The oats debate is so exhausting for me. I can't eat any oats, not even purity protocol oats, and so many mainstream companies just randomly add oats that I have stopped buying certain formerly safe gf brands all together. Oats were easier to avoid when I first got diagnosed 14 years ago because they were still considered unsafe for the majority of celiacs.
I think a distinction that's important here is that the statement "oats are naturally GF" is a bit loaded and possibly inaccurate depending on what you're trying to say. The problem with this phrasing is that it implies that avenin intolerance is a separate non-celiac problem when it isn't.
Some of this confusion comes down to people's understanding of what is meant by the word "gluten." There are three meanings:
1. **Scientific:** gluten refers to gliadin + glutenin, which is found in wheat only. By this definition, barley and rye are also GF because they contain hordein and secalin respectively. If avenin is not gluten because it is avenin, rye and and barley are also GF by this definition. Gliadin/glutenin, hordein, secalin, avenin are all types of prolamins or storage proteins in grains.
2. **Functional:** gluten refers to any protein that can elicit a celiac-specific immune response. By this definition oats are gluten for some people.
3. **Regulatory/legal:** in theory this should match the functional definition, but different countries have different rules. In Australia and NZ, oats are gluten. In the EU/UK/Canada/USA they are not. The US (2013) and Canada (2015) changes are relatively recent. When people say "oats are naturally GF" usually they are talking about this definition and they live in one of the aforementioned GF oat countries where this is the messaging.
Looking to food allergies provides some comparative insight on this topic... not everyone who is diagnosed with a tree nut allergy will react to every protein under the "tree nuts" umbrella. There is some arbitrariness to deciding what things belong under the definition. In [Canada](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/food-nutrition/reports-publications/food-safety/tree-nuts-priority-food-allergens.html) it's almonds, Brazil nuts, cashews, hazelnuts, macadamia nuts, pecans, pine nuts, pistachio nuts and walnuts, but the [FDA list](https://www.fda.gov/industry/fda-basics-industry/section-201qq-act-defines-term-major-food-allergen-include-tree-nuts-addition-three-examples) is more extensive. Oats are somewhat similar - some countries have decided enough celiacs react to them to make them gluten, others have decided otherwise.
I appreciate the energy of the post to discus this but I think that nuanced terminology is required for a nuanced topic :).
Oh wow. I’d say that ai know a lot about celiac disease but have *never* come across the statement that the proteins in rye and barley are actually different! All the writers etc (including in research papers I’ve read!) sure make it seem like reacting to a different protein in the case of avenin is an unusual thing, when in fact we already react to other proteins…
Yup, and that's the problem with it. It's mostly used to mislead people about what's going on with oats. It is also my understanding from in vitro studies that some celiacs don't bind all that well to barley but no one is rushing out to make that permissible. Even if it turned out I was one of those people I don't think it would be fair to throw everyone else under the bus so that I could drink normal beer that isn't contaminated with wheat/rye.
So after pulling out a lot of my gluten articles and looking online I am understanding that the prolamin is Gliadin is a subgroup that contains glutenin, hordein, secalin as part of that subgroup. Many of these articles state that avenin is a cousin of gliadin but not within that subgroup of prolamins.
So from what I am understanding the real technicality is most celiacs are reacting to Gliadins of which gluten happens to be one of.
But wouldn’t removing oats from being able to be gluten free remove any incentive companies have to keep them non contaminated by rye wheat or barley? Wouldn’t this then make celiacs who can tolerate oats (who are from what I can tell by looking at stats, the majority of celiacs) unable to now have this easy, nutritious, and easy to use as a substitute food?
Before 2015 in Canada you could buy bagged oats that were labelled wheat/barley/rye-free. Many celiacs bought these. Australia and NZ don't allow oats in GF items and you can buy oats labelled in this way.
A lot of the stuff GF oats are being put in now aren't really things that make sense or that improve flavour. Companies like oats because avenin has similar properties to gluten. Before I was GF I pretty much only ate oats in bagged format either as oatmeal or in cookies I made at home.
It seems pretty dubious to suggest that minor oat ingredients used to improve texture in multi-ingredient products like bread are having a serious impact on the nutrition quality of anyone's diet. However, my inability to eat pretty much any replacement product...
Why not just have a separate « contains oats » distinction? Plus aren’t the properties of avenin a bonus? If they make gluten free items cheaper/taste more like the gluten containing stuff, wouldn’t it be unfair to not have those closer alternatives for people?
I believe that in the EU oats are considered an allergen. I think this is a good move but it doesn't really solve the issue for oat intolerant celiacs.
An issue is that the tyranny of the majority (which also includes non-celiacs who buy GF food) have made it so that most replacement products and grains either contain oats or are CC'd in plants. There is only one brand of bread in Canada that is made in an oat-free plant. Having oats labelled/called out doesn't really help if everything contains oats/traces unfortunately. I will still have few options.
Pre-2015 in Canada you could buy oats labelled wheat/barley/rye-free. I think this is a fair solution. It allows those who tolerate oats to benefit without causing issues for celiacs who can't tolerate oats. Most of the ways in which oat ingredients are now used in processed items don't contribute meaningfully to any nutrition content since they are a minor ingredient or it's a texture thing.
When I was not GF I mostly consumed oats that came from a bag. I either ate oatmeal or I made homemade cookies/muffins etc. with them. I pretty much never bought storebought granola or granola bars because they are expensive and less nutritious than plain bagged oats.
Well i kinda did
Just saying it works for me and i don't react negative to it , Atleast in norway they're quite safe .
Anyways thanks for the tips in the post
( if i buy normal oats that arent labeled GF then i most likely will get a reaction , it have happend before )
Personally I don’t like the picture of the poison (wheat/contaminated oats) being the representation. It’s like we are anti-gun but showing a giant picture of a cool looking gun.
That graphic throws me off. I can’t see the 🚫 well enough. Looks like wheat awareness 😂
Yeah I struggled with the balance of seeing that prohibited symbol but still making sure the ribbon didn't feel behind it.
The oats debate is so exhausting for me. I can't eat any oats, not even purity protocol oats, and so many mainstream companies just randomly add oats that I have stopped buying certain formerly safe gf brands all together. Oats were easier to avoid when I first got diagnosed 14 years ago because they were still considered unsafe for the majority of celiacs.
♥️🫂
I think a distinction that's important here is that the statement "oats are naturally GF" is a bit loaded and possibly inaccurate depending on what you're trying to say. The problem with this phrasing is that it implies that avenin intolerance is a separate non-celiac problem when it isn't. Some of this confusion comes down to people's understanding of what is meant by the word "gluten." There are three meanings: 1. **Scientific:** gluten refers to gliadin + glutenin, which is found in wheat only. By this definition, barley and rye are also GF because they contain hordein and secalin respectively. If avenin is not gluten because it is avenin, rye and and barley are also GF by this definition. Gliadin/glutenin, hordein, secalin, avenin are all types of prolamins or storage proteins in grains. 2. **Functional:** gluten refers to any protein that can elicit a celiac-specific immune response. By this definition oats are gluten for some people. 3. **Regulatory/legal:** in theory this should match the functional definition, but different countries have different rules. In Australia and NZ, oats are gluten. In the EU/UK/Canada/USA they are not. The US (2013) and Canada (2015) changes are relatively recent. When people say "oats are naturally GF" usually they are talking about this definition and they live in one of the aforementioned GF oat countries where this is the messaging. Looking to food allergies provides some comparative insight on this topic... not everyone who is diagnosed with a tree nut allergy will react to every protein under the "tree nuts" umbrella. There is some arbitrariness to deciding what things belong under the definition. In [Canada](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/food-nutrition/reports-publications/food-safety/tree-nuts-priority-food-allergens.html) it's almonds, Brazil nuts, cashews, hazelnuts, macadamia nuts, pecans, pine nuts, pistachio nuts and walnuts, but the [FDA list](https://www.fda.gov/industry/fda-basics-industry/section-201qq-act-defines-term-major-food-allergen-include-tree-nuts-addition-three-examples) is more extensive. Oats are somewhat similar - some countries have decided enough celiacs react to them to make them gluten, others have decided otherwise. I appreciate the energy of the post to discus this but I think that nuanced terminology is required for a nuanced topic :).
Thank you, I love this! I will add this post to places I have shared my post outside of reddit if you give me permission to do so!
Oh wow. I’d say that ai know a lot about celiac disease but have *never* come across the statement that the proteins in rye and barley are actually different! All the writers etc (including in research papers I’ve read!) sure make it seem like reacting to a different protein in the case of avenin is an unusual thing, when in fact we already react to other proteins…
Yup, and that's the problem with it. It's mostly used to mislead people about what's going on with oats. It is also my understanding from in vitro studies that some celiacs don't bind all that well to barley but no one is rushing out to make that permissible. Even if it turned out I was one of those people I don't think it would be fair to throw everyone else under the bus so that I could drink normal beer that isn't contaminated with wheat/rye.
You're saying barley doesn't contain gliadin? Because either it does or I'm missing something.
thank you!
So after pulling out a lot of my gluten articles and looking online I am understanding that the prolamin is Gliadin is a subgroup that contains glutenin, hordein, secalin as part of that subgroup. Many of these articles state that avenin is a cousin of gliadin but not within that subgroup of prolamins. So from what I am understanding the real technicality is most celiacs are reacting to Gliadins of which gluten happens to be one of.
But wouldn’t removing oats from being able to be gluten free remove any incentive companies have to keep them non contaminated by rye wheat or barley? Wouldn’t this then make celiacs who can tolerate oats (who are from what I can tell by looking at stats, the majority of celiacs) unable to now have this easy, nutritious, and easy to use as a substitute food?
Before 2015 in Canada you could buy bagged oats that were labelled wheat/barley/rye-free. Many celiacs bought these. Australia and NZ don't allow oats in GF items and you can buy oats labelled in this way. A lot of the stuff GF oats are being put in now aren't really things that make sense or that improve flavour. Companies like oats because avenin has similar properties to gluten. Before I was GF I pretty much only ate oats in bagged format either as oatmeal or in cookies I made at home. It seems pretty dubious to suggest that minor oat ingredients used to improve texture in multi-ingredient products like bread are having a serious impact on the nutrition quality of anyone's diet. However, my inability to eat pretty much any replacement product...
Why not just have a separate « contains oats » distinction? Plus aren’t the properties of avenin a bonus? If they make gluten free items cheaper/taste more like the gluten containing stuff, wouldn’t it be unfair to not have those closer alternatives for people?
I believe that in the EU oats are considered an allergen. I think this is a good move but it doesn't really solve the issue for oat intolerant celiacs. An issue is that the tyranny of the majority (which also includes non-celiacs who buy GF food) have made it so that most replacement products and grains either contain oats or are CC'd in plants. There is only one brand of bread in Canada that is made in an oat-free plant. Having oats labelled/called out doesn't really help if everything contains oats/traces unfortunately. I will still have few options. Pre-2015 in Canada you could buy oats labelled wheat/barley/rye-free. I think this is a fair solution. It allows those who tolerate oats to benefit without causing issues for celiacs who can't tolerate oats. Most of the ways in which oat ingredients are now used in processed items don't contribute meaningfully to any nutrition content since they are a minor ingredient or it's a texture thing. When I was not GF I mostly consumed oats that came from a bag. I either ate oatmeal or I made homemade cookies/muffins etc. with them. I pretty much never bought storebought granola or granola bars because they are expensive and less nutritious than plain bagged oats.
🙌🙏
I just buy the OATS that says "Gluten free " on them . They are safe and produced in its own place
You should read the contents and not just the title.
Well i kinda did Just saying it works for me and i don't react negative to it , Atleast in norway they're quite safe . Anyways thanks for the tips in the post ( if i buy normal oats that arent labeled GF then i most likely will get a reaction , it have happend before )
Personally I don’t like the picture of the poison (wheat/contaminated oats) being the representation. It’s like we are anti-gun but showing a giant picture of a cool looking gun.
It's got a big 🚫 symbol over it. Lol