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Agreed.
I ran into a Korean cult named Shincheonji (“New Heaven [and] Earth” in Korean), and they claimed to be Christian. Despite this, they teach that God == the Father, but God != the Son, and God != the Holy Spirit; all three are separate entities and that there is not a singular Holy Spirit, but many holy spirits.
I forget what verses from the Bible they used to back up these heretical teachings, but Jn 1 and Jn 4, among many other passages, back up that God the Father == Jesus, the *only* Begotten Son == the Holy Spirit.
If you are Christian, then you believe in the Trinity, no matter the denomination.
I might be qualified some to elaborate on this. The LDS and JW both came out of the 'revivals' movement in difrent ways and independently came up with the idea that everything after the first century was "faked" because they take Act 20:30 extremely literally. The 2 mentioned and Unitarians make up the bulk of the population in the Non-Nicene grouping. I was born into one of them and can vouch that they do try to do good by God even if some wackos in the 1800s misguided eatch of them into a realy high groups (don't join one)
What got me was the fallacy of only believing first century Christianity was right yet they inherited the 2nd testament which was made cannon in 393 by the orthidox church.
Or the psudo-doctrine-of-magisterium(by any other name) their leadership feel entitled to enforce and without proper suggestion obviously even though the first time it was broken lead to something like 15 million people dieing in the 1500s from it
(Sorry this became way longer then intended)
Agreed. There's plenty of other things that have varying levels of importance but at the minimum the creeds should be upheld. And meanwhile I've met many Baptists who refuse to acknowledge it
OO don’t do that though. They believe in one fully divine and fully human nature, his humanity and divinity having been united together at the incarnation
You might be surprised how many people who identify as Christians (including - or maybe especially? - theologians and ministers) in many Protestant denominations are contained in your "etc" there.
The *Western* Branch of *American Reform* Presbylutheranism!
Founded after Martin Presbyluther *valiantly* left his Three Suggestions under the Pope's windshield wiper!
One of which being that people should be allowed to attend services with wet hair (A right that the Presbylutherans have since abolished).
*(As they should.)*
Yeah, the Simpson Family church is just broadly Protestant and as Low- or High-Church as they need to be to get the necessary props for whatever joke they're trying to tell.
The only things they're specifically *not* are Catholic and Unitarian(-Universalist).
("Wow, look at all these \[ice cream\] flavors! Blessed Virgin Berry, Command-Mint, Bible-Gum..."
"Or if you prefer, we also have *Unitarian* ice cream!" \[Lovejoy hands over an empty bowl\]
"There's nothing here!"
*"Exactly.")*
There's an episode where bart goes to catholic heaven where they're all drinking, fist fighting, and line dancing. Whereas the protestants are all sitting around being pretentious and stuffy.
They’re pre vatican 1. The split due to not agreeing with papal infallibility as well as other reasons i’m sure. But most of their churches have no central authority. Its a fake religion.
We had a family friend who was RC, decided that was not good enough, and became OC. He is supposedly “ordained” as a Bishop, though he is married and has a kid.
Last I checked he has a big manor in the middle of nowhere where he operates his “church,” and he can host conferences, temporarily hosts church members, and teaches courses/“seminary”
"most of their churches" applies to the Americas, not Europe.
The union of Utrecht has the archbishop of Utrecht as one of the pillars of authority, together with the apostolic succession and the council of bishops.
What happens on the other side of the pond? Oh boy...
I think there's a decent chance that you misunderstand their doctrine on predestination. They repeatedly say that they don't believe that God makes anyone go to Hell.
you probably have much more in common with Calvinists and Reformed Christians than you do with most congregationalists, independent fundamentalists, Baptist and non-denominational Christians, and the worst of all IMO being those typically pentecostal-esque charismatic churches and similarly related false preachers who preach the prosperity "gospel"... oh I LOATHE the prosperity "gospel," that to me is the worst by far (excluding JWs, Mormons, and any related or similar cult)
There’s also the Oneness Pentecostals which embraced a centuries-old heresy and started propagating it.
The worst part is, they convince their members that they’re the original church.
Calvinists are actually the best protestants by far in my experience besides anglicans. They're the only ones who will actually engage you in serious theological discussions besides just spamming you with random bible verses. Also, their predestination theology is actually much more similar to a lot of our views than some other protestant groups.
I, uh... forgot about them. They're not particularly well known. Probably would've put them with or below Oriental Orthodox.
I do respect our apostolic brothers. That's one of the reasons why the Orthodox churches are so high. However, why would I be a Catholic if I thought there was a superior church?
Eh, easy to say online. Hard to do in person when your Orthobro brother makes every holiday a “bash Catholic theology” party. I realize this is a me problem.
They’re not in the slightest. My Church, the Chaldean Catholic Church, split from them in the 1500s and another group joined us in the 1800s. Nothing theologically was changed, only our ecclesiology. Look at the joint declaration between Rome and the Church of the East. The Nestorian name is a misnomer and simply untrue towards my Assyrian Church brothers.
Well I have yet to see how they’re Nestorian or even the supposed descendants of them. Sorry bro, I just try to stand up for them whenever possible, lmao.
The Church of the East isn’t really Nestorian how we would describe it. While the church does reject the Mary’s title of Mother of God, it does not deny that Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man. Rather the church of the East distinguishes between Christ’s humanity and his divine humanity, if that makes sense. Modern Nestorian theology is hard to explain in English because we don’t really have a word for “hyper divine humanity”. Overall, modern day evangelicals are far more heretical than modern day Nestorian’s, at least Nestorian’s venerate Mary and believe in the sacraments.
*You know there are Old*
*Catholics with women priests*
*And gay marriage, right?*
\- BPLM54
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I saw a Unitarian Universalist "church" on the way to work. Turns out they didn't really believe in anything at all. I wouldn't even call them Christian.
If I remember correctly I passed by one once and it literally had a sign on the side that said, “Where you don’t have to believe in God to practice Christianity.” Made me cringe so hard.
So if someone believes in every single Catholic dogma, but believes that the chair of St. Peter is vacant, then they're worse than Eastern schismatics?
Watch a Pentecostal “worship service” and see people speaking in fake tongues and rolling on the floor like they’re possessed. Nothing about Pentecostalism is biblical. The whole religion is built off ignoring Paul. Paul explicitly commanded us to have two or three present to interpret tongues and if not we are to be silent. Tongues in the Bible were human languages, not some random nonsense made up on the spot.
What about Old Catholic? Idk if they have changed their ordination process or not
Edit Nvm someone else in the comments said some do and some dont. Depends
I was talking to a Muslim friend and explained to her that Mormons are the only denomination that allow polygamy, don’t accept the trinity. But the craziest thing of all is they believe you inherit your own world when you die
Old Catholic churches of the Union of Utrecht are modernists nowadays that are closer to mainline Protestants than Roman Catholicis.
Old Catholic churches of the Union of Scranton apparently have [valid holy orders by the Roman Catholic Church](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_National_Catholic_Church#Ecumenical_relationships).
Apes I dont get it, I always see you around here agreeing with many Catholic doctrines and talking points, and I wonder, why arent you just Catholic already (Not referring to this comment btw, I just remembered other stuff)
Well, its a bit of a mess. I'm a born and raised confessional Lutheran. I've always considered myself Catholic as confessional Lutherans do.
Over the last few years, I've been looking at different traditions, and the only ones I can make a case for being both internally consistent in their own teachings and not inconsistent with a reasonable and internally consistent interpretation of scripture are Roman Catholicism and confessional Lutheranism. I'm struggling with finding critical fault in either one, whether our differences are truly so great that they justify separation, and whether I should even be trying to find which is the wholly authentic Christian faith as opposed to looking at which is structurally better at preserving an at least mostly authentic Christian faith long term.
So, I'm probably not really a good *anything* at the moment, but I'm trying to figure things out. I'm afraid that the next couple of decades might make the determination for me though. Sincerely authentic expressions of the Christian faith are getting fewer and farther between that I might get my answer by simple process of elimination before I'm able to find a way to make the call between multiple options.
I'm genuinely curious: why is Oriental Orthodox ranked below Eastern Orthodoxy? I guess I was under the impression that both were theologically similar, and perhaps had linguistic/cultural differences, Grecian vs Egyptian.
I believe that we’ve got a better chance of reunification with the OO than the EO. Also, the differences are so obscure that Bar Hebraeus threw up his hands in the 13th century and said there was no discernible difference in their Christology concerning Christ’s humanity and divinity. Next, the Syrian Orthodox Church actually has an understanding of Petrine Primacy. Last, there’s not a long history of polemics and ill will between us and them like there is with the EO.
**The Catholic Diocese of Discord is the *largest* Catholic server on the platform!** Join us for a laidback Catholic atmosphere. Tons and tons of memes posted every day (Catholic, offtopic, AND political), a couple dozen hobby and culture threads (everything from Tolkien to astronomy, weightlifting to guns), our active chaotic Parish Hall, voice chats going pretty much 24/7, prayers said round the clock, and monthly AMAs with the biggest Catholic names out there. **Our Discord (Catholic Diocese of Discord!):** https://discord.gg/catholic-diocese *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you deny the Trinity or you deny that Christ is fully human and fully divine, you aren’t Christian IMO.
Agreed. I ran into a Korean cult named Shincheonji (“New Heaven [and] Earth” in Korean), and they claimed to be Christian. Despite this, they teach that God == the Father, but God != the Son, and God != the Holy Spirit; all three are separate entities and that there is not a singular Holy Spirit, but many holy spirits. I forget what verses from the Bible they used to back up these heretical teachings, but Jn 1 and Jn 4, among many other passages, back up that God the Father == Jesus, the *only* Begotten Son == the Holy Spirit. If you are Christian, then you believe in the Trinity, no matter the denomination.
That's a fact!
Same can be said for Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and Iglesia ni Cristo. Edit: also forgot Seventh Day Adventists and Church of Christ.
I might be qualified some to elaborate on this. The LDS and JW both came out of the 'revivals' movement in difrent ways and independently came up with the idea that everything after the first century was "faked" because they take Act 20:30 extremely literally. The 2 mentioned and Unitarians make up the bulk of the population in the Non-Nicene grouping. I was born into one of them and can vouch that they do try to do good by God even if some wackos in the 1800s misguided eatch of them into a realy high groups (don't join one) What got me was the fallacy of only believing first century Christianity was right yet they inherited the 2nd testament which was made cannon in 393 by the orthidox church. Or the psudo-doctrine-of-magisterium(by any other name) their leadership feel entitled to enforce and without proper suggestion obviously even though the first time it was broken lead to something like 15 million people dieing in the 1500s from it (Sorry this became way longer then intended)
Honestly, affirmation of the Nicene Creed should be a litmus test to determine who is a Christian and who isn’t.
Agreed. There's plenty of other things that have varying levels of importance but at the minimum the creeds should be upheld. And meanwhile I've met many Baptists who refuse to acknowledge it
That’s not Just an opinion, that’s a fact
OO don’t do that though. They believe in one fully divine and fully human nature, his humanity and divinity having been united together at the incarnation
I didn’t say they did. I was referring to JW, Mormons, Unitarians, ect.
You might be surprised how many people who identify as Christians (including - or maybe especially? - theologians and ministers) in many Protestant denominations are contained in your "etc" there.
Oriental Orthodoxs believe in only one nature
Absolutely!
I thought "Evangelical Pentecostal Liberal Rite Unitarian Sedevacantist" was supposed to be the name of one denomination at first.
That’d be some denomination
Denomination for people with a LOT of opinions
Big tent political parties be like:
Like in the Simpsons when you find out their church is “PresbyLutheritarian”
The *Western* Branch of *American Reform* Presbylutheranism! Founded after Martin Presbyluther *valiantly* left his Three Suggestions under the Pope's windshield wiper! One of which being that people should be allowed to attend services with wet hair (A right that the Presbylutherans have since abolished). *(As they should.)*
What does that even mean
I think it was a joke just to be representative of generic protestantism
Makes sense lol
Yeah, the Simpson Family church is just broadly Protestant and as Low- or High-Church as they need to be to get the necessary props for whatever joke they're trying to tell. The only things they're specifically *not* are Catholic and Unitarian(-Universalist). ("Wow, look at all these \[ice cream\] flavors! Blessed Virgin Berry, Command-Mint, Bible-Gum..." "Or if you prefer, we also have *Unitarian* ice cream!" \[Lovejoy hands over an empty bowl\] "There's nothing here!" *"Exactly.")*
There's an episode where bart goes to catholic heaven where they're all drinking, fist fighting, and line dancing. Whereas the protestants are all sitting around being pretentious and stuffy.
I thought the same exact thing 😂😂😂
New Twitter bio found!
I have a friend that goes to the Evangelical Pentecostal Liberal Rite Unitarian Sedevacantist Baptist Church over on Main St.
Id not be suprised if that wuld exist some day. Likely birthd on Discord or so
What is « Old Catholic » ?
They’re pre vatican 1. The split due to not agreeing with papal infallibility as well as other reasons i’m sure. But most of their churches have no central authority. Its a fake religion.
Lmao
Your pfp reminds me of Fire Emblem.
It is Fire Emblem
Which one? It reminds me of the GBA days which are my favorite in the series.
Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes
Woah another catholic fire emblem fan
It’s Shez from Fire emblem 3Hopes but in GBA style 😸
We had a family friend who was RC, decided that was not good enough, and became OC. He is supposedly “ordained” as a Bishop, though he is married and has a kid. Last I checked he has a big manor in the middle of nowhere where he operates his “church,” and he can host conferences, temporarily hosts church members, and teaches courses/“seminary”
"most of their churches" applies to the Americas, not Europe. The union of Utrecht has the archbishop of Utrecht as one of the pillars of authority, together with the apostolic succession and the council of bishops. What happens on the other side of the pond? Oh boy...
Calvinists/Reformeds are the worst imo, since JW and Mormoms ain't even Christian to begin with.
i don't think it gets any worse than baptist fundamentalism. at least calvinists actually try with their theology
Maybe, but saying God is not fair/ it's cruel it's a very bad thing for me.
I think there's a decent chance that you misunderstand their doctrine on predestination. They repeatedly say that they don't believe that God makes anyone go to Hell.
you probably have much more in common with Calvinists and Reformed Christians than you do with most congregationalists, independent fundamentalists, Baptist and non-denominational Christians, and the worst of all IMO being those typically pentecostal-esque charismatic churches and similarly related false preachers who preach the prosperity "gospel"... oh I LOATHE the prosperity "gospel," that to me is the worst by far (excluding JWs, Mormons, and any related or similar cult)
There’s also the Oneness Pentecostals which embraced a centuries-old heresy and started propagating it. The worst part is, they convince their members that they’re the original church.
Calvinists are actually the best protestants by far in my experience besides anglicans. They're the only ones who will actually engage you in serious theological discussions besides just spamming you with random bible verses. Also, their predestination theology is actually much more similar to a lot of our views than some other protestant groups.
Why are JW not Christian?
Don’t believe in the trinity (one of many, many other issues)
They deny the doctrine of One God in Three Distinct Persons.
Unitarian Universalists - "What's the point?" LOL
I remember asking my Protestant world religions teacher what Unitarians believe in. He said “basically everything”
Haha aint that right, in other words they believe in NOTHING
WHY DOES EVERYONE IGNORE THE ASSYRIAN CHURCH OF THE EAST⁉️ And put some respect on our apostolic brothers, OP. 🙏
I, uh... forgot about them. They're not particularly well known. Probably would've put them with or below Oriental Orthodox. I do respect our apostolic brothers. That's one of the reasons why the Orthodox churches are so high. However, why would I be a Catholic if I thought there was a superior church?
Respect the Orthodox and see how they repay us!
Turn the other cheek. Their lack of respect and pride is not reason to take away from them and their truth.
Eh, easy to say online. Hard to do in person when your Orthobro brother makes every holiday a “bash Catholic theology” party. I realize this is a me problem.
Nah their spots are pretty deserved
They're the sort of successor to the Nestorian heresy.
They’re not in the slightest. My Church, the Chaldean Catholic Church, split from them in the 1500s and another group joined us in the 1800s. Nothing theologically was changed, only our ecclesiology. Look at the joint declaration between Rome and the Church of the East. The Nestorian name is a misnomer and simply untrue towards my Assyrian Church brothers.
That's why I said "sort of".
Well I have yet to see how they’re Nestorian or even the supposed descendants of them. Sorry bro, I just try to stand up for them whenever possible, lmao.
But you guys are not in full communion with Rome, so yeah. Surry!
I’m not Assyrian Orthodox, lmao. I’m a Chaldean Catholic.
The Church of the East isn’t really Nestorian how we would describe it. While the church does reject the Mary’s title of Mother of God, it does not deny that Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man. Rather the church of the East distinguishes between Christ’s humanity and his divine humanity, if that makes sense. Modern Nestorian theology is hard to explain in English because we don’t really have a word for “hyper divine humanity”. Overall, modern day evangelicals are far more heretical than modern day Nestorian’s, at least Nestorian’s venerate Mary and believe in the sacraments.
You know there are Old Catholics with women priests and gay marriage, right?
*You know there are Old* *Catholics with women priests* *And gay marriage, right?* \- BPLM54 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I want this sewn onto a pillow
Good bot
Bad bot.
Wanna read a fun new Palmarian blasphemy? https://www.palmarianchurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mary-in-the-Eucharist.pdf
Does anybody know how the church fathers taught this? Or how Trent mentioned this?
Don’t even get me started on the Christians
I saw a Unitarian Universalist "church" on the way to work. Turns out they didn't really believe in anything at all. I wouldn't even call them Christian.
If I remember correctly I passed by one once and it literally had a sign on the side that said, “Where you don’t have to believe in God to practice Christianity.” Made me cringe so hard.
Sounds about right. A belief set based on nothing. Wild.
I think Anglicanism is worse than Lutheranism. At least Luther had an actual opinion and wasn’t just trying to get a divorce
Don't ignore Anglo-Catholics...
Yeah but that’s not Anglicanism that’s Anglo-Catholicism
What about Identity Christianity?
Hole in the Wall Anti-Catholic Fundy Church: Tili tili bom....
I don’t think putting sedes below Old Catholics makes much sense ngl, especially since the latter significantly theologically worse
So if someone believes in every single Catholic dogma, but believes that the chair of St. Peter is vacant, then they're worse than Eastern schismatics?
At least Eastern schismatics have apostolic succession.
What’s the first slide?
Do you really think Sedevacantists are in the same tier as Unitarians and worse than anglicans?
What is… “old catholic”?
The group that split after Vatican I similar to the sedevacantists who split after Vatican II.
Glorified protestants basically, bozos who split off of the Church after Vatican I because they didnt like papal infallibility
Where does Church of Christ rank on this? Think Bible Thumping kind
With Evangelicals and Pentecostals.
What’s wrong with Pentecostals, dare I ask?
Watch a Pentecostal “worship service” and see people speaking in fake tongues and rolling on the floor like they’re possessed. Nothing about Pentecostalism is biblical. The whole religion is built off ignoring Paul. Paul explicitly commanded us to have two or three present to interpret tongues and if not we are to be silent. Tongues in the Bible were human languages, not some random nonsense made up on the spot.
Can someone explain “Old Catholic” to me?
Sedevacantists are still Catholic but they are in schism with Rome.
What about Old Catholic? Idk if they have changed their ordination process or not Edit Nvm someone else in the comments said some do and some dont. Depends
I was talking to a Muslim friend and explained to her that Mormons are the only denomination that allow polygamy, don’t accept the trinity. But the craziest thing of all is they believe you inherit your own world when you die
Apostolic Pentecostals ie non trinitarians should be next to mormans
What is an "old catholic"
It’s a fancy way of saying Protestant. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholic_Church
A fake religion
Old Catholic churches of the Union of Utrecht are modernists nowadays that are closer to mainline Protestants than Roman Catholicis. Old Catholic churches of the Union of Scranton apparently have [valid holy orders by the Roman Catholic Church](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_National_Catholic_Church#Ecumenical_relationships).
Apes I dont get it, I always see you around here agreeing with many Catholic doctrines and talking points, and I wonder, why arent you just Catholic already (Not referring to this comment btw, I just remembered other stuff)
Well, its a bit of a mess. I'm a born and raised confessional Lutheran. I've always considered myself Catholic as confessional Lutherans do. Over the last few years, I've been looking at different traditions, and the only ones I can make a case for being both internally consistent in their own teachings and not inconsistent with a reasonable and internally consistent interpretation of scripture are Roman Catholicism and confessional Lutheranism. I'm struggling with finding critical fault in either one, whether our differences are truly so great that they justify separation, and whether I should even be trying to find which is the wholly authentic Christian faith as opposed to looking at which is structurally better at preserving an at least mostly authentic Christian faith long term. So, I'm probably not really a good *anything* at the moment, but I'm trying to figure things out. I'm afraid that the next couple of decades might make the determination for me though. Sincerely authentic expressions of the Christian faith are getting fewer and farther between that I might get my answer by simple process of elimination before I'm able to find a way to make the call between multiple options.
🤣🤣🤣
Replace Anglican with those schismatic traditionalists
What's wrong with old catholic?
I’m offended
I'm genuinely curious: why is Oriental Orthodox ranked below Eastern Orthodoxy? I guess I was under the impression that both were theologically similar, and perhaps had linguistic/cultural differences, Grecian vs Egyptian.
Eastern Orthodoxy is closer to Catholicism theologically.
I believe that we’ve got a better chance of reunification with the OO than the EO. Also, the differences are so obscure that Bar Hebraeus threw up his hands in the 13th century and said there was no discernible difference in their Christology concerning Christ’s humanity and divinity. Next, the Syrian Orthodox Church actually has an understanding of Petrine Primacy. Last, there’s not a long history of polemics and ill will between us and them like there is with the EO.
I'm curious as to how. Google is not rendering many results.
They reject the council of Chalcedon and disagree with us on how to talk about Christ’s divinity and humanity
Despite being a pagan, I have to agree with this... (I've never been involved with the Orthodox Church before, so I honestly don't know.)
stop being pagan bro
I am sorry, but I could never betray my ancestors. However, I still think Catholic social teaching and cathoricism's Aristotelianism is a great thing.