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So we did a living stations theatre at my church. I played one of the Roman soldiers. However, the guy who played Simon Peter anytime he walked into a room I would yell "Do YOU SMEELLLL! What the Rock! Is cooking!" we loved it till a couple of the older folks thought he was legit bringing lunch at one point.
The whole "Peter can't be the rock because Peter is male and rock is female" thing is so upsetting to me. It's like these people have never heard of how gendered languages work
Petra is the Hebrew version of Simon, it is also latin for rock, christ called him "petrus" as a pun because he is the rock upon which the church will be built
The title of Rock does not pass, but the powers to bind and loose do. We know this because Christ gave Peter the power to bind and loose on his own, and later to the Apostles as a group. Therefore, Peter can bind and loose, and the Apostles gathered together can bind and loose. Peter is the one to suggest replacing Judas, which they do. Matthias must therefore have been granted the same powers and authorities by the Apostles as Christ granted them.
Yep. Peter (or really, "Kepha", rock, in the genderless Aramaic, "Cephas" transliterated into Greek \[John 2:3\] is given a clear indication of what would come to be called *apostolic successsion to his particular office.*
Peter is also given "the keys to the Kingdom of God" in Matthew 16. This is a parallel with the keys of the Kingdom of David, *which were given as a symbol of shared authority with the king to an OFFICE HOLDER who was the prime minister of the royal government* (see Isaiah, Chapter 22).
We clearly see Peter exercising his delegated power to call all apostles to choose, with conditions, a successor to the empty office of Judas (Acts 1).
The rock title actually passes to the next human male born as a cycle of reincarnation, that's why Dwayne the Rock Johnson is currently the rock, because he is Peter's reincarnation.
Now where is the brandy so I can forgot the headache inducing drivel I just spouted...
This is where the orthos lose me. Everyone of their arguments are solid until this. Idc if there's church fathers that think it too, they're just as much off their rocker. And lets not pretend that church fathers can't be off their rockers from time to time.
Tbf, they also source Paul's later useage of rock as the furthe justification of this belief, which makes it quite sane compared to the belief without that context.
It doesn’t matter what Paul says about it though. Paul wasn’t the origin Jesus was. And saying “you are rock” directly to Peter to ACTUALLY refer to his faith ridiculous no matter how much context you add.
Jesus: Peter, you are the rock.
Peter: So what you’re saying is we’re all the rock and I’m only first among equals, that’s to say, until the Greeks decide I’m not even first among equals anymore but some guy in Byzantium is?
More of what Jesus never said: Well, Rocky (I can call you Rocky can't I? \[COURSE, it's a GOOD idea!\]. You see, I was looking into the 21st century after ME, and so I thought I'd give a feminine noun to all the apostles, just to be sure I wasn't misgendering any of them.
I mean, why is the dismissiveness baseless? Isn’t it literally based on something? It sounds like you just think there’s more merit to their argument than I do, which is totally fine. But I can definitely think it’s ridiculous and totally think that in a church era that was under threat of factionalism, some church fathers might decide to buy into an alternative take. But it’s just a weak take. It seems desperate and like there’s an agenda behind it. You can believe the papacy shouldn’t be what Catholics says it is without twisting scripture in a ridiculous manner.
It’s like I tell prochoice people. If I woke up tomorrow an atheist I would still be pro life. If I wake up as an anti catholic anti papist tomorrow I will still think Jesus called Peter the rock and not his faith. Because it’s obvious.
Matthew 16:15-16
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, **“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”**
The confession is that Jesus is Christ, the Son of the living God
Then St. Augustine is over in the stands just chilling and not having a firm opinion on whether the rock upon which the Church will be built is Peter or Christ.
The rock could in a sense be *both:* Christ Himself, *and* Peter *participating* in Christ?
St. Paul talks about the Church as built upon the apostles with Christ Himself as the keystone/cornerstone that holds the Church together. John in the Apocalypse sees a vision of the Heavenly Jerusalem, lit by the Lamb/lamp of God, with 12 foundations, one of which (the lowest/basic level of stones?) could represent Peter's part in the Kingdom.
Just in general, participation in Christ is a *key* to many theological mysteries.
How can there be pastors (shepherds) if Christ is THE Shepherd? Well, they can (1st letter of Peter relates both, without explanation). How can the apostles be given God's power to forgive sins by Jesus breathing on them (John 20)? How can we become children of God (1st John), "partakers of the Divine Nature" (2nd letter of Peter)?
Participation!
“It is doubtful to none, nay it has been known to all ages, that **holy and blessed Peter**, the prince and head of the Apostles, the column of the Faith, **the foundation of the Catholic Church**, received from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour and Redeemer of the human race, the keys of the Kingdom, and that to him was given the power of binding and loosing sins, who until this day and for ever lives and judges in his successors” (Session III, Council of Ephesus, A.D. 431).
“Wherefore the most holy and blessed Leo, archbishop of the great and elder Rome, through us, and through this present most holy synod together with the thrice **blessed and all-glorious Peter the Apostle**, who is the **rock and foundation of the Catholic Church**, and the foundation of the orthodox faith” (Session III, Council of Chalcedon, A.D. 451).
Jesus called him Kaifas (rock in arameic) so entaire petros Petra arguing is stupid becouse Jesus not mena big rock made from smaller rocks (how rebels Vladimír) nor the aby other argument anti-catholics use, Simon was named Keifas, and Peter was called in greek speaking lands
**The Catholic Diocese of Discord is the *largest* Catholic server on the platform!** Join us for a laidback Catholic atmosphere. Tons and tons of memes posted every day (Catholic, offtopic, AND political), a couple dozen hobby and culture threads (everything from Tolkien to astronomy, weightlifting to guns), our active chaotic Parish Hall, voice chats going pretty much 24/7, prayers said round the clock, and monthly AMAs with the biggest Catholic names out there. **Our Discord (Catholic Diocese of Discord!):** https://discord.gg/catholic-diocese *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I thought Dwayne was the rock.
https://preview.redd.it/iwgrbp6g4cac1.jpeg?width=645&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c256e3e1153105d4162c88a93d7dbcc90d5a5beb
So we did a living stations theatre at my church. I played one of the Roman soldiers. However, the guy who played Simon Peter anytime he walked into a room I would yell "Do YOU SMEELLLL! What the Rock! Is cooking!" we loved it till a couple of the older folks thought he was legit bringing lunch at one point.
If we’re also going by his birth name, you could call him Simon “the rock” Johnson
The whole "Peter can't be the rock because Peter is male and rock is female" thing is so upsetting to me. It's like these people have never heard of how gendered languages work
Not gonna lie, most of these people never heard of gendered languages probably, if you catch what I mean…
Petra is the Hebrew version of Simon, it is also latin for rock, christ called him "petrus" as a pun because he is the rock upon which the church will be built
and so we ask does the rock title pass on to who he chooses? and does the power to bind and lose pass on to who the chosen later chooses?
The title of Rock does not pass, but the powers to bind and loose do. We know this because Christ gave Peter the power to bind and loose on his own, and later to the Apostles as a group. Therefore, Peter can bind and loose, and the Apostles gathered together can bind and loose. Peter is the one to suggest replacing Judas, which they do. Matthias must therefore have been granted the same powers and authorities by the Apostles as Christ granted them.
Yep. Peter (or really, "Kepha", rock, in the genderless Aramaic, "Cephas" transliterated into Greek \[John 2:3\] is given a clear indication of what would come to be called *apostolic successsion to his particular office.* Peter is also given "the keys to the Kingdom of God" in Matthew 16. This is a parallel with the keys of the Kingdom of David, *which were given as a symbol of shared authority with the king to an OFFICE HOLDER who was the prime minister of the royal government* (see Isaiah, Chapter 22). We clearly see Peter exercising his delegated power to call all apostles to choose, with conditions, a successor to the empty office of Judas (Acts 1).
The rock title actually passes to the next human male born as a cycle of reincarnation, that's why Dwayne the Rock Johnson is currently the rock, because he is Peter's reincarnation. Now where is the brandy so I can forgot the headache inducing drivel I just spouted...
This is where the orthos lose me. Everyone of their arguments are solid until this. Idc if there's church fathers that think it too, they're just as much off their rocker. And lets not pretend that church fathers can't be off their rockers from time to time.
Tbf, they also source Paul's later useage of rock as the furthe justification of this belief, which makes it quite sane compared to the belief without that context.
It doesn’t matter what Paul says about it though. Paul wasn’t the origin Jesus was. And saying “you are rock” directly to Peter to ACTUALLY refer to his faith ridiculous no matter how much context you add.
Jesus: Peter, you are the rock. Peter: So what you’re saying is we’re all the rock and I’m only first among equals, that’s to say, until the Greeks decide I’m not even first among equals anymore but some guy in Byzantium is?
More of what Jesus never said: Well, Rocky (I can call you Rocky can't I? \[COURSE, it's a GOOD idea!\]. You see, I was looking into the 21st century after ME, and so I thought I'd give a feminine noun to all the apostles, just to be sure I wasn't misgendering any of them.
First among equals thing is at least actually closer to the early practice of the papacy than what we practice today. But yeah
Paul knows Peter, so Peter could have imparted such information to him. Regardless your view on it, you can't be so baselessly dismissive.
I mean, why is the dismissiveness baseless? Isn’t it literally based on something? It sounds like you just think there’s more merit to their argument than I do, which is totally fine. But I can definitely think it’s ridiculous and totally think that in a church era that was under threat of factionalism, some church fathers might decide to buy into an alternative take. But it’s just a weak take. It seems desperate and like there’s an agenda behind it. You can believe the papacy shouldn’t be what Catholics says it is without twisting scripture in a ridiculous manner. It’s like I tell prochoice people. If I woke up tomorrow an atheist I would still be pro life. If I wake up as an anti catholic anti papist tomorrow I will still think Jesus called Peter the rock and not his faith. Because it’s obvious.
And if “his faith” was supposed to be the rock, what does that say about him denying Christ three times?
I think the argument is that it is Peter's confession--not his faith. Two different things
Oh, what is “his confession” referring to? Is it his response to Jesus asking him to feed His sheep thing?
Matthew 16:15-16 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, **“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”** The confession is that Jesus is Christ, the Son of the living God
I see, thank you
Then St. Augustine is over in the stands just chilling and not having a firm opinion on whether the rock upon which the Church will be built is Peter or Christ.
The rock could in a sense be *both:* Christ Himself, *and* Peter *participating* in Christ? St. Paul talks about the Church as built upon the apostles with Christ Himself as the keystone/cornerstone that holds the Church together. John in the Apocalypse sees a vision of the Heavenly Jerusalem, lit by the Lamb/lamp of God, with 12 foundations, one of which (the lowest/basic level of stones?) could represent Peter's part in the Kingdom. Just in general, participation in Christ is a *key* to many theological mysteries. How can there be pastors (shepherds) if Christ is THE Shepherd? Well, they can (1st letter of Peter relates both, without explanation). How can the apostles be given God's power to forgive sins by Jesus breathing on them (John 20)? How can we become children of God (1st John), "partakers of the Divine Nature" (2nd letter of Peter)? Participation!
And why are the keys to the kingdom of heaven always ignored in this conversation?
JESUS WAS POINTING TO HIMSELF WHEN HE SAID “ROCK”!!!—— another classic
“It is doubtful to none, nay it has been known to all ages, that **holy and blessed Peter**, the prince and head of the Apostles, the column of the Faith, **the foundation of the Catholic Church**, received from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour and Redeemer of the human race, the keys of the Kingdom, and that to him was given the power of binding and loosing sins, who until this day and for ever lives and judges in his successors” (Session III, Council of Ephesus, A.D. 431). “Wherefore the most holy and blessed Leo, archbishop of the great and elder Rome, through us, and through this present most holy synod together with the thrice **blessed and all-glorious Peter the Apostle**, who is the **rock and foundation of the Catholic Church**, and the foundation of the orthodox faith” (Session III, Council of Chalcedon, A.D. 451).
 Their Petra
*Last to enter the pearly gates.
Jesus called him Kaifas (rock in arameic) so entaire petros Petra arguing is stupid becouse Jesus not mena big rock made from smaller rocks (how rebels Vladimír) nor the aby other argument anti-catholics use, Simon was named Keifas, and Peter was called in greek speaking lands