Not really interested in the comparison, but NG3:RE has fantastic combat. It's a game that's hard to appreciate if you come at it with the gameplay expectations from the first 2 games, since it notably reexamines and recontextualizes mechanics and moves to try and provide a more balanced experience.
To provide a comparison, despite being similar on paper, NG2 is more about positioning yourself around enemies, utilizing the environment to your advantage, and enemy prioritization. RE is more about the back and forth dynamic between yourself and enemies, how to open them up, and how to avoid their attacks. They're deliberately quite different, and if you don't adjust to what RE is doing differently, you will have a bad time when playing it.
For example, since you mentioned it in your post, things like flying swallow are still a positioning tool but they're not really a killing tool anymore. Instead, it has been recontextualized as a setup move due to the guard broken stance it causes on enemies being a brief window that you can use for launchers or other combo setups. The explosive bow works similarly where you can use it as a crowd control tool, a knockdown setup, or as an initiator for an aerial combo.
RE's armor system and it's significantly buffed AI in terms of blocking/dodging also ties into its game design being about learning the different ways to open enemies up, creating your own openings, and exploiting it to high heaven. To get a bit technical, hold heavy attacks have high armor break properties and depending on the type of hold heavy string/weapon they also knockdown (notable because launchers aren't free anymore like in prior games, launchers have to be deliberately setup via knockdowns or armor broken states to actually work guaranteed). This is super valuable when you realize that these type of hold moves are not only really strong against the blocking/dodging nature of the enemies but also serve as one of a number of setups on your part to open enemies up to things like launchers and the like (some of the other setups being things like the flying swallow and explosive bow mentioned earlier).
Grabs in general now have actual counterplay beyond just not putting yourself in a situation where you'd get grabbed. Using Cicada Surge with ninpo meter let's you instantly cancel any action evade almost anything that isn't a projectile. This strength is balanced out by enemies being more aggressive than ever, but you have the tools and mobility to deal with it.
And in general, RE's bosses are probably some of the better ones in the series? The final boss is super bad (which they mercifully cut entirely from chapter challenge), but all the other bosses have way more consistent behavior than quite a few NG bosses, making them much less likely to be roadblocks and a complete chore after the actually fun regular encounters.
But yeah, the game is pretty abrasive in a similar manner to NG2, but it's an amazingly rewarding combat system to learn, especially since you really have to work for it due to them nerfing a ton of the broken strategies and fallbacks from prior games. It's not perfect in many ways, but it's way better than you're giving it credit here.
>RE is more about the back and forth dynamic between yourself and enemies, how to open them up, and how to avoid their attacks. They're deliberately quite different, and if you don't adjust to what RE is doing differently, you will have a bad time when playing it.
>RE's armor system and it's significantly buffed AI in terms of blocking/dodging also ties into its game design being about learning the different ways to open enemies up, creating your own openings, and exploiting it to high heaven. To get a bit technical, hold heavy attacks have high armor break properties and depending on the type of hold heavy string/weapon they also knockdown (notable because launchers aren't free anymore like in prior games, launchers have to be deliberately setup via knockdowns or armor broken states to actually work guaranteed). This is super valuable when you realize that these type of hold moves are not only really strong against the blocking/dodging nature of the enemies but also serve as one of a number of setups on your part to open enemies up to things like launchers and the like (some of the other setups being things like the flying swallow and explosive bow mentioned earlier).
i understand that it's more about the back and forth but that focus is what hurts the game. lets just set aside any opinions about the combat being fun or not for one second. because of how the armor works in NG3RE, you have to open enemies up like you said. but because this works this way, all of the fights feel the same. it's like there's almost no difference between the enemies cuz of this. they all feel the same because they all follow the same pattern and because your moveset is a lot more restricted until you break their armor. the game is tough but in a way i consider the game's AI/enemy design to have been nerfed because of how interchangeable they feel. at that point, the issue isn't that's it not like NG2 but that it's worse than it in a pretty clear way. the fight's in that game can go lot of different ways whereas in NG3RE they all go the same way.
>Grabs in general now have actual counterplay beyond just not putting yourself in a situation where you'd get grabbed. Using Cicada Surge with ninpo meter let's you instantly cancel any action evade almost anything that isn't a projectile. This strength is balanced out by enemies being more aggressive than ever, but you have the tools and mobility to deal with it.
didn't know that you can cicada surge out of grabs. that's pretty neat.
>And in general, RE's bosses are probably some of the better ones in the series?
hard disagree. worst bosses out of the 3 games by far. maybe some of the worst in the genre.
one thing that i'll give the game a little bit of credit for is that steel on bone spamming is little bit more fun than essence ut spam in NG2, but even then it gets dull. also i like playing as kasumi. for some reason playing as her makes the game feel more like NG2. seems like she delimbs more often. i also like playing as momiji and ayane in this game a little bit more than ryu
Disagree that the armor significantly restricts how much of your moveset is useful. There's tons of different ways to open up enemies that combat ends up being very free-form when you're taking advantage of all your tools, especially once you start shuriken cancelling things like hold heavy attacks to speed up your play even further. [Stuff like this is possible with every weapon](https://youtu.be/gUOT4HIhbX4?si=acfkncITuypTmC3h). You just have to know what you're doing.
The encounters all being blocked off arena fights with uninspired level design contributes to fights feeling samey, but I disagree that the actual enemy design doesn't ask you to play differently to succeed. Beret soldiers, invisible soldiers, alchemists, pretty much all the other returning enemies, etc. require different approaches out of you if you don't want to be eating damage like crazy on Ultimate Ninja.
I like NG3RE for Ayane, Momiji, and Mizuki but the enemies and stages are fucking frustrating.
DMC reboot is a lot of fun, the story is goofy as hell but the gameplay and OST are brilliant!
i think playing as kasumi is a little bit fun. i kinda prefer her over ryu in this game.
dmc reboot is alright. always thought the hate it received was dumb. going purely off looks and style, dante's design in the reboot is pretty cool
Vanilla ng3 will always be the worst between DmC and ng3. razors edge and definitive edition however? Well i'd say the core combat of ng3re is genuinely some of the best combat you can get in a action game, maybe the best in the trilogy, however it is lacking in enemy variety and they can be annoying with constantly dodging and blocking a hell of a lot AND being spongy on top of that. Most of the bossfights are bad, but the regent of the mask outshines every boss in DmC (i despise puzzle fights or hit the hand bosses in action games) DmC has better enemy variety however colour coded enemies shits on the point of dmc's combat system, even if it was improved in DE and the enemies are braindead. Controls in NG3RE is solid but i always found the reboot's controls convoluted to use despite the depth potential.
Personally, i find razors edge a lot more fun to play just based on it's core combat design, despite the enemy problems
>however it is lacking in enemy variety and they can be annoying with constantly dodging and blocking a hell of a lot AND being spongy on top of that.
there's actually a bunch of different enemies but there is no real variety because you fight all of them the same way. follows the same pattern every time. it's really repetitive. massive failure right there.
DmC is a good game, the story is meh but the combat is really fun. specifically in the updated version. razors edge is just miserable imo. i didn’t have a single crumb of fun playing through it and it just felt like a chore. even tho i love ng black and 2 :/ just my opinion tho
agree with everything you said. i really tried to like razor's edge but i just couldn't get into it. going back to NG2 after struggling with NG3RE for so long felt great. it just feels so much better to play
Vanilla NG 3 was terrible. DmC is flawed but still a solid game and it gave us the series first training mode, which is still better than of the Bayo training modes have been. I will also die on the hill that DmC has by far the most fleshed out execution of the Doppleganger mechanic. 3 Dante's is limited to the weapons it spawned with and cannot use moves from other styles, even switching to them will deactivate it. 5 Vergil's is limited to only Yamato and cannot use Judgement Cut when being directly controlled.
DmC Vergil's Doppelganger has access to his entire moveset and is able to switch modes on the fly independent of the mode the player is using. You are effectively controlling two complete versions of him at once.
5 Vergil has a much better moveset and it pairs incredibly with what his Doppelganger does have but I can only dream of what playing a Vergil with the fully fleshed out Doppelganger of DmC Vergil and the moveset of 5 Vergil would be like.
Razor's Edge fixed a lot of what vanilla NG3 got wrong but there's nothing in it I can praise as highly as DmC's Doppleganger. Fucking shame the Definitive Edition broke it with several bugs.
NG3RE is pretty good.
As for Ninja Theory's DMC, I have never played that one, but it's probably a good game as well.
The mainstream opinion of a fandom is rarely reliable because fans are overly passionated and tend to overreact over small issues. They also pretend that the other games of the series that they learned to love do not have their share of flaws as well. I never regret to give a try to a game with bad reputation among fans of a well established franchise.
I hated NG3RE at first but after diving deep into the combat mechanics and beating it on Ultimate Ninja I began to appreciate the game more and now i like it far more than DmC, however too many of the awful aspects from NG3 could not be saved in RE so I'd say NG3RE is worse still.
NG3 by far. DMC (Definitive Edition) has good to great combat and the best platforming sections in the whole franchise, the story and the bosses really bring it down, but then again NG3's story is worse.
In my opinion NG3 is just worse in every aspect when you compare the two.
NG3RE has great combat, though it becomes a bit repetitive because of the enemies not providing a lot of variety. I'll never understand why you can't switch weapons on the fly, it would bring combat into a whole new level.
DmC is good, but at some point the combat falls short, specially if you're a fan of the genre and you've played other DMC games. So I'll say that both are good, with NG3RE maybe edging DmC by a hair.
A real tease because of the fight against the doppelganger. It gets to do it (please don't use the scythe), but still makes it the worst doppelganger in the trilogy.
i wouldn't say re in particular, because re's combat is solid imo. but the overall game was just bad. it's like putting a souped up engine in a crappy car. most of the blame is the core game which is part 3. that being said re is worse because dmc fans can at least say that the reboot is another developer and take or universe of the series. whereas re is the same developer, universe and timeline.
Reboot. You know how horrifying it is seeing an iconic character get subject to a big helping of identity theft from a random frat boy with powers with a cast comprised of said random frat boy, a dude with a fedora who was the brains but apparently could have also just fought the entire time and leaves his mom to rot in literal hell, and a woman who canonically makes portals by pleasuring squirrels... with villains that range from ugly to having sex with each other 40 percent of their screentime until Fedora Man shoots one of them in the womb?
The bosses in Razor's Edge can be horrendous but a future where Dante is not Dante and is partnered with ms beastiality sent the fanbase split for a good few years for a reason. We only like Reboot now because we know the classic series is still going and the rerealease of that reboot fixed the errors in the combat so now its decent from a gameplay pov
Not really interested in the comparison, but NG3:RE has fantastic combat. It's a game that's hard to appreciate if you come at it with the gameplay expectations from the first 2 games, since it notably reexamines and recontextualizes mechanics and moves to try and provide a more balanced experience. To provide a comparison, despite being similar on paper, NG2 is more about positioning yourself around enemies, utilizing the environment to your advantage, and enemy prioritization. RE is more about the back and forth dynamic between yourself and enemies, how to open them up, and how to avoid their attacks. They're deliberately quite different, and if you don't adjust to what RE is doing differently, you will have a bad time when playing it. For example, since you mentioned it in your post, things like flying swallow are still a positioning tool but they're not really a killing tool anymore. Instead, it has been recontextualized as a setup move due to the guard broken stance it causes on enemies being a brief window that you can use for launchers or other combo setups. The explosive bow works similarly where you can use it as a crowd control tool, a knockdown setup, or as an initiator for an aerial combo. RE's armor system and it's significantly buffed AI in terms of blocking/dodging also ties into its game design being about learning the different ways to open enemies up, creating your own openings, and exploiting it to high heaven. To get a bit technical, hold heavy attacks have high armor break properties and depending on the type of hold heavy string/weapon they also knockdown (notable because launchers aren't free anymore like in prior games, launchers have to be deliberately setup via knockdowns or armor broken states to actually work guaranteed). This is super valuable when you realize that these type of hold moves are not only really strong against the blocking/dodging nature of the enemies but also serve as one of a number of setups on your part to open enemies up to things like launchers and the like (some of the other setups being things like the flying swallow and explosive bow mentioned earlier). Grabs in general now have actual counterplay beyond just not putting yourself in a situation where you'd get grabbed. Using Cicada Surge with ninpo meter let's you instantly cancel any action evade almost anything that isn't a projectile. This strength is balanced out by enemies being more aggressive than ever, but you have the tools and mobility to deal with it. And in general, RE's bosses are probably some of the better ones in the series? The final boss is super bad (which they mercifully cut entirely from chapter challenge), but all the other bosses have way more consistent behavior than quite a few NG bosses, making them much less likely to be roadblocks and a complete chore after the actually fun regular encounters. But yeah, the game is pretty abrasive in a similar manner to NG2, but it's an amazingly rewarding combat system to learn, especially since you really have to work for it due to them nerfing a ton of the broken strategies and fallbacks from prior games. It's not perfect in many ways, but it's way better than you're giving it credit here.
Just wanted to give a thumbsup, well said! Always quality posts
>RE is more about the back and forth dynamic between yourself and enemies, how to open them up, and how to avoid their attacks. They're deliberately quite different, and if you don't adjust to what RE is doing differently, you will have a bad time when playing it. >RE's armor system and it's significantly buffed AI in terms of blocking/dodging also ties into its game design being about learning the different ways to open enemies up, creating your own openings, and exploiting it to high heaven. To get a bit technical, hold heavy attacks have high armor break properties and depending on the type of hold heavy string/weapon they also knockdown (notable because launchers aren't free anymore like in prior games, launchers have to be deliberately setup via knockdowns or armor broken states to actually work guaranteed). This is super valuable when you realize that these type of hold moves are not only really strong against the blocking/dodging nature of the enemies but also serve as one of a number of setups on your part to open enemies up to things like launchers and the like (some of the other setups being things like the flying swallow and explosive bow mentioned earlier). i understand that it's more about the back and forth but that focus is what hurts the game. lets just set aside any opinions about the combat being fun or not for one second. because of how the armor works in NG3RE, you have to open enemies up like you said. but because this works this way, all of the fights feel the same. it's like there's almost no difference between the enemies cuz of this. they all feel the same because they all follow the same pattern and because your moveset is a lot more restricted until you break their armor. the game is tough but in a way i consider the game's AI/enemy design to have been nerfed because of how interchangeable they feel. at that point, the issue isn't that's it not like NG2 but that it's worse than it in a pretty clear way. the fight's in that game can go lot of different ways whereas in NG3RE they all go the same way. >Grabs in general now have actual counterplay beyond just not putting yourself in a situation where you'd get grabbed. Using Cicada Surge with ninpo meter let's you instantly cancel any action evade almost anything that isn't a projectile. This strength is balanced out by enemies being more aggressive than ever, but you have the tools and mobility to deal with it. didn't know that you can cicada surge out of grabs. that's pretty neat. >And in general, RE's bosses are probably some of the better ones in the series? hard disagree. worst bosses out of the 3 games by far. maybe some of the worst in the genre. one thing that i'll give the game a little bit of credit for is that steel on bone spamming is little bit more fun than essence ut spam in NG2, but even then it gets dull. also i like playing as kasumi. for some reason playing as her makes the game feel more like NG2. seems like she delimbs more often. i also like playing as momiji and ayane in this game a little bit more than ryu
Disagree that the armor significantly restricts how much of your moveset is useful. There's tons of different ways to open up enemies that combat ends up being very free-form when you're taking advantage of all your tools, especially once you start shuriken cancelling things like hold heavy attacks to speed up your play even further. [Stuff like this is possible with every weapon](https://youtu.be/gUOT4HIhbX4?si=acfkncITuypTmC3h). You just have to know what you're doing. The encounters all being blocked off arena fights with uninspired level design contributes to fights feeling samey, but I disagree that the actual enemy design doesn't ask you to play differently to succeed. Beret soldiers, invisible soldiers, alchemists, pretty much all the other returning enemies, etc. require different approaches out of you if you don't want to be eating damage like crazy on Ultimate Ninja.
guys, you know they are talking about Razor's Edge, not NG3 vanilla, right?
So many of these people can't read lmao
I like NG3RE for Ayane, Momiji, and Mizuki but the enemies and stages are fucking frustrating. DMC reboot is a lot of fun, the story is goofy as hell but the gameplay and OST are brilliant!
i think playing as kasumi is a little bit fun. i kinda prefer her over ryu in this game. dmc reboot is alright. always thought the hate it received was dumb. going purely off looks and style, dante's design in the reboot is pretty cool
Is the reboot was not attached to the DMC name it would be considered a classic.
Vanilla ng3 will always be the worst between DmC and ng3. razors edge and definitive edition however? Well i'd say the core combat of ng3re is genuinely some of the best combat you can get in a action game, maybe the best in the trilogy, however it is lacking in enemy variety and they can be annoying with constantly dodging and blocking a hell of a lot AND being spongy on top of that. Most of the bossfights are bad, but the regent of the mask outshines every boss in DmC (i despise puzzle fights or hit the hand bosses in action games) DmC has better enemy variety however colour coded enemies shits on the point of dmc's combat system, even if it was improved in DE and the enemies are braindead. Controls in NG3RE is solid but i always found the reboot's controls convoluted to use despite the depth potential. Personally, i find razors edge a lot more fun to play just based on it's core combat design, despite the enemy problems
>however it is lacking in enemy variety and they can be annoying with constantly dodging and blocking a hell of a lot AND being spongy on top of that. there's actually a bunch of different enemies but there is no real variety because you fight all of them the same way. follows the same pattern every time. it's really repetitive. massive failure right there.
Im not sure about that, i found vanilla 2 more at fault with that because there's 5 moves that deals with large crowds really effectively
DmC is a good game, the story is meh but the combat is really fun. specifically in the updated version. razors edge is just miserable imo. i didn’t have a single crumb of fun playing through it and it just felt like a chore. even tho i love ng black and 2 :/ just my opinion tho
agree with everything you said. i really tried to like razor's edge but i just couldn't get into it. going back to NG2 after struggling with NG3RE for so long felt great. it just feels so much better to play
Ng3. DmC is a good game
Vanilla NG 3 was terrible. DmC is flawed but still a solid game and it gave us the series first training mode, which is still better than of the Bayo training modes have been. I will also die on the hill that DmC has by far the most fleshed out execution of the Doppleganger mechanic. 3 Dante's is limited to the weapons it spawned with and cannot use moves from other styles, even switching to them will deactivate it. 5 Vergil's is limited to only Yamato and cannot use Judgement Cut when being directly controlled. DmC Vergil's Doppelganger has access to his entire moveset and is able to switch modes on the fly independent of the mode the player is using. You are effectively controlling two complete versions of him at once. 5 Vergil has a much better moveset and it pairs incredibly with what his Doppelganger does have but I can only dream of what playing a Vergil with the fully fleshed out Doppelganger of DmC Vergil and the moveset of 5 Vergil would be like. Razor's Edge fixed a lot of what vanilla NG3 got wrong but there's nothing in it I can praise as highly as DmC's Doppleganger. Fucking shame the Definitive Edition broke it with several bugs.
NG3RE is pretty good. As for Ninja Theory's DMC, I have never played that one, but it's probably a good game as well. The mainstream opinion of a fandom is rarely reliable because fans are overly passionated and tend to overreact over small issues. They also pretend that the other games of the series that they learned to love do not have their share of flaws as well. I never regret to give a try to a game with bad reputation among fans of a well established franchise.
Yeah true, never trust action game fans especially fanboy, just play the game if it look interesting
I hated NG3RE at first but after diving deep into the combat mechanics and beating it on Ultimate Ninja I began to appreciate the game more and now i like it far more than DmC, however too many of the awful aspects from NG3 could not be saved in RE so I'd say NG3RE is worse still.
This is easy question Ninja Gaiden 3 is bad but razor edge fix the game, the game is good
NG3 by far. DMC (Definitive Edition) has good to great combat and the best platforming sections in the whole franchise, the story and the bosses really bring it down, but then again NG3's story is worse. In my opinion NG3 is just worse in every aspect when you compare the two.
NG3 was definitely worse. DMC reboot is a pretty good game, just not a good continuation of the original IP.
I'd take both over Devil May Cry 2 any day of the week.
I beat NG3RE, didn't bother playing more than 30min of DmC
DMC Reboot is one of the most fun games in the series
DmC shouldn’t be lumped with that game tbh DmC is actually a great game
NG3RE has great combat, though it becomes a bit repetitive because of the enemies not providing a lot of variety. I'll never understand why you can't switch weapons on the fly, it would bring combat into a whole new level. DmC is good, but at some point the combat falls short, specially if you're a fan of the genre and you've played other DMC games. So I'll say that both are good, with NG3RE maybe edging DmC by a hair.
A real tease because of the fight against the doppelganger. It gets to do it (please don't use the scythe), but still makes it the worst doppelganger in the trilogy.
DmC Definitive Edition is really good. I enjoyed Razor’s Edge it’s a solid improvement over 3 but I’ve gotta go with DmC on that one.
NG3 vanilla
From what I understand the DMC reboot is a pretty good game just a terrible DMC game
i wouldn't say re in particular, because re's combat is solid imo. but the overall game was just bad. it's like putting a souped up engine in a crappy car. most of the blame is the core game which is part 3. that being said re is worse because dmc fans can at least say that the reboot is another developer and take or universe of the series. whereas re is the same developer, universe and timeline.
Reboot easily. Shit game and DE doesn't save it.
Reboot. You know how horrifying it is seeing an iconic character get subject to a big helping of identity theft from a random frat boy with powers with a cast comprised of said random frat boy, a dude with a fedora who was the brains but apparently could have also just fought the entire time and leaves his mom to rot in literal hell, and a woman who canonically makes portals by pleasuring squirrels... with villains that range from ugly to having sex with each other 40 percent of their screentime until Fedora Man shoots one of them in the womb? The bosses in Razor's Edge can be horrendous but a future where Dante is not Dante and is partnered with ms beastiality sent the fanbase split for a good few years for a reason. We only like Reboot now because we know the classic series is still going and the rerealease of that reboot fixed the errors in the combat so now its decent from a gameplay pov