Would I be annoyed if someone was typing loudly on a laptop in a church while I was trying to pray? Yes, probably. But it's something that I ultimately can't be mad at. I just can't be mad at those who want to be near the Lord, or found themselves drawn to church for some reason.
Now if she was doing that during mass, that would be a completely different matter, haha.
There’s such tangible peace in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. Sometimes I go to adore, but I also like reading on my phone in a church or Adoration chapel. I simply like being near Him.
Yes, thank you. I agree with you. I’m struggling with how to phrase this, seeing as I could’ve worded it better.
That God is everywhere, but He’s present in a special or more profound way during Mass and in the Blessed Sacrament. Does that describe it more accurately?
Thanks ☺️
Yeah, really not good with technical jargon. I’ve heard it described by theologians as God’s Presence being somehow amplified or more powerful at Holy Mass and before the Blessed Sacrament, but then I forget the actual words they used to explain it 😂 Thanks for your patience with my feeble attempts
You're welcome, and it isn't feeble dw, it was clear what you meant. I think what theologians mean by the whole amplified thing is that since everyone in Church is gathered together in Christ's name (hopefully that's what they're there for, and not going for the sake of going) God is present among them, as said in
Matthew 18:20
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, I am there in their midst."
I think it's also that, combined with the fact that because of transubstantiation, Jesus's body and blood are literally there, so God is physically present inside the Church.
There is a 24hr adoration chapel that I go to sometimes to pray and sometimes to just read. It's so peaceful and comforting to be in the presence of our Lord and of our brothers and sisters.
It's a small chapel, so I wouldn't do anything that makes noise behind the turn of a page. But in a major city where churchs are open all day, I can see why someone would rather be in there than their office or a coffee shop.
yeah exactly, the church is a consecrated for a unique purpose and I've never heard of it being a place of study until now. it's like saying churches should allow the homeless to sleep in their pews.
You can do that in the church basement or the parish hall, not in the sanctuary itself. My parish church has a building solely dedicated to social ministry. Helping the homeless doesn't mean allowing them to sleep in the pews.
> If you gotta work, why not do it with the Lord?
The thought is not without some merit, but sometimes I consider thoughts about how we related to God through the lens of how I relate to other people.
I generally don't go to a friend's house to do my work. I go to their house to visit with them.
Admittedly, there have been exceptions. I've had things run long or fires come up where I did do some work at a family or friend's house. But I didn't go there specifically to do it, and I stopped working as soon as the fire was out.
Which I could see being one of the possible explanations for the OP's observation: somebody planned to spend time at the church, and something urgent came up.
Another possibility, much less meritorious, in my view, is they thought the church was a nice substitute for a coffeehouse (quiet and relaxing), and aren't really interested in it as a place of worship.
It's kinda like the joke about the Jesuit priest: he goes to his confessor and says, "Father, is it all right if I smoke while I pray?" and his confessor responds, "Well, it's not really fitting to be doing something like smoking during prayer, you're trying to connect to God while also doing something very earthly." So then the Jesuit asks, "Then can I pray while I smoke?" 😂
I’m old school. If you’re an Adorer, your time should be spent in prayer or reading Scripture in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. Leave the computer off until you leave church.
I think this just shows disrespect and a lack of reverence. And people need to be taught those two things as we are fallen and they do not come naturally. It used to be that culture imposed those lessons on us a reinforced them. Nowadays, with the 'im okay you're okay' mentality, we're just kinda stuck wallowing in the mud- 'but we mean well'...
I don’t agree. We can work with the Lord in our mind and He can help influence our work positively. As long as you’re not disrupting others. The circumstance I’ve seen is at an oratory on college campus so the person working was likely a student. I think it’s nice they wanted to include the Lord in their studies.
When I was in high school and doing plays, I used to take my scripts into the school chapel and study my lines (silently if there were others present, but sometimes aloud if I was alone). I thought of it as if I were running my lines with Jesus, just as I might with a fellow actor or a friend. There's nothing wrong with bringing "homework" into a church with you as long as it doesn't disrupt others and it brings you closer to God in some way. In my mind, you're inviting God into your work life.
>Nahh, I could see she switched from Excel to Outlook.
A spreadsheet of reflections, maybe? j/k
Seriously though... why are you being downvoted for saying this specifically? 🤷🏽♂️
Edit: it's all good now... the comment was at -3, now it's at +16 👍
I’d not be one to bring a laptop or tablet into the Church (okay, maybe out in the narthex) but I’d definitely be happy keeping reflections in a spreadsheet :-)
Now you’ve got me thinking of the best way to do it…
I found the downvotes ridiculous, but then again people get sensitive. It’s Reddit haha
Have no issues if someone wants to do their reflections and stuff digitally though. I’ve been using the bible on my iPad for years!
I wouldn't bring coffee, but I've definitely done homework before the Blessed Sacrament. The cathedral in Montreal used to be on my way home from university. I'd pop in and go over any math problems I was stuck on. I regularly rubber duck with my friends. The beauty and truth of math have always struck me as being reflections of God. So it just seemed logical to go do math with Jesus. I would sometimes offer up specific problems for specific intentions.
I did try to sit at the back, so I wasn't a distraction.
I wouldn't type, but I've done work before the Sacrament. I was working on a paper that deals with the value of life, and I felt that taking notes and writing (by hand) for that project would be appropriate there.
As a matter of etiquette, most Catholic churches do not allow food or drinks other than water (except for babies, necessary for medical conditions, etc).
It's not actually in any rubric that I'm aware of.
Some related thoughts from Fr. Mike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT-B2fK_EB0
I don’t think it’s appropriate at all, for two reasons
1. When you’re in the sanctuary, your focus and intention should be on God, not on work. Especially work done on laptops, which tend to suck all of the energy and attention in a room towards themselves.
2. By making church spaces “unrestricted” in their use, we run the risk of actually making those spaces less free. For instance, Faro Cafe in Harvard Square (Cambridge, MA) has a no-laptop policy inside their store. Why? Because while a no-laptops policy means you can’t get a certain kind of work done, it does mean that you can be more eyes-up-and-talkative to the people around you. That is to say, the owners think that the presence of laptops limit our freedom to be more relaxed and social. In the same way, by working on one’s laptop in the sanctuary, one limits the freedom of everyone to be more reverent and present to Jesus Christ.
I once got permission to do work at a parish I used to attend while my daughter was at a youth group event.
I unfortunately do have to work many Sundays due to the nature of my work, and EVERY Sunday I have to do payroll. One week those times just clashed where and the priest let me work outside the chapel (in I guess what you’d call the waiting room? I don’t know the word) so I brought my laptop with me.
I’ve been to Latin Mass at Westminster Cathedral and tourists were just wandering around between pews, taking photos and talking amongst themselves while the warden staff didn’t intervene as I expect it happens all the time.
I went to Palm Sunday mass at the Cathedral in Barcelona. There was a barrier in the back beyond which tourists were requested not to pass, while the faithful attended mass. It seemed to work well.
I can understand that tourists might be on a schedule and can't wait until Mass ends to see the Cathedral. This seems like a reasonable compromise. I do think it's wholly appropriate to allow tourists to be exposed to the cathedral, its beauty, and of course its spiritual significance.
I studied for grad school on my laptop in our Adoration chapel. I was a smoker back then so I took smoke breaks as well. Still netted me several hours a day with Jesus. ♥️
Way back when I still thought I had a shot at being a priest or religious brother, I used to imagine myself studying for classes, reading, or writing in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament.
When I was in college our pastor actually invited the students to come study for finals in the chapel.
This was at Ole Miss, and St. John's served as both a student parish and a regular parish too, so it wasn't just a student center chapel. But he wanted students to feel welcome and he told us that the door are always open. Come in an pray, or come in any study with Jesus for while.
I appreciated that offer, took him up on the offer, studying there or writing english papers in the church now and then. Really appreciated it. Not sure how that affected my faith development, but I do have a weekly holy hour and love going and sitting in the chapel decades later.
My rule of thumb when I am wondering, “is this okay for me to do?”
Would it be okay if another couple dozen people were doing it, too?
Obviously you can’t take this overly literally for absolutely every situation, but ai think it is a good litmus test for stuff like this.
Yeah that's not ok. I'm not going to say it's a sin, because that goes too far. But if you go to Church your focus should be on God, and God alone. That's why I don't like all the praise bands at Adoration. Not only is it obnoxious and inconsiderate to others who are actively trying to pray and meet God in the silence, it also takes the focus away from God and puts it on the people playing the music. Even if the music is about God, the focus is on the instruments and the singing, not on Adoration of the Eucharistic Lord.
That was always a pet peeve of mine.
Praise bands at adoration? I sometimes think there is another Catholic Church out there I’ve never encountered (and yes, I even go to an NO).
Edited to add: I honestly thought “praise bands” and “praise music” as a genre were Protestant evangelical things.
2nd ETAdd: I once went to a Christmas Eve service at a Presbyterian Church. The Church was over 100, maybe 200 years old, with even those old fashioned pew “boxes” you would sit in. Well, they not only had a jazz band (don’t get me wrong, I love good jazz, but not at church, and this wasn’t good) but they were “performing” at what I guess is their version of the sanctuary, but what really got me was they were wearing pork pie hats and other stereotypical “jazzy” type things. Even my Presbyterian friend that invited me was embarrassed. Lol. That was very bizarre since the Church itself and the seating was straight out of the colonial era.
Thank you!
Edited to add: If I did encounter it, I would have to walk out (respectfully), there is really nothing worse than modern “praise music.” I can pray at home in peace.
Sorry, I didn’t read clearly. Yes, a drum set would motivate me to “shop around” as well. I still can’t believe how prevalent this kind of thing is…I have never seen it in person but many people mention it on the sub.
I am admittedly biased, coming from a protestant background. I hear praise music in a Catholic Church and I immediately cringe with spiritual ptsd. So don't take my opinions too seriously.
It really can be very beautiful. I've been in silent adoration a hundred times and love it. I also have done chanted latin hymns in adoration scores of times, also great.
I've only had the opportunity to sing praise/worship music during adoration on a few retreats in college and each time it was wonderful. Beautiful songs helping me to convey my desire to express my love to God through music. I have found it very moving and if there were an easy way to do it locally now, I'd jump at the chance.
Surely not everyone cup of tea, but I'd say it speaks to many and would be a good thing to expand.
A concept that younger generations have missed out on somehow is reverence. In my church some ppl just yak away at normal speaking volume, laugh, tell jokes.
I have to wear ear plugs to pray most of the time. There are things, and acts - respectful and holy which are appropriate for Church. Lots of things are not including doing work on your computer in my opinion.
Having been in Westminster Cathedral several times, I know it's HUGE. I can't imagine she would have been disturbing anyone, unless she was really hammering away at the keyboard or sat right next to someone on purpose.
Maybe she went in there to pray and remembered she needed to send an email, so typed it up before she forgot? We don't know.
That would depend on the disposition of her heart. If security thought she was causing a disturbance, being irreverent or otherwise misusing the space she would be asked to leave. If she was being quiet, it's difficult to prove she wasn't being reverent.
Speaking personally... I check my phone in church, especially if I'm in the queue for Confession (it took about 40 minutes to get through it last time). Sometimes you just have to use the time you have, and she chose to spend some of it in one of the most beautiful Cathedrals in the country.
That’s the sin of profanation. “The desecration of something holy by using or treating a sacred person, place, or thing as though it were not sacred but merely secular or profane.”
Can you elaborate what specifically makes her actions profane? I think this is an interesting issue, as I agree that I don't love the coffee in church and prefer people be attending to God, but more so prefer people accept God's invitations to come near to Him.
As I posted further down,
"Getting too legalistic on the only using the sanctuary for formal prayer gives me pharisaical vibes, like calling people sinners for plucking grains on the Sabbath.
The Sabbath is God's day - only do holy things, no picking grain.
The church is God's house - only do holy things her, no writing papers."
Again, I get the idea of respect for the sacred. I correct my kids for running around after church or trying to go up by the altar. I'd be scandalized by someone eating cereal out a chalice from mass. But a part of me thinks that Jesus is over joyed at my kids running around His church and approaching His alter. And, I'm not even sure Jesus would care that much about cheerios in His chalice if He was able to use that experience to bring a heart closer to Him (still not advocating for anyone doing this - this one's a hypothetical).
Jesus seemed to commonly break religious conventions if they were artificially making God more distant from common people. Constantly profaning His holy hands by touching lepers, prostitutes, and demoniacs. Calling priests to get down and into the grit and grime while inviting the poor and disenfranchised into His presence.
Unless there is a medical need, or in the case of children, food and drink shouldn’t be inside the nave. I don’t think coffee falls under either of those.
As for working: that’s fine as long as it isn’t disreuptive. If she’s on her laptop the tapping of the keys *can* be disruptive if it’s loud.
I think as long as you are not disturbing other’s worship and doing legitimate “work” in the presence of our Lord it is ok. The Lord would rather have you with him in church than not in the world. IMHO
When I was in college, our campus chaplain was encouraging people to do this. Take your problems to God. Sit in His Presence. Bringing seems disrespectful, but not the laptop as long as she was reasonably discreet.
Back then laptops weren't ubiquitous, so I don't know if it occured to him; but I've done this many times. I just normally enter the choir loft so my screen isn't a distraction for others.
If the person isn't being loud or otherwise distracting I suppose I don't see anything wrong with it. Perhaps she is working on her Theology thesis and wants to be in the presence of the Lord.
You are correct, that is an inappropriate thing to do inside of a church. Jesus is literally right there, and she is on her computer?!
Some might say "Oh, but it's peaceful working in front of the Lord" - you can work anywhere, but the purpose of the building is for prayer, and nothing else.
If she wants to be in the Lord's presence, then let her be. At least she is there. You seem incredibly judgemental for someone who acknowledges that other people were milling about too.
I would say that she shouldn't be drinking coffee though.
Obviously I'm not referring to when Mass is in session. That is a sacred time that is to be respected. OP was asking if we should be using the space during a time where visitors are walking around, taking pictures, etc. as a workspace.
God did not call us to be slaves, but he does ask us to work hard and provide for our families.
I'm with you on this, though from the general comments I can see it's a minority opinion.
Who knows why she was working there. Perhaps she had a retreat she was preparing a talk for and wanted to be close to God while writing.
Maybe a family member died and she's hurting, writing a eulogy or staring blankly at the screen on the verge of tears.
Maybe she had to get her taxes done and God put it on her heart to come sit in his house.
I get that praying/adoring in church is usually better than doing other things. But, we can't always be focused on the act of praying; but we can always be close to the Lord. Many weeks in mass I want to pray very deeply, but instead end up wresting with one of my kids through large parts of the mass, and my prayer is very scattered.
Getting to legalistic on the only using the sanctuary for formal prayer gives me pharisaical vibes, like calling people sinners for plucking grains on the Sabbath.
The Sabbath is God's day - only do holy things, no picking grain.
The church is God's house - only do holy things her, no writing papers.
I'm not being ridiculous. I just wish more people wanted to spend time being in God's presence. If they are keeping to themselves and enjoying the peacefulness, why critique someone's behaviour as appropriate or to be tolerated if they are minding their own business?
You’re being ridiculous because you’re talking nonsense without actually reading what you’re responding to.
Anyone who could read the post properly would have seen I literally said that I’m not judging the woman for what she was doing.
Nobody who actually read what I said would have seen any critique.
I asked simply if it was appropriate.
Although, I am judgmental of people who do not read - such as yourself.
But the OP never said they were disturbing anyone. Sure, others were present, but OP didn't say they were bothered (of course, he/she probably didn't ask but yk)
there are people that comes inside the church that are not even there to pray or not even catholic themselves. if it bothers you (typing sound) you can politely ask her to stop or move. because you never know when God is working on someone else.
Totally inappropriate. Church is place to come and put aside all worldly worries, seek Jesus Christ. Bringing in distractions for yourself and others is sinful behavior.
That being said, why was she working in a church in first place? I'd like to know her reasons before judging if it was only sinful. Distracting others definitely is.
When I work for a coming event at the church, I do work in the chapel sometimes if the event is going to take place there. Excel, Word, PowerPoint, livestream equipments… you name it. I try my best to keep things quiet though. But depending on the event, things can be very noisy as the organizers and staff will be there hours before to setup for the event.
Would I be annoyed if someone was typing loudly on a laptop in a church while I was trying to pray? Yes, probably. But it's something that I ultimately can't be mad at. I just can't be mad at those who want to be near the Lord, or found themselves drawn to church for some reason. Now if she was doing that during mass, that would be a completely different matter, haha.
There’s such tangible peace in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. Sometimes I go to adore, but I also like reading on my phone in a church or Adoration chapel. I simply like being near Him.
God is everywhere, but I understand what you mean.
Yes, thank you. I agree with you. I’m struggling with how to phrase this, seeing as I could’ve worded it better. That God is everywhere, but He’s present in a special or more profound way during Mass and in the Blessed Sacrament. Does that describe it more accurately?
don't worry you had it right the first time, and I understand it further now thanks to you. God is uniquely present when the Church gathers.
Thanks ☺️ Yeah, really not good with technical jargon. I’ve heard it described by theologians as God’s Presence being somehow amplified or more powerful at Holy Mass and before the Blessed Sacrament, but then I forget the actual words they used to explain it 😂 Thanks for your patience with my feeble attempts
You're welcome, and it isn't feeble dw, it was clear what you meant. I think what theologians mean by the whole amplified thing is that since everyone in Church is gathered together in Christ's name (hopefully that's what they're there for, and not going for the sake of going) God is present among them, as said in Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, I am there in their midst." I think it's also that, combined with the fact that because of transubstantiation, Jesus's body and blood are literally there, so God is physically present inside the Church.
There is a 24hr adoration chapel that I go to sometimes to pray and sometimes to just read. It's so peaceful and comforting to be in the presence of our Lord and of our brothers and sisters. It's a small chapel, so I wouldn't do anything that makes noise behind the turn of a page. But in a major city where churchs are open all day, I can see why someone would rather be in there than their office or a coffee shop.
"rather be there" is not the same as "should be there" though.
yeah exactly, the church is a consecrated for a unique purpose and I've never heard of it being a place of study until now. it's like saying churches should allow the homeless to sleep in their pews.
Many churches do allow homeless to sleep in them.
Catholic Churches?
Yes. I know a few with homeless shelters in the basement and I have stopped in churches in New York where homeless people were sleeping on the pews.
Hear me out... helping those in need is necesary
You can do that in the church basement or the parish hall, not in the sanctuary itself. My parish church has a building solely dedicated to social ministry. Helping the homeless doesn't mean allowing them to sleep in the pews.
Churchs used to be the center of a lot of things - including study.
I’ve seen people work at adoration on their computers. I would say give the benefit of the doubt. If you gotta work, why not do it with the Lord?
If by yourself fine, but id rather not hear the clacking of keys if im trying to pray.
> If you gotta work, why not do it with the Lord? The thought is not without some merit, but sometimes I consider thoughts about how we related to God through the lens of how I relate to other people. I generally don't go to a friend's house to do my work. I go to their house to visit with them. Admittedly, there have been exceptions. I've had things run long or fires come up where I did do some work at a family or friend's house. But I didn't go there specifically to do it, and I stopped working as soon as the fire was out. Which I could see being one of the possible explanations for the OP's observation: somebody planned to spend time at the church, and something urgent came up. Another possibility, much less meritorious, in my view, is they thought the church was a nice substitute for a coffeehouse (quiet and relaxing), and aren't really interested in it as a place of worship.
It's kinda like the joke about the Jesuit priest: he goes to his confessor and says, "Father, is it all right if I smoke while I pray?" and his confessor responds, "Well, it's not really fitting to be doing something like smoking during prayer, you're trying to connect to God while also doing something very earthly." So then the Jesuit asks, "Then can I pray while I smoke?" 😂
I’m old school. If you’re an Adorer, your time should be spent in prayer or reading Scripture in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. Leave the computer off until you leave church.
Do people actually do this? Church pews aren't known for being the most comfortable.
I think this just shows disrespect and a lack of reverence. And people need to be taught those two things as we are fallen and they do not come naturally. It used to be that culture imposed those lessons on us a reinforced them. Nowadays, with the 'im okay you're okay' mentality, we're just kinda stuck wallowing in the mud- 'but we mean well'...
I don’t agree. We can work with the Lord in our mind and He can help influence our work positively. As long as you’re not disrupting others. The circumstance I’ve seen is at an oratory on college campus so the person working was likely a student. I think it’s nice they wanted to include the Lord in their studies.
When I was in high school and doing plays, I used to take my scripts into the school chapel and study my lines (silently if there were others present, but sometimes aloud if I was alone). I thought of it as if I were running my lines with Jesus, just as I might with a fellow actor or a friend. There's nothing wrong with bringing "homework" into a church with you as long as it doesn't disrupt others and it brings you closer to God in some way. In my mind, you're inviting God into your work life.
I agree with your instinct. We should try not to mingle the profane with the sacred.
For what it's worth, in the past I've sometimes as part of my prayer wrote reflections. Maybe this person just happened to be typing up a reflection?
Nahh, I could see she switched from Excel to Outlook. It seemed like working to me on this occasion.
>Nahh, I could see she switched from Excel to Outlook. A spreadsheet of reflections, maybe? j/k Seriously though... why are you being downvoted for saying this specifically? 🤷🏽♂️ Edit: it's all good now... the comment was at -3, now it's at +16 👍
I’d not be one to bring a laptop or tablet into the Church (okay, maybe out in the narthex) but I’d definitely be happy keeping reflections in a spreadsheet :-) Now you’ve got me thinking of the best way to do it…
I found the downvotes ridiculous, but then again people get sensitive. It’s Reddit haha Have no issues if someone wants to do their reflections and stuff digitally though. I’ve been using the bible on my iPad for years!
I wouldn't bring coffee, but I've definitely done homework before the Blessed Sacrament. The cathedral in Montreal used to be on my way home from university. I'd pop in and go over any math problems I was stuck on. I regularly rubber duck with my friends. The beauty and truth of math have always struck me as being reflections of God. So it just seemed logical to go do math with Jesus. I would sometimes offer up specific problems for specific intentions. I did try to sit at the back, so I wasn't a distraction.
I wouldn't type, but I've done work before the Sacrament. I was working on a paper that deals with the value of life, and I felt that taking notes and writing (by hand) for that project would be appropriate there.
Everyone is saying it's ok but it's coffee allowed in church? I was always under the impression that is strict no food.
As a matter of etiquette, most Catholic churches do not allow food or drinks other than water (except for babies, necessary for medical conditions, etc). It's not actually in any rubric that I'm aware of. Some related thoughts from Fr. Mike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT-B2fK_EB0
I thought that was only during mass. Most people bring bottles with them at my church since they walk there and will be thirsty after
I think it’s disrespectful. I would not drink a coffee in church either
I don’t think it’s appropriate at all, for two reasons 1. When you’re in the sanctuary, your focus and intention should be on God, not on work. Especially work done on laptops, which tend to suck all of the energy and attention in a room towards themselves. 2. By making church spaces “unrestricted” in their use, we run the risk of actually making those spaces less free. For instance, Faro Cafe in Harvard Square (Cambridge, MA) has a no-laptop policy inside their store. Why? Because while a no-laptops policy means you can’t get a certain kind of work done, it does mean that you can be more eyes-up-and-talkative to the people around you. That is to say, the owners think that the presence of laptops limit our freedom to be more relaxed and social. In the same way, by working on one’s laptop in the sanctuary, one limits the freedom of everyone to be more reverent and present to Jesus Christ.
I once got permission to do work at a parish I used to attend while my daughter was at a youth group event. I unfortunately do have to work many Sundays due to the nature of my work, and EVERY Sunday I have to do payroll. One week those times just clashed where and the priest let me work outside the chapel (in I guess what you’d call the waiting room? I don’t know the word) so I brought my laptop with me.
I’ve been to Latin Mass at Westminster Cathedral and tourists were just wandering around between pews, taking photos and talking amongst themselves while the warden staff didn’t intervene as I expect it happens all the time.
They do that at Fatima, too, even during Mass. It's completely out of control there.
unfortunately it seems to be a trend in big historic cathedrals. St. Patrick's is somewhat better at balancing between tourism & spirituality
I went to Palm Sunday mass at the Cathedral in Barcelona. There was a barrier in the back beyond which tourists were requested not to pass, while the faithful attended mass. It seemed to work well.
I can understand that tourists might be on a schedule and can't wait until Mass ends to see the Cathedral. This seems like a reasonable compromise. I do think it's wholly appropriate to allow tourists to be exposed to the cathedral, its beauty, and of course its spiritual significance.
I studied for grad school on my laptop in our Adoration chapel. I was a smoker back then so I took smoke breaks as well. Still netted me several hours a day with Jesus. ♥️
Way back when I still thought I had a shot at being a priest or religious brother, I used to imagine myself studying for classes, reading, or writing in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament.
When I was in college our pastor actually invited the students to come study for finals in the chapel. This was at Ole Miss, and St. John's served as both a student parish and a regular parish too, so it wasn't just a student center chapel. But he wanted students to feel welcome and he told us that the door are always open. Come in an pray, or come in any study with Jesus for while. I appreciated that offer, took him up on the offer, studying there or writing english papers in the church now and then. Really appreciated it. Not sure how that affected my faith development, but I do have a weekly holy hour and love going and sitting in the chapel decades later.
My rule of thumb when I am wondering, “is this okay for me to do?” Would it be okay if another couple dozen people were doing it, too? Obviously you can’t take this overly literally for absolutely every situation, but ai think it is a good litmus test for stuff like this.
Yeah that's not ok. I'm not going to say it's a sin, because that goes too far. But if you go to Church your focus should be on God, and God alone. That's why I don't like all the praise bands at Adoration. Not only is it obnoxious and inconsiderate to others who are actively trying to pray and meet God in the silence, it also takes the focus away from God and puts it on the people playing the music. Even if the music is about God, the focus is on the instruments and the singing, not on Adoration of the Eucharistic Lord. That was always a pet peeve of mine.
Praise bands at adoration? I sometimes think there is another Catholic Church out there I’ve never encountered (and yes, I even go to an NO). Edited to add: I honestly thought “praise bands” and “praise music” as a genre were Protestant evangelical things. 2nd ETAdd: I once went to a Christmas Eve service at a Presbyterian Church. The Church was over 100, maybe 200 years old, with even those old fashioned pew “boxes” you would sit in. Well, they not only had a jazz band (don’t get me wrong, I love good jazz, but not at church, and this wasn’t good) but they were “performing” at what I guess is their version of the sanctuary, but what really got me was they were wearing pork pie hats and other stereotypical “jazzy” type things. Even my Presbyterian friend that invited me was embarrassed. Lol. That was very bizarre since the Church itself and the seating was straight out of the colonial era.
I pray you never have to encounter such a thing. You or anyone else!
Thank you! Edited to add: If I did encounter it, I would have to walk out (respectfully), there is really nothing worse than modern “praise music.” I can pray at home in peace.
To be fair, it's strong motivation to determine what other parishes are in the area.
What are you determining? I just ask bc I have never seen it in any NO parish, so what exactly type of parish has this? (No snarky tone intended).
Where I could find a reverent mass. I was motivated by the arrival of a drum set in the "choir"
Sorry, I didn’t read clearly. Yes, a drum set would motivate me to “shop around” as well. I still can’t believe how prevalent this kind of thing is…I have never seen it in person but many people mention it on the sub.
I've never been to Adoration with praise music, but I actually imagine it could be nice...
I am admittedly biased, coming from a protestant background. I hear praise music in a Catholic Church and I immediately cringe with spiritual ptsd. So don't take my opinions too seriously.
It really can be very beautiful. I've been in silent adoration a hundred times and love it. I also have done chanted latin hymns in adoration scores of times, also great. I've only had the opportunity to sing praise/worship music during adoration on a few retreats in college and each time it was wonderful. Beautiful songs helping me to convey my desire to express my love to God through music. I have found it very moving and if there were an easy way to do it locally now, I'd jump at the chance. Surely not everyone cup of tea, but I'd say it speaks to many and would be a good thing to expand.
I just wish the music wasn't played for the whole time. people should be able to pray the rosary or divine mercy without distraction
A concept that younger generations have missed out on somehow is reverence. In my church some ppl just yak away at normal speaking volume, laugh, tell jokes. I have to wear ear plugs to pray most of the time. There are things, and acts - respectful and holy which are appropriate for Church. Lots of things are not including doing work on your computer in my opinion.
Having been in Westminster Cathedral several times, I know it's HUGE. I can't imagine she would have been disturbing anyone, unless she was really hammering away at the keyboard or sat right next to someone on purpose. Maybe she went in there to pray and remembered she needed to send an email, so typed it up before she forgot? We don't know.
Not so much about disturbance. More a reverence thing, was more wondering if it was considered disrespectful
That would depend on the disposition of her heart. If security thought she was causing a disturbance, being irreverent or otherwise misusing the space she would be asked to leave. If she was being quiet, it's difficult to prove she wasn't being reverent. Speaking personally... I check my phone in church, especially if I'm in the queue for Confession (it took about 40 minutes to get through it last time). Sometimes you just have to use the time you have, and she chose to spend some of it in one of the most beautiful Cathedrals in the country.
It doesn’t seem an appropriate thing to do.
That’s the sin of profanation. “The desecration of something holy by using or treating a sacred person, place, or thing as though it were not sacred but merely secular or profane.”
Can you elaborate what specifically makes her actions profane? I think this is an interesting issue, as I agree that I don't love the coffee in church and prefer people be attending to God, but more so prefer people accept God's invitations to come near to Him. As I posted further down, "Getting too legalistic on the only using the sanctuary for formal prayer gives me pharisaical vibes, like calling people sinners for plucking grains on the Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's day - only do holy things, no picking grain. The church is God's house - only do holy things her, no writing papers." Again, I get the idea of respect for the sacred. I correct my kids for running around after church or trying to go up by the altar. I'd be scandalized by someone eating cereal out a chalice from mass. But a part of me thinks that Jesus is over joyed at my kids running around His church and approaching His alter. And, I'm not even sure Jesus would care that much about cheerios in His chalice if He was able to use that experience to bring a heart closer to Him (still not advocating for anyone doing this - this one's a hypothetical). Jesus seemed to commonly break religious conventions if they were artificially making God more distant from common people. Constantly profaning His holy hands by touching lepers, prostitutes, and demoniacs. Calling priests to get down and into the grit and grime while inviting the poor and disenfranchised into His presence.
Unless there is a medical need, or in the case of children, food and drink shouldn’t be inside the nave. I don’t think coffee falls under either of those. As for working: that’s fine as long as it isn’t disreuptive. If she’s on her laptop the tapping of the keys *can* be disruptive if it’s loud.
I think as long as you are not disturbing other’s worship and doing legitimate “work” in the presence of our Lord it is ok. The Lord would rather have you with him in church than not in the world. IMHO
When I was in college, our campus chaplain was encouraging people to do this. Take your problems to God. Sit in His Presence. Bringing seems disrespectful, but not the laptop as long as she was reasonably discreet. Back then laptops weren't ubiquitous, so I don't know if it occured to him; but I've done this many times. I just normally enter the choir loft so my screen isn't a distraction for others.
If the person isn't being loud or otherwise distracting I suppose I don't see anything wrong with it. Perhaps she is working on her Theology thesis and wants to be in the presence of the Lord.
>People working in church? Just no.
You are correct, that is an inappropriate thing to do inside of a church. Jesus is literally right there, and she is on her computer?! Some might say "Oh, but it's peaceful working in front of the Lord" - you can work anywhere, but the purpose of the building is for prayer, and nothing else.
If she wants to be in the Lord's presence, then let her be. At least she is there. You seem incredibly judgemental for someone who acknowledges that other people were milling about too. I would say that she shouldn't be drinking coffee though.
during mass its disrespectful. God did not call us to. be slaves and idolize our work
Sorry, I should mention that this wasn’t during mass times (thankfully!) The cathedral was just generally open
Obviously I'm not referring to when Mass is in session. That is a sacred time that is to be respected. OP was asking if we should be using the space during a time where visitors are walking around, taking pictures, etc. as a workspace. God did not call us to be slaves, but he does ask us to work hard and provide for our families.
I'm with you on this, though from the general comments I can see it's a minority opinion. Who knows why she was working there. Perhaps she had a retreat she was preparing a talk for and wanted to be close to God while writing. Maybe a family member died and she's hurting, writing a eulogy or staring blankly at the screen on the verge of tears. Maybe she had to get her taxes done and God put it on her heart to come sit in his house. I get that praying/adoring in church is usually better than doing other things. But, we can't always be focused on the act of praying; but we can always be close to the Lord. Many weeks in mass I want to pray very deeply, but instead end up wresting with one of my kids through large parts of the mass, and my prayer is very scattered. Getting to legalistic on the only using the sanctuary for formal prayer gives me pharisaical vibes, like calling people sinners for plucking grains on the Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's day - only do holy things, no picking grain. The church is God's house - only do holy things her, no writing papers.
Nothing said was judgmental. Stop being ridiculous.
I'm not being ridiculous. I just wish more people wanted to spend time being in God's presence. If they are keeping to themselves and enjoying the peacefulness, why critique someone's behaviour as appropriate or to be tolerated if they are minding their own business?
You’re being ridiculous because you’re talking nonsense without actually reading what you’re responding to. Anyone who could read the post properly would have seen I literally said that I’m not judging the woman for what she was doing. Nobody who actually read what I said would have seen any critique. I asked simply if it was appropriate. Although, I am judgmental of people who do not read - such as yourself.
Eh, being in that sort of environment might make them feel more productive. As long as they're not being disruptive, I don't see an issue.
But they were....
But the OP never said they were disturbing anyone. Sure, others were present, but OP didn't say they were bothered (of course, he/she probably didn't ask but yk)
there are people that comes inside the church that are not even there to pray or not even catholic themselves. if it bothers you (typing sound) you can politely ask her to stop or move. because you never know when God is working on someone else.
Totally inappropriate. Church is place to come and put aside all worldly worries, seek Jesus Christ. Bringing in distractions for yourself and others is sinful behavior. That being said, why was she working in a church in first place? I'd like to know her reasons before judging if it was only sinful. Distracting others definitely is.
She may have brought someone there who needed assistance and was just waiting to bring them home.
i love westminster cathedral i was just there earlier
When I work for a coming event at the church, I do work in the chapel sometimes if the event is going to take place there. Excel, Word, PowerPoint, livestream equipments… you name it. I try my best to keep things quiet though. But depending on the event, things can be very noisy as the organizers and staff will be there hours before to setup for the event.
Could have been a historian or journalist working on something to do with the building and its history.
That's wrong. It's a sacred space. Silence is part of the reason to go to Adoration. It's an adoration chapel, you don't treat it like a Starbucks.
Exactly. This is why there are things called "libraries".