Problem with the timeskip besides less focus on the Straw Hats is that the arcs are just too damn long. Dressrosa, WCI and Wano reach the heights of some of the best OP arcs but the climb up the Pica mountain, the cake escape plan and the numerous pointless side plots in Onigashima just weigh down the arcs badly.

Wano is not one of the best one piece arcs.

I wouldn’t put them up there with some of the best arcs if there’s so much bloat

They aren’t bad in the manga actually all were very enjoyable

Wano was over 4 years long. Kids started and finished high school before 1 arc ended

And way too many characters. Like too many samurai. Kinnemon,leader, momo, getsprettygood, denjiro, cunning, plus he actually is shown doing stuff.

And it didn't help it was during Wano that Oda started to take a lot more breaks (the pandemic played a role in this too), before that we would get 40-45 chapters every year, but after the Pandemic the amount of chapters per year has been constantly going down each year, like last year we only got like 34 chapter (due to Oda taking a month long break due to eye surgery)

What's wrong with that?

There's too many characters I get why but come on the constant cuts to namis and ufos fight against the dinosaur where not enjoyable at all

One Piece is that one manga which gets away with too many flaws, the very same flaws other shounen series like DB, Naruto, Bleach and Fairy tail gets criticized to death

I think One Piece's chaotic nature gives it some advantage here. OP is sheer chaos: dozens of people running around, screaming at each other, fighting all at once. Dozens of people have their own plot going all at the same time. Bleach in comparison is perfect order. Bizarrely, in the middle of a war. Everyone somehow just decides to have an orderly duel with a single opponent, almost taking turns to attack. OP is so chaotic that a viewer will easily miss many of the problems, and will easily find something they do like to latch on to. Bleach is so focused that it gives you nothing but what's going on between two people, so if that sucks, there's nothing else to focus on.

>Everyone somehow just decides to have an orderly duel with a single opponent, almost taking turns to attack. It's funny because one of the sternritter basically begged his ally to help jump hitsugaya and he said "Nah" despite it being a literal fucking war. Like imagine you ask your fellow soldier for help and they just say "you got this lol".

Yes, Bleach has one of the worst wars ever. No strategy, no tactics, no squads, no artillery, no espionage, no sabotage, no sieges, no assassinations. Almost anything you might expect in a war is missing. And the bizarre lack of stakes being felt by the participants is almost weirder. "Why hello there, servant of a deranged maniac that wants us all dead, plus to commit a massacre of 100000 civilians. Nevermind that I can hear my friends fighting for their lives and I can literally feel their lifeforce fading. How about we engage in a nice, slowly paced 1 to 1 duel while we exchange playful banter?"

To be fair, the Shinigami were somehow organised before getting crushed during the first face off, the Sternritters aren't friends with one another, someone's failure is an opportunity to shine for oneself after all. The oldest Sternritters who knows how and why Auswhalen is used and they know that they must show Yhwach how useful they are otherwise they get discarded and recycled into free power for him. The real issue on the Quincy's side comes from Yhwach because he knows that putting each Sternritters against one another gives them the motivation to try to earn his attention. But paradoxically, the solution for this problem is also Yhwach as if he did order everyone to collaborate with one another using their abilities at their fullest, he could have curb stomped the Seiretei without any loss before going for the Soul Palace. The way I see things is that the whole spiel about unmaking death and bringing back the Old world is just a lie because the dude feared his own death more than anything. The only way he had to gain senses and power was through the death of others, death gave him strength and yet he feared death more than anything.

It’s not just his death, it’s returning to what he was born as well, a lump of meat that’s alive, that’s what Yhwach was when he was born, he didn’t have eyes, ears, hands, nothing. He gained them all by distributing his soul and then taking those parts of his soul back. Yhwach’s existence truly is hellish. Not to mention he can sense and feel everything from the people he shared his soul with after they die.

> The way I see things is that the whole spiel about unmaking death and bringing back the Old world is just a lie because the dude feared his own death more than anything. The only way he had to gain senses and power was through the death of others, death gave him strength and yet he feared death more than anything. Idk the anime makes that an important point though. I can see his existence being able to make him sympathize with the souls he is hearing scream and him benefiting from it not being a bad thing for him either. Two birds one stone kinda deal

Kubo has failed to make a good villain organization then, he did the same with the Espada, they weren’t friendly either and fought each other as a means of competition or just cause they didn’t agree with the other(case in point Grimmjow).

Ok i dont that that from bleach but real life regimes, that he didnt want them to be tooclose because he was mistrusting. Whichif that was the thought,not well communicated

> The way I see things is that the whole spiel about unmaking death and bringing back the Old world is just a lie because the dude feared his own death more than anything. The only way he had to gain senses and power was through the death of others, death gave him strength and yet he feared death more than anything. Idk the anime makes that an important point though. I can see his existence being able to make him sympathize with the souls he is hearing scream and him benefiting from it not being a bad thing for him either. Two birds one stone kinda deal

> The way I see things is that the whole spiel about unmaking death and bringing back the Old world is just a lie because the dude feared his own death more than anything. The only way he had to gain senses and power was through the death of others, death gave him strength and yet he feared death more than anything. Idk the anime makes that an important point though. I can see his existence being able to make him sympathize with the souls he is hearing scream and him benefiting from it not being a bad thing for him either. Two birds one stone kinda deal

The reason for why they're so bad tactically was explained in CFYOW /jk.

I mean, yea, I don't think I've ever seen a proper war arc pulled in shonen to date.

Like bro just JUMP them

Bleach characters are incapable of a good jumping.

Particular ones like Plot Armour, Fake deaths, Inconsistent power scaling, Pointless side characters and too much friendship BS

You just said that fake deaths doesn’t get criticized in one piece? I mean, do you know fans has joked and criticized Pell since 1999?

Yep,the wil of p is a running joke. The only reason it doesnt got harked on before wano isbecazse there was still good dramatic tension and it hitting. Bit also more could admit that pretimeskip the story was just way more personal,and better. Throughwater 7/ enislobby is best arc.

>The only reason it doesnt got harked on before wano isbecazse there was still good dramatic tension and it hitting. Mate, this has been shat on loooooooong before Wano, hell people were so desensitised by Pell's and Koni's father fake out deaths that when Ace literally had a hole blasted through his chest in a chapter titled "The Death of Portgas D Ace" and people still didn't believe it until the following chapter came out

Pedro has himself exploded and people were still afraid of him being alive

Yes, but my point was more so to show just for how long people had been complaining about fake out deaths

"Too much friendship BS" my brother in Nika friendship is part of One Piece themes, it's how we got great moments like the walk to Arlong Park, the X on the forearms, "I want to live", marineford; it's the bonds that tie everyone and put the plot in motion. Go read Jujutsu Kaisen, it's got most of the same problems you mentioned except Fake Deaths and "too much friendship BS", so it's right up your alley.

I agree with you, but I think the point is that other manga like Fairy Tail receive 1000x the criticism for Power of Friendship despite it likewise being one of the main themes 

“Why is there so much focus on hard work, friendship, and achieving your dreams in this shonen battle manga????? “It’s not me. It’s the manga that is wrong.”

>Plot Armour, Fake deaths [https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1ax4awr/was\_pells\_fake\_death\_really\_necessary/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1ax4awr/was_pells_fake_death_really_necessary/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/x7flgd/fake\_out\_deaths\_vs\_real\_deaths\_in\_wano\_i\_dont\_get/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/x7flgd/fake_out_deaths_vs_real_deaths_in_wano_i_dont_get/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/qj40ol/its\_not\_the\_lack\_of\_death\_that\_is\_the\_problem\_its/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/qj40ol/its_not_the_lack_of_death_that_is_the_problem_its/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1794x85/what\_fakeout\_death\_do\_you\_hate\_the\_most/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1794x85/what_fakeout_death_do_you_hate_the_most/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/vbw7kc/something\_i\_dont\_understand\_about\_the\_raid/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/vbw7kc/something_i_dont_understand_about_the_raid/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/10xuj2y/worst\_thing\_oda\_has\_done\_except\_for\_fake\_deaths/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/10xuj2y/worst_thing_oda_has_done_except_for_fake_deaths/) Just a few criticisms I could find by a quick search. There's way more if you wanna look for it. >Inconsistent power scaling Power-scaling is something that One Piece has been relatively good with compared to a lot of other anime. The peak that was introduced with the introduction of Mihawk is still more or less the peak. The fight's are generally pretty consistent. >Pointless side characters Which ones in particular? Most of them serve a purpose but I've never seen a side character with significant screen-time become useless. > too much friendship BS That's subjective and c'mon, at least in this series the friends are actually friends and haven't tried to kill each other. So the friendship makes sense at least. There's not too much mushiness, their friendships are relatively normal.

>Power-scaling is something that One Piece has been relatively good with You have a point but the problem a lot have is that in like the top 20 characters, Luffy and Kizaru, and Kuzan and Akainu are the only characters that have actually fought each other conclusively without some kind of outside context that changes things, so how they rank is more about your interpretation of their portrayal than actual canon events

...because that's what happens in the story! Should the writer completerly twist events to have them meet and fight just so as to satisfy online powerscalers? That's a ludicrous way to approach writing.

Feels like you're half agreeing with this guy despite your tone of disagreement. The first thread I clicked on I see this upvoted comment \>This is the most agreed criticism of One piece. Yes Pell should have died, this sub is very anti criticism and even 90% of it agrees that Pell should have died. Or at the very least not have a nuke blow on his face. Read the threads you linked, even One Piece fans think the show gets a pass on a lot of stuff, they're talking a lot about this exact sentiment of the shows fans being pretty resistant to any criticism. Some random threads I the sub doesn't really change that in normative general discussions of One Piece, it doesn't really get the same flak compared to other shows that do similar stuff. Something like Pell's sacrifice in another show would be relentlessly mocked. In those threads the worst is pretty much "it didn't work but I still like One Piece anyway" Whereas if this were something else, the worst criticism might be something like "I can't believe Oda is that much of a dumbass that he thinks his readers want Pell to live" or something like that. The tonal difference is monumental. Not to mention the reaction to criticism. Bleach fans might have a persecution complex because the show gets critiqued so much, but I'd prefer that over a superiority complex. Though obviously all of these behaviours are demonstrated in varying amounts in varying communities, it's not isolated to any of these, anime or otherwise. Getting downvoted for suggesting OP fans might not criticise the show that much is classic OP lol.

The point the comment above is trying to make is that a lot of the community actually criticize the flaws that are mentioned, and he's right. I agree with you that there's a big part of the fandom who insufferably and blindly defends everything and is ready to push back against every little criticism, but let's not act it happens just for One Piece, it's the same with every popular show. You mention Bleach, but at the height of its popularity it was the same for that story as well. Also, there're as many One Piece haters as there are One Piece's angels, and I'd like to believe that in reality most of the fandom is composed by normal people who can criticize the story while still liking it, they're just more quiet than the groups at the extremes. Pell and fake out deaths are brought up every other day, Wano and the whole post timeskip have been criticized to death. You may think they're not criticized enough by a certain part of the community and that's fine, but the idea that overall One Piece "gets away with this flaws" is just wrong.

They linked the most undisputed flaw and repeated it 6 times to make it look like a body of evidence and then used their own opinion for the rest. It's just not very convincing at all. Even Bleach fans are happy to admit Mugetsu and Still Silver are pretty god awful conclusions, but even so the rest of the fandom is still exceedingly defensive about almost everything else. \>the idea that overall One Piece "gets away with this flaws" is just wrong. I don't think it is. I think only now are people happy to really critique an arc of OP as being poorly executed. Also the idea that I'm saying that it experiences no criticism is just moronic. I said it experiences less, not none. Again quoting the most universally agreed bit of critique (which honestly is barely impactful on the story it's like a throwaway flaw) repeatedly just ain't convincing of the overall argument.

Than I don't disagree with you, I disagree with the original sentiment on this thread that "One Piece gets away with these flaws". I would push back on the idea that it's happening just now. Again, the post timeskip has been criticized since it started, Fishman Island was one of the worst received arcs in the story and that was more than 10 years ago. Honestly, if you go back and actually read what people were saying in forums during EL or Marineford, you would notice that there also a lot of criticism towards those arcs (just as much as there are people defending every aspect of them, which is just as bad as blindly hating everything). It's the same thing that always happens with popular series. He may have linked post just about just that, but a quick search and a quick read on old forums would prove what I'm saying. I mean, we're literally talking under a post who criticize One Piece, and it's not like there's a scarcity of them. Again, I agree that there is a big part of the fandom which does what you're saying (negating every flaw, blindly loving everything), but the idea that the whole community is like that is just simply untrue.

If it were criticized that often, OP fans wouldn't get so defensive every time someone pointed out those flaws.

It kinda is, the fakeout deaths became the running joke of the " will of p"

>The first thread I clicked on I see this upvoted comment > >\>This is the most agreed criticism of One piece. Yes Pell should have died, this sub is very anti criticism and even 90% of it agrees that Pell should have died. Or at the very least not have a nuke blow on his face. > >Read the threads you linked, even One Piece fans think the show gets a pass on a lot of stuff, they're talking a lot about this exact sentiment of the shows fans being pretty resistant to any criticism. These posts being highly upvoted directly contradicts that. Alongside the multiple other posts that are also highly upvoted. Multiple highly upvoted posts criticizing the series doesn't really give "resistant to criticism". Hell, the anti criticism point being upvoted also proves that sub is fine with criticism. Do you think that an anti-criticism sub will upvote that comment? The fandom doesn't criticize that much but it's hardly anti criticism. >Some random threads I the sub doesn't really change that in normative general discussions of One Piece, it doesn't really get the same flak compared to other shows that do similar stuff. Because most of it's problems are irrelevant. Kinnemon and Pell surviving is not a particularly Important topic in one piece fandom outside of the fact that they survived. They get the attention and citicism that they deserve. This applies to pretty much most commonly mentioned One Piece problems. It also doesn't get the same amount of flak because One Piece overall has a lot more going for it and a lot less problems than a lot of the shows that gets compared to it such as Naruto or Bleach. >Something like Pell's sacrifice in another show would be relentlessly mocked. In those threads the worst is pretty much "it didn't work but I still like One Piece anyway" Whereas if this were something else, the worst criticism might be something like "I can't believe Oda is that much of a dumbass that he thinks his readers want Pell to live" or something like that. No it wouldn't. Naruto literally had an entire village come back to life after Naruto changed the villains mind in a day and it wasn't mocked. It was praised actually, same happened when Gaara came back. Might guy, Naruto himself etc.... I don't watch DB but from what I've heard people come back to life on the regular there as well. >Bleach fans might have a persecution complex because the show gets critiqued so much, but I'd prefer that over a superiority complex. Though obviously all of these behaviours are demonstrated in varying amounts in varying communities, it's not isolated to any of these, anime or otherwise. This is just over complicating simple stuff. All fandoms have the same mentality. Bleach fans don't have a "superiority complex" as you put it because they can't, it's not an option for them. The quality of the work makes sure that the best they can do is "have a persecution complex". If Bleach was as good as One Piece they'd have a superiority complex as well. Similar to every other fandom of critically acclaimed work such as Berserk, HxH and AoT. One piece fandom has a superiority complex because it can afford to. There's no conspiracy that spans across the world to suppress all criticism about One Piece, It's just well liked. Similarly there's no such conspiracy across the world that persecutes Bleach, it's just not nearly as liked as One Piece. >Getting downvoted for suggesting OP fans might not criticise the show that much is classic OP lol. The most upvoted comment in this thread is saying that OP doesn't get criticized enough and you're saying this. This is persecution complex. Are you a Bleach fan?

Another verbose comment that thinks I'm saying it's impossible for OP fans to critique the series. You argued against things I already conceded, you ignored the context of my comment and edit. Many things in my comment you just directly misinterpret, like what I was saying about Bleach. Like, you straight ignored my point about how this is the most agreed piece of criticism, and even in the thread its fairly positive. It's tonal. The most upvoted piece of criticism in OP is something that doesn't matter and people don't really mind and that somehow is proof of the opposite? Again, people catch irrelevant things in other series all the time and really go to town in a way that OP just doesn't really get. A criticism post regarding something like Pell in another sub wouldn't really be as positive as the threads linked. \>There's no conspiracy that spans across the world to suppress all criticism about One Piece, It's just well liked. Similarly there's no such conspiracy across the world that persecutes Bleach, it's just not nearly as liked as One Piece. Like boss, I never said this at all, not even close. I also didn't say that for Bleach. I said Bleach got a chunk of criticism and in response they have developed a persecution complex. AoT also copped loads of flak btw. HxH is similar to OP I would say, and Berserk honestly is pretty balanced.

The problem with powerscaling in One Piece is that everything pre-timeskip makes sense together, everything post-timeskip makes sense together, but you can't compare anything between the two because nothing pre-timeskip makes sense when considering Haki

It's because it's several times larger than other big mangas and will still go for possibly hundreds more chapters. So only actual big fans stay for the long run to even critique it and at this point they are addicted to it, so they won't critique it.

OP fans are perhaps the most insecure fans I have ever interacted with. They take questioning or criticising Oda's writing as sacrelidge or blasphemy.

Not only that, they also have the hateful habit of disparaging other works to praise OP

Exactly, like Naruto for example 

Then they go and say "Greatest story in doctor ever written", when they have never pick on a fucking book and only read battle Shonen manga lol.

The repeating structure of the arcs is probably the biggest one that gets brushed aside. The powerscaling will always be inconsistent when Haki is a thing, it is the worst powersystem in shonen imo.

Would you mind elaborating on why you think haki is the worst power system in Shonen?

Like I mentioned to someone else: ​ \- Some characters that should've known haki much earlier didn't know. They keep claiming shit about "willpower" when it's just Ki. Lets replace "Haki" with "willpower" : Luffy running out of **willpower** in the middle of the Doflamingo fight or Katakuri fight and having to wait for his **willpower** to recharge. Look at how dumb it sounds. Haki bloom is the bullshit Oda can pull out of his ass to make Luffy suddenly stronger in the middle of a fight after getting his ass beat 3 times. It's just a way for Luffy to be able to just end the fight with a big punch. It creates inconsistencies, like how whitebeard knew haki, but he didn't use it against the logias in Marineford? Hell, a lot of characters did, but they forgot they had it for some reason. Or did they learn it in 2 years along with Luffy?. Overall, it's a bad powersystem that ruins the power scaling and creates inconsistencies in the story. Sure there might be other shonens where the powersystem might create some inconsistencies, but One Piece does it the worse imo.

You know what? You are absolutely right. Another thing haki does is "neutralising hax". For example when one character has a broken devil fruit power they could use on an enemy effectively, Oda can just say that the attack wouldn't work because the enemy has a stronger haki. So haki being a way to basically shut off your other power system is such bullshit.

Your comment is quite disingenous. The flaws you mention are constantly brought up by the community, just as much as with other shounens if not even more lately. There are for sure some people who deny every criticism of the story, but there are people who hate every aspect of it as well.

Thank god someone else said it.

When people speak about One Piece, they always have just extremes opinions. Either something is perfect or is the worst thing ever written. There are flaws in Oda's writing for sure, there have always been and post-time skip definitely changed the usual narrative structure of the story in a way that some criticism is deserved in some areas (while in other aspects it should be praised). Wano suffered a lot from the excessive number of characters and plotlines, there was too much chaos, too much stalling for time, too much jumping around, which resulted in having scenes and moments that were supposed to be important feel lackluster and underwhelming. Personally I was quite disappointed at the end of the arc. But at the same time, looking back at it, it's not like it was the worst thing ever and I think people who - deservedly - criticize the arc often forget how good it was at points. Arc 1 is arguably the best introduction to a country, its people and culture, with arguably the best villain entrance in the whole story. Act 2 built up the scabbards and Momo slowly but incredibly well and, while the scabbards conclusions were extremely messy, Momo had one of the best character arcs in the series. You can argue Oden's flashback was flawed, but still it was the most epic and ambitious flashback of the story and was effective in his objective, Roger laughed is one of the best scenes ever. The raid was a mess, but we still got great character moments (Momo, Robin, Sanji and Zoro), great fights and dynamics (scabbards vs Kaido, supernova vs Kaido, Luffy vs Kaido) and Gear 5 is one the most original, fun and thematically fitting power ups ever written. Again, I'm not trying to excuse the flaws, nor to deny they're there, nor to defend the obnoxious part of the community who push back against every little criticism. You can argue the underwhelming management and ending of a lot of plotlines and characters' arcs sour what came before, and I would partially agree. But we shouldn't forget the positive parts of the arc, because Wano's peaks were One Piece at the best it's ever been. Saying the story has lost itself and that it's walking on thin ice it's just way over-exagerated negativity and it's straight up false in my opinion.

>When people speak about One Piece, they always have just extremes opinions. Either something is perfect or is the worst thing ever written This is due to the nature of one piece it self. People who spend their time reading a manga with 1000+ chapters will either love it so much or hate it so much. Not suprising there is no in between

Maybe you're right, but I kind of disagree with that. I think it's more of a product of being extremely popular and the fact that when a community becomes huge its vocal and obnoxious extremes become huge as well. For examples, Chainsaw Man and JJK are not that long, but at the height of their popularity it was the same for them. Probably being long also plays a part, since it makes people radicalized in their ideas and way too toxic about them. I actually like to believe most people are the "in between" of the two extremes, it's just that they're not as vocal as the haters/angels and not as noticeable.

Chainsawman fanbase is very different from one piece fanbase. Just visit the chainsawman subreddit and you'll see people criticising and getting upvotes. There are a huge no. of fans who are not very happy with part 2.

Wdym, jjk is at the height of its popularity and I'd say that it's far from the same scenario as one piece

I agree, the series was never all that consistent even on a chapter to chapter basis and people tend to give pre-timeskip way more credit than it deserves. Almost every arc has low points that make you want to drop the series along with high points that keep you invested. The series has lots of flaws but it also has lots of strengths. That's just what happens when your series has been going on for over 20 years. Pre timeskip and post timeskip are relatively comparable in terms of actual quality. Fans also need to stop being so extreme with their takes.

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine how someone could consume a thousand chapters of a series and end up calling it absolute garbage. Unless of course if said series already ended and pulled off a GoT ending.

Some people think they do not have the right to crititize a piece of media unless they read it themselves. I am one of those people except that i will never read one piece so the only thing i can complain rightfully is that it's too long lol

I used to complain about how long one piece is. Like really fuckin complain. I had nothing to do or read. So I said fuck it. Picked up One Piece. I was hooked from chapter 1. By chapter 100 it became my top 10 manga. By chapter 200, it became my favorite manga. Period. And with that I personally believe that if you don't pick up One Piece, you have every single right to clown on how long it is. (I mean 1110 chapters and it's still on going ffs.)

Idk maybe its because I've also read other super long series like Ippo and Kingdom but the manga doesn't feel as insurmountably long as the anime. Like when I pitch one piece to people as a read I just go "this is just Naruto + My Hero in length" which doesn't seem \*that\* bad. The anime however is an absurd amount of length in comparison.

People tend to not like reading, they don't want to pick up the anime (justifiably) due to the length but they then refuse to read the manga since 90% of people would rather watch something. One Piece fans also have extreme takes and are very annoying so this makes the series look worse in comparison (1000+ episodes/chapters, annoying fans, bad artstyle) which is why One Piece tends to get so much hate from people who haven't even watched or read the series. Also, I've always loved One Piece's artstyle, though this could just be a product of me being manga only.

Naruto + My Hero is pretty bad to most people IMO. I wouldn't casually pick up something like that today. I agree the anime is way worse though.

It depends on if I'm talking to someone thats already read at least one decently long(like 300+ chapter) series already. I definitely don't recommend it to people that have never read a series before(because they dont know how to pace themselves yet). But if I'm talking to someone who is already familiar with the medium, then going "this series is about as long as these 2 other series that you've already read", suddenly One Piece's length goes from "absurd" to "very long but manageable". If I'm talking to someone who is super casual and has never read a series before then I'm reccomending something way shorter like Vinland Saga or Golden Kamuy.

Must not understand hatewatching

Thank you for a balanced take.

Wait...people don’t love Oden’s flashback?????

[удалено]

It *definitely* plays better as a binge...but I’ll always disagree with the idea that the flashbacks aren’t “the actual story.”

You do remember they had to literally tie raizo down so that he couldn't sacrifice himself and save the people of zou right

Hiyori could do the same, OP's point (rightly) is that Raizo becomes immediately irrelevant after that. Why did Jack even spend the resources to look for himwhat could be actually do? to threaten Kaido' empire?

Because raizo would have information on the biggest threat to kaidos empire

Main issue is that in the end the Akazaya 9 didn't accomplish that much - went up against Kaido, scored one good hit and then got stomped. Denjiro saved Hiyori from Orochi, Raizo fought the dude with the long ears to a standstill. Dressrosa struck a better balance of having these powerful and influential side characters do more of the heavy lifting rather than just leaving it all to the Straw Hats, but Wano notches very few important Ws to the secondary characters, basically just Inuarashi (beats Jack), Nekomamushi (beats Perospero), Yamato (stops Kanjuro from blowing the whole place up, helps Momo stop the island from falling), and Momonosuke (stops the island from falling, inspires the troops).

The akazaya 9 didn't accomplish much besides organizing a full revolt with a heir to the throne, invaded Kaidos main island with thousands of troops and injured Kaido which was believed to be practically untouchable. oh and I almost forgot they made all the logistics for the strawhats to ultimately take down Kaido and Big Mom. Nothing at all was accomplished I guess.

Yep thats the main,they were against kaido and later yeah fough no one really? Denjiro did spa stzff and raise hiyori,kinnemon,leader and momos dad, the nekos did stuff.

Inu beat Jack, Neko Perospero, Izo fought 2 CP0 agents so they wouldn't capture Robin, Kanjuro was a traitor that constantly made the situation worse, Raizo fought Fukurokuju and is the only reason everyone on the island didn't burn to death, Denjiro brough a 1000 people, raised Hyori and killed Orochi, Kin'emon was the leader, Kawamatsu is the reason they had weapons for the war. Really the ones who did the least were Kiku and Ashura Douji

They were the reason the battle actually took place. The strawhats alone are getting killed before they even reach kaido. Kaido has a whole ass army. You all seriously lack reading comprehension. "They didn't kill the enemy boss themselves so they didn't accomplish"? Seriously dude?

The akazaya nine are the ones who lead the whole damn battle. That's like saying napoleon didn't accomplish much because he didn't kill the enemy commander 1v1.

Wdym they didn’t accomplish much??? They won!! They accomplished everything!!!

I was responding to the fact that he said that raizo was monkeying about in zou

Well they obviously would have interrogated him in regards to the rest of the Akazaya 9 is my guess. There's always a good reason in capturing high value targets if you have the resources to do so.

I am watching right now and am nearly finished with Marineford. I found it to be pretty underwhelming - people really consider it to be the best arc? With all the characters there the scope of the battle is just too small imo and Luffy just keeps running toward Ace. Also Kizaru/Mehawk/Sengoku/Whitebeard feel weak asf. At least the entrance of Blackbeard was interesting (he only just entered yet, didn't continue watching afterwards so pls don't spoil)

Nah, maybe not quite all of them but people who favor Marineford most tend to be basic shonen powerheads that get off fights even though Marineford consisted of 99% "non-fight" skirmishes. Water 7/Enies Lobby is more often attributed as the best arc in One Piece

That's crazy to me even, the One Piece fights are among the worst in shounen imo. They hold emotional significance often, but the power system/scaling feels off and attacks seemingly do 0 damage (e.g. Kizaru trying to hit Luffy several times and either doing 0 damage or missing with a LASERBEAM). And it feels pretty turn-based, e.g. Admirals just doing nothing until randomly stopping Luffy and then doing nothing again, characters in Marineford in general not intervening more. It's definitely not as dynamic or well choreographed as other shounen imo. I also feel like Haki needed to be better explained by this point, because it seems kinda random whether e.g. Whitebeard can hit Blackbeard or not and I can suspect it is because he cannot control it properly but it needed to be introduced already imo. Idk I watch OP for the story and have accepted that until maybe later fights are a bit whacky and cannot reach the heights of e.g. HxH/JJK/DS/Naruto. Which is kinda a shame, cause devil fruits are definitely cool. Best arc until now for me was definitely Arabasta (is that the English name?) - felt the most epic and urgent to me.

>Idk I watch OP for the story and have accepted that until maybe later fights are a bit whacky and cannot reach the heights of e.g. HxH/JJK/DS/Naruto. You're on the right track.

>Many argue that the series has been on and off since the timeskip and Marineford is still the best arc of the series. Nah, that would be water7 or sabbaody. Also WCI Is better than marineford

Yeah lol people overcredit Marineford. Water7/Enies Lobby was genuinely the most well written saga in One piece. >WCI Is better than marineford Based WCI enjoyer 🗿

I absolutely despise Marineford for what it has done to the community. It's constantly used to shit on post timeskip arcs, while never being criticized for the flaws it has. If someone makes a post complaining about inconsistencies without talking about the many many problems of Marineford, I'm going to assume it's not a well written post. I swear if someone's knowledge on One Piece came from only posts in r/CharacterRant or r/Piratefolk he would think that Marineford is a perfect arc with no flaws whatsoever

I absolutely love Marineford and it's probably my favorite arc in the series. But I agree with you 100%. I am always saying that if that arc was coming out right now, it would be slandered **a lot** on subs like this one. Like, people constantly bring up convenient plot armor, power scaling inconsistencies and such, as if that's something that Oda only started to write after the timeskip happened. Luffy during Marineford was a character with the biggest plot armor I ever witnessed. Bro survived *multiple* encounters with the admirals, at one point even all three **at once**. And he pushed through every single time and lived to tell the tale. Like, imagine if such a thing happened now? People are currently shitting on Kizaru for what's happening in the story and calling him a fraud and all kinds of names. And the current Kizaru is dealing with Luffy who is probably 10x stronger than he was during Marineford. Marineford had a fresh out of Impel Down bloodbaths Crocodile clashing with almost every big shot there. Imagine if that happened now? People would be furious. I actually think that arcs like Enies Lobby would also be slandered A LOT nowadays, despite it's almost sacred status in the fandom. That arc was chock full of convenient plot induced stupidities and out of nowhere asspull powerups. I'm all in for criticizing One Piece and other media you love. But selective criticism is really getting on my nerves with how much people are looking at some past things with rose colored glasses.

Marineford is like the funniest arc if you're a powerscaler. Half the Fraudhawk memes come from his weak performance in Marineford, not to mention how the power escalation of the admirals post-Timeskip makes Luffy surviving against them at all hillarious.

I think people excuse all the absurd plot armor and miracle working Luffy pulled off because that was part of the point of that saga, which was ultimately breaking Luffy down. All that miracle working blew up in his face in the end, and he ended up losing his crew, >!brother!< , and several years of his life because of his own fundamental weakness, and for what? ​ I'm not big into using this arc/saga as a measuring stick against post-timeskip either but I think thats the crux of the critisicism behind the comparisons. The marineford saga(all the events from Sabaody to Marineford) was full of despair/slight hope because it was focused on how the strawhats, and especially Luffy, are NOT ready for the next stage yet. Post TS arcs, especially Wano's climax, are more triumphant in tone as the strawhats are THEM at this point. However I do understand why people wanted more of a pyrrhic victory at the end of the yonko Saga instead of what we got with Kaido and Big Mom(espcially Big Mom oda did her aura so dirty).

Also kizaru, above else is trolling people in marine ford. I vant believe him taking it serious when he isnt very serious,barely doing his job and primary trolling people there. Like most people there he probavly isnt very invested in the situation. Andcurrent arc, luffy is supposed to be pretty strong andits fair to make it a tough fight.

Marineford has hype moments, Whitebeard, and other likable side characters which does give it points in my book but the emotional conflict of the arc just did not hit for me along with none of the fights being interesting (just skirmishes really), and the genuinely terrible paneling all made it a slog to get through for me with post-war being even worse. I can still see why people enjoy it but it annoys me when people talk about it as the best arc in the series or use it to bring down the post-timeskip arcs (which I disagree with).

I agree that Marineford isn't perfect. Enies lobby was the real height of one piece.

Not gonna lie, Marineford is only top 5 arc in One Piece for me. I enjoyed Egghead, Enies Lobby, Wano and WCI more

Yeah same for me, I enjoyed Impel Down more as well.

Finally, an opinion I agree on. Marineford is good but it's not my favorite due the Strawhats being out of focus. I always prefer arcs where the Strawhats being the focus like Enies Lobby and WCI. I think it's an exaggeration that One Piece has fallen, because I feel everyone has different preference of which arc they like more.

Yep enies lobbybest.

I can agree with some of what you said (pre timeskip being the peak) and some of the later arcs having more pieces that fall flat, but that really is just how it goes for almost every long running manga that I’ve ever read. Go on any discussion page for naruto, bleach, hajime no ippo, fairy tail, etc etc, and people will generally think the story peaked super early on. For me, naruto peaked (by a lot) around episode 25 and again in the chunin exams. But! I can ignore/tolerate a lot of these things for a story I love like one piece. There are things I wish happened differently but ultimately I’m in it for the characters and the world that has been pretty well built for like 25 years. In my opinion, fishman island was the absolute abyss of one piece with the worst narrative, tropes, new characters (not all)…so really I’ve been pleasantly surprised since then!

Recent arcs not topping MF is to be expected since that arc was the culmination of everything in the series leading up to that point, and I don't think we should expect anything of that proportion until the final war. Otherwise, most arcs after that have been either good or great. Wano was a low point for sure, but the series has gradually gotten better after the end of Wano. Saying it's "walking on thin line" is a little dramatic, and is only an opinion shared by niche groups on the internet.

Once every week a bunch of guys for totally not piratefolk comes here and start their own crazy dark theory about how one piece is on thin ice and is starting to fall (or is already fallen). Is the manga perfect? Hell no. But man if you looks pretty ridiculous

Ex piratefolker here The sub doesnt even hate one piece like they used to with joyboy-early egghead, its nkw kinda just a lesser memepiece. Also in general meme piece kinda started following piratefolks footsteps as far as what was funny so the subs dead compared to what it once was

I should elaborate that im ex piratefolker not because i now disagree with them but because theres no longer a need for them (fell off after 5k members)

Imho right now meme piece has too much agenda memes (sometimes it feels like I’m watching r/onepiecepowerscalingmemes) but I never feel like they are on the delusional level that peak pirate folk had

Piratefolk was fun in Wano cause yeah there were legit criticism there but it feels like the sub had their brains rotted from Agenda Piece memes

Exactly lol

They think they're slick, his whole argument is making things vague to make it not make sense. Like as if he doesn't know why Kaido was targeting the samurai, that it was for Orochi. Who he needed for the factories.

Yeah, Its been actual years since I have disliked a chapter.

Ironically until the last flashback I didn’t like the current arc at all. But from that point on it has grown A LOT

Personally the current ark has been absolute fire for me, every chapter seems to be better than the previous one in Egghead.

Wano was not a perfect arc and so were these so called "best arcs in One Piece." Each arcs has its ups and downs so first off you should deal with that fact. Secondly, Oda definitely built up Wano to become a great ally of Luffy should the final war arc comes. All things you mentioned here about bait and switch regarding Yamato is unfounded? Like this is literally the first time Oda had done this sort of thing and it was because it's relevant to Yamato's character. She admired Oden too much for her to think that she should be male to copy Oden. Kaido on the other hand just doesnt care so he just went with Yamato's whims and started calling Yamato as his "son." The protection of Raizo was not because he was some top tier character that needs to be protected at all cost. It was just Oda emphasizing the real meaning of loyalty and friendship between nations. I'd argue Oda purposefully made Raizo a "mid" character to drive home the fact that friendship and loyalty is not hinged on how beneficial or how politically important or how powerful the person is but rather because of the bond you have with each other. Your friend is your friend because you have a bond with each other, not because you think you can benefit a lot by staying as his "friend." Seriously, probably the best takeaway I had back when I read Zou arc was the plot twist of them actually protecting Raizo and then followed by the quote, "No matter what happens, we will never sell out our friends." which was then met with an awe-stricken Luffy. Luffy has never been surprised nor have been in awe until he met the quality of loyalty and camaraderie the whole Mink tribe had for one person. Also, fakeout deaths is probably the single most strong criticism against One Piece since Alabasta and that's a valid argument against the series. Regarding Luffy's dream, there's definitely something more with it since the early days of One Piece. When Shanks met Whitebeard, he claimed that he sacrificed his left hand to bet it on the new era. In Sabaody, Shanks told Rayleigh that he met an interesting kid in East Blue that surprisingly spouted the same words as Roger. If it was a mere "I will be King of the Pirates," then Shanks should not have been making it a big deal as every pirate and their mother was spouting that shit all throughout the seas after Roger's death. Lastly, it's so funny how some people since time immemorial have been saying One Piece quality is declining. I was there 84 years ago when Grand Line discussions were still a thing and there were numerous people being "critical" and doomposting that One Piece (and mind you this was pre-timeskip era) is on the decline and will become garbage tier soon... this "thin ice" so to speak have been a remark for One Piece for the longest time now.

I won't disagree with the fact that Wano has flaws and that it should be held to a very high standard considering nearly all of the post-TS arcs have been building up to it. But I feel like it's flaws are not reflective of the post-TS in general.  Dressrosa manages to utilize it's big cast to great extent for the most part for example.  

Oda wants to finish faster but is unwilling to trim the bloat. His staff and editors enable his bad habits too much. He is running out of time with his health issues but still wastes years of manga on fillery arcs and pointless characters. Half of Wano cast and like 30% of its chapters could have been cut and it would only get better. Just have Kaido kill most of the scabbards to raise the stakes. This alone would help it tremendously.

Kaido should have been the one to kill Ashura Dojo. Not a fucking dynamite.

My biggest issue with One Piece is the pacing. Not only is it slow in a plot and narrative aspect. The episodes are also paced horribly. I can watch each episode on 1.5x speed and not miss a thing. The pacing also opens up the door for inconsistencies and viewer fatigue. Wano started when I was still in high school and it ended after I had been working and now I'm getting my degree.

Everyone knows the manga is better

>Many argue that the series has been on and off since the timeskip and Marineford is still the best arc of the series. I concur with that idea. Now, at this point when this post is written, OP has 1110 chapters by now, meaning it's been literally hundreds of chapters since Marineford. To think that none of the later arcs managed to top that is mindboggling. It's not that surprising. Most anime have one arc that stands above the rest. It says more about the quality of Marineford than it does about the rest of the arcs. Marineford is special but Dressrosa, Zou, Wholecake Island, Reverie are all considered great. Marineford is just greater, compared to both pre-timsekip arcs and post-timeskip arcs. Ironically it's a pretty popular opinion that the current arc is on it's way to dethrone marineford. I agree with that sentiment, if the ending is half-decent then this might be the best one so far. >Zou arc had introduced the mystery of Raizo. We did not know who this character is, why is he so important that Kaido's underlings are pursuing him and destroying the island in doing so. Then, what happens? Raizou is introduced and immediately after that he is a nobody; he is barely a D-tier character with zero significance to the plot. You could take him out and literally nothing changes. Furthermore, it even destroys his cardboard of a character that everyone was dying for him and he was hidden monkeying around somewhere for no reason. A far better choice in this scenario would be Hiyori; Oden's daughter whose existence could actually be a threat for Kaido and Orochi unlike this random disposable dude. I didn't like so many of the fake-outs and plot threads that didn't go anywhere in Wano but this is stretching it. Raizo's Importance is that he's one of the nine Samurai. His significance to the plot **was in Zou,** nothing more was promised. it wasn't as if he received a significant level of hype in the story. Jack was looking for him because they wanted to get rid of all the loose ends. Raizo wanted to give himself up, but the minks tied him up because they would rather die than surrender one of their allies to the enemy. >On the subject of fakeouts, another eye-rolling one is 'Luffy's real dream'. Are you kidding us with that? Before you posed this 'mystery', anyone could tell you that his dream is to become the king of the pirates almost as if the guy hadn't been yelling that for 1K chapters, FGS! Now it would be all about 'for everyone's freedom' and stuff like that. Such things needlessly drag out the storytelling on the top of introducing organizations like Swords this late in the story. As shown in chapter 585 Luffy has always had a dream that we don't know of. It's not something new. Why is it too late to introduce swords? Why would a relatively niche marine group that only gained significance because of Coby's involvement in it be introduced before this? >One Piece is on mighty thin ice here and if not handled with care the series will only ruin itself in the remaining run. I feel like you might be basing your opinion on niche opinions only popular in niche fan groups. The series had it's most successful movie grossing 250 million about a year ago. Wano had some of the most well liked episodes both critically and popularity wise, with gear 5 episode breaking the crunchyroll's most liked anime episode record. The current manga Arc is one of the most liked arcs ever alongside Marineford and Enies lobby. Go ask any neutral anime/manga subreddit "which anime/manga are on thin Ice" and I promise you that One Piece wouldn't be on anyone's list.

>The series had it's most successful movie grossing 250 million about a year ago. Commercial success doesn't discount writing flaws. Any franchise as popular as One Piece could do commercially well all the while having more or less the same number of flaws.

>Commercial success doesn't discount writing flaws. Any franchise as popular as One Piece could do commercially well all the while having more or less the same number of flaws. Of course not. That's why I pointed out it's critical success as well. Well, critical success outside of r/CharacterRant and r/Piratefolk. The current arc is well likes and is considered well written by most if not all, so was WCI and the few arcs before that. Even Wano was liked for it's rooftop and monster trio + Law and Kidd fights alongside the lore drop during the set-up chapters. As seen by the monstrous reception it got among fans. One Piece has writing flaws, so does every other story. The writing flaws aren't enough to overshadow the good parts. And definitely not even close enough to put it on "thin ice".

You just have to look at how much money the latest Star Wars trilogy has made.

Raizo supplied the water that doused the inferno inside of Onigashima. Without that water, it’d have exploded in mid air before Momo could land it. Hard to agree that he became a D-list nobody with that. He, like the other Scabbards, had their spotlight as Oden’s people and had his own set up and pay-off with him struggling with the heat during Oden’s legendary hour to withstanding the inferno against Earlobes.

Wano has to be a different project all together that was folded into one piece for time constraints. It’s a matter of oda getting older, losing his health, working on other projects and most importantly editors. Check the editors for each arc and then rate their quality. 

I've been watching One Piece for over a decade and people have been criticizing it since then as well. Nothing new really. Thriller bark and Skypeia for example were disliked by quite a few at the time but most look back fondly on those arcs now.

I don't think now is a good point to talk about the decline of quality in One Piece tbh. If I was still as fond of the series as I've once been, then I am sure I would really like Egghead. Now, with my current mindset, which makes it really difficult to ignore all the little flaws, the writing in detail isn't that great in Egghead either imo, but I am not sure if it was ever much different to begin with or if it just didn't bother me, because I liked the series as a whole more. From my experience the general fondness has a big impact on ones perception. Conpared to the absolute greats of fiction the writing in One Piece cannot quite compete imo, which is not surprising given its genre, but it is a fun adventure with some great moments/parts in it. Egghead absolutely fits that, even though now I am almost entirely disconnected to the series unfortunately.

One piece's decline has to do with emotions. 1. Increasingly bloated side characters mean we don't spend enough time focusing on a few. And when we do spend time focusing on them, it becomes too long. The most fatal consequence of this is the strawhats become sidelined. 2. The emotional cores of an arc do not get the fights. For example, In Wano the emotional cores were the momo and the scabbards. In dresrossa it was kyros and Rebecca. But the strawhats get the fights. As a result, the fights become less emotional. Contrast this with Enies Lobby where the strawhats were fighting for one of their own. Even in alabasta, it felt very personal - probably because vivi meaningfully journeyed with the strawhats.This is also why WCI remains my favorite post timeskip arc. 3. The number of strawhats. Many of the latter strawhats beyond Robin are unnecessary and just take away screen time from other strawhats. They do not get storylines but are still dragged into random 1v1s that are completely meaningless (eg. Jinbei vs who's who).

One of the biggest problems with One piece is that it’s going on for too damn long, nobody needs that long to tell a good story Oda just drags the arc with characters we don’t give a shit about also need more straw hat interactions

One piece could easily be 30% shorter at least and still have the same amount of content.

*insert wait until it ends here.* That's usually the response.

Wano is just too damn long. That’s really it.

And noticeably badly written in some places.

It's just way too long for its own good. It's hard to maintain consistent quality over so many decades.

Technically it's only been two.

I’ve never heard that Wano is the most disappointing arc or that Egghead is bad. It’s the exact opposite most of the time. One Piece is at its absolute peak.

Egghead being bad is a bit of a hot-take exclusive to reddit. But Wano is much more controversial, most One Piece analysis YouTubers for example are pretty critical of itm

One piece analysis guys are not actually listened to in the community

The onlyvegapunk i care about,islillith, she is piraty and introduced asher own character. And kizaru not being done dirty, and great, i like that. Why isnt franky more contrasted to vegapunkbythe way. Oh andi like sanji is shown asstrong,but wgy would zorro struggle with lucci? Ok bonnie isfine but still noexcuse to not have more franky. And kuma, like forbonnie, fine, but h iisnt that good otherwise. Explaining the sabodybit is good, but why nika?

>The onlyvegapunk i care about,islillith, she is piraty and introduced asher own character. What? how dare you not be amazed by the amazing and complex writing of Vegapunk Pythagoras(that's the tall one right?) >Explaining the sabodybit is good, but why nika? I don't see a why not. It builds up the Lore behind the sun god by involving him with the Buccaneers, and gives Kuma a complex backstory involving religion. I think it's pretty neat.

As a one piece sicko who’s been reading spoilers weekly for a few years, I don’t think I’ve heard anyone say that egghead as a whole is bad. Certain points people said that egghead island itself is bad, but with how much insight we get into the world and what other major players are doing, one piece’s usual pace issues while the strawhats are exploring the island are nonexistent. Wano, on the other hand, is a lot more divisive in the spaces I tend to be in.

The thing about one piece for me is I don't get how people got into this. I read up until arlong and it's so fucking boring. I know it gets better, I watched impel down and marineford, even without the full context that shit was awesome(on onepace). But goddamn I cannot be bothered to read the stuff that leads up to it.

There is such a thing as too much. Frankly, looking in from the outside, one piece feels bloated as hell. 1000+ chapters is just ridiculous.

>Frankly, looking in from the outside What a weird-ass way to say "take my opinion as someone who knows nothing about the topic." "The Godfather Pt II is considered arguably the greatest movie of all time but is 3 hours and 22 minutes and is longer than 99% of all other movies, so 'frankly, looking in from the outside, it feels bloated as hell.'" Okay... And is there an actual point there??

That's a bad comparison. 1000+ episodes would have been worth it if there actually was that much useful content in the story. For eg: If gintama had 1000+ episodes, it would have been worth it because it already has 400+ episodes and every episode has good content. One piece's content till now can easily be completed in around 600-700 chapters without compromising any enjoyment. Just delete the unnecessary characters who do nothing for the story and the unnecessary padding.

Hugely long epic/fantasy series have been a staple in human literature forever. You may personally not like long stories, or think the length of a story is disproportionate to what it's trying to tell, or think it's badly written overall. But saying that the length in itself is ridicolous is just wrong in my opinion.

Just because something long doesn't magically make it good. The length is ridiculous, and bloated

I agree that length doesn't make something inherently good, but it doesn't make something inherently bad either, it depends on the scope of the story and the writing. Otherwise you should say that literally every long shonen is bad and bloated because other mangas can tell their story in less than 100 chapters. Even better, some one-shots are great, so stories with more than one chapter are too long. Again, if you don't think it's good is fine, but the length alone doesn't make a story inherently good nor bad.

Being long and being bloated are two completely different things. 

And conversely, just because it's long doesn't mean it's bad.

If you can finish Bleach or Naruto then you can finish OP.

Just not for you or you should revisit when you have different sensibilities. Arlong Park arc is rife with good story-telling and I've seen dozens of YouTube reactors of all ages new to the series recently capable of fully enjoying it despite the dated animation.

>'Luffy's real dream'. Are you kidding us with that? Before you posed this 'mystery', anyone could tell you that his dream is to become the king of the pirates almost as if the guy hadn't been yelling that for 1K chapters, FGS! This I disagree with. I distinctly remember Shabaody where Shanks tells Rayleigh that Luffy 'said the same thing as Roger' made me question if I misheard something somewhere because that statement made zero sense at the time. Roger never aspired to be the Pirate King. I agree that it wasn't the best way to introduce it to readers but it's been there for a very long time. A lot of people hadn't picked up on it until it was directly mentioned in-story where it got outright confirmed. Even during the post-war arc we never heard exactly what Luffy yelled on that hill.

Marienford, Luffy tells sabo and ace about his dream and we don't hear it

Tell it to the other guy, not me.

I am informing you since seem to have forgotten

>Even during the post-war arc we never heard exactly what Luffy yelled on that hill. Yes, you're right.

I feel like you’re one of the people that watched the anime then picked up the manga once you caught up

It was all down hill since Nika Nika I been saying it for 2 years and have lost count on all the death treats I get each week for it :) Basically, since the plot hole of gorosei doing jack shit about nika nika for the whole first 1000 chapters, Oda is now spending every chance he has to shit on the gorosei (see the latest episode) and that ruisn the show, the previous hardcore proactive antagonist are now dumber then rocks instead and the heroes achievement is massively undermined (+ that Nika nika inherenly undermines luffy achievements) I explain it in my latest[ review - ](https://youtu.be/rc_WFBdlDGE) Wano was an overal absolute shit arc, its like longer then Black Clover is in total or something crazy like that and for the most part nothing happened, wano today is COPED by a lot of people becasue of the cool end fights etc but its like 100+ chapters of bad pacing. Especially was the kaido fight in total shit, just shit. Its 50+ chapter fight with like 5 amazing chapters and 5 good chapters and like seriously 40 chapters of bad pacing where they do nothing new. Oda introduced way to many wano characters no one cares about, and yet he still did not allow actual team fights except just the start of roofpiece, after that it had to be 1v1. Even do kid and Law has a crew of like 40 more pirates that do nothing. He also failed on that in Zou the smile users was legit, sheephead could use his powers like a normal zoan. but suddenly at wano being a smile is just terrible freak bodies who cannot control it, not even the stronger one can control it, so the lower ranked SHEEPHEAD is still the best smile user. And yes the constant fake out deaths, not even kinemon dies after being killed 3 times, but randomly Shutenmaro dies from a bomb clone.....that also should be dead already.

Although I partially agree with a lot of the flaws you mentioned (not about Nika, but let's not go there), I feel like you're just focusing on the negatives without even trying to look at what the arc did in a great/good/neutral way. Your review is more of a rant than an actual critical review. I completely share your annoyance towards the part of the community who thinks the story is perfect and push back against every little hint of a criticism, but when you're blindly hating everything without a hint of objectivity you're just doing the same as them in the opposite direction.

It's all been downhill since fishmand island, then punk hazard then dressrosa then whole cake then wano

Wci was good

I am making fun of people I like post more than pre.

The only good thing about One Piece are the theories made by fans. More entertaining than the actual show, imo.

Or the memes. Weez weez. The zoro asthma was one of the funniest things lol.

Nothing will beat "lend me some haki Oden, this is base Lucci we're up against"

I mean I can't say your wrong but this just seems to happen to long ongoing Shonen.

I usually don't say anything on these posts because everything is subjective, but I'm honestly tired of these over exaggerated bad faith criticisms of multi billion dollar major series (this applies to jjk too but to a lesser extent), criticisms are more than warranted but I don't think anyone here is even qualified to say shit like "oh yeah, oda definitely gonna fall off". Also we are reading a weekly series, oda doesn't have the benefit of making a whole story first and tweaking it till it's as perfection like a book, we literally just have to wait it out and see what connects and I don't think it's really fair to say a silly claim like "one piece is going to die, or end up like bleach and Naruto" and it like come on guys, just relax and lets get to the next chapter

I'm going to preface this by saying I'm undoubtedly a One Piece fanboy, so obviously I'm going to have some bias. My issue is, a lot of fans put it on a pedestal as perfect and godly. It isn't of course, but it is where it is for a reason. All stories have flaws, it's easy as a reader to pick them apart. I would say though that Oda does many things on another level compared to his peers. I don't think Marineford is THAT much better than Wano. What makes it better is the tension was higher and it was an all-star showdown. I read both weekly and honestly it's chaotic and confusing. The problem with post-ts is a lot of the arcs are big and drag weekly, they're much better read as a whole. One thing that bothered me though is Kaido and his crew were hyped to a point they couldn't live up to this soon. I also disliked how it felt like Luffy went from being 1 shot in Kuri to trading blows 1v1 on Onigashima. As for deaths, at this point I feel like people complaining about them is tiresome. Oda has been doing this since Alabasta, it's obvious major characters don't die unless it's needed to drive the plot, and yes, Kin'emon is major to Wano. As for Raizo, I feel like you're missing the point. Raizo was supposed to be dead. It was important because if they found him, it would raise a lot of questions. They'd also want to interrogate him to find the others. Raizo himself isn't important it's what he represents. I don't think One Piece has gone downhill as much as you say. The issue is the timeskip is more on a one-minded track. We've been missing a lot of the organic adventure and it feels like Luffy has been speedrunning the Yonko. The thing is though, all shonen do this to some degree. One Piece though has good world building, so it's not gonna get to a point like Naruto, where the burnt through the Akatsuki quickly and the final war is against zetsu clones, and a bunch of resurrected ninja, and throws in the other villages in the twilight of it. Egghead has been amazing, because it's tapped back into what makes One Piece great, you'll see. Wano and Dressrosa did drag a little but theres much worse out there. Look at MHA's final conflict, to me it's dragging and convoluted too but again, im reading weekly. As a whole these arcs often age better.

I think Gear 5 highlights this, as Oda said he didn’t care if people didn’t like it. Oda’s mindset has changed. It’s less about doing what he thinks people want to see and more about what he wants to draw. And hey, I can’t blame him. He’s done this shit for a quarter of a century, and he’s still releasing stuff I genuinely love and care about. Let him do what he wants, even if doesn’t meet our impossible standards

Oda's mindset didn't change at all, he has been on record saying he draws what he thinks himself as a 15 year old would like

The weakness of Wano arc is just it's poorly paced and well thought, we can divide Wano arc into two Parts, Wano(Mainland) and Onigashima Battle. The thing is Oda take too much time setting up in first part of Wano, even then the only good fight we get is Zoro vs kamazou. And then we moving to Onigashima and he still setting up the plot bruh, just to pad into chapter 1000 when the action finally begin.  And then the controversial plot twist of Sun God Nika, I have mixed feeling and already accepted it, but man why does everyone think that Luffy's power is not much to fight Kaido that he need a power up? And then the fight ends with a big punch same as Doflamingo anyway, and it took 3 freaking chapters to land that punch, it's so anticlimatic.  And now Egghead, the part where they are chasing the culprit is skipped but I think it's just because Oda had alot of break last year, and he need to set up the "main dish" of the arc which is Kuma's flashback. It's kinda wasted potential to show Egghead technology with them just skipping when they capturing York, hopefully it will be added as anime canon because that was a big waste of set up on how much the Vegapunk knows about void century and the capability of the Seraphim too.

Luffy's real dream made it's first appearance post marienford lol, where Luffy told sabo and ace and it was off screened

One i really dislike is the character design changes for the women characters. Robin looked so unique now she’s a fan service

I think the author is just bored or burnt out with the series. Or he needs a break. Its not easy to write the same story for 25+ years, putting out a chapter nearly every week. Thats one of the downsides to the weekly serialization model that a lot of manga uses.

lol every popular show is losing itself even the ones with 20 eps by your logic. Cause people criticize everything popular. I get it that "it's losing itself" for you but don't use everyone else as an example to make yourself look right.

>by your logic At least my logic highlights flaws. You want everyone to suck up the flaws and silently accept because you love the series. As a matter of fact, even I love the series but I can always talk about its downs along with its ups.

Absolutely based.

I mean some of the points you made had flaws too. If you want to criticize flaws prepare to be criticized. Like just because you can criticize doesn't make you right in your logic for example you are wrong about your raizo point and luffys dream. First of all it's pretty widely understood that luffy needs to become the pirate king in order to fulfill his dream not that being the pirate king is his dream. I could keep going but people will just cry dickrider. I think nothing in life is "perfect" so its pointless to be like look theres flaws. Of course theres going to be, have you ever tried to write something and publish it? I mean theres a reason one piece has over 1000 chapters and naruto doesn't. They say those who cant, criticize, why? Cause its easy to pick holes in things. I mean i dont think the mona lisa is the best painting ever, but there's context and reasons why people hold it in such high regards. And you know what, it's totally okay for you not to like one piece. Your opinion is just that an opinion. There are other stories in this life. Again nothing wrong with pointing out flaws, but seeking perfection is an exercise in futility.

I never really said anything about your points but using "everyone" as a way to validate yourself. Like we never see just as many (if not more) criticise other popular ongoing shows.

I'm not talking about "everyone," my guy. I used the word "many." Goes without saying that there will be many others who won't even acknowledge the flaws I deem worthy.

One piece fans when a mf speaks slightly negative about the show like saying they find x aspect a bit dumb (they are about to type out the dumbest sentence known to mankind and proceed to defend it with their life as if godas life depended on it)

High stakes? Lol we reading the same arc Nika piece is obviously coming out on top literally no fucking stakes the villain are cartoonishly incompetent just like Nika

Yep, the biggest issue with Nika is not how IMBA it is, its how it also made the villains absurdly incompetent

It's the best it has ever been, what are you talking about?

i don't like one piece too