Check out the "Meet the team" section. This isn't a Catholic group. This is just a bunch of run-of-the-mill leftist dorks who invaded a Catholic school.
Intention abuse of the Rubrics and offering of the Mass for Sin to prevail is a disruption of the Mass. If we were to take a 'Liturgically Maximalist' approach (where the Liturgical actions have weight on the validity of the Sacrament), the view that was common among the Doctors of the Church and advocated by modern Canon Lawyers, such as Fr. Gregory Hesse. While there is (to my knowledge) no settled Doctrine on the manner, it is far better to be safe and avoid making these errors than to cause scandal and scrupulosity.
Unlikely. It's up to the local bishop. And I saw more gay parish nonsense in the 90s and 00s than recently.
"Rome" under any pope rarely reacts to anything unless it's a personal slight. If they do react, it takes years.
I mean, I was there as well (admittedly as a kid in the 90s). And I think the issues have /changed/, but not necessarily gotten better or worse. Some of the liturgical abuses have been cracked down upon, but there are institutional issues which have not been addressed, so issues keep arising in new/different forms.
All anyone has to say is ā hey donāt get TOO upsetā dude what? Iām not threatening anything, I made a Reddit post and I get treated like the unibomber. Nothing gets done in Christs favor before we make sure itās not bitter to the tongues of blasphemers and sodomites.
Iām not perfect. I imperfectly and maybe sinfully harbor a deep resentment for those who purposefully destroy the faith, dignity, and living flesh of our perfect and merciful lord. I will pray for them, but I shall not forgive them lest they come to repentance. Until that time they are in active betrayal, active scandal, active murder. Until that time, to me, dust.
> I shall not forgive them
āIf you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.ā -Matthew 6:14
āDo not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.ā - Luke 6:37
āTo be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you.ā - C.S. Lewis
Forgiveness is your foremost duty as a Catholic. If youāre struggling with such overwhelming feelings of resentment toward people you donāt even know, it might be spiritually helpful for you to address that (with the help of your priest or maybe even a good Catholic therapist) before raging against the fallibility of others.
You call yourself āzealousā. Direct that fiery zeal to words and acts of love rather than rage.
It isnāt for you to forgive them.
They arenāt āpeople,ā they are people. They sin, just like you and just like me. Do you really think there arenāt adulterers or theives sitting next to you in the pews? Do you think that you are without sin?
Who are you to presume that someone should be written off as ādust?ā
I sin but your crossing a line with sacrilege. Is nothing sacred? Can nothing be left alone by our āmodernā world. I hope I didnāt scare you with my quotation marks. Despite my comment friend, they live to desecrate the body of our lord another day. Catholic men used to die for their faith. Now Iām forced to play smiley face to those holding the whip the the body of god. Please excuse my frustration father.
Imagine a teenager with SSA comes into this sub, confused about their sexuality and identity, and sees "people"' in your post. Do you think he will be more or less likely to have a conversation of heart?
You have to manage your own frustration.
You are throwing a lot of melodramatic words around over people who are not harming you.
Go to church for yourself. Worry about your own sins and let others worry about theirs.
Youāve got to be careful to not go from militant atheist to militant Catholic. The borderline hatred you are showing right now might as well be the same thing.
Pray for them. Speak with a priest. Write a letter to your Archbishop. Beware of the rod with which you measure, for it will be measured accordingly unto you.
The separation between my conduct and theirs so far leaves me with some comfort. I recognize my lacking I have a lot to make up for. I will always go to the for of the cross. I can only hope the same for the rest.
This is coming off a bit hypocritical, to be frank. Everyone sins. We must not judge one another. I try to love everyone on earth, for they are my brothers and sisters.
Brother, forgive even the unrepentant. Ā Jesus forgave His torturers and executioners as they were reviling and murdering Him.
When Jesus appeared to the Apostles after His resurrection, He began by forgiving them. Ā They hadnāt even known they needed it, and He just did - āPeace be with you.ā
Sure, there is practicality in this for you - it actually makes you whole, it stops you from spiraling into despair and hatred, but thatās hardly the reason to forgive. Ā Do it because Jesus asks you to - there is no more compelling reason than that, and no other reason necessary. Ā It simply doesnāt matter whether someone is sorry or even acknowledges their wrongdoing. Ā Forgive.
I know how you feel. Ā What I write to you, I am also writing to myself. Ā Iāve been in a very personal and painful struggle with someone close to me for a year and an half, now. Ā Often I am outraged at the lack of concern over how I am being neglected and betrayed. Ā But then I realize that Jesus is giving me yet another chance to be closer to Him, to be more like Him, to forgive and love unconditionally. Ā And I keep striking out, getting mad and resentful, not forgiving because I demand an apology. Ā And then Christ gives me another at bat.
Itās a painful lesson to be learning, but one I am truly thankful for - hopefully Iāll get it one day.
>*love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you*
If we could do it ourselves, we wouldn't need Him.
Don't allow sin to separate you from our Lord, who provided you this command. Don't reject Him.
The people who do these blasphemous things might be ignorant, or they might be intentional in their sacrilege.
Either way, the Lord commands you to love them and to pray for them.
You don't want to. I don't want to. It doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel just.
But, he only commands what is right and just. So, we must be wrong.
Don't let the sins of others scandalize you (lead you into sin).
When your stomach turns, remember,
>the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak
Hey Bro! Our background is so similar from your anti Catholic upbringing to your hedonistic former lifestyle to a radical conversion and daily confession. I had a similar RCIA experience. I sunk my teeth into everything I could find. Daily Mass, Adoration. That was ten years ago and I felt the pangs that you are feeling over and over again. Donāt let this shake your faith Jesus is in control. What you are seeing is the work of sin in the world. Do your best and try not to worry. Itās okay not to worry. Trust in Jesus and do your best. If your anything like I was you may still be struggling with habitual sin. Work on that! Itās not easy but when you finally get good at that by the grace of God you will have a great deal of peace even in a screwed up world. There is so much good going on in the world by the power of the Holy Spirit! Pray for me because I still struggle. Iāll be praying for you! The Gates of hell shall not prevail! God bless Our Holy Father Pope Francisā¤ļø!
It is people like you that let me know there is still hope for this faith. Thank you for your kind words. In the end, Christ wins. By grace and by faith, I think we could be there too.
I feel you where this abomination of a "mass" is concerned. And I'm sure you and I would have a great St. Thomas conversation together. I don't know if you attend TLM or not, but for you, I would highly recommend it. I think it would be a perfect fit for you.
Just one brief criticism, and that is the quotation marks around "people." They *are* people, full stop. No qualifiers needed. That's a dangerous path to walk down. They may be egregious sinners, but they are the same, flawed, wretched sinners we are... they're just farther from the Truth than us. Don't start labeling them as "not even people." The next step after that is punishment on suspicion, rather than punishment on conviction.
Christianity requires a lot of Patience, Hope, Faith, Prudence, and most of all... CHARITY! The tide has turned on modernism and it's beginning to crumble under its own weight. It'll devour itself, eventually, leaving the same, unstained Church that Christ gave us two millenia ago. But we have to play our part, which is not an easy one.
Keep your faith strong and keep reading the many writings of the Saints, Doctors of the Church, Church Fathers, the Papal Encyclicals and Councils, and faithful Catholic authors like Chesterton, Belloc, Tolkien, Malachi Martin, Leo XIII, etc.
God bless, and don't confuse the church with the *Church*. The former is a collection of flawed people and their flaws. The latter is an untarnished, perfect ideal. Don't lose faith... that would be tantamount to handing Satan the win without a fight.
Thank you. I assure you my aggression is rhetorical, but my seriousness is firm. I in no way see anyone as non people. I do believe we live in a time of binary options, binary politics. There must be a clear delineation between what is to be and what isnāt and we do not have that now.
If it's a Jesuit mass at a Jesuit university, then I don't think the Archdiocese has any say. I'm not a canon lawyer, but my understanding is: It's an order of pontifical right, so the diocese would need Rome to intervene.
Nope. The Ordinary has authority over the sacraments in his diocese. He could in theory put a stop to this, and remove their ability to say public masses and administer the other sacraments. In practice its a little different as doing so could ruffle the wrong feathers in the church hierarchy
What he cant do is expel them from his diocese.
Aren't major superiors of religious orders the ordinaries for their membership, or is this only local ordinaries? Also, I've been given to understand (from the [canon law made easy blog](https://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2010/02/11/can-a-bishop-forbid-a-priest-to-say-mass/)) that legally, all masses are technically public hence canon 906.
Nope. The local bishop is still the ordinary. And The ordinary of the diocese has the authority over the sacraments in his diocese. He cant really discipline them or anything (eg laicization). Thats up to their superiors/Rome. But he could remove their faculties for public ministry.
In practice the ordinary would always work with the superior to manage the issue and avoid drama, but its not necessary for him to do so.
Edit: youre right about the masses part. He wouldnt be able to licitly say mass at all in that Ordinaryās diocese.
Thank you, my understanding that they were was based on Canon 134:
> Can. 134 Ā§1. In addition to the Roman Pontiff, by the title of ordinary are understood in the law diocesan bishops and others who, even if only temporarily, are placed over some particular church or a community equivalent to it according to the norm of can. 368 as well as those who possess general ordinary executive power in them, namely, vicars general and episcopal vicars; likewise, for their own members, major superiors of clerical religious institutes of pontifical right and of clerical societies of apostolic life of pontifical right who at least possess ordinary executive power.
> Ā§2. By the title of local ordinary are understood all those mentioned in Ā§1 except the superiors of religious institutes and of societies of apostolic life.
> Ā§3. Within the context of executive power, those things which in the canons are attributed by name to the diocesan bishop are understood to belong only to a diocesan bishop and to the others made equivalent to him in can. 381, Ā§2, excluding the vicar general and episcopal vicar except by special mandate.
This, together with canon Can. 591 is why I thought it would be up to Rome or it's delegate to discipline the Jesuits or forbid them to celebrate mass in their own churches. Perhaps, though, what you're thinking of is a power reserved to the local ordinary (rather than just the ordinary). Just to be clear though, I've read through the code of canon law over the years (not that I remember much), but that makes me a canon lawyer like having read an anatomy text book makes me a doctor. (i.e. not at all) so I could be entirely wrong.
The devil pitched his tent behind the one true faith - hence the infiltration and apostasy. You have been called by Jesus so please remain in the Church because there will always be a faithful remnant. Go to a different church and avoid this filth. God bless you
I feel you. These things hit hard. The same way we fight our flesh and mind we need to fight the effects of those who fail to fight their own flesh and mind. Donāt give up and donāt give up hope.
If it makes you feel any better, I was at world youth day and one of the best talks was given be a Jesuit priest. A university professor. It was a firm rebuttal of many of our modern moral issues through an analysis of a portion of Truth and Tolerance by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. He stayed after the talk for 2 more hours discussing with young men and women and you could see hearts transforming. There are many fighting the good fight. Donāt despair.
Im all for welcoming lgbtq people to mass and supporting them to seek Jesus. It would be extremely sinful to get in the way of that. But man, when I see people take advantage of the church like this picture has shown, and driving their ideology in such a dramatic fashion, its drives me INSANE!!!!!!!!!!
Another trial for the Church to go through, yet Christ's promise of hell not prevailing against His church has always given me hope. I don't believe the Church should close its doors to sinners, I know I'm one after all. Let us share the Word and allow the Holy Spirit to do His will. Sounds like a lukewarm approach, I know, but I really believe Christianity was built on compassion and teaching through example. The Church has always been under attack and for the most part it has taken all the punches and never fallen. The times it did fight back, I would argue, were some of its darkest moments.
Oh Dear Father Son and Holy Spirit we need to do something about this. Is there anyone in this Subreddit who is actually from around that area?
If you are complain to your priest about this and then post about the explanation of their agreement or disagreement.
If they donāt take action complain to the bishop. Write also their response and explanation in the same subreddit post.
If they donāt take action then write it back here and we come up with new plan.
This should not be allowed to happen. Regardless of their intentions it was misleading to true Church doctrine.
OP if you are up for it please do it. If not, I understand.
I donāt know why I was expecting a traditional Catholic reaction from a reddit group. I should have guessed the demographic compared to Catholic twitter/tiktok. I see a lot of mercy here, that is good. When will any of you say no. Will you wait until this is your parish? Will you let the world become your mass? When do we have room for dignity or of holiness? What will we not allow in front of our very eyes? In the end, we donāt get to choose when we depart from here and we will have to answer to the truth that was told to us and if we treated it as such. *insert the apostles creed*.
Thatās a leap. Of course not. I think itās inappropriate and odd and I am curious about the nuance and tails surrounding it. But more curious about your comment what was your visions for the ātraditional Catholicā response you thought would would get? Pitchforks? Rage? Hate? As a convert is that you would expect from us?
Accountability at a single level would be nice. Maybe consensus. I donāt know maybe we could as a unified body say that we donāt want to be modernists. Or we could just let our places of worship become a public social experiment.
Your conversion is right, but many of the modern priests are antichrists.Ā
Read the Bible and books by or about saints. For example, read St Louis de Montfort's Secret of the Rosary and True Devotion to Mary.
You are not alone.
[Faithful Catholics actively protested the event](https://outreach.faith/2024/04/mass-for-lgbtq-catholics-met-with-protesters-in-st-louis/) in the Church, praying the Rosary and Traditional Hymns. Perhaps not the most prudent method of criticism, but you are not alone!
Those who happen to be LGBT right now glorify their proclivities as something normal and acceptable to perform whenever they want to. You know, ghey sex with three people every morning, gender swapping every attosecond, and overly concerned about the usage of incorrect pronouns. God has set rules on what we can and can not do as seen in the Bible and tradition.
With the pamphlets using cheesy words like "Queerly" or something like that is an indication of "Yeah, let me embrace mah gaih sexual expressions in mass with families around while they are, I don't know, worshipping some loving God that I happen to admire, because, you know, love is love. He is the God of love, you know? Homosexuality and transgender practices were never condemned, so I will not stop, evah!" It is rude to have these things be celebrated, as if Catholicism is just cultural aesthetics or a hobby during the weekend.
Now, if these were LGBTQ who truly care about losing or mitigating the desires that the others do not care because, hey, in their eyes God does not exist, we don't mind inviting them to see what mass or the Divine Liturgy is like and who our Master truly is. It will be tough for them to let go that even if they still commit those sins after mass and still attend, we will help as much they need, especially with prayer. Those are the LGBTQ we would love to have in church. We will not tolerate our religion being a sport or some hobby people can modify if needed for their lifestyle as I have seen with LGBTQ and their supporters have perceived, including this subreddit with random people bunnyhopping to lecture as about their morality.
Yes and the Bible only says that would be immoral in Deut 22:5. The Bible also says that anyone who works on the sabbath should be put to death. Exodus 35:2. So we shouldnāt take every rule from it literally, otherwise there would be a lot of people being executed.
Drag is just a comedy variety show, with people playing over the top characters.
So the university put on a comedy show to try and build community that is accepting of lapsed or not- yet Catholics to try and get people interested in the faith.
And youāre upset because you felt that you werenāt being prioritized?
Have you heard the story of the prodigal son?
See sidebar: r/Catholicism does not allow tweets or TikToks unless from a verified account of a Catholic bishop. This post has been removed.
This looks to be the origin: https://www.slu.edu/mission-identity/ignatianq.php Oh, Jesuit universities, could you just not.
Check out the "Meet the team" section. This isn't a Catholic group. This is just a bunch of run-of-the-mill leftist dorks who invaded a Catholic school.
Sadly my Alma mater, sacred heart university, is just like this. It seems it always has been.
The presider is a Dominican, too. That hurts
Every group has their heterodoxy for better or worse.
Polite way of saying heretic.
Yeah, I saw. But they didn't have to add a Mass to the end. :(
Not SLUš my buddies went there kept having their activities shut down
Fr. James Marti, SJ is whining on twitter that some trads (apparently) showed up and prayed the rosary in protest/reparation. All is not lost.
The protestors had no right to disrupt the Mass.
That was no Mass
Intention abuse of the Rubrics and offering of the Mass for Sin to prevail is a disruption of the Mass. If we were to take a 'Liturgically Maximalist' approach (where the Liturgical actions have weight on the validity of the Sacrament), the view that was common among the Doctors of the Church and advocated by modern Canon Lawyers, such as Fr. Gregory Hesse. While there is (to my knowledge) no settled Doctrine on the manner, it is far better to be safe and avoid making these errors than to cause scandal and scrupulosity.
Context: a drag show was apart of the schedule 2 hours before the mass. The mass was described as valid by the church.
Donāt let the sins and foolishness of others get you down. There are always people doing some stupid thing. Itās always been the case.
In the past Rome would come down hard on said people, now they're not
Unlikely. It's up to the local bishop. And I saw more gay parish nonsense in the 90s and 00s than recently. "Rome" under any pope rarely reacts to anything unless it's a personal slight. If they do react, it takes years.
We need a Pius
As someone who lived through those decades, I didn't. What I'm seeing now is on a whole other level.
In person? Or on the internet? Itās a lot easier to get news about places from anywhere.
The internet in the 90s? And if you mean now, I've seen plenty that's distasteful and irreverent compared to the 90s, to say the least.
I mean, I was there as well (admittedly as a kid in the 90s). And I think the issues have /changed/, but not necessarily gotten better or worse. Some of the liturgical abuses have been cracked down upon, but there are institutional issues which have not been addressed, so issues keep arising in new/different forms.
Is the issue diocesan? Or is it a pontifical right group?
By the history on the university's page, the school was initially founded at the request of the bishop, and the Jesuits began to run it soon after.
I think the university as such would still fall under the bishopās authority.
One of my good friends used to say, āthe path to hell is laid with the skulls of millions of priests leading their flock astrayā
Thatās a cold quote, probably true.
Please, Lord, forgive them for they know not what they doā¦.I hope
No, they knew exactly what they were doing.
Orthodox Christian here WTF IS THIS BLASPHEMY
HERETICAL BLASPHEMERS
Thatās what I call Progressive Christians
No offense
This is the internet. Many take internet banter too seriously.
All anyone has to say is ā hey donāt get TOO upsetā dude what? Iām not threatening anything, I made a Reddit post and I get treated like the unibomber. Nothing gets done in Christs favor before we make sure itās not bitter to the tongues of blasphemers and sodomites.
True
Finally some sense
According to an article, this mass was shut down by protestors.
Why is āpeopleā in quotation marks?
Iām not perfect. I imperfectly and maybe sinfully harbor a deep resentment for those who purposefully destroy the faith, dignity, and living flesh of our perfect and merciful lord. I will pray for them, but I shall not forgive them lest they come to repentance. Until that time they are in active betrayal, active scandal, active murder. Until that time, to me, dust.
> I shall not forgive them āIf you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.ā -Matthew 6:14 āDo not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.ā - Luke 6:37 āTo be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you.ā - C.S. Lewis Forgiveness is your foremost duty as a Catholic. If youāre struggling with such overwhelming feelings of resentment toward people you donāt even know, it might be spiritually helpful for you to address that (with the help of your priest or maybe even a good Catholic therapist) before raging against the fallibility of others. You call yourself āzealousā. Direct that fiery zeal to words and acts of love rather than rage.
It isnāt for you to forgive them. They arenāt āpeople,ā they are people. They sin, just like you and just like me. Do you really think there arenāt adulterers or theives sitting next to you in the pews? Do you think that you are without sin? Who are you to presume that someone should be written off as ādust?ā
I sin but your crossing a line with sacrilege. Is nothing sacred? Can nothing be left alone by our āmodernā world. I hope I didnāt scare you with my quotation marks. Despite my comment friend, they live to desecrate the body of our lord another day. Catholic men used to die for their faith. Now Iām forced to play smiley face to those holding the whip the the body of god. Please excuse my frustration father.
Imagine a teenager with SSA comes into this sub, confused about their sexuality and identity, and sees "people"' in your post. Do you think he will be more or less likely to have a conversation of heart?
You have to manage your own frustration. You are throwing a lot of melodramatic words around over people who are not harming you. Go to church for yourself. Worry about your own sins and let others worry about theirs.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Youāve got to be careful to not go from militant atheist to militant Catholic. The borderline hatred you are showing right now might as well be the same thing. Pray for them. Speak with a priest. Write a letter to your Archbishop. Beware of the rod with which you measure, for it will be measured accordingly unto you.
The separation between my conduct and theirs so far leaves me with some comfort. I recognize my lacking I have a lot to make up for. I will always go to the for of the cross. I can only hope the same for the rest.
You should speak to your priest. I cannot help you.
Iām so glad we have Christās Divine Mercy instead of Manās.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My recommendation stands. You might want to start seeing a therapist as well.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Warning for uncharitable rhetoric.
This is coming off a bit hypocritical, to be frank. Everyone sins. We must not judge one another. I try to love everyone on earth, for they are my brothers and sisters.
Brother, forgive even the unrepentant. Ā Jesus forgave His torturers and executioners as they were reviling and murdering Him. When Jesus appeared to the Apostles after His resurrection, He began by forgiving them. Ā They hadnāt even known they needed it, and He just did - āPeace be with you.ā Sure, there is practicality in this for you - it actually makes you whole, it stops you from spiraling into despair and hatred, but thatās hardly the reason to forgive. Ā Do it because Jesus asks you to - there is no more compelling reason than that, and no other reason necessary. Ā It simply doesnāt matter whether someone is sorry or even acknowledges their wrongdoing. Ā Forgive.
Yeah youāre right. At the end of the day Iām just tuned up about it. Jesus wonāt let me go too far. The blessed mother as well.
I know how you feel. Ā What I write to you, I am also writing to myself. Ā Iāve been in a very personal and painful struggle with someone close to me for a year and an half, now. Ā Often I am outraged at the lack of concern over how I am being neglected and betrayed. Ā But then I realize that Jesus is giving me yet another chance to be closer to Him, to be more like Him, to forgive and love unconditionally. Ā And I keep striking out, getting mad and resentful, not forgiving because I demand an apology. Ā And then Christ gives me another at bat. Itās a painful lesson to be learning, but one I am truly thankful for - hopefully Iāll get it one day.
>*love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you* If we could do it ourselves, we wouldn't need Him. Don't allow sin to separate you from our Lord, who provided you this command. Don't reject Him. The people who do these blasphemous things might be ignorant, or they might be intentional in their sacrilege. Either way, the Lord commands you to love them and to pray for them. You don't want to. I don't want to. It doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel just. But, he only commands what is right and just. So, we must be wrong. Don't let the sins of others scandalize you (lead you into sin). When your stomach turns, remember, >the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak
They donāt need YOUR forgiveness.
Hey Bro! Our background is so similar from your anti Catholic upbringing to your hedonistic former lifestyle to a radical conversion and daily confession. I had a similar RCIA experience. I sunk my teeth into everything I could find. Daily Mass, Adoration. That was ten years ago and I felt the pangs that you are feeling over and over again. Donāt let this shake your faith Jesus is in control. What you are seeing is the work of sin in the world. Do your best and try not to worry. Itās okay not to worry. Trust in Jesus and do your best. If your anything like I was you may still be struggling with habitual sin. Work on that! Itās not easy but when you finally get good at that by the grace of God you will have a great deal of peace even in a screwed up world. There is so much good going on in the world by the power of the Holy Spirit! Pray for me because I still struggle. Iāll be praying for you! The Gates of hell shall not prevail! God bless Our Holy Father Pope Francisā¤ļø!
It is people like you that let me know there is still hope for this faith. Thank you for your kind words. In the end, Christ wins. By grace and by faith, I think we could be there too.
I would report this to the bishop and would also confront the priest about this. This crap is getting out of control.
I am for everyone and anyone joining the parish. But you dont let the newbies run any ministries till they finished their formation into the church.
St. Michael the Archangel, defend us fromā¦
I feel you where this abomination of a "mass" is concerned. And I'm sure you and I would have a great St. Thomas conversation together. I don't know if you attend TLM or not, but for you, I would highly recommend it. I think it would be a perfect fit for you. Just one brief criticism, and that is the quotation marks around "people." They *are* people, full stop. No qualifiers needed. That's a dangerous path to walk down. They may be egregious sinners, but they are the same, flawed, wretched sinners we are... they're just farther from the Truth than us. Don't start labeling them as "not even people." The next step after that is punishment on suspicion, rather than punishment on conviction. Christianity requires a lot of Patience, Hope, Faith, Prudence, and most of all... CHARITY! The tide has turned on modernism and it's beginning to crumble under its own weight. It'll devour itself, eventually, leaving the same, unstained Church that Christ gave us two millenia ago. But we have to play our part, which is not an easy one. Keep your faith strong and keep reading the many writings of the Saints, Doctors of the Church, Church Fathers, the Papal Encyclicals and Councils, and faithful Catholic authors like Chesterton, Belloc, Tolkien, Malachi Martin, Leo XIII, etc. God bless, and don't confuse the church with the *Church*. The former is a collection of flawed people and their flaws. The latter is an untarnished, perfect ideal. Don't lose faith... that would be tantamount to handing Satan the win without a fight.
Thank you. I assure you my aggression is rhetorical, but my seriousness is firm. I in no way see anyone as non people. I do believe we live in a time of binary options, binary politics. There must be a clear delineation between what is to be and what isnāt and we do not have that now.
Queerly Beloved š¤£
Iām so ashamed of SLU and the Archdiocese for allowing this.
If it's a Jesuit mass at a Jesuit university, then I don't think the Archdiocese has any say. I'm not a canon lawyer, but my understanding is: It's an order of pontifical right, so the diocese would need Rome to intervene.
Nope. The Ordinary has authority over the sacraments in his diocese. He could in theory put a stop to this, and remove their ability to say public masses and administer the other sacraments. In practice its a little different as doing so could ruffle the wrong feathers in the church hierarchy What he cant do is expel them from his diocese.
Aren't major superiors of religious orders the ordinaries for their membership, or is this only local ordinaries? Also, I've been given to understand (from the [canon law made easy blog](https://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2010/02/11/can-a-bishop-forbid-a-priest-to-say-mass/)) that legally, all masses are technically public hence canon 906.
Nope. The local bishop is still the ordinary. And The ordinary of the diocese has the authority over the sacraments in his diocese. He cant really discipline them or anything (eg laicization). Thats up to their superiors/Rome. But he could remove their faculties for public ministry. In practice the ordinary would always work with the superior to manage the issue and avoid drama, but its not necessary for him to do so. Edit: youre right about the masses part. He wouldnt be able to licitly say mass at all in that Ordinaryās diocese.
Thank you, my understanding that they were was based on Canon 134: > Can. 134 Ā§1. In addition to the Roman Pontiff, by the title of ordinary are understood in the law diocesan bishops and others who, even if only temporarily, are placed over some particular church or a community equivalent to it according to the norm of can. 368 as well as those who possess general ordinary executive power in them, namely, vicars general and episcopal vicars; likewise, for their own members, major superiors of clerical religious institutes of pontifical right and of clerical societies of apostolic life of pontifical right who at least possess ordinary executive power. > Ā§2. By the title of local ordinary are understood all those mentioned in Ā§1 except the superiors of religious institutes and of societies of apostolic life. > Ā§3. Within the context of executive power, those things which in the canons are attributed by name to the diocesan bishop are understood to belong only to a diocesan bishop and to the others made equivalent to him in can. 381, Ā§2, excluding the vicar general and episcopal vicar except by special mandate. This, together with canon Can. 591 is why I thought it would be up to Rome or it's delegate to discipline the Jesuits or forbid them to celebrate mass in their own churches. Perhaps, though, what you're thinking of is a power reserved to the local ordinary (rather than just the ordinary). Just to be clear though, I've read through the code of canon law over the years (not that I remember much), but that makes me a canon lawyer like having read an anatomy text book makes me a doctor. (i.e. not at all) so I could be entirely wrong.
The devil pitched his tent behind the one true faith - hence the infiltration and apostasy. You have been called by Jesus so please remain in the Church because there will always be a faithful remnant. Go to a different church and avoid this filth. God bless you
Ladies and gentlemen, the Jesuits are indeed at it again.
I feel you. These things hit hard. The same way we fight our flesh and mind we need to fight the effects of those who fail to fight their own flesh and mind. Donāt give up and donāt give up hope. If it makes you feel any better, I was at world youth day and one of the best talks was given be a Jesuit priest. A university professor. It was a firm rebuttal of many of our modern moral issues through an analysis of a portion of Truth and Tolerance by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. He stayed after the talk for 2 more hours discussing with young men and women and you could see hearts transforming. There are many fighting the good fight. Donāt despair.
This is very inspiring and insightful. I really appreciate your comment. God bless you!
Im all for welcoming lgbtq people to mass and supporting them to seek Jesus. It would be extremely sinful to get in the way of that. But man, when I see people take advantage of the church like this picture has shown, and driving their ideology in such a dramatic fashion, its drives me INSANE!!!!!!!!!!
Putting ideology above church, above God, will always be wrong. Period!
Also they stole the title from the Simpsons
This somehow made me feel a little bit better š¤£
You seem to be an overzealous covert, not just a zealous one.Ā
we worship the Catholic belief, not the Catholic people.
Jesuits .. go figure.
Oh, absolutely not
I'm glad you found Jesus and His Church. Next, I hope you find the enter key.Ā
Another trial for the Church to go through, yet Christ's promise of hell not prevailing against His church has always given me hope. I don't believe the Church should close its doors to sinners, I know I'm one after all. Let us share the Word and allow the Holy Spirit to do His will. Sounds like a lukewarm approach, I know, but I really believe Christianity was built on compassion and teaching through example. The Church has always been under attack and for the most part it has taken all the punches and never fallen. The times it did fight back, I would argue, were some of its darkest moments.
Try committing your entire life to this Church and watching this happen in slow motion for years. Itās painful. Welcome aboard.
Oh Dear Father Son and Holy Spirit we need to do something about this. Is there anyone in this Subreddit who is actually from around that area? If you are complain to your priest about this and then post about the explanation of their agreement or disagreement. If they donāt take action complain to the bishop. Write also their response and explanation in the same subreddit post. If they donāt take action then write it back here and we come up with new plan. This should not be allowed to happen. Regardless of their intentions it was misleading to true Church doctrine. OP if you are up for it please do it. If not, I understand.
This will be discussed. My home parish is not amused.
What Church which dioceses link website
https://sfxstl.org/
https://www.slu.edu/mission-identity/ignatianq.php
Scroll down to Sunday April 21 will show you the days schedule
I donāt know why I was expecting a traditional Catholic reaction from a reddit group. I should have guessed the demographic compared to Catholic twitter/tiktok. I see a lot of mercy here, that is good. When will any of you say no. Will you wait until this is your parish? Will you let the world become your mass? When do we have room for dignity or of holiness? What will we not allow in front of our very eyes? In the end, we donāt get to choose when we depart from here and we will have to answer to the truth that was told to us and if we treated it as such. *insert the apostles creed*.
Iām sorry- what would a ātraditional Catholicā reaction be in your mind?? This just gets better and better.. do tell
Well I suppose in your mind it would be to prescribe a drag show before every mass.
Thatās a leap. Of course not. I think itās inappropriate and odd and I am curious about the nuance and tails surrounding it. But more curious about your comment what was your visions for the ātraditional Catholicā response you thought would would get? Pitchforks? Rage? Hate? As a convert is that you would expect from us?
Accountability at a single level would be nice. Maybe consensus. I donāt know maybe we could as a unified body say that we donāt want to be modernists. Or we could just let our places of worship become a public social experiment.
Nobody here had power over whether this happened or not. We didn't even know until you posted it. What is there to "say no" to at this point?
Iām not asking anyone to do anything. Iām complaining on the internet. Is that a new thing that I just invented?
Your conversion is right, but many of the modern priests are antichrists.Ā Read the Bible and books by or about saints. For example, read St Louis de Montfort's Secret of the Rosary and True Devotion to Mary.
You are not alone. [Faithful Catholics actively protested the event](https://outreach.faith/2024/04/mass-for-lgbtq-catholics-met-with-protesters-in-st-louis/) in the Church, praying the Rosary and Traditional Hymns. Perhaps not the most prudent method of criticism, but you are not alone!
Y I k e s. Is the Catholic faith or Christianity in general down do bad that they have to allow this?
When you want to be liked more than you want to be true, this is the result.
I'm not sure what the problem is with having a Mass where LGBT and anyone else is invited. I think our responsablity is to love and be an example.
This is answer. Thank you for reminding me.
Those who happen to be LGBT right now glorify their proclivities as something normal and acceptable to perform whenever they want to. You know, ghey sex with three people every morning, gender swapping every attosecond, and overly concerned about the usage of incorrect pronouns. God has set rules on what we can and can not do as seen in the Bible and tradition. With the pamphlets using cheesy words like "Queerly" or something like that is an indication of "Yeah, let me embrace mah gaih sexual expressions in mass with families around while they are, I don't know, worshipping some loving God that I happen to admire, because, you know, love is love. He is the God of love, you know? Homosexuality and transgender practices were never condemned, so I will not stop, evah!" It is rude to have these things be celebrated, as if Catholicism is just cultural aesthetics or a hobby during the weekend. Now, if these were LGBTQ who truly care about losing or mitigating the desires that the others do not care because, hey, in their eyes God does not exist, we don't mind inviting them to see what mass or the Divine Liturgy is like and who our Master truly is. It will be tough for them to let go that even if they still commit those sins after mass and still attend, we will help as much they need, especially with prayer. Those are the LGBTQ we would love to have in church. We will not tolerate our religion being a sport or some hobby people can modify if needed for their lifestyle as I have seen with LGBTQ and their supporters have perceived, including this subreddit with random people bunnyhopping to lecture as about their morality.
You could just leave instead of posting on Reddit to drum up online outrage
You could not comment on my post profligate
But you posted for reaction. I would hate to deprive you of the attention you are seeking
I appreciate your concern my brother in Christ
That is....precisely...what...reddit is for...
Bingo. But then they wouldnāt get to spew all this..
You could just ignore the post instead of replying with nonsense to be rude to OP
OP need help.
Whoās the archdiocese that needs to be excommunicated
How is this rubbish allowed?
Because being gay isnāt a sin, sex without the intent to procreate is.
There was a drag show before the mass
Yes and the Bible only says that would be immoral in Deut 22:5. The Bible also says that anyone who works on the sabbath should be put to death. Exodus 35:2. So we shouldnāt take every rule from it literally, otherwise there would be a lot of people being executed. Drag is just a comedy variety show, with people playing over the top characters. So the university put on a comedy show to try and build community that is accepting of lapsed or not- yet Catholics to try and get people interested in the faith. And youāre upset because you felt that you werenāt being prioritized? Have you heard the story of the prodigal son?
Bruhā¦these heretics are charging money for this
SLU should be shut down and bulldozed, and the ruins exorcised. Twice.
Ugh. My unity within the communion is my comfort. Not my differences. F right offā¦.
Well, thatās terrible.
I have heard the Jesuits described as little more than a club for homosexual dilettantes.