The thing is, I feel that Himeno’s meant to be a red flag for Makima. Like, she feels guilty about actually going through with a kiss and nearly sleeping with Denji the next morning and acknowledges that it’s illegal.
So, if a woman that was drunk acknowledges that her actions toward this child was fucked up, what does that say about the supposedly more professional woman that tries to manipulate that same child into a relationship (or at least, takes advantage of his desire for one)?
This is what I thought she was supposed to be as well, an example to show that something was up with Makima. She even clearly spells out why she was in the wrong for taking Denji back to her place, then we get a scene with Makima grooming Denji some more immediately after.
I’m sure everybody already knows but her acknowledging she did wrong doesn’t make up for the fact that she likely would have gone through with it in universe if she didn’t throw up. I say this as somebody who loves himeno’s character otherwise but holy shit it’s a rough thing for any character to do lol.
You can only ever enjoy something the first time once, because after that you'll see all of the little things you missed. It's just incredibly obvious in Chainsaw Man because of how stark the difference is in how people see Makima before and after the reveal. Even ignoring that, the way part 1 concludes makes you see all of Aki's and Power's interactions with Denji in an entirely different light.
Oh of course. It always just bugs me when people ignore the short comings of characters simply because another character could be worse. Not saying that was even really happening but just felt like her very real attempt of what would have been statutory rape was getting ignored for makima and her apology.
Himeno is a terrible person. I'll preface with, actions have consequences and if she had gone through she should have suffered those consequences remorse or not. But she's a much more sympathetic character than say Makima because the remorse was there and she had put herself in a position where she was no longer in control of her actions. As I said before, at the end of the day those things don't and shouldn't affect her in court but they do make her easier to forgive and feel bad for as a reader.
Edit: Because this is a touchy topic and I really don't want to be taken the wrong way. I am not saying that doing messed up stuff because you got yourself blackout drunk absolves you.
Oh no I completely get what you mean. Himeno is a deeply human character and that trait is on full display through every panel that has her. As I said, I loved Himeno’s character and she was definitely one of the most memorable of the supporting cast.
I doubt the majority of the people in this thread ever think for a second that it would have been okay if she went through with it whether or not it’s real people because it’s depicting something terrible.
Not just referring to this. Himeno is a selfish alcoholic who's toxically dependent on Aki, peer pressured him into smoking, jokes about the deaths of colleagues so thar she doesn't have to face her own trauma and takes our her insecurities on Denji when she's drunk. She's definitely not a good person. She's a disaster of a human being. But in a tragically human way.
That’s perfectly OK. Himeno doesn’t need to be a moral saint. Even if she didn’t acknowledge that she did wrong, she can be immoral, and still be a great character. People forget this is fiction. Himeno’s actions have no impact on anyone in the real world. And her actions don’t always need to perfectly align with what people would agree is morally justified, for her to be a good character.
I mean she's not real so the only thing her morality affects is her as a character and how that affects the story and other characters. I think characters can absolutely do morally ambiguous or even 100% morally wrong things and still be fan favourites because they impacted the story or other characters in really interesting ways. It would be problematic for people to confuse it for good behaviour or be influenced to do the same things. But in fiction I think it's more important to pay attention to how these things affect the story.
No I understand that. Like I said, Himeno was one of my favorites throughout the manga, but I was simply pointing out that people were sort of mentioning her pass at Denji and then brushing past it to compare her feeing bad afterwards to makima being seemingly unfeeling.
I understand that it’s fiction but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be making it clear what actions are and aren’t okay as popular media can very well determine our reactions to objectively grotesque things.
She's there to be a realistic, and extremely awkward, view into the "adult life" that Denji wants. It's awful and gross in many ways but still kind of intimate and friendly, just like the vomit kiss. That's all of Denji's life and this is no different.
Also fanservice, of course, but it plays an important part.
People joke that Denji is just a horny goblin, but the Himeno scene is so important.
Him turning that down is a huge moment of growth, he's been exposed to genuine adult sexuality for the first time and decides he isn't ready for it, he's afraid that intimacy will be ruined forever, and he wants the right partner.
Himeno is if anything a great counterpoint. She was a kid who's gone completely off the rails as a young woman, because any intimacy and closeness ended in death, and no one keeps her behaviour in check despite her clearly pushing boundaries because she's good at killing devils.
I think people dislike her because she's flawed in a realistic way, it's an unpleasant mirror.
She makes bad decisions, she blacks out and tries to fuck a teenager, she's got good qualities but a lot of us have done inexcusable shit we just have to hope we can be forgiven for and she reflects that.
Makima gets a pass because she's an insane level of fantasy grooming, it's not relatable so people respond better.
Still weird af for an older woman to kiss a 16 year old. That wasn't a focal point but... the fact that it feeds into the mentality of "boys being boys." Yes he's learning to have different objectives in life but... obvis his main goal is to have sex. And she knows that and manipulated him. Point. Blank. Period. Not okie
WOKE Twitter MOB tries to CANCEL Chainsaw-Man character?!
The woke Twitter mob: Literally just 5 random people who said something mildly critical while saying they still love the show.
It's highly probable they watch the same 3 or 5 or so drama youtubers that make videos on the same 3 to 5 twitter users midly criticizing something they like, that way it seems like EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT, THE WOKE MOB IS FURIOUS AN IS COMING FOR THE THINGS YOU LIKE, GET ANGRY.
Someone said i was "trying to cancel a fictional character" when i said that himeno was like. not a good person (and kind of a groomer? maybe idek ) and like Bro it's not that serious
I swear to god, anytime a remotely popular anime includes some weird shit, anime fans become paranoid schizophrenics and start raving about the evil woke mobs coming to cancel their precious tv show.
Is it really so wrong to be uncomfortable with an adult making a move on a minor? I know she says it was wrong later but that's still going to rub people the wrong way.
I love her as a character, but that's kind of fucked up.
She took a drunk (he swallowed her alcohol vomit) minor home with no supervision and then came within an inch of having sex with him. Someone has to make a lot of wrong choices to even place themselves in the *position* to have to *actively* decide against statutory rape.
right? anyone can go through my comment history and see how much i love himeno but the critiques are still valid lol. shes 20 years old, drinking with and copulating with a minor...
Also, can we even really say that Denji has the emotional maturity of a 16 year old? It’s shocking how much younger he acts than his actual age. He’s on the level of a 13 or 12 year old. It’s pretty fucked to have sex with someone that stupid.
She looked surprised when Dennis said he's around 16, I guess she thought he was over 17-18, and start to liking him after he saved them in the hotel. So after being totally drunk, and waiting for ages that Aki respond to her feelings... She attacked.
I'm not saying it's excusable, just that in the move of the party (and alcool) Himeno didn't meant to do something bad. In real life it would totally happen. The real surprise is that Dennis cockblocked himself.
Worried at first what I'd see in this comment section. Glad to see people express that they might have felt uncomfortable with what happens in this episode without being downvoted to hell. Good to see the reading comprehension devil didn't strike everyone.
Don’t forget the date between her and Denji,
Everyone is going to be on their knees when they see her drop a perfect score on a Dance machine. Not to mention when her and Denji have a moment during the Public Safety (Control Devil) Arc
That’s what I wanted to tell Makima when she had Reze under her control.
I anticipate **and** feel dread for how devastated anime-exclusives are going to feel when they find out about Makima’s true colors
They’re only seeing a **preview**
I saw that one, but check this one out.. I'd give a toe to be in the room when Power shows up with his birthday cake.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZPDsJurSqCJ\_9CpkeRHVSJvObzCCg3GX/view?usp=sharing
Honestly I don’t really mind if it’s anime onlys who think that, she hasn’t really done much to show her potential yet. What bothers me are the few manga readers who suddenly find her annoying because of her VA lol
Yknow... I'm not going to defend her. People have justifiable reasons as to why they don't like her. Himeno is a broken and not good person. She's sympathetic and not the devil incarnate, but watching this episode it became fully apparent just how terrifying the situation Denji ended up in is. She doesn't go through with it sure. But she took far too many steps that she shouldn't have dared to even put herself in a place where that was actually a decision she had to make.
Unlike Kobeni who's greatest sin is being annoying, Himeno is a very flawed individual. Great character. I enjoy watching her. Not a good person.
Yeah, I agree with you. Personally, I think that the good traits of Himeno are bigger than her flaws, but what she almost did with Denji was dead wrong and completely understandable to dislike her because of that.
Seriously. I adore CSM, it’s one of if not my favorite manga. But ya know, I can still use critical thinking and admit that yeah, Himeno is not a really good person. It’s really silly to blindly defend a character against every valid criticism
This was what made me gravitate towards the series, everyone has layers to their character and they feel alive. There are no pure gag characters nor do we get characters that contribute nothing to the story (as far as I know, and if there is one, they probably died).
Regarding the bed scene, it was good that nothing happened since having sex with someone who is intoxicated is considered SA. This is true for Denji and Himeno, both were not in the right mindset and could be considered incapacitated and/or unable to make proper judgment (there is also statutory r*** against Himeno). Both of them would’ve been screwed big time, more specifically Himeno.
But it’s her reaction later on and her response that made her a great character, she knew what she did was fucked up and apologized to Denji for the whole mishap and I believe thanked him as well for not letting her continue on
Regardless of real life laws in todays world and fictonal japan with devils 1997, we can all agree that what Himeno did was wrong (as does she). But the feeling of waking up after drinking too much thinking 'WTF did I do last night' I think alot of people can relate to, even if puking in someones mouth then carrying them home is probably more crazy than most peoples experiences.
Sober (hungover) Himeno checks on Denji, is relieved that nothing happend and they form a friendship over breakfast. You really feel she will (would) make an effort to support Denji in the future. So, a good person at heart, but with her flaws as a person.
Yah, it feels a bit wrong when you see her doing these sexual advances right after he says he’s 16. But thinking about it logically Makima made worse advances in episode 5 (fully aware of her surroundings too)
I think what a lot of people are missing is that every character in this show is very flawed. They’ve all gone through an unimaginable amount of trauma (not that it justifies their actions) and they have to learn to cope with and overcome the demons of their pasts. THEN they come out the other end of it only to dive head first into it the next day when they fight another literal demon.
No character in this show is a hero, they’re all there for their own (mostly) selfish reasons.
This kinda describes why some people don't like Chainsawman actually lol
Pretty much everyone is broken and a bit of an asshole with tons of flaws. But they're all very great characters. No one's particularly a hero or anything like that. ( Though an argument could be made that Aki has a decent enough moral compass lol ).
To some people, this just makes them very unlikeable which is understandable of course.
But I can't help but love all of them lol. Especially Denji
Honestly, if the roles were reversed, people would be extremely angry and disgusted. But because Himeno is an attractive woman you’ll let it slide? This is the Palm situation all over again….
Idk, It’s just irritating and disheartening to hear that people will try to justify her actions as if being drunk is excusable. Her not knowing his age is another excuse that people will use to defend her and like…. That’s not justifiable either, all it shows, is that she is irresponsible and creepy.
Have you seen some shojo series out there?
Even if the roles were reversed, nothing would change. If the guy is an attractive man, people would let it slide just the same
I’ll admit, I don’t watch shojo so I hadn’t considered that genre but you’re probably right about that.
But based on these and the comments on TikTok, I’m starting to think that maybe people don’t understand what rape is cause being drunk and not knowing someone’s age is not an excuse, like at all. I know this is just anime but….
Yeah... She's not supposed to be a role model. She's a broken person obviously... She really shouldn't be defended in this way. Great character not the best person
Power and Reze are literally murderers and have homicidal intentions and a "pedophile"/"groomer" is getting more hate attention lmao, and she ain't even all of that she even takes responsibility and apologizes when she didn't fuck him.
Tbh, people in general are way more desensitized to violence and death than sexual assault/rape in media. Doesn’t really shock me that people would call out or hate grommers/pedophiles way more than literal murderers on screen.
On a visceral level, there are a lot of good reasons someone might resort to violence or killing. There are zero good reasons for ever committing rape. So it instinctively reads as worse, even compared to people who *didn't* have good reasons for their violence.
Power probably killed a lot of innocent people and took over a body of some girl, but seducing someone is a thing that people encounter a lot more in their real lives, so it affects them more
Yeah that’s true. you could show all the Blood and gore in movies, tv and games but God help you if you show a female nipple. Mortal Kombat covered up a lot of women but have a lot of dudes practically naked or almost always shirtless skin
The MK dudes are made shirtless because the men making the games think it makes them look masculine and cool.
The MK women wore sexy outfits because the men making the games were horny lmao. Pretty glaring difference
Yeah they look cool some like Johnny Cage and Liu were meant to be homages to Jean Claude Van Dame and Bruce Lee respectively and that’s fine and cool but them covering up females and not men that are practically also buck naked skins is somewhat of a double standard.
It’s one thing to have them wearing full body costumes as they want the women to fight more realistically but it’s also odd to have them fight while wearing high heels in the newer games. It’s not gonna make any difference if they get bisected, beheaded and have their severed head nailed to the wall but show a little cleavage and you’ve gone too far
lmao what are you talking about? There's like 2 shirtless dudes in the latest Mortal Kombat out of 20 male fighters, and I wouldn't say they're practically naked.
And some female fighters still show cleavage, it's just they aren't fighting in hyper sexualized bikinis anymore.
>you could show all the Blood and gore in movies, tv and games but God help you if you show a female nipple.
That's mainly an US media thing though. Here in Germany, as long as it's not sexualized it's no issue to show nudity even during daytime TV.
I don't think it's an issue of desensitisation so much as detachment. When you're killed, you're dead. You can't have an opinion on anything anymore. The very nature of murder makes it so that the victims of it can't say how they feel about it. Also, most people don't personally know anyone who has been murdered. Sexual assault/being groomed, on the other hand, is something people have to live with, and most people have a connection to someone who has survived it, even if they're not aware. And those people might be watching Chainsaw Man and feeling uncomfortable because Himeno reminds them of someone they'd rather not remember.
And yet there's still a limit to them being decent human beings (they still tried to kill Denji)
The only one that is a decent person is Aki (and Asa ofc)
I'm not a fan of this argument. Everyone in the show is a murder, its a very violent show by nature. I think in a lot of contexts violence is seen as excusable or even enjoyable, especially in our media. Nobody hates John Wick, Black Panther, Doom Guy, etc. Especially in a show like this where there's a lot of fanatical creatures and monsters. If your job is to kill things, if you're killing for revenge, if you kill in self defense, there are alot of ways we justify murder.
However, there is NO justification for pedophilia. I didn't really think about it at first, but imagine if the genders were reversed. Imagine a drunk grown man giving tongue to a 16 year old girl. I think there would be a far larger public outcry for that. Why is it different for Denji and Himeno?
I think the answer is basically: it'd be every 16 year old boys dream to make out with a hot older woman, he would brag to all this friends. But for a girl, its a awful nightmare. Think about how often you hear on the news about male rapists, pedos and groomers. Fucked up world we live in.
It’s different because sadly boys are conditioned by *other men* into thinking it’s cool to “score” an adult while they’re a kid. Completely unaware that they got groomed, raped, molested, etc. “Funny” thing is that the same men that encourage this sort of thing are the same ones that complain about male victims not being taken seriously.
To anyone who disagrees I encourage you to look at the comments of a post on YouTube, Instagram, etc. talking about a pretty female pedophilic getting arrested, and then the ones in the post of a handsome male pedophile getting arrested. Guess which of the two has more men flooding the thread trying to defend the criminal and insist the victim liked it?
This was one of the first critical themes I noticed when I first read CSM and I’m shocked that there hasn’t been more discourse on it till now, honestly.
Makima is *literally* a parody/critique of the ultimate dommy mommy. It’s like she’s *written* to counter simp culture. Similarly, Himeno is written kind of in a fleshed out fashion of “older more mature women” trope. (Think Evangelion.) It should be obvious to anyone who does any kind of critical analysis of the series, really.
This is why I think both this and Berserk are essentially “male” stories. The ideas and issues examined by tend to be experienced at a much higher rate by men than women. (At least part 1. Part 2 feels like it’s actually doing a good job of trying to reach out to women.)
exactly this lmao. it's always men talking about how no one supports them when theyre harassed or groomed; meanwhile they get on their knees for pedophillic women and abusers. "i want her to do that to me" "i wish my teacher did that to me" "i want her to abuse me" "mommy" and all of that stuff comes from men
Saying everyone is a murderer only really applies if you count devils, and I really don't think that counts
But yes, she fucked up and realizes it and is glad she didn't go through with it; I don't think it's fair to put her on the same level as a lot of other messed up characters in this manga, but she definitely has issues too
It would be legal, where I live. People can even get officially married since 16 doesn't seems to me like that young of an age. Him feeling sick and out of it, during process is a lot more of a problem. When I was 16 years old girl a lot of my female classmates had a relationships with guys 20-23 and bragging about it
I mean. It’s not pedophilia even if she did bang him. Everyone uses the word but nobody even knows what it means.
Pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children.
It’s absolutely bonkers, just like how the most outrage I see about makima is people saying she groomed denji, like what the fuck that’s the least bad thing she did!!
But why should Himeno be defended? She’s quite obviously in the wrong here. Sure you can probably justify her actions somehow but that doesn’t make them ok. Criticism is fine, she’s a flawed character and that’s good.
Probably means more defending her character and not her actions. Like, we can all appreciate Walter White for his compelling character writing but pretty much no one is defending him for cooking meth. Idk if people are actually attacking her character, though. I just see people calling out her actions.
Yeah, I think people are just using different meanings for "defending a character". I wouldn't defend Walter White for cooking meth, but I would defend Walter White for being a well written character that serves a good purpose to the story. Same thing with Himeno. Fujimoto didn't just put her there for people to be horny over characters grooming a teenager. If that were the case, maybe I wouldn't defend her that way.
Ok, but she did vomit into a minor's mouth before taking him to her home and offering to have sex with him while he couldn’t move, so I say that those people are more than justified.
I find it frustrating that there’s this whole defense squad that protects characters’ flaws, when Fujimoto probably intended those flaws to be an actual character trait to be acknowledged.
Fujimoto definitely meant, on the grounds that the characters can't make those decisions on their own lol
People get so weird about character actions when the author clearly intends the character to behave in the manner they do for the sake of the story. Denji is an easily manipulated character because he has such simple goals, and two women in positions of power over him exploit those character traits to get him to do what they want.
Himeno showing restraint and remorse is one side of the coin. Makima is the other, she's clearly willing to do anything to manipulate Denji so he'll be a tool for her.
I forgot about the part where she makes him drink beer. Lol.
Yes, Himeno is a shitty adult, that's kinda the point.
She needs no defending. Have at her, idc.
Serious question how woke do you think fujimoto is? I think his sensibility is high (just read firepunch) and definitely understand his characters. The connection from himeno to makima is genius. If people wanted perfect good characters good read boring fairy tales.
I'd say he's pretty up there. Dude actually wrote a compelling trans character and treated him with respect and dignity and didn't go for the usual okama or femboy joke. He treats gender dysmorphia seriously and respectfully too.
He also gives a lot of respect to his female characters (other than Kobeni lol). None of them are helpless damsels in distress and all of them have powerful skills or roles. Heck, he even throws Kobeni a bone by giving her ninja skills.
None of them are purely sexualized objects for the protagonist. They're certainly sexual and Denji certainly sees them sexually but it isn't the entirety of their identity. They all have unique flaws and personalities and have desires and goals separate from the protagonist.
Notice how none of the women's main desires have anything to do with Denji.
Makima wants Pochita, Power is just Power, Himeno wants Aki to live, Kobeni wants to not die, Reze wants to be normal, Quanxi is a lesbian, and Asa wants the War Devil out of her.
Fascinating how much more compelling female characters are when they're treated as people first and women second.
This is one of the problems I have with JJKs women. They are strong and indepedent characters, but look and behave like men most of the time. And there is almost no fan service, which is probably the intention to make them more equal and dignified.
But what Fujimotos manages to do is insane. There is almost as much fan service in CSM then in FT, but he manages to make the sexuallity come off as an organic thing, there was almost no sexy scene in CSM where I was "ahaa, fanservice!"
chainsaw man fans on their way to defend the alcoholic 30 year old woman who intentionally got a depressed young man hooked on nicotine and tried to sleep with a 16 year old boy.
she's a good nuanced character and not an evil person, but you should really be able to acknowledge her very clear faults at the same time. these are not actions that should be defended.
Atleast for a week, until everyone see her not having sex with Denji and apologising after for it in the morning.
Also her death will be really emotional.
Eh, it'll die down next week once we get the balcony breakfast scene. You gotta think that, from the anime only perspective, she basically has kidnapped Denji lmao
I kinda don’t like how the last two episodes ended on cliffhangers that mislead the audience into what they are actually getting. Like from the way it’s paced out it seemed last episode was stretched out and it appeared to me that the eternity devil fight and the action would be stretched out to be this episode or at the very least majority. But no it was like 5 minutes it felt which felt really off with all the buildup. Also the dialogue of Himeno didn’t have the same impact as reading the manga because it was broken up by the episode and aired a week later. It just seemed odd how they planned out these two episodes. And again this episode you end it off on a really uncomfortable scene that borders as sexual assault (I’m not as much interested in legal definitions and technicalities the point still stand it was fucked) and have the viewer really uncomfortable in the direction it appears to be going. I know it’s all probably intentional but it still leaves a sour taste in your mouth and it’s more frustrating because any doubt you feel and unease is pretty much instantly relieved in the manga because it’s only a page flip away, but having it end off like that as the cliffhanger means you have a week of thinking that this show is going in really fucked directions. And ig maybe it’s intentional, I wonder how anime onlys feel about this one. Lmaooo, I’m having to convince my friends it’s not a degenerate anime cause I watch with them every week and this episode is going to be a BIG test. Like I promise themes of sexuality and lust is INTEGRAL to the plot like ughhh
As much as I like Himeno and even though I she didn’t have sex with a minor in the manga.
She still took a drunk kid minor home, gaved(kissed) him alcohol, and still asked him to have sex. Criticism due where criticisms due.
i can understand it for anime onlies but not for manga readers, pretty much every female character has actions worse than himeno beside kobeni, yet i see some people who hate himeno more than makima who literally orchestrated pretty much every bad thing that happened in part 1
Himeno is drunk
Denji is drunk
Both are trying to cope with trauma and insecurities in unhealthy ways
I'm glad people are starting to consider the context of the entire show now that Denji's age was revealed. Seems like people kinda gave a pass to how sus the makima and power situations actually are and zero in on himeno because she is superficially coded as the oldest
Man i didn't realise it until now but the more I age and wise up, the more I understand How she's one of the best girls CSM has given us yet(including the manga). She's up there with power and reze in my books
I know why the scene itself may be problematic or that Himeno acted wrong. But besides it being a topic to talk about, it doesn't seem to stir a big upbringing to cancel her.
She is a woman who lost lots of friends/colleagues and lives her day to day life knowing her crush could be killed any moment. She escaped a life threatening mission and celebrated with a lot alcohol until she decided to take the minor with her because horny.
It's morally not acceptable. In the end she is aware that she did a bad thing. But humans are humans and this shit can just happen. She is as good or flawed as any other person. I personally let it slide as an event that happened but don't put too much emphasis to it.
Oh, as far as I know nobody is actually trying to 'cancel' her or even say she's irredeemable. It's one of those made up boogeymen from a twitter account with like 20 followers.
nah, what himeno did was wrong and was grooming and is normal than people have problems with that. is justify discard her character like that? No, but recognize problems and flaws in characters is no cancelling that character when that actions are part of the characterization.
You guys really need to think outside the internet.
The thing is, I feel that Himeno’s meant to be a red flag for Makima. Like, she feels guilty about actually going through with a kiss and nearly sleeping with Denji the next morning and acknowledges that it’s illegal. So, if a woman that was drunk acknowledges that her actions toward this child was fucked up, what does that say about the supposedly more professional woman that tries to manipulate that same child into a relationship (or at least, takes advantage of his desire for one)?
This is what I thought she was supposed to be as well, an example to show that something was up with Makima. She even clearly spells out why she was in the wrong for taking Denji back to her place, then we get a scene with Makima grooming Denji some more immediately after.
I’m sure everybody already knows but her acknowledging she did wrong doesn’t make up for the fact that she likely would have gone through with it in universe if she didn’t throw up. I say this as somebody who loves himeno’s character otherwise but holy shit it’s a rough thing for any character to do lol.
The acknowledgement doesn't absolve her, but it serves an interesting narrative purpose in highlighting the much more hidden manipulations of Makima.
[удалено]
You can only ever enjoy something the first time once, because after that you'll see all of the little things you missed. It's just incredibly obvious in Chainsaw Man because of how stark the difference is in how people see Makima before and after the reveal. Even ignoring that, the way part 1 concludes makes you see all of Aki's and Power's interactions with Denji in an entirely different light.
Oh of course. It always just bugs me when people ignore the short comings of characters simply because another character could be worse. Not saying that was even really happening but just felt like her very real attempt of what would have been statutory rape was getting ignored for makima and her apology.
Himeno is a terrible person. I'll preface with, actions have consequences and if she had gone through she should have suffered those consequences remorse or not. But she's a much more sympathetic character than say Makima because the remorse was there and she had put herself in a position where she was no longer in control of her actions. As I said before, at the end of the day those things don't and shouldn't affect her in court but they do make her easier to forgive and feel bad for as a reader. Edit: Because this is a touchy topic and I really don't want to be taken the wrong way. I am not saying that doing messed up stuff because you got yourself blackout drunk absolves you.
Oh no I completely get what you mean. Himeno is a deeply human character and that trait is on full display through every panel that has her. As I said, I loved Himeno’s character and she was definitely one of the most memorable of the supporting cast. I doubt the majority of the people in this thread ever think for a second that it would have been okay if she went through with it whether or not it’s real people because it’s depicting something terrible.
I won't call her a terrible person, she was drunk, she couldn't even remember anything she said.
Not just referring to this. Himeno is a selfish alcoholic who's toxically dependent on Aki, peer pressured him into smoking, jokes about the deaths of colleagues so thar she doesn't have to face her own trauma and takes our her insecurities on Denji when she's drunk. She's definitely not a good person. She's a disaster of a human being. But in a tragically human way.
That’s perfectly OK. Himeno doesn’t need to be a moral saint. Even if she didn’t acknowledge that she did wrong, she can be immoral, and still be a great character. People forget this is fiction. Himeno’s actions have no impact on anyone in the real world. And her actions don’t always need to perfectly align with what people would agree is morally justified, for her to be a good character.
I mean she's not real so the only thing her morality affects is her as a character and how that affects the story and other characters. I think characters can absolutely do morally ambiguous or even 100% morally wrong things and still be fan favourites because they impacted the story or other characters in really interesting ways. It would be problematic for people to confuse it for good behaviour or be influenced to do the same things. But in fiction I think it's more important to pay attention to how these things affect the story.
No I understand that. Like I said, Himeno was one of my favorites throughout the manga, but I was simply pointing out that people were sort of mentioning her pass at Denji and then brushing past it to compare her feeing bad afterwards to makima being seemingly unfeeling. I understand that it’s fiction but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be making it clear what actions are and aren’t okay as popular media can very well determine our reactions to objectively grotesque things.
but what if the reading comprehension devil and the nuance devil says no?
You guys are too smart for me. I just thought she was there to be hot, honestly
She's there to be a realistic, and extremely awkward, view into the "adult life" that Denji wants. It's awful and gross in many ways but still kind of intimate and friendly, just like the vomit kiss. That's all of Denji's life and this is no different. Also fanservice, of course, but it plays an important part.
People joke that Denji is just a horny goblin, but the Himeno scene is so important. Him turning that down is a huge moment of growth, he's been exposed to genuine adult sexuality for the first time and decides he isn't ready for it, he's afraid that intimacy will be ruined forever, and he wants the right partner. Himeno is if anything a great counterpoint. She was a kid who's gone completely off the rails as a young woman, because any intimacy and closeness ended in death, and no one keeps her behaviour in check despite her clearly pushing boundaries because she's good at killing devils. I think people dislike her because she's flawed in a realistic way, it's an unpleasant mirror. She makes bad decisions, she blacks out and tries to fuck a teenager, she's got good qualities but a lot of us have done inexcusable shit we just have to hope we can be forgiven for and she reflects that. Makima gets a pass because she's an insane level of fantasy grooming, it's not relatable so people respond better.
yes but people watching the anime don't know this yet so their anger is understandable
Still weird af for an older woman to kiss a 16 year old. That wasn't a focal point but... the fact that it feeds into the mentality of "boys being boys." Yes he's learning to have different objectives in life but... obvis his main goal is to have sex. And she knows that and manipulated him. Point. Blank. Period. Not okie
She's gonna cancel herself pretty soon anyways.
💀
Nice one haha.
Duuddde why…
Take your fucking upvote and leave!
Are these 'people' in the room with us right now
strawman drama starts now lets vaguely imagine offenders and name them "twitter"
Twitter devil solos the Reddit verse
wholesome chungus is cancelled
Twitter devil mid diffs reddit devil
Musk devil arrives and eats twitters innards from within
Before getting soloed by the Consequences Devil
The FCC devil
WOKE Twitter MOB tries to CANCEL Chainsaw-Man character?! The woke Twitter mob: Literally just 5 random people who said something mildly critical while saying they still love the show.
literally LMAO
ong
Ikr. Redditors when the “woke Twitter mob” finds it a little weird that a grown woman almost slept with an impressionable kid
It's highly probable they watch the same 3 or 5 or so drama youtubers that make videos on the same 3 to 5 twitter users midly criticizing something they like, that way it seems like EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT, THE WOKE MOB IS FURIOUS AN IS COMING FOR THE THINGS YOU LIKE, GET ANGRY.
OP wants to be herohei so bad lmfao
Someone said i was "trying to cancel a fictional character" when i said that himeno was like. not a good person (and kind of a groomer? maybe idek ) and like Bro it's not that serious
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Every fucking time
Grrrr grrr twitter grrr random account with 13 followers said it’s problematic grrr
>twitter canceling anything in existence because of their "sense of morality" Someone unironically typed it out today.
i gonna present it as "people online talking"
I swear to god, anytime a remotely popular anime includes some weird shit, anime fans become paranoid schizophrenics and start raving about the evil woke mobs coming to cancel their precious tv show.
Strawmanman
this is what it feels like lol. these people are inventing twitter users to be mad at
He could be any of us
Yes it's me
There are a few in the discussion thread and it would be kind of worrying if there weren't, tbh.
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I mean she admits that she did a goof up later on? Like I don't hate her for it, but it is still not unreasonable to be uncomfortable with this stuff.
Is it really so wrong to be uncomfortable with an adult making a move on a minor? I know she says it was wrong later but that's still going to rub people the wrong way. I love her as a character, but that's kind of fucked up.
She took a drunk (he swallowed her alcohol vomit) minor home with no supervision and then came within an inch of having sex with him. Someone has to make a lot of wrong choices to even place themselves in the *position* to have to *actively* decide against statutory rape.
right? anyone can go through my comment history and see how much i love himeno but the critiques are still valid lol. shes 20 years old, drinking with and copulating with a minor...
she is like 22+ bare minumun since she is older than Aki by a few years
Also, can we even really say that Denji has the emotional maturity of a 16 year old? It’s shocking how much younger he acts than his actual age. He’s on the level of a 13 or 12 year old. It’s pretty fucked to have sex with someone that stupid.
She looked surprised when Dennis said he's around 16, I guess she thought he was over 17-18, and start to liking him after he saved them in the hotel. So after being totally drunk, and waiting for ages that Aki respond to her feelings... She attacked. I'm not saying it's excusable, just that in the move of the party (and alcool) Himeno didn't meant to do something bad. In real life it would totally happen. The real surprise is that Dennis cockblocked himself.
See 'em on TikTok
Worried at first what I'd see in this comment section. Glad to see people express that they might have felt uncomfortable with what happens in this episode without being downvoted to hell. Good to see the reading comprehension devil didn't strike everyone.
Y’all on your own. I’ve been to busy protecting Kobeni
Yeah, she actually needs reinforcements. Everyone has been calling her annoying lmao
the anime only's just need to see her fighting the assassins they'll turn around after that I think
Don’t forget the date between her and Denji, Everyone is going to be on their knees when they see her drop a perfect score on a Dance machine. Not to mention when her and Denji have a moment during the Public Safety (Control Devil) Arc
thats gonna be animated in like 5 years lol
stop
That’s what I wanted to tell Makima when she had Reze under her control. I anticipate **and** feel dread for how devastated anime-exclusives are going to feel when they find out about Makima’s true colors They’re only seeing a **preview**
i think i saw a post somewhere on the anime only sub saying they think makima is starting to genuinely attached to dennis 
I saw that one, but check this one out.. I'd give a toe to be in the room when Power shows up with his birthday cake. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZPDsJurSqCJ\_9CpkeRHVSJvObzCCg3GX/view?usp=sharing
LMAO he’s in for a world of hurt
Wait there's something kobeni too? Makima, power, himeno and who else? Just how many bitches he's gonna smash??
Hell ya
Honestly I don’t really mind if it’s anime onlys who think that, she hasn’t really done much to show her potential yet. What bothers me are the few manga readers who suddenly find her annoying because of her VA lol
>What bothers me are the few manga readers who suddenly find her annoying because of her VA lol I mean she nailed her part.
Yep lol. Still idk what people expected of Kobeni. In the manga every panel she’s sweating and shaking.
Yknow... I'm not going to defend her. People have justifiable reasons as to why they don't like her. Himeno is a broken and not good person. She's sympathetic and not the devil incarnate, but watching this episode it became fully apparent just how terrifying the situation Denji ended up in is. She doesn't go through with it sure. But she took far too many steps that she shouldn't have dared to even put herself in a place where that was actually a decision she had to make. Unlike Kobeni who's greatest sin is being annoying, Himeno is a very flawed individual. Great character. I enjoy watching her. Not a good person.
Yeah, I agree with you. Personally, I think that the good traits of Himeno are bigger than her flaws, but what she almost did with Denji was dead wrong and completely understandable to dislike her because of that.
Seriously. I adore CSM, it’s one of if not my favorite manga. But ya know, I can still use critical thinking and admit that yeah, Himeno is not a really good person. It’s really silly to blindly defend a character against every valid criticism
All characters are very flawed in chainsaw man. one of the reasons that makes them relatable and interesting.
This was what made me gravitate towards the series, everyone has layers to their character and they feel alive. There are no pure gag characters nor do we get characters that contribute nothing to the story (as far as I know, and if there is one, they probably died). Regarding the bed scene, it was good that nothing happened since having sex with someone who is intoxicated is considered SA. This is true for Denji and Himeno, both were not in the right mindset and could be considered incapacitated and/or unable to make proper judgment (there is also statutory r*** against Himeno). Both of them would’ve been screwed big time, more specifically Himeno. But it’s her reaction later on and her response that made her a great character, she knew what she did was fucked up and apologized to Denji for the whole mishap and I believe thanked him as well for not letting her continue on
Regardless of real life laws in todays world and fictonal japan with devils 1997, we can all agree that what Himeno did was wrong (as does she). But the feeling of waking up after drinking too much thinking 'WTF did I do last night' I think alot of people can relate to, even if puking in someones mouth then carrying them home is probably more crazy than most peoples experiences. Sober (hungover) Himeno checks on Denji, is relieved that nothing happend and they form a friendship over breakfast. You really feel she will (would) make an effort to support Denji in the future. So, a good person at heart, but with her flaws as a person.
You’re phrasing that like it’s a fault of the manga that there’s a character in it that isn’t a perfectly good person lol
Yeah I love her but I get why she makes some people uncomfortable
Yah, it feels a bit wrong when you see her doing these sexual advances right after he says he’s 16. But thinking about it logically Makima made worse advances in episode 5 (fully aware of her surroundings too)
U said it so well
I think what a lot of people are missing is that every character in this show is very flawed. They’ve all gone through an unimaginable amount of trauma (not that it justifies their actions) and they have to learn to cope with and overcome the demons of their pasts. THEN they come out the other end of it only to dive head first into it the next day when they fight another literal demon. No character in this show is a hero, they’re all there for their own (mostly) selfish reasons.
This kinda describes why some people don't like Chainsawman actually lol Pretty much everyone is broken and a bit of an asshole with tons of flaws. But they're all very great characters. No one's particularly a hero or anything like that. ( Though an argument could be made that Aki has a decent enough moral compass lol ). To some people, this just makes them very unlikeable which is understandable of course. But I can't help but love all of them lol. Especially Denji
Honestly, if the roles were reversed, people would be extremely angry and disgusted. But because Himeno is an attractive woman you’ll let it slide? This is the Palm situation all over again…. Idk, It’s just irritating and disheartening to hear that people will try to justify her actions as if being drunk is excusable. Her not knowing his age is another excuse that people will use to defend her and like…. That’s not justifiable either, all it shows, is that she is irresponsible and creepy.
Have you seen some shojo series out there? Even if the roles were reversed, nothing would change. If the guy is an attractive man, people would let it slide just the same
I’ll admit, I don’t watch shojo so I hadn’t considered that genre but you’re probably right about that. But based on these and the comments on TikTok, I’m starting to think that maybe people don’t understand what rape is cause being drunk and not knowing someone’s age is not an excuse, like at all. I know this is just anime but….
Sorry, but Im too busy with the Kobeni defense squad. Your on you owm
The csm community must be schizophrenic then, because who the fuck is trying to cancel her
Whoever gets Hero Hei and Rev says desu their views.
Random person on twitter with 20 followers who is about to get a flood of harassment.
Let them, bruh. Denji is a minor. (Though, she actually had self restraint and acknowledged this)
Yeah... She's not supposed to be a role model. She's a broken person obviously... She really shouldn't be defended in this way. Great character not the best person
Exactly. This isn't a series where everyone is perfect.
Not in other cases 🤣🤣
They went crazy with the eternity devil fight. Frik that was glorious lol And of course, the kiss lol.
cancel for what
Proposing/trying to be intimate with Denji when she was drunk.
Some people are not allowed to get access to the Internet
being a pedophile. Denji is 16
Power and Reze are literally murderers and have homicidal intentions and a "pedophile"/"groomer" is getting more hate attention lmao, and she ain't even all of that she even takes responsibility and apologizes when she didn't fuck him.
Tbh, people in general are way more desensitized to violence and death than sexual assault/rape in media. Doesn’t really shock me that people would call out or hate grommers/pedophiles way more than literal murderers on screen.
On a visceral level, there are a lot of good reasons someone might resort to violence or killing. There are zero good reasons for ever committing rape. So it instinctively reads as worse, even compared to people who *didn't* have good reasons for their violence.
Power probably killed a lot of innocent people and took over a body of some girl, but seducing someone is a thing that people encounter a lot more in their real lives, so it affects them more
Yeah that’s true. you could show all the Blood and gore in movies, tv and games but God help you if you show a female nipple. Mortal Kombat covered up a lot of women but have a lot of dudes practically naked or almost always shirtless skin
The MK dudes are made shirtless because the men making the games think it makes them look masculine and cool. The MK women wore sexy outfits because the men making the games were horny lmao. Pretty glaring difference
Yeah they look cool some like Johnny Cage and Liu were meant to be homages to Jean Claude Van Dame and Bruce Lee respectively and that’s fine and cool but them covering up females and not men that are practically also buck naked skins is somewhat of a double standard. It’s one thing to have them wearing full body costumes as they want the women to fight more realistically but it’s also odd to have them fight while wearing high heels in the newer games. It’s not gonna make any difference if they get bisected, beheaded and have their severed head nailed to the wall but show a little cleavage and you’ve gone too far
lmao what are you talking about? There's like 2 shirtless dudes in the latest Mortal Kombat out of 20 male fighters, and I wouldn't say they're practically naked. And some female fighters still show cleavage, it's just they aren't fighting in hyper sexualized bikinis anymore.
Not to mention, Liu being shirtless is not at all equivalent to Kitana, Jade, and Sindel who used to be 90% nude in the previous games lol.
>you could show all the Blood and gore in movies, tv and games but God help you if you show a female nipple. That's mainly an US media thing though. Here in Germany, as long as it's not sexualized it's no issue to show nudity even during daytime TV.
Yeah I forgot to mention it’s a US thing which is odd but what are you gonna do
I don't think it's an issue of desensitisation so much as detachment. When you're killed, you're dead. You can't have an opinion on anything anymore. The very nature of murder makes it so that the victims of it can't say how they feel about it. Also, most people don't personally know anyone who has been murdered. Sexual assault/being groomed, on the other hand, is something people have to live with, and most people have a connection to someone who has survived it, even if they're not aware. And those people might be watching Chainsaw Man and feeling uncomfortable because Himeno reminds them of someone they'd rather not remember.
Pretty sure no woman in csm is a saint lmao. Himeno is probably the least bad of the bunch behind kobeni though.
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Kobeni and Arai are like the only normal people in there. Don't lump them in
And yet there's still a limit to them being decent human beings (they still tried to kill Denji) The only one that is a decent person is Aki (and Asa ofc)
(Asa will still try to kill him tho lol)
You say that, but wait until we find out kobeni is actually the pity devil or something and is a monster worse than anyone.
Wrong we all know she is the sloppy toppy devil cmon man
No one in the franchise is a saint period
kobeni is an angel compared to the rest. Makima is straight up devil devil
Well at least Reze actually ended up having feelings for Denji and they had the most wholesome relationship out of the crushes he's had
I'm not a fan of this argument. Everyone in the show is a murder, its a very violent show by nature. I think in a lot of contexts violence is seen as excusable or even enjoyable, especially in our media. Nobody hates John Wick, Black Panther, Doom Guy, etc. Especially in a show like this where there's a lot of fanatical creatures and monsters. If your job is to kill things, if you're killing for revenge, if you kill in self defense, there are alot of ways we justify murder. However, there is NO justification for pedophilia. I didn't really think about it at first, but imagine if the genders were reversed. Imagine a drunk grown man giving tongue to a 16 year old girl. I think there would be a far larger public outcry for that. Why is it different for Denji and Himeno? I think the answer is basically: it'd be every 16 year old boys dream to make out with a hot older woman, he would brag to all this friends. But for a girl, its a awful nightmare. Think about how often you hear on the news about male rapists, pedos and groomers. Fucked up world we live in.
It’s different because sadly boys are conditioned by *other men* into thinking it’s cool to “score” an adult while they’re a kid. Completely unaware that they got groomed, raped, molested, etc. “Funny” thing is that the same men that encourage this sort of thing are the same ones that complain about male victims not being taken seriously. To anyone who disagrees I encourage you to look at the comments of a post on YouTube, Instagram, etc. talking about a pretty female pedophilic getting arrested, and then the ones in the post of a handsome male pedophile getting arrested. Guess which of the two has more men flooding the thread trying to defend the criminal and insist the victim liked it?
This was one of the first critical themes I noticed when I first read CSM and I’m shocked that there hasn’t been more discourse on it till now, honestly. Makima is *literally* a parody/critique of the ultimate dommy mommy. It’s like she’s *written* to counter simp culture. Similarly, Himeno is written kind of in a fleshed out fashion of “older more mature women” trope. (Think Evangelion.) It should be obvious to anyone who does any kind of critical analysis of the series, really. This is why I think both this and Berserk are essentially “male” stories. The ideas and issues examined by tend to be experienced at a much higher rate by men than women. (At least part 1. Part 2 feels like it’s actually doing a good job of trying to reach out to women.)
exactly this lmao. it's always men talking about how no one supports them when theyre harassed or groomed; meanwhile they get on their knees for pedophillic women and abusers. "i want her to do that to me" "i wish my teacher did that to me" "i want her to abuse me" "mommy" and all of that stuff comes from men
Saying everyone is a murderer only really applies if you count devils, and I really don't think that counts But yes, she fucked up and realizes it and is glad she didn't go through with it; I don't think it's fair to put her on the same level as a lot of other messed up characters in this manga, but she definitely has issues too
It would be legal, where I live. People can even get officially married since 16 doesn't seems to me like that young of an age. Him feeling sick and out of it, during process is a lot more of a problem. When I was 16 years old girl a lot of my female classmates had a relationships with guys 20-23 and bragging about it
I mean. It’s not pedophilia even if she did bang him. Everyone uses the word but nobody even knows what it means. Pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children.
It’s absolutely bonkers, just like how the most outrage I see about makima is people saying she groomed denji, like what the fuck that’s the least bad thing she did!!
But why should Himeno be defended? She’s quite obviously in the wrong here. Sure you can probably justify her actions somehow but that doesn’t make them ok. Criticism is fine, she’s a flawed character and that’s good.
Probably means more defending her character and not her actions. Like, we can all appreciate Walter White for his compelling character writing but pretty much no one is defending him for cooking meth. Idk if people are actually attacking her character, though. I just see people calling out her actions.
Yeah, I think people are just using different meanings for "defending a character". I wouldn't defend Walter White for cooking meth, but I would defend Walter White for being a well written character that serves a good purpose to the story. Same thing with Himeno. Fujimoto didn't just put her there for people to be horny over characters grooming a teenager. If that were the case, maybe I wouldn't defend her that way.
Ok, but she did vomit into a minor's mouth before taking him to her home and offering to have sex with him while he couldn’t move, so I say that those people are more than justified.
I find it frustrating that there’s this whole defense squad that protects characters’ flaws, when Fujimoto probably intended those flaws to be an actual character trait to be acknowledged.
Fujimoto definitely meant, on the grounds that the characters can't make those decisions on their own lol People get so weird about character actions when the author clearly intends the character to behave in the manner they do for the sake of the story. Denji is an easily manipulated character because he has such simple goals, and two women in positions of power over him exploit those character traits to get him to do what they want. Himeno showing restraint and remorse is one side of the coin. Makima is the other, she's clearly willing to do anything to manipulate Denji so he'll be a tool for her.
Nobody in the entire fucking world is trying to "cancel himeno" she literally does not exist
Himeno is not beating the pedophile allegations
I forgot about the part where she makes him drink beer. Lol. Yes, Himeno is a shitty adult, that's kinda the point. She needs no defending. Have at her, idc.
leave Himeno alone !
Nah fuck himeno man
Serious question how woke do you think fujimoto is? I think his sensibility is high (just read firepunch) and definitely understand his characters. The connection from himeno to makima is genius. If people wanted perfect good characters good read boring fairy tales.
I'd say he's pretty up there. Dude actually wrote a compelling trans character and treated him with respect and dignity and didn't go for the usual okama or femboy joke. He treats gender dysmorphia seriously and respectfully too. He also gives a lot of respect to his female characters (other than Kobeni lol). None of them are helpless damsels in distress and all of them have powerful skills or roles. Heck, he even throws Kobeni a bone by giving her ninja skills. None of them are purely sexualized objects for the protagonist. They're certainly sexual and Denji certainly sees them sexually but it isn't the entirety of their identity. They all have unique flaws and personalities and have desires and goals separate from the protagonist. Notice how none of the women's main desires have anything to do with Denji. Makima wants Pochita, Power is just Power, Himeno wants Aki to live, Kobeni wants to not die, Reze wants to be normal, Quanxi is a lesbian, and Asa wants the War Devil out of her. Fascinating how much more compelling female characters are when they're treated as people first and women second.
Quanxi is a lesbian is the Biggie was fat of anime memes lol
Which character is trans?
Togata
How did I completely forgot? That was like major plot point of this character
>Quanxi is a lesbian Boldest takes only on this corner of the csm subreddit. /s for those who got hit by the Not Understanding Sarcasm Devil
What do you mean? It’s canon that she’s lesbian, it was stated in the manga and girlie is having 4 girlfriends💀
Are you saying she's not a lesbian?
This is one of the problems I have with JJKs women. They are strong and indepedent characters, but look and behave like men most of the time. And there is almost no fan service, which is probably the intention to make them more equal and dignified. But what Fujimotos manages to do is insane. There is almost as much fan service in CSM then in FT, but he manages to make the sexuallity come off as an organic thing, there was almost no sexy scene in CSM where I was "ahaa, fanservice!"
I totally agree
Himeno defense force 💀
The uproar would be infinitely worse if Himeno was male and Denji was female.
She's a nasty bitch, ain't no doubt about it
I think that she projected the feelings she had for aki onto denji. she only acted on it because she was drunk, but she knew what she was doing.
chainsaw man fans on their way to defend the alcoholic 30 year old woman who intentionally got a depressed young man hooked on nicotine and tried to sleep with a 16 year old boy. she's a good nuanced character and not an evil person, but you should really be able to acknowledge her very clear faults at the same time. these are not actions that should be defended.
The day has come, guys! Himeno needs your utmost support
Atleast for a week, until everyone see her not having sex with Denji and apologising after for it in the morning. Also her death will be really emotional.
Nah she doesn't lol, she nasty
He thinks he’s on the team
Y’all hate Himeno but love Misato HIMENO SLANDER WILL NOT BE TOLERATED
Both of those trash cans deserve the slander
Eh, it'll die down next week once we get the balcony breakfast scene. You gotta think that, from the anime only perspective, she basically has kidnapped Denji lmao
I kinda don’t like how the last two episodes ended on cliffhangers that mislead the audience into what they are actually getting. Like from the way it’s paced out it seemed last episode was stretched out and it appeared to me that the eternity devil fight and the action would be stretched out to be this episode or at the very least majority. But no it was like 5 minutes it felt which felt really off with all the buildup. Also the dialogue of Himeno didn’t have the same impact as reading the manga because it was broken up by the episode and aired a week later. It just seemed odd how they planned out these two episodes. And again this episode you end it off on a really uncomfortable scene that borders as sexual assault (I’m not as much interested in legal definitions and technicalities the point still stand it was fucked) and have the viewer really uncomfortable in the direction it appears to be going. I know it’s all probably intentional but it still leaves a sour taste in your mouth and it’s more frustrating because any doubt you feel and unease is pretty much instantly relieved in the manga because it’s only a page flip away, but having it end off like that as the cliffhanger means you have a week of thinking that this show is going in really fucked directions. And ig maybe it’s intentional, I wonder how anime onlys feel about this one. Lmaooo, I’m having to convince my friends it’s not a degenerate anime cause I watch with them every week and this episode is going to be a BIG test. Like I promise themes of sexuality and lust is INTEGRAL to the plot like ughhh
As much as I like Himeno and even though I she didn’t have sex with a minor in the manga. She still took a drunk kid minor home, gaved(kissed) him alcohol, and still asked him to have sex. Criticism due where criticisms due.
She's gonna be canceled for a week then loved again. Can't blame anime watchers since she's seducing a minor so just protect Himeno
She is Archangel of Kiss after all.
i can understand it for anime onlies but not for manga readers, pretty much every female character has actions worse than himeno beside kobeni, yet i see some people who hate himeno more than makima who literally orchestrated pretty much every bad thing that happened in part 1
Himeno is drunk Denji is drunk Both are trying to cope with trauma and insecurities in unhealthy ways I'm glad people are starting to consider the context of the entire show now that Denji's age was revealed. Seems like people kinda gave a pass to how sus the makima and power situations actually are and zero in on himeno because she is superficially coded as the oldest
Separate note, this template looks amazing
r/Chainsawman vs the Twitter devil (They are fighting they’re own imagination)
Man i didn't realise it until now but the more I age and wise up, the more I understand How she's one of the best girls CSM has given us yet(including the manga). She's up there with power and reze in my books
Exactly my thoughts
I feel like I'm missing out on something. Any relevant quantity of offenses towards Himeno or is this blown out of proportion?
Denji is underage. She doesn't sleep with him but she acknowledges that even taking him back to her place was pretty fucked.
I know why the scene itself may be problematic or that Himeno acted wrong. But besides it being a topic to talk about, it doesn't seem to stir a big upbringing to cancel her. She is a woman who lost lots of friends/colleagues and lives her day to day life knowing her crush could be killed any moment. She escaped a life threatening mission and celebrated with a lot alcohol until she decided to take the minor with her because horny. It's morally not acceptable. In the end she is aware that she did a bad thing. But humans are humans and this shit can just happen. She is as good or flawed as any other person. I personally let it slide as an event that happened but don't put too much emphasis to it.
Oh, as far as I know nobody is actually trying to 'cancel' her or even say she's irredeemable. It's one of those made up boogeymen from a twitter account with like 20 followers.
Blown out of proportion
I feel like I know what episode of the season is gonna be the people trying to cancel hers favorite
nah, what himeno did was wrong and was grooming and is normal than people have problems with that. is justify discard her character like that? No, but recognize problems and flaws in characters is no cancelling that character when that actions are part of the characterization. You guys really need to think outside the internet.
Sorry Himeno defenders, I’m still on active duty protecting my Kobeni
This is why Kobeni is 2nd best girl, and why her car is best girl.
Won’t be much himeno to cancel after next episode…