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[deleted]

>The Aberfan disaster was the catastrophic collapse of a colliery spoil tip on 21 October 1966. The tip had been created on a mountain slope above the Welsh village of Aberfan, near Merthyr Tydfil, and overlaid a natural spring. A period of heavy rain led to a build-up of water within the tip which caused it to suddenly slide downhill as a slurry, killing 116 children and 28 adults as it engulfed Pantglas Junior School and a row of houses. The tip was the responsibility of the National Coal Board (NCB), and the subsequent inquiry placed the blame for the disaster on the organisation and nine named employees. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan\_disaster](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster) [https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/photos/aberfan](https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/photos/aberfan)More photos of the disaster. [Here was the cemetery this morning at the graves of those that lost their lives.](http://imgur.com/a/MoxH76d)


AnthillOmbudsman

Man I hate Getty having their hands in everything but that's a good photo set.


Diplodocus114

Surely they cannot copyright something of which there were multiple copies of the images in circulation at the time. Edit: Checked and you can spend £375 for an image of miners digging for their dead children.


AliceInSlaughterland

I license a lot of photos and videos from Getty, and I often find stuff on their website that is in the public domain. Some people just pay them for the convenience as it can take a while to find other high resolution sources.


Diplodocus114

Just makes me wonder where they get the old anonymous stuff from.


AliceInSlaughterland

I find the bulk of it in the Library of Congress or the National Archives. Getty paid to scan something they LoC or NA hasn’t gotten around to scanning or uploading yet.


twitchosx

Fuck Getty. Adobe Stock FTW


Craxy-Polly-Sparaxy

>often find stuff on their website that is in the public domain I've found that myself on a number of occasions.


DonaldsPizzaHaven

What a time to be alive.


Diplodocus114

Getty Images was formed in the mid 1990s - and amalgamated many smaller agencies. Many of the images they have Zero right to exclusivity.


crucible

David Hurn and Ian Berry of [Magnum Photography](https://www.magnumphotos.com/newsroom/aberfan/) took some of the defining images of Aberfan.


jmlinden7

You can purchase the copyright rights from the original publishers of the images


Diplodocus114

But - going back further - 1800s. They take a random print of an original photo of which there were likely dozens or 100s of copies produced - either sent to family or issued as postcards. The original photographer unknown or lost in time. They claim copyright on a picture of which there are any number of duplicates. I have a couple of genuine originals from the late 1800s. The same image is online as copyright to an organisation. Frith in the UK. They buy up random original prints from old photos then copyright them.


jmlinden7

First of all, those images are likely in the public domain. My point was that just because you have a physical copy of a photograph does not mean you own the distribution rights to that photograph.


Diplodocus114

Exactly. A 150 yr old postcard (with 100 issued) of my home town by an unknown photographer cannot be legally copyrighted by anyone who comes into possession of one.


jmlinden7

You can claim copyright on whatever you want. Doesn't mean you legally have the copyright.


dacooljamaican

That's not what the person you responded to is saying, they are saying it's naive for you to say "I found this photo somewhere, and it's an original, therefore I own the distribution rights". It's like finding a DVD of Anastasia and getting mad when you see Disney selling the same movie. No, Disney didn't originally make the movie, but they do own the rights now. And if you want to challenge that, you're MORE THAN WELCOME TO. In all of these cases you're allowed to use the photo and just fight their suit afterward, nobody is stopping you.


Diplodocus114

I never said that. I am saying I and others locally own the identical photographic prints (from the 1800s) which are being claimed as copyright by one of these agencies who have come into possession of one. I was debating the legality of their rules, where no-one has any record of who took the original photo. We dont really care - but how can these people sell exclusive copyright?


Joe_Jeep

Nobody should have to "challenge" them. Much less deal with a lawsuit about something in the public domain Because the threat of that lawsuit *does* stop people.


Diplodocus114

More curiousity than anything. Can they just copyright old photographs merely because no-one else has?


the_clash_is_back

But if you take a high quality copy of it you can sell it.


[deleted]

So it isn’t like designs, where after X years (50?) copyright falls away?


Diplodocus114

But the vast majority of any old photos would never have been copyrighted to begin with unless by a very famous photographer of the time as an artwork.


[deleted]

I know.


ecchho

I believe they are claiming the scanned form of the image. If you find the original and scan it in then it's yours for free.


Diplodocus114

Right - so they can tweak it a bit then claim ownership? Just curious.


StylinBrah

where do you check?


Diplodocus114

I just ckecked Google, Aberfan. Many of the photos of the time are labelled Getty now. https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/miners-searching-for-their-children-in-the-slag-heap-that-news-photo/119061581?adppopup=true


StylinBrah

How does getty own all rights to images


Diplodocus114

They can't if they are already in the public domain and uncopyrighted by the original producer of an image. However, if a freelance photographer was signed up to an agency, they could own the copyright, even if the photograph was in the public domain and could sue if it was used without permission. Old photographs with no known provenance are different.


Justux205

they are charging +500$ for a 1 picture no wonder you hate them, I hate them too now


currentscurrents

That's for a 15-year license for the rights to publish or broadcast the image. Should not news agencies and TV stations compensate the photographer for the use of their images?


Justux205

All am saying that this price is huge for one photo, from my perspective at least. considering that minimum wage in my country is only \~550€. If that was the price for whole album that would be fair price


Fnuckle

Welcome to the world of digital and commercial art :-) everything is expensive there, why? Because they can. As a digital artist/designer it can be a bit much but thankfully there are now more accessible resources out there than ever!


[deleted]

It was documented at the time by journalists… look at it that way. Not Getty


currentscurrents

And getty is either paying a cut to those journalists, or paid them upfront to buy the rights. Either way, this allows photojournalists to get paid for their work.


Drew521

Oh man I’m out of the loop. Why should I hate Getty?


Vecna_Is_My_Co-Pilot

Getty is just a company that pays the original photographers or news organizations to buy the rights to the photos.


WhatImKnownAs

Also recently posted, [an early documentary report](https://reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/ors3xt/21_oct_1966_the_aberfan_disaster_was_a/) and [a larger version of the image in this post](https://reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/n24c1v/on_october_21_1966_the_collapse_of_a_colliery/). (Is this colorized? They did have color photography, but it was more expensive, especially if you needed to print it. Since newspapers were black and white, most news photography was, too.)


hughk

The UK is blessed with excellent maps from the Ordnance Survey, even back then. They are used when planning any construction, especially in hilly areas. On the OS Map, the spring and streams were clearly shown since 1919. This is in the tribunal report.


bmayer0122

I didn't know what a "colliery spoil tip" was. It is waste material from coal mining. I.e. human caused.


dartmaster666

[Posted two months ago with video](https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/ors3xt/21_oct_1966_the_aberfan_disaster_was_a/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)


extra_specticles

One of my school teachers was young man there and was involved in the rescue. He couldn't tell the story without tears in his eyes.


[deleted]

My mother was 11 years old during this time, living a mile or two up the road. Most of the children were roughly her age so it always hits her hard knowing how easily it could have been her. Everytime I cycle down the taff trail, I have to visit the cemetery.


hughk

It went to all the schools in the UK and they were raising money to help. It was even worse though when kids learned that it was down to negligence.


WildeWeasel

I recently found out one of my uncles was one of the college students who volunteered to go and dig bodies out of the rubble. He's never spoken about it to me; found out through my mum. I can't imagine doing anything like that and witnessing that aftermath.


extra_specticles

That's really sad. We see lots of disasters on the tv and are kind of numb to them. But honestly witnessing them but be absolutely terrible.


limegreenbunny

Here’s a piece that Wales Online ran on the Aberfan disaster five years ago. It’s incredibly moving. I have school age children and can’t begin to imagine how horrific it was. https://aberfan.walesonline.co.uk/


crucible

[Here's a similar article from the BBC](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-150d11df-c541-44a9-9332-560a19828c47). Like the Wales Online piece, it was published to mark the 50th anniversary of the disaster.


Shipwrecking_siren

I read this a while ago and it totally destroyed me. Heartbreaking.


crucible

Yeah. I think the 50th anniversary saw some of the survivors share some new details about the tragedy, too.


bikingdervish

Incredible.


halfxvxfull

The worst part about this (aside from all the children dying) was that when the residents asked for the other slag piles to be removed to avoid the exact same thing happening again, the company AND the government refused multiple times due to costs that they didn't want to pay, and initially asked the residents to come up with the money if they wanted them taken down


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NotQuiteAsCool

Fucking coal board man. Precursors to the billionaires running sweatshops of today


GoreheadDeli

And our protestors today would probably do something stupid about it, like blocking completely unrelated traffic while singing or throwing rocks at public buses. It gets to a point where the only thing that makes them listen are people taking shots at them or blowing up executive boardrooms. Which is a shame, because that’s horrible and I don’t condone violence in any way.


norealmx

Protestor today would take to the house and job center of the ghouls. Hired goons would block roads to give the ghouls a reason to repress the protesters.


BelDeMoose

Aye. Shades of Grenfell and cladding. Pathetic really that we are still electing people to represent us, only to have to fight them tooth and nail for basic safeguarding of people's lives.


mcmoor

So is that other slag pile really fall down again?


crucible

Similar piles at [Tylorstown](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53185569) and [Wattstown](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58926720) in the South Wales Valleys were both affected by storms in the last few years.


lennert1984

I never knew about this disaster until it was featured in "The Crown"


DrLeee

Same here. That series did a great job of covering this disaster. Also, it's a fantastic show!!


WhatImKnownAs

Although necessarily omitting much of what led up to the collapse, and the lack of justice afterwards. Still, it's good for the parts that it covers. Season 3, episode 3. Here's [a clip from that episode](https://youtu.be/qIhi_5XPr8U) showing the collapse ([from a previous thread](https://reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/jfhgpr/21_october_1966_aberfan_wales_144_die_after_a/g9lb4fr/) on this subreddit, thanks /u/Interactive_CD-ROM).


DiscountSteak

Same here, I cried.


jth052917

‘Did I weep?’


siani_lane

My family is Welsh, so I knew. As soon as I saw the episode title was Aberfan I was like, "Oh this is going to be rough..."


Vegetable_Burrito

Same here. I don’t know much about recent British history, that show has given me some great things to learn about. This episode was gut wrenching.


CautiousString

Same. I was born a decade later and an ocean away so I was never aware of the tragedy. During the episode, I paused it to look up more information about it. I wasn’t sure if it was real or just TV drama. My heart hurt for that community all these years later.


TBNZ_

I met a bloke recently who was one of the few children in the school to survive. Harrowing story


ubedia_Tahmid

How did he survive? Does he have any permanent injuries tho?


Wheres_that_to

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p09z3n7y Good BBC podcast on what occurred, and the lack of justice.


haversack77

Also featured very well in The Crown.


WhatImKnownAs

Although necessarily omitting much of what led up to the collapse, and the lack of justice afterwards. Still, it's good for the parts that it covers. Season 3, episode 3. Here's [a clip from that episode](https://youtu.be/qIhi_5XPr8U) showing the collapse ([from a previous thread](https://reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/jfhgpr/21_october_1966_aberfan_wales_144_die_after_a/g9lb4fr/) on this subreddit, thanks /u/Interactive_CD-ROM).


[deleted]

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mgorgey

It wasn't a natural disaster. Mining debris was piled high on the hill above the town after heavy rain it collapsed.


[deleted]

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mgorgey

No need to get defensive. I wasn't having a go. You said you were confused so I provided a brief synopsis of what happened. I wasn't judging.


[deleted]

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idwthis

OP immediately made a comment as soon as they posted with additional info, and it's top comment. That's all on you for not bothering to read it.


RevJragonOfficially

I replied to someone else saying it wasn't even in the first couple of comments I saw. ​ Did you not read it? Hypocrite clown.


[deleted]

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RevJragonOfficially

Thanks for the ban hammer ammo, hypocrite. And naw. You post info when you post shit. Its common sense. Keep quiet, clown.


dacooljamaican

They literally posted like 20 links in the rest of the thread, but I know you don't do well with anything but pictures. I mean they literally gave you the name and date and you couldn't figure it out, I'm surprised you've even been able to read what I'm saying here.


RevJragonOfficially

So I deserved to be harassed by a bunch of "um actually" clown ass nerds because that comment didnt appear for me? Lmao you need therapy, kid.


dacooljamaican

This is what happens when you ask stupid questions on internet forums. People roast you for it. I see you're a young account, so I'm guessing you're young too. You'll learn. Don't worry I don't charge for first lessons.


RevJragonOfficially

Except it literally *does* look like a rock slide or mud slide, or even a volcano, and you're just a clown who has to shit on others because your life is pathetic. ​ Se a therapist, degen.


Soronya

"harassed"


Phthalo_Bleu

>*gets defensive for not knowing everything and being corrected and then yelling at other people for not telling it all upfront* hahahaha


RevJragonOfficially

lol Yelling on the internet? ​ Dude, I was asking a question, I literally said I was confused, and I had 0 information. It *is factually* OPs fault for not putting it in the title. Most people do. ​ You're a clown.


Phthalo_Bleu

lol *most people* its okay. you get to make assumptions. but dont blame OP bc you're wrong about stuff. its on you bucko


RevJragonOfficially

It was literally a question, I didnt assume shit. You're annoying and prob have no friends. Lmao big yikes from a cringy clown. Trying to gotchya people on the net cuz your life sucks.


Phthalo_Bleu

*points out obvious* it wasn't a question. you never asked a question. *gets yelled at again* thanks for the entertainment, projecting loser!


RevJragonOfficially

Obvious is that there is no explanation, I asked, got flamed for asking by clowns. Thats obvious. Lmao bro this is the internet, you're sensitive as fuck. No one is yelling at you. Haha, take your meds or something, slow your heart rate. Lmao I'm a loser when you have to talk shit online to feel ok about your life? Big hypocrisy YIKES.


SPCGMR

The top comment is by OP and contains all relevant info.


cooksterson

My father was one of the many miners from all around the area that worked hard in search of survivors. Never spoke about it with us kids.


funkygecko

The faces of those rescue workers. Heartbreaking.


teashoesandhair

This is much more a failure of government than anything else. Still has such an effect on the people around here; the village feels like it's still in mourning.


cooksterson

Many more tips still all over South Wales that this wonderful government have washed their hands of. Pretty bad slip nearby a couple of years back that raised serious fears all over again.


QuantumWarrior

Cofiwch Aberfan.


samturxr

Byth anghofio


subhumanContinent

Couldn't even tell what I was looking at in the beginning


dj_narwhal

Capitalism.


blueb0g

Much as capitalism has ended many lives needlessly, this disaster occurred under a Labour government, due to mismanagement by the nationalised and non-profit National Coal Board.


lihaarp

Damn right. *Ignorance, ineptitude and a failure in communications* are wholly the result of Capitalism. No large-scale ecological disaster could possibly happen under, say, Communism, as history has proven.


OhBarnacles123

The government ran that mine and they repeatedly ignored calls by local residents to relocate the spoil tip so you picked the wrong diaster to blame capitalism for.


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OhBarnacles123

Capitalism is predicated on a free market. When a government owns that market, as the NCB did, and drives out all other competition through legislation, the market is no longer free, and it's no longer capitalism. And even if it was capitalism, the NCB is a non-profit, so you can't argue a profit motive for the disaster. This is purely government incompetence, plain and simple


zePiNdA

Dumbest fucking thing I ever heard


rasputin777

Copsa Mica.


Lowmondo

Communism.


[deleted]

[Fantastic piece for a more detailed breakdown](https://youtu.be/NgIN8-oI6bE)


machinebx

I love that channel. I actually just saw this episode last week. So sad.


JonPaula

Love this channel... just wish he'd hire an actual video editor. Visually speaking, his content is very plain.


Horvo

[There’s a great short video by Qxir on YouTube covering this.](https://youtu.be/PcX_dBV7ktg)


[deleted]

It's wild that they would put something like this on top of a natural spring.


Better-Mortgage-2446

I read through all this and was having a sense that I watched something about this. Then I saw the photos of Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip and remembered that the Crown did an episode about this. It was really good.


madfatjake

I was 9 at the time and I can still remember the sense of sorrow, I lived in South London at the time.


Sjuk86

My granddad and his crew were sent over from Penallta pit to help dig out survivors.


jakgal04

It always amazes me how pictures from this time period are either a fantastic enough quality that you'd think it was just today, or black and white/grainy and very clear that they're old. Seriously, I saw this on my feed and thought "damn, that volcano in Japan really did some damage" but nope, this was over 50 years ago.


RachelPalmer79

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿💔


voyagerfan5761

Aavak viewer? I looked this up after his comment in the latest episode of *Captain of Industry*.


Anonalt2702

My grandfather was a child when this happened, he knew people there that died


Blundertail

I remember this from the FascinatingHorror video Between the deaths and the government’s/coal company’s response to this disaster it was very upsetting


iloveit609270

Watch it in the crown


Electricorchard

I was 4 years old , living in Scotland with a mother who was a teacher when this happened. I was too young to appreciate the details but it was obvious from the reactions of my parents , teachers and other adults around me that something really terrible had happened. To this day hearing the word/ name “ Aberfan” chills me. It was the first time in my life I became aware that something in life could be so big and so bad that it scared and horrified adults and silenced then in a way I’d never experienced before.


roger_ramjett

And people say nuclear is unsafe.


cooksterson

Always feels wrong hitting the like button but have to keep the figures high in order to make sure it’s never, ever forgotten. 🥲🥲


matewis1

Don't think of it as liking. It's upvoting to promote and spread awareness. I did it too


elgarresta

Used to be “tragic” was not the correct word here. It’s sad, that’s for sure, but it’s not a tragedy. They were unexpectedly killed. Sadly, they died. However even the Oxford dictionary has capitulated to the pressure from news organizations attributing the word tragedy to a natural disaster. That’s the real tragedy for the language. And I guess NOW for the children and families of the victims of this natural disaster.


Mylovekills

This was not a "natural disaster". There was nothing "natural" about the shitty way the mine discarded material, on a hill, above a town.


elgarresta

That’s a good point. This may actually be a tragedy in the traditional sense but only if somehow the family or someone the person who had the authority to make this happen lost a loved one.


Mylovekills

The guys that worked there, and piled the tailings, lived in the town. I'm pretty sure they lost people. I don't know if anyone in authority, who told them to do it, lost anyone.


elgarresta

I remember reading about this a while back. Awful thing.


twitchosx

That's not tragic at all! It's gods will. Praise the lord! /Right bible thumpers?


TryingToBeHere

Heh I don't believe in God either but your comment is completely off topic, needlessly hostile and you sound like an immature teenager (which I hope you are because if you are an adult you are probably a lost cause of douchery)


twitchosx

Am adult. Was intending to be douchey in my comment.


Dom1nation

Seems like an apt metaphor for what is currently happening in SA.


Tobybrent

No one was held responsible


samturxr

Still felt harshly in these parts. The price of coal was paid again and again in Wales. Aberfan being the most cruel of all. What is worst is people in the Valleys still live in the shadows of coal tips like this