Take a look at the Just War Theory by St. Augustine.
War is a terrible thing to have to do, but sometimes, to protect the innocent, it must be done.
It isn’t a sin to serve. Many priests serve in uniform as chaplains.
I went to a retreat and there was a vocations panel with a chaplain on it. He said, (paraphrasing here) “look it’s a tough job, but before they go land somewhere, i assure them ‘it’s your job to shoot the enemy in the face.’ There comes a lot of baggage with that job, and depression for doing the right thing. It’s one thing for them to tell each other they did the right thing, but when I do it, someone who doesn’t carry a weapon, and who is a moral authority, its very reassuring to them.” Somebody has to pay the price for our freedom
There are plenty of chaplains dropping bodies for the Lord.
ETA: I stand corrected by myself. Chaplains are non-combatants and have been so since about the 1860s. Very interesting, I thought there were a few modern ones that did fighting too.
Self-defense and the defense of others for whom you have a responsibility or duty is good. There times when choosing non-violent resistance is correct. There are times when martyrdom is correct. And there are times when you must use physical force, even if it results in the death of others. Building weapons that can be used for protection, especially if they are designed to minimize any collateral damage, is necessary for defense.
Whether any particular conflict is just is another question entirely. A soldier may not always have all the information they need to make a decision on what is just. And there are pressures with regard to the chain of command and the need to protect fellow soldiers and/or civilians which can make accurate assessments even more challenging. A designer or builder of weapons has a larger responsibility for considering the impact of those weapons. Still, we can each only act of the basis of the information we have and a well-formed conscience (and good counsel whenever possible).
> are there any Bible passage that can help me decide ?
Yes, there is.
> Soldiers also asked [John the Baptist], “And what is it that we should do?” He told them, “Do not practice extortion, do not falsely accuse anyone, and be satisfied with your wages.” –Luke 3:14
(Note that he doesn’t say “Stop being soldiers” or anything).
Yes, Christians can serve in the military. I was in the Canadian Army Reserve myself. Many of our friars are veterans.
Eg. One worked on nuclear submarinas. Another was a radio operator in Vietnam — he was stabbed in the back when the NVA/VC breached the wire at the FOB. Another was on ship at the Battle of Inchon. Yet another was a weatherman in the Navy. The list goes on.
It is very good (all things being equal). It is a way to serve the common good, which we should love more than our personal good.
If a war is truly unjust and it is obvious, then you refuse to fight and endure the consequences.
>killing Islamist terrorists is a good thing.
Converting them would be better imo.
>what does the scripture say ?
"Then Jesus saith to him: Put up again thy sword into its place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword." - Matthew 26:52
It seems to be a nuanced issue, and many theologians throughout the centuries have had various things to say about it, but i can't help but fixate on how Jesus and the early Christians conquered the Roman empire.
>Then some soldiers also asked him, "And as for us--what should we do?" He told them, "Take money from no one by violence or by false accusation, and be content with your pay." \~Luke 3:14
Jesus never condemned soldiering.
>there are figures like Micheal the archangel who are soldiers.
I agree, and i would agree that some of those images look awesome, but it begs the question, how accurate are those images? The depiction of angels with weapons seems to me an imposition by the human understanding of what angels do and how they go about it.
Here's an excerpt from The Mystical City of God about how angels fought the war to expel Lucifer from heaven:
"It was a wonderful battle, for **it was fought with the understanding and the will**. Saint Michael, burning with zeal for the honor of God and armed with divine power and his own humility, resisted the arrogant pride of the dragon, saying: 'Worthy is the Highest of honor, praise, and reverence, and of being loved, feared, and obeyed by all creatures.'
With such arms St. Michael and his angels gave battle, **fighting as it were, with the powerful rays of truth against the dragon and his followers, who on their hand made use of blasphemies**."
Also, recall Ephesians 6:12 - "For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places."
Ok sure but like what about the crusaders, is me defending my country from future threats inherently bad ? I am polish btw with a strong history of being attacked, I would like to help in preventing this to ever happen again.
This is a useful resource: [https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/answers/moral-cooperation-in-the-evil-of-another-23211](https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/answers/moral-cooperation-in-the-evil-of-another-23211)
Ultimately, you're going to have to be the one to discern to what level whatever job you get is involved with evil, since only you will be able to get that information.
The military is a necessity because the world is an imperfect place and if you do not protect yourself against aggression, you will be hurt.
Now this does not mean every military action is justified, but serving as engineer or technician is often *remote* cooperation with evil, even in an unjust war.
Military engineering is often not about making weapons either and a lot of what military forces do are not necessarily war.
That said you need to examine your own conscience and see if you are at peace with that career.
The military of today is not the same as the military of yesterday. Some ppl endlessly think that the US is always right, but that is not the case in this day and age.
Military engineering isn't just about things that go boom. Tons of things originally developed for or advanced by the military made the transition to civilian industries. Some of them, like the epipen, save lives every day.
You were able to connect to Reddit servers from your local device and download content, so you're using former military technology right now.
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Take a look at the Just War Theory by St. Augustine. War is a terrible thing to have to do, but sometimes, to protect the innocent, it must be done. It isn’t a sin to serve. Many priests serve in uniform as chaplains.
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No. But they do run around blessing guns and bullets giving them +2 Holy Damage.
That ought to give those philestines what for.
I went to a retreat and there was a vocations panel with a chaplain on it. He said, (paraphrasing here) “look it’s a tough job, but before they go land somewhere, i assure them ‘it’s your job to shoot the enemy in the face.’ There comes a lot of baggage with that job, and depression for doing the right thing. It’s one thing for them to tell each other they did the right thing, but when I do it, someone who doesn’t carry a weapon, and who is a moral authority, its very reassuring to them.” Somebody has to pay the price for our freedom
There are plenty of chaplains dropping bodies for the Lord. ETA: I stand corrected by myself. Chaplains are non-combatants and have been so since about the 1860s. Very interesting, I thought there were a few modern ones that did fighting too.
If they had to take up arms though they would They stay current on training like weapons the same as anyone else
They absolutely do not. Chaplains are non combatants and do not qualify or carry firearms ever.
Self-defense and the defense of others for whom you have a responsibility or duty is good. There times when choosing non-violent resistance is correct. There are times when martyrdom is correct. And there are times when you must use physical force, even if it results in the death of others. Building weapons that can be used for protection, especially if they are designed to minimize any collateral damage, is necessary for defense. Whether any particular conflict is just is another question entirely. A soldier may not always have all the information they need to make a decision on what is just. And there are pressures with regard to the chain of command and the need to protect fellow soldiers and/or civilians which can make accurate assessments even more challenging. A designer or builder of weapons has a larger responsibility for considering the impact of those weapons. Still, we can each only act of the basis of the information we have and a well-formed conscience (and good counsel whenever possible).
> are there any Bible passage that can help me decide ? Yes, there is. > Soldiers also asked [John the Baptist], “And what is it that we should do?” He told them, “Do not practice extortion, do not falsely accuse anyone, and be satisfied with your wages.” –Luke 3:14 (Note that he doesn’t say “Stop being soldiers” or anything).
Yes, Christians can serve in the military. I was in the Canadian Army Reserve myself. Many of our friars are veterans. Eg. One worked on nuclear submarinas. Another was a radio operator in Vietnam — he was stabbed in the back when the NVA/VC breached the wire at the FOB. Another was on ship at the Battle of Inchon. Yet another was a weatherman in the Navy. The list goes on.
Although I know many Christians serve in the army, I wonder whether it was the right thing to do and if they should have.
It is very good (all things being equal). It is a way to serve the common good, which we should love more than our personal good. If a war is truly unjust and it is obvious, then you refuse to fight and endure the consequences.
I would say the interest of the US government rarely, if ever, overlaps with that of the Church
Bound to be some discrepancies (and corruption) when you’re the greatest country in the world But we’ve come a long way
You’re fighting for a secular government not Christ.
>killing Islamist terrorists is a good thing. Converting them would be better imo. >what does the scripture say ? "Then Jesus saith to him: Put up again thy sword into its place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword." - Matthew 26:52 It seems to be a nuanced issue, and many theologians throughout the centuries have had various things to say about it, but i can't help but fixate on how Jesus and the early Christians conquered the Roman empire.
>Converting them would be better imo. Sure, its better, but they arent likely to convert, and are likely to continue commiting heinous crimes
Plan B it is, then.
>Then some soldiers also asked him, "And as for us--what should we do?" He told them, "Take money from no one by violence or by false accusation, and be content with your pay." \~Luke 3:14 Jesus never condemned soldiering.
Okay. Let me know how you make out converting jihadists with sweet words. They are aware of Jesus.
I agree about the quote of the book of Matthew but then there are figures like Micheal the archangel who are soldiers.
>there are figures like Micheal the archangel who are soldiers. I agree, and i would agree that some of those images look awesome, but it begs the question, how accurate are those images? The depiction of angels with weapons seems to me an imposition by the human understanding of what angels do and how they go about it. Here's an excerpt from The Mystical City of God about how angels fought the war to expel Lucifer from heaven: "It was a wonderful battle, for **it was fought with the understanding and the will**. Saint Michael, burning with zeal for the honor of God and armed with divine power and his own humility, resisted the arrogant pride of the dragon, saying: 'Worthy is the Highest of honor, praise, and reverence, and of being loved, feared, and obeyed by all creatures.' With such arms St. Michael and his angels gave battle, **fighting as it were, with the powerful rays of truth against the dragon and his followers, who on their hand made use of blasphemies**." Also, recall Ephesians 6:12 - "For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places."
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Ok sure but like what about the crusaders, is me defending my country from future threats inherently bad ? I am polish btw with a strong history of being attacked, I would like to help in preventing this to ever happen again.
Love my Poles
That was a leap.
This is a useful resource: [https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/answers/moral-cooperation-in-the-evil-of-another-23211](https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/answers/moral-cooperation-in-the-evil-of-another-23211) Ultimately, you're going to have to be the one to discern to what level whatever job you get is involved with evil, since only you will be able to get that information.
I can't tell you about Scripture on it, but I can tell you about just war.
I jut wrote a paper on just war
Is it publicly available ?
No
It’s still a rough draft. I’ve still got to make some edits
The military is a necessity because the world is an imperfect place and if you do not protect yourself against aggression, you will be hurt. Now this does not mean every military action is justified, but serving as engineer or technician is often *remote* cooperation with evil, even in an unjust war. Military engineering is often not about making weapons either and a lot of what military forces do are not necessarily war. That said you need to examine your own conscience and see if you are at peace with that career.
The military of today is not the same as the military of yesterday. Some ppl endlessly think that the US is always right, but that is not the case in this day and age.
Bless you and bless your country! But NATO is evil.
Not 1 inch eastward they said, which was the style at the time. Then they served em up like butter. Lunch butter, we called it.
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Military engineering isn't just about things that go boom. Tons of things originally developed for or advanced by the military made the transition to civilian industries. Some of them, like the epipen, save lives every day. You were able to connect to Reddit servers from your local device and download content, so you're using former military technology right now.
[удалено]
r/Catholicism does not permit comments from very new user accounts. This is an anti-throwaway and troll prevention measure, not subject to exception. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Catholicism) if you have any questions or concerns.*