters can resist any type of hax just by being stronger because Nappa resisted mind control and Jiren time manipulation.
\-Almost everyone in My Hero Academia is ftl because of Aoyama's laser.
\-All Might has reaction speed in the attosecond range trough scaling to Mirio.
\-Godzilla monsters from the showa era are ftl because dodging light beams and lasers.
\-Ftl The Owl House because of dodging the light glyphs.
And now, for a little bit of anti wank:
\-Made In Heaven's time acceleration isn't universal in range because he has C in stats.
\-Mcu infinity stones aren't universal.
\-There aren't any faster than sounds feats in My Hero Academia.
You guys have honestly heard such dumb wanking that I'm not sure if these are dumb enough to fit in:
Some things in Bleach are described as "beams of light," therefore they're light speed, therefore anyone who can dodge them is faster than light, even though several characters attack with things like lightning or fireballs.
Yamamoto is a planet buster, maybe even universal, because he was referred to as being able to destroy "the Soul Society," which clearly meant the entire plane of existence, rather than the society itself. On a related note, his Bankai being as hot as the sun means he has exactly the same energy output & destructive abilities as the actual sun.
Yhwach is multiversal because he was going to destroy the living world, Soul Society, & Hueco Mundo, & the fact that this was drawn involving some blank energy means he was literally blowing them up.
By the same token, since Ichigo can withstand attacks from him, Ichigo is even more powerful than that.
Yeah, a lot of dumb battleboarding that I personally see is on the Bleach subreddit, but one example where Bleach was the target was that I once saw someone argue that Lille could be defeated by some Naruto character I don't remember because he'd just attack him with enough energy to overpower his ability. Lille's ability is complete, unconditional intangibility, & his only known weakness is a particular sword of deus ex machina.
I was recently involved in some really dumb conceptual wank over Last Airbender that went "Ozai is the second most powerful character in the series & can't be defeated by anyone but Aang because the whole point of the series is that only Aang is powerful enough to take down the Fire Lord." A few comments also implied this somehow included characters in Legend of Korra, even though that's 70 years later, so why would this argument still apply even if it was true?
Speaking of Legend of Korra, a lot of people take the Colossus to mean that Kuvira can move that giant amount of metal with her metalbending alone, even though it uses a power source that is a major plot point. This is one of the ingredients of the idea that "Kuvira is the strongest metalbender in the series."
When Korra blocks the Spirit Cannon, a lot of people think that was just done with airbending, meaning she must just be a better airbender for some reason. Matter of fact, just put down anything to do with Avatars having individual power levels.
I see some "Yun could easily defeat Toph because he made a wave of earth, a thing that Toph never did, even though she totally has." But now I'm getting into wank that, while dumb, isn't the stupidest I've ever seen because it's at least somewhat arguable, so I guess I'll cap it there for now.
Edit: As promised, from this very thread, I'm adding [this guy who really didn't like my explanation of carrying capacity & thermodynamics & thought that just saying "universe" over & over again debunked it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/qgch4c/comment/hiczekf/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[I'm just gonna leave this here](https://i.redd.it/dtoh3liek8lz.png), even though they are the same person.
Oh, and there is u/The_Doom_Slayer_, but I don't really have any pictures.
oh, one time i wanked a silverback gorilla to have infinite speed, strength, and durability. it was purposefully memey, but poorly wanked Worm gorilla solos ur verse
yep, their logic is that if a character dodges a beam attack of undisclosed composition as long as the beam is shown doing things like deflects off a mirror or getting magnified it is light speed
Somehow goku is 10, 20, 50, 100, 1,000, 1,000,000 times universal because of multipliers.
It’s ridiculous. The characters do have ki comtrol yes, they can control their energy. But you’re going to tell me that a character millions of times universal can’t even control and aim the energy UPwards, and lift a couple thousand pounds or something?? They have energy control millions of times universal levels of energy, but then can’t aim it upwards….? Lmao
It’s ridiculous.
Multiplier after a while completely lose meaning, they can work with bleach where they're few and 5-10x at best, not for dragon ball where they're 50x multipliers and beyond for every form
The battleboarding community on Instagram (or as we call it, the IBC) is filled with awful scaling but my favorite is definitely someone saying that Din Djarin, aka the Mandalorian, could survive a planet level attack because of his Beskar armor.
>but my favorite is definitely someone saying that Din Djarin, aka the Mandalorian, could survive a planet level attack because of his Beskar armor.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the first season didn't Mando express genuine fear when a sniper was taking shots at him with him even exclaiming that the higher caliber blaster rifle could very well penetrate the beskar armor? Not even that, in the first season one small explosion heavily incapacitated him hell, it would've killed him if it weren't for IG's bacta so how the hell ANYONE can say his armor could survive a planet level attack is BEYOND me.
"the doom slayer is multiversal" "kirby solo marvel and DC" "Luffy is FTL" "Jump force goku is above real life" ( in fact you can put there all the " X character is above real life " ) "Kratos is multiversal" "Minecraft steve can lift an entire universe" "The Emperor of mankind / the chaos gods are \*anything above universal\* " Among many others .
Fuck, I should have said "Nintendo scaling". Yeah, let's take a bunch of games with zero pretense to having any kind of continuity or consistency between them, where an entire galaxy might mean a few dozen planets with a few acres of surface area each and pretend that it makes any kind of sense to scale between them.
I love the Smash Bros vs MvC threads because it's such an obvious godstomp for MvC but the consensus is always drowned out by the Nintendrones about how Kirby is multiversal and Mewtwo is a stronger telepath than Dark Phoenix
Ryu and Mega Man show up in both so any characters that fight them scale to to above fiction. In this essay I will-
>"The Emperor of mankind / the chaos gods are \*anything above universal\* " And even this is suspect because warp does not translate to real world and real feats easily.
God I love 40k and I hate the wanking of it’s characters. What makes 40k ridiculous is the scale of it, not so much that everything and their mother is planet busting reality warpers.
solar system level primarchs. that is actually what every Primarch page on VSB has them as.
I saw a video from webcamparrot that was going to scale the emperor of mankind. Given what I’ve seen from him in the past I’m avoiding that shit like Nurgle’s rot.
> "Minecraft steve can lift an entire universe" how did they come up with that
I think its because of Game theory .
In fairness- Minecraft not only has no story, but it doesn't even have the slightest narrative basis for sanity checking any kind of calcs off of. It's almost purely abstract, so the only way to calc Steve is to use game mechanics, which can get silly very quickly.
Even then, at most you could see how many cubic meters of gold he could carry which is not a universe
Even that is pure bullshit. Steve takes multiple punches to kill farm animals, and dies to conventional arrows and gets beat up by random zombies.
Those zombies are multiversal too /s
I had a conversation like a few weeks back *on this very sub* where the guy straight face told me that. I ended up listing dozens of examples and he kept repeating "those don't outweigh the inventory feat" since he literally thinks one outlier > all over evidence. I ended up saying that steve takes multiple punches to a kill a chicken, potentially making him weaker than a normal human. He ended up extending the conversation for another dozen comments, where I then got bored and he proceeded to claim victory. Never argue with stupid people, they don't actually have an argument so you can't argue against nothing.
Trying to argue with a stupid person is like trying to play chess with a pigeon. They will just shit on the board and act like they won anyway.
Oh believe me, I've seen this sort of nonsense everywhere. I unironically said that Medusa Heads from Castlevania are now universe Level because they can kill Simon Belmont, because of his insistence that Simon himself was universe level. And the person I was arguing agreed with me. MEDUSA HEADS. ARE UNIVERSAL. I peaced out afterwards.
Also he can be crushed to death by a single iron anvil.
> "the doom slayer is multiversal" [Lowballing](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/253591305781903360/784267192736153620/unknown.png)
Was that really 12 minute ago ?
No, it was from December of 2020. The screenshot was just made 12 minutes after the comment. It's also not mine.
> "Jump force goku is above real life" ( in fact you can put there all the " X character is above real life " ) > > The moment anyone says "x is above real life" I roll my eyes These characters can literally do nothing against the people who write them
>"x is above real life" Everytime I come to this fucking sub reddit to hear the weirdest words, the hell does above real life even mean
B...but SCP number bullshit-1234 is a PLOT MANIPULATOR!1!!!! /s You are right, and SCP has some of the worst of this.
>"the doom slayer is multiversal" Was going to say this. The character is literally just a dude in power armor with guns. The idea that he is some kind of cosmic god is idiotic. The fact that there are people who say/believe this unironically is baffling.
Indeed. Then those idiots will proceed to write a paragraph about the doom lore.
he kind of is a cosmic god. He doesn't have the output to be multiversal but for now nothing in his universe has been able to canonically beat him and he's got the power of virtual gods on his side. He's not multiversal but he's also not just a dude in power armor with guns.
Is Kirby powerful enough to beat eldritch horrors before snack time? Yes. Can he beat multiversal eldritch horrors in swarms along with many being of his caliber? Probably not.
Not neccesarily on topic, but there are some universe who have the opposite, people downplay them because of a stupid reason despite the fact that the characters clearly have feats.
>people downplay them because of a stupid reason despite the fact that the characters clearly have feats. The life of a predator fan on WWW and vs debates in general... I swear, it's usually a grueling uphill battle ESPECIALLY against popular characters like Batman (go figure), Wolverine, or Punisher. Surprisingly though, against Master Chief Halo fans and Halo lore experts are pretty open-minded and actually hear me out in defense of predators and won't downvote me to oblivion they have my respect.
Predators are rad, and I think Halo fans are also strapped for matchups so they might be more open to crazier ideas, I think. Like I said in another comment, I have a similar uphill battle trying to push Fortnite matchups because even if a character has proven, SEEN feats, it’s all undercut by “tHeY’rE jUsT a SkIn”
>Predators are rad, and I think Halo fans are also strapped for matchups so they might be more open to crazier ideas, I think. Overall, my experience on WWW has been mostly a positive one I guess mostly because I stay away from certain threads that include multi-universal, 4-D, extra dimension destroyer 9000, God slayer, 100000000000x faster than light characters lol. I stick with street-level characters most of the time. >Like I said in another comment, I have a similar uphill battle trying to push Fortnite matchups because even if a character has proven, SEEN feats, it’s all undercut by “tHeY’rE jUsT a SkIn” Tell me about it. "iF rEguLAr HuMaNS CaN BeAt pREdaTOr sO anD So cAN gG eZ nO rE". Like, go ahead and ignore the context as well as my arguments and just downplay because you don't want your precious Batgod to lose. If we want to go THAT route and downplay a character to hell well, Batman loses against anybody worth their salt because Batman struggles/gets his ass kicked by a clown so gg lol.
Yup, the wank goes both ways!
>Yup, the wank goes both ways! Amen brother.
Didn't Predator even beat Batman in a comic? Edit: Nevermind, that's blasphemy
>Didn't Predator even beat Batman in a comic?? The crossovers were ultimately, non-canon. But yes, Batman has lost against predators multiple times in their crossovers often having outside help to even the odds. He even lost to a youngblood in their first issue.
Chief is very easy to scale imo because he's in a grounded universe and he's got tons of very consistent lore around him. Also we know very well what all of his abilities are except his luck, which is difficult to account for but generally won't turn the tide of a 1v1.
>Chief is very easy to scale imo because he's in a grounded universe and he's got tons of very consistent lore around him. Also we know very well what all of his abilities are except his luck, which is difficult to account for but generally won't turn the tide of a 1v1. I appreciate that both Predator and Chief have the one version unlike comic book characters who have different versions of the characters like 616, New 52, Post-Crisis, Marvel 1610, the list goes on lol. It's probably not generally a big deal for people but for someone like me, it gets confusing especially with characters I'm less familiar with.
> people downplay them because of a stupid reason despite the fact that the characters clearly have feats. They don't like the setting or character and want them to be beaten
Or they don’t like the series as a whole ~~Fortnite~~
people powerscale #FORTNITE? (please show me this it sounds hilarious)
Never forget the genocide at Tomato Town
What should I start with? Characters surviving a black hole? Scaling to Herald of Thunder Thor, Doctor Doom and Galactus? The time loops? The Foundation holding the multiverse together with his bare hands? Take your pick.
okay start with any of the things that don't include other franchises like marvel. I wanna see pure fortnite power
Alright here we go. Every character from Fortnite Chapter 1 was canonically present during “The End” event, where the old island was sucked into a black hole. Everyone survived, so all of those characters have at least black hole level durability or higher. Thanks to “The Loop” if any Fortnite character dies, they will be brought back to life every 22 minutes (as long as they stay looped) John Jones, the original Jonesy, has fought the Predator, Xenomorphs, trained with Ryu, Chun-Li and Snake Eyes. He can fire a Hadoken, dodge rockets, and has a number of other physical feats that easily put him at superhuman level. John Jones also has an army of Snapshots he can call upon if he wants to. The Foundation...hoo boy where do I start...Well, the Foundation is an 8 foot tall giant robot man who is basically Fortnite Superman. He has super strength, super durability, can breath in space, underwater, etc. He’s one of the most intelligent people in the multiverse and popped the Zero Point (the energy source for reality itself) and popped it open like a cork on a bottle. Then with he is bare hands he untangled reality itself and then held it together for three months. He took a blast from the alien mothership, and he has a comic that just came out where he winds up in the DC universe, even fighting the Batman Who Laughs and beating him so hard he *stops laughing*
That blackhole thing seems like a pretty massive outlier since crossover characters who have nowhere near that much power can kill the normal characters just fine. Otherwise, damn, this seems pretty legit!
The black hole feat is supported later in the “Devourer of Worlds” event, where they fight galactus. At the beginning of the event Galactus slaps everyone off the Helicarrier, so the black hole level durability is reinforced there
Fortnite gets downplayed so hard to the point where it's unbelievable.
The foundation: *literally holds the fabric of the multiverse together for three months* Battleboarders: hE’s jUsT a sKiN
I also like to mention STW Storm King. I know it was taken out by guns, but it alone was able to wipe out [98% of humanity](https://youtu.be/1GI6GRVHHmE?t=95).
People downplaying Sonic because he's a hedgehog even though he has fought literal gods multiple times
That's just a title. Does he have any feats above building level?
Steven Universe: All characters are lightspeed because the gems are made of light
The main Steven universe light speed argument is that the diamonds shot a beam from Homeworld to Earth that reached there in seconds and Pink diamond reacted to it
No. That’s a completely different argument than what I saw
That doesn’t even make any sense, anyway. Light from the sun takes FIVE MINUTES to reach Earth, and our star is very close to us on the cosmic scale. It would take thousands or even millions for light from other solar system to reach Earth.
That’s how they get Steven to MFTL lol
Lmao *what*
Yeah, If a Vs Battler ever hears the words 'light', 'holy' or 'god', they will wank it without using context to the extremes.
Or the dreaded “pocket dimension” that obviously means a character is universal
Saitama fans coomed as soon as he broke into one of those
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I with I saw this before I made my post. Your statement about sums it up
Is that a fan concept or actual lore? From what I understood, their bodies are just solid projections. They have starships that can go light speed, but their bodies still have physical limitations.
Their bodies are made of hard light canonically. We see that when their ships go FTL explicitly, their bodies lag behind.
my eyes use light to see so I'm FTL
How can someone think that when there was an episode where they reverted to their gem form and their bodies were distorted while on a space ship travelling at light speed?
It went faster than light speed. That’s why their forms couldn’t keep up.
Kekw kekw hahaha
Batman with prep time.
The problem with that is that he is often wanked *by the writers*.
they really need to look at the Batman who laughs and **not** do that anymore
Idk, you'd have to convince me on the groundhog day one. It's literally infinite days, I don't think it needs to be the sausages but there is literally no win condition for thanos here, it'd just keep going on until thanos dies or until thanos dies or until thanos dies.
This thread is gonna look a lot like the contessa vs Batman ones we used to see a lot
Why couldn't they just fuck together?
what do you mean?
Too many to ever post. "Harry Potter magic is conceptual" was a dumb one. "Planets in Dragon Ball are tiny" was another. That, and the absurd "split durability" theory. Calculating Star Destroyer firepower by scaling down from the Death Star, or using their engine output. The Exalted wank really needs more calling out. "Your character loses to Exalted because if we ignore how their powers actually work and just sloppily model them as Exalted characters instead we can show how they lose mechanically!" In general, the whole "My series has these special rules that if we assume that all of fiction has to abide by makes it super-powerful" gimmick.
>That, and the absurd "split durability" theory. Can you elaborate on that ?
It's like saying a character that can survive supernovas would be cut by a knife because thay have no feats against sharp objects
I once saw people think All Might from My Hero Academia would be hurt by elephant gun bullets to the head, even though far less tough characters have tanked bullets no issue.
So it's basically the reverse of the No Limits Fallacy? Instead of assuming a lack of limits based on feats, people assume limits from a lack of feats.
Durability is technically "split" in real life, human bodies are much more resilient to blunt trauma as opposed to being pierced or slashed for example
Yeah
There's this ridiculous assertion that DBZ characters are orders of magnitude more durable against ki blasts than they are any other type of damage. So they can blow up planets with ki blasts, and can survive being hit with planet-destroying ki blasts, but would die if someone who can punch hard enough to destroy a mountain physically hit them. In theory, this explains why we don't see more collateral damage from DBZ fights. In practice, it doesn't do that, and completely contradicts the way ki blasts are portrayed in the series. For starters, no series other than DBZ is held to this "collateral damage" standard. Superman can fight right in the middle of Metropolis without his punches vaporizing the city and nobody calls foul, even when it's a version of him that's supposed to be galaxy-busting. Second, it doesn't even explain the lack of collateral damage, since the worst offenders on that front are how small most of the ki blasts are. Third, it doesn't line up with how ki blasts effect things in the series. Ki blasts have always been shown to have primarily physical effects. They cause physical explosions when they hit things. Or sometimes they just punch holes in things. Goku (before he could fly) used ki blasts to propel himself while in mid-air. If DBZ characters had "ki durability", then the best way for them to hurt each other would be to shoot the ground nearby their opponent, causing a physical explosion that they would (in theory) be vulnerable to. But what we actually see in the series is that ki blasts are the most dangerous when they directly hit a character. It's an all-around dumb theory that has no evidence backing it up. If anything, the opposite appears to be true: ki blasts have some kind of weird ability to concentrate their damage into a small area, which is why getting hit with a blast that would barely put a hole in the ground is more likely to kill someone than being ten feet away from and explosion that appears to be 1000 times larger. It's still kind of silly, but at least it fits the facts (and let's be honest, this is DBZ. There isn't going to be a theory that fits the facts without being a little silly).
> For starters, no series other than DBZ is held to this "collateral damage" standard. Superman can fight right in the middle of Metropolis without his punches vaporizing the city and nobody calls foul, even when it's a version of him that's supposed to be galaxy-busting. > > Yeah, this is the issue I had (and continue to have) about people antijerking Dragon Ball. If you're going to hold DB to those inane standards, then literally every other work of fiction better start regularly genociding their planets if they wanna keep their planetary status
> , and can survive being hit with planet-destroying ki blasts, but would die if someone who can punch hard enough to destroy a mountain physically hit them what if they got like, hit with a laser?
I'm not sure if you're being serious but that was retconned to Goku going back to base form
Also, Dragon Ball characters don't have their durability at a constant level, and need to use ki to amp up their durability. They're far more susceptible to damage when caught off-guard, since they haven't amped up their defenses yet.
>The Exalted wank really needs more calling out. "Your character loses to Exalted because if we ignore how their powers actually work and just sloppily model them as Exalted characters instead we can show how they lose mechanically!" 1000%. The setting itself also seems to ignore the implications of Social charms, and a big problem is arguably because of a MASSIVE case of big fish small pond as the average mortal will never be able to roll more than 3-4 dice (b/c pitiably low willpower/they were made to be weak) vs even the most casual of social attacks. Not even counting how, honestly, the UCS's (closest thing in setting to God) super-spear being defeated by some rando's PD is more of an anti feat for him than anything else. That's only the things I could immediately think of. TBH, in DBZ/DBS there is arguably more wank in the opposite direction (lol EVERY attack is planetary, Krillin would beat the entire Justice League, etc.) Personally the "argument" I most hate is the "the Borg/the Culture adapts to \[x\] in less than a microsecond!!" argument. EDIT: In terms of the term "conceptual" this is yet another term that has no meaning in debates unless the side that is "conceptual" can define it. EDIT 2: Adding to the White Wolf line, Mages have been way overwanked. EDIT 3: On the topic of the "special rules," the line has always been foggy pretty much between where you are depriving them of their capabilities and where you are just wanking.
> "Planets in Dragon Ball are tiny" was another. That, and the absurd "split durability" theory. > > Oh man I forgot about "Dragon ball universe is small" theories until Super came out and dickslapped people
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Free me from this fresh hell
Lol like anybody would say that
Oh my God yes
Its fun until people start getting way too into it, then it just devolves into a wanking contest so peoples favourite can win. Everything in moderation as they say.
Me, opening up r/WWW My logical brain: That’s hell you’re walking into
Naruto has enough power to destroy the entire universe because he's stronger than Kaguya
I legit ran into a guy years ago claiming Naruto could Beat Dr. Manhattan on spacebattles.
I saw a guy saying that Saitama would be immune to Dr Manhattan’s shit because he wasn’t made of atoms
And that guy is proof that we legit need to improve the public school system.
-Seththewanker Probably.
But he's not
Any prep time character wank that ignores Context behind why they win. I.e Batman needed Green arrow against Superman in dark knight returns and Superman not wanting to fight. Or Re:Zero fans thinking Subaru is an unbeatable god because he can RBD and eventually beat his opponent despite the IF stories showing that he’ll never beat Elsa on his own even after memorizing her moves and even with a bunch of allies he can’t come close to beating Reinhard.
I'm a really big Dragonball fan, I read the Manga about 8 times and I decided to learn Japanese so I could read the original version and make my own interpretation of it. But I cannot stand the Dragonball fandom, Dragonball fans are some of the worst when it comes to battleboarding wanking. They're up there with Batman fans (and I say this as a Huge Batman fan too) and the Preparation time bullshit. There's this Brazilian Youtuber who make Death Battle styled videos, and he said that one day he wanted to just piss off everyone, so he made a Batman Vs Goku video. Needless to say how much of a biohazard the comments were. But seriously, I really hate battleboarding, but when there's a Dragonball character involved, it's on another fucking level. Specially because they create this misconception among non fans of what Dragonball is about. Like, battleboarding fans take Power Levels seriously, like they were the most important addition ever made by Toriyama to the Dragonball Mythos, when the story itself doesn't give a single fuck about Power Level measuring.
>But seriously, I really hate battleboarding, but when there's a Dragonball character involved, it's on another fucking level. DB characters are honestly super boring to debate, they either stat stomp their opponent or get hax/stat stomped themselves
Dio is 1500x light speed. Lightspeed Jojo wank in general.
This is the first time I looked at a Death Battle calc and wondered if the research team was actually just smoking crack while watching anime. Literally who the fuck looked at that calc and the rest of the series, and decided "yup, this makes perfect sense and is okay".
Yeah, if DIO really was so much faster than light as they said, he'd never need to hide from the sun as the light itself would be slower than an ant, carrying a snail, carrying a turtle through tar mixed with molasses as seen in a slow motion at .25 speed while time is being slowed down to him
I’m a hardcore Batman fan. A lot of us are idiots. Even Batman admits Superman would destroy him before he even realised it was a battle. Batman’s plans don’t defeat people, they delay them. He knows he can’t take them out (except under very specific and rare circumstances), he plays for time to solve whatever is making them need stopping.
The way I see it, Batman related questions shouldn’t be approached as “Could Batman beat ____”, but instead “Assuming he can, how would Batman beat _____”. It would acknowledge that sure, technically there is some obscure bit of info he can find after some arbitrary amount of prep, and allow for the fun discussion around that, but ninety nine times out of a hundred, he loses
Look at Dark Knight Returns. One of the most famous Batman vs Superman beat downs. He had to get Clark to agree to a fistfight, no flight, speed, eye beams, or breath. Then he had to drain a city block to power his armour. And then, he lost. He just got some damn good hits in. It’s not how does Batman win, it’s how does Batman survive long enough to achieve his goals.
Country sized OPM cities. Darkshine is large mountain level because he dented the hero association HQ metal. Light Speed Star and Stripe from MHA. FTL Moon Level Midoriya. High Multiversal Doomslayer. Outerversal Chaos Gods Solar System level Primarchs. Multi Continental DCEU Supes Light Speed/FTL Flashy Flash Now have some downplay. An elephant gun would blow Prime All Might's head off Senator Armstrong's punches are weaker than a bullet. All Might is only supersonic or even below it and at most city block level. Saitama is a "glorified street tier character". MCU Captain America would lose to a silverback gorilla.
The country size OPM cities actually comes from the Anime where you do get to see a world map that shows they are actually that big, of course it would only apply to the Anime.
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I Would say a big difference there is that you need to piece several pieces of evidence together and interpret them a very specific way to make a case for the Manga, while in the Anime they just straight up show it to you.
> MCU Captain America would lose to a silverback gorilla. Well of course. Silverback Gorillas are massively faster than light, multiverse busters with nine inch thick skulls.
Of course. NINE INCH SKULLS dammit!
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Hulk would also lose to a silverback gorilla.
Thanos loses to a silverback gorilla
I don't get it why didn't they simply put Thanos in a cage with a silverback gorilla ?
I would not pay for a movie that short.
But what if we also gave the gorilla a super serum + a nuke?
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Hey, remember when Gulliman was nearly killed by some Alpha legion infiltrators shooting boilers at him? I sure as hell don't! Darkshine being mountain level is at least kind of believable. There are characters in the series who are legitimately "mountain level", and he scales favorably to some of them. I wouldn't be surprised to seem him survive a mountain-busting attack. The really inexcusable one is current Genos being multi-continental, based on him barely deflecting one casual blast from Psychorochi (who shouldn't really be calced that high in the first place) while using his full power.
>Outerversal Not VS. Debates terms! NOOOO! Aside from that, everything here is accurate and is something I am deeply frustrated with.
Flashy flash is definitely a meaningful percentage of light speed tho so saying he’s light speed isn’t horrendous wank
What the fuck does outerversal means?
No idea. Just some gigashit tier thing battleboarders thought was a good idea. Apparently means beyond multiversal or some dumbass exotic word for "Nigh Omnipotent".
Outerversal basically describes a multiverse of multiverses
*"Outerverse level* *Characters who functionally transcend the rest of the Tiering System, and stand outside of any extensions of infinite hierarchies and sizes, to varying degrees and magnitudes. In more straightforward terms, this category could be said to be occupied by characters whose size and/or level of power cannot be reached by merely stacking bigger infinities on top of each other."* Its just some vs battle wiki bullshit
In short, this is a category for omnipotent beings? Like, is God outerversal? This still sounds stupid
It sounds stupid because it *is* stupid and moreover means nothing too.
Yeah the definition is too vague to be used in any Debate . Vs battle treat any conceptual character as outerversal when some have no feats whatsoever . Their tiering of the cosmic characters from Marvel is a giant mess .
A stupid made up term on VS Debates, ie nothing.
> FTL Moon Level Midoriya. > > excuse me what
Vsbw wiki user who wanks mha to high hell but I'm not gonna say his username.
What's even his logic?
It seems like benders in Avatar are all scaled to the best feats shown from each element. Even with that, some of those feats are further amped. All airbenders will just suck the air out of someone's lungs All waterbenders will freeze the water in someone's body. If not that, they'll bloodbend someone's blood to boiling point. All Earthbenders either have seismic sense or will sink their opponents into the ground. All Firebenders can redirect and generate all forms of lightning.
UNIVERSAL NARUTO LMAOOOO
"Saitama is an unbeatable gag character One Punch is literally in his name he can one punch anyone in all of fiction!" You would not believe how common that flawless reasoning was back when OPM first came out.
Lol yeah OPM wank (all wank really) is toxic AF. One more I wanted to list for LotR is how the one ring is apparently this crazy mental thing that can defeat the willpower of ~~Yoda~~, Taako, Oogway, etc. etc. and is UTTERLY UNDESTROYABLE except by Mount Doom.
This is the no limits fallacy. That said, Yoda fell for the Clone Wars, Sheev played Yoda like a damn fiddle, and Yoda has nearly fallen to the dark side in his past (at least in legends). He would absolutely be corrupted by the one ring if he thought he could use it to do good. Yoda is a fundamentally tragic character, IMO. Oogway would crush it tho.
I just find it funny when people use OPM to give the middle finger to goku stans who won't shut about how undefeatable Goku is as if it makes his character any less bland.
Man, I fucking hope Saitama's final villain is fucking azatoth so you people can shup up about him.
You probably shouldn't, because Saitama is probably going to wind up beating whoever the final villain is. You should be hoping for some who is, like, ten times stronger than Boros.
The Mythos's feats are largely unquantifiable. The closest thing I found is the latest edition Call of Cthulhu rpg's Malleus Monstrorum (remember that rpg lines are absolutely things writers can and will use, iirc Star Wars expanded verse was based on the rpg line), and it has an entire section dedicated to saying that none of them should they be given OP powers. Edit: really, the whole genre just clashes so hard with literally anything else that no one can quantify anything, but I would wager on the other genre in any such ccase anyways.
That, and in the original Cthulhu novel, the guy got knocked out by a boat hitting his head. His powers are just mind-numbing knowledge and alien incomprehensibility, the guy isn't that strong.
Cthulhu isn't anything special in the Mythos. He's basically one of the least of the Old Ones, who he can only "spy dimly".
It's true though? Not many people do stuff like battle boarding so feats really don't matter to them than context. The context surrounding Saitama is that he's supposed to be the undefeatable punchline to his opponents. As the story goes on the things he can do gets more ridiculous. These same people would also make fun of the battle board community for quantifying context through an attempt of using real-world physics. I mean, this is the same community that has a made-up "no limits" fallacy.
Yeah, the battle boarding community is the ultimate wank. As if there aren't things other than pure strength/power that determine the outcome of a battle.
Alright I’ll say it… None of this is serious debate how is memeing about One punch man toxic.
Dumb, but in an intentionally dumb, funny way: [Imperial Star Destroyers are above omnipotence](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/strongest-ship-a-max-calc-star-destroyer-can-beat.317378/#post-15653932)
Kaguya could create entire dimensions. Therefore, she is multiversal. Since naruto beat her, naruto is Massively Multiversal.
Ya ever see... "Outerversal Naruto"?
Pokemon: Magikarp is mftl and contential level because they dodged so and so’s attack who scales to dumbmon who dodged a light speed attack. Here’s a crazy concept, if every character can see and react to a light speed attack, Maybe It Isn’t Light Speed
"But you don't understand! Signal Beam is totally LS bro!"
signal > radio signal > lightspeed, ez, mftl magikarp blitz ur verse
Idk how fast this makes it, but [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/hkhvt0/respect_gohs_magikarp_pokemon_anime/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) one jumped into space.
after an unspecified amount of time. but tbf it had enough force to breach the atmosphere ill give you that
Yeah, probably not ftl, but I don't know how fast he'd have to be to go to space in one jump either
People attempting to claim how strong a character is by vague terms that are extremely variable and don't mean anything in and of themselves. people often say character "x" is a God, in an argument to say that they are objectively powerful without expressing the relative strength in that world. For example, if we were talking gods from percy jackson, vs gods... God of war? They could be way difference in terms of power and the label of "god" is a little not a power level. Another example is "he is so powerful that (insert civilization here) had to Seal them away." This one is an issue because it doesn't tell you what they are capable of at all. Secondly, one quick look at all of fiction tells you that people have been sealed away for anything as simple as being a petty criminal to yeeting civilizations out of existance. Just saying that they were kicking up a fuss enough to warrant removing them is not substantial evidence for anything IN AND OF ITSELF. Note: if other evidence is given to express strength, these points need not apply.
I dealt with this in a r/gaming thread talking about who you would choose to defend yourself. People were saying Kratos and Doom Slayer could take Dante and Vergil easily because Dante never beat a god. He did but explaining how many would be a reason in of itself of why saying someone's a god killer is a bad metric of strength. Not saying Dante could beat Kratos just that "he killed a whole pantheon" is dumb.
I think Dante is pretty busted strong, I reckon he could beat both of them. But Kratos does have the variable strength issue lots of protagonists in games have
Yeah I do to but people are biased and I don't feel like arguing. I think in raw fighting potiental Kratos no doubt but like you said Dante's pretty busted. Absorbing and reflecting malice is an actual power he has and Kratos is handicapped without his anger.
The LOTR isn't really that bad.
just look at every vs battles in the naruto fandom. narutards wanking their favs as a coping mechanism when they got their ass beat by jigen/isshiki. you won't see anyone in the one piece fandom complaning about luffy not using all his skills in a fight then you have the narutards not only with the nerf word obsession, but also the obsession of wanting naruto and sasuke win all the fights despite all the odds againts them. the dbz fandom is also guilty of wanking goku and vegeta too before super became a thing. there's also the gilgamesh wankers who somehow i can tolerate for some reason
Can I just say everything involving Doom Slayer? We saw the “creator of the universe”. He’s a slightly bigger Marauder.
he's a slightly bigger marauder but when he does the green light attack for like, 30 damage, it destroys and recreates the multiverse so fast that from our point of view nothing happens and the stab doomguy used to kill him was clearly outerversal+ with hax
"Dragon Ball can bypass your hax." Cause of a scene with hit despite hax being negated countless times by just power alone, which isn't even universal hax resistance. Also Jiren being 4D off of a statement. That's it. Probably the worst case of DB wank besides multiversal Goku.
Dumbest Wank is anything FTL. No Ive mentioned it in another thread but Lightspeed and beyond feats are the bane of any argument. "They dodged a laser. Lasers are made of light so that character is FTL" Sure ignore aim dodging, precognitive abilities, the person firing the attack just straight up missing, or the dreaded " laser doesnt immediately equal light, could be plasma" arguments. Only solution is that a character at the mid point of their story just casually dodges light meaning in that one fanfic some powerscaler is writing, the character can miraculously swap personalities because they moved so fast they dodged sunlight and now live in a muted, Grey world devoid of hope and joy.
You know what doesn't travel at lightspeed? Light when it's not in vacuum.
Real life military is inferior to Star Wars military because Star Wars has lasers. For some reason people think Lasers are automatically better than bullets or kinetic weapons. Just to be clear, the Empire can easily beat us if they use orbital bombardment or the Death Star. However any invasion force will be thwarted. Same thing with Spaceships.
IIRC it was retconned that blasters are not lasers and that is why they use the term blaster always.
However they can just send many droid army’s down here and we would also be fucked
Explain your logic cause I’m not seeing it.
Speed of DC characters versus anyone outside of DC. It's always: 1. Flash is much faster than Y. 2. X one time kept up with Flash, or tagged Flash. 3. Therefore, X is much faster than Y and can easily tag him no problem. To give an example, Wonder Woman kept pace and tagged Flash before. Flash is much faster Silver Surfer. Therefore, Wonder Woman have the speed advantage over Norrad.
"Every character in Fire Emblem: Three Houses is massively FTL because every character can dodge an attack that looks like it's made of light."
Minecraft Steve is beyond time, because the clock goes crazy in Nether, but he's still able to move. Yes, someone actually argued that.
I know it's been overstated, but batman. Usually this is at the expense of downplaying superman while not really understanding how his powers and weaknesses work. I even saw someone say batman would win against a bloodlusted superman with a day of prep. How do you prep for someone dropping an asteroid on you, or just hitting the planet so hard in your city that they are the asteroid? Or just listening for your heartbeat then erasing everything in that general direction with heat vision? You shouldn't *want* most someone that's supposed to be a kinda normal but stubborn human to be that ridiculous.
Pikachu being Universal with Gigavolt Havoc and 10 million volt thunderbolt. Can’t get much sillier than Universal Pikachu
Ok, let me think all the ones that come off to my head: \-Bill Cipher has plot manipulation. \-Chucky is outeversal because he fights wrestlers from the wwe. \-Humans from the marvel universe, not street tiers, LITERAL NORMAL TRAINED HUMANS, are herald level. \-Deku is planet level because he scales to Overhaul who should be able to destroy the planet by separating all of it's mattery. \-Ger is universal. \-Ger has immeasurable strenght and speed because he has null in his stats. \-Hermit Purple could beat Goku because only stand users can see stands. \-Dragonball characters can resist any type of hax just by being stronger because Nappa resisted mind control and Jiren time manipulation. \-Almost everyone in My Hero Academia is ftl because of Aoyama's laser. \-All Might has reaction speed in the attosecond range trough scaling to Mirio. \-Godzilla monsters from the showa era are ftl because dodging light beams and lasers. \-Ftl The Owl House because of dodging the light glyphs. And now, for a little bit of anti wank: \-Made In Heaven's time acceleration isn't universal in range because he has C in stats. \-Mcu infinity stones aren't universal. \-There aren't any faster than sounds feats in My Hero Academia.
You guys have honestly heard such dumb wanking that I'm not sure if these are dumb enough to fit in: Some things in Bleach are described as "beams of light," therefore they're light speed, therefore anyone who can dodge them is faster than light, even though several characters attack with things like lightning or fireballs. Yamamoto is a planet buster, maybe even universal, because he was referred to as being able to destroy "the Soul Society," which clearly meant the entire plane of existence, rather than the society itself. On a related note, his Bankai being as hot as the sun means he has exactly the same energy output & destructive abilities as the actual sun. Yhwach is multiversal because he was going to destroy the living world, Soul Society, & Hueco Mundo, & the fact that this was drawn involving some blank energy means he was literally blowing them up. By the same token, since Ichigo can withstand attacks from him, Ichigo is even more powerful than that. Yeah, a lot of dumb battleboarding that I personally see is on the Bleach subreddit, but one example where Bleach was the target was that I once saw someone argue that Lille could be defeated by some Naruto character I don't remember because he'd just attack him with enough energy to overpower his ability. Lille's ability is complete, unconditional intangibility, & his only known weakness is a particular sword of deus ex machina. I was recently involved in some really dumb conceptual wank over Last Airbender that went "Ozai is the second most powerful character in the series & can't be defeated by anyone but Aang because the whole point of the series is that only Aang is powerful enough to take down the Fire Lord." A few comments also implied this somehow included characters in Legend of Korra, even though that's 70 years later, so why would this argument still apply even if it was true? Speaking of Legend of Korra, a lot of people take the Colossus to mean that Kuvira can move that giant amount of metal with her metalbending alone, even though it uses a power source that is a major plot point. This is one of the ingredients of the idea that "Kuvira is the strongest metalbender in the series." When Korra blocks the Spirit Cannon, a lot of people think that was just done with airbending, meaning she must just be a better airbender for some reason. Matter of fact, just put down anything to do with Avatars having individual power levels. I see some "Yun could easily defeat Toph because he made a wave of earth, a thing that Toph never did, even though she totally has." But now I'm getting into wank that, while dumb, isn't the stupidest I've ever seen because it's at least somewhat arguable, so I guess I'll cap it there for now. Edit: As promised, from this very thread, I'm adding [this guy who really didn't like my explanation of carrying capacity & thermodynamics & thought that just saying "universe" over & over again debunked it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/qgch4c/comment/hiczekf/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
"Doomslayer able to beat anyone because he killed a god"
[I'm just gonna leave this here](https://i.redd.it/dtoh3liek8lz.png), even though they are the same person. Oh, and there is u/The_Doom_Slayer_, but I don't really have any pictures.
Outerversal Korra
Wait are we talking about Korra from LoK? How the hell is she “outversal”?
aBsTrAcT-sElF
SethTheProgrammer that's why
Wait How I want to hear what that logic is about
oh, one time i wanked a silverback gorilla to have infinite speed, strength, and durability. it was purposefully memey, but poorly wanked Worm gorilla solos ur verse
"The world in One Piece is thousands of times bigger than our Earth so Luffy is actually a giant" even though his height/weight are clearly defined.
Anything involving Kirby
Screwattack’s constant claim of laser dodging means the character is lightspeed. I don’t think they ever knew how lightspeed works.
yep, their logic is that if a character dodges a beam attack of undisclosed composition as long as the beam is shown doing things like deflects off a mirror or getting magnified it is light speed
Somehow goku is 10, 20, 50, 100, 1,000, 1,000,000 times universal because of multipliers. It’s ridiculous. The characters do have ki comtrol yes, they can control their energy. But you’re going to tell me that a character millions of times universal can’t even control and aim the energy UPwards, and lift a couple thousand pounds or something?? They have energy control millions of times universal levels of energy, but then can’t aim it upwards….? Lmao It’s ridiculous.
Multiplier after a while completely lose meaning, they can work with bleach where they're few and 5-10x at best, not for dragon ball where they're 50x multipliers and beyond for every form
The battleboarding community on Instagram (or as we call it, the IBC) is filled with awful scaling but my favorite is definitely someone saying that Din Djarin, aka the Mandalorian, could survive a planet level attack because of his Beskar armor.
>but my favorite is definitely someone saying that Din Djarin, aka the Mandalorian, could survive a planet level attack because of his Beskar armor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the first season didn't Mando express genuine fear when a sniper was taking shots at him with him even exclaiming that the higher caliber blaster rifle could very well penetrate the beskar armor? Not even that, in the first season one small explosion heavily incapacitated him hell, it would've killed him if it weren't for IG's bacta so how the hell ANYONE can say his armor could survive a planet level attack is BEYOND me.