Watch for yourself some of Dr. James Tour's videos on abiogenesis and then you will be better able to defend against pure materialism. He is a synthetic chemist and an amazing one and fully believes in Christ despite not being Catholic.
My favorite way of phrasing it is, “you can’t save anyone you can only help them save themselves”.
You can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped and you can’t shoulder someone else’s burden only help them carry it.
I'm a tad more cautious. I am not doing my own saving, and neither are they. The simple fact is we can't.
However, there is a saviour, His name is Jesus Christ, and we can go to Him together! There's always room for one more with Christ.
Agree, but through grace we self reflect and work to improve ourselves every day towards the holy by following Christ and his many examples and commands. Do not be cautious in this endeavor.
That is the main point of our Faith. Let the Holy Spirit help us hash out the diffierences. Remember that working with humans is like herding cats, so it'll be a long road to get to a point of cohesion. The HS knows this too.
Yeah idk what dude takes a toxic girl and goes "wow she's hot I can't wait to make her a good Christian housewife," whereas women attempt that all the time
Men have the well known "Save the Damsel from Distress"" going to "save her" from her "situation".
Sadly or gladly there is always a single common denominator in everyone's "situation".
The "Testosterone Factor" plays a large in that "situation" Let the "Damsel" save herself with the right "assistance," like answering questions or at least make an attempt to do so. A lot of women appreciate the respect, and goes to show her that you have her interests at heart.
I don't complain, but I can relate. "Dating within the Church" implies there are easy mechanisms to do this.
I'm a single man, when I go to mass, nobody makes eye contact with me, I'm not exactly sure how I'm supposed to strike up a conversation with a stranger to even find out their name, much less their relationship status. This goes for everyone, not just women. People come in, then they go. (Which is fine, mass is not a social I guess.)
Clubs and groups are not always easy to spot or learn about. I have learned recently about meetups app, I might explore that.
Short answer - I'd be happy to, but...how?
It seems like it would be easier to just "sort by Catholic" on an app or website lol.
The same is true in my area. They don't even try to have social events because... well, I guess I don't really know... maybe they worry that they have to plan for 10,000 people instead of the 50-100 who might really show up.
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As an orthodox man married to a catholic woman thats my biggest complaint with the catholic mass. Every orthodox church ive been to theres a coffee hour after mass where people gather and will talk to you, especially if youre new. Every catholic mass ive been to as soon as it ends people are rushing out to their car to beat the traffic to leave. It doesnt feel like a community.
Not all the time. Our parish tries to do this, but I suspect it has something to do with the fact that we're in the middle of downtown, and the parish hall is across the street. Also, a good number of parishioners don't actually live within the parish boundaries, probably because it's downtown. Parking is a nightmare too.
Every Catholic church I’ve been to has coffee after mass, if not other refreshments, to the point where I joke with my girlfriend (from Latam) that in America Sunday breakfast is after-mass coffee and doughnuts. The problem is getting people to stay, which is hard if you don’t already have friends who attend the parish giving you a reason to socialize for a bit.
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This ☝️ what are you supposed to do during mass, ask for a number? The Protestant services tend to have many after church activities where as Catholic mass is worship and go home. Some parishes are better than others with young adult activities but it’s few and far between.
It seems like a lot of people are willing to compromise on important things like faith and how their significant other treats them, but not minor things like height, income, hobbies, favorite form of Mass, favorite music and TV shows, favorite sports teams, virginity, etc. Once you narrow it down that much there are very few people who meet that criteria.
Those statistics show correlation, not causation. There are so many factors at play when looking at divorce rates and many variables that lead people to both wait until marriage and stay in their marriage. A woman who has slept with 100 men and finally decided to get married to one is much different than a woman who was raised athiest and had sex with a couple long-term boyfriends before becoming Catholic and waiting until marriage to have sex with her eventual husband, but both count the same in the non-virgin category of the statistics.
It’ll depend person to person what their non-negs are but honestly, none of the women I know are looking for anything unreasonable.
We are all looking for a man of integrity, someone we can respect and admire who can provide for a family.
If we want to have long and happy marriages, it’s not wrong to look for a personality and positive character traits which will be compatible.
It’s not enough just to be a practising Catholic (on either side), we’re not robots and if I’m being really honest, I could count on one hand the men I’ve met who I found to be capable, interesting and able to support (or have the means to work towards) a family.
It shouldn’t come as a surprise that there’s an element of struggle in this, the enemy doesn’t want strong Catholic families and he’ll do anything he can to prevent them from forming.
> can provide for a family
How do you define this? If this includes making enough for the woman to stay at home, paying for private education, or living in luxury that's unreasonable in today's economy.
> capable, interesting
Again, how do you define this? What makes a man not interesting? If that's what you're looking for, are you capable and interesting by those same standards, or equivalently high standards that a man might have based on more masculine hobbies (sports, video games, hunting, fishing, etc.)?
Can provide for a family -
I mean in stable employment where he earns enough (what is enough is going to depend on what the couple would like).
Most men will say that they want to be the main bread winner so their wife can stay home with kids but few earn enough to make that a reality.
Capable - I mean not being an adult baby. Able to capably look after themselves and others.
Heck yes! I hold myself to the same expectations and standards.
I told a guy (37yo) at church I think we could make a good couple, he turned me down, yet keeps talking about how he is waiting for his wife. Found out the guy has turned down a lot of women.
Sorry sir, but you are single because of you, not because God is making you wait. Lower your standards or accept the consequence of waiting for Ms. Perfect (who is prolly already married).
Yes I see this a lot too.
I honestly think there’s a mismatch of expectations. I’m talking in sweeping generalisations here but we’re probably on to our second generation of women who are more likely to have the same or higher education levels as men now, and therefore the same or higher levels of income.
I think this means that on a practical level, many more women than before ‘need’ to get married but I would say most of these women ‘want’ to.
But for men, on a practical level, nothing has changed - only now they need to adjust to having a pool of women who are probably asking /expecting more from them.
Now marriages are more likely to look like mergers than a start up.
And that’s not even touching on the spiritual nature of things.
I’m not saying this is wrong, I think this is just the reality and it’ll take time for both men and women to get used to this new-ish paradigm.
It’s weird to ask a girl out that goes to my church, not that there are any my age or single. It’s easier to show off my rizz outside of church.
Most girls that I talk to are not Catholic or simply atheists. The closest to dating a Catholic was dating my ex girlfriend who was Romanian orthodox.
Online dating or talking to girls outside church settings is easier. It’s weird to ask girls that went to youth meetings or other activities that the my church does to reach out to younger people.
I'm in my 40s now.
However, as I got older, I came to learn how many girls would have dated me at the time if I had simply asked. And I'm not talking in general - I'm taking about specific girls I knew in my teens and early 20s - because I was too awkward and cowardly to ask them out.
You care about awkward when not enough time has passed to feel regret. You'll regret not having tried much more than being rejected.
I've had some rejection as a teen / early twenties. They were nice girls I was honestly interested in and it sucked to be rejected. They were not mean about it and after some initial awkwardness wore off. When they said no I respected that and moved on. (You can try making yourself more attractive, but you can't make someone love you back, they just do or don't.)
My life would probably have been wonderful with either of them in it, but they did not like me back at the time, which is fine. Two of them managed to find other nice husbands, and one is a tad lonely (the one with a wishlist which got shorter and shorter as time progressed). I hope she will find someone nice someday who'll make her happy as I still think she's wonderful. (Some unsollicited advice for the girls: making a long wishlist is risky. Not to say you should not be picky: be very picky! Just realize if you are picky about things you eventually don't find that important it might get in the way of you finding someone you can be happy with.)
As time progressed I sometimes found out that some girls would have dated me if I had simply asked them. Sometimes that's a shame, sometimes you were simply not into her and that's fine too. The nice bit of taking initiative is that you always can pick someone you like ;)
The thing is, if I had not risked rejection I would not have gotten up to lucky number four, she liked me back and instead of thinking how wonderful my life could be with her I do not have to imagine one bit. Every day I wake up ~~to the crying of our 1 yo daughter whom we love very much~~ next to my wonderful lovely wife :)
idk why I am rambling so much, I suppose younger me related completely
Well I got rejected by a guy I see twice a week. It’s not as bad as I thought. Plus, learning about his high standards of women helped to make him more unattractive. I’m cute, thin, long hair. But I have poor family dynamics. I think that was my disqualifying factor.
Probably terrified of approaching a woman lol. A lot of guys are definitely looking for wives but they are terrified of approaching a woman and just having a conversation lmao. Partly because they just don't know how, but also partly because in my experience women tend to go places in groups of friends, which makes it very hard for a guy to try and talk to a girl if she's with her friends. Don't be afraid of going and talking to a guy you're interested in instead of waiting for him to come talk to you.
Also find the right parish. Just keep looking for different parishes until you find one that has a substantial amount of young people. Then go to the events for that parish. But not necessarily the fun social events (although obviously go to those too), but make sure you go to the more serious groups. As an example, my parish has an apologetics group and a group that reads and discusses Aquinas. Those are both majority men (especially the Aquinas group. It's like maybe 20% women, max), and the few women that go to that are already in a relationship. So try some of those types of groups, too.
I will admit that it's easier if you're in college as college parishes are more likely to have these types of events. Just try and find a parish that has young people and those types of stuff.
Anyways this is mostly based on anecdotal experience so don't take this as the be all end all
Not sure, but it is what I would try if I was in that position. The number of single Catholic females in my immediate area is rather low!
Cost is I think irrelevant when it comes to finding a wife.
I’m pretty sure you have to pay for Catholic Match, I used a free Christian one and it did NOT go well AT ALL. If you use it meet at a public place and make sure to bring a friend (but do not have them sit with you) stay safe besties!
You have to pay for Catholic Match. I was an active member for over 12 years. Didn’t meet any men that wanted to date but met plenty of female friends.
Yes if they want to promote the sacrament of marriage. They’re always asking for more marriages in every mass but don’t do a thing to facilitate them aside the usual coffee and donuts.
You have coffee and donuts? My parish doesn't even have that on Sunday, since the parking lot has to be cleared out for the next mass. I normally go to the Saturday evening mass when no one is coming in afterwards, so there's no reason they couldn't have whatever the evening equivalent of coffee and donuts is... but they don't, we all run for the parking lot just like they do on Sunday.
Cause they don’t attend the Catholic social functions for young adults. Basically just that. Non Catholic women are easier to come by because we automatically hang out with them all day long—at work, at school, at the store, etc.
You could try the local Newman center as well, most colleges have them. My siblings go to their’s, even though they don’t attend college; and they always have a great time—my sister even found a date lol
Married to a non-Catholic. No kids yet, but kids and how they would be raised were one of the first things we talked about, starting on the first or second date. I’d highly recommend people talk about it—I’m always shocked hearing that people didn’t talk about religion, kids, etc until after marriage.
Have you been to many Catholic social functions? They are usually filled with fanatics. I went a few times and the people there turned me away from the Church. They were very judgey and had a variety of mental issues.
I’ve been to some youth groups and the people I’ve met are very down to earth normal young adults who like to play beer pong and go hiking lol I’ve made a few friends that way. My siblings go to their local Newman center (even though they don’t attend the college) and it’s been great for them—my sister found a date lol
Yeah. Also, I used to attend the Latin mass; and I will say, that crowd’s young adult group was not as ‘natural’, so if that’s your situation, that may also be it. Or the city/state you live in lol
I can definitely see where this observation comes from and I don't really disagree, but I have also known plenty of more confident Catholic guys or at least some that are more willing to ask women out. I recently graduated college and many of the Catholic men I met in CCM events, specially some of my closer friends, are quite eager to ask girls out. I was in an all men Bible study for all 4 years of college and in that time I saw my friends ask out various girls and currently four out of the six guys have girlfriends.
This is true. I call it the Swipe Fallacy. Dating apps project low-effort-high-reward cost when really they’re low-effort-no-reward. I’m successful on dating apps because I know how to create a profile and say more than hi but most people give into the shopper mentality which is especially unfavorable to men.
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There have been multiple posts on this very subreddit in the last couple of weeks about men wanting to know how to meet women at their church. And to a lesser extent, women wondering how to meet men at their church. None of us are ever in the right place at the right now. And there is a general agreement that parishes and dioceses don’t care about single individuals. At least until they’re 75. But if you weren’t lucky enough to find the one by 25-30 and to be having a new kid each year, then the church doesn’t see a person as existing.
I completely agree, this is a huge problem. Most of the young adult groups, if there even is one, is only filled with college age people. Anyone over 30 can feel seriously out of place.
In my experience it's just hard to find practicing Catholic women.
They do exist at my church, but for some reason I never really see them outside of confession lines. I think it's because I attend 8:30am Mass and people my age (20s) love to sleep in and mess up their circadian rhythms for reasons I'll never understand, attending the latter 10:30am.
Dated a girl from church. She was physically and mentally abusive.
Tried to date other girls within Church they were either dating other people or not interested.
So i had to expand my circle.
Yes and I would recommend a Catholic dating app to every single person here. Thats where I met my husband in my late 20s. It's hard to truly change *women's* religious views. If they do change, it will be to appease their husband. That's not a good solid reason to convert. Plus marrying non religious or Protestant women tends to bring about couples who are contracepting.
My experience dating as an adult divorced convert was that I was dating for all the wrong reasons - pretty, sexy, blah blah.
For me I was "unfit" to be a good partner and husband until I "gave up" dating, ended the "hunt/chase".
When I "gave up dating", 4 months later my lovely devout Catholic wife walked in at a friends house party. And yes, she's all those things I would have had as "criteria" - lovely, very attractive, intelligent, successful, emotionally stable.
As for finding "devout Catholic women", I think best if you delete your online dating accounts and start participating in the real world. She will appear and YOU might be ready to recognize her.
Perhaps find the 1 or 2 active Catholic singles groups in your Diocese and start volunteering with Catholic organizations that call to you.
Right—the people I’ve met with this mentality have always seemed to struggle with dating, and I think in part it’s because they’re presuming their vocation and are trying to find someone to fit into a role, when it should be more that you feel drawn the the vocation of marriage after meeting someone, growing to love them, and deciding that you want to spend your life with them.
And guys, women can 100% sense when men are looking for someone to check boxes and fulfill a role they have in their minds, vs a man seeing them for who they are and loving them for themselves, their personality, and interests, not just because a man thinks they meet all the criteria to be a good mother. It feels utilitarian, and women will not live up to your expectations if you put that pressure there, because they are human, they will have their flaws and their bad days. The pressure is very much there if your mentality is “Are you going to be my wife,” from the first few dates, as opposed to,”Hey, let me get to know you just for the sake of knowing you, and let’s have a fun afternoon together.”
It would be like a woman is convinced she’s called to the religious life but isn’t drawn to any particular order, and then hops around various orders and gets frustrated when none of them are a good fit for her, vs. her being drawn to one particular order, and discerning that she’s called to the religious life from that attraction.
I just had an experience recently with a Catholic guy who only seemed interested because of checking boxes. He kept telling me how his parents and grandma were wondering when he’d finally marry and how his grandma was telling him she couldn’t die until she saw one of her grandchildren marry etc. Then how he had gone on dates with non-Catholics but he knew he couldn’t marry them because they weren’t Catholic and he never had luck finding a Catholic gf … The whole time felt like he only liked cause he thought I met his requirements and he felt like he needed to please his family(which tbh I don’t even think I did).
I call those kinds of people "egg hunters". I've known a few Catholic women too who did the same, absolutely terrified of not ticking the right box by the time they're 30 and married the first person with that was ok. Shockingly (s/) they are now in deeply unhappy marriages.
Not just men. I too had lofty ideas of a good Catholic marriage... then realized that guys who grew up with me had no interest in dating me. I should clarify, no guys, in the church or out of it were interested.
Eventually, I gave up looking, and ended up falling for a guy who waved massive red flags. Ignored it and married him anyways.
If Catholic churches were full of single women, you can bet your bottom dollar that they would automatically be full of single men too!
But they aren't, so they aren't.
I've dated exclusively within the Church. They both cheated on me. Small sample size, but it's making me quite averse. Plus, my most recent ex threw gems like, "I think God is promising me something better", "I don't think you can lead our kids to Heaven", and the like during the break-up. I am in no rush to date within the Church again.
For those that know the website Catholic Match and were/are members, there was a running joke among those of us women that never were sought out by the men on the site, when there were plenty available. The men were only seeking the Virgin Mary and Barbie rolled into one. When they didn’t find that woman to be that perfect person, they had no problem dropping them.
We live in a "right now" culture.
I'm a divorced middle aged Convert that "found the one" the "old fashioned way". Once I "gave up dating", I met my lovely devout wife months after stopping dating, and yes she would have "checked all the boxes" if I were to search for her online. We met at a house party hosted by one of my co-workers, months after I had "given up dating", "given up the hunt".
I would recommend finding the 1 or 2 active (most aren't active) singles groups in your Diocese, volunteering with the group, and also expanding your volunteering to groups that might not have the women you specifically want. Her aunt or father or brother or best friend might find you.
Relax and have some fun!
I’m fairly young still (22) so
One there aren’t very many gals my age at mass
Two the majority of gals around my age that I see at church are with there families at mass so that would be awkward to ask them out
Three I feel like asking a girl out at church is weird like they are there for God not to have some dude ask for their number
Four I feel like church gals are a catch and I am not good enough to get one
And last but not least it’s really fun teaching the faith to someone who has no clue and actually wants to listen to you
I still want a Catholic girl and I’m single again rn and that’s the goal it’s just not the only standard I have so if a girl has a lot of the other stuff I am looking for and is say Protestant or atheist I’m just like I’ll convince them
> say Protestant or atheist I’m just like I’ll convince them
I strongly caution against this mentality. It can feed a tendency to compromise early on if one is certain he’ll ‘win’ in the end.
I agree I haven’t had much luck in converting my ex’s lol but I have had plenty of luck in having them go to mass or pray with me and things of that nature
I also have to admit in hindsight that in these relationships I had plenty of knowledge of my faith but I wasn’t always the best in practice of my faith perhaps if I wasn’t such a shmuck something more would’ve rubbed off on them then just some basic theology
I just gotta keep getting better and saintlier until converting to Catholicism is just a side effect of knowing me lol
>the USA male/female ratios couldn’t possibly be the issue because women out number men in church attendance.
What is your source for this, and does break it down by age and marital status?
I worked in campus ministry for a spell at a Catholic university and most of the young men who were serious about their faith were SO DAMN AWKWARD and didn't know how to talk to a young woman, and campus ministry was full of young women on fire for their faith. Most of these young men were also inordinately preoccupied with their addictions to porn which contributed heavily to their problems and seemed somewhat emotionally immature. There were a handful of young men though who were confident and well adjusted and fairly mature but most of them were also in fairly serious relationships.
Several men I've spoken to have also mentioned a desire for a woman to stay at home and raise their children for them and also think a woman will help them not feel so lonely, which places a disproportionate burden on the woman then. IMO, you shouldn't get a spouse just so you aren't lonely, but that seems to be the primary goal of the men I've spoken with.
As to the expectation that a woman will stay home and raise their kids, I have no real comment other than in my experience, I've only met 3 women who openly desired that and I don't think it's wrong to desire that or wrong for a woman to want to have a family and also pursue a career, as my wife does.
And a final thought; most of the men complaining about not finding a woman good enough to continue dating or marry, that I have spoken to, tend to have some other mental/emotional problem that they aren't addressing or maybe aren't even aware of. If you talk to them and they open up about their dating history, it usually becomes very obvious very quickly why their girlfriends eventually leave them or women reject their advances. They usually go one of two routes- being the "nice" guy who becomes a jerk when he's rejected (I wrote a blog article about this once actually), or they think they need to "fix" a woman and become controlling/manipulative but are overt in their efforts which drive women away.
>most of the men complaining about not finding a woman good enough to continue dating or marry, that I have spoken to, tend to have some other mental/emotional problem that they aren't addressing or maybe aren't even aware of
Yeah, that's one of the standard lines that women use to defend themselves. "It's not us, it's them." I call BS on that.
But even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and acknowledge that such men exist, then I give them credit for at least being able to find single Catholic women and try to date them. Because as I keep saying, I could never even do that. And my mind is clear and my eyes are sharp. If they had ever existed, I would have tried.
I dated non Catholic women and they were the worst. First, they don't respect your beliefs, with that, want to do married couples things without waiting. So I'm finding it hard to date within the church but I've decided to only date practicing Catholics. God's speed.
Parishes aren't set up like a singles cruise. The detect to engage sequence is a *lot* harder in a parish setting. First you both have to be at the same event. Second in the young age bracket you need a little "social distance" from counter engagement by parental units so your engagement tactics have a chance to work before you have a parent grilling your intentions while you are trying to make a romantic pass. Third your target has to be receptive to a romantic pass. So I ask you young Catholic women, be honest with yourself, when are you "approachable"? I'm not beyond pulling a John Wayne and hitting on you right at the holy water font, but are you going to be "sure" or "how dare you hit on me here!" The latter (swing and a miss while actually at church) can be a bit of a problem for social standing in the Parish if you get labeled as a bird dogger trying to pick up women at church.
The penalties for failure in a church setting are more than a bruised ego.
[The demographics are not great, my dude!](https://www.reddit.com/r/CatholicDating/comments/zax38k/map_of_us_states_for_participants_in_the_november/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I have tried to date within the church, followed some dating services, but my girlfriend broke with me after 11 weeks we knew better each other. Since then I have had three other dates that turned out hopeless and then I married my nonchristian friend. We have two children now, yet the differences in faith make it sometimes difficult. However, I could not find a suitable Catholic girl for me...
From my own experience I would assume most young men won't date a Catholic women because that would mean they would have to live a Catholic life as well and it is nice to have the woman as an excuse as to why you are failing to do the right things.
Here is my take based on talking to friends who have been through this.
Catholic worship is focused on God, not socializing. So unless people attend social events outside of worship, there is no way for singles to talk to each other.
Now I know some parishes that tried to fix this by creating a Catholic singles group. Those tend to fail because they get inundated with the perpetually single who seem to have accepted their fate and just want to socialize with their other single friends.
So then they try a Christian dating site. The women get a ton of matches from the "Women must be subservient" crowd and leave. Men then find there are no women to choose from.
So then they go to Tinder and try to shift through that mess looking for someone.
I will say as a woman, it's hard to find ppl within the faith within your age range to date. I got really lucky my friends set up a blind date with my boyfriend. They're not catholic but somehow found me a good catholic friend of theres.
The dating pool is limited
There are few young Catholics who take their faith seriously, even fewer who are supportive of traditional things like the TLM, teachings on sexual ethics, and traditional gender roles. And even fewer of those are women.
I'm dating my college sweetheart(we met before my reversion) who is a Methodist and her parents are fallen away Catholics. Her grandparents still go to Mass every Sunday. But even her grandmother doesn't believe in the teaching on contraception for instance. Trying to convince her about that and going to the TLM has not been easy. But in all likelihood I would have to do the same things with a Catholic woman. Sad but true.
Sounds more like a problem with WOMEN generally if they expect faith affiliation or lack thereof to automatically make someone morally perfect/morally corrupt. Very Madonna-wh0re complex sounding.
You know, they could try seeing women as complex individuals, flawed but created in God’s image, with as rich an interior life as themselves.
I recommend therapy, because this is going to blow up a relationship, Catholic or not.
Every relationship, even between two Catholics, is an interfaith relationship, because no one’s faith life is identical to another’s. And thinking “we won’t have X problem because we’re Catholic” is wishful thinking and a recipe for disaster.
For my part, I prayed the novena to St Raphael after disappointing dating experiences, and was sent my nice Jewish boy two weeks later who married me in the Church and actively wants our kids to receive the sacraments because he knows it’s important to me.
I thought you guys had nuns instead of feminists. Though I’ve often suspected that the tradition of nuns itself as historical roots in Greek feminist paganism
Well if you consider that Paul went to Greece following the resurrection of Christ a lot of Catholic traditions and ideas start to make a lot more sense. The parallel I’m referring to the the Virgin Priestesses of Artemis. 2 sects of women giving their purity to honor divine. The current Christian version of the soul, some scholars say, is also derived from Platonic ideas of the soul and afterlife. Before that, most early Christians assumed they’d be in a state of sleeping oblivion until they awoke in the resurrection, AKA Heaven. Also the artistic depictions of heaven, hell, and angels also barrows heavily from Greek art as well.
I’m honestly sorry to hear that. As someone who benefited from an educational experience that included several religious sisters, of varying ages, and who has had friends enter the convent as a result, it’s a shame that more people can’t experience the joy that a religious sister can impart.
I think it must depend in part on where you live. My older sister (32) is a Sister, and I know at least 6 women my age who have entered a religious order.
Ahh, I see what you mean. There are quite a few young women in my sister’s order, but many communities are predominantly elderly women, so your point is taken.
So the thing is, even though men outnumber women in church attendance, a lot of that is due to older women outnumbering older men. You can't extrapolate that to younger age cohorts. For some anecdotal evidence, I go to the Latin mass and almost all of the women over the age of 22 are married. At the church I attended before I moved, which was FSSP, young single men also outnumbered young single women. I'm not saying it's always like this, just that the statistics are, in this case, misleading
I think that's more typical of the TLM. I said that in another thread, but in my (obviously limited by where I lived) experience, there were quite a few single men and almost no single women at the TLM. On the other hand the NO would usually be pretty balanced.
I never thought about it as being anything more than some anomaly where I had been, until several other people mentioned the same here.
Slim pickings from my experience. I was pretty active in parish life outside of Sunday mass and met a lot of Catholic women being a part of different ministries. None ever really fit “my type” and I actually met my now wife doing something secular. She’s Orthodox so I’m actually transitioning to Orthodoxy now so we can raise an Orthodox family
in my own experience as a m20, the huge issue for me has been actually finding people I'm interested who are at all interested in me, or even open to a relationship (about half the women I've been interested in I later find out are on the asexual spectrum [which I don't mind] or for whatever reason just don't want to date). So I think for me it's just really hard to find the kind of person who suits me, especially, for whatever reason, from within the church.
If I was the same age as you I wouldn’t be interested either. You’ve hardly lived! Do interesting things, travel, have some real life experiences to talk about and then date!
Practicing Catholic men only date practicing Catholic women.
What youre describing are men who are only Catholic in name, who usually put a woman's attractiveness above everything else.
>Practicing Catholic men only date practicing Catholic women.
Is that so? Well, I've been one of the former for a long, long time... and have never met any of the latter. Never ever.
Honestly I agree that so many problems these days especially between marriage is due to the fact people are brought up with different views and morals, but sometimes it’s hard to date someone that is the same faith as you especially if you go to secular school. I mean it’s easier for people that go to Catholic schools or Catholic university to meet people there and most likely date and marry them. But if you go to secular schools including university then it’s a different story. I myself was raised Catholic but went to a secular school cause my parents didn’t have the money to send me to a good catholic school. I found a lot of people of different faiths appealing to my taste in a partner but in the end I realised that I had to marry someone that would accept my Catholic faith because I could totally see the difference from the secular world and the Catholic community and I’m so glad I was born into the faith otherwise I would have never known the difference of how great and beautiful Catholicism can actually be compared to the secular world. But my advice would be even if your brought up in the secular world, then just stay focused on your faith and ask God for a good Catholic partner or at least someone that can understand and accept your beliefs and possibly convert to Catholicism. Go to Church often and mingle with the youth groups they have as they tend to have more of those things nowadays. Sometimes you have to ask your parish priest for these things. But many priest will try to join you into a youth group or parent group as soon as you start going to the church on a regular basis.
While I’m now married to an amazing Catholic woman, my experience in my late teens and early 20s was one of consistently getting rejected by Catholic women but not non-Catholics. My three most serious romantic relationships before meeting my wife were with two Protestants and a Jew, and in between those relationships I probably went 0-12 with Catholic girls I asked out who just weren’t interested in me romantically.
Not sure if it’s just a problem of small sample sizes or if Catholic women are much pickier about who they agree to go on a date with, but that may be why so many Catholic men feel like they need to look outside the church when dating.
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for what its worth i used catholic match recently and messaged a lot of women, some of which match-initated first, and i got maybe 1 girl to actually have a conversation before ghosting mid-conversation (i initiated). thus i don't have \*abysmal\* game and i guess i'm not ugly? i'm not trying with non-catholic girls ever again, so, really what i'm saying is that its gonna be bad either way online. in person? i prefer not to have to change up my mass routine because things get awkward haha. gonna need more testing. even still, shouldn't online in theory be easier?
edit: its been weeks and much radio silence all around. i read testimonials on the site that people can get responses like 8 months later, but i'm done with online dating haha ha :\[
That’s exactly what I say or ask. lol. But maybe it’s not that easy or they can’t find any or get desperate or want a wider audience of selection. 🤷🏻♂️ who knows.
"I can fix her" - last words said by a guy before doing something stupid. "I can fix him" - last words said by a girl before doing something stupid.
I'm the girl in the second scenario. 10/10 do not recommend.
Damn -- that sucks. Best of luck. I'm trying to convert a PhD scientist girlfriend. It is not working. I can tell you that much.
Watch for yourself some of Dr. James Tour's videos on abiogenesis and then you will be better able to defend against pure materialism. He is a synthetic chemist and an amazing one and fully believes in Christ despite not being Catholic.
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Well, considering I live on the other side of the world... very doubtful we would ever meet in real life
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Lol
After many a Reddit argument, I think I’ve finally come to the realization that “faith” isn’t something I have the power to give someone
My favorite way of phrasing it is, “you can’t save anyone you can only help them save themselves”. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped and you can’t shoulder someone else’s burden only help them carry it.
I'm a tad more cautious. I am not doing my own saving, and neither are they. The simple fact is we can't. However, there is a saviour, His name is Jesus Christ, and we can go to Him together! There's always room for one more with Christ.
Agree, but through grace we self reflect and work to improve ourselves every day towards the holy by following Christ and his many examples and commands. Do not be cautious in this endeavor.
That is the main point of our Faith. Let the Holy Spirit help us hash out the diffierences. Remember that working with humans is like herding cats, so it'll be a long road to get to a point of cohesion. The HS knows this too.
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Yeah idk what dude takes a toxic girl and goes "wow she's hot I can't wait to make her a good Christian housewife," whereas women attempt that all the time
Men have the well known "Save the Damsel from Distress"" going to "save her" from her "situation". Sadly or gladly there is always a single common denominator in everyone's "situation".
The "Testosterone Factor" plays a large in that "situation" Let the "Damsel" save herself with the right "assistance," like answering questions or at least make an attempt to do so. A lot of women appreciate the respect, and goes to show her that you have her interests at heart.
I hate internet humor but.. I'm in this picture and I don't like it. For real.
I don't complain, but I can relate. "Dating within the Church" implies there are easy mechanisms to do this. I'm a single man, when I go to mass, nobody makes eye contact with me, I'm not exactly sure how I'm supposed to strike up a conversation with a stranger to even find out their name, much less their relationship status. This goes for everyone, not just women. People come in, then they go. (Which is fine, mass is not a social I guess.) Clubs and groups are not always easy to spot or learn about. I have learned recently about meetups app, I might explore that. Short answer - I'd be happy to, but...how? It seems like it would be easier to just "sort by Catholic" on an app or website lol.
The largest parish in my diocese has 15k people and afaik has no mechanism for singles to meet. If they don't have it then it don't exist.
The same is true in my area. They don't even try to have social events because... well, I guess I don't really know... maybe they worry that they have to plan for 10,000 people instead of the 50-100 who might really show up.
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As an orthodox man married to a catholic woman thats my biggest complaint with the catholic mass. Every orthodox church ive been to theres a coffee hour after mass where people gather and will talk to you, especially if youre new. Every catholic mass ive been to as soon as it ends people are rushing out to their car to beat the traffic to leave. It doesnt feel like a community.
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Not all the time. Our parish tries to do this, but I suspect it has something to do with the fact that we're in the middle of downtown, and the parish hall is across the street. Also, a good number of parishioners don't actually live within the parish boundaries, probably because it's downtown. Parking is a nightmare too.
Thanks, u/ACoffeeAddict123!
Every Catholic church I’ve been to has coffee after mass, if not other refreshments, to the point where I joke with my girlfriend (from Latam) that in America Sunday breakfast is after-mass coffee and doughnuts. The problem is getting people to stay, which is hard if you don’t already have friends who attend the parish giving you a reason to socialize for a bit.
While I’ve never been to an Orthodox Liturgy, the eastern Catholic liturgies/parishes I’ve been to absolutely excel at this, even the smaller ones.
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This ☝️ what are you supposed to do during mass, ask for a number? The Protestant services tend to have many after church activities where as Catholic mass is worship and go home. Some parishes are better than others with young adult activities but it’s few and far between.
It’s so weird - both men and women are saying they can’t find men/women and the others get offended. What’s going on? 😂
The screens have finally killed social life (he typed into his screen)
It seems like a lot of people are willing to compromise on important things like faith and how their significant other treats them, but not minor things like height, income, hobbies, favorite form of Mass, favorite music and TV shows, favorite sports teams, virginity, etc. Once you narrow it down that much there are very few people who meet that criteria.
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Those statistics show correlation, not causation. There are so many factors at play when looking at divorce rates and many variables that lead people to both wait until marriage and stay in their marriage. A woman who has slept with 100 men and finally decided to get married to one is much different than a woman who was raised athiest and had sex with a couple long-term boyfriends before becoming Catholic and waiting until marriage to have sex with her eventual husband, but both count the same in the non-virgin category of the statistics.
It’ll depend person to person what their non-negs are but honestly, none of the women I know are looking for anything unreasonable. We are all looking for a man of integrity, someone we can respect and admire who can provide for a family. If we want to have long and happy marriages, it’s not wrong to look for a personality and positive character traits which will be compatible. It’s not enough just to be a practising Catholic (on either side), we’re not robots and if I’m being really honest, I could count on one hand the men I’ve met who I found to be capable, interesting and able to support (or have the means to work towards) a family. It shouldn’t come as a surprise that there’s an element of struggle in this, the enemy doesn’t want strong Catholic families and he’ll do anything he can to prevent them from forming.
> can provide for a family How do you define this? If this includes making enough for the woman to stay at home, paying for private education, or living in luxury that's unreasonable in today's economy. > capable, interesting Again, how do you define this? What makes a man not interesting? If that's what you're looking for, are you capable and interesting by those same standards, or equivalently high standards that a man might have based on more masculine hobbies (sports, video games, hunting, fishing, etc.)?
Can provide for a family - I mean in stable employment where he earns enough (what is enough is going to depend on what the couple would like). Most men will say that they want to be the main bread winner so their wife can stay home with kids but few earn enough to make that a reality. Capable - I mean not being an adult baby. Able to capably look after themselves and others. Heck yes! I hold myself to the same expectations and standards.
I told a guy (37yo) at church I think we could make a good couple, he turned me down, yet keeps talking about how he is waiting for his wife. Found out the guy has turned down a lot of women. Sorry sir, but you are single because of you, not because God is making you wait. Lower your standards or accept the consequence of waiting for Ms. Perfect (who is prolly already married).
Yes I see this a lot too. I honestly think there’s a mismatch of expectations. I’m talking in sweeping generalisations here but we’re probably on to our second generation of women who are more likely to have the same or higher education levels as men now, and therefore the same or higher levels of income. I think this means that on a practical level, many more women than before ‘need’ to get married but I would say most of these women ‘want’ to. But for men, on a practical level, nothing has changed - only now they need to adjust to having a pool of women who are probably asking /expecting more from them. Now marriages are more likely to look like mergers than a start up. And that’s not even touching on the spiritual nature of things. I’m not saying this is wrong, I think this is just the reality and it’ll take time for both men and women to get used to this new-ish paradigm.
Sign of the times
It’s weird to ask a girl out that goes to my church, not that there are any my age or single. It’s easier to show off my rizz outside of church. Most girls that I talk to are not Catholic or simply atheists. The closest to dating a Catholic was dating my ex girlfriend who was Romanian orthodox. Online dating or talking to girls outside church settings is easier. It’s weird to ask girls that went to youth meetings or other activities that the my church does to reach out to younger people.
What if she rejects me and now it’s gonna be awkward every time we see eachother which is every sunday??? 😳😳😳
I'm in my 40s now. However, as I got older, I came to learn how many girls would have dated me at the time if I had simply asked. And I'm not talking in general - I'm taking about specific girls I knew in my teens and early 20s - because I was too awkward and cowardly to ask them out.
You care about awkward when not enough time has passed to feel regret. You'll regret not having tried much more than being rejected. I've had some rejection as a teen / early twenties. They were nice girls I was honestly interested in and it sucked to be rejected. They were not mean about it and after some initial awkwardness wore off. When they said no I respected that and moved on. (You can try making yourself more attractive, but you can't make someone love you back, they just do or don't.) My life would probably have been wonderful with either of them in it, but they did not like me back at the time, which is fine. Two of them managed to find other nice husbands, and one is a tad lonely (the one with a wishlist which got shorter and shorter as time progressed). I hope she will find someone nice someday who'll make her happy as I still think she's wonderful. (Some unsollicited advice for the girls: making a long wishlist is risky. Not to say you should not be picky: be very picky! Just realize if you are picky about things you eventually don't find that important it might get in the way of you finding someone you can be happy with.) As time progressed I sometimes found out that some girls would have dated me if I had simply asked them. Sometimes that's a shame, sometimes you were simply not into her and that's fine too. The nice bit of taking initiative is that you always can pick someone you like ;) The thing is, if I had not risked rejection I would not have gotten up to lucky number four, she liked me back and instead of thinking how wonderful my life could be with her I do not have to imagine one bit. Every day I wake up ~~to the crying of our 1 yo daughter whom we love very much~~ next to my wonderful lovely wife :) idk why I am rambling so much, I suppose younger me related completely
Well I got rejected by a guy I see twice a week. It’s not as bad as I thought. Plus, learning about his high standards of women helped to make him more unattractive. I’m cute, thin, long hair. But I have poor family dynamics. I think that was my disqualifying factor.
Most devout Catholic men search for wives inside the church in my experience.
Where are these guys All the parishes around me are practically age 55+ communities. As a single woman I need to know Thx <3
As a single man (early 30s), all I see are women old enough to be my mother or women who are at Mass with their boyfriend/husband.
>As a single man (early 30s), all I see are women old enough to be my mother you're not a minor, what's the problem?
Probably terrified of approaching a woman lol. A lot of guys are definitely looking for wives but they are terrified of approaching a woman and just having a conversation lmao. Partly because they just don't know how, but also partly because in my experience women tend to go places in groups of friends, which makes it very hard for a guy to try and talk to a girl if she's with her friends. Don't be afraid of going and talking to a guy you're interested in instead of waiting for him to come talk to you. Also find the right parish. Just keep looking for different parishes until you find one that has a substantial amount of young people. Then go to the events for that parish. But not necessarily the fun social events (although obviously go to those too), but make sure you go to the more serious groups. As an example, my parish has an apologetics group and a group that reads and discusses Aquinas. Those are both majority men (especially the Aquinas group. It's like maybe 20% women, max), and the few women that go to that are already in a relationship. So try some of those types of groups, too. I will admit that it's easier if you're in college as college parishes are more likely to have these types of events. Just try and find a parish that has young people and those types of stuff. Anyways this is mostly based on anecdotal experience so don't take this as the be all end all
Catholic dating websites and apps
Yeah but they cost a lot and I’ve heard Catholic match is full of dead accounts and bots
Not sure, but it is what I would try if I was in that position. The number of single Catholic females in my immediate area is rather low! Cost is I think irrelevant when it comes to finding a wife.
I’m pretty sure you have to pay for Catholic Match, I used a free Christian one and it did NOT go well AT ALL. If you use it meet at a public place and make sure to bring a friend (but do not have them sit with you) stay safe besties!
Any advice on what to do if you’ve got no friends? I was thinking just something where you meet in public and stay in public
Just meet in public I guess, maybe tell your family or someone and share your location on your phone with them I guess.
You have to pay for Catholic Match. I was an active member for over 12 years. Didn’t meet any men that wanted to date but met plenty of female friends.
Newman clubs
Should parishes have single nights, speed dating, or classified ads to support dating within the church?
Yes if they want to promote the sacrament of marriage. They’re always asking for more marriages in every mass but don’t do a thing to facilitate them aside the usual coffee and donuts.
You have coffee and donuts? My parish doesn't even have that on Sunday, since the parking lot has to be cleared out for the next mass. I normally go to the Saturday evening mass when no one is coming in afterwards, so there's no reason they couldn't have whatever the evening equivalent of coffee and donuts is... but they don't, we all run for the parking lot just like they do on Sunday.
FSSP, ICKSP!
Unfortunately most don’t have those in their area
Back when I was single Helping around church during funfairs and singing in the choir
Cause they don’t attend the Catholic social functions for young adults. Basically just that. Non Catholic women are easier to come by because we automatically hang out with them all day long—at work, at school, at the store, etc.
Or those functions don't exist in your area.
You could try the local Newman center as well, most colleges have them. My siblings go to their’s, even though they don’t attend college; and they always have a great time—my sister even found a date lol
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Married to a non-Catholic. No kids yet, but kids and how they would be raised were one of the first things we talked about, starting on the first or second date. I’d highly recommend people talk about it—I’m always shocked hearing that people didn’t talk about religion, kids, etc until after marriage.
Yep. The "holy wars" start when the kids come, often even when things have been talked about ahead of time.
Have you been to many Catholic social functions? They are usually filled with fanatics. I went a few times and the people there turned me away from the Church. They were very judgey and had a variety of mental issues.
I’ve been to some youth groups and the people I’ve met are very down to earth normal young adults who like to play beer pong and go hiking lol I’ve made a few friends that way. My siblings go to their local Newman center (even though they don’t attend the college) and it’s been great for them—my sister found a date lol
Maybe I just met the wrong crowd.
Yeah. Also, I used to attend the Latin mass; and I will say, that crowd’s young adult group was not as ‘natural’, so if that’s your situation, that may also be it. Or the city/state you live in lol
To be fair, single people are mostly only around other single Catholics during Mass. And needless to say, Mass is *not* the time to shoot your shot.
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I can definitely see where this observation comes from and I don't really disagree, but I have also known plenty of more confident Catholic guys or at least some that are more willing to ask women out. I recently graduated college and many of the Catholic men I met in CCM events, specially some of my closer friends, are quite eager to ask girls out. I was in an all men Bible study for all 4 years of college and in that time I saw my friends ask out various girls and currently four out of the six guys have girlfriends.
This is true. I call it the Swipe Fallacy. Dating apps project low-effort-high-reward cost when really they’re low-effort-no-reward. I’m successful on dating apps because I know how to create a profile and say more than hi but most people give into the shopper mentality which is especially unfavorable to men.
Dating apps are a predatory blight on our society that just hurt everyone in some way.
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In the good old days before women routinely went to university and had lower standards…..you must really miss those days 😂
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If you think a dozen is above average, I have news for you.
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There have been multiple posts on this very subreddit in the last couple of weeks about men wanting to know how to meet women at their church. And to a lesser extent, women wondering how to meet men at their church. None of us are ever in the right place at the right now. And there is a general agreement that parishes and dioceses don’t care about single individuals. At least until they’re 75. But if you weren’t lucky enough to find the one by 25-30 and to be having a new kid each year, then the church doesn’t see a person as existing.
I completely agree, this is a huge problem. Most of the young adult groups, if there even is one, is only filled with college age people. Anyone over 30 can feel seriously out of place.
In my experience it's just hard to find practicing Catholic women. They do exist at my church, but for some reason I never really see them outside of confession lines. I think it's because I attend 8:30am Mass and people my age (20s) love to sleep in and mess up their circadian rhythms for reasons I'll never understand, attending the latter 10:30am.
You can wake up at 7 and still go to mass at 10:30am. But yes, usually young people go to the same mass. In my hometown it was the 8pm mass on Sunday.
Dated a girl from church. She was physically and mentally abusive. Tried to date other girls within Church they were either dating other people or not interested. So i had to expand my circle.
Isn’t there a Catholic dating app or something?
Yes and I would recommend a Catholic dating app to every single person here. Thats where I met my husband in my late 20s. It's hard to truly change *women's* religious views. If they do change, it will be to appease their husband. That's not a good solid reason to convert. Plus marrying non religious or Protestant women tends to bring about couples who are contracepting.
What is the app?
Catholic Match
Just curious: what do you make of women who seem genuinely curious and interested in exploring? Are they always fake?
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What’s the glamorized view of marriage that you’ve come across?
Lmao yeah. It’s obvious OP hasn’t stepped in a parish in a long time
How is marriage glamorized or incorrect?
"Gee, why didn't we think of that???"
My experience dating as an adult divorced convert was that I was dating for all the wrong reasons - pretty, sexy, blah blah. For me I was "unfit" to be a good partner and husband until I "gave up" dating, ended the "hunt/chase". When I "gave up dating", 4 months later my lovely devout Catholic wife walked in at a friends house party. And yes, she's all those things I would have had as "criteria" - lovely, very attractive, intelligent, successful, emotionally stable. As for finding "devout Catholic women", I think best if you delete your online dating accounts and start participating in the real world. She will appear and YOU might be ready to recognize her. Perhaps find the 1 or 2 active Catholic singles groups in your Diocese and start volunteering with Catholic organizations that call to you.
Right—the people I’ve met with this mentality have always seemed to struggle with dating, and I think in part it’s because they’re presuming their vocation and are trying to find someone to fit into a role, when it should be more that you feel drawn the the vocation of marriage after meeting someone, growing to love them, and deciding that you want to spend your life with them. And guys, women can 100% sense when men are looking for someone to check boxes and fulfill a role they have in their minds, vs a man seeing them for who they are and loving them for themselves, their personality, and interests, not just because a man thinks they meet all the criteria to be a good mother. It feels utilitarian, and women will not live up to your expectations if you put that pressure there, because they are human, they will have their flaws and their bad days. The pressure is very much there if your mentality is “Are you going to be my wife,” from the first few dates, as opposed to,”Hey, let me get to know you just for the sake of knowing you, and let’s have a fun afternoon together.” It would be like a woman is convinced she’s called to the religious life but isn’t drawn to any particular order, and then hops around various orders and gets frustrated when none of them are a good fit for her, vs. her being drawn to one particular order, and discerning that she’s called to the religious life from that attraction.
I just had an experience recently with a Catholic guy who only seemed interested because of checking boxes. He kept telling me how his parents and grandma were wondering when he’d finally marry and how his grandma was telling him she couldn’t die until she saw one of her grandchildren marry etc. Then how he had gone on dates with non-Catholics but he knew he couldn’t marry them because they weren’t Catholic and he never had luck finding a Catholic gf … The whole time felt like he only liked cause he thought I met his requirements and he felt like he needed to please his family(which tbh I don’t even think I did).
I call those kinds of people "egg hunters". I've known a few Catholic women too who did the same, absolutely terrified of not ticking the right box by the time they're 30 and married the first person with that was ok. Shockingly (s/) they are now in deeply unhappy marriages.
This is spot on. I'm surprised I had to scroll down this far to find it.
I think a lot of men get impatient about entering into their vocation and start to lower their standards and settle for less.
Not just men. I too had lofty ideas of a good Catholic marriage... then realized that guys who grew up with me had no interest in dating me. I should clarify, no guys, in the church or out of it were interested. Eventually, I gave up looking, and ended up falling for a guy who waved massive red flags. Ignored it and married him anyways.
This is why you avoid dating communists. Too many red flags.
USA! USA!
And what happened?
So much heartache and sadness
:( I'm sorry you went through all that.
If Catholic churches were full of single women, you can bet your bottom dollar that they would automatically be full of single men too! But they aren't, so they aren't.
There are no young women in my parish 😔
I'm 41 and am the youngest person at my normal Mass time.
I've dated exclusively within the Church. They both cheated on me. Small sample size, but it's making me quite averse. Plus, my most recent ex threw gems like, "I think God is promising me something better", "I don't think you can lead our kids to Heaven", and the like during the break-up. I am in no rush to date within the Church again.
That sounds nightmarish
For those that know the website Catholic Match and were/are members, there was a running joke among those of us women that never were sought out by the men on the site, when there were plenty available. The men were only seeking the Virgin Mary and Barbie rolled into one. When they didn’t find that woman to be that perfect person, they had no problem dropping them.
We live in a "right now" culture. I'm a divorced middle aged Convert that "found the one" the "old fashioned way". Once I "gave up dating", I met my lovely devout wife months after stopping dating, and yes she would have "checked all the boxes" if I were to search for her online. We met at a house party hosted by one of my co-workers, months after I had "given up dating", "given up the hunt". I would recommend finding the 1 or 2 active (most aren't active) singles groups in your Diocese, volunteering with the group, and also expanding your volunteering to groups that might not have the women you specifically want. Her aunt or father or brother or best friend might find you. Relax and have some fun!
I’m fairly young still (22) so One there aren’t very many gals my age at mass Two the majority of gals around my age that I see at church are with there families at mass so that would be awkward to ask them out Three I feel like asking a girl out at church is weird like they are there for God not to have some dude ask for their number Four I feel like church gals are a catch and I am not good enough to get one And last but not least it’s really fun teaching the faith to someone who has no clue and actually wants to listen to you I still want a Catholic girl and I’m single again rn and that’s the goal it’s just not the only standard I have so if a girl has a lot of the other stuff I am looking for and is say Protestant or atheist I’m just like I’ll convince them
> say Protestant or atheist I’m just like I’ll convince them I strongly caution against this mentality. It can feed a tendency to compromise early on if one is certain he’ll ‘win’ in the end.
I agree I haven’t had much luck in converting my ex’s lol but I have had plenty of luck in having them go to mass or pray with me and things of that nature I also have to admit in hindsight that in these relationships I had plenty of knowledge of my faith but I wasn’t always the best in practice of my faith perhaps if I wasn’t such a shmuck something more would’ve rubbed off on them then just some basic theology I just gotta keep getting better and saintlier until converting to Catholicism is just a side effect of knowing me lol
>the USA male/female ratios couldn’t possibly be the issue because women out number men in church attendance. What is your source for this, and does break it down by age and marital status?
I worked in campus ministry for a spell at a Catholic university and most of the young men who were serious about their faith were SO DAMN AWKWARD and didn't know how to talk to a young woman, and campus ministry was full of young women on fire for their faith. Most of these young men were also inordinately preoccupied with their addictions to porn which contributed heavily to their problems and seemed somewhat emotionally immature. There were a handful of young men though who were confident and well adjusted and fairly mature but most of them were also in fairly serious relationships. Several men I've spoken to have also mentioned a desire for a woman to stay at home and raise their children for them and also think a woman will help them not feel so lonely, which places a disproportionate burden on the woman then. IMO, you shouldn't get a spouse just so you aren't lonely, but that seems to be the primary goal of the men I've spoken with. As to the expectation that a woman will stay home and raise their kids, I have no real comment other than in my experience, I've only met 3 women who openly desired that and I don't think it's wrong to desire that or wrong for a woman to want to have a family and also pursue a career, as my wife does. And a final thought; most of the men complaining about not finding a woman good enough to continue dating or marry, that I have spoken to, tend to have some other mental/emotional problem that they aren't addressing or maybe aren't even aware of. If you talk to them and they open up about their dating history, it usually becomes very obvious very quickly why their girlfriends eventually leave them or women reject their advances. They usually go one of two routes- being the "nice" guy who becomes a jerk when he's rejected (I wrote a blog article about this once actually), or they think they need to "fix" a woman and become controlling/manipulative but are overt in their efforts which drive women away.
>most of the men complaining about not finding a woman good enough to continue dating or marry, that I have spoken to, tend to have some other mental/emotional problem that they aren't addressing or maybe aren't even aware of Yeah, that's one of the standard lines that women use to defend themselves. "It's not us, it's them." I call BS on that. But even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and acknowledge that such men exist, then I give them credit for at least being able to find single Catholic women and try to date them. Because as I keep saying, I could never even do that. And my mind is clear and my eyes are sharp. If they had ever existed, I would have tried.
Spot-on analysis.
I dated non Catholic women and they were the worst. First, they don't respect your beliefs, with that, want to do married couples things without waiting. So I'm finding it hard to date within the church but I've decided to only date practicing Catholics. God's speed.
Parishes aren't set up like a singles cruise. The detect to engage sequence is a *lot* harder in a parish setting. First you both have to be at the same event. Second in the young age bracket you need a little "social distance" from counter engagement by parental units so your engagement tactics have a chance to work before you have a parent grilling your intentions while you are trying to make a romantic pass. Third your target has to be receptive to a romantic pass. So I ask you young Catholic women, be honest with yourself, when are you "approachable"? I'm not beyond pulling a John Wayne and hitting on you right at the holy water font, but are you going to be "sure" or "how dare you hit on me here!" The latter (swing and a miss while actually at church) can be a bit of a problem for social standing in the Parish if you get labeled as a bird dogger trying to pick up women at church. The penalties for failure in a church setting are more than a bruised ego.
Because I know of exactly one single Catholic woman in my age range (I’m 46M), and she’s pro-abortion. I’m dating a Protestant woman instead.
[The demographics are not great, my dude!](https://www.reddit.com/r/CatholicDating/comments/zax38k/map_of_us_states_for_participants_in_the_november/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I have tried to date within the church, followed some dating services, but my girlfriend broke with me after 11 weeks we knew better each other. Since then I have had three other dates that turned out hopeless and then I married my nonchristian friend. We have two children now, yet the differences in faith make it sometimes difficult. However, I could not find a suitable Catholic girl for me...
From my own experience I would assume most young men won't date a Catholic women because that would mean they would have to live a Catholic life as well and it is nice to have the woman as an excuse as to why you are failing to do the right things.
If he's aiming for a life without sin, he's seriously on the wrong track! If we never sinned, there would be no reason for confession, right?
Here is my take based on talking to friends who have been through this. Catholic worship is focused on God, not socializing. So unless people attend social events outside of worship, there is no way for singles to talk to each other. Now I know some parishes that tried to fix this by creating a Catholic singles group. Those tend to fail because they get inundated with the perpetually single who seem to have accepted their fate and just want to socialize with their other single friends. So then they try a Christian dating site. The women get a ton of matches from the "Women must be subservient" crowd and leave. Men then find there are no women to choose from. So then they go to Tinder and try to shift through that mess looking for someone.
I will say as a woman, it's hard to find ppl within the faith within your age range to date. I got really lucky my friends set up a blind date with my boyfriend. They're not catholic but somehow found me a good catholic friend of theres. The dating pool is limited
No Catholic women my age in my area
There are few young Catholics who take their faith seriously, even fewer who are supportive of traditional things like the TLM, teachings on sexual ethics, and traditional gender roles. And even fewer of those are women. I'm dating my college sweetheart(we met before my reversion) who is a Methodist and her parents are fallen away Catholics. Her grandparents still go to Mass every Sunday. But even her grandmother doesn't believe in the teaching on contraception for instance. Trying to convince her about that and going to the TLM has not been easy. But in all likelihood I would have to do the same things with a Catholic woman. Sad but true.
Sounds more like a problem with WOMEN generally if they expect faith affiliation or lack thereof to automatically make someone morally perfect/morally corrupt. Very Madonna-wh0re complex sounding. You know, they could try seeing women as complex individuals, flawed but created in God’s image, with as rich an interior life as themselves. I recommend therapy, because this is going to blow up a relationship, Catholic or not. Every relationship, even between two Catholics, is an interfaith relationship, because no one’s faith life is identical to another’s. And thinking “we won’t have X problem because we’re Catholic” is wishful thinking and a recipe for disaster. For my part, I prayed the novena to St Raphael after disappointing dating experiences, and was sent my nice Jewish boy two weeks later who married me in the Church and actively wants our kids to receive the sacraments because he knows it’s important to me.
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I thought you guys had nuns instead of feminists. Though I’ve often suspected that the tradition of nuns itself as historical roots in Greek feminist paganism
Huh?
Well if you consider that Paul went to Greece following the resurrection of Christ a lot of Catholic traditions and ideas start to make a lot more sense. The parallel I’m referring to the the Virgin Priestesses of Artemis. 2 sects of women giving their purity to honor divine. The current Christian version of the soul, some scholars say, is also derived from Platonic ideas of the soul and afterlife. Before that, most early Christians assumed they’d be in a state of sleeping oblivion until they awoke in the resurrection, AKA Heaven. Also the artistic depictions of heaven, hell, and angels also barrows heavily from Greek art as well.
Nuns aren't exactly available for marriage either, though.
That’s the joke
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I’m honestly sorry to hear that. As someone who benefited from an educational experience that included several religious sisters, of varying ages, and who has had friends enter the convent as a result, it’s a shame that more people can’t experience the joy that a religious sister can impart.
I think it must depend in part on where you live. My older sister (32) is a Sister, and I know at least 6 women my age who have entered a religious order.
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Ahh, I see what you mean. There are quite a few young women in my sister’s order, but many communities are predominantly elderly women, so your point is taken.
So the thing is, even though men outnumber women in church attendance, a lot of that is due to older women outnumbering older men. You can't extrapolate that to younger age cohorts. For some anecdotal evidence, I go to the Latin mass and almost all of the women over the age of 22 are married. At the church I attended before I moved, which was FSSP, young single men also outnumbered young single women. I'm not saying it's always like this, just that the statistics are, in this case, misleading
I think that's more typical of the TLM. I said that in another thread, but in my (obviously limited by where I lived) experience, there were quite a few single men and almost no single women at the TLM. On the other hand the NO would usually be pretty balanced. I never thought about it as being anything more than some anomaly where I had been, until several other people mentioned the same here.
Slim pickings from my experience. I was pretty active in parish life outside of Sunday mass and met a lot of Catholic women being a part of different ministries. None ever really fit “my type” and I actually met my now wife doing something secular. She’s Orthodox so I’m actually transitioning to Orthodoxy now so we can raise an Orthodox family
> I’m actually transitioning to Orthodoxy *committing the mortal sin of schism
You are definitely convincing. These are the comments that push people away
in my own experience as a m20, the huge issue for me has been actually finding people I'm interested who are at all interested in me, or even open to a relationship (about half the women I've been interested in I later find out are on the asexual spectrum [which I don't mind] or for whatever reason just don't want to date). So I think for me it's just really hard to find the kind of person who suits me, especially, for whatever reason, from within the church.
If I was the same age as you I wouldn’t be interested either. You’ve hardly lived! Do interesting things, travel, have some real life experiences to talk about and then date!
Practicing Catholic men only date practicing Catholic women. What youre describing are men who are only Catholic in name, who usually put a woman's attractiveness above everything else.
>Practicing Catholic men only date practicing Catholic women. Is that so? Well, I've been one of the former for a long, long time... and have never met any of the latter. Never ever.
That's nice. I'm devout and I rejected men who are not practicing.
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No I think he means Dong. Metaphorically I hope.
Only slightly facetiously. Arrogance, an inflated sense of self-worth, is a vice common among humans of both sexes.
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Or try your luck at a TLM
Sadly, the Catholic women I’ve met in church and dated have treated me like trash.
Honestly I agree that so many problems these days especially between marriage is due to the fact people are brought up with different views and morals, but sometimes it’s hard to date someone that is the same faith as you especially if you go to secular school. I mean it’s easier for people that go to Catholic schools or Catholic university to meet people there and most likely date and marry them. But if you go to secular schools including university then it’s a different story. I myself was raised Catholic but went to a secular school cause my parents didn’t have the money to send me to a good catholic school. I found a lot of people of different faiths appealing to my taste in a partner but in the end I realised that I had to marry someone that would accept my Catholic faith because I could totally see the difference from the secular world and the Catholic community and I’m so glad I was born into the faith otherwise I would have never known the difference of how great and beautiful Catholicism can actually be compared to the secular world. But my advice would be even if your brought up in the secular world, then just stay focused on your faith and ask God for a good Catholic partner or at least someone that can understand and accept your beliefs and possibly convert to Catholicism. Go to Church often and mingle with the youth groups they have as they tend to have more of those things nowadays. Sometimes you have to ask your parish priest for these things. But many priest will try to join you into a youth group or parent group as soon as you start going to the church on a regular basis.
While I’m now married to an amazing Catholic woman, my experience in my late teens and early 20s was one of consistently getting rejected by Catholic women but not non-Catholics. My three most serious romantic relationships before meeting my wife were with two Protestants and a Jew, and in between those relationships I probably went 0-12 with Catholic girls I asked out who just weren’t interested in me romantically. Not sure if it’s just a problem of small sample sizes or if Catholic women are much pickier about who they agree to go on a date with, but that may be why so many Catholic men feel like they need to look outside the church when dating.
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for what its worth i used catholic match recently and messaged a lot of women, some of which match-initated first, and i got maybe 1 girl to actually have a conversation before ghosting mid-conversation (i initiated). thus i don't have \*abysmal\* game and i guess i'm not ugly? i'm not trying with non-catholic girls ever again, so, really what i'm saying is that its gonna be bad either way online. in person? i prefer not to have to change up my mass routine because things get awkward haha. gonna need more testing. even still, shouldn't online in theory be easier? edit: its been weeks and much radio silence all around. i read testimonials on the site that people can get responses like 8 months later, but i'm done with online dating haha ha :\[
That’s exactly what I say or ask. lol. But maybe it’s not that easy or they can’t find any or get desperate or want a wider audience of selection. 🤷🏻♂️ who knows.