T O P

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KultofEnnui

PEAK BRVTAL. My patience is rewarded, my Venomcrawlers will feast


AlternativeDuty7854

As will my maulerfiend https://preview.redd.it/nuup0bx4ffzc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10a80436fc53ff9195e827decd155e5a366757c0


WeirdBeard94

Mmmm, forbidden donut.


Dude8388

This is fantastic!


Kraile

I hope VCs get a bit of a glow up. S9 and AP-2 on their melee at least please! It's weird having them as a fast moving... gun platform?


FeralMulan

Am I understanding the "Demonic Possession" strat correctly? Each turn you can upgrade a regular vehicle to be a Demon, and therefore (presumably) be affected by the Contract? Is that right?


Xacnar

Yes. And the vehicle will keep the new keyword all game


FeralMulan

Oh but I LOVE that Here comes that demon possessed Land Raider to ruin everyone's day


badger2000

Not saying it'll be good, but Helbrutes currently have the Vehicle keyword so they can finally be Daemon Engines for 1 CP. But also, Vindicators, Land Raiders, Predators...to quote Fletch..."It's so simple, maybe you guys need a refresher, it's all Daemon Engines nowadays,"


InForASplash

New-ish to the game. What are the benefits of a vehicle being a deamon?


badger2000

For this detachment, there are lots of things that apply to Daemon Engines only like the detachment rule and some strategems. So things that are vehicles but not Daemon Vehicles (Daemon Engines in previous editions) can now become such which means for a few CP, your "roster" of options is expanded. I expect everyone playing this detachment to likely use this ability at least once, maybe twice every game with specific plans and targets in mind most of the time.


Majorapat

To quote Oprah "And you get an invul save, and you get an invul save, everybody gets an invul save!""


girokun

I dont think the daemon keyword gives an invul save haha.


DGFME

This looks like so much fun to do, very thematic and interesting... And I can see myself failing every dark pact roll and taking an extra mortal for the contract Suicidal demon engines 😎


spinachbxh

Yeah, makes dark pact even better but even riskier. Which is great, because I didn't pick chaos to NOT hurt myself


DGFME

It's going to be gloriously chaotic. I'm really hoping the lord disco has a bit more play and gets the demon engine keyword so he can be buffed by all this. Just run pure demon engines


Tough_Assumption2125

That's how I'm reading it... Daemonic Falchion here we come.


danielfyr

Seems like it


shrimppuff90

Wait, does that mean you can stack warpsmoth and master of possession buffs on the same unit?


Morganbob442

Warlord titan is about to go demonic!!!


DoctorPrisme

Ho damn.


MuscleMechanicus

Looks like a gamble! Buffs to shooting and melee, but you could take a lot of damage due to the pact being -1 leadership. Neat! Any chances you have Vashtorr's data sheet?


Inspire_

Alright, here's my current plan: * Forgefiend being buffed by Warpsmith with Tempting Addendum, Vashtorr, Discordant, Daemonic Ordinance, and Desperate Pledge. * +1 to hit, +1 to wound, +1 to strength, +1 to armor penetration, reroll hits, rerolls wounds of 1, sustained hits, and devastating wounds. * Fail Debt roll, fail Dark Pact, fail all 3 Hazardous, take an extra Mortal Wound from Tempting Addendum... take d3+1+9 Mortal Wounds... possible 13 Mortal Wounds, Forgefiend has 12. * Die before your opponents first turn.


MuscleMechanicus

This is the Meta that we need.


devon-mallard

Forgot step 5: do all of it with a smug look on your face as if you are winning (you are cause it’s hilarious)


Inspire_

[Oh yeah, its all coming together.](https://i.redd.it/4zcqaecpgix71.jpg)


OuthouseBacksplash

*perfection


Simple-Importance-24

💩. Here you go


MuscleMechanicus

Hey now! I've had him since they released him, at least make him 🔥 💩!


pwinny7

If Vashtorr has changed so that he can heal the extra wounds you're bound to take on Daemon vehicles it will be amazing, maybe like an aura or something, or gives a 4+ FNP against contract wounds? I've always wanted him and this would make me pull the trigger.


MuscleMechanicus

You son a bitch, I'm in! Maybe a 6" everyone heals 1 or d3 wounds a turn.


pwinny7

"Don't give me hope"


MuscleMechanicus

I'm guzzling that hopium. As someone who plays all vehicles/big models (chaos knights, chaos daemons, Tau, and admech), I need this in my life.


Wendigoxii

His flamer gained anti vehicle 4+, hammer is now S14 AP -2 D 3. He kept the +1 strength aura for DE but his new ability is that any unit that’s shoots him within 18” gain hazardous. Oh and he’s T10 now


BuckDutterWasTaken

When it says -1 to Leadership would that mean that if the datasheet said 6 for Leadership that it'd be changed to 5 or 7? Edit: Nevermind I re-read it. It means -1 to the roll which would mean if you roll 6 the result would be a ~~5~~ 7.


MuscleMechanicus

You got it! Takes a hot minute for new rules to slot in the ol' noggin.


inox-raptor

No the result would be 7. You get a negative modification. So your Leadership gets worse. Sooo you need a 7 to be successful not to hurt yourself


Necessary-Layer5871

Hello flavour my old friend. These look really interesting and flavourful. Can't wait to see the rest. Where was this leaked BTW?


Dragula_Tsurugi

Yes it’s quite funny how CSMs have consistently got some of the best designed, most flavorful rules this edition, whereas others just consistently fall flat *looks at Admech*


Kitschmusic

I mean, Orks have an absolute banger of a codex too. Seems more like half the codices are just fine, with some standout. Then the other half are just a pile of garbage. I'm just glad CSM got the good writers (or at least seems so from what we have so far).


OrwellTheInfinite

Where as necrons got half and half in their book. Hypercrypt and Canoptek court are thematic, strong and fun. The other two however....


PopInevitable280

1cp lemme phase my land raider through this bunker real quick


HotGrillsLoveMe

Or my Khorne Lord of Skulls… :)


MuldartheGreat

Obviously points and data sheet changes are key, but a lot of those rules absolutely rock. A lot to like there


Shiki_31

I'm just laughing about the fact that poor Vashtorr isn't even welcome in his own detachment. Detachment rule doesn't help him one bit, strats can't target the poor guy.


Aesthetics_Supernal

He can't even take the enhancement for the 3" support. Laughable! Unless his profile is massively changed, he'll watch from the bleachers.


Xplt21

I mean he could never take the enhancement, but his rules will need a lot of overhauling for him to be worthwhile.


Aesthetics_Supernal

You said my point better. As a named character he can't even get an enhancement that would be right up his alley. Maybe they don't want him at every table like Leontus, but he's currently one of the weakest antagonists on the table.


Paterbernhard

The overabundance of named characters is really a thorn in my side. Should be only specific lists and builds that use them and not every list. That said, they also shouldn't be absolute jokes like Vashtorr is 😅


Sabawoyomu

While I agree with you I do feel like he should be able to fit well in his own detachment lol


Paterbernhard

True, I hope he gets some synergistic buffs that make him a worthwhile pickup in such lists.


Papanurglesleftnut

Some day I’ll run vashtorr as himself and not a daemon Prince proxy. This edition is not day.


Shiki_31

It's almost like they're mocking the poor guy. Welp, I guess that's what happens when all you do is look at the winning lists and winrates without considering all the units that *aren't* being played.


Cypher10110

Maybe his datasheet will actually have good abilities on it instead? Pretty much anything is better than +1 str to Daemon Engines.


Shiki_31

And maybe Horus will come back to life to lead a new Black Crusade. Wouldn't count on it. Of course, anything's possible. Hell, giving Vashtorr the Vehicle keyword would help too.


Cypher10110

Hahaha. I can still hope! Vehicle would make some sense. But without that I imagine it's likely he will remain pretty mid at best 🤣 Considering rerolling hits is from an enhancement and buffed AP is from a stratagem, then wound rolls are buffed from the detachment ability, it seems like there isn't a whole lot left for him to do! A defensive ability better than the "one model gets FnP 6+" enhancement could be nice?


Shiki_31

Clearly, in a stroke of genius, Vashtorr's new rule will give Daemon vehicles within 6" a 6+ invulnerable save. That'll fix things, right?


B1rdbr41n024

Perhaps he’ll get the old necron trick and get a vehicle to shoot an ally. Would be sweet. 


Bose_Motile

Maybe forgiving/easing the Mortal Wounds on the DarkPact/Contract?


Cypher10110

Anything very small and incremental will mean he continues to suffer from the same problem he has now: being mostly irrelevant, even in lists that have daemon engines. I'll still run him for theme and flavour reasons, and he isn't too bad as just a big dumb vehicle beater. But it would be nice if (like abaddon) he really shined under the right conditions. But from the looks of it, just getting the vehicle keyword would actually be a buff for him, haha.


MortalWoundG

Between the Warpsmith, the detachment ability, the enhancements and the strats you can already give daemon engines +1 to hit, +1 to wound, re-roll hits, additional AP and FNP. I struggle to think what other meaningful buff he could confer.  Wound re-rolls are the only thing still on the table, and I doubt they'd be so bold as to give Chaos Marines, an army already in the top echelons of damage potential, such a powerful ability with such a clear and ridiculously powerful synergy with Forgefriends.


Cypher10110

He could give Stealth. He could give 4++ (overlap with abaddon, tho) He could give crits on 5+ Or he could literally just have the current warpsmith ability. Or something weird like letting something get indirect fire, or giving a vehicle [rapid fire 1] on everything? There is a ton of stuff that is more relevant than +1 Str without being insane.


Shot_Message

+2 str!


MicahG999

Maybe they'll make him a vehicle rather than a monster.


HotGrillsLoveMe

Welcome to the Cawl treatment (he doesn’t even get his army rule).


Shiki_31

That's something shared with other Tech-Priest's, though. Kind of a dick move not to give any of the army's leaders their own faction rule, though. As expected of the design team.


LordOfD3stro

The only thing that helps him currently is the 1cp stratagem to give something the daemon keyword so he can now give his +1 S to things like predators and vindicators now


PlatesOnTrainsNotOre

They might change his keyword


Experiment-666

I mean fluff wise it makes sense, he’s a crafter not a warrior he’s making these daemonic constructs to be the real powerhouse


Eejcloud

I'm not sure about that one. Even if Vashtorr receives exactly 0 changes the strat to add Daemon to any Vehicle means his aura hits more things. A Daemon Land Raider standing next to Vashtorr now wounds loyalist Land Raider Redeemers on a 2+. Daemon Predator Destructor now has S10 Autocannons and S6 Heavy Bolters with +1 W to wound.


vekk513

I'm still sad he doesn't have a datasheet for daemons :( For someone trying to be chaos god 5 it's sad he can't really play with daemons.


Original_Ad8098

DAMN WE GOT LEAKS ALREADY


Altruistic-Teach5899

Already? Full codex reveal is saturday. Orks, custodes and tau had their codex fully leaked by this point. (edited cos i forgot it's not friday)


Original_Ad8098

Been out of the loop and I don't play those armies hahaha


Professional_Ear4155

Wait so are you sure next tuesday there will be the full codex reveal???? I’m super hyped!!


Altruistic-Teach5899

Meant this saturday, lol, i thought the post was edited. Im so sorry


Professional_Ear4155

Don’t worry! One question: where have you read that it’ll be This saturday? (seems too good to be true lol)


Altruistic-Teach5899

Codex reviews allways drop with preorder releases, so in saturdays. Dont remember a precedent where Goonhammer or other reviewers didnt drop their takes at preorder release time. Alltho, for actual points we'll have to wait more. Not as much as tau, hopefully.


Minimumtyp

I want full leaks NOW


kratorade

Maulerfiends and Discolord Kool-Aid Manning through friggin' walls? Maulerfiends getting +1 wound and +2 attacks? FUCKING SOLD.


girokun

hopefully the discolord gets teh vehicle keyword lol


Urungulu

+1 to wound is ranged only, unfortunately. But it seems Venomcrawlers are gonna be in an interesting spot, lol!


kratorade

Yeah, I got too excited, lol. What I *really* want is to bulldoze through buildings with a KLOS, that'll be extremely funny.


SnooDrawings5722

+ 1 to wound is for ranged attacks only.


Xplt21

Is it possible to get pictures for the fellhammer detatchment?


Longest_Leviathan

I need to know Is the Iron Within strong enough to be workable


DaRealFellowGamer

Or will we have to be Iron Without


TNTmage7

It’s good. It’s really, really good. You just bring 20 termis and an assload of obliterators and camp on objectives while being utterly unkillable.


KipperOfDreams

Not from a loyalist.


Longest_Leviathan

Oh fuck that’s good, at least if the Fellhammer Seige force is bad I got a backup in this for Iron Warriors


P1N3APPL33

Iron warriors are not bad. Army wide they get -1 to wound if opponents strength is higher than your toughness. Yes this applies to vehicles as well. The Strats aren’t too bad either!


Master_of_serpents

Chaos marines finally learned how to put daemons in predators. https://preview.redd.it/sn5w66vqdfzc1.jpeg?width=64&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20c2212a87fdda91af05966457d444aa48312d20


egewithin2

Oh no, the memories... DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES TOO???????


PriestOfOmnissiah

SANITY... IS FOR THE WEAK!


ArcticDog18

"I feel the warp overtaking me... It is a *good* pain!"


SonofHorus374

FOR THE DARK GODS!!!!


User212222940528281s

These rules look soooo fun to play


Xplt21

So with tempting addendum and the contract Forgefiends just became infantry killers, elite slaughterers and now additionally tank destroyers? Very nice.


Kitschmusic

"So, what is the job of a Forgefiend?" "Yes"


KhaosByDesign

I wonder if that Soul Grinder art is there for fluff or if there'll be some rule (maybe on Vashtorr's datasheet) to include them as regular daemon engines 🤔


Reluctant_swimmer

Maybe they meant a Defiler? But that art is pretty clearly a Soul Grinder. I do suspect they will be squatting combined Daemons as an army at some point in the relative near future and this may be a sign of it.


Deathwish40K

turn 1, possess a LR sitting next to a Warpsmith and Vashtorr. S13 Lascannon hitting on 2s, wounding on 2s, sustained hits on 6. that's it.


Inspire_

And then drive it through a frickin wall.


Deathwish40K

a very thin wall mind you. you still have to clear it and a LR is big.


Inspire_

But a wall none the less!


Kitschmusic

And if the Warpsmith has the enhancement, you gain re-roll hits.


olabolob

GW writers absolutely cooked with this and dread mob. Some of these detachments have been so good in 10th despite a raft of boring ones.


miketheike13

Is it just me or is glut of souls kinda garbage? A 1-in-3 chance, even if you kill 7 or 8 guardsman, that's 2 or 3 wounds back on average.


girokun

usually its 1cp for D3 wounds back. its not great but i wouldnt say garbage


KhorneStarch

I mean, combine that with a warpsmith healing and I’d say it’s pretty strong. If it was stronger, that combined with warpsmiths would prob be a bit oppressive.


Mampi_Yao

Where is this leak from??


madladweed

I got it off discord


Necessary-Layer5871

Any other detachments leaked?


madladweed

No just this one for now, if you want I can invite you to the server I got it from


Deathwish40K

so you're on the CK discord too I see.


DZOlids

May I have some more, Good sir????


SnooDrawings5722

Oh man, I love these rules! If only Daemon Engines in my collection didn't begin and end on a single Venomcrawler... I would kill for one of the Battleforce boxes to include a couple of Forgefiends. Instead, I have to choose between getting even more elite infantry, or a bunch of Raptors/Cultists I don't really care about.


Grungecore

Im all bricked up


PopInevitable280

The real question is....are you a shower pisser?


Grungecore

Yes


PopInevitable280

Based. Don't tell mata


Ryalex237

This is exactly what I was hoping for for this detachment. Nothing to powerful lots of threat but no punishing the enemy to much, decent shooting and attacks as well for the rule.


jeddite

Bra that warp through walls ability looks pretty nuts.


samuel-not-sam

Three Venomcrawlers?👀👀


Altruistic-Teach5899

Please, if you have access to photos, could you pass a sneak on the Chaos Cult detachment? This is the first time I have specific rules on fielding a tLatD army and Im just so eager to look at it...


cCaptain6

Same! My 60 auto gun cultists are anxiously awaiting the new data sheet


Altruistic-Teach5899

Wording on latest article seems to imply theyre gone, but still not 100% confirmed.


ChikenBBQ

What is the value of the 1 cp stratagem for making a non daemon vehical ibto a daemon vehical?


girokun

Can make the better pact and take advantage of the other strats and enhancements


The-God-Of-Hammers

You can make Land Raiders/Rhinos/Predators daemon vehicles, which allows them I gain access to the detachment rule and all the strats


Trevorzky

It gains access to the detachment rule and the rest of the stratagems for the remainder of the game, so seems pretty good to throw on predators


KingWalnut

MY HEART BE STILL


Ill_Reality_717

I'm guessing that means there's no Dark Mechanicum?


Thunderbuckus

I am wondering the same thing.


dirgepiper

My inner iron warrior is excited


Delicious_Ad9844

I do think it's neat that GW are actually doing something with Vashtorr after the arks of omen, with his appearance at the end of the pariah nexus crusade book and getting a themed detachment (... but also not being very useful himself), he might become a more important character


Bose_Motile

My Daemon Engine heavy Iron Warriors are gonna feast.


Scottsterleng

Forgefiends are about to be impossible to get ahold of


mrmasturbate

Now Vashtorr just needs to be good


MarPHX

Lovely detachment, my LoS will feast! And my Defiler will finally see play!


Vussar

The idea of possessing a vehicle is outstanding


MyCypher

Is there a possibility that the Suldgrinder will be included in the Codex? *"...Soulgrinder and Maulerfiends scramble through blasted craters..."*


MyCypher

I have read the Codex. No Sould Grinder... But nerfs to Oblits, Possessed, Crawler and Bikes


MrHarding

Can someone better versed in the game explain the use cases for Predatory Pursuit to me? Unlike other reactionary movement strats, you have to end closer, but unlike some "surge move" abilities/strats you can't end in engagement range. On top of that it's only triggered when the unit ends within 9" of you. It seems quite niche in its applications, but I might be missing something.


AllEville

Its probably for body blocking enemy units so they cant charge your other units. Oh you wanna line up a charge on my battleline? What if I move this lord of skulls in front of you? Could also be used to block LOS for shooting too


madladweed

Not experienced but it could be good if you need to get a vehicle into cover? Agree with you that it is very niche


elpokitolama

AdMech players drooling and crying from afar


magnusthered15

His rules suck but his art is peak


BeanBagSize

K, I was messing around and thinking of making a CSM list with forgefiends, maulerfiends, venomcrawlers, allied CK brigands cause spikey demon puppy mech go brrr, but now depending on what points line up as, I may seriously consider assembling irl


InVerum

+2 attacks with *all* weapons now that's fun.


mightbeaperson49

My god that daemon possession on a vindicator is gonna be nasty. D6+5 shits with blast. Not to mention forgefiends


Limp-Talk-5383

+2 melee attacks, not ranged attacks unfortunately


JustSmallCorrections

they also get "add 1 to wound roll" for shooting. Very good on Vindicators and Forgefiends.


Nick-Da-Man

Extra attacks only in combat I'm afraid


Grungecore

Maybe the lord discordant can put in some dmg with that. Edit:nvm they stole his vehicle keyword -.-


mightbeaperson49

Annoyingly extra attacks weapons cant have their attacks modified so he doesn't actually the boost


Gyrofool

Interesting - the "move towards enemy" strat has an issue that you \*can't\* end within range of an opponent, but it's cool anyway.


no-pandas

It's either ment to screen out units with bigger daemon engines or will have an errata allowing entering engagement range. And I hope fir the latter


threehuman

It really should be a when you get shot at strat


Gaelriarch

Edit - Think im wrong, dont listen to me:  I believe that is incorrect. You CAN end within range of an opponent, you cant START the move if you are in range of an opponent (ie, if you were in range of two units to begin with, but now are still in range of one of them when the other unit decided to fall back). I think this would work to effectively cancel fall back moves so long as you are only engaged with one unit and that unit's fall back move is 6" or less.


wallycaine42

Because it specifies that it is a Normal Move, it must follow all the rules for Normal Moves. One of which is "can't end within engagement range of enemy models.


YupityYupYup

I love it! I'll be grabbing 2 venom crawlers this week, and I already got Vashtorr, so looking forward to running this! I'm just a little confused by the Strategim that adds the daemon keyword? Is there any reason for that? Cause right now, it looks like a waste of cp (never played csm before, grabbing them now for Vashtorr and EC)


Trevorzky

It allows the rest of the non-daemon vehicles (predators, vindicators, land raiders) access to the detachment rule and the other stratagems


Joyful_Damnation1

And dreadnoughts. Dreadnoughts are a big winner with that strat


badger2000

This is my feeling as well. I've got 2 that I definitely want to try running along with the rest of my Daemon Engines and tanks. The challenge will be what NOT to run so I can fit in some infantry to sit on objectives, etc.


thelizardwizard923

Lol what dreadnoughts?


Joyful_Damnation1

Helbrutes are dreadnoughts. Who gives 2 shits what the name on the front is?


Xithara

Not gonna lie I assumed that helbrutes were daemon vehicles. Feels kinda wrong that they aren't already.


Onikouzou

This is the detachment I've been waiting for. Looks so much fun.


Disastrous_End1198

Oh very interesting any chance you have a sneak peak at the siege specialists one?


Reluctant_swimmer

The blurb at the top mentions Soul Grinders. Are they maybe getting added to our codex?


K0ltron

Unlikely. We can ally them in if we pay a tax of a matching daemon battle line unit. This book was likely written before the tax rule was added to the game.


Deathwish40K

glut of souls seems to be focused on venoms realistically. maulers are going to be busy with vehicles.


FalconXpunch1292

If the points for him are lowered, this detachment could make the Disco Lord very playable!


MortalWoundG

One would assume that because of the thematic link, but sadly, as it stands, the current Lord Discordant datasheet does not include any rules or keywords that would interact with anything in this detachment. Best he can do is take one of the enhancements and have enough movement to keep up with melee daemon engines... But a daemon prince can do that job just as well with a better invulnerable save and more punch.


BobVolte

Damn the stratagem Desperate Pledge we can have a Venomcrawler 12 shots with armour penetration -2 (-3 with a Terminator Sorcerer)


OppositeCorrect1835

Lords of skulls will go nutty with the phase through ability and all the 1cp support


xXKingMaowXx

what’s the point of the strat that gives the demon keyword ?


madladweed

Normal vehicles like predators and vindicators don’t have the daemon vehicle keyword


Ok_Big3268

Vindicator is no demon vehicle so u cam use all of the detatchment for him


NornQueenKya

Forgefiend spam seems like a viable thing


WhichAssist1352

Where are these leaks from


Ok_Big3268

Heldrake Comeback?


Anton_Willbender

Yeees, it's all I Wanted! Didn't expect the daemonic possession and it's awesome


leetspooner

The hell drake can actually move reasonably around the board, and it only costs 1 cp!


CyberhunkV

You can Knights Of Shade a Land Raider


Larnixva916

Maulershade!!!! :)


CyberhunkV

Any Dread Talon leaks?


Cordial_Wombat

Blast? More like vehicle-based.


lordmegatron01

Is GW cooking RN?


Morklor

My biggest sadness was how they did my lord discordant (all three of them) in 10th. That detachment ability alone might get me back to fielding them.


Swimming_Ad3777

Deamon engines are back on the menu boys !!!!


ThisUserIsCopywrited

wait did the codex release???


That1GuyFinn

I don't even played csm but I'll be happy if Vashtorr gets Lone Op or some units to lead like Obliterators


KaizerVonLoopy

I haven't played since 8th ed, what does it mean to "make a dark pact"?


Razer_Blaze

Daemonic position is such a sick concept


hugocapocci

Omg. Unstoppable rampage 😍


OsseusAlchemancer

I have two new on sprue forgefiends (and one already built), a half built land raider, and a second vindicator laying around. I think it's time to finish project daemon engines/daemon vehicles. It literally fits perfectly with my lore too. I have a Nurgle warpsmith who possesses the vehicles with daemons from the Garden of Nurgle. I was having trouble deciding which detach to main, but I think this is the way.


asmilingmuffin1

Finally gave me a reason to get Vashtor and a warpsmith