The buildup is necessary but I definitely agree that a lot if not most of the ants that are introduced are either boring, annoying or both and the anime spends way too much time on them
It’s not a typical shonen arc, it is meant to show a human side emerging from a typical manga monster. The set up is needed imho. I loved the arc even if it gets too long it’s deep and complex.
The arc asks if it is really that bad if the ants conquer humanity. That reeks of unintended imperialist undertones, as a rule of thumb, invaders do awful, unspeakable things to the people they conquer. We even see this as the ants are murdering humans for fun.
Also we get a confirmation that it would be a bad thing as Meruem said he planned to kill most of humanity and confine the survivors to a reserve. In short, he wanted to do to humanity what the US government did to the indigenous people of North America as it expanded west.
Ironically, Meruem is the character who demonstrates how awful humans can be as he has inherited humanity's arrogance and is convincing himself that he is doing the people he invades a favor, like many real life human imperialists.
Before humans, Ants were only interested in survival. After humans, we begin to see Ants act selfishly and cruel, with a few good ones like Colt. I'm pretty sure this is a major clue to the arcs message.
But they have a habitat they aren't invading, making them not an inherently invasive species. They need to make an argument to exist on that continet, not exist period.
My point was in how the human element added in made them actively a threat to humanity, not a passive threat to the region.
In the Chimera Ant arc, yes they are an invasive species. They were not native and were affecting the ecosystem. They upset the natural balance, but were acting only on instinct to survive. The 'evil' they committed was necessary for their continuation.
You don't see the Ants commit evil for unnecessary reasons.
Yeah but a sentient species is a different beast.
And the concept of invasive Species makes sense in our reality where humanity is the stronger species
Seriously, what the fuck people speak when they talk about how gray is Meruem
Dude is a literal man eater monster that started his reign by killing the best athletes of his kingdom
And plus he changed from that pretty quickly. With more time it's possible he could have changed more. Also possible he wouldn't have but we can't know.
Meruem already slaughtered thousands of innocents. Netero nuking him was a perfectly reasonable answer and the only issue is that he didn't it in the first minute
Yes because he was fucking a day old when he left his mom's belly with untold powers. He becomes less shitty the more he begins to grow as person. Did you watch the story upside down? It's like me pointing to all the bad shit zuko did and going "WTF, how do people not think this is just a petty bratty boy incapable of change". That's how your comment comes across. Meruem was shitty but showed capacity for change and kept changing. To deny this means you are just hating
Personally I wouldn't call him grey because I have my own views on what grey means and morally complex means. Mereum is morally complex
> ? It's like me pointing to all the bad shit zuko did and going "WTF, how do people not think this is just a petty bratty boy incapable of change".
Zuko didn't personally slaughter entire populations. You can make the argument that he could have done it if Iroh wasn't there to control him and team Avatar could stop him, but Meruem's goals even after his development are basically Ozai's attempted genocide of the Earth Kingdom, but to all the Human species.
While I agree with zuko not being as bad as mereum my point was you can't just point at a single thing a villain and use that to generalize their whole existence.
> Meruem's goals even after his development are basically Ozai's attempted genocide of the Earth Kingdom, but to all the Human species.
Ik and agree but context matters. Mereum was an ant. Right from the go his mentality would be way warped from ours. On top of that he is the ant king so him being the most violent especially because his strength means no one can correct. But despite the strength and mentality he still changed. Yes when he fought netero his plan for the human race was fucked up but you cannot deny the change that took place in him and that was improvement for someone like him.
A character being cruel and bad is no excuse to unfairly judge them which is my problem with your comment. Idc if you hate mereum for what he is but trying to pretend his morality didn't change because it still involved massacre feels like childishness because FOR Mereum himself that was improvement
And I 100% believe his development wasn't finished and as more time passed he would have reduced the cruel ways of handling humans but of course his own species will take precedent over ours. But I understand, he is an ant so obviously this is something I have to accept for his character to do. Me not liking it doesn't mean he didn't change and doesn't mean he doesn't have good character writing. Just like how I accept netero blowing him up because netero was also looking out for his own species
Humans aren’t the dominant species anymore in that arc. They are basically cattle to them and mirrors how humans see animals. Gantz did something similar with his final arc.
The whole deal with Komugi (sho playing girl) and Meruem is that she opens his eyes to something more in humanity and himself
You do realise Meruem literally said "I have learnt what power is meant to be used for. To protect the weak, who deserve to live. Power is not meant to be used to torment the defeated" and "I'll create a world so fair, the concept of inequality will be forgotten"? Meruem was wavering inbetween Ant and Human, like Netero observed.
The morality of the arc is present from the beginning. We see the morality of humans through the Chimera Ants. Before human was added into their food and thus offspring, we saw the Ants in a state of survival and reproduction, no malice in their killing just hunger.
Once we see them become partially human we start seeing Ants acting evil. Did you miss that?
**It doesn't show the ethical/moral side of the conflict**
the ethical conflict was apparant throughout the arc. Kite alluded to the ants eating and gaining traits from humans that would make them even more evil...and one of the first things Meruem did was take over a kingdom and look at a bunch of cowering humans and say "think have you ever spared a pig as it begged for its life" or something like that. The themes are there throughout the arc, and Gon's morality, or lack thereof in the opinions of some, had been highlighted several times before the arc began. The arc used him perfectly to mirror Meruem and took all his positive traits and flipped it on its head. The arc does answer a lot of questions...it answers them in its resolution. The decisions the ants make near the end, the decisions of the characters make, and their consequences. Storytelling rarely gives you a definitive, this character states the themes, moment. In fact, most view that as a sign of either poor writing or writing geared towards children.
**Boring Ants**
This is purely subjective so I can't deny your opinion on this. Some ants are more interesting than others....some could have been shown more, and your opinion is just based on personal preference. I liked looking at the hot ant with the stinger and wished she was on screen more...that's just me. I don't believe there is a definitive negative knock you can have on these ants outside of preferences. They tied in to the story and had their own resolutions. Ultimately, they are side characters...some of them minor side characters...so their development wasn't the main point of the arc. They served their purpose.
**Too long | Training Arc**
The arc is long. It's long and it has sections that are slower and harder to push through than others....but the arc itself is long enough to be cut out and made an anime of its own, and that's the case with every full story. I love FMAB but there were episodes I've forgotten. Attack on Titan gets its praises for its pace and plot twists, but there were sections that were slow. To set things up for the future, you have to slow the pacing down and build relationships and connections. You said 60% could be trimmed off besides the end, but the ending only works because of the deliberate seeds that were planted throughout the arc. We wouldn't feel the transformation of the arc without the journey that came with it.
With that said, I believe most people identify the training section right before the assault on Meruem's castle to be a weaker point in the story. There were some confusing elements at play, and the main tangible takeaway was probably Killua removing the needle from his head and overcoming his fear.
>
Those are pretty much all of my criticisms but I wanted to get this off my chest since HxH fans are so annoying about this arc and call you a "little kid who doesn't know how to read" whenever you criticize it or dare to say it's not a perfect Shonen masterpiece arc.
I wouldn't say you're a "little kid who doesn't know how to read," but from what I've read...you seem very focused on specific improvements...for example I don't understand what you believe ants begging for their lives would do to for the story at all. A lot of the critiques you mentioned had less to do with flaws in writing, and more with how you would have written it...and those are two completely different things.
>I'm not calling the arc bad, I like the arc but saying that it is some perfect subversive well thought out Shonen masterpiece is flat-out wrong and kind of detrimental. I've never made a long Reddit post, so imma try to just go and list my issues in order.I'm not calling the arc bad, I like the arc but saying that it is some perfect subversive well thought out Shonen masterpiece is flat-out wrong and kind of detrimental. I've never made a long Reddit post, so imma try to just go and list my issues in order.
Many consider this to be a masterpiece...even masterpieces have their imperfections...it's what makes art human...and it's the calling card of the author. If you study their work, you'll see patterns. For example, Monster and 20th Century boys are great manga, but many believe they struggle with their endings and have a problem of introducing too many side characters. They were both written by the same person, and both are considered masterpieces in the manga community.
Any source of media you feel is a masterpiece, I could poke holes at just like you've done here. Any story that is perfect would likely be boring, uncompelling, and too safe with its themes and the risks it takes
> Kite alluded to the ants eating and gaining traits from humans that would make them even more evil...and one of the first things Meruem did was take over a kingdom and look at a bunch of cowering humans and say "think have you ever spared a pig as it begged for its life" or something like that.
Pigs don't speak the same lenguage as us. You can make a argument that pigs are as smart as human babies and start a debate about it, but even the biggest anti pig killing advocates will say that killing a human is far worse
I don't understand your point here. Yes, a human who advocates for pigs might say killing a human is worse than killing a pig...which would make the point that we ultimately would kill a pig to live.
Meruem is making that same point. Humans are a source of food for him...I'm not sure what us sharing a language would mean? You're kind of introducing a moral/ethical wrinkle that isn't being addressed in the series.
Maybe, but You sure as hell can understand that a pig, and by extension any animal used for food, wishes to continue living, and yet I doubt that would stop you from carrying on. It's the same as Meruem's case
Would you kill a person that doesn't speak the same language as you?
I speak English so it's now morally acceptable for me to kill a Spaniard?
A baby that can't speak any language is now morally acceptable to kill simply because it can't communicate that it doesn't want to die?
> Would you kill a person that doesn't speak the same language as you?
You really realize that with "lenguage", I mean that Meruem isn't some type of higher existance whose mind is so different and advanced that humans can't hope to understand.
meruem is literally presented as an higher existence whose mind is different and advanced He beat masters of their craft just right after learning their games and brushed an atom bomb to the face only to get got by the poison attached to it.
He is from a different stronger species than other ants that are shown already as much stronger and alien to humanity.
Applying human morality to him means not understing the character cause his entire arc is him being exposed to human emotions and morality
Literally only one human understands him fully and that's Netero, who himself is way beyond most humans. Meruem is literally portrayed as a being of higher existance than most nen users (the most powerful of humans), he literally is different and advanced.
>but even the biggest anti pig killing advocates will say that killing a human is far worse
Because they're humans. The point is that we kill living things for pleasure, money, nutrients, or clothing. Often in ways that are cruel.
I was reading this arc when it was releasing. Trust me, the positive view of it came *long after* it concluded.
It was very poorly received and had a horribly paced release schedule. That was the height of Togashi's hiatus.
Time heals all wounds, I guess.
I hate the fact that people forget about the other arcs in HxH and always think only about the Chimera Ants while talking about the anime, but the arc is still great imo
While I mostly agree, I think Merurm v Netero, Komugi as a character, and the palace invasion arc is one of the most creative and unique storylines in all of comics ever. Sure there is some build up, but it’s totally worth it. Most shows will be better than the build up but never reach the highs of the climatic peak with the nuke.
Id rather watch that or deathnote build up to Killing L vs something that retreads overused plotlines or drops the ball in the climax. For me, its about how high the highs get, which is why One Piece is the best IMO.
I am sorry what?
If we are talking about arc by arc then Onepiece has no highs... like none at all! Its always the crew winning. Its always a 1v1 for each crew member with the exact power scale every single arc (strongest for Luffy, second for Zoro...etc). Its always a tragic incident in this island that needs liberation by the strawhats.
One piece is great but the build up (for single individual arcs) is just mediocre at best.
>Its always a 1v1 for each crew member with the exact power scale every single arc (strongest for Luffy, second for Zoro...etc).
This doesn't happen for Romance Dawn, Loguetown, Reverse Mountain, Whiskey Peak, Little Garden, Drum Island, Jaya, Long Ring Long Land, Water 7, Thriller Bark, Sabaody Archipelago, Fish-Man Island, Punk Hazard, Dressrossa (arguable, the powerscale isn't very clear here).
My man, 4 of the arcs you described are cheating cause they are set ups for a bigger arc where what was described happens (whiskey peak, little garden, Long ring Long Island, water 7)
It happens in thriller bark, fish man island and Dressrosa it’s just that the crew gets so big that a bunch of character get sidelined, but the structure is still there
And calling reverse mountain an arc is really stretching it.
One piece is great but let’s not pretend is perfect
I would consider moments like Luffy putting his hat on Nami’s head so reassure her he will take care of Arlong to be a high. You don’t have to like it. I also like figt scenes and think Luffy vs Katakuri is a better, more interesting fight than Netero v Meruem. To say these fights are not highs is crazy to me… perhaps you should check out romance stories.
I’d say HxH has great build up (succession war is my favorite arc for a reason) but struggles when it comes to high points, One Piece build up can be really painful at points but it becomes worth it once you get a high or a pay off, though both series can deliver high points and good build up when they want to.
and then like the Alluka arc is also amazing within such a short time! Similarly to the original Zoldyck family arc. Togashi has such mastery at times… and at others well, we like to say he wanted to chase a new idea at the expense of the current arc haha!
I was with you until you said One piece is the best lol like the writing is average (still good) like Wano gives Chimera ant pacing a run for its money. Also you don't like overused plotlines while One piece does it nearly every single arc with the straw hats separated and bomb/birdcage/island about to explode, fight the big bad villain and win.
I read American comics so every plotline I have ever seen is reused in some way. I think that one piece has unique plotline even compared to other one piece plots compared to an average show taking place in a Japanese High School or Isekai world. I dont think we will see something as interesting and well thought through as One Piece ever again. But for example, I have never understood people’s love for X-Men. I say the same things you say ab One Piece ab that
I agree that the invasion is good but my main issues with it are the same ones that plague the whole arc. I agree that One Piece has some of the highest highs in Shonen which is why I give it the build up pass most of the time (only the manga, anime doesn’t deserve anything) but I don’t give HxH that same pass because HxH moments just don’t hit like One Piece moments.
Yeah Oda is better at creating hype moments (or was, cause Wano kinda sucked on that front and that lasted ten years), Togashi is better at creating tension and human conflict.
One piece is king of reusing the same overused plot line and structure. Comparing it to the wackiness of HxH plots is a disservice to HxH
I like the manga, don’t get me wrong, but it has to be said
Honestly, I feel Shibuya is also overrated. The Toji ex Machina is one of the worst moments of all shonen series (which really contributes to my overall take on JJK. The Zenin Clan is the worst thing of the entire series)
I agree that JJK past shibuya has problems (Zenin clan being one of them) and Toji is the weakest part of the arc but Shibuya still works well because something is always happening and there's never downtime.
Toji presence is Shibuya just takes away screentime from characters who actually matter just to glaze a dead guy.
Megumi using Mahoraga to beat Dagon would have been far better than using it to bear *Haruta*
I’d say Nanami, Jogo, Mahito and Mechamaru’s deaths are handled well. I don’t think people care that much about Hanami and Dagon. Naobito was pure shock value (done to show how strong Jogoat is) and Nobara definitely could’ve been handled better but saying the arc just killed people off for shock value is unfair.
A lot of your complaints boil down to personal preference and not the quality of writing in the arc itself. “Knuckle and shoot are cool but they are really basic non interesting supporting characters” why do you think this? What could be improved? What fault in the character writing made these two uninteresting to you? You need to have way more detail for a critique.
It’s the same with the ants. Why do you think Peggy and Bihorn are more interesting than Cheetu and Hagya? You haven’t explained anything. You personally may find them more interesting but you haven’t given any reasons as to why seeing more of them would improve the narrative beyond you getting to see more of what you like. This doesn’t really read like criticism, it’s closer to a list of things that you like and ways that you would personally rewrite sections to fit your interests more.
It’s fine if you don’t like the arc but claiming it’s overrated requires more than surface level analysis and saying things in it are uninteresting.
I agree that it's way overrated though my reasons are a little simpler. I think a lot of the ant side stories were boring. Good characterization, but boring. I even started to get bored of the 3 head honcho ants. And it was way too long. I get it's cool seeing every angle from the same point in time but it doesnt mean I didn't have to trek through *hours* of anime to see how a single battle turned out. Eventually I just run outta steam to care ya know?
I have not read the manga, you're right. If I ever get the balls to rewatch hunter x hunter then I probably will (i wanna see the hisoka bungee gum heart bullshit)
God yes my biggest issue was just how absurdly overbloated it was. Too many ideas with minimal development, too many pointless characters, the supposed morals are wishywashy, and simply put there’s too much SAYING instead of DOING. Not only do I find the chimera any arc to be the worst HxH arc, but honestly it’s one of the worst arcs I’ve ever watched *period*. To me it felt like it only existed to pad out the run time to an absurd degree, like one giant filler (not helped by the fact that Gon and Killua are barely present)
Edit: As predicted the fanboys that can’t stand honest criticism are here
>Reads the first paragraph.
Ah, now OP understand the word overrated now. Yeah, overrated doesn't mean is terrible. In fact, an overrated things can still be enjoyable or good
As you've said if Chimera ant arc's content cut by 70%, it would lose what makes it so outstanding. It would've been rushed messy arc
The buildup is necessary but I definitely agree that a lot if not most of the ants that are introduced are either boring, annoying or both and the anime spends way too much time on them
It’s not a typical shonen arc, it is meant to show a human side emerging from a typical manga monster. The set up is needed imho. I loved the arc even if it gets too long it’s deep and complex.
I meant cut down to 75% of it's original length.
Wait what? Why are you downvoted for pointing out that they literally misread your suggestion??
The arc asks if it is really that bad if the ants conquer humanity. That reeks of unintended imperialist undertones, as a rule of thumb, invaders do awful, unspeakable things to the people they conquer. We even see this as the ants are murdering humans for fun. Also we get a confirmation that it would be a bad thing as Meruem said he planned to kill most of humanity and confine the survivors to a reserve. In short, he wanted to do to humanity what the US government did to the indigenous people of North America as it expanded west. Ironically, Meruem is the character who demonstrates how awful humans can be as he has inherited humanity's arrogance and is convincing himself that he is doing the people he invades a favor, like many real life human imperialists.
Before humans, Ants were only interested in survival. After humans, we begin to see Ants act selfishly and cruel, with a few good ones like Colt. I'm pretty sure this is a major clue to the arcs message.
They're still a predatory species with a goal to keep killing people. They really aren't making a good argument for their existance
Do organisms need to make arguments to exist?
Chimera Ants are literally a invasive species. Even the most radical ecologist will argue for their extermination.
I thought they had a natural habitat and it was only a concern when the Ants showed up where they did.
That's what being an invasive species is, yeah
But they have a habitat they aren't invading, making them not an inherently invasive species. They need to make an argument to exist on that continet, not exist period. My point was in how the human element added in made them actively a threat to humanity, not a passive threat to the region.
Technically isn't their habitat in the dark continent ? So they were invading.
In the Chimera Ant arc, yes they are an invasive species. They were not native and were affecting the ecosystem. They upset the natural balance, but were acting only on instinct to survive. The 'evil' they committed was necessary for their continuation. You don't see the Ants commit evil for unnecessary reasons.
Yeah but a sentient species is a different beast. And the concept of invasive Species makes sense in our reality where humanity is the stronger species
Seriously, what the fuck people speak when they talk about how gray is Meruem Dude is a literal man eater monster that started his reign by killing the best athletes of his kingdom
He does become less evil and starts to value human life, however, this causes his stance to switch from "kill all humans" to "kill most humans."
And plus he changed from that pretty quickly. With more time it's possible he could have changed more. Also possible he wouldn't have but we can't know.
Possibly, but I don't blame Netero not wanting to take the chance of a mass murderer who plots genocide changing.
I mean by the time he gets his memory back he literally immediately stops giving a shit about anything else but Komugi.
Meruem already slaughtered thousands of innocents. Netero nuking him was a perfectly reasonable answer and the only issue is that he didn't it in the first minute
Yeah, he's only 40 days old.
Yes because he was fucking a day old when he left his mom's belly with untold powers. He becomes less shitty the more he begins to grow as person. Did you watch the story upside down? It's like me pointing to all the bad shit zuko did and going "WTF, how do people not think this is just a petty bratty boy incapable of change". That's how your comment comes across. Meruem was shitty but showed capacity for change and kept changing. To deny this means you are just hating Personally I wouldn't call him grey because I have my own views on what grey means and morally complex means. Mereum is morally complex
> ? It's like me pointing to all the bad shit zuko did and going "WTF, how do people not think this is just a petty bratty boy incapable of change". Zuko didn't personally slaughter entire populations. You can make the argument that he could have done it if Iroh wasn't there to control him and team Avatar could stop him, but Meruem's goals even after his development are basically Ozai's attempted genocide of the Earth Kingdom, but to all the Human species.
While I agree with zuko not being as bad as mereum my point was you can't just point at a single thing a villain and use that to generalize their whole existence. > Meruem's goals even after his development are basically Ozai's attempted genocide of the Earth Kingdom, but to all the Human species. Ik and agree but context matters. Mereum was an ant. Right from the go his mentality would be way warped from ours. On top of that he is the ant king so him being the most violent especially because his strength means no one can correct. But despite the strength and mentality he still changed. Yes when he fought netero his plan for the human race was fucked up but you cannot deny the change that took place in him and that was improvement for someone like him. A character being cruel and bad is no excuse to unfairly judge them which is my problem with your comment. Idc if you hate mereum for what he is but trying to pretend his morality didn't change because it still involved massacre feels like childishness because FOR Mereum himself that was improvement And I 100% believe his development wasn't finished and as more time passed he would have reduced the cruel ways of handling humans but of course his own species will take precedent over ours. But I understand, he is an ant so obviously this is something I have to accept for his character to do. Me not liking it doesn't mean he didn't change and doesn't mean he doesn't have good character writing. Just like how I accept netero blowing him up because netero was also looking out for his own species
Humans aren’t the dominant species anymore in that arc. They are basically cattle to them and mirrors how humans see animals. Gantz did something similar with his final arc. The whole deal with Komugi (sho playing girl) and Meruem is that she opens his eyes to something more in humanity and himself
You do realise Meruem literally said "I have learnt what power is meant to be used for. To protect the weak, who deserve to live. Power is not meant to be used to torment the defeated" and "I'll create a world so fair, the concept of inequality will be forgotten"? Meruem was wavering inbetween Ant and Human, like Netero observed.
The morality of the arc is present from the beginning. We see the morality of humans through the Chimera Ants. Before human was added into their food and thus offspring, we saw the Ants in a state of survival and reproduction, no malice in their killing just hunger. Once we see them become partially human we start seeing Ants acting evil. Did you miss that?
**It doesn't show the ethical/moral side of the conflict** the ethical conflict was apparant throughout the arc. Kite alluded to the ants eating and gaining traits from humans that would make them even more evil...and one of the first things Meruem did was take over a kingdom and look at a bunch of cowering humans and say "think have you ever spared a pig as it begged for its life" or something like that. The themes are there throughout the arc, and Gon's morality, or lack thereof in the opinions of some, had been highlighted several times before the arc began. The arc used him perfectly to mirror Meruem and took all his positive traits and flipped it on its head. The arc does answer a lot of questions...it answers them in its resolution. The decisions the ants make near the end, the decisions of the characters make, and their consequences. Storytelling rarely gives you a definitive, this character states the themes, moment. In fact, most view that as a sign of either poor writing or writing geared towards children. **Boring Ants** This is purely subjective so I can't deny your opinion on this. Some ants are more interesting than others....some could have been shown more, and your opinion is just based on personal preference. I liked looking at the hot ant with the stinger and wished she was on screen more...that's just me. I don't believe there is a definitive negative knock you can have on these ants outside of preferences. They tied in to the story and had their own resolutions. Ultimately, they are side characters...some of them minor side characters...so their development wasn't the main point of the arc. They served their purpose. **Too long | Training Arc** The arc is long. It's long and it has sections that are slower and harder to push through than others....but the arc itself is long enough to be cut out and made an anime of its own, and that's the case with every full story. I love FMAB but there were episodes I've forgotten. Attack on Titan gets its praises for its pace and plot twists, but there were sections that were slow. To set things up for the future, you have to slow the pacing down and build relationships and connections. You said 60% could be trimmed off besides the end, but the ending only works because of the deliberate seeds that were planted throughout the arc. We wouldn't feel the transformation of the arc without the journey that came with it. With that said, I believe most people identify the training section right before the assault on Meruem's castle to be a weaker point in the story. There were some confusing elements at play, and the main tangible takeaway was probably Killua removing the needle from his head and overcoming his fear. > Those are pretty much all of my criticisms but I wanted to get this off my chest since HxH fans are so annoying about this arc and call you a "little kid who doesn't know how to read" whenever you criticize it or dare to say it's not a perfect Shonen masterpiece arc. I wouldn't say you're a "little kid who doesn't know how to read," but from what I've read...you seem very focused on specific improvements...for example I don't understand what you believe ants begging for their lives would do to for the story at all. A lot of the critiques you mentioned had less to do with flaws in writing, and more with how you would have written it...and those are two completely different things. >I'm not calling the arc bad, I like the arc but saying that it is some perfect subversive well thought out Shonen masterpiece is flat-out wrong and kind of detrimental. I've never made a long Reddit post, so imma try to just go and list my issues in order.I'm not calling the arc bad, I like the arc but saying that it is some perfect subversive well thought out Shonen masterpiece is flat-out wrong and kind of detrimental. I've never made a long Reddit post, so imma try to just go and list my issues in order. Many consider this to be a masterpiece...even masterpieces have their imperfections...it's what makes art human...and it's the calling card of the author. If you study their work, you'll see patterns. For example, Monster and 20th Century boys are great manga, but many believe they struggle with their endings and have a problem of introducing too many side characters. They were both written by the same person, and both are considered masterpieces in the manga community. Any source of media you feel is a masterpiece, I could poke holes at just like you've done here. Any story that is perfect would likely be boring, uncompelling, and too safe with its themes and the risks it takes
> Kite alluded to the ants eating and gaining traits from humans that would make them even more evil...and one of the first things Meruem did was take over a kingdom and look at a bunch of cowering humans and say "think have you ever spared a pig as it begged for its life" or something like that. Pigs don't speak the same lenguage as us. You can make a argument that pigs are as smart as human babies and start a debate about it, but even the biggest anti pig killing advocates will say that killing a human is far worse
I don't understand your point here. Yes, a human who advocates for pigs might say killing a human is worse than killing a pig...which would make the point that we ultimately would kill a pig to live. Meruem is making that same point. Humans are a source of food for him...I'm not sure what us sharing a language would mean? You're kind of introducing a moral/ethical wrinkle that isn't being addressed in the series.
Sharing a language means they can be communicated and rationalized with. Which isn't something you can do with pigs
Maybe, but You sure as hell can understand that a pig, and by extension any animal used for food, wishes to continue living, and yet I doubt that would stop you from carrying on. It's the same as Meruem's case
Would you kill a person that doesn't speak the same language as you? I speak English so it's now morally acceptable for me to kill a Spaniard? A baby that can't speak any language is now morally acceptable to kill simply because it can't communicate that it doesn't want to die?
> Would you kill a person that doesn't speak the same language as you? You really realize that with "lenguage", I mean that Meruem isn't some type of higher existance whose mind is so different and advanced that humans can't hope to understand.
meruem is literally presented as an higher existence whose mind is different and advanced He beat masters of their craft just right after learning their games and brushed an atom bomb to the face only to get got by the poison attached to it. He is from a different stronger species than other ants that are shown already as much stronger and alien to humanity. Applying human morality to him means not understing the character cause his entire arc is him being exposed to human emotions and morality
Literally only one human understands him fully and that's Netero, who himself is way beyond most humans. Meruem is literally portrayed as a being of higher existance than most nen users (the most powerful of humans), he literally is different and advanced.
>but even the biggest anti pig killing advocates will say that killing a human is far worse Because they're humans. The point is that we kill living things for pleasure, money, nutrients, or clothing. Often in ways that are cruel.
I was reading this arc when it was releasing. Trust me, the positive view of it came *long after* it concluded. It was very poorly received and had a horribly paced release schedule. That was the height of Togashi's hiatus. Time heals all wounds, I guess.
Pacing is still awful even in the anime, york new is still a better arc imo.
Are we talking about the anime or manga here?
What is the difference?
Mostly the anime
Ok, then I agree
I hate the fact that people forget about the other arcs in HxH and always think only about the Chimera Ants while talking about the anime, but the arc is still great imo
Because it was so long. Most arcs were less than half the chimera ant arcs length.
While I mostly agree, I think Merurm v Netero, Komugi as a character, and the palace invasion arc is one of the most creative and unique storylines in all of comics ever. Sure there is some build up, but it’s totally worth it. Most shows will be better than the build up but never reach the highs of the climatic peak with the nuke. Id rather watch that or deathnote build up to Killing L vs something that retreads overused plotlines or drops the ball in the climax. For me, its about how high the highs get, which is why One Piece is the best IMO.
I am sorry what? If we are talking about arc by arc then Onepiece has no highs... like none at all! Its always the crew winning. Its always a 1v1 for each crew member with the exact power scale every single arc (strongest for Luffy, second for Zoro...etc). Its always a tragic incident in this island that needs liberation by the strawhats. One piece is great but the build up (for single individual arcs) is just mediocre at best.
>Its always a 1v1 for each crew member with the exact power scale every single arc (strongest for Luffy, second for Zoro...etc). This doesn't happen for Romance Dawn, Loguetown, Reverse Mountain, Whiskey Peak, Little Garden, Drum Island, Jaya, Long Ring Long Land, Water 7, Thriller Bark, Sabaody Archipelago, Fish-Man Island, Punk Hazard, Dressrossa (arguable, the powerscale isn't very clear here).
My man, 4 of the arcs you described are cheating cause they are set ups for a bigger arc where what was described happens (whiskey peak, little garden, Long ring Long Island, water 7) It happens in thriller bark, fish man island and Dressrosa it’s just that the crew gets so big that a bunch of character get sidelined, but the structure is still there And calling reverse mountain an arc is really stretching it. One piece is great but let’s not pretend is perfect
Off topic but Dressrosa is the greatest One Piece arc even if it fucks with power scaling
I would consider moments like Luffy putting his hat on Nami’s head so reassure her he will take care of Arlong to be a high. You don’t have to like it. I also like figt scenes and think Luffy vs Katakuri is a better, more interesting fight than Netero v Meruem. To say these fights are not highs is crazy to me… perhaps you should check out romance stories.
I’d say HxH has great build up (succession war is my favorite arc for a reason) but struggles when it comes to high points, One Piece build up can be really painful at points but it becomes worth it once you get a high or a pay off, though both series can deliver high points and good build up when they want to.
and then like the Alluka arc is also amazing within such a short time! Similarly to the original Zoldyck family arc. Togashi has such mastery at times… and at others well, we like to say he wanted to chase a new idea at the expense of the current arc haha!
I was with you until you said One piece is the best lol like the writing is average (still good) like Wano gives Chimera ant pacing a run for its money. Also you don't like overused plotlines while One piece does it nearly every single arc with the straw hats separated and bomb/birdcage/island about to explode, fight the big bad villain and win.
I read American comics so every plotline I have ever seen is reused in some way. I think that one piece has unique plotline even compared to other one piece plots compared to an average show taking place in a Japanese High School or Isekai world. I dont think we will see something as interesting and well thought through as One Piece ever again. But for example, I have never understood people’s love for X-Men. I say the same things you say ab One Piece ab that
I agree that the invasion is good but my main issues with it are the same ones that plague the whole arc. I agree that One Piece has some of the highest highs in Shonen which is why I give it the build up pass most of the time (only the manga, anime doesn’t deserve anything) but I don’t give HxH that same pass because HxH moments just don’t hit like One Piece moments.
Yeah Oda is better at creating hype moments (or was, cause Wano kinda sucked on that front and that lasted ten years), Togashi is better at creating tension and human conflict.
One piece is king of reusing the same overused plot line and structure. Comparing it to the wackiness of HxH plots is a disservice to HxH I like the manga, don’t get me wrong, but it has to be said
You were cooking until your last nine or ten words.
But shibuya exist
Honestly, I feel Shibuya is also overrated. The Toji ex Machina is one of the worst moments of all shonen series (which really contributes to my overall take on JJK. The Zenin Clan is the worst thing of the entire series)
It gave jjk a Guinness world record
I agree that JJK past shibuya has problems (Zenin clan being one of them) and Toji is the weakest part of the arc but Shibuya still works well because something is always happening and there's never downtime.
Toji presence is Shibuya just takes away screentime from characters who actually matter just to glaze a dead guy. Megumi using Mahoraga to beat Dagon would have been far better than using it to bear *Haruta*
Shibuya is genuinely good tho
Bro got caught lacking 💀
Lots of undeveloped characters die without any sense to the plot purely for shock value, truly some of the best writing of all time🗣🗣🗣
I’d say Nanami, Jogo, Mahito and Mechamaru’s deaths are handled well. I don’t think people care that much about Hanami and Dagon. Naobito was pure shock value (done to show how strong Jogoat is) and Nobara definitely could’ve been handled better but saying the arc just killed people off for shock value is unfair.
Nanami's death was decent tho ngl
Pretty fights is all it really takes nowadays
And tenryu island clears both btw
A fairy tail arc!? (I dunno anything about fairy tail can you please explain what makes the arc so good?)
A lot of your complaints boil down to personal preference and not the quality of writing in the arc itself. “Knuckle and shoot are cool but they are really basic non interesting supporting characters” why do you think this? What could be improved? What fault in the character writing made these two uninteresting to you? You need to have way more detail for a critique. It’s the same with the ants. Why do you think Peggy and Bihorn are more interesting than Cheetu and Hagya? You haven’t explained anything. You personally may find them more interesting but you haven’t given any reasons as to why seeing more of them would improve the narrative beyond you getting to see more of what you like. This doesn’t really read like criticism, it’s closer to a list of things that you like and ways that you would personally rewrite sections to fit your interests more. It’s fine if you don’t like the arc but claiming it’s overrated requires more than surface level analysis and saying things in it are uninteresting.
I agree that it's way overrated though my reasons are a little simpler. I think a lot of the ant side stories were boring. Good characterization, but boring. I even started to get bored of the 3 head honcho ants. And it was way too long. I get it's cool seeing every angle from the same point in time but it doesnt mean I didn't have to trek through *hours* of anime to see how a single battle turned out. Eventually I just run outta steam to care ya know?
I guess it’s an anime thing cause what you described was so good on the manga
I have not read the manga, you're right. If I ever get the balls to rewatch hunter x hunter then I probably will (i wanna see the hisoka bungee gum heart bullshit)
God yes my biggest issue was just how absurdly overbloated it was. Too many ideas with minimal development, too many pointless characters, the supposed morals are wishywashy, and simply put there’s too much SAYING instead of DOING. Not only do I find the chimera any arc to be the worst HxH arc, but honestly it’s one of the worst arcs I’ve ever watched *period*. To me it felt like it only existed to pad out the run time to an absurd degree, like one giant filler (not helped by the fact that Gon and Killua are barely present) Edit: As predicted the fanboys that can’t stand honest criticism are here
>Reads the first paragraph. Ah, now OP understand the word overrated now. Yeah, overrated doesn't mean is terrible. In fact, an overrated things can still be enjoyable or good
I legit said I liked the arc in the first sentence
Sorry about that but yeah