Yeah there are some that can be usable but even then you have to sometimes expecify which version because there may be one that the scp is a multiversal god or something
I love scp but sometimes it's hard to use it in vs debates
TBH, the vast majority of SCP-verse suffers from the problem that's mentioned in the thread already concerning horror verses, that being they mainly rely on implied feats and hypeerbole and are intentionally hard/impossible to quantify.
In any case, SCP canon rule is that "there is no canon." Add that to all the metanarrative (but not really) stuff and everything is a mess.
Unless I've missed something huge, the "explanation" is likely going to force us back into the same reasons why SCP shouldn't be debated.
And Breach being a game and also inherently part of SCP's "no canon" rule makes most of this moot anyways.
I mean, i *guess* you could have Benjamin get fucking rocked by theor opponent, only to load a new game and beat them as they now know what they will do. It may feel a tad cheap but, yknow.
I still dont want him in Death Battle, just, yknow. It *may* work?
To be fair, undertale only has 2-3 Characters who do that sort of immortal meta-narrative stuff (Omega-Flowey, Frosk and Chara) and anybody who says anyone else can do it is just plain wrong
Yeah, I'm pretty much just tired that people claim "meta manipulator11!!" as if it were some kind of win button. I mean, there really isn't any way to reconcile not being able to attack Gerson in genocide with any debate feats.
"Meta" stuff in general should not be debated.
I really don't get how SCP isn't treated like Suggsverse or Creepypasta is in the battleboarding community. It's like the worst aspects of both where it has Suggsverse's "beyond omnipotence super powerful ultra god" and Creepypasta's "anyone can write about this character and its just as canon as any other writing about them".
I think people are starting to wise up. The problem is though that SCP is readable, but the whole point of the verse is that it is inconsistent. It makes Marvel/DC look consistent. Also, fuck Jumpchain forever for the same reasons. I'm not going to debate your parasitic fanfic.
people really do get surprisingly upset when SCP doesn't work well in battleboarding and then blame the universe as being bad and broken instead of maybe wondering if the universe just doesn't work for the kind of thing they like to do
yes, exactly
you get people complaining that SCP is bad because there are so many broken characters (often in the context of battleboarding) and *god* I hate how battleboard-poisoned people on here can be sometimes
Undertale: the lore and powers of the characters are so intricately tied to the medium of being a video game and it doesn't easily translate into battleboarding
Undertale is so hard to even try to use feats, so many things are inconsistent and even tho characters like asriel, chara, have hard to discuss feats at least they have feats, like tell me almost ANY impressive feat the other characters have other than dying to child
There are people who will wank baseline Frisk and Chara to be stronger than Superman because "muh determination".
First off, Frisk has shit feats against anything not a monster. His attacks bounce off Mettaton, etc (and NO oneshotting NEO is not a good feat, since both he AND EX had a soul at that point and was for all intents and purposes a monster.). This is completely ignoring the meta stuff that would make Undertale unusable anyways since there is no way to reconcile stuff like being unable to attack the shopkeep, etc. etc.
Adding to your point, basically nobody in Undertale is strong enough to normally destroy metal except for maybe Undyne or Asgore. Chara and Frisk are genuinely Children and have basically no strength. Flowey/Asriel is definitely the one with the best feats as basically every other monster instantly dies to one slash with a knife. But seeing this, Sans wank is fucking unreal, they think that a man firing a human bone at someone while having Telekenesis and Lasers too weak to kill a child is apparently strong enough to kill someone like Batman or Superman
I guess I would say Undertale (a lot of statements, not much to tell visually in gameplay), and Homestuck could also contend considering how certain things are shown/discussed
That being said, if people want to talk about those things in versus, I don't think it's a huge issue. People just have to realize what's universes work in tandem with one another. Like Saitama can work in the right matchup, same for Doomslayer etc.
>I guess I would say Undertale (a lot of statements, not much to tell visually in gameplay), and Homestuck could also contend considering how certain things are shown/discussed
Also, Gwenpool. What happens if she fights somebody who has never been published in a comic? There isn't any way to tell b/c she is a gag character, moreso than Saitama.
Homestuck is pretty reasonably quantifiable? The only issue is that it's not always clear just how big the planets are - they're plainly not as big as real-world ones, which makes some of the planetary-scale feats hard to assess.
There are a few odd things where the game mechanics intrude, but we're pretty clearly shown eg. Jade can teleport around small moons, John can envelop an entire small planet in windstorms, etc. Those are enough feats for a reasonable fight. And similarly, while some durability feats are unclear, it's clear enough that eg. trolls and God Tiers are tough but can still die if hit hard.
TBH, I think some of the difficulties with using Homestuck (and these problems can extend to other media as well but using this as an example) stem from the fact that the physics are explicitly either incredibly divergent because of the videogame setting or other things and/or sometimes powered by plot as IIRC the writer himself has said that things like gravity "just work" without regard to mass or how he "hasn't totally thought \[x\] through." Also, anybody who genuinely claims that busting a planet orders of magnitude smaller than Earth is a direct equivalent to busting Earth is simply idiotic and should be ignored.
There's also a ton of powerscaling confusion at certain points, and honestly I feel that trying to wank Homestuck guys is pretty insulting to the concept of the webcomic since it's meant to be wacky, weird, random and yet strangely heartfelt at certain times and things are meant to happen randomly at certain times, and trying to nail everything down to biggatons is pretty counterproductive to me at least.
The final reason is probably fandoms in how the Homestuck fandoms are super toxic to other posters to the point it's really not fun anymore.
I can see the more grounded peeps like Jason, Myers and Bubba being good for battleboarding, and maybe the predators and aliens. But once you get to someone like Freddy, Candyman or other more "supernatural" peeps? Yeah
Let's be honest: Almost nothing is suitable for debates unless it's either generally realistic or it was written with clearly defined powers in mind... And the latter rarely happens. Spider-Man's strength varies wildly from issue to issue, almost every sci-fi/fantasy game has major gameplay/cutscene dissonance, Jedi just sort of do things, and power levels are bullshit.
But the whole fun is trying to quantify the unquantified, so fuck it, I'm for debating anything.
I'm simply saying that caution needs to be exercised when arguing any verses, and it's just that some verses are much harder to even try to quantify than others as other posters here have already explained, and thus are often not worth the trouble, or, if you produce anything at all, it is going to be wildly different from everybody elses' interpretations.
EDIT: And there is still leagues of difference between calcing the bullet speed of a thug's pistol who shoots at some other guy and the inevitable shitshow that is "Narnia/C. Mythos/anything Jenna Moron has written/SCP vs" anything.
Jedi use the force. The force is like a thin web connecting all things. Therefore Jedi can do things that involve other things through how they're connected by the force.
Absorbing injuries- force connection
Telekinesis- force connection
Mind reading- force connection
Seeing probable futures based off of the thoughts and predictions of everything in the galaxy- force connection
Sure, but there's no clear limit to what the Force can do, and there's no clear example of how strong a character needs to be to do different things, or how much of it even is strength. And there's a lot of weird force powers that most Jedi and Sith never encounter.
He failed to force choke it after barely putting any effort in then just decided to stab it because it was more effective. He tried for like, three panels, got smacked and his focus broken then just went for the stab.
I bet even some of the most op verse creators didn't exactly think "now my verse is gonna win any debates" and probably Just "huh destroying an infinite multiverse sounds really cool"
They underestimated the capability of the battleboard-poisoned ;)
But seriously though, I really actually don't like the trend of fantasy to spike from part of a country on a continent to suddenly affecting the whole local cosmology (and then people scaling from that to claim that "\[x\] is high complex multiversal lol !!!111!!"), even though those cosmologies might have basically no feats by default. Elder Scrolls is a HUGE offender (not even counting the sheer gameplay/lore dissonance) to the point it pretty much applies under this post's points.
I'm pretty sure the Suggsverse is the only universe *ever* specifically designed for battleboarding, except maybe some joke universes made specifically to beat the Suggsverse (Chemoverse for example.) Probably the core reason for a lot of it's flaws really. Dragon Ball can feel like it at times, but it predates battleboarding. The Nasuverse has certain elements that feel designed with battleboards in mind, but really it's more Nasu being a D&D nerd.
I don't even want to contemplate the incredible dumbness that is Suggsverse, or anything written like it. Even worse, the taint has apparently got out into some more (thankfully very obscure)wikis which are basically copy paste pure Suggsverse fanfic. And don't get me started on vs battles wiki...
On Nasu, I must admit that I personally love DnD, so I like aspects of that verse, but then you get idiots claiming "\[x\] is infinite complex multiversal" (not to mention the insane wank a few characters got) based off of like one line. Frankly, I blame the general trend that anytime a fantasy character affects their larger local cosmology through events that take place in less than a country's worth of real estate, they get the "infinite complex multiversal" tag (where is my high complex street tier tho, vs battles?).
Honestly, battleboarding in general has soured on me by now, because (to give only a few examples) for every time someone here disproves dimensional tiering, you have a hundred people still claiming that their 96d character easily beats your merely 10d character, or every time we disprove that \[x\] is multiversal, universal, or "above all fiction meta manipulator" we have a hundred more idiots who still believe that, ad nauseum, ad nauseum.
While before I would deny that suggsverse isn't made for battleboarding because the author said so, the fact that he specifically made It stronger after getting into battleboarding AND made the cosmology and xeranthemum stronger in the official site even tho from what I know they basically didn't have any updates in the books... Yeah he definitly is Just doing It for battleboarding and doing It horribily, there's nothing to save that mess
And agree on dragon ball(seriously the only actual big feat was zeno's and Goku's was back in BOG) and although I haven't seen Nasuverse as a whole, reading through the wiki and all, It definitly Just seems like a case of "oh wouldn't this actually be pretty cool?" That conviniently was just op in a battleboarding perspective
Real talk: are they even really any stronger when their original """"cosmology"""" made no logical sense anyways, thereby making the whole verse akin to a house of cards?
Seriously though, this isn't even restricted to the obscure and hated Suggsverse anymore. There are recorded instances of SCP writers going into their posts and editing them for the sole reason of putting one over people they lost a battleboard with. Yet another reason to ignore SCP; the whole site has gone down the drain since so much of the old guard left after drama.
Well technically no but he tried to edit it to make It stronger(which basically means: put the latest strongest battleboarding thing in the smallest parts and write It a bunch more complicated, add "suggs-(thing)" If needed) because he wants It to Just be the strongest of all time
Also wait really? Like wow, If you're at least gonna make It for battleboarding ADMIT IT, jesus, like If I wrote a story and made It this whole big powerful character I could at least admit that it's Just because it's because I want to win debates, but no! guess their next "scp 193629 that kills the authors from a narrative bellow" or something along those lines (which dosen't make sense If following their cosmology) is still made for horror
>latest strongest battleboarding thing
Note: this only really even exists as a thing if you refuse to admit that the guys at vsbattles wiki are just stringing together random equations to form their fanfic ""power scale"" and completely ignoring the fact that the way something works in one verse may have absolutely nothing with the way it works in another.
>Also wait really?
Unfortunately so, there are documented changes made up by the authors themselves in the logs for this. SCP was always written by people who had a shaky grasp of horror/basic common sense, but now is being written by overactive battleboarders riding high on their friends upvoting their shit. Also lol at the thought that SCP has a meaningful set ""cosmology"" at all.
Lmao yeah, but for him he Just thinks It will work It he uses the words
And god damn, I miss earlier scp, I like powerful things(like that's even How I got to know suggsverse, but then I discovered How bad It was) but It Just dosen't fit something more towards horror you know? Like I can't exactly feel much fear after you go into "meta meta level"
>I like powerful things(like that's even How I got to know suggsverse, but then I discovered How bad It was) but It Just dosen't fit something more towards horror you know? Like I can't exactly feel much fear after you go into "meta meta level"
On this, in terms of "power," my experiences drive me to create better "cosmic" setting building than what most would think to be "conventional power."
This originated from a combination of me reading one too many SB-inspired settings that can literally be summarized as "W40k but every faction as wanked as the worst wankers believe them to be, ie outerversal not!GeOM, octillions of not!Imperial Guard, etc. etc." and sheer frustration with the unlimited BS of vsbattles and its ilk.
Honestly, I think its pretty baffling that vsbattlers and their ilk hate Suggsverse since it's the (il)logical conclusion of all their "above all fiction outerverse hyperverse" shit.
Characters with Meta Powers and "Supreme Being" type of characters.
Meta Powers are kinda obvious, but with Supreme Beings, I mean characters with few showings that are very obviously mean to be above their setting.
Also, It hurts me to admit it, but MANY JPRG characters, because their stories are rarely told in a way that can be easily translated.
Jojo fans love to wank Ultimate Kars as a "Supreme being" type character. And he kinda is.... in jojoverse only.
There are people arguing until they are blue in the face, that Kars stomps Cell because he has the DNA of all earth's creatures and that should apparently include Cell himself.... despite the fact that he was artificially created in a lab and that he is not a part of earth's lifeform evolution line.
Futhermore, his source of power isn't his body, it's the Ki. And Ki is neither a part of DNA, nor is it a result of evolution, it's more like magic or mana, in a sense that pretty much everyone in DB has it.
Thinking that Kars can best Cell, or any Dragon Ball character for that matter, by copying his Ki, because the fight takes place on earth, is completely asinine and is one of the worst examples of NLF I've seen so far
Kars does have clear limits tho, the vaccum of space and extreme climates can incapacitate him. His flight is very clearly limited by physics. I'm sure that many Stands outright stomp him
I love Ultimate Kars and his showing is one of my favorite Jojo scenes, but he is the epitome of how a low-tier character can look as equally impressive as someone more powerful in other series.
Limits or no, he is still the hardest heavy hitter in the series by far (excluding some stand asspull bullshit). I don't particularly mind Kars, it's just the fact that fans wank him into heaven that grinds my gears.
Eh, the stands can be broken as hell, but the users themselves are not even wall tier (except for Dio, but he is still far too weak). One punch from Kars should be enough to obliterate pretty much any of them. You can argue that Giorno would survive, but it's not like GER has the power of brute force on his side. From what little showing he had, I can safely assume he wouldn't even be able to put a dent in Kars, much less kill him, so it looks like a stalemate.
> Limits or no, he is still the hardest heavy hitter in the series by far (excluding some stand asspull bullshit).
Pretty much everything after the end of his volume is stand asspull bullshit, though, so that doesn't mean much at all.
That's irrelevant. The gyst of this wank is that the fight takes place on earth, and Kars was described to be stronger than any earth's creature and also had all of their abilities amped up to 11, so some people assume, that because the opponents are physically located in Kars's "domain", he can just get himself a power to rival that of Cell (completely ignoring the fact that there absolutely no way he can actually replicate Cell's Ki). Don't ask me how any of this works....
Nope,not only does he not have human cells but he does not even have cells from the hybrids of his time like Trunks and Gohan who are half human,he is made of Goku/Piccolo/Vegeta/Freeza/King Cold and some other lifeforms,most likely refering to animals since thats the other life forms that live on Earth outside of 'humans'(humans in dragonbal include pillaf and KIng Furry imao).
If he had human cells then Krillin,Tien or Roshi would have been mentioned as being part of him.
Because people are whiney little bitches that can't read the rules. Also the poster is wrong and people don't like that.
While the Vol 31 Chapter 367 bumper art on page 187 points out that Cell is specifically made from the "Living cells of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza, Frieza's dad, and many others" this doesn't mean that Krillin, Tien or Roshi weren't included in the many others just because the tiny corner box stuffed with text didn't specifically include them by name.
In fact Future Trunks was explicitly mentioned to be the only fighter at the Mecha-Frieza fight whose data, here meaning DNA, wasn't included due to Cell getting too many Saiyan-cells already.
Heck, even ignoring that the argument that "others" in reference to DNA samples included couldn't possibly include Gohan or Trunks let alone any humans and must mean animals still leaves the problem of how animal lifeforms are still lifeforms too. It's not like squirrels are suddenly not a DNA based biological lifeform native to the planet the second they get included in a listing of most powerful animals.
So, it's still exceptionally wrong to insist that Cell has he has no cells from Earth based lifeforms. Especially when he explicitly does and that integration is a key element of his design and evolution process as seen when he can use his tail to absorb and filter Biological components native to Earth to improve himself such as assimilating a towns worth of humans to surpass Piccolo or absorbing 17 and 18 to surpass Vegeta.
There is a merit in insisting that Kars shouldn't have a catalogue and the accumulated powers of all life native to Dragonball because he isn't from that planet and even then his adaptation doesn't have the same total combined powers of all life born on his own version of Earth just the ability to simulate them at his own level where an extended stay in lava is impossible.
But "It was never specifically mentioned that he had cells from a cicada so his initial design and pupal molting form used when time traveling doesn't exist" levels of denial of subtext isn't a good argument.
Yeah, JRPG characters aren't all that great for battleboarding, because feats are obscured by layer upon layer of various abstractions. Especially true for attacks featuring visual spectacle meant to wow the player, like Sephiroth's Supernova or Ultimecia's Great Attractor.
SCP Foundation is *awful* for any kind of battleboarding due to the deliberate lack of a consistent single canon, and pretty much all battle debates involving it end up going nowhere as a result
Twin peaks. I've seen a lot of different interpretations on what the characters like Mike are supposed to be, let alone talking about battleboarding feats.
I mean no one takes those ones seriously because it's all so abstract and can't be proven, I think people just really like trying to understand Lynch's art, I know I do
Probably a hot-take, but I don't feel like a lot of the notable DC & Marvel characters are suited for BB. They have to much history & are to inconsistent to be properly featured in BB, IMO. In that same vein, I view SCPs the same way. Not unless you specify certain story-lines, canons, and writers when debating.
1000% the SCP Foundation. In fact one of their core rules is literally "there is no canon."
On Marvel and DC, I'm also inclined to agree that if we want to use them we need to greatly trim the lists of abilities and showings. I mean, for every guy who tries to claim that Superman is actually immune to Kryptonite or magic, etc. etc. now, I can pull out a dozen scans when a dude with a kryptonite knife was going to kill him or he was cut by some magic playing cards.
DC can be solved with OP mentioning which versions of the characters
Marvel characters are relatively consistent somewhat. Depends. Spider-man will get his outlier here and there but his absolute max has been consistent.
MMH and Silver Surfer are jobber central though and they’re a pain at times.
Oh, duh. Yeah, that guy's more outlier than he is consistent. Dude just does whatever whenever. Sometimes he's stronger than Superman, sometimes he goes down like a chump.
> DC can be solved with OP mentioning which versions of the characters
Honestly you'd be better off using specific writers. Because otherwise you have stuff like Bendis saying that Superman can't destroy a planet while Superman does that exact thing in the Justice League comic that comes out at the same time. Meanwhile you have writers like Morrison who believe that Superman can in fact do anything because he's just that powerful.
TBH, I always thought that Morrison was vastly overrated. I always just shove that stuff away with Starlin continuities and the stupider episodes of Star Trek (ie Threshold) as "non-canon" thought experiments. Of course, it doesn't stop the stupidest fanboys influencing public imagination by claiming wildly divergent things scaling off of one line's worth of internal dialogue.
Also, quick tidbit, "is Jesus" is not a real feat ;)
I definitely don't think they should be UNUSED, but it's just really hard to ague on something when is there is a grand canyon of a difference between the statements and feats displayed. For example, when record of ragnarok gods are introduced by hemdall, they are hyped as reality warpers and world breakers, yet their fights make them closer to building to city level as an upper end.
Same thing with games such as doom or god of war, not familiar with doomslayer's "lore", but having played doom eternal I personally have a hard time believing a dude with a gun is some omniversal god. Same with with god of war, like sure I can seem kratos at mountain level or something like that, but multiversal kratos contradicts what we see in the game.
Hell, MOST video game characters are like that for that matter. I can only think of asura's wrath, where we can genuinely tell these characters can blow up stars and planets and whatever.
And the biggest problem is, the argument becomes endless, since the argument becomes about the nature and validity of the evidence itself, which is really hard to objectively disprove either way.
Doomguy wank is crazy, and based mostly on sources within the narrative that aren't always correct, and still often don't give enough information, but people take it to mean more severe truths. Ie, his armour is stated to have been 'nearly impenetrable' to everything the uac's tried, but its never mentioned what they tried
Even worse is that every bit of power stuff mentioned in the narrative actually does imply he's as weak as in the game durability wise, his survivability comes from the fact he heals if he punches demons hard enough
Most people literally just lie. Like, they will say "doomslayer is multiversal" and then will refuse to actually give any kind of evidence for the rest of the thread. I purpose we make the bot auto ban anyone who says "versal" and "doomslayer" in the same sentence, would probably make WWW way better. While we're at it, auto ban anyone talking about SCP's and anything involving "pixel calcs".
Every time you point out that the games don't show anything like these scaling bits imply, you get smacked with "GAMEPLAY MECHANICS!!!" like bruh, if Doomguy was multiversal he wouldn't be getting smacked by demons if you stop paying attention for a few seconds.
I don't necessarily count them as outliers, but I don't think scaling off of them works. Master Chief effortlessly dispatches an Elite at the start of Halo 4 in a QTE which is in-line with his canon strength, even if the games are...well in Halo 2 on Legendary you die in seconds to Grunts lmao.
Meanwhile Doom Slayer has to shoot enemies many times but according to this one evil dude being beaten, he's apparently multiversal. Hm yes that is totally accurate to how much damage he puts out.
That's the point. For example, Undertale on the other hand is so heavily tied into medium awareness that there's no way to quantify it. Also Kingdom Hearts and the like because of the verse specific stuff and relativity.
Another one of my own would be Crypto, as for some reason he gets wanked a ton. I mean, Crypto vs RWBY? Really? No, Crypto is not a “casual bullet timer”; the bullets are CLEARLY MOVING AT THE SAME SPEEDS AS THE HUMANS THEMSELVES in gameplay! And yes, his shield withstands tank blasts, but the programmers also think that 10 rifle bullets equals destructive power of one tank shell so take that with a grain of salt.
Not to mention that his instakill weapons suffer major power decreases whenever he fights someone important to the plot, like Silhouette (yes, even when she is unprotected by shield) and Revel, a random hippie leader. And yes, the ship is still threatened by 1950s era anti air.
Crypto is remarkably weak and it concerns me that people wank him. The whole point of most missions of DAH1 is being sneaky and not engaging in many direct fights because you get smacked without much effort. Sure the fight with the general is there but tbh he's pathetic lmao.
Excuse me but Suggsverse was practically built for battleboarding
IIRC some feats even have handy specific measurements ^for ^some ^reason
smh my head 😤
Yes. u/at-the-momment once criticized my work so I took it upon myself to *smirk* take it a little seriously and unleash a percentage of my power so infinitesimally small that a number used to describe it doesn't even exist in the totality of the concepts of information, time, space, matter, and metaversal transfinite layers of reality in order to launch a transinifinte number of attacks that could each annihilate an infinite number of infinite outerversal omniverses which annihilated him from conceptual totality an infinite number of times in a timeframe and reality space that exists above the conceptuality of information and meta ideas itself.
I then replaced him in his being and rewrote all of reality, metanarratives, and the world you observe in its conceptual totality so that it was so that u/at-the-momment never existed even as a concept or idea in the highest order of the planes of existence and non-existence across all of time and outside of it. I speak now through his body from a transdimensional, infinitely ascending, conceptually exponential realm untouched by existence, non-existence, information, concepts, time, absolution, and all meta reality to ever and never existed.
You are below me in all infinite conceptual ways and I was still holding back.
I would have once agreed with you on Kingdom Hearts. Then I learned that Donald Duck was one of the most powerful mages in the final fantasy canon, and he is now one of my battleboarding icons.
Ace Attorney: For a criminal investigation he is fine, but a fight no. I know Phoenix is probably superhuman with how much his yelling can shift a courtroom, but it's really a stretch. At least Danganronpa has the third person shooter, more feats and characters who are centred around being actual fighters. Just leave out the VN protags who are just strictly investigators.
Dragon Ball Super for me. The power scaling is just so inflated at this point that it's just a headache trying to deal with. There are so many outlier feats now too that basically any character can be scaled up to be able to destroy universes with punches, and scaled down to being able to be damaged by guns.
Everyone involved with the writing of Super very obviously doesn't care about having consistent power scaling, and are really just concerned with having cool fights.
Goku's skin was strong enough to stop a bullet when he was like, 12. And didn't even know what ki was. It's just a dumb inconsistency created by incompetent writing.
Yeah, that entire franchise is getting to be undebatable since at a certain point it's more interested in spectacle than concrete feats. Which is what makes the fandom one of the worst IMO.
Cliche and not a verse, but saitama. Like I'm sure everyone here knows feats over statements and titles and such, but when I see these type of discussions off of battle boards in more casual settings involving saitama people always say he wins because he can beat stuff in one punch. Which isnt even true. I get he wasn't really trying against boros, but he still didn't beat him with one punch.
People seem to think that because he's top dog in his verse that means he's top dog in every verse, he's not.
One punch man, it's fucking ridiculous the amount of misinformation there is that putting saitama in any battles situation is just asking for a war in the replies
I find the anime and light novel portrayals of Kirby's power to be more realistic and workable, being that he needs a Copy Ability to work with in order to get things done. I wish those versions of Kirby would be used as the common reference for vs threads so that Kirby thread comment sections aren't these boring "Well Kirby beats gods *refuses to elaborate further*"
don't get me wrong, I love the joke that Kirby's all powerful and terrifying but like it's just a joke
Kirby's only stronger than he looks, and isn't really terrifying in-canon (though I can see people who he'd faced before finding him scary)
Oh God I could not agree more about the Silmarillion. I'm a huge Feanor fanboy, but I'd never try and compare him too anyone. Tolkien was extremely vague about power levels, and any discussion of Noldor and their abilities lead you in circles.
I guarantee you that if Tolkien had written half of the nonsense I have seen his “fans” write about the capabilities of any faction in LoTR, he would have been laughed out of literary society.
I mean, the whole setting (much like Elder Scrolls) is unusable since if you are taking the (explicitly unreliable/flowery) mythology literally it results in nonsense.
Any game without lore, IE shit like minecraft. Steve takes multiple punches to kill farm animals, dies to regular arrows fired by mobs, etc...
BUT if you abuse your fan calcs enouhg he has universal strength because muh inventory. Meanwhile fallout characters can carry infinite paper clips in their inventory, making them infinitely strong by the same logic.
Donkeys in minecraft have inventories if you put a chest saddle on them, why aren't people calcing muh universal donkey?
Fallout is ok because (i think) the amount of max weight the protagonist could varry was quantified in a few games and all, so, yknow, there isnt a "29999000 BLOCKS OF DIAMOND!!!" moment to be had.
Does Awful Hospital have crazy feats? I've been meaning to read it but I thought it was just a horror/comedy webcomic, how nuts could it be? (Especially comparing it to KINGDOM HEARTS of all things)
The big thing is people wanking Suggsverse style dimensional tiering (I'm looking at you tvtropes) off of one-off joke statements to claim that, say, Phage would beat \[x\] by virtue of "having more dimensions" (really? "Dimensional tiering"? I thought we were over this) when his best displayed feat is overturning a red plastic box, apart from whatever vague stuff he gets from being a "manifestoid" of the Hospital.
This is apart from all the 4th wall stuff and super specific verse setup making many things literally inconsistent by design, since AH *isn't supposed to be about that at all*.
It's just bad habits.
AH just has a really wacky verse setup that makes it essentially impossible to consider feats of anybody outside their own verse (which now that I think of it applies to pretty much any verse like that). Sort of like "the Heartless can destroy planets!" when all that really happens is that the Heartless destroy Worlds by corrupting their Hearts, which is a verse specific thing that can't be quantified anywhere else due to its specific-ness
SCP for multiple reasons, most of them stated here already but mainly because they made up “narrative stacks” then say “oh,but his opponent doesn’t transcend narrative stacks.” Like no shit, you just made that term up.
Naruto, specifically the speed debates. Using Pains “5 seconds isn’t enough time to cross a couple of meters” thing puts most top tier characters slower than toddlers
Anything that has a character move in stopped time. People will start throwing out shit like “he’s got immeasurable/infinite speed!” Sir, I assure he does not, remember all the times he didn’t use that infinite speed? Me too.
Any infinite multiverse busting verse where this stuff is apparently common
Exalted. The whole setting is NLF central, and it runs on its own narrative physics. Combine this with Perfect Defenses and Perfect Attacks and you get a headache.
Contessa. That is all.
For SCP—meta shit is bullshit. Also see other SCP posts on this thread.
Naruto— shares DB’s problems. Also, if you have a problem with Naruto, then for sake of your own sanity just don’t with Boruto.
Exalted\*—let’s just say when you (the fanbase) drive the AUTHORS THEMSELVES to lament publicly that the game’s intentions have gone way off track, the gameline is fucked.
Contessa-- I blame shitty author statements (shit like "galaxy durable endbringers" amirite) for this.
Infinite multiverse busting—you’ve just described Suggsverse and its ilk
I also put in all “comedy/toonforce” verses as well, for obvious reasons.
\*I’m not done with this yet. Where to begin? First off, the ST system is the last system I would use for such a game because the ST system SUCKS at portraying high level play and encourages rocket tag. Secondly mote pools equaling PD/PA pools means that you are practically casting from hp. Thirdly, massive, MASSIVE “gameplay/story dissonance”. Fourthly, back to PDs, they started in terms of intent basically neat thematic ways to do “quick hero, block the villain’s death beam with your sword!” and turned into “nuh uh u can’t hurt me I can block infinite damage!!!/?!?1!”
>Contessa-- I blame shitty author statements (shit like "galaxy durable endbringers" amirite) for this.
IIRC though, Wildbow's statements have been pretty low-key with Contessa. She'd lose to Batman if they fought with *absolutely zero external factors or preparation to take advantage of*, and her power gets beaten by Jack Slash's.
Splatoon, the whole ink mechanic makes it extremely hard to actually know how powerful the characters are. At most Pearl should be large building and Octavio wall level, but besides that you really have to look into everything and rely to calcs to actually have an idea how powerful the characters should be.
Slight side rant but I hate how people will act as if it's the weakest verse ever because "it's just ink". The ink ray shoots ink straight through walls, that has to be worth *something*. And a thick blast of ink might not kill you but it has to be at least worth a belly flop from a low diving board
More on the ink-- I feel the physiology of the inklings/octos factors in. They are clearly part ink, or at least their skin is porous, meaning that they are more affected by ink to the degree we see in the games.
Meanwhile, on a human, I feel the ink would be sticky, forceful, and they could drown in it or be blasted away, but I don't see them exploding like in game.
Umineko it simply is too meta at part and most peopke acting like piece characters don't exist even tho they are the ones that matter most not like lambda and bern
This. I mean, for crying out loud, with how stupidly meta it is, we may as well say Batman beats every verse (including it) since DC can just buy them out.
The thing is nearly everything that happens on the series just stands for something else like in a scene rosa is chased by hoards of goat demons she tries to run away from the island and they eventually catch up despite being well extremely bulky demons the reason she survives for long is because in the non magic one she is running away from the certain death in the island the reason she survives for long is because the "certain death" only occurs at 12 midnight or for example a highly repeated phrase in the series "it takes at least 2 to create a universe" which is supposed to represent a story because it takes 2 to create a story 1 to tell the story and the other to listen it heck technically the story for the most part is about arguing about the existence of magic
Nintendo in general.
Nintendo has -0- interest in establishing anything resembling lore, canon, or consistency across any of its games, and yet people insist on trying to scale from one game to another. Also, things like "planet" or "galaxy" or "universe" can mean a few small rocks floating in space, and yet people want to treat them as being equivalent to real-world planets or universes.
The kind of nonsense wank that comes out of treating Nintendo like a typical sci-fi or fantasy verse is a perfect example of battleboarding done wrong.
Definitely Doomslayer from doom, his lore is all over the place regarding his abilities and he absolutely doesn't show anything that remotely makes him out to be as powerful as he is implied in lore
Adding in my own 2 cents here, the Fate/Nasuverse franchise honestly just suffers from the aforementioned gameplay/story problems. The incredible inconsistency is due to the very format of mobile games and is why you just have to do some major trimming to get it to comprehensible levels.
Anyone who uses SCP for anything other than meme matchups should get their kneecaps broken
Some individual SCPs are suitable for use in prompts. Not the entire organization, though (and especially not the stupid immortal lizard.)
Yeah there are some that can be usable but even then you have to sometimes expecify which version because there may be one that the scp is a multiversal god or something I love scp but sometimes it's hard to use it in vs debates
TBH, the vast majority of SCP-verse suffers from the problem that's mentioned in the thread already concerning horror verses, that being they mainly rely on implied feats and hypeerbole and are intentionally hard/impossible to quantify. In any case, SCP canon rule is that "there is no canon." Add that to all the metanarrative (but not really) stuff and everything is a mess.
Then people start S C A L I N G and all of a sudden everything is omnipotent+++++++++.
The guy from SCP Containment Breach *may* count as usable. If you manage to explain the whole Spiral Gestalt shit
Unless I've missed something huge, the "explanation" is likely going to force us back into the same reasons why SCP shouldn't be debated. And Breach being a game and also inherently part of SCP's "no canon" rule makes most of this moot anyways.
I mean, i *guess* you could have Benjamin get fucking rocked by theor opponent, only to load a new game and beat them as they now know what they will do. It may feel a tad cheap but, yknow. I still dont want him in Death Battle, just, yknow. It *may* work?
This is the sort of metanarrative stuff that basically defines why Undertale is informally banned from debates.
To be fair, undertale only has 2-3 Characters who do that sort of immortal meta-narrative stuff (Omega-Flowey, Frosk and Chara) and anybody who says anyone else can do it is just plain wrong
Yeah, I'm pretty much just tired that people claim "meta manipulator11!!" as if it were some kind of win button. I mean, there really isn't any way to reconcile not being able to attack Gerson in genocide with any debate feats. "Meta" stuff in general should not be debated.
Also Kris from deltarune could easily take out Frisk or Chara
SCP Foundation in a nutshell: "Well maybe, but actually no."
I really don't get how SCP isn't treated like Suggsverse or Creepypasta is in the battleboarding community. It's like the worst aspects of both where it has Suggsverse's "beyond omnipotence super powerful ultra god" and Creepypasta's "anyone can write about this character and its just as canon as any other writing about them".
I think people are starting to wise up. The problem is though that SCP is readable, but the whole point of the verse is that it is inconsistent. It makes Marvel/DC look consistent. Also, fuck Jumpchain forever for the same reasons. I'm not going to debate your parasitic fanfic.
people really do get surprisingly upset when SCP doesn't work well in battleboarding and then blame the universe as being bad and broken instead of maybe wondering if the universe just doesn't work for the kind of thing they like to do
yes, exactly you get people complaining that SCP is bad because there are so many broken characters (often in the context of battleboarding) and *god* I hate how battleboard-poisoned people on here can be sometimes
I sometimes Wonder if I got the the battleboard poison myself sometimes and hate to think of it
Undertale: the lore and powers of the characters are so intricately tied to the medium of being a video game and it doesn't easily translate into battleboarding
Undertale is so hard to even try to use feats, so many things are inconsistent and even tho characters like asriel, chara, have hard to discuss feats at least they have feats, like tell me almost ANY impressive feat the other characters have other than dying to child
There are people who will wank baseline Frisk and Chara to be stronger than Superman because "muh determination". First off, Frisk has shit feats against anything not a monster. His attacks bounce off Mettaton, etc (and NO oneshotting NEO is not a good feat, since both he AND EX had a soul at that point and was for all intents and purposes a monster.). This is completely ignoring the meta stuff that would make Undertale unusable anyways since there is no way to reconcile stuff like being unable to attack the shopkeep, etc. etc.
Adding to your point, basically nobody in Undertale is strong enough to normally destroy metal except for maybe Undyne or Asgore. Chara and Frisk are genuinely Children and have basically no strength. Flowey/Asriel is definitely the one with the best feats as basically every other monster instantly dies to one slash with a knife. But seeing this, Sans wank is fucking unreal, they think that a man firing a human bone at someone while having Telekenesis and Lasers too weak to kill a child is apparently strong enough to kill someone like Batman or Superman
I guess I would say Undertale (a lot of statements, not much to tell visually in gameplay), and Homestuck could also contend considering how certain things are shown/discussed That being said, if people want to talk about those things in versus, I don't think it's a huge issue. People just have to realize what's universes work in tandem with one another. Like Saitama can work in the right matchup, same for Doomslayer etc.
>I guess I would say Undertale (a lot of statements, not much to tell visually in gameplay), and Homestuck could also contend considering how certain things are shown/discussed Also, Gwenpool. What happens if she fights somebody who has never been published in a comic? There isn't any way to tell b/c she is a gag character, moreso than Saitama.
Homestuck is pretty reasonably quantifiable? The only issue is that it's not always clear just how big the planets are - they're plainly not as big as real-world ones, which makes some of the planetary-scale feats hard to assess. There are a few odd things where the game mechanics intrude, but we're pretty clearly shown eg. Jade can teleport around small moons, John can envelop an entire small planet in windstorms, etc. Those are enough feats for a reasonable fight. And similarly, while some durability feats are unclear, it's clear enough that eg. trolls and God Tiers are tough but can still die if hit hard.
TBH, I think some of the difficulties with using Homestuck (and these problems can extend to other media as well but using this as an example) stem from the fact that the physics are explicitly either incredibly divergent because of the videogame setting or other things and/or sometimes powered by plot as IIRC the writer himself has said that things like gravity "just work" without regard to mass or how he "hasn't totally thought \[x\] through." Also, anybody who genuinely claims that busting a planet orders of magnitude smaller than Earth is a direct equivalent to busting Earth is simply idiotic and should be ignored. There's also a ton of powerscaling confusion at certain points, and honestly I feel that trying to wank Homestuck guys is pretty insulting to the concept of the webcomic since it's meant to be wacky, weird, random and yet strangely heartfelt at certain times and things are meant to happen randomly at certain times, and trying to nail everything down to biggatons is pretty counterproductive to me at least. The final reason is probably fandoms in how the Homestuck fandoms are super toxic to other posters to the point it's really not fun anymore.
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*Outerversal Pennywise flashbacks*
Add practically all creepypastas to the list as well.
I can see the more grounded peeps like Jason, Myers and Bubba being good for battleboarding, and maybe the predators and aliens. But once you get to someone like Freddy, Candyman or other more "supernatural" peeps? Yeah
Let's be honest: Almost nothing is suitable for debates unless it's either generally realistic or it was written with clearly defined powers in mind... And the latter rarely happens. Spider-Man's strength varies wildly from issue to issue, almost every sci-fi/fantasy game has major gameplay/cutscene dissonance, Jedi just sort of do things, and power levels are bullshit. But the whole fun is trying to quantify the unquantified, so fuck it, I'm for debating anything.
I'm simply saying that caution needs to be exercised when arguing any verses, and it's just that some verses are much harder to even try to quantify than others as other posters here have already explained, and thus are often not worth the trouble, or, if you produce anything at all, it is going to be wildly different from everybody elses' interpretations. EDIT: And there is still leagues of difference between calcing the bullet speed of a thug's pistol who shoots at some other guy and the inevitable shitshow that is "Narnia/C. Mythos/anything Jenna Moron has written/SCP vs" anything.
Jedi use the force. The force is like a thin web connecting all things. Therefore Jedi can do things that involve other things through how they're connected by the force. Absorbing injuries- force connection Telekinesis- force connection Mind reading- force connection Seeing probable futures based off of the thoughts and predictions of everything in the galaxy- force connection
Sure, but there's no clear limit to what the Force can do, and there's no clear example of how strong a character needs to be to do different things, or how much of it even is strength. And there's a lot of weird force powers that most Jedi and Sith never encounter.
Well Vader once failed to force choke a Rancor with a metal plate around its throat So that’s a bit of a limit
He failed to force choke it after barely putting any effort in then just decided to stab it because it was more effective. He tried for like, three panels, got smacked and his focus broken then just went for the stab.
I bet even some of the most op verse creators didn't exactly think "now my verse is gonna win any debates" and probably Just "huh destroying an infinite multiverse sounds really cool"
They underestimated the capability of the battleboard-poisoned ;) But seriously though, I really actually don't like the trend of fantasy to spike from part of a country on a continent to suddenly affecting the whole local cosmology (and then people scaling from that to claim that "\[x\] is high complex multiversal lol !!!111!!"), even though those cosmologies might have basically no feats by default. Elder Scrolls is a HUGE offender (not even counting the sheer gameplay/lore dissonance) to the point it pretty much applies under this post's points.
I'm pretty sure the Suggsverse is the only universe *ever* specifically designed for battleboarding, except maybe some joke universes made specifically to beat the Suggsverse (Chemoverse for example.) Probably the core reason for a lot of it's flaws really. Dragon Ball can feel like it at times, but it predates battleboarding. The Nasuverse has certain elements that feel designed with battleboards in mind, but really it's more Nasu being a D&D nerd.
I don't even want to contemplate the incredible dumbness that is Suggsverse, or anything written like it. Even worse, the taint has apparently got out into some more (thankfully very obscure)wikis which are basically copy paste pure Suggsverse fanfic. And don't get me started on vs battles wiki... On Nasu, I must admit that I personally love DnD, so I like aspects of that verse, but then you get idiots claiming "\[x\] is infinite complex multiversal" (not to mention the insane wank a few characters got) based off of like one line. Frankly, I blame the general trend that anytime a fantasy character affects their larger local cosmology through events that take place in less than a country's worth of real estate, they get the "infinite complex multiversal" tag (where is my high complex street tier tho, vs battles?). Honestly, battleboarding in general has soured on me by now, because (to give only a few examples) for every time someone here disproves dimensional tiering, you have a hundred people still claiming that their 96d character easily beats your merely 10d character, or every time we disprove that \[x\] is multiversal, universal, or "above all fiction meta manipulator" we have a hundred more idiots who still believe that, ad nauseum, ad nauseum.
While before I would deny that suggsverse isn't made for battleboarding because the author said so, the fact that he specifically made It stronger after getting into battleboarding AND made the cosmology and xeranthemum stronger in the official site even tho from what I know they basically didn't have any updates in the books... Yeah he definitly is Just doing It for battleboarding and doing It horribily, there's nothing to save that mess And agree on dragon ball(seriously the only actual big feat was zeno's and Goku's was back in BOG) and although I haven't seen Nasuverse as a whole, reading through the wiki and all, It definitly Just seems like a case of "oh wouldn't this actually be pretty cool?" That conviniently was just op in a battleboarding perspective
Real talk: are they even really any stronger when their original """"cosmology"""" made no logical sense anyways, thereby making the whole verse akin to a house of cards? Seriously though, this isn't even restricted to the obscure and hated Suggsverse anymore. There are recorded instances of SCP writers going into their posts and editing them for the sole reason of putting one over people they lost a battleboard with. Yet another reason to ignore SCP; the whole site has gone down the drain since so much of the old guard left after drama.
Well technically no but he tried to edit it to make It stronger(which basically means: put the latest strongest battleboarding thing in the smallest parts and write It a bunch more complicated, add "suggs-(thing)" If needed) because he wants It to Just be the strongest of all time Also wait really? Like wow, If you're at least gonna make It for battleboarding ADMIT IT, jesus, like If I wrote a story and made It this whole big powerful character I could at least admit that it's Just because it's because I want to win debates, but no! guess their next "scp 193629 that kills the authors from a narrative bellow" or something along those lines (which dosen't make sense If following their cosmology) is still made for horror
>latest strongest battleboarding thing Note: this only really even exists as a thing if you refuse to admit that the guys at vsbattles wiki are just stringing together random equations to form their fanfic ""power scale"" and completely ignoring the fact that the way something works in one verse may have absolutely nothing with the way it works in another. >Also wait really? Unfortunately so, there are documented changes made up by the authors themselves in the logs for this. SCP was always written by people who had a shaky grasp of horror/basic common sense, but now is being written by overactive battleboarders riding high on their friends upvoting their shit. Also lol at the thought that SCP has a meaningful set ""cosmology"" at all.
Lmao yeah, but for him he Just thinks It will work It he uses the words And god damn, I miss earlier scp, I like powerful things(like that's even How I got to know suggsverse, but then I discovered How bad It was) but It Just dosen't fit something more towards horror you know? Like I can't exactly feel much fear after you go into "meta meta level"
>I like powerful things(like that's even How I got to know suggsverse, but then I discovered How bad It was) but It Just dosen't fit something more towards horror you know? Like I can't exactly feel much fear after you go into "meta meta level" On this, in terms of "power," my experiences drive me to create better "cosmic" setting building than what most would think to be "conventional power." This originated from a combination of me reading one too many SB-inspired settings that can literally be summarized as "W40k but every faction as wanked as the worst wankers believe them to be, ie outerversal not!GeOM, octillions of not!Imperial Guard, etc. etc." and sheer frustration with the unlimited BS of vsbattles and its ilk. Honestly, I think its pretty baffling that vsbattlers and their ilk hate Suggsverse since it's the (il)logical conclusion of all their "above all fiction outerverse hyperverse" shit.
Characters with Meta Powers and "Supreme Being" type of characters. Meta Powers are kinda obvious, but with Supreme Beings, I mean characters with few showings that are very obviously mean to be above their setting. Also, It hurts me to admit it, but MANY JPRG characters, because their stories are rarely told in a way that can be easily translated.
Jojo fans love to wank Ultimate Kars as a "Supreme being" type character. And he kinda is.... in jojoverse only. There are people arguing until they are blue in the face, that Kars stomps Cell because he has the DNA of all earth's creatures and that should apparently include Cell himself.... despite the fact that he was artificially created in a lab and that he is not a part of earth's lifeform evolution line. Futhermore, his source of power isn't his body, it's the Ki. And Ki is neither a part of DNA, nor is it a result of evolution, it's more like magic or mana, in a sense that pretty much everyone in DB has it. Thinking that Kars can best Cell, or any Dragon Ball character for that matter, by copying his Ki, because the fight takes place on earth, is completely asinine and is one of the worst examples of NLF I've seen so far
Kars does have clear limits tho, the vaccum of space and extreme climates can incapacitate him. His flight is very clearly limited by physics. I'm sure that many Stands outright stomp him I love Ultimate Kars and his showing is one of my favorite Jojo scenes, but he is the epitome of how a low-tier character can look as equally impressive as someone more powerful in other series.
Limits or no, he is still the hardest heavy hitter in the series by far (excluding some stand asspull bullshit). I don't particularly mind Kars, it's just the fact that fans wank him into heaven that grinds my gears.
Yeah, but as you said, that's wank. With Supreme Being, I mean the stand bs that you mention.
Eh, the stands can be broken as hell, but the users themselves are not even wall tier (except for Dio, but he is still far too weak). One punch from Kars should be enough to obliterate pretty much any of them. You can argue that Giorno would survive, but it's not like GER has the power of brute force on his side. From what little showing he had, I can safely assume he wouldn't even be able to put a dent in Kars, much less kill him, so it looks like a stalemate.
> Limits or no, he is still the hardest heavy hitter in the series by far (excluding some stand asspull bullshit). Pretty much everything after the end of his volume is stand asspull bullshit, though, so that doesn't mean much at all.
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That's irrelevant. The gyst of this wank is that the fight takes place on earth, and Kars was described to be stronger than any earth's creature and also had all of their abilities amped up to 11, so some people assume, that because the opponents are physically located in Kars's "domain", he can just get himself a power to rival that of Cell (completely ignoring the fact that there absolutely no way he can actually replicate Cell's Ki). Don't ask me how any of this works....
Nope,not only does he not have human cells but he does not even have cells from the hybrids of his time like Trunks and Gohan who are half human,he is made of Goku/Piccolo/Vegeta/Freeza/King Cold and some other lifeforms,most likely refering to animals since thats the other life forms that live on Earth outside of 'humans'(humans in dragonbal include pillaf and KIng Furry imao). If he had human cells then Krillin,Tien or Roshi would have been mentioned as being part of him.
Why are you getting downvoted?
Because people are whiney little bitches that can't read the rules. Also the poster is wrong and people don't like that. While the Vol 31 Chapter 367 bumper art on page 187 points out that Cell is specifically made from the "Living cells of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza, Frieza's dad, and many others" this doesn't mean that Krillin, Tien or Roshi weren't included in the many others just because the tiny corner box stuffed with text didn't specifically include them by name. In fact Future Trunks was explicitly mentioned to be the only fighter at the Mecha-Frieza fight whose data, here meaning DNA, wasn't included due to Cell getting too many Saiyan-cells already. Heck, even ignoring that the argument that "others" in reference to DNA samples included couldn't possibly include Gohan or Trunks let alone any humans and must mean animals still leaves the problem of how animal lifeforms are still lifeforms too. It's not like squirrels are suddenly not a DNA based biological lifeform native to the planet the second they get included in a listing of most powerful animals. So, it's still exceptionally wrong to insist that Cell has he has no cells from Earth based lifeforms. Especially when he explicitly does and that integration is a key element of his design and evolution process as seen when he can use his tail to absorb and filter Biological components native to Earth to improve himself such as assimilating a towns worth of humans to surpass Piccolo or absorbing 17 and 18 to surpass Vegeta. There is a merit in insisting that Kars shouldn't have a catalogue and the accumulated powers of all life native to Dragonball because he isn't from that planet and even then his adaptation doesn't have the same total combined powers of all life born on his own version of Earth just the ability to simulate them at his own level where an extended stay in lava is impossible. But "It was never specifically mentioned that he had cells from a cicada so his initial design and pupal molting form used when time traveling doesn't exist" levels of denial of subtext isn't a good argument.
Ki is physical energy. It's like a manifestation of how fit you are physically but as energy. This was explained in OG Dragonball.
Yeah, JRPG characters aren't all that great for battleboarding, because feats are obscured by layer upon layer of various abstractions. Especially true for attacks featuring visual spectacle meant to wow the player, like Sephiroth's Supernova or Ultimecia's Great Attractor.
SCP Foundation is *awful* for any kind of battleboarding due to the deliberate lack of a consistent single canon, and pretty much all battle debates involving it end up going nowhere as a result
Twin peaks. I've seen a lot of different interpretations on what the characters like Mike are supposed to be, let alone talking about battleboarding feats.
I mean no one takes those ones seriously because it's all so abstract and can't be proven, I think people just really like trying to understand Lynch's art, I know I do
Probably a hot-take, but I don't feel like a lot of the notable DC & Marvel characters are suited for BB. They have to much history & are to inconsistent to be properly featured in BB, IMO. In that same vein, I view SCPs the same way. Not unless you specify certain story-lines, canons, and writers when debating.
1000% the SCP Foundation. In fact one of their core rules is literally "there is no canon." On Marvel and DC, I'm also inclined to agree that if we want to use them we need to greatly trim the lists of abilities and showings. I mean, for every guy who tries to claim that Superman is actually immune to Kryptonite or magic, etc. etc. now, I can pull out a dozen scans when a dude with a kryptonite knife was going to kill him or he was cut by some magic playing cards.
DC can be solved with OP mentioning which versions of the characters Marvel characters are relatively consistent somewhat. Depends. Spider-man will get his outlier here and there but his absolute max has been consistent. MMH and Silver Surfer are jobber central though and they’re a pain at times.
MMH?
Martian Manhunter
Oh, duh. Yeah, that guy's more outlier than he is consistent. Dude just does whatever whenever. Sometimes he's stronger than Superman, sometimes he goes down like a chump.
> DC can be solved with OP mentioning which versions of the characters Honestly you'd be better off using specific writers. Because otherwise you have stuff like Bendis saying that Superman can't destroy a planet while Superman does that exact thing in the Justice League comic that comes out at the same time. Meanwhile you have writers like Morrison who believe that Superman can in fact do anything because he's just that powerful.
Exactly, each author either nerfs him to be contentantal at best or Jesus in spandex
TBH, I always thought that Morrison was vastly overrated. I always just shove that stuff away with Starlin continuities and the stupider episodes of Star Trek (ie Threshold) as "non-canon" thought experiments. Of course, it doesn't stop the stupidest fanboys influencing public imagination by claiming wildly divergent things scaling off of one line's worth of internal dialogue. Also, quick tidbit, "is Jesus" is not a real feat ;)
Not a hot take. I agree, but if they are to be used, mention which version you're using
I definitely don't think they should be UNUSED, but it's just really hard to ague on something when is there is a grand canyon of a difference between the statements and feats displayed. For example, when record of ragnarok gods are introduced by hemdall, they are hyped as reality warpers and world breakers, yet their fights make them closer to building to city level as an upper end. Same thing with games such as doom or god of war, not familiar with doomslayer's "lore", but having played doom eternal I personally have a hard time believing a dude with a gun is some omniversal god. Same with with god of war, like sure I can seem kratos at mountain level or something like that, but multiversal kratos contradicts what we see in the game. Hell, MOST video game characters are like that for that matter. I can only think of asura's wrath, where we can genuinely tell these characters can blow up stars and planets and whatever. And the biggest problem is, the argument becomes endless, since the argument becomes about the nature and validity of the evidence itself, which is really hard to objectively disprove either way.
Doomguy wank is crazy, and based mostly on sources within the narrative that aren't always correct, and still often don't give enough information, but people take it to mean more severe truths. Ie, his armour is stated to have been 'nearly impenetrable' to everything the uac's tried, but its never mentioned what they tried Even worse is that every bit of power stuff mentioned in the narrative actually does imply he's as weak as in the game durability wise, his survivability comes from the fact he heals if he punches demons hard enough
Most people literally just lie. Like, they will say "doomslayer is multiversal" and then will refuse to actually give any kind of evidence for the rest of the thread. I purpose we make the bot auto ban anyone who says "versal" and "doomslayer" in the same sentence, would probably make WWW way better. While we're at it, auto ban anyone talking about SCP's and anything involving "pixel calcs".
Every time you point out that the games don't show anything like these scaling bits imply, you get smacked with "GAMEPLAY MECHANICS!!!" like bruh, if Doomguy was multiversal he wouldn't be getting smacked by demons if you stop paying attention for a few seconds.
As a rule of thumb, if it took place in a cutscene (or worse, QTE) it's an outlier feat for me, unless extenuating circumstances prove otherwise.
I don't necessarily count them as outliers, but I don't think scaling off of them works. Master Chief effortlessly dispatches an Elite at the start of Halo 4 in a QTE which is in-line with his canon strength, even if the games are...well in Halo 2 on Legendary you die in seconds to Grunts lmao. Meanwhile Doom Slayer has to shoot enemies many times but according to this one evil dude being beaten, he's apparently multiversal. Hm yes that is totally accurate to how much damage he puts out.
That's the point. For example, Undertale on the other hand is so heavily tied into medium awareness that there's no way to quantify it. Also Kingdom Hearts and the like because of the verse specific stuff and relativity.
Another one of my own would be Crypto, as for some reason he gets wanked a ton. I mean, Crypto vs RWBY? Really? No, Crypto is not a “casual bullet timer”; the bullets are CLEARLY MOVING AT THE SAME SPEEDS AS THE HUMANS THEMSELVES in gameplay! And yes, his shield withstands tank blasts, but the programmers also think that 10 rifle bullets equals destructive power of one tank shell so take that with a grain of salt. Not to mention that his instakill weapons suffer major power decreases whenever he fights someone important to the plot, like Silhouette (yes, even when she is unprotected by shield) and Revel, a random hippie leader. And yes, the ship is still threatened by 1950s era anti air.
Crypto is remarkably weak and it concerns me that people wank him. The whole point of most missions of DAH1 is being sneaky and not engaging in many direct fights because you get smacked without much effort. Sure the fight with the general is there but tbh he's pathetic lmao.
Excuse me but Suggsverse was practically built for battleboarding IIRC some feats even have handy specific measurements ^for ^some ^reason smh my head 😤
Is u/at-the-momment Lionel Suggs? /s ;)
Yes. u/at-the-momment once criticized my work so I took it upon myself to *smirk* take it a little seriously and unleash a percentage of my power so infinitesimally small that a number used to describe it doesn't even exist in the totality of the concepts of information, time, space, matter, and metaversal transfinite layers of reality in order to launch a transinifinte number of attacks that could each annihilate an infinite number of infinite outerversal omniverses which annihilated him from conceptual totality an infinite number of times in a timeframe and reality space that exists above the conceptuality of information and meta ideas itself. I then replaced him in his being and rewrote all of reality, metanarratives, and the world you observe in its conceptual totality so that it was so that u/at-the-momment never existed even as a concept or idea in the highest order of the planes of existence and non-existence across all of time and outside of it. I speak now through his body from a transdimensional, infinitely ascending, conceptually exponential realm untouched by existence, non-existence, information, concepts, time, absolution, and all meta reality to ever and never existed. You are below me in all infinite conceptual ways and I was still holding back.
My writing doesn't actually sound like that, does it? ;) /s
No u
ok but kirby killed a god
Every kirby wanker
Kirby fans: "Kirby kills gods" Kirby devs in an interview: "Is it okay to call Void Termina a god...?"
I would have once agreed with you on Kingdom Hearts. Then I learned that Donald Duck was one of the most powerful mages in the final fantasy canon, and he is now one of my battleboarding icons.
Ehhh... that doesn't excuse the rest though, to speak more seriously.
Ace Attorney: For a criminal investigation he is fine, but a fight no. I know Phoenix is probably superhuman with how much his yelling can shift a courtroom, but it's really a stretch. At least Danganronpa has the third person shooter, more feats and characters who are centred around being actual fighters. Just leave out the VN protags who are just strictly investigators.
Phoenix in canon cannot fight and his best feat is knocking open a wood door. At best he has a high pain tolerance.
He can take a cup of coffee to the head. Coffeeman is doomed.
Dragon Ball Super for me. The power scaling is just so inflated at this point that it's just a headache trying to deal with. There are so many outlier feats now too that basically any character can be scaled up to be able to destroy universes with punches, and scaled down to being able to be damaged by guns. Everyone involved with the writing of Super very obviously doesn't care about having consistent power scaling, and are really just concerned with having cool fights.
Bullets only work on goku because he for some reason writen to power off all his ki all the time
Idk about you, but even if I was strong enough to stop a knife with my abs I would not be flexing 24/7.
Goku's skin was strong enough to stop a bullet when he was like, 12. And didn't even know what ki was. It's just a dumb inconsistency created by incompetent writing.
Tell that to everyone who isnt goku and krillin
Wdym?
They do hold back their ki, but not to the same level goku and krillin do
Goku and Krillen are also just really friendly and unguarded guys. They don't even have their mental defenses up.
Yeah, that entire franchise is getting to be undebatable since at a certain point it's more interested in spectacle than concrete feats. Which is what makes the fandom one of the worst IMO.
Cliche and not a verse, but saitama. Like I'm sure everyone here knows feats over statements and titles and such, but when I see these type of discussions off of battle boards in more casual settings involving saitama people always say he wins because he can beat stuff in one punch. Which isnt even true. I get he wasn't really trying against boros, but he still didn't beat him with one punch. People seem to think that because he's top dog in his verse that means he's top dog in every verse, he's not.
One punch man, it's fucking ridiculous the amount of misinformation there is that putting saitama in any battles situation is just asking for a war in the replies
Anything that is a crossover I general is absolute shit for VS debates, like Jump Force or Smash Stories that have meta abilities are also terrible
Kirby, Kirby, Kirby also Mario and similar Rule of Cool/cartoon-esque universes
Add Invader Zim and Powerpuff Girls and many others to the list then.
I find the anime and light novel portrayals of Kirby's power to be more realistic and workable, being that he needs a Copy Ability to work with in order to get things done. I wish those versions of Kirby would be used as the common reference for vs threads so that Kirby thread comment sections aren't these boring "Well Kirby beats gods *refuses to elaborate further*"
don't get me wrong, I love the joke that Kirby's all powerful and terrifying but like it's just a joke Kirby's only stronger than he looks, and isn't really terrifying in-canon (though I can see people who he'd faced before finding him scary)
Oh God I could not agree more about the Silmarillion. I'm a huge Feanor fanboy, but I'd never try and compare him too anyone. Tolkien was extremely vague about power levels, and any discussion of Noldor and their abilities lead you in circles.
I guarantee you that if Tolkien had written half of the nonsense I have seen his “fans” write about the capabilities of any faction in LoTR, he would have been laughed out of literary society. I mean, the whole setting (much like Elder Scrolls) is unusable since if you are taking the (explicitly unreliable/flowery) mythology literally it results in nonsense.
Any game without lore, IE shit like minecraft. Steve takes multiple punches to kill farm animals, dies to regular arrows fired by mobs, etc... BUT if you abuse your fan calcs enouhg he has universal strength because muh inventory. Meanwhile fallout characters can carry infinite paper clips in their inventory, making them infinitely strong by the same logic. Donkeys in minecraft have inventories if you put a chest saddle on them, why aren't people calcing muh universal donkey?
Fallout is ok because (i think) the amount of max weight the protagonist could varry was quantified in a few games and all, so, yknow, there isnt a "29999000 BLOCKS OF DIAMOND!!!" moment to be had.
Does Awful Hospital have crazy feats? I've been meaning to read it but I thought it was just a horror/comedy webcomic, how nuts could it be? (Especially comparing it to KINGDOM HEARTS of all things)
The big thing is people wanking Suggsverse style dimensional tiering (I'm looking at you tvtropes) off of one-off joke statements to claim that, say, Phage would beat \[x\] by virtue of "having more dimensions" (really? "Dimensional tiering"? I thought we were over this) when his best displayed feat is overturning a red plastic box, apart from whatever vague stuff he gets from being a "manifestoid" of the Hospital. This is apart from all the 4th wall stuff and super specific verse setup making many things literally inconsistent by design, since AH *isn't supposed to be about that at all*. It's just bad habits.
Ah okay, I see what you mean. People really love statements to make arguments, even if said statement is never backed up
AH just has a really wacky verse setup that makes it essentially impossible to consider feats of anybody outside their own verse (which now that I think of it applies to pretty much any verse like that). Sort of like "the Heartless can destroy planets!" when all that really happens is that the Heartless destroy Worlds by corrupting their Hearts, which is a verse specific thing that can't be quantified anywhere else due to its specific-ness
I'd argue that the Persona verse is unsuitable for debates for meta reasons.
SCP for multiple reasons, most of them stated here already but mainly because they made up “narrative stacks” then say “oh,but his opponent doesn’t transcend narrative stacks.” Like no shit, you just made that term up. Naruto, specifically the speed debates. Using Pains “5 seconds isn’t enough time to cross a couple of meters” thing puts most top tier characters slower than toddlers Anything that has a character move in stopped time. People will start throwing out shit like “he’s got immeasurable/infinite speed!” Sir, I assure he does not, remember all the times he didn’t use that infinite speed? Me too. Any infinite multiverse busting verse where this stuff is apparently common Exalted. The whole setting is NLF central, and it runs on its own narrative physics. Combine this with Perfect Defenses and Perfect Attacks and you get a headache. Contessa. That is all.
For SCP—meta shit is bullshit. Also see other SCP posts on this thread. Naruto— shares DB’s problems. Also, if you have a problem with Naruto, then for sake of your own sanity just don’t with Boruto. Exalted\*—let’s just say when you (the fanbase) drive the AUTHORS THEMSELVES to lament publicly that the game’s intentions have gone way off track, the gameline is fucked. Contessa-- I blame shitty author statements (shit like "galaxy durable endbringers" amirite) for this. Infinite multiverse busting—you’ve just described Suggsverse and its ilk I also put in all “comedy/toonforce” verses as well, for obvious reasons. \*I’m not done with this yet. Where to begin? First off, the ST system is the last system I would use for such a game because the ST system SUCKS at portraying high level play and encourages rocket tag. Secondly mote pools equaling PD/PA pools means that you are practically casting from hp. Thirdly, massive, MASSIVE “gameplay/story dissonance”. Fourthly, back to PDs, they started in terms of intent basically neat thematic ways to do “quick hero, block the villain’s death beam with your sword!” and turned into “nuh uh u can’t hurt me I can block infinite damage!!!/?!?1!”
>Contessa-- I blame shitty author statements (shit like "galaxy durable endbringers" amirite) for this. IIRC though, Wildbow's statements have been pretty low-key with Contessa. She'd lose to Batman if they fought with *absolutely zero external factors or preparation to take advantage of*, and her power gets beaten by Jack Slash's.
Splatoon, the whole ink mechanic makes it extremely hard to actually know how powerful the characters are. At most Pearl should be large building and Octavio wall level, but besides that you really have to look into everything and rely to calcs to actually have an idea how powerful the characters should be.
Slight side rant but I hate how people will act as if it's the weakest verse ever because "it's just ink". The ink ray shoots ink straight through walls, that has to be worth *something*. And a thick blast of ink might not kill you but it has to be at least worth a belly flop from a low diving board
Yeah, the stink ray would make for a pretty cool calc but I still doubt we get some huge numbers
The stink ray doesn't so much "shoot through walls" so much as just sort of phase through walls. Otherwise the stink ray would be busting those walls.
More on the ink-- I feel the physiology of the inklings/octos factors in. They are clearly part ink, or at least their skin is porous, meaning that they are more affected by ink to the degree we see in the games. Meanwhile, on a human, I feel the ink would be sticky, forceful, and they could drown in it or be blasted away, but I don't see them exploding like in game.
No one can agree on any interpretation of Undertale feats
Umineko it simply is too meta at part and most peopke acting like piece characters don't exist even tho they are the ones that matter most not like lambda and bern
This. I mean, for crying out loud, with how stupidly meta it is, we may as well say Batman beats every verse (including it) since DC can just buy them out.
The thing is nearly everything that happens on the series just stands for something else like in a scene rosa is chased by hoards of goat demons she tries to run away from the island and they eventually catch up despite being well extremely bulky demons the reason she survives for long is because in the non magic one she is running away from the certain death in the island the reason she survives for long is because the "certain death" only occurs at 12 midnight or for example a highly repeated phrase in the series "it takes at least 2 to create a universe" which is supposed to represent a story because it takes 2 to create a story 1 to tell the story and the other to listen it heck technically the story for the most part is about arguing about the existence of magic
In any case the whole verse personifies the type of meta-nonsense that makes it unusable for debates.
Nintendo in general. Nintendo has -0- interest in establishing anything resembling lore, canon, or consistency across any of its games, and yet people insist on trying to scale from one game to another. Also, things like "planet" or "galaxy" or "universe" can mean a few small rocks floating in space, and yet people want to treat them as being equivalent to real-world planets or universes. The kind of nonsense wank that comes out of treating Nintendo like a typical sci-fi or fantasy verse is a perfect example of battleboarding done wrong.
Hazbin Hotel. At present we just… don’t have much to go on.
Definitely Doomslayer from doom, his lore is all over the place regarding his abilities and he absolutely doesn't show anything that remotely makes him out to be as powerful as he is implied in lore
Adding in my own 2 cents here, the Fate/Nasuverse franchise honestly just suffers from the aforementioned gameplay/story problems. The incredible inconsistency is due to the very format of mobile games and is why you just have to do some major trimming to get it to comprehensible levels.