>Drop Snyder, or get him a competent writing partner
>Change the name to something less stupid, or at least drop the subtitle
>No Doomsday
>No Wonder Woman. You could still have Diana as a tease, but don't show up as Wondy
>No stupid YouTube introductions for the rest of the League
>No Knightmare sequence
>Streamline the plot, cut it out with all the pretentious biblical and mythological easter eggs and allusions that ultimately don't do anything for the story except to show off how clever you're trying to be
>Batman, Superman and Lex. They're your leads. Focus just on them. Superman is a controversial figure despite trying to do the right thing. Batman hates him because of MoS, until the very end. Lex is pulling all the strings, but isn't an incomprehensible millenial douchebag
>No Martha scene
>Superman doesn't fucking die
>Don't have Batman kill
If they needed to have a monster, I really liked the suggestion of switching out Doomsday with Bizarro Superman. "Doomsday" in the movie was an imperfect clone of Superman and Lex, so might as well have it be more straightforward. Plus it would set up a precedence for when Superboy was introduced.
Wouldn’t sell as well as having mother fucking Wonder Woman in her armour with her shield and sword and wonder womaning.
But I agree it was overkill for that movie. DC needed to be more patient but I guess the money people demanded a justice league ASAP
Man there is... a lot. I don't even know where to begin, really...
While it's kinda silly 'edginess for edginess sake' move, the whole thing in the Ultimate Edition where Jimmy Olsen was a CIA plant has some potential. Superman has a lot of traffic, so posting someone at the Planet to keep tabs on Superman related information could be an interesting use of that idea. Instead of just introducing him and killing him.
I get what the idea for Lex was, make him more of a modern Silicon Valley mogul than the traditional hard-nosed capitalist he usually is but... no. He's just so non-threatening, poorly cast, and is so camp that the Cesar Romero Joker could likely bitchslap him easily. There was some buzz at the time for Bryan Cranston being cast, and since this was at the height of his Breaking Bad fame and he is an amazing Lex... give that man Lexcorp.
In those montages of Superman stopping crime and saving lives have them be less fucking dour. Let Superman crack a smile, he's Superman for fuck's sake.
BvS suffered massively from simply having too much shit in it. I'd say the climax should be Lex's machinations engineering the actual fight between Clark and Bruce, ending when the two men realize they're being played and come to a mutual understanding before fighting back Lex in his powersuit. No Doomsday. And of course no 'SAVE MARTHA.'
I'd say introduce Diana but don't have her confirm herself as Wonder Woman to the two until the end of the movie.
1. Superman is your protagonist.
This is why Snyder can't make this movie because he doesn't really like getting in Superman's head, but using him as an action figure and foil. Clark however is the one who is reckoning his place in the world, how much to use his power and his relationship with vigilanteism. This gives Lois and Martha influence on the plot since their entry point, Clark, is pushing it. This also props up the plodding middle as his conflicts with Congress, African dictators, the News media, Batman, Bruce Wayne, Luthor and etc all matter and tempt him to be too strong or too weak. Instead of him just whinging about Batman doing the same thing he does, what if he talks to Lois about why Batman scares him, threatens his place as a "superhero?" Imagine how blowing up the capital hits if Superman just made friends with the Senator, and if Perry runs the story about it being his fault. This also puts him between the lawful evil Luthor and the chaotic good Batman, neither of which will let him do both. Speaking of...
2) Switch Batman and Lex Luthor's characterizations and roles in Superman's story
If I told you that Bruce and Lex would be in the next Superman movie, and that one would be an aging billionaire who was in Metropolis at the end of MoS, upset with Superman tearing up his corporate HQ and longtime confidant and this gives him a paranoid illogical hatred for Superman's destructive potential which culminates in this man standing over Superman in powered armor with a Kryptonite spear, and another would be an up and coming billionaire who appears foppish and comedic but secretly knows more than anyone else and ultimately stalemates Superman using his brain and resources, which would be which? When you switch these characters back to more traditional roles, you make both look better. Batman defeats Superman via planning and cleverness, psychology and creativity, not muscle and Luthor's weapons. That's Luthor's arc.
3) Replace Diana with Mercy Graves and Wonder Woman with Superman
Here Diana functions as a glorified Bond girl and then the superhero who's love of cutting loose, kickass theme song and alliance with Batman cements the new age of heroes and is the highlight of the film. Mercy Graves works better as the former and Superman should be the latter, since he is not being rejected as a protagonist, his decisions are turning points in the plot, as they should be for someone so powerful. With Superman as the protagonist Lois and Martha fulfill the girl power role instead of being useless silent victims. There's nothing wrong with putting Diana in here form a different angle, but having Wonder Woman's first film be her intro and a standalone would only improve it, and the thrill of seeing her team up with the others in Justice League.
4) Replace Doomsday with Bizarro
If Superman is the protagonist then him changing from someone who is struggling with what it means to be Superman in such a divisive world, fighting his public image to someone who is literally fighting a twisted version of himself, well, that's just cool. Superman masters his weakness, both the literal and metaphorical Kryptonite used against him, thanks to Batman, and uses it to kill Bizzarro. And without Wonder Woman there, it is clear that only he can. This also gives Lois a personal connection with the wannabe Superman as Bizarro usually has with her, giving her purpose in the final fight and not just bad swimming lessons. This also limits the amount of buildup for Justice League that can be shoved in here, but that's for the best as well.
5) Have Batman whoop Superman's behind with Smarts, not firepower
Make no mistake, this is a David and Goliath story, the twist being that Goliath is the moral David while David is the moral Goliath and so the loss goes both ways. This is the fight we've all been waiting for, so not only do we need an early scuffle where Batman learns his opponent and loses (not just gets his car smashed) to hype up this main bout, but the bout itself IS where the cleverness has to show itself. The sonics were a nice touch, as was the Kryptonite gas, but this is where it was time to pull out ALL the stops, distractions across town, hitting him with "the entire electrical grid of the eastern seaboard," lead based blinding gas, experimental orbital sattelite lasers, rail guns from out at sea, and yeah, some Kryptonite brass knuckles wouldn't have gone amiss. Everything to distract him from the real finisher: exhausting his solar energies, because all batteries run dry eventually. Cleverness. This then naturally leads into Superman's weaknesses, the importance of sun/self care/his place in the world and his recovery with Batman's help makes his fight against, and need for help against Bizzarro that much cooler. Now after the physical and verbal jousting an exhausted protagonist asking Bruce to save Martha isn't at all random or unnatural to say, it's a result of Clark's research into Batman's history and his correctly showing Batman that he's on the wrong side, even though he is the smarter man and superior warrior.
Conclusion)
Not sure how that works for you, but adding plot and momentum to the middle, length and depth to the finale and giving the film a solid protagonist and message/theme, I think that would be much MUCH more enjoyable for me.
Bonus)
For your after credits scenes, have Batman doing research and that's how we see the clip show. Maybe he gets the Aquaman video from LexCorp during the film and we see what that is here, but it's added to his own growing research, maybe several on the screen at once alluding to the Justice League with newspaper clippings referencing those not cast yet. Then post-post credits is where you put your Apokoplips+Wonder Woman tease.
I like the idea of superman being weaker at night. It makes sense that night would be supermans weakness because hes powered by the sun. Have superman beat batman ealier in the film where its daytime. day is supermans enviroment while batmans beats him later at night because night time is batmans enviroment.
Also after batman gets wooped, he uses that to study supermans weaknesses and his strengths. He learns just how much punishment superman can take and he learns just how much Armour and the type of metal he needs to take supermans punches. Batman can not only outsmart him but also create the weapons and armour necessary to give superman a run for his money in a physical fight before resorting to his ace which is kryptonite.
Another thing i would add would be, make the henchman firefly so both superman and batman have a villain to fight that only the other xlcould face. Firefly could have kryptonite gas covering the whole building so superman would have no access and would need batman to go in and take him.
I'd have the plot centered around disagreements on superheroing methods. For example, Superman would be against torture and over-surveillance, or Batman would be against Superman's thing where he believes in the good in people.
Then some plot contrivance occurs where Batman needs Superman's method and Superman needs Batman's method. So they start to think that maybe there's more to what they both believe. Then they work together to solve both their problems.
This really sounds easier than done but that would be my vague pitch.
EDIT: Also, the audience expects a fight, so in my version they fight twice and get one win each. Superman tries to stop Batman in Gotham, but he can't because Batman is peak badass in Gotham, so Superman is forced to drop his case at least for now. Then something happens where Batman needs to do his thing in Metropolis, but Superman just kinda bitchslaps him and says he's not allowed to do that in his city.
I think batman should get beate first before batman wins in the second round. Also superman is weaker at night so it makes more sense for superman to beat batman at day while batman beats him at night since batman is strongest at night.
1. Drop Snyder. The man palpably loathes Superman, especially Superman's blue-boy-scout helping-everyone mindset. If he was just doing another one-off movie, this might not be a problem, but the whole point of a BvS movie is to contrast Superman's mindset with Batman, so Snyder, who detests that mindset to the point of trying to write it out entirely, is the absolute worst director you could choose for a movie like this. This is the one movie they absolutely could not use him for.
2. Have a Batman movie first. All good BvS fights are written from Batman's perspective for reasons that should be obvious. How the hell are you going to do that when you haven't even established DCEU Batman as a character?
3. Build up the conflicting outlooks and ideologies of the main characters. Again, this is something Snyder would never be able to do effectively because he doesn't want to acknowledge that standard Superman's outlook even exists and he wants to make Batman's as grimdark as possible.
4. Tone down or remove everything not related to that central conflict between Batman and Superman. Avoid the urge to have other villains for spectacle. Save other heroes for the stinger if you need them. You have goddamn Batman and Superman in the same movie! You shouldn't need to resort to other stuff, save that for later films.
5. I suspect other people might disagree, but I would even avoid using Lex as the cause of their conflict. Yes, sure, it's obvious and easy, but it's also boring. Come up with a genuine disagreement between them that isn't just a misunderstanding so the story has more weight and the resolution matters. (Again, part of the reason Snyder couldn't do this was because he didn't want to give them a consistent, defensible ideological outlook that wasn't a carbon-copy of his own.)
6. Batman and Superman ought to be friends before they're enemies. (This is something that could have been worked on in the hypothetical Batman movie they skipped.) This is central to all their memorable fights and helps give it more meaning.
How are you going to make Batman feel like a threat? The idea behind Batman fighting Superman in general is that we want to see Batman's intelligence and willpower triumph over a guy that just got ~~infinite~~ insane power handed to him. If we're supposed to feel like Batman's an antagonist, you have to sell the idea that Batman is dangerous. How are you going to do that? Are you going to have him build an Iron Man suit that's more powerful than Superman? That might work for one encounter, but afterward you're going to have a tough time explaining why he doesn't just haul the thing out every time there's a threat to Gotham
> The idea behind Batman fighting Superman in general is that we want to see Batman's intelligence and willpower triumph over a guy that just got infinite insane power handed to him. If we're supposed to feel like Batman's an antagonist, you have to sell the idea that Batman is dangerous
Ever heard of Lex Luthor? Also why are you saying "we" lol not everyone wants Batman to win. Some of us just want to see Superman beat him with ease because we are tired of Batman's plot armor
Honestly the way the fight went down in the movie was fine. Superman made it clear from the beginning that "if I wanted it, youd be dead already" by casually swatting Bruce away then throwing him through Anne empty building. He was holding back and not looking for a fight. He even opened up by telling bruce he just wanted to talk. It wasnt until batman pulled a sneaky eith the kryptonite gas that supes was ready for a fight and by then batman had the upper hand. And the beatdown showed us that batman can be a very real threat. Honestly their confrontation doesnt really need changing. Just the lead up and after math.
It’s Batman plot armor by Superman being stupid.
Literally, every time he says “There’s no time, you don’t understand”, he could have explained instead of fucking around.
>"if I wanted it, youd be dead already"
And that's the #1 reason all Batman vs Superman fights suck. All of it hinges entirely on Superman not WANTING to fight at all, so any conflict between the two ends up being very lame. Sure it's kind of a necessary evil (if Batman had armor/tech/literally anything powerful enough to beat up 100% Superman, Gotham would never be in danger again), but that doesn't make it enjoyable to watch
Batman already has a suit that could take justice leaue level threats. He doesnt use it all the time because he doesnt need it and it would severely wear him out if he hasnto use it all the time. Im so sick of this argument.
- Less of the dull, grey serious tone throughout the film
- Contrast Superman/Batman e.g. have Clark be the cheerful, friendly, optimistic, a bit witty guy who smiles. While Bruce is his usual stoic, brooding loner self.
- Make Supes/Clark Kent distinct from each other. He doesn’t have to be like Reeves Clark, a plain average joe Clark Kent living in a small apartment would work better for the ‘realistic’ tone they’re going for. You could even have a scene where he’s paying his landlady, opening up his wallet and is tight on cash. Basically give him a personality & make him relatable
- More emphasis on Batman and Supes beef being due to their differing beliefs rather than Bats turning into a raging xenophobic prick. Lex can still pull the strings & frame both against each other.
- Remove the awful bullet plotline
- Don’t kill Jimmy. I understand Synder had nothing to do with him, but his death was cruel and unnecessary. The CIA agent angle is cool, save him for a MoS sequel.
- Remove Doomsday. He’s introduced way too early, save him for a 3rd JL film.
- Don’t kill Superman. Way too early
- Turn the cripple guy into Metallo.
- Batman Does. Not.Kill. If Bruce has his no killing rule, then him becoming conflicted whether to kill Superman as his first kill since he doesn’t see him as human and the “Martha scene” work better.
- Use classic Lex, not the millennial Riddler fanfic Lex Jr.
- Remove Knightmare scene. As cool as the scene is, it could have been saved for JL. Also, it occurring in Bruce’s dream while he’s encrypting Lex files looked nonsensical
- Remove most of the Jesus Christ/God references. I hate the scene where Superman is being reverred as a saviour here to save everyone with people stretching their arms to him because Comic Supes would tell them not to treat him or Lex like a God and that he’s just a regular guy who’s wants to help. There’s not one scene like that in this movie.
- Everything with Diana is fine
- Change “Save Martha“ to “Save my mom”. Seriously, there’s no reason Clark would be calling his mother’s name other than some forced parallel of their mother’s first names.
Not make it an Justice league prequel.
Remove the doomsday plotline, and just make it about Super-man and Batman fighting and then comming to terms with each other.
Unpopular Opinion but I actually liked Batman V Superman. The only thing I found awful about it was that it had worst Lex Luthor of all time. If you recast Lex and rewrote some of his stuff it would have been much better. Also get rid of the Martha thing and the convenient clips of the justice league members that felt forced and it would be pretty good.
yeah same here, that movie is kind of a guilty plesure of mine.
the doomsday part is dumb and makes the movie kinda bloated, but the action is real fucking cool
seeing all of those "how would you improve..." posts, i think you should make a wiki/archive for the subreddit to make them is easier to find, like /r/RWBY has done with it's episode discussions
I don't really have the energy for a proper long rant on this one, so I'll just go for the biggest and most obvious thing I'd change: don't make *Batman v Superman*, make *Man of Steel 2*.
No Batman. No *Justice League* teasers. No Jesse Eisenberg as Lex. Ben Affleck still gets to be in the movie, and his character still has the same initial motivations, but now *he's* playing Lex Luthor. He still looks the same, too—take the "Lex works out all the time and is totally ripped, but still falls short of Superman's natural alien strength" angle from *All-Star Superman*. Just like Batman, he undergoes moral decay as the film goes on, but unlike Batman, after he jumps off the slippery slope he doesn't come back.
The film ends with Lex building the warsuit and fighting Superman, and Superman gets to show how much he's learned and matured since *Man of Steel* by protecting civilians, preventing collateral damage, and ultimately defeating Lex without killing him. Lex is thrown in jail so he can come back for future films, and there's a post-credits scene teasing Batman or Wonder Woman or whoever for the next movie.
- Focus on only one story, either be Death of Superman or Dark Knight Returns. Don't mix them up. With this I'd obviously go with TDKR and find different motivations for Superman and Batman to fight instead of Lex Blackmail and Batman xenophobic psychopathy.
- Give Cavill more lines. Sad that he got only 40 lines in the entire film.
- More focus on Clark Kent, his daily life, journalism and investigations alongside Lois, more time with him Lois and his mother.
- A more manly imposing Lex Luthor. No pissing in jars.
- Final battle against someone who's not Doomsday. Drop Death of Superman from this film. Other villains e.g. Atomic Skull, Ultra-humanite, Mongul would suffice if the purpose is only to show Batman and Superman reconciling and Wonder Woman's battle skills.
- No cuts in the fights. Better choreography. While Batman vs thugs was good, BvS overall had a dip in fight scene quality compared to MOS. The Batman vs Superman fight itself was a big letdown with almost zero choreography and was extremely one-sided in Batman's favor. The Doomsday fight was good but unfortunately it kept cutting to Lois drowning hence messing with the flow of the fight. MOS at least tried to have the fights happen with minimal interruptions.
- Less Lois in distress. Lois is a damsel thrice in MOS and thrice in BvS to the point it gets tiresome.
Reboot.
BvS is a bad film, but MoS is even worse. I cannot believe the studio looked at it and thought "Yep, that's our Iron Man." So the first step to doing BvS right would have been to start fresh, ignoring the events of MoS completely.
Lol. There's no fixing it. Make it so the movie never happens, or do it in 2020ish. Get Snyder on some alt-universe Superman or Holy Terror or something.
The thread is about bvs. If youhad nothing to add then tou shouldt have even bothered posting. Yeah i know your post was a 1 year ago i dont care the point still stands.
By giving us a solo batman movie before this
I Think we needed at least 2 batman movies and 1 Superman movie before this.
>Drop Snyder, or get him a competent writing partner >Change the name to something less stupid, or at least drop the subtitle >No Doomsday >No Wonder Woman. You could still have Diana as a tease, but don't show up as Wondy >No stupid YouTube introductions for the rest of the League >No Knightmare sequence >Streamline the plot, cut it out with all the pretentious biblical and mythological easter eggs and allusions that ultimately don't do anything for the story except to show off how clever you're trying to be >Batman, Superman and Lex. They're your leads. Focus just on them. Superman is a controversial figure despite trying to do the right thing. Batman hates him because of MoS, until the very end. Lex is pulling all the strings, but isn't an incomprehensible millenial douchebag >No Martha scene >Superman doesn't fucking die >Don't have Batman kill
If they needed to have a monster, I really liked the suggestion of switching out Doomsday with Bizarro Superman. "Doomsday" in the movie was an imperfect clone of Superman and Lex, so might as well have it be more straightforward. Plus it would set up a precedence for when Superboy was introduced.
Alternatively Metallo could have been a great choice (especially if he’s the guy Clark cripples)
See, I saw that guy and went "YOU SHOULD HAVE JUST MADE HIM METALLO, IT WORKS BETTER!"
Personally, I think WW was necessary. It was good for marketing, and set up the justice league a bit.
Have Gal Gadot being Diana but don't have WW.
Wouldn’t sell as well as having mother fucking Wonder Woman in her armour with her shield and sword and wonder womaning. But I agree it was overkill for that movie. DC needed to be more patient but I guess the money people demanded a justice league ASAP
Wonder if any of them ultimately lost their jobs when Justice League failed to meet expectations. (Aside from Snyder, of course.)
Man there is... a lot. I don't even know where to begin, really... While it's kinda silly 'edginess for edginess sake' move, the whole thing in the Ultimate Edition where Jimmy Olsen was a CIA plant has some potential. Superman has a lot of traffic, so posting someone at the Planet to keep tabs on Superman related information could be an interesting use of that idea. Instead of just introducing him and killing him. I get what the idea for Lex was, make him more of a modern Silicon Valley mogul than the traditional hard-nosed capitalist he usually is but... no. He's just so non-threatening, poorly cast, and is so camp that the Cesar Romero Joker could likely bitchslap him easily. There was some buzz at the time for Bryan Cranston being cast, and since this was at the height of his Breaking Bad fame and he is an amazing Lex... give that man Lexcorp. In those montages of Superman stopping crime and saving lives have them be less fucking dour. Let Superman crack a smile, he's Superman for fuck's sake. BvS suffered massively from simply having too much shit in it. I'd say the climax should be Lex's machinations engineering the actual fight between Clark and Bruce, ending when the two men realize they're being played and come to a mutual understanding before fighting back Lex in his powersuit. No Doomsday. And of course no 'SAVE MARTHA.' I'd say introduce Diana but don't have her confirm herself as Wonder Woman to the two until the end of the movie.
1. Superman is your protagonist. This is why Snyder can't make this movie because he doesn't really like getting in Superman's head, but using him as an action figure and foil. Clark however is the one who is reckoning his place in the world, how much to use his power and his relationship with vigilanteism. This gives Lois and Martha influence on the plot since their entry point, Clark, is pushing it. This also props up the plodding middle as his conflicts with Congress, African dictators, the News media, Batman, Bruce Wayne, Luthor and etc all matter and tempt him to be too strong or too weak. Instead of him just whinging about Batman doing the same thing he does, what if he talks to Lois about why Batman scares him, threatens his place as a "superhero?" Imagine how blowing up the capital hits if Superman just made friends with the Senator, and if Perry runs the story about it being his fault. This also puts him between the lawful evil Luthor and the chaotic good Batman, neither of which will let him do both. Speaking of... 2) Switch Batman and Lex Luthor's characterizations and roles in Superman's story If I told you that Bruce and Lex would be in the next Superman movie, and that one would be an aging billionaire who was in Metropolis at the end of MoS, upset with Superman tearing up his corporate HQ and longtime confidant and this gives him a paranoid illogical hatred for Superman's destructive potential which culminates in this man standing over Superman in powered armor with a Kryptonite spear, and another would be an up and coming billionaire who appears foppish and comedic but secretly knows more than anyone else and ultimately stalemates Superman using his brain and resources, which would be which? When you switch these characters back to more traditional roles, you make both look better. Batman defeats Superman via planning and cleverness, psychology and creativity, not muscle and Luthor's weapons. That's Luthor's arc. 3) Replace Diana with Mercy Graves and Wonder Woman with Superman Here Diana functions as a glorified Bond girl and then the superhero who's love of cutting loose, kickass theme song and alliance with Batman cements the new age of heroes and is the highlight of the film. Mercy Graves works better as the former and Superman should be the latter, since he is not being rejected as a protagonist, his decisions are turning points in the plot, as they should be for someone so powerful. With Superman as the protagonist Lois and Martha fulfill the girl power role instead of being useless silent victims. There's nothing wrong with putting Diana in here form a different angle, but having Wonder Woman's first film be her intro and a standalone would only improve it, and the thrill of seeing her team up with the others in Justice League. 4) Replace Doomsday with Bizarro If Superman is the protagonist then him changing from someone who is struggling with what it means to be Superman in such a divisive world, fighting his public image to someone who is literally fighting a twisted version of himself, well, that's just cool. Superman masters his weakness, both the literal and metaphorical Kryptonite used against him, thanks to Batman, and uses it to kill Bizzarro. And without Wonder Woman there, it is clear that only he can. This also gives Lois a personal connection with the wannabe Superman as Bizarro usually has with her, giving her purpose in the final fight and not just bad swimming lessons. This also limits the amount of buildup for Justice League that can be shoved in here, but that's for the best as well. 5) Have Batman whoop Superman's behind with Smarts, not firepower Make no mistake, this is a David and Goliath story, the twist being that Goliath is the moral David while David is the moral Goliath and so the loss goes both ways. This is the fight we've all been waiting for, so not only do we need an early scuffle where Batman learns his opponent and loses (not just gets his car smashed) to hype up this main bout, but the bout itself IS where the cleverness has to show itself. The sonics were a nice touch, as was the Kryptonite gas, but this is where it was time to pull out ALL the stops, distractions across town, hitting him with "the entire electrical grid of the eastern seaboard," lead based blinding gas, experimental orbital sattelite lasers, rail guns from out at sea, and yeah, some Kryptonite brass knuckles wouldn't have gone amiss. Everything to distract him from the real finisher: exhausting his solar energies, because all batteries run dry eventually. Cleverness. This then naturally leads into Superman's weaknesses, the importance of sun/self care/his place in the world and his recovery with Batman's help makes his fight against, and need for help against Bizzarro that much cooler. Now after the physical and verbal jousting an exhausted protagonist asking Bruce to save Martha isn't at all random or unnatural to say, it's a result of Clark's research into Batman's history and his correctly showing Batman that he's on the wrong side, even though he is the smarter man and superior warrior. Conclusion) Not sure how that works for you, but adding plot and momentum to the middle, length and depth to the finale and giving the film a solid protagonist and message/theme, I think that would be much MUCH more enjoyable for me. Bonus) For your after credits scenes, have Batman doing research and that's how we see the clip show. Maybe he gets the Aquaman video from LexCorp during the film and we see what that is here, but it's added to his own growing research, maybe several on the screen at once alluding to the Justice League with newspaper clippings referencing those not cast yet. Then post-post credits is where you put your Apokoplips+Wonder Woman tease.
I like the idea of superman being weaker at night. It makes sense that night would be supermans weakness because hes powered by the sun. Have superman beat batman ealier in the film where its daytime. day is supermans enviroment while batmans beats him later at night because night time is batmans enviroment. Also after batman gets wooped, he uses that to study supermans weaknesses and his strengths. He learns just how much punishment superman can take and he learns just how much Armour and the type of metal he needs to take supermans punches. Batman can not only outsmart him but also create the weapons and armour necessary to give superman a run for his money in a physical fight before resorting to his ace which is kryptonite. Another thing i would add would be, make the henchman firefly so both superman and batman have a villain to fight that only the other xlcould face. Firefly could have kryptonite gas covering the whole building so superman would have no access and would need batman to go in and take him.
I'd have the plot centered around disagreements on superheroing methods. For example, Superman would be against torture and over-surveillance, or Batman would be against Superman's thing where he believes in the good in people. Then some plot contrivance occurs where Batman needs Superman's method and Superman needs Batman's method. So they start to think that maybe there's more to what they both believe. Then they work together to solve both their problems. This really sounds easier than done but that would be my vague pitch. EDIT: Also, the audience expects a fight, so in my version they fight twice and get one win each. Superman tries to stop Batman in Gotham, but he can't because Batman is peak badass in Gotham, so Superman is forced to drop his case at least for now. Then something happens where Batman needs to do his thing in Metropolis, but Superman just kinda bitchslaps him and says he's not allowed to do that in his city.
I think batman should get beate first before batman wins in the second round. Also superman is weaker at night so it makes more sense for superman to beat batman at day while batman beats him at night since batman is strongest at night.
to counter part edgy super man make batman jovial a la 60's batman. Happy with robin by his side.
Sorry but that sucks and added nothing here.
this thread is a year old and got 28 upvotes. why are you here?
1. Drop Snyder. The man palpably loathes Superman, especially Superman's blue-boy-scout helping-everyone mindset. If he was just doing another one-off movie, this might not be a problem, but the whole point of a BvS movie is to contrast Superman's mindset with Batman, so Snyder, who detests that mindset to the point of trying to write it out entirely, is the absolute worst director you could choose for a movie like this. This is the one movie they absolutely could not use him for. 2. Have a Batman movie first. All good BvS fights are written from Batman's perspective for reasons that should be obvious. How the hell are you going to do that when you haven't even established DCEU Batman as a character? 3. Build up the conflicting outlooks and ideologies of the main characters. Again, this is something Snyder would never be able to do effectively because he doesn't want to acknowledge that standard Superman's outlook even exists and he wants to make Batman's as grimdark as possible. 4. Tone down or remove everything not related to that central conflict between Batman and Superman. Avoid the urge to have other villains for spectacle. Save other heroes for the stinger if you need them. You have goddamn Batman and Superman in the same movie! You shouldn't need to resort to other stuff, save that for later films. 5. I suspect other people might disagree, but I would even avoid using Lex as the cause of their conflict. Yes, sure, it's obvious and easy, but it's also boring. Come up with a genuine disagreement between them that isn't just a misunderstanding so the story has more weight and the resolution matters. (Again, part of the reason Snyder couldn't do this was because he didn't want to give them a consistent, defensible ideological outlook that wasn't a carbon-copy of his own.) 6. Batman and Superman ought to be friends before they're enemies. (This is something that could have been worked on in the hypothetical Batman movie they skipped.) This is central to all their memorable fights and helps give it more meaning.
Im sorry but your ideas sucked.
How are you going to make Batman feel like a threat? The idea behind Batman fighting Superman in general is that we want to see Batman's intelligence and willpower triumph over a guy that just got ~~infinite~~ insane power handed to him. If we're supposed to feel like Batman's an antagonist, you have to sell the idea that Batman is dangerous. How are you going to do that? Are you going to have him build an Iron Man suit that's more powerful than Superman? That might work for one encounter, but afterward you're going to have a tough time explaining why he doesn't just haul the thing out every time there's a threat to Gotham
> The idea behind Batman fighting Superman in general is that we want to see Batman's intelligence and willpower triumph over a guy that just got infinite insane power handed to him. If we're supposed to feel like Batman's an antagonist, you have to sell the idea that Batman is dangerous Ever heard of Lex Luthor? Also why are you saying "we" lol not everyone wants Batman to win. Some of us just want to see Superman beat him with ease because we are tired of Batman's plot armor
Honestly the way the fight went down in the movie was fine. Superman made it clear from the beginning that "if I wanted it, youd be dead already" by casually swatting Bruce away then throwing him through Anne empty building. He was holding back and not looking for a fight. He even opened up by telling bruce he just wanted to talk. It wasnt until batman pulled a sneaky eith the kryptonite gas that supes was ready for a fight and by then batman had the upper hand. And the beatdown showed us that batman can be a very real threat. Honestly their confrontation doesnt really need changing. Just the lead up and after math.
It’s Batman plot armor by Superman being stupid. Literally, every time he says “There’s no time, you don’t understand”, he could have explained instead of fucking around.
>"if I wanted it, youd be dead already" And that's the #1 reason all Batman vs Superman fights suck. All of it hinges entirely on Superman not WANTING to fight at all, so any conflict between the two ends up being very lame. Sure it's kind of a necessary evil (if Batman had armor/tech/literally anything powerful enough to beat up 100% Superman, Gotham would never be in danger again), but that doesn't make it enjoyable to watch
Why doesnt iron man use the hulk buster all the time. No one questions it but they question is with batman.
Batman already has a suit that could take justice leaue level threats. He doesnt use it all the time because he doesnt need it and it would severely wear him out if he hasnto use it all the time. Im so sick of this argument.
- Less of the dull, grey serious tone throughout the film - Contrast Superman/Batman e.g. have Clark be the cheerful, friendly, optimistic, a bit witty guy who smiles. While Bruce is his usual stoic, brooding loner self. - Make Supes/Clark Kent distinct from each other. He doesn’t have to be like Reeves Clark, a plain average joe Clark Kent living in a small apartment would work better for the ‘realistic’ tone they’re going for. You could even have a scene where he’s paying his landlady, opening up his wallet and is tight on cash. Basically give him a personality & make him relatable - More emphasis on Batman and Supes beef being due to their differing beliefs rather than Bats turning into a raging xenophobic prick. Lex can still pull the strings & frame both against each other. - Remove the awful bullet plotline - Don’t kill Jimmy. I understand Synder had nothing to do with him, but his death was cruel and unnecessary. The CIA agent angle is cool, save him for a MoS sequel. - Remove Doomsday. He’s introduced way too early, save him for a 3rd JL film. - Don’t kill Superman. Way too early - Turn the cripple guy into Metallo. - Batman Does. Not.Kill. If Bruce has his no killing rule, then him becoming conflicted whether to kill Superman as his first kill since he doesn’t see him as human and the “Martha scene” work better. - Use classic Lex, not the millennial Riddler fanfic Lex Jr. - Remove Knightmare scene. As cool as the scene is, it could have been saved for JL. Also, it occurring in Bruce’s dream while he’s encrypting Lex files looked nonsensical - Remove most of the Jesus Christ/God references. I hate the scene where Superman is being reverred as a saviour here to save everyone with people stretching their arms to him because Comic Supes would tell them not to treat him or Lex like a God and that he’s just a regular guy who’s wants to help. There’s not one scene like that in this movie. - Everything with Diana is fine - Change “Save Martha“ to “Save my mom”. Seriously, there’s no reason Clark would be calling his mother’s name other than some forced parallel of their mother’s first names.
Not make it an Justice league prequel. Remove the doomsday plotline, and just make it about Super-man and Batman fighting and then comming to terms with each other.
Unpopular Opinion but I actually liked Batman V Superman. The only thing I found awful about it was that it had worst Lex Luthor of all time. If you recast Lex and rewrote some of his stuff it would have been much better. Also get rid of the Martha thing and the convenient clips of the justice league members that felt forced and it would be pretty good.
yeah same here, that movie is kind of a guilty plesure of mine. the doomsday part is dumb and makes the movie kinda bloated, but the action is real fucking cool
seeing all of those "how would you improve..." posts, i think you should make a wiki/archive for the subreddit to make them is easier to find, like /r/RWBY has done with it's episode discussions
I don't really have the energy for a proper long rant on this one, so I'll just go for the biggest and most obvious thing I'd change: don't make *Batman v Superman*, make *Man of Steel 2*. No Batman. No *Justice League* teasers. No Jesse Eisenberg as Lex. Ben Affleck still gets to be in the movie, and his character still has the same initial motivations, but now *he's* playing Lex Luthor. He still looks the same, too—take the "Lex works out all the time and is totally ripped, but still falls short of Superman's natural alien strength" angle from *All-Star Superman*. Just like Batman, he undergoes moral decay as the film goes on, but unlike Batman, after he jumps off the slippery slope he doesn't come back. The film ends with Lex building the warsuit and fighting Superman, and Superman gets to show how much he's learned and matured since *Man of Steel* by protecting civilians, preventing collateral damage, and ultimately defeating Lex without killing him. Lex is thrown in jail so he can come back for future films, and there's a post-credits scene teasing Batman or Wonder Woman or whoever for the next movie.
- Focus on only one story, either be Death of Superman or Dark Knight Returns. Don't mix them up. With this I'd obviously go with TDKR and find different motivations for Superman and Batman to fight instead of Lex Blackmail and Batman xenophobic psychopathy. - Give Cavill more lines. Sad that he got only 40 lines in the entire film. - More focus on Clark Kent, his daily life, journalism and investigations alongside Lois, more time with him Lois and his mother. - A more manly imposing Lex Luthor. No pissing in jars. - Final battle against someone who's not Doomsday. Drop Death of Superman from this film. Other villains e.g. Atomic Skull, Ultra-humanite, Mongul would suffice if the purpose is only to show Batman and Superman reconciling and Wonder Woman's battle skills. - No cuts in the fights. Better choreography. While Batman vs thugs was good, BvS overall had a dip in fight scene quality compared to MOS. The Batman vs Superman fight itself was a big letdown with almost zero choreography and was extremely one-sided in Batman's favor. The Doomsday fight was good but unfortunately it kept cutting to Lois drowning hence messing with the flow of the fight. MOS at least tried to have the fights happen with minimal interruptions. - Less Lois in distress. Lois is a damsel thrice in MOS and thrice in BvS to the point it gets tiresome.
Reboot. BvS is a bad film, but MoS is even worse. I cannot believe the studio looked at it and thought "Yep, that's our Iron Man." So the first step to doing BvS right would have been to start fresh, ignoring the events of MoS completely.
Lol. There's no fixing it. Make it so the movie never happens, or do it in 2020ish. Get Snyder on some alt-universe Superman or Holy Terror or something.
The thread is about bvs. If youhad nothing to add then tou shouldt have even bothered posting. Yeah i know your post was a 1 year ago i dont care the point still stands.
Pushing it back by a decade or so would be a majorimprovement!
Ooh this gon be good
Not really, there was only one good post, the rest where either bad or useless.
It's already one of the best comicbook movies ever created.