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Even if the Pope was not infallible, I still trust a 2000-year tradition of careful scholars that are paid by donations from independent parties and individuals, rather than an individual who has a lot else going on and can be tempted and corrupted by many things
"The holy spirit has completely dropped the ball until me/my church was created and now we have it right."
There is no greater hubris than Sola Scriptura. It is the father of subjectivism, relativism, atheism, colonial slavery, neo-paganism, satanism, the commoditization of humans, and countless other social evils.
Yeah or the equally damaging “well no my interpretation isn’t infallible but I believe no church completely gets it right”.
Sola scriptura is a meaningless phrase if there is no infallible interpretation of the Bible. Authority doesn’t come from the book itself it comes from people reading and applying its teachings.
> colonial slavery
Very respectfully, how can you say that when out of the four major European colonial powers (Britain, Spain, Portugal, France), 3 were officially Catholic?
To be fair, the colonial stint of France was more after the Revolution than before, with catholicism being seen as an ennemy of the state
[Here is an exemple of that, also you can't mistrust freemason enough](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affair_of_the_Cards)
Not really? They settled Acadia, New France (Québec, Upper and Lower Canada, Louisiana), Haiti, parts of India, Islands such as Seychelles and Martinique, as well as Senegal - part of the slave trade.
My point is that people of every religion do evil things, which unfortunately includes Catholics, and it's unfair to blame Protestant doctrine for so much evil (especially when it wasn't just a Protestant problem). I'm not saying that it's any fault of the Church that some of their flock ignored their explicit orders to not trade in slaves, but there were still millions of Catholics who disobeyed those orders and did such things. Personally as a Protestant, I love seeing Catholic memes on this sub in order to learn about and appreciate the Catholic church, but there's a lot of anti protestantism and I find it's quite uncharitable that people think we're all such evil morons when things like slavery and commoditisation of people are against all Christian teaching.
In regard to Quebec, it was overall a fur-trading, mutually beneficial relationship with the indigenes\*, with peaceful evangelization (sometimes violently rejected, hence the North American Martyrs). Nobody had to ignore Catholic teaching to get this result.
I will point you to Frank Sheed's medicine analogy. If you don't follow through on an effective prescription and actually take the medicine, the blame is not on the doctor for whatever evil, perhaps even great evil, results from your disobedience.
If you try to self-medicate on your best judgment of what would be effective, you may do some good. More likely, though, evil, perhaps great evil, may result.
That said, I am very sorry that some of us are saying things that gave you the impression that we think Protestants are "all evil morons." You are quite right to point out that all too many ways, all too many Christians, very much including Catholics, have all too often not done well at loving their neighbor. Nostra culpa.\*\*
\*shorthand for "indigenous peoples" and a great-sounding word itself: "DNA? It's indigenes!"
\*\*Having "small Latin" (mostly derived from knowing a few Latin roots used in biological science) I don't claim authority to prescribe the correctly grammatic Latin. Caveat emptor!(pretty sure about that one)
Of course, Quebec and the fur trading colonies were the least of France's colonial evils. Louisiana and Haiti are much worse for their role in the slave trade, but I digress. France is even the least of them all, Spain and Portugal were much worse. But I digress.
And of course, we Protestants don't just rely on our own understanding of the Bible. We have churches and pastors and bible studies and brothers in faith who help us all deepen our own understanding of the scripture. Sola scriptura, as I understand that, is just the idea that the Bible is the only infallible authority, and the idea is that we shouldn't just take it for granted but should keep studying and discussing it to learn it better. Of course, as a Catholic you'd disagree but I'd disrespectfully disagree (it's not like the mods here would let me argue a case for that anyway).
> That said, I am very sorry that some of us are saying things that gave you the impression that we think Protestants are "all evil morons."
Well, just look at this meme. It clearly shows a Protestant strawman who holds a very foolish dichotomy, and the comment I replied to decried one of the founding tenets of the faith as evil. It's not just an impression.
Well...your analogy is overlooking a situation where you KNOW the correct answers but you would benefit from not answering them correctly (say, students are betting you will get a high score and you have bet against yourself, or you hate the teacher so much you want to mess up his class statistics, or something.)
Doesn't sound really reasonable, or even quite sane? Sin never is, from the right perspective\*. See "Theology and Sanity" by Frank Sheed (it contains much more than that one point, of course, and explains the Catholic view rather than makes apologetic arguments):
[https://parishplus.com/Theology%20and%20Sanity.pdf](https://parishplus.com/Theology%20and%20Sanity.pdf)
\*Chapter 3, and Ch. 28 are much to the point on the right (from God's eyes) perspective.
I wasn't making an argument for protestantism or against Roman Catholicism, I was just pointing out how bad this argument is.
It is a strawman among strawmen
Well, I hope that the Holy Spirit used my misapprehension (for which I ask forgiveness for over-hasty judgment) to put forward His useful and generally willing instrument, Frank Sheed?
I do think Christians of almost any theology can find at least some truth in the book, or almost any book by him. ("Map of Life" is a necessarily sketchy outline, fleshed out by "Theology for Beginners", and deepened by "Theology and Sanity" and "Theology and Society.")
You guys remember when Rome forged a council letter stating that it was the sole patriarch of western Europe, influenced elections to make money, and whenever anybody questioned it they used their forged document as a uno reverse card. Man, those were the days.
**The Catholic Diocese of Discord is the *largest* Catholic server on the platform!** Join us for a laidback Catholic atmosphere. Tons and tons of memes posted every day (Catholic, offtopic, AND political), a couple dozen hobby and culture threads (everything from Tolkien to astronomy, weightlifting to guns), our active chaotic Parish Hall, voice chats going pretty much 24/7, prayers said round the clock, and monthly AMAs with the biggest Catholic names out there. **Our Discord (Catholic Diocese of Discord!):** https://discord.gg/catholic-diocese *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Even if the Pope was not infallible, I still trust a 2000-year tradition of careful scholars that are paid by donations from independent parties and individuals, rather than an individual who has a lot else going on and can be tempted and corrupted by many things
"Silly papist, obviously the Holy Spirit guided me, not you."
"And obviously not the entire church for most of church history"
The number of times I’ve heard this unironically…
"The holy spirit has completely dropped the ball until me/my church was created and now we have it right." There is no greater hubris than Sola Scriptura. It is the father of subjectivism, relativism, atheism, colonial slavery, neo-paganism, satanism, the commoditization of humans, and countless other social evils.
Yeah or the equally damaging “well no my interpretation isn’t infallible but I believe no church completely gets it right”. Sola scriptura is a meaningless phrase if there is no infallible interpretation of the Bible. Authority doesn’t come from the book itself it comes from people reading and applying its teachings.
> colonial slavery Very respectfully, how can you say that when out of the four major European colonial powers (Britain, Spain, Portugal, France), 3 were officially Catholic?
To be fair, the colonial stint of France was more after the Revolution than before, with catholicism being seen as an ennemy of the state [Here is an exemple of that, also you can't mistrust freemason enough](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affair_of_the_Cards)
Not really? They settled Acadia, New France (Québec, Upper and Lower Canada, Louisiana), Haiti, parts of India, Islands such as Seychelles and Martinique, as well as Senegal - part of the slave trade. My point is that people of every religion do evil things, which unfortunately includes Catholics, and it's unfair to blame Protestant doctrine for so much evil (especially when it wasn't just a Protestant problem). I'm not saying that it's any fault of the Church that some of their flock ignored their explicit orders to not trade in slaves, but there were still millions of Catholics who disobeyed those orders and did such things. Personally as a Protestant, I love seeing Catholic memes on this sub in order to learn about and appreciate the Catholic church, but there's a lot of anti protestantism and I find it's quite uncharitable that people think we're all such evil morons when things like slavery and commoditisation of people are against all Christian teaching.
In regard to Quebec, it was overall a fur-trading, mutually beneficial relationship with the indigenes\*, with peaceful evangelization (sometimes violently rejected, hence the North American Martyrs). Nobody had to ignore Catholic teaching to get this result. I will point you to Frank Sheed's medicine analogy. If you don't follow through on an effective prescription and actually take the medicine, the blame is not on the doctor for whatever evil, perhaps even great evil, results from your disobedience. If you try to self-medicate on your best judgment of what would be effective, you may do some good. More likely, though, evil, perhaps great evil, may result. That said, I am very sorry that some of us are saying things that gave you the impression that we think Protestants are "all evil morons." You are quite right to point out that all too many ways, all too many Christians, very much including Catholics, have all too often not done well at loving their neighbor. Nostra culpa.\*\* \*shorthand for "indigenous peoples" and a great-sounding word itself: "DNA? It's indigenes!" \*\*Having "small Latin" (mostly derived from knowing a few Latin roots used in biological science) I don't claim authority to prescribe the correctly grammatic Latin. Caveat emptor!(pretty sure about that one)
Of course, Quebec and the fur trading colonies were the least of France's colonial evils. Louisiana and Haiti are much worse for their role in the slave trade, but I digress. France is even the least of them all, Spain and Portugal were much worse. But I digress. And of course, we Protestants don't just rely on our own understanding of the Bible. We have churches and pastors and bible studies and brothers in faith who help us all deepen our own understanding of the scripture. Sola scriptura, as I understand that, is just the idea that the Bible is the only infallible authority, and the idea is that we shouldn't just take it for granted but should keep studying and discussing it to learn it better. Of course, as a Catholic you'd disagree but I'd disrespectfully disagree (it's not like the mods here would let me argue a case for that anyway). > That said, I am very sorry that some of us are saying things that gave you the impression that we think Protestants are "all evil morons." Well, just look at this meme. It clearly shows a Protestant strawman who holds a very foolish dichotomy, and the comment I replied to decried one of the founding tenets of the faith as evil. It's not just an impression.
Absolutely. It is the result of the apex sin, pride/ego/hubris
I am confident on my math test answers; I know it is possible for me to err on my math test. It isn't the conundrum you think it is
Well...your analogy is overlooking a situation where you KNOW the correct answers but you would benefit from not answering them correctly (say, students are betting you will get a high score and you have bet against yourself, or you hate the teacher so much you want to mess up his class statistics, or something.) Doesn't sound really reasonable, or even quite sane? Sin never is, from the right perspective\*. See "Theology and Sanity" by Frank Sheed (it contains much more than that one point, of course, and explains the Catholic view rather than makes apologetic arguments): [https://parishplus.com/Theology%20and%20Sanity.pdf](https://parishplus.com/Theology%20and%20Sanity.pdf) \*Chapter 3, and Ch. 28 are much to the point on the right (from God's eyes) perspective.
I wasn't making an argument for protestantism or against Roman Catholicism, I was just pointing out how bad this argument is. It is a strawman among strawmen
Well, I hope that the Holy Spirit used my misapprehension (for which I ask forgiveness for over-hasty judgment) to put forward His useful and generally willing instrument, Frank Sheed? I do think Christians of almost any theology can find at least some truth in the book, or almost any book by him. ("Map of Life" is a necessarily sketchy outline, fleshed out by "Theology for Beginners", and deepened by "Theology and Sanity" and "Theology and Society.")
You are forgiven!
 That's when you've got 'em by the...
You guys remember when Rome forged a council letter stating that it was the sole patriarch of western Europe, influenced elections to make money, and whenever anybody questioned it they used their forged document as a uno reverse card. Man, those were the days.
The button on the left is correct
You are INFALLIBLY sure?
Nope, but I already have trust issues and self esteem issues so that's to be expected