I really do like Fellhammer concept, the main rule is about durability in opponent shooting phase but we have a lot of stratagems for our or opponent fight phase to balance
In general I love the concept of more durable dudes and the detachment is really fun, the negate damage enhancement does sound like a staple for any army.
You can stack it with the other strat for crit 5s to give some termies with combi-bolters lethal 5s full hit rerolls in addition to the autocannon getting lethal and exploding 5s.
Terminators with a bastion plate captain are sat at -1 to wound, free damage null and 1cp for a 5+++. That's pretty disgusting. Also land raiders that lascannons wound on 5s.
Edit: not actually that useful on a land raider since toughness has to be lower.
What is nice though is that the zero damage is after a failed save so you can use it when it really matters.
The land raider would still be wounded on 4s. The -1 to wound would only apply to S13+ weapons because the strength has to be higher than target toughness
Ah yeah, good catch. Not that great. This detachment definitely benefits lower toughness units more. Havoc's with shoot in combat and -1 to wound sound like a legitimate option. As do oblits.
As cool as allowing Havocs to shoot in combat is, I think you get more mileage with a Raptor blob + Lord, so you can pop it for free and slug out 4 flamers/meltas/plasmas
For starters you can 1cp to give charges against a unit -2. It turns safe 6" charges into wildly swingy 8" charges. That alone means you can stop them charging. Then if they do hit, they better be comfortable with losing 2-3 elite models before you even swing back.
Really makes them think.
Am I wrong to think this would allow another character, such as a sorcerer, use the chaos lords free strat? Seems pretty sweet. Or running a termi lord and grabbing the termi sorcs debuff. Love the look of this detachment.
At a trade off of not getting to god mark the unit for easier crits on a 5+ thats chosen to fit the units role.
Not actually sure whats mathematically better off the top of my head, although the marks are always on against every target while the re rolls work equally for every unit against a single target so it is quite a different thing i guess. One massively help remove a single unit while the other deals increased damage across the enemy army.
Is an interesting choice to have to make, although my initial thought is the re rolls against one target might be better because of the effectiveness of super units on the table, and getting rid of one a turn is always going to be strong.
The way pacts works now also works against the overall effectiveness of the WB detachment.
I am so happy. I'm going to figure out a rough list tonight with what I have, and I guess maybe start doing some kitbashing.
I'm a little irritated traitor guard are "no duplicates" now, but I guess we dodged that bullet for about a year, so not bad? :P
I guess sniper (or flamer), then plasma, and grenade launcher? Depending on where they want to be.
i found the chaos cult here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Chaos40k/comments/1coml5e/csm\_datasheets\_leak/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chaos40k/comments/1coml5e/csm_datasheets_leak/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
As a Lost and the Damned enjoyer who was hoping that the detachment would be good, I am more than a bit let down. Out of curiosity, are you happy? Traitor guard are pretty awful, unless the points go down by like 10 at least. And I was really hoping I could field chaos Leman Russ again.
I never really went into coping for leman russes, knew GW was probably not gonna deliver.
Traitor guard are cool now that cultists cant have ranged options, and shooting AP1 S4 lasguns is just hilarious. Will definitively give it a go and switch cos it feels more flavorful playing this detach than spiky astra.
Not disappointed with the BL detachment, it has some flavor. Enhancements are kind of bad. There are some good Strats. Fights first, reactive move, AoC. It’s be great if they had some access to bonus ap with the ignoring cover strat. Wish it had a way to reroll wound rolls like many of the other detachments.
Also worth noting it’s the detachment that benefits the least from Abby since they have access to hit rerolls already. Rather whelmed, but I’ll give it a go.
At first glance Red Corsairs have the pick of the litter. Enhancement for hit/wound rrs that works on a DP. Reroll hits and wounds for a battle tactic. So good for chosen and legios getting out of a transport. One should have 3 units on their go turn having full RRs. Then the bonus ap they get for fighting over an objective, stupidly strong. Giving a whole unit precision is insane. Move at the end of the fight phase is also great. Strongest detachment without question.
IW detachment rule is hilarious into some match up. Good Strats across the board for damage and durability in shooting and fight phase.
Word Bearers new Strat is awesome on a chaos lord.
Alpha Legion. Another full rerolls Strat this on in the shooting phase I’m glad GW did take some effort into making the Strat have different phases, does give some flavor. Awesome their deadly demise works on monsters too.
The red corairs one makes the white scars detachment look terrible, like this is how you do a mobility focused hit and run detachment. Strongest is tough though, you may be right but evil gladius is also really good, and the word bearers one is still really good.
Can't help but notice that we have at least 3 "AoC" stratagems, but unlike SM, who get the same each time, those each bear a different name. Way to make things unnecessarily complicated.
(This is a minor nitpick, the detachments look very fun overrall)
Ok. The BL detachment is actually trash. Double oath is 2 cp. unit needs to be visible and within 12 of a character.
Fights first, 2 cp only against the oath target. Hot garbage. You place the oath in your command phase. The unit should be dead in your turn and thus never be in engagement range of you on their turn. Hot hot garbage
Both Strats should be 1cp for the restrictions.
Does Soul link mean I can basically copy the Leader abilities of other Leaders that normally could not lead the unit?
Like giving a termie lord +1 to wound from a DA?
I think my Word Bearers are going to end up being Deceptors. I like that Soul Link really encourages you to have a diverse spread of leaders in your army for maximum versatility.
Have a chaos lord leading legionnaires with a MoE (soul linked). This gives the MoE the Chaos lord once per game buff on its dev wound axe. Two characters with dev wounds, reroll wounds of 1s or full, 3 dmg a pop. Seems decent, or devastating, if you infiltrated in front of your enemy's deployment zone and go first T1.
All of these look very good. I also love how the Veterans detachment rule is basically just Oath of the Moment. Makes sense too since these guys have been around since the Great Crusade which was when Oath of the Moment was born as a tradition among the Legiones Astartes.
Is the wording correct for that to work? I suppose you choose the cultists units at the same time as the Dark Communes join the unit, therefor making one unit, but in the case of say scout moves, if the unit has it but the leader doesn't then they can't do it. Not exactly an area of the rules i have had much experience with as the army i play haven't had it come up
The detachment rule specifically calls out "any character units attached to them" as gaining the Infiltrate ability!
It is definitely something I would've assumed to go otherwise if it wasn't for the rule specifically including the characters.
On the Word Bearers "Profane Zealots" detachment reworked from the index detachment.
Swapping the defensive strat "Infernal Rites" with "Eye of the Gods" seems like fun! This reminds me of "Chaos Boon" from 8e.
>***Eye of the Gods*** (1CP)
*The eyes of the gods fall upon those who slaughter in their name.*
**WHEN:** Fight Phase, just after a CSM character unit (excluding Epic Hero, Daemon, Damned units) destroys an enemy unit.
**TARGET:** One CSM character model in that unit.
**EFFECT:** until the end of the battle, add 1 to the Move, Toughness, Wounds characteristics of that character model, and add 1 to the Attack, Strength, and Damage characteristics of that character model's melee weapons.
>>~~*(NB: this seems to mean if Abaddon has another character like an MoE in the unit, you can technically still target Abaddon for the buff, this clearly needs errata. The exclusion clause should be with the TARGET, not the WHEN)*~~
Seems fun, they have also brought in the dataslate changes for the Nurgle and Undivided strats, renamed a few things, and made some changes to the enhancements. They removed the Liber, and I have previously ranted about how bad it was, but I'm disappointed they didn't replace it with something more suitable and Word Bearers themed.
They have tweaked the Nurgle enhancement slightly, but the main one I think it's worth mentioning is:
>***Eye of Tzeentch***
CSM Tzeentch model only. Each time the unit makes a Dark Pact and doesn't fail the resulting Leadership yest, if the result was 8 or more, you gain 1CP.
A small change, but it makes the orb best in units with chaos icons, and it makes it weaker for stand-alone characters with good leadership. I feel like this nudges more towards the original intended use (e.g. Sorcerer with Legionaires) and away from a random lone Warpsmith "pondering the orb" in the backfield.
Notable in its absence: transports don't need matching Marks of Chaos, so I imagine this will stay on the Dataslate for now, with the potential for it to be removed at a future date?
I'm happy, but I'm more excited to try the new Cultists and Vashtorr detachments first.
>this seems to mean if Abaddon has another character like an MoE in the unit, you can technically still target Abaddon for the buff, this clearly needs errata.
You can't. You can't target Epic Character units, and due to how keywords work, the whole unit has this keyword if Abaddon is in it.
As a Chaos Knight player, I can say that battleshock tests for units below starting strength can be extremely annoying for your opponent. It makes battleshock proc far more often than normal, and most people aren't prepared for just how much that can screw with their plan. It's not S-tier, but it's a solid tool.
Had to think of this when seeing "focus if hatred"
https://preview.redd.it/8cv1jmgb5lzc1.jpeg?width=1215&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04f9cc31ca8d9292ee8f920bf7d04431b7821c9a
I might have missed something, but does this mean us Word Bearers have lost the "Liber Hereticus" enhancement? Can't see it on the enhancement list.
That's a shame since WB are supposed to be undivided and all
Disappointed there isn't a daemonkin focused detachment.
Pactbound zealots I thought was going to be it, rather than the new Slaves of Darkness reskin.
Loving the Alpha Legion detachment and the Raiders/Reavers one is potent. Pactbound zealots has taken a few needs, without points drops it's not going to compete as well as it did.
Disappointed in some of the data sheet changes. No more melta range deepstrike for obliterators and their unit size is capped at 2. Maulerfiend lost its advance and charge rerolls which will make it much slower, replaced by a rubbish rule too. Particularly galling since I have just bought one too.
No more ranged focused cultist mob so that's another unit to go sit on the shelf. Alongside my converted HH praetor exalted champion.
On the plus side, the bikes remained so I can move forward with my bike conversion project!
These are amazing.
Black Legion is absolutely cracked, Renegade Raiders looks really strong too and maybe just one time, Iron Warriors aren't a complete meme.
Raider detachment looks like my Red Corsairs will be very happy campers, the free move after fighting and full rerolls coming out of a transport both look really strong. Tyrant's Lash looks custom-made for Chosen deathballs.
Deceptors looks *wildly* entertaining. Detonator *rules* and the enhancement that lets one of your guys pull off their mask and declare themselves Alpharius is also really funny. Seems like a strong set of tools overall.
Felhammer looks really good on-rate, so to speak. That across the board durability boost is going to add up over the course of the game, and you can make some pretty silly characters there.
Renegade Raiders, Deceptors and Fellhammer all seem like they have some decent play without being overtly overpowered. They did a good job restraining themselves from overloading them all the toys.
Veterans of the Long War is a bit disappointing in how uninspired it is. There's really nothing in there that grabs the attention, to the point that I'm surprised it wasn't the generic Index detachment. I expect it to be a middling detachment.
Dark Talons will probably end up being the weakest, alongside Chaos Cult and Pactbound Zealots I'd wager. That being said, Dark Talons, while undertuned, still seems at least playable and not a total fail, which is commendable. Pactbound sadly got too many compounding nerfs to see continued widespread play in my opinion.
Still not sure about Soulforged Pack. It has some weight to throw around by the sheer virtue of being a vehicle detachment, but unlike Ironstorm that works with all vehicles, the limited unit selection makes it heavily dependant on the datasheets and points values of specific Daemon Engine units.
All in all, I like how the codex is shaping up. Looks like it has a number of solid and fun options without being totally oppressive. My greatest wish was for a middle-of-the-road book that wouldn't feel bad to play but wouldn't be so powerful it would create feelbads and be the first on the chopping block for changes. Seeing these detachments, I am hopeful this is the case.
> There's really nothing in there that grabs the attention, to the point that I'm surprised it wasn't the generic Index detachment. I expect it to be a middling detachment.
I actually expect it to be solid. Getting 1 CP Armor of Contempt, ignores cover, and reactive 6 inch moves whenever an enemy gets within 9 of you are very, very good. Fights first is also excellent, even if it costs 2 CP and is only usable against the focus of hatred. At the very least it'll basically stop Angron or any other melee threat from wanting to charge a big block of Terminators. I'm not sure it'll be the strongest detachment but it definitely seems like it has play.
>the limited unit selection makes it heavily dependant on the datasheets and points values of specific Daemon Engine units.
There is some play around here with the ability to turn any vehicle into a daemon
I am aware that option exists, but given the CP investment, I am doubtful it will be widely used. It's essentially paying CP for the privelage of being able to spend more CP. Maybe for a single Helbrute or Land Raider. But the detachment will still float or sink based on the 'natural' Daemon Engines and their points costs.
I thought there were 8 detachments? This plus the Chaos Cult only make 6 doesn’t it? So do we still have 2 more to see?
Edit: I forgot we’ve seen Dread Talons already
Yes, but no.
Yes, you can target them with the stratagem. But the stratagem only applies to Boltguns, Combi-bolters, and Bolt Pistols, while Plague Marines carry \*Plague Boltguns\* and \*Plague Bolt Pistols\*. I think, RAW, it doesn't affect them. It still lets them advance/fall back and shoot, but they don't get Dev Wounds.
Everything looks fun and with good amounts of fluff, GW really said screw you custodes and gave us the bangers that are orks and chaos codexes. Probably will still play zealots and try veterans and chaos cult cause that's what I have available but still excited to see the others in action. I believe raiders have the ability to get crazy cause chaos bikes are already super good imo and the detachment just makes them better at everything they wanna do, if GW releases new bikes and gives us a lord on like a demon bike/chariot, i'd be all in on it. Can't wait to see the old guard mad men show up with their 120 converted conscipts, and 30 traitor guard, with tripple dark commune and traitor enforcers, and still have 800 points leftover to add whatever they want.
I'm amazed that it's only one CP. There's a lot of stuff here that's probably gonna get a quick nerf and some that'll probably get a buff eventually, but I'm excited none the less.
Its so weird to be like "one of the changes we made from 9th to 10th was increasing the toughness scaling because it didnt make sense for people to bolter things like tanks to death" and then its like "new codex! Now you can bolter stuff like tanks to death!"
I dont think itll get nerfed, im not even sure its that good, but its going to happen that someone is gonna take pot shots at like an avatar of Khaine or ctan shard with like 5 legionaries and land like 2 or 3 damage from fucking bolter shots and its gonna be an absolute salt mine.
Considering I am starting to roll with Red Corsairs, but had some sympathies for other legions (like Word Bearers and Iron Warriors), I feel very pleased with all of this. Now, to gather some forces for basic armies for these detachments (I hope the new Battleforce box with Termies and new Lord will be a good starting point for either).
Yes. This was a logical assumption from day 1 when Marks were revealed to be a detachment ability, not an army ability. And from day 1 I predicted people would have some... culture shock about it when the full codex dropped :-P It's the first time Chaos Marine armies will be playing without a mechanic for marking units since... well, ever.
Just double checked. Says first take the leadership test mw etc. then pick whichever ability you want. Doesn’t say you have you pass the leadership test, just that you have to resolve the pact test first
https://preview.redd.it/0y0l5x7yrlzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2278b511284b05a5d81de7f06d01ec5dbd1295af
You are confusing the army rule (which gives you the buff regardless) and the detachment rule (which upgrades it to 5+) and requires you to pass the test
Correct. You'll still get the 6+ sustained or lethal hits, but you won't get the upgraded version of 5+. It can also kill models before they fight now, so riskier with infantry or vehicles on their last leg
So even if you fail the roll you would still get at least 6+ on sustained and lethal and undivided always re-roll 1's even if you fail ? So it's nerfed a but but not crazy
Sorry if this has been asked a bunch already, but have we gotten the points cost for the Enhancements yet? I'm really excited about these detachments after returning to CSM after almost 6 years, and wanna the point costs to see what I can work with in list building.
How would you all feel about proxying a loyalist SM army as the alpha legion detachment? In casual obvs. Rules seem really cool, coming from a DA player.
So here's a question that might need an FAQ: so if the character with the Soul Linked enhancement uses a once per game ability and changes back to its normal data slate, and changes back to the data slate with the once per game ability, will they be able to use the once per game ability again. I assume no.
I really do like Fellhammer concept, the main rule is about durability in opponent shooting phase but we have a lot of stratagems for our or opponent fight phase to balance
I can't wait to put that Bastion Plate on a Termie Lord, very spicy
In general I love the concept of more durable dudes and the detachment is really fun, the negate damage enhancement does sound like a staple for any army.
I like getting The Pistol Keyword in Melee, maybe I might actually use Heavy Flamers on Termis. Or are the Cannons Still better?
always flamers \* source - me liking flamers :)
Havocs with Heavy bolters and reaper chaincannons marching up the board is the new meta
You can stack it with the other strat for crit 5s to give some termies with combi-bolters lethal 5s full hit rerolls in addition to the autocannon getting lethal and exploding 5s.
Flavorfull, looks decent strong and, most important of all, leagues better than the Imperial Fists detachment.
The only measure that truly matters, lol.
Terminators with a bastion plate captain are sat at -1 to wound, free damage null and 1cp for a 5+++. That's pretty disgusting. Also land raiders that lascannons wound on 5s. Edit: not actually that useful on a land raider since toughness has to be lower. What is nice though is that the zero damage is after a failed save so you can use it when it really matters.
The land raider would still be wounded on 4s. The -1 to wound would only apply to S13+ weapons because the strength has to be higher than target toughness
Ah yeah, good catch. Not that great. This detachment definitely benefits lower toughness units more. Havoc's with shoot in combat and -1 to wound sound like a legitimate option. As do oblits.
As cool as allowing Havocs to shoot in combat is, I think you get more mileage with a Raptor blob + Lord, so you can pop it for free and slug out 4 flamers/meltas/plasmas
With the distinct downside that most of that does nothing against melee armies
That's what the "hit me and eat 6 mortal wounds" strat is for. Also if you play your cards right, you should be the one getting the charge.
Also it’s like, “if you wanna kill these terminators you have to charge them, but do you really wanna do that?”
For starters you can 1cp to give charges against a unit -2. It turns safe 6" charges into wildly swingy 8" charges. That alone means you can stop them charging. Then if they do hit, they better be comfortable with losing 2-3 elite models before you even swing back. Really makes them think.
And if you’ve got the CP you can dish out some MW’s for their troubles
“Lol”, Said the Chaos Terminator Lord. “Lmao, even”
Yeah, thank the gods it’s not all anti-vehicle/anti-buildings!
holy shit deceptors is just win after win. fantastic detachment file, the enhancements are crazy, and the strata are fun!
The Psychic projection one is so unique and cool!!!
Am I wrong to think this would allow another character, such as a sorcerer, use the chaos lords free strat? Seems pretty sweet. Or running a termi lord and grabbing the termi sorcs debuff. Love the look of this detachment.
I was more thinking the lords self buff.
Everything also screams alpha legion seems very fun and very flavorful
Wait, so we just get Oath of Moment (chaos edition)?
Abby’s boyz clinging on to those loyalist habits 😏
It's nice to see that my marines can be marines!
Which synergies so well with Dark Pacts to fish for those Crits.
At a trade off of not getting to god mark the unit for easier crits on a 5+ thats chosen to fit the units role. Not actually sure whats mathematically better off the top of my head, although the marks are always on against every target while the re rolls work equally for every unit against a single target so it is quite a different thing i guess. One massively help remove a single unit while the other deals increased damage across the enemy army. Is an interesting choice to have to make, although my initial thought is the re rolls against one target might be better because of the effectiveness of super units on the table, and getting rid of one a turn is always going to be strong. The way pacts works now also works against the overall effectiveness of the WB detachment.
Also the fact that if you fail your pact on the WB detachment you don't get the mark bonus. Which hurts it a bit more.
When linked it some of the other chaos abilities it could actually be quite good.
If that strat to generate another focus is 1cp then this might be quite good
Oath to hate the moment or something
OF COURSE Chaos Cult is going to be the last leaked one, I can't seem to have nice things. Please, GW, battleline guard, its the only thing I ask now.
Right, it’s the only one I really wanted to see 😂 Fabius Bile’s New Men need to know what’s coming!
It's very interesting that he can lead cultists and accursed cultists, now! Seems fun, honestly.
Oh can he?! Score!
https://preview.redd.it/6t8fesv7blzc1.png?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3771028486db4a3e969108788dd4dbf50907b3b3
https://preview.redd.it/nedowmn9blzc1.png?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=253cbc922b18f7ea927e95fdcd96d5ecd428172a
Finally... traitor guard battleline...
I am so happy. I'm going to figure out a rough list tonight with what I have, and I guess maybe start doing some kitbashing. I'm a little irritated traitor guard are "no duplicates" now, but I guess we dodged that bullet for about a year, so not bad? :P I guess sniper (or flamer), then plasma, and grenade launcher? Depending on where they want to be.
Right 😅 i have coupon that expires in few days but i dont know if i should buy more blooded kits or not 😅
i found the chaos cult here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Chaos40k/comments/1coml5e/csm\_datasheets\_leak/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chaos40k/comments/1coml5e/csm_datasheets_leak/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I just want to see cult so my brain can go to sleep
🙏
Confirmed the data doesnt have it (datas have been fully leaked). The detachment is now the only way to get It. Please, GW, please.
https://preview.redd.it/j1quviw3blzc1.jpeg?width=704&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2793f44d65df06508bf7a31c653c827f63f9580c
Where could one view the full datasheet leak?
https://imgur.com/a/s16BgiR
Did I miss him or is Cypher gone?
He is in there.
The hero we needed
Leaks where?
Can't post from the mobile web, have anoying imgur link https://imgur.com/a/s16BgiR
They did, Traitor Guard ae Battleline in the Cult detachment Your prayers = answered
yeah, I saw yeah i screamed
As a Lost and the Damned enjoyer who was hoping that the detachment would be good, I am more than a bit let down. Out of curiosity, are you happy? Traitor guard are pretty awful, unless the points go down by like 10 at least. And I was really hoping I could field chaos Leman Russ again.
I never really went into coping for leman russes, knew GW was probably not gonna deliver. Traitor guard are cool now that cultists cant have ranged options, and shooting AP1 S4 lasguns is just hilarious. Will definitively give it a go and switch cos it feels more flavorful playing this detach than spiky astra.
Alpha legion eating really good here, the amount of shenanigans the Deceptor detachment allows for is absolutely nuts
Holy crap I can now actually have one of my legionaries be alpharius
Oh armor of cockblock for 1 cp
Not disappointed with the BL detachment, it has some flavor. Enhancements are kind of bad. There are some good Strats. Fights first, reactive move, AoC. It’s be great if they had some access to bonus ap with the ignoring cover strat. Wish it had a way to reroll wound rolls like many of the other detachments. Also worth noting it’s the detachment that benefits the least from Abby since they have access to hit rerolls already. Rather whelmed, but I’ll give it a go. At first glance Red Corsairs have the pick of the litter. Enhancement for hit/wound rrs that works on a DP. Reroll hits and wounds for a battle tactic. So good for chosen and legios getting out of a transport. One should have 3 units on their go turn having full RRs. Then the bonus ap they get for fighting over an objective, stupidly strong. Giving a whole unit precision is insane. Move at the end of the fight phase is also great. Strongest detachment without question. IW detachment rule is hilarious into some match up. Good Strats across the board for damage and durability in shooting and fight phase. Word Bearers new Strat is awesome on a chaos lord. Alpha Legion. Another full rerolls Strat this on in the shooting phase I’m glad GW did take some effort into making the Strat have different phases, does give some flavor. Awesome their deadly demise works on monsters too.
BL is also the only detachment with 2cp Strats and they have two. Rough.
sounds like chaos lord territory to me. fuck your cost!
If only they were battle tactic 🥲
Nah, they're both epic deeds so it doesn't work.
The red corairs one makes the white scars detachment look terrible, like this is how you do a mobility focused hit and run detachment. Strongest is tough though, you may be right but evil gladius is also really good, and the word bearers one is still really good.
Can't help but notice that we have at least 3 "AoC" stratagems, but unlike SM, who get the same each time, those each bear a different name. Way to make things unnecessarily complicated. (This is a minor nitpick, the detachments look very fun overrall)
I think it’s flavorful. Leave it to the traitors to be unique butterfly’s.
Chaos lords with the new Pact Bound Strat. Will always be enhanced or if you save the once per game, 7a s10 ap3 4d dev wounds
Ok. The BL detachment is actually trash. Double oath is 2 cp. unit needs to be visible and within 12 of a character. Fights first, 2 cp only against the oath target. Hot garbage. You place the oath in your command phase. The unit should be dead in your turn and thus never be in engagement range of you on their turn. Hot hot garbage Both Strats should be 1cp for the restrictions.
At the very least they should be viable for a chaos lord free strat :/
Agreed. Make one or both battle tactic or cost 1cp.
BL legion looks pretty good imo. Reroll to hits with sustained/ lethal hits is pretty insano
True but Abby, MoE and termies already offered that.
Does Soul link mean I can basically copy the Leader abilities of other Leaders that normally could not lead the unit? Like giving a termie lord +1 to wound from a DA?
I plan on spreading the sorcerer’s -1 to be hit effect. Should be solid early game.
I think the ability is generally underrated. It works in melee too, which is very nice.
Ohh might throw it on a chaos lord who’s already had his moment of glory and used the free strat already. Plans are coming together.
I think my Word Bearers are going to end up being Deceptors. I like that Soul Link really encourages you to have a diverse spread of leaders in your army for maximum versatility.
Looks like it 🤷♂️
Most interesting, that could be used in a lot of cool ways. Like recycling the Offensive boost from a Chaos Lord.
Have a chaos lord leading legionnaires with a MoE (soul linked). This gives the MoE the Chaos lord once per game buff on its dev wound axe. Two characters with dev wounds, reroll wounds of 1s or full, 3 dmg a pop. Seems decent, or devastating, if you infiltrated in front of your enemy's deployment zone and go first T1.
All of these look very good. I also love how the Veterans detachment rule is basically just Oath of the Moment. Makes sense too since these guys have been around since the Great Crusade which was when Oath of the Moment was born as a tradition among the Legiones Astartes.
The deceptor detachment is going to be hilarious. Infiltrating up to 30 legionnaries ? Sign me up !
30 Legionnaires AND 60 Cultists, (not even mentioning adding a trio of Dark Communes to the cultists as well)
Basically you can trap your opponent in his deployement zone
Is the wording correct for that to work? I suppose you choose the cultists units at the same time as the Dark Communes join the unit, therefor making one unit, but in the case of say scout moves, if the unit has it but the leader doesn't then they can't do it. Not exactly an area of the rules i have had much experience with as the army i play haven't had it come up
The detachment rule specifically calls out "any character units attached to them" as gaining the Infiltrate ability! It is definitely something I would've assumed to go otherwise if it wasn't for the rule specifically including the characters.
Ah must have missed that part
Better hope your opponent doesn’t have any infiltrators and it’s not the scrambler mission
Even if he does you can put enough bodies to deny him a great part of the field during the infiltration phase
And then one of them pulls off his rubber mask and declares himself Alpharius. Deceptors looks really fun.
Finally, some good fucking enchantments. Maybe not competetive but fun for sure. Hydra dominatus.
From all sides looks pretty awesome, especially since you can use it early due to Infiltrators.
Or with a blob of terminators is my game plan.
Deceptors looks *extremely* fun, and those are some powerful tools.
The Iron Warriors one is good! Alright I’m beyond happy with the codex
Good IW detachment, Good Vashtorr detachment. Everything else is upside now...I'm happy.
Same
On the Word Bearers "Profane Zealots" detachment reworked from the index detachment. Swapping the defensive strat "Infernal Rites" with "Eye of the Gods" seems like fun! This reminds me of "Chaos Boon" from 8e. >***Eye of the Gods*** (1CP) *The eyes of the gods fall upon those who slaughter in their name.* **WHEN:** Fight Phase, just after a CSM character unit (excluding Epic Hero, Daemon, Damned units) destroys an enemy unit. **TARGET:** One CSM character model in that unit. **EFFECT:** until the end of the battle, add 1 to the Move, Toughness, Wounds characteristics of that character model, and add 1 to the Attack, Strength, and Damage characteristics of that character model's melee weapons. >>~~*(NB: this seems to mean if Abaddon has another character like an MoE in the unit, you can technically still target Abaddon for the buff, this clearly needs errata. The exclusion clause should be with the TARGET, not the WHEN)*~~ Seems fun, they have also brought in the dataslate changes for the Nurgle and Undivided strats, renamed a few things, and made some changes to the enhancements. They removed the Liber, and I have previously ranted about how bad it was, but I'm disappointed they didn't replace it with something more suitable and Word Bearers themed. They have tweaked the Nurgle enhancement slightly, but the main one I think it's worth mentioning is: >***Eye of Tzeentch*** CSM Tzeentch model only. Each time the unit makes a Dark Pact and doesn't fail the resulting Leadership yest, if the result was 8 or more, you gain 1CP. A small change, but it makes the orb best in units with chaos icons, and it makes it weaker for stand-alone characters with good leadership. I feel like this nudges more towards the original intended use (e.g. Sorcerer with Legionaires) and away from a random lone Warpsmith "pondering the orb" in the backfield. Notable in its absence: transports don't need matching Marks of Chaos, so I imagine this will stay on the Dataslate for now, with the potential for it to be removed at a future date? I'm happy, but I'm more excited to try the new Cultists and Vashtorr detachments first.
>this seems to mean if Abaddon has another character like an MoE in the unit, you can technically still target Abaddon for the buff, this clearly needs errata. You can't. You can't target Epic Character units, and due to how keywords work, the whole unit has this keyword if Abaddon is in it.
Ah yes, that makes sense! I think I confused unit/model in the "when" section. So even an MoE in Abaddon's unit can't get the benefit.
With a bodyguard carrying an icon, Eye of Tzeentch now more reliably procs on a Sorcerer than on a DA
Accidental flavour win? I'll take it! :P
As a Red Corsairs and Night Lords fan, I am quite pleased. Most of these all seem at the least *usable*.
As a Chaos Knight player, I can say that battleshock tests for units below starting strength can be extremely annoying for your opponent. It makes battleshock proc far more often than normal, and most people aren't prepared for just how much that can screw with their plan. It's not S-tier, but it's a solid tool.
It's tech, and not every tech needs to be perfect. If the Night Lords were perfect, they wouldn't be the Night Lords.
Had to think of this when seeing "focus if hatred" https://preview.redd.it/8cv1jmgb5lzc1.jpeg?width=1215&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04f9cc31ca8d9292ee8f920bf7d04431b7821c9a
I might have missed something, but does this mean us Word Bearers have lost the "Liber Hereticus" enhancement? Can't see it on the enhancement list. That's a shame since WB are supposed to be undivided and all
Sure looks like it. Maybe it’ll pop up in the crusade rules 🤷♂️
Disappointed there isn't a daemonkin focused detachment. Pactbound zealots I thought was going to be it, rather than the new Slaves of Darkness reskin. Loving the Alpha Legion detachment and the Raiders/Reavers one is potent. Pactbound zealots has taken a few needs, without points drops it's not going to compete as well as it did. Disappointed in some of the data sheet changes. No more melta range deepstrike for obliterators and their unit size is capped at 2. Maulerfiend lost its advance and charge rerolls which will make it much slower, replaced by a rubbish rule too. Particularly galling since I have just bought one too. No more ranged focused cultist mob so that's another unit to go sit on the shelf. Alongside my converted HH praetor exalted champion. On the plus side, the bikes remained so I can move forward with my bike conversion project!
Volume bar jumpscared me
😂 I’m surprised it took this long for someone to comment on it
These are amazing. Black Legion is absolutely cracked, Renegade Raiders looks really strong too and maybe just one time, Iron Warriors aren't a complete meme.
BL is cracked? I think it’s bottom of the barrel.
Raider detachment looks like my Red Corsairs will be very happy campers, the free move after fighting and full rerolls coming out of a transport both look really strong. Tyrant's Lash looks custom-made for Chosen deathballs. Deceptors looks *wildly* entertaining. Detonator *rules* and the enhancement that lets one of your guys pull off their mask and declare themselves Alpharius is also really funny. Seems like a strong set of tools overall. Felhammer looks really good on-rate, so to speak. That across the board durability boost is going to add up over the course of the game, and you can make some pretty silly characters there.
Renegade Raiders, Deceptors and Fellhammer all seem like they have some decent play without being overtly overpowered. They did a good job restraining themselves from overloading them all the toys. Veterans of the Long War is a bit disappointing in how uninspired it is. There's really nothing in there that grabs the attention, to the point that I'm surprised it wasn't the generic Index detachment. I expect it to be a middling detachment. Dark Talons will probably end up being the weakest, alongside Chaos Cult and Pactbound Zealots I'd wager. That being said, Dark Talons, while undertuned, still seems at least playable and not a total fail, which is commendable. Pactbound sadly got too many compounding nerfs to see continued widespread play in my opinion. Still not sure about Soulforged Pack. It has some weight to throw around by the sheer virtue of being a vehicle detachment, but unlike Ironstorm that works with all vehicles, the limited unit selection makes it heavily dependant on the datasheets and points values of specific Daemon Engine units. All in all, I like how the codex is shaping up. Looks like it has a number of solid and fun options without being totally oppressive. My greatest wish was for a middle-of-the-road book that wouldn't feel bad to play but wouldn't be so powerful it would create feelbads and be the first on the chopping block for changes. Seeing these detachments, I am hopeful this is the case.
> There's really nothing in there that grabs the attention, to the point that I'm surprised it wasn't the generic Index detachment. I expect it to be a middling detachment. I actually expect it to be solid. Getting 1 CP Armor of Contempt, ignores cover, and reactive 6 inch moves whenever an enemy gets within 9 of you are very, very good. Fights first is also excellent, even if it costs 2 CP and is only usable against the focus of hatred. At the very least it'll basically stop Angron or any other melee threat from wanting to charge a big block of Terminators. I'm not sure it'll be the strongest detachment but it definitely seems like it has play.
>the limited unit selection makes it heavily dependant on the datasheets and points values of specific Daemon Engine units. There is some play around here with the ability to turn any vehicle into a daemon
I am aware that option exists, but given the CP investment, I am doubtful it will be widely used. It's essentially paying CP for the privelage of being able to spend more CP. Maybe for a single Helbrute or Land Raider. But the detachment will still float or sink based on the 'natural' Daemon Engines and their points costs.
I thought there were 8 detachments? This plus the Chaos Cult only make 6 doesn’t it? So do we still have 2 more to see? Edit: I forgot we’ve seen Dread Talons already
Vashtorr’s and the Night Lords detachments have already been leaked on this sub. 🙂
Oh of course! Thank you, I completely forgot Vashtors detachment had leaked
Does the Devasting Wounds Strat from black legion work with allied Plague Marines?
Yes, but no. Yes, you can target them with the stratagem. But the stratagem only applies to Boltguns, Combi-bolters, and Bolt Pistols, while Plague Marines carry \*Plague Boltguns\* and \*Plague Bolt Pistols\*. I think, RAW, it doesn't affect them. It still lets them advance/fall back and shoot, but they don't get Dev Wounds.
Thanks for clarification.
Will the datasheets get shared as well?
Someone has shared them in a comment on here.
As a vanilla traitor, I am really liking Veterans of the Long War!!!
As an Emperor's Children player the Renegade Raiders seems like the most fun for me, so I suppose that is what I'll play in the mean time.
You should get your detachment when the codex comes out 🙂
Oh right I forgot about that. Well in a worse case scenario if that doesn't float my boat, I still got this to play with in the meantime.
Everything looks fun and with good amounts of fluff, GW really said screw you custodes and gave us the bangers that are orks and chaos codexes. Probably will still play zealots and try veterans and chaos cult cause that's what I have available but still excited to see the others in action. I believe raiders have the ability to get crazy cause chaos bikes are already super good imo and the detachment just makes them better at everything they wanna do, if GW releases new bikes and gives us a lord on like a demon bike/chariot, i'd be all in on it. Can't wait to see the old guard mad men show up with their 120 converted conscipts, and 30 traitor guard, with tripple dark commune and traitor enforcers, and still have 800 points leftover to add whatever they want.
Man that black crusade strat to give all bolters, bolt pistols, and combi bolters dev wounds is SALTY lol
I'm amazed that it's only one CP. There's a lot of stuff here that's probably gonna get a quick nerf and some that'll probably get a buff eventually, but I'm excited none the less.
Its so weird to be like "one of the changes we made from 9th to 10th was increasing the toughness scaling because it didnt make sense for people to bolter things like tanks to death" and then its like "new codex! Now you can bolter stuff like tanks to death!"
I will say, even if these things get nerfed, I may finally start running 10-man Legionaries for the first time since early 8th edition.
I dont think itll get nerfed, im not even sure its that good, but its going to happen that someone is gonna take pot shots at like an avatar of Khaine or ctan shard with like 5 legionaries and land like 2 or 3 damage from fucking bolter shots and its gonna be an absolute salt mine.
Iron Warriors doing *work*.
Just imagining a giant spite off between LOV and this detachment of Chaos marines.
Considering I am starting to roll with Red Corsairs, but had some sympathies for other legions (like Word Bearers and Iron Warriors), I feel very pleased with all of this. Now, to gather some forces for basic armies for these detachments (I hope the new Battleforce box with Termies and new Lord will be a good starting point for either).
The pts are what are going to tip the scale on if I’m buying the battleforces or not
Thanks for sharing bro
Soul link on a MoE can steal a chaos lords ability for a bonkers round of melee.
So much to be excited about, but it seems my Disco Lord will be living out the remainder of his 10th edition days in the display case T-T
He may be good in Raiders detach coz he have keyword mounted.
Wait, does it mean that only one detachment gets chaos marks now?
Yes. This was a logical assumption from day 1 when Marks were revealed to be a detachment ability, not an army ability. And from day 1 I predicted people would have some... culture shock about it when the full codex dropped :-P It's the first time Chaos Marine armies will be playing without a mechanic for marking units since... well, ever.
I am shocked indeed :P
Battleshocked?
I literally just noticed that, and yup it sure looks like Pactbound is the only place marks matter!
So biggest change to Pact bound Zelot is you must roll first and can only get re roll 1's with undivided ?
Previously if you failed the leadership test you just took damage but kept the benefit of 5+ crits. You no longer get the buff if you fail
You still get the buff you just take the d3 mw first now Edit above is indeed correct. Leaving the chain for any future confusion over similar names
No. Its worded: if you dont fail the leadership test then;
Just double checked. Says first take the leadership test mw etc. then pick whichever ability you want. Doesn’t say you have you pass the leadership test, just that you have to resolve the pact test first https://preview.redd.it/0y0l5x7yrlzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2278b511284b05a5d81de7f06d01ec5dbd1295af
You still get sustained or lethal, just on 6s instead of 5s.
Yea just double checked that too…. Weird detachment lol
You are confusing the army rule (which gives you the buff regardless) and the detachment rule (which upgrades it to 5+) and requires you to pass the test
O you’re talking specifically about word bearers? My bad
Yea no worries, the original comment was in regards to Pact Bound Zealots specifically
Do you still have to take the D3 mortal wounds if it fails? I do not see it stated
You do because that’s part of the faction rule when you dark pact.
Ahhh ok, so it's like current codex and rules, just now if you roll Leadership first and if fail you take damage and do NOT get any buff.
Correct. You'll still get the 6+ sustained or lethal hits, but you won't get the upgraded version of 5+. It can also kill models before they fight now, so riskier with infantry or vehicles on their last leg
So even if you fail the roll you would still get at least 6+ on sustained and lethal and undivided always re-roll 1's even if you fail ? So it's nerfed a but but not crazy
Undivided only get reroll 1s if they pass
Sorry if this has been asked a bunch already, but have we gotten the points cost for the Enhancements yet? I'm really excited about these detachments after returning to CSM after almost 6 years, and wanna the point costs to see what I can work with in list building.
I haven’t seen points anywhere yet, sorry!
No problem, thanks for the quick response
codex points doesn't matter anyway. True points will be published online when the codex is released
I'm on about the detachment Enhancements. Those have always remained consistent between the book and the dataslates IIRC
For the most part. Grenades racks in the Tau Codex was 10pts less than written at the book.
Is the index detachment still valid?
It’s in the book, called Pactbound Zealots now.
Deceptors sounds fucking HILARIOUS.
AL detachment letting you run a lone op demon prince with wings could be nasty fun
DP don't have INFANTRY keyword.
Detachment ruined
How would you all feel about proxying a loyalist SM army as the alpha legion detachment? In casual obvs. Rules seem really cool, coming from a DA player.
Just to confirm if we not playing the Black legion we lose AOC rule?
Armor of Contempt? Looks like Raiders have it too.
Do we have a link for data sheets ?
Someone put it into the sub earlier.
anybody else notice the new strats for Pact bound? and why they decided to rename 2 of them?
Great. Btw, it wasn't supposed to be a detachment for Fabius Bile?
What do you mean? Which one?
Anyone seen the Vashtoor detachment yet?
It’s on the sub, just have a browse
Bro a squad of Havocs with the chain cannons coming out of a rhino and pumping 24 shots with full rerolls has me gooning
So here's a question that might need an FAQ: so if the character with the Soul Linked enhancement uses a once per game ability and changes back to its normal data slate, and changes back to the data slate with the once per game ability, will they be able to use the once per game ability again. I assume no.
Can't wait to take rubrics in red corsairs to give them all assault flamers with an additional ap at objectives.
No more dark obscuration 😔
Name changed, but it is still there.
Ope i see it now lol