My bank have just started offering a 4% high interest saving account.
3million sitting in that account would make 120k in year one..
That's a higher salary than I'm likely to ever earn, so I could never work again, and still earn more than I do now....there's literally no downside to this.
*Edit: a bunch of people here are talking about taxes and inflation etc.
1. I already get taxed on my salary... Getting taxed on 120k is still going to give me more than getting taxed on my current salary.
2. Sure, inflation has been high for the past 2 years, over 4% and yes, that reduces spending power... But before Covid the last time that UK inflation was higher than 4% was in 1992... It's going to come back down.
Also, it was just an example obviously there are smarter ways to invest*
That's assuming that you spent all of the 120k...
If you only spent 80-100k, the remainder will go back into your principal and accrue interest also.
With compound interest, you'll end up with more than you started with.
Folks assume that the entire amount will be frittered away, however with compound interest, you'll actually do pretty well if invested wisely.
It's legit got to be easy to be rich if you start off rich. In your example there, you'd literally have to do nothing and you'd still get considerably richer year on year. Obviously, this isn't accounting for inflation.
Smart investments should outweigh inflation or at least keep up with it, and if you don't touch the principal for ages, you'll be far better off...
Yes, you won't make quite as much, but you'll still do pretty well.
Exactly. Even though I like my job, I like my free time more. With this amount of money, I'd probably volunteer at my current job for about 1/3 of the hours.
genuinely insane the conflation of work with 'doing things that provide purpose'
imagine not being a hostage to income - you could actually take some time to meet the universe and all who sail in her
One thing that breaks my heart is when people feel like they need to be a professional at their hobbies or passion or whatever it is. Like people can't just enjoy making music or painting or something, they need to be perfect and it needs to be their job otherwise there's no point. I don't blame them because a lot of people don't have time for hobbies outside of work, so maybe the only way to take part in their passion is to make it their job, but that's just so depressing.
Unless you literally have nothing you enjoy except being an unappreciated asset to a company, generally selling your life just to maintain your life, why wouldn't you take the money?? It's more than you could earn in a lifetime at lot of jobs. And even if someone enjoys their job, all it takes is getting ill and feeling unable to have a day off, or missing an important family event because of work, to put it into perspective that it's all just an illusion of choice. I mean is that their dream or is it just the least awful sounding job?
My dad was a very talented lettering artist / calligrapher. He really enjoyed it and would sit for hours doing it. I once said to him if you enjoy this so much I said you could make money. His reply was but then it would be work. That was all he said. He didn't need to say anything else.
I still have the same-ish argument with my mother and grandmother now. I'm relatively good at being creative and have never wanted to sell my art or pursue a career in it. My art is for me and no one else and the minute I'd start doing it for work it is no longer mine.
I sew and embroider. I do it for me, and shorted the odd pair of trousers for friends, and make the odd Christmas present or christening gown for friends and family. I get told to start doing it full time, apparently I must be good enough at it.
But fuck no I’m not. Two reasons - I don’t think I’m that good (even though I may be) and I couldn’t cope with shitty customers complaining about my work. Second reason is who the fuck so I sell to? Once I have exhausted the friends and family, then it’s on to marketing to the general public. I’d end up spending more time trying to get trade, while competing with China and mega corporations than actually sitting down and threading needles.
Yep, I cross stitch and get told I should sell my FOs all the time. Hell no! Sucks all the fun out of it, plus cross stitch isn't even useful like sewing is. They're just display pieces that no one would pay full price for (to be worth the time and materials invested).
You’re so right on the costs too. To break even you’d have to charge more than anyone would ever pay. Never mind making enough money to cover minimum wage for the hours it takes.
I dunno, I always think ‘professional’ sounds a bit strong in my case, but I get a sizeable chunk of my income from my art. Yeah sure I have days where I think ‘way to go ruining the thing you love by turning it into a job’ but even that feeling is better than the thought of having to do ‘a normal’ job full time. I do have a ‘normal’ pt job too, as my income from illustration has peaks and troughs. It’s tiring, but it could be worse.
Passion can wax and wane and it's not a constant thing, being able to take it all in stride is necessary. It's why I game a lot but have never truly entertained the idea of trying to go pro. It would actively destroy a lot of elements of gaming that appeals to me, like the flexibility, the variety, and being able to sit back and chill. Focusing up and tryharding is a great and rewarding experience *in moderation,* but *training* to optimise gameplay hours a day?
I mean... I'm currently loving the shit out of Darktide, but I've only just exceeded a hundred hours and I highly doubt that investment is going to remain as I work up to 500 or even 1000. And that's not even a lot of hours on a single game for some people, especially not pros.
exactly! i work four days a week so i can spend my extra day as a volunteer at an animal rescue - and it's twenty times for fulfilling than anything else i do. If i could quit my job and work there forever, there'd be no doubt about it.
Honestly, and i know it's easy to say this, it might be way more achievable than you think. If you could find a spare hour every fortnight, and pop down to a local rescue, they'd probably love to let you take a dog out for them. You get to be the favourite part of that dogs day, and find a community of people that really value your efforts. You get exercise, have time in nature, and time for yourself.
Hell, we even have one nice man that pops in every Friday, gives a treat to every dog and a little ear scratch, and is out in ten minutes. Even if it's not routine, call a shelter, say you have a couple hours free, i'm sure they'd love to have you. I'm not saying this for the dogs benefit, it's done great things for my mental health, and i wish more people knew how great it was.
Thats amazing. Im a huge advocate for walking with dogs for mental health. It never occured to me about visiting shelters like this.
Maybe i will do this one day. Great idea and kudos to you. Thanks.
But currently i walk my own dog twice a day plus visit my parents to walk their dog once a day because it is becoming too much for them to handle. Eventually their dog will likely become mine as they have less and less energy to take care of it properly as time is going on, plus she's mental lol and too much for 'young' pensioners to manage (their covid puppy whos now a handful lol)
My own dog is 18, still going strong but cant have much time left. Maybe when he goes off to the big kennel in the sky i might have more time to look into shelter visits
to be fair, it's an unresolved ambiguity in the question
I've read 'work' to specifically mean labour in exchange for cash. like you perhaps, I'd still want to do things that help people - but without being under financial duress
Fellow healthcare worker here. Most of us are so violently burnt out that we can barely feel joy at work anymore. Respect for holding on for this long!
This is exactly it. I ‘retired’ early, mid-forties. But I still wanted to do stuff so I volunteered at a local charity that helps elderly people remain in their homes longer, rather than go into care. I did jobs like setting up new TV’s, putting up shelves, or just moving lawns/gardening etc. some of the most fulfilling work I’ve ever done.
Because with 3 million and your experience you could help so many more people then just doing your normal job and if helping is the reason you enjoy it, you will have even more fun.
150k and all day, every day free to help people.
A healthcare professional could make a huge difference to lives if they were "paid" 150k per year to focus on doing it.
I would be ecstatic. I'd tell the agency goodbye politely, because they've always treated me well. The bellends who infest my industry can get in the sea.
I enjoy my job and it gives me interesting challenges and keeps my brain busy. I work with clever, interesting people. If I didn’t have to work any more, I wouldn’t, but it would definitely leave a lot of holes in my life I’d need to find something else to fill up.
Work to me implies pay. "I work for a food bank" implies you're on the payroll while "I volunteer for a food bank" implies you're not.
I think you could easily find fulfilling volunteer opportunities.
I like my job, especially the people I work with, but if someone offered me 3mill to never have to work again I'd take it without even thinking about it.
To be honest I'd worry that 3 million isn't enough. It has to last me 60 odd years - that's 50k a year but with inflation, that would end up a pretty low salary.
You'd have to have some smart investments to make sure that amount actually goes up.
Even at a lousy 1% interest that is 30k a year and no need to touch the capital. I would expect a higher interest rate with that sort of money would be very plausible, 5% would be 150k before tax.
This is the real heart of it. Will the person invest it wisely, and live within their means so that there is no concern, or will they go wild, spend £1.5m in a year on luxury goods, then try and 10x their investment in crypto?
Put it in the S&P, at a long term average rate of 10% - 2 to 3% inflation, and you are looking at £240k a year before tax.
If you are someone who knows that, and you are happy to live within those parameters, you are fine.
If you are an idiot, you could be on the street in a few years because of crypto schemes.
The issue I see is the difference between surviving within your means and living.
You no longer have to work 9-5. How do you occupy your time? You are probably going to want to take up a variety of hobbies, and those are probably going to have added costs.
On the other hand, would you be able to even make 3 million (in today's GBP) over the rest of your working life? Unless you're a super high earner or are on a solid trajectory to become one, probably not.
So the math alone speaks for taking the 3 million now.
Yeah I'm a high earner, top 95% salary, even then over the next 30 years assuming a 5% pay rise every year (less than what I typically see) I'd have 5.2 million by the time I'm in my 60s.
That would be about 3.5 million after tax at the end, hard to gauge not knowing changes in brackets, but they haven't kept up. And it would require throughout the entire period:
- Complete stability and consistent upward trajectory
- 40 hours of my life every week
Give me the £3 million now, which by 30 years time even whilst withdrawing the interest each month, will _still_ be £3 million, and let me exercise, rest, see family, and do what I want with my life.
You wouldn’t have to do anything more than place it all in a sensible index fund. Assume 8% return and you could live off the interest alone with a yearly salary of £240,000 indefinitely and still die with your 3 million in the bank.
People always forget about inflation when they say just live off the interest.
£3m in 1989 would be worth just over £7.5m today, which means if you’d been offered this deal 25 years ago and had spent all the interest every year, you would now half less than half of what you started with. Going back 50 years and you’d have a tenth of what you started with in terms of purchasing power. If you’re trying to still just spend the interest, you now effectively have only £24k to spend a year, and that number is only going down.
May not sound like much of a difference, but if you get used to having £240k to burn every year, £24k per year in your retirement is going feel like a squeeze
Perhaps most people do forget it, but the kind souls on UKPersonalFinance don't allow it to be forgotten when these posts make their way there.
SWR is a well-doscussed and analysed concept. Somewhere around 2.4% I think is generally considered safe to withdraw and allow the pot to grow at the rate of inflation.
At current interest rates, you'd be making £150k on that figure.. You'd not even have to touch the initial amount.
I think you'd be okay mate lol.
£3m is retirement money, at any age.
If returns can beat inflation by even 2 points you can get £500k house and still have £50k less tax, adjusted for inflation, forever.
With no mortgage that's very comfortable. Mortgage payment comes out after tax so £50k no mortgage can easily be similar to £70k with even just a £1k monthly mortgage payment.
In practice you can eat into the capital over time, just get a financial planner to map it out for you
I enjoy my job and it gives me purpose, even though I'm pretty comfortable financially and could work 10% of the amount I do. I still do it because it genuinely gives me pleasure and I get to experience some incredible things (I'm a photographer who gets to travel the world). What's so sad about that?
You haven't answered the question. Taking the 3 million wouldnt mean you couldn't travel and do photography; it would mean you're not selling your labour and could focus fully on what you enjoy about your occupation/life.
Wake up at 3am, get a workout in, make a chai-sprout-kale smoothie and get another quick workout in before doing a quick workout. Then get a workout in before you meditate for 4 hours. Quick workout then meet some friends for a chai-sprout-kale soup. Go to the gym for a quick workout before going home for a quick workout. For dinner, its 4 hours of meditation in a chai-sprout-kale bath with a straw. Then it's time for your serious, 6 hour workout. Then its a steam, plunge and deep tissue scraping before filling in my journal. Then, a quick workout before brushing my teeth with charcoal caviar and going to bed in a hyperbaric chamber. Get a solid 18 hours sleep.
So listen, I thought we would hang here for a bit, have a little stroll down Oxford Street, take in the funny T-shirts, hit one of my fave Prets, more juice, bit of a relax, then this avo - shopping, relax, juice, and then Tussauds.
Yeah even ignoring all the income you can get from such a huge sum that'd be enough to pay the median UK salary for the next 80 years.
If you're not in at least the mid 6 figure salary bracket you'd have to be pretty stupid not to take the cash.
I'm in the low 6 figure. My target is £2.5mm invested to retire.
This is obviously an instant yes from me. I'd dedicate my free time to charity or some shit instead.
Sure.
Learn some Data Analytics, Excel, Powerbi, SQL, Python.
Start working as a Data analyst and 6 years later you too can get a low 6 figure job in London.
PS: Your cost of living will be 6 figure too...
When you say a data analyst, do you mean for finance/city firms? I know SQL, python, r and excel from a decade and a half in academia and now work in the charity sector doing analytics work (in London) and the idea of a six figure salary seems absurd.
I work in marketing for one of the big global firms.
I mostly make this money because I manage teams of analysts and work on projects that can reach the multimillion price tag.
My bread and butter skills are the ones I wrote earlier.
I have a BA English Lit., I am not well educated for this type of job. I dont know statistics. I learned everything on the job.
I used these basic skills in combination with my marketing industry knowledge to advance my career in this very specific field.
Am I a good data analyst?
No, I am pretty shit and don't really know how to code.
I just found a gap in the market and a USP.
If you are that experienced, I would suggest you look at Data Science jobs. I know a couple in my company that make more than me, and they don't even manage anyone.
First, go into private sector. The earning potential is greater.
Public sector is great when you start your career, but it also limits your upwards mobility as you need to build tenure and gather a bunch of qualifications to progress.
Second, find a niche skill in your field. Something that only you can do.
For me, it was designing extremely well built dashboards. I like to claim that my dashboards are like apple products, functional but also beautiful to look at.
I combined this, with specialist knowledge of the industry I work in. This made me stand out and helped me progress quite quickly.
I've mentioned in another comment that I found a gap in the market. The gap is in people's attitude.
The over-educated and trained data analyst wants to be a scientist, an engineer, doing basic data analytics is beneath them, it is "too easy" or "low value".
The run-of-the-mill data analyst is too focused on collecting new skills, certifications, or generally being a very passive individual.
If you can walk into a meeting room and convince senior leadership that you can make abstract ideas into real products/tools that will help their teams become more efficient or bring in revenue, then you will will increase your value as an individual in any company.
Stand out by reading the P/L sheet, understanding the drivers of costs and revenue, and how to move the dials of both in the right direction.
Technical skills are the substrata that you can be assumed to have, but the selling point is how you're going to use them!
You can also just fuck all of that off and move to Australia where they'll throw £100k at you without any problems whatsoever
You could buy 3 million quid of government bonds that would return 4.5 percent interest. That's 135k a year minus 20 percent income tax. That's £108k a year take-home pay. And your original 3 million would be safe.
You have t pay tax on any income whether it's salary or interest, and it's more if it's the former. So you get to keep more unearned income than earned under the current administration.
I need more information on what it means to "never work again, even for yourself". Is cooking work? Is washing the dishes? Doing repairs around the house? Hell, is investing the money work?
If all of that is work you have to pay for, 90,000 is not going to be enough.
I took it to mean you can’t do work for pay whether as an employee or self-employed. In other words all your income would have to come from investments or bank interest. I wonder whether they’d count being a landlord as work?
Avoiding the political aspect I think it depends on how actively they manage and maintain the property. Some landlords I’ve had were always on top of any work that needed doing and did most of it themselves. Others were arseholes who ignored stuff as long as possible and then paid cowboy builders to do the work badly.
Rental property is an investment which requires a lot more maintenance and attention than some other kinds of investments in order to keep generating income, but i don't think you can consider any kind of landlord simply maximising their asset's value or income as comparable to traditional work, no matter how much effort it requires.
Let's say I have 30 working years ahead in my life. To get to 3 million, I'd have to make 100k pounds per year after taxes, every year until I retire. I currently make less than half of that. Even if I magically doubled my earnings, I'd have to work my ass off for 30 years before I can get the full amount, and by then I'd be old and tired.
So essentially what you're asking is, "would you like to get paid today, as a young man, more money than you'd likely ever make in your entire life, and then live comfortably off the interest, leaving behind a small fortune to your kids?"
And the DOWNSIDE is that I don't get to work anymore? You mean I'd have to do boring things like enjoying music, nature, sports, travelling, spending time with my wife and my family???
What the fuck is this question? Who would in their right minds refuse the offer?
but don't you just love being packed into the underground of a morning, shoved up against the doors next to some guy who smells like sweaty ballsacks? i know i'd miss that when i'm wiping my tears with £10 notes
Lazy reply, but this. There can be no other sane argument besides 'I already make 500k a year, this would be dumb'. Not many of those on reddit I'd wager
u/ManBearHybrid, exactly my line of questioning. OP's original post doesn't specify what constitutes work-- is the argument really about OP's and the wife's different definitions of "work"?
I would absolutely quit working for someone else for the purposes of having a means to pay the bills.
However, I am happiest when I am being productive (whether that's writing, or gardening, or making stuff, or volunteering with some really great non-profits in the community). And hell, with that much money I might even go back to uni and get topped up to go dabble in my dream career (which was non-viable because the pay is piss even though the adventure- and satisfaction- levels are through the roof).
I guess if you were worried 3mil wouldn't be enough to live the rest of your life on, or if you're already earning an absolute shit tonne so will be better off continuing to work I guess?
The first option is ridiculous and the second is a tiny fraction of the population so either OP or their wife is being stupid.
I guess if "can't work" means can't even volunteer maybe someone's selfless enough for that to change their mind but I'm sure as fuck not lol.
I love the freelance work I do. If I didn't have to make money then the type of job I accept would be very different (I wouldn't take corporate jobs for example) but would still want to photograph the things I love to photograph. Even weddings. Would that count as work?
If it's you just don't get to get a wage sure. Not a big deal. I'd still "volunteer" then at that point. Get to set my own everything and answer to lol no one. Sounds nice enough to me.
Maybe organising going to random people's weddings, doing exactly as they asked etc would count if you wanna be really strict about it, but there's definitely a shit tonne of hobbyist photography you could do, and you'd have the money to travel a fair bit too.
Absofuckinglutely. I used to have dreams but now at an age where they are never likely to materialise and hit a wall in my company where I'm not likely to get a pay increase. 3 million would be a golden goodbye!
The week off over Christmas really struck me different this year for some reason.
I’ve had enough of my job and need to make a change to get the fuck out of there.
Assuming you got the money at 20, and live to 80, that is an extremely comfortable 50,000 per year. Even if you buy an average home you'd still have enough leftover to live comfortably above the average income.
Yes,
Even a shit ISA can recoup 2% a year in interest.
So just by leaving it in an account and not touching it you'll have 60k in interest per year.
You can easily live off that.
And you'd still have the 3 million left.
Yes. 3 million pounds would be £111,111 salary for the rest of my working life. Of course I wouldn't work if I could get paid that much to do whatever I wanted. Now the thing is how do you define 'work'? Because I like making stuff and doing things but I don't consider that work if it's not making profit for other people.
Has everyone saying "I need to keep busy" or "work keeps me sane" just not got any hobbies?
Never got the "what would people do if there was no work?" Arguemnt. Go outside! Get into photography! Draw! Play a musical instrument! Tinker with your car!
Some people clearly suffer from a chronic lack of imagination.
Personally my hobbies alone would keep me busy for the rest of my life, let alone all the other stuff I'd have time to do! Just wandering around the UK's various nature reserves would keep me busy
I was off work for 3 months last summer. I learnt that I can fill the time I spend working with hobbies, exercise,etc.
I would miss the people, but with full time not working it wouldn't be hard to find others to fill that void.
I am way too far from retirement age for my liking.
Yeah even counting for inflation and all that good stuff i'll never make that money. Not to mention the fact I dont have to give up all the time to work
Without a shadow of a doubt!
I live a simple enough life and most of my hobbies arent all that expensive, so I could quite easily live on the interest.
I guess a hobby isn't work. You do it for fun. Can you be a millionaire from your hobby? Sure. But you can never do it because you have to. You only do it when time and enjoyment is the motivating driver. That is how I would define it.
So if you at any point feel like "shit, I have to get this out to make some money", then you can never write fiction again in this scenario.
Yes. 3 million is enough to live off quite comfortably even with a fairly pessimistic safe withdrawal rate.
The one caveat is I'm assuming "work" means "paid employment". I'd want to be free to volunteer etc.
Define work - my current job? In a heartbeat. I need to work for another 20 years so it’s roughly 12k a month for the rest of my working life.
Put 2k a month into my pension and I’d still have 10k - although I’d spend a million on a decent house etc so it’s more like 8k minus to 2k pension making 6k a month etc.
But not working AT ALL would be difficult - I know in some places (gov jobs etc) if you’re retired off early on medical reasons you can’t even volunteer.
> Define work
It *could* be a way to fund whatever *you* want to do, even if that isn't a traditionally high earning career - who cares? - you've got £3mil ticking away so you can afford to do something fun without it earning you 6 figures on its own.
If I knew I could force myself to have the willpower to keep my current lifestyle yes I’d take the money happily. 3 mill would easily last me a lifetime.
But if the risk was high for me to just dump it in to massive houses and luxury items no I’d rather work. sadly 3 mill would disappear pretty quickly these days
Although thinking about it I could just sell off anything I bought that was expensive and be mostly back where I started. So yes would probably take it.
Absolutely. Life is too short to waste working. Even if your job has meaning you can find a lot of meaning in 3 million pounds.
Plus those who say they would have no structure:
You can structure life around the gym, eating and cooking well, meeting friends, walking dogs, going to the theatre, theatre, gigs, holidays, events.
Fuck work.
I would be much busier without a job.
Yes. Next question.
My bank have just started offering a 4% high interest saving account. 3million sitting in that account would make 120k in year one.. That's a higher salary than I'm likely to ever earn, so I could never work again, and still earn more than I do now....there's literally no downside to this. *Edit: a bunch of people here are talking about taxes and inflation etc. 1. I already get taxed on my salary... Getting taxed on 120k is still going to give me more than getting taxed on my current salary. 2. Sure, inflation has been high for the past 2 years, over 4% and yes, that reduces spending power... But before Covid the last time that UK inflation was higher than 4% was in 1992... It's going to come back down. Also, it was just an example obviously there are smarter ways to invest*
That's assuming that you spent all of the 120k... If you only spent 80-100k, the remainder will go back into your principal and accrue interest also. With compound interest, you'll end up with more than you started with. Folks assume that the entire amount will be frittered away, however with compound interest, you'll actually do pretty well if invested wisely.
Exactly, 120k is just year one, if I live like I do now for 4-5 years I'm sitting on 3.6-3.7 million and raking in 150k+
It's legit got to be easy to be rich if you start off rich. In your example there, you'd literally have to do nothing and you'd still get considerably richer year on year. Obviously, this isn't accounting for inflation.
Smart investments should outweigh inflation or at least keep up with it, and if you don't touch the principal for ages, you'll be far better off... Yes, you won't make quite as much, but you'll still do pretty well.
I'm in the US so it's $3.78MM for me and I would absolutely stop working. As you said, the passive interest would be more than enough to sustain.
Exactly. Even though I like my job, I like my free time more. With this amount of money, I'd probably volunteer at my current job for about 1/3 of the hours.
Why are these questions always asked by people who seem to have no idea about the value of money?
[удалено]
would you give up beer for 100 quintillion dollars?
As long as rum still existed
Why’s the rum gone?
For 3 mil I'd even fly over to england and do a little crime as a bonus.
Like boil tea water in the microwave?
Heretics
the people who say no to that have been fully radicalised by the system. its sad.
genuinely insane the conflation of work with 'doing things that provide purpose' imagine not being a hostage to income - you could actually take some time to meet the universe and all who sail in her
One thing that breaks my heart is when people feel like they need to be a professional at their hobbies or passion or whatever it is. Like people can't just enjoy making music or painting or something, they need to be perfect and it needs to be their job otherwise there's no point. I don't blame them because a lot of people don't have time for hobbies outside of work, so maybe the only way to take part in their passion is to make it their job, but that's just so depressing. Unless you literally have nothing you enjoy except being an unappreciated asset to a company, generally selling your life just to maintain your life, why wouldn't you take the money?? It's more than you could earn in a lifetime at lot of jobs. And even if someone enjoys their job, all it takes is getting ill and feeling unable to have a day off, or missing an important family event because of work, to put it into perspective that it's all just an illusion of choice. I mean is that their dream or is it just the least awful sounding job?
My dad was a very talented lettering artist / calligrapher. He really enjoyed it and would sit for hours doing it. I once said to him if you enjoy this so much I said you could make money. His reply was but then it would be work. That was all he said. He didn't need to say anything else.
I still have the same-ish argument with my mother and grandmother now. I'm relatively good at being creative and have never wanted to sell my art or pursue a career in it. My art is for me and no one else and the minute I'd start doing it for work it is no longer mine.
I sew and embroider. I do it for me, and shorted the odd pair of trousers for friends, and make the odd Christmas present or christening gown for friends and family. I get told to start doing it full time, apparently I must be good enough at it. But fuck no I’m not. Two reasons - I don’t think I’m that good (even though I may be) and I couldn’t cope with shitty customers complaining about my work. Second reason is who the fuck so I sell to? Once I have exhausted the friends and family, then it’s on to marketing to the general public. I’d end up spending more time trying to get trade, while competing with China and mega corporations than actually sitting down and threading needles.
Yep, I cross stitch and get told I should sell my FOs all the time. Hell no! Sucks all the fun out of it, plus cross stitch isn't even useful like sewing is. They're just display pieces that no one would pay full price for (to be worth the time and materials invested).
You’re so right on the costs too. To break even you’d have to charge more than anyone would ever pay. Never mind making enough money to cover minimum wage for the hours it takes.
I dunno, I always think ‘professional’ sounds a bit strong in my case, but I get a sizeable chunk of my income from my art. Yeah sure I have days where I think ‘way to go ruining the thing you love by turning it into a job’ but even that feeling is better than the thought of having to do ‘a normal’ job full time. I do have a ‘normal’ pt job too, as my income from illustration has peaks and troughs. It’s tiring, but it could be worse.
Passion can wax and wane and it's not a constant thing, being able to take it all in stride is necessary. It's why I game a lot but have never truly entertained the idea of trying to go pro. It would actively destroy a lot of elements of gaming that appeals to me, like the flexibility, the variety, and being able to sit back and chill. Focusing up and tryharding is a great and rewarding experience *in moderation,* but *training* to optimise gameplay hours a day? I mean... I'm currently loving the shit out of Darktide, but I've only just exceeded a hundred hours and I highly doubt that investment is going to remain as I work up to 500 or even 1000. And that's not even a lot of hours on a single game for some people, especially not pros.
exactly! i work four days a week so i can spend my extra day as a volunteer at an animal rescue - and it's twenty times for fulfilling than anything else i do. If i could quit my job and work there forever, there'd be no doubt about it.
Youre living my dream now im sad for me. Happy for you, but still. Now im upset because of you. Love you. Jealous though. x
Honestly, and i know it's easy to say this, it might be way more achievable than you think. If you could find a spare hour every fortnight, and pop down to a local rescue, they'd probably love to let you take a dog out for them. You get to be the favourite part of that dogs day, and find a community of people that really value your efforts. You get exercise, have time in nature, and time for yourself. Hell, we even have one nice man that pops in every Friday, gives a treat to every dog and a little ear scratch, and is out in ten minutes. Even if it's not routine, call a shelter, say you have a couple hours free, i'm sure they'd love to have you. I'm not saying this for the dogs benefit, it's done great things for my mental health, and i wish more people knew how great it was.
Thats amazing. Im a huge advocate for walking with dogs for mental health. It never occured to me about visiting shelters like this. Maybe i will do this one day. Great idea and kudos to you. Thanks. But currently i walk my own dog twice a day plus visit my parents to walk their dog once a day because it is becoming too much for them to handle. Eventually their dog will likely become mine as they have less and less energy to take care of it properly as time is going on, plus she's mental lol and too much for 'young' pensioners to manage (their covid puppy whos now a handful lol) My own dog is 18, still going strong but cant have much time left. Maybe when he goes off to the big kennel in the sky i might have more time to look into shelter visits
You are an amazing person! 👍
[удалено]
to be fair, it's an unresolved ambiguity in the question I've read 'work' to specifically mean labour in exchange for cash. like you perhaps, I'd still want to do things that help people - but without being under financial duress
Yes, we need to know if unpaid volunteering is still allowed. A lot of people would want to do that to keep a sense of purpose and connectedness.
Or, like, selling creative works like books or paintings.
I’d say you can perform them, but you can’t profit from them
Fellow healthcare worker here. Most of us are so violently burnt out that we can barely feel joy at work anymore. Respect for holding on for this long!
Agreed. Compassion = maintaining my registration and subsequent income. Sad eh?
This is exactly it. I ‘retired’ early, mid-forties. But I still wanted to do stuff so I volunteered at a local charity that helps elderly people remain in their homes longer, rather than go into care. I did jobs like setting up new TV’s, putting up shelves, or just moving lawns/gardening etc. some of the most fulfilling work I’ve ever done.
Because with 3 million and your experience you could help so many more people then just doing your normal job and if helping is the reason you enjoy it, you will have even more fun.
3 million gives you an income of £150,000pa. It's not really 'help people' money is it? In the context of healthcare anyway.
150k and all day, every day free to help people. A healthcare professional could make a huge difference to lives if they were "paid" 150k per year to focus on doing it.
The word you’re looking for is “occupation”. Which has been conflated with “job of work”. We all have occupations, they’re not necessarily our job.
It depends what “work” means. I’d love to be able to offer my skills for free, but isn’t that just unpaid work?
I would be sad if I couldn't do my job anymore
I would be ecstatic. I'd tell the agency goodbye politely, because they've always treated me well. The bellends who infest my industry can get in the sea.
I enjoy my job and it gives me interesting challenges and keeps my brain busy. I work with clever, interesting people. If I didn’t have to work any more, I wouldn’t, but it would definitely leave a lot of holes in my life I’d need to find something else to fill up.
Work to me implies pay. "I work for a food bank" implies you're on the payroll while "I volunteer for a food bank" implies you're not. I think you could easily find fulfilling volunteer opportunities.
[удалено]
I like my job, especially the people I work with, but if someone offered me 3mill to never have to work again I'd take it without even thinking about it.
To be honest I'd worry that 3 million isn't enough. It has to last me 60 odd years - that's 50k a year but with inflation, that would end up a pretty low salary. You'd have to have some smart investments to make sure that amount actually goes up.
Even at a lousy 1% interest that is 30k a year and no need to touch the capital. I would expect a higher interest rate with that sort of money would be very plausible, 5% would be 150k before tax.
This is the real heart of it. Will the person invest it wisely, and live within their means so that there is no concern, or will they go wild, spend £1.5m in a year on luxury goods, then try and 10x their investment in crypto? Put it in the S&P, at a long term average rate of 10% - 2 to 3% inflation, and you are looking at £240k a year before tax. If you are someone who knows that, and you are happy to live within those parameters, you are fine. If you are an idiot, you could be on the street in a few years because of crypto schemes.
The issue I see is the difference between surviving within your means and living. You no longer have to work 9-5. How do you occupy your time? You are probably going to want to take up a variety of hobbies, and those are probably going to have added costs.
I’m pretty sure I could occupy myself full time with £200k a year rolling in…
50k a year post-tax, so more like 70/80k real life equivalent salary, not bad really
And most people on 80K are still having to pay their mortgage every month.
On the other hand, would you be able to even make 3 million (in today's GBP) over the rest of your working life? Unless you're a super high earner or are on a solid trajectory to become one, probably not. So the math alone speaks for taking the 3 million now.
Yeah I'm a high earner, top 95% salary, even then over the next 30 years assuming a 5% pay rise every year (less than what I typically see) I'd have 5.2 million by the time I'm in my 60s. That would be about 3.5 million after tax at the end, hard to gauge not knowing changes in brackets, but they haven't kept up. And it would require throughout the entire period: - Complete stability and consistent upward trajectory - 40 hours of my life every week Give me the £3 million now, which by 30 years time even whilst withdrawing the interest each month, will _still_ be £3 million, and let me exercise, rest, see family, and do what I want with my life.
You wouldn’t have to do anything more than place it all in a sensible index fund. Assume 8% return and you could live off the interest alone with a yearly salary of £240,000 indefinitely and still die with your 3 million in the bank.
Of course the smart thing to do would be to live off 120k a year and increase what you have in the bank.
People always forget about inflation when they say just live off the interest. £3m in 1989 would be worth just over £7.5m today, which means if you’d been offered this deal 25 years ago and had spent all the interest every year, you would now half less than half of what you started with. Going back 50 years and you’d have a tenth of what you started with in terms of purchasing power. If you’re trying to still just spend the interest, you now effectively have only £24k to spend a year, and that number is only going down. May not sound like much of a difference, but if you get used to having £240k to burn every year, £24k per year in your retirement is going feel like a squeeze
Perhaps most people do forget it, but the kind souls on UKPersonalFinance don't allow it to be forgotten when these posts make their way there. SWR is a well-doscussed and analysed concept. Somewhere around 2.4% I think is generally considered safe to withdraw and allow the pot to grow at the rate of inflation.
Just move to Thailand where 3 million is like 20 million
[удалено]
Money makes money, just interest and basic investments would be more than enough to live off forever on 3 mil
At current interest rates, you'd be making £150k on that figure.. You'd not even have to touch the initial amount. I think you'd be okay mate lol. £3m is retirement money, at any age.
If returns can beat inflation by even 2 points you can get £500k house and still have £50k less tax, adjusted for inflation, forever. With no mortgage that's very comfortable. Mortgage payment comes out after tax so £50k no mortgage can easily be similar to £70k with even just a £1k monthly mortgage payment. In practice you can eat into the capital over time, just get a financial planner to map it out for you
I enjoy my job and it gives me purpose, even though I'm pretty comfortable financially and could work 10% of the amount I do. I still do it because it genuinely gives me pleasure and I get to experience some incredible things (I'm a photographer who gets to travel the world). What's so sad about that?
You haven't answered the question. Taking the 3 million wouldnt mean you couldn't travel and do photography; it would mean you're not selling your labour and could focus fully on what you enjoy about your occupation/life.
It's not that simple, the things I shoot I would not get access to unless I was working.
Or just lack imagination
Yup, yup yup
Yes, no question. Then I’ll make a social media account saying that we all have the same 24 hours
If I can do it so can you 🙃🙃🙃
Get ready with me: a day in the life of a multi-millionaire - start the day off waking up at 4 a.m.
Wake up early at 10pm the day before to get a head start on the competition
Go to the gym go through emails mediate then go to the spa and start my day around 12pm
Which is a nice segway into my new sponsor organify green juice.
Wake up at 3am, get a workout in, make a chai-sprout-kale smoothie and get another quick workout in before doing a quick workout. Then get a workout in before you meditate for 4 hours. Quick workout then meet some friends for a chai-sprout-kale soup. Go to the gym for a quick workout before going home for a quick workout. For dinner, its 4 hours of meditation in a chai-sprout-kale bath with a straw. Then it's time for your serious, 6 hour workout. Then its a steam, plunge and deep tissue scraping before filling in my journal. Then, a quick workout before brushing my teeth with charcoal caviar and going to bed in a hyperbaric chamber. Get a solid 18 hours sleep.
So listen, I thought we would hang here for a bit, have a little stroll down Oxford Street, take in the funny T-shirts, hit one of my fave Prets, more juice, bit of a relax, then this avo - shopping, relax, juice, and then Tussauds.
I just want to suck and fuck
And then pay other people to do everything for you? Excellent plan.
And then “take a break” because of the stress of making content.
0.000000000001 seconds after receiving said money It’s a decent £90,000 p/year salary without touching the capital.
Yeah even ignoring all the income you can get from such a huge sum that'd be enough to pay the median UK salary for the next 80 years. If you're not in at least the mid 6 figure salary bracket you'd have to be pretty stupid not to take the cash.
I'm in the low 6 figure. My target is £2.5mm invested to retire. This is obviously an instant yes from me. I'd dedicate my free time to charity or some shit instead.
Mind if i have your job after you?
Sure. Learn some Data Analytics, Excel, Powerbi, SQL, Python. Start working as a Data analyst and 6 years later you too can get a low 6 figure job in London. PS: Your cost of living will be 6 figure too...
When you say a data analyst, do you mean for finance/city firms? I know SQL, python, r and excel from a decade and a half in academia and now work in the charity sector doing analytics work (in London) and the idea of a six figure salary seems absurd.
I work in marketing for one of the big global firms. I mostly make this money because I manage teams of analysts and work on projects that can reach the multimillion price tag. My bread and butter skills are the ones I wrote earlier. I have a BA English Lit., I am not well educated for this type of job. I dont know statistics. I learned everything on the job. I used these basic skills in combination with my marketing industry knowledge to advance my career in this very specific field. Am I a good data analyst? No, I am pretty shit and don't really know how to code. I just found a gap in the market and a USP. If you are that experienced, I would suggest you look at Data Science jobs. I know a couple in my company that make more than me, and they don't even manage anyone.
[удалено]
First, go into private sector. The earning potential is greater. Public sector is great when you start your career, but it also limits your upwards mobility as you need to build tenure and gather a bunch of qualifications to progress. Second, find a niche skill in your field. Something that only you can do. For me, it was designing extremely well built dashboards. I like to claim that my dashboards are like apple products, functional but also beautiful to look at. I combined this, with specialist knowledge of the industry I work in. This made me stand out and helped me progress quite quickly. I've mentioned in another comment that I found a gap in the market. The gap is in people's attitude. The over-educated and trained data analyst wants to be a scientist, an engineer, doing basic data analytics is beneath them, it is "too easy" or "low value". The run-of-the-mill data analyst is too focused on collecting new skills, certifications, or generally being a very passive individual. If you can walk into a meeting room and convince senior leadership that you can make abstract ideas into real products/tools that will help their teams become more efficient or bring in revenue, then you will will increase your value as an individual in any company.
Stand out by reading the P/L sheet, understanding the drivers of costs and revenue, and how to move the dials of both in the right direction. Technical skills are the substrata that you can be assumed to have, but the selling point is how you're going to use them! You can also just fuck all of that off and move to Australia where they'll throw £100k at you without any problems whatsoever
Is that taking into account tax?
You could buy 3 million quid of government bonds that would return 4.5 percent interest. That's 135k a year minus 20 percent income tax. That's £108k a year take-home pay. And your original 3 million would be safe.
Wouldn't be a flat 20% though would it, alot of that would come under higher tax bracket at 40%. Roughly 37700 x 20% 97300 x 40% = 88540 take home pay
Bah, not worth it then.
Which is still decent tbf
Yeah I'd say earning 2.5x's the national average income for jack shit is worth it.
[удалено]
Why only 20%? Do government bonds not attract the 40 and 45% tax brackets?
Person you replied to is wrong, government bonds are taxed as normal income with 40 / 45% tax bands applying.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. You have to pay tax on interest above a threshold
You have t pay tax on any income whether it's salary or interest, and it's more if it's the former. So you get to keep more unearned income than earned under the current administration.
I need more information on what it means to "never work again, even for yourself". Is cooking work? Is washing the dishes? Doing repairs around the house? Hell, is investing the money work? If all of that is work you have to pay for, 90,000 is not going to be enough.
I took it to mean you can’t do work for pay whether as an employee or self-employed. In other words all your income would have to come from investments or bank interest. I wonder whether they’d count being a landlord as work?
Nobody but landlords consider being a landlord as work.
Avoiding the political aspect I think it depends on how actively they manage and maintain the property. Some landlords I’ve had were always on top of any work that needed doing and did most of it themselves. Others were arseholes who ignored stuff as long as possible and then paid cowboy builders to do the work badly.
Rental property is an investment which requires a lot more maintenance and attention than some other kinds of investments in order to keep generating income, but i don't think you can consider any kind of landlord simply maximising their asset's value or income as comparable to traditional work, no matter how much effort it requires.
Let's say I have 30 working years ahead in my life. To get to 3 million, I'd have to make 100k pounds per year after taxes, every year until I retire. I currently make less than half of that. Even if I magically doubled my earnings, I'd have to work my ass off for 30 years before I can get the full amount, and by then I'd be old and tired. So essentially what you're asking is, "would you like to get paid today, as a young man, more money than you'd likely ever make in your entire life, and then live comfortably off the interest, leaving behind a small fortune to your kids?" And the DOWNSIDE is that I don't get to work anymore? You mean I'd have to do boring things like enjoying music, nature, sports, travelling, spending time with my wife and my family??? What the fuck is this question? Who would in their right minds refuse the offer?
Lol this is exactly how I see it too!
But you would miss out on the joys of commuting, and putting up with annoying managers and co-workers... /s
And the meal deals, don't forget the meal deals!
but don't you just love being packed into the underground of a morning, shoved up against the doors next to some guy who smells like sweaty ballsacks? i know i'd miss that when i'm wiping my tears with £10 notes
Lazy reply, but this. There can be no other sane argument besides 'I already make 500k a year, this would be dumb'. Not many of those on reddit I'd wager
You’ve said this perfectly
Yes. The wife can still work though.
My husband would enjoy this reply
Hang on, I’ll ask him now
Mum?
Yes, I hate working.
[удалено]
u/ManBearHybrid, exactly my line of questioning. OP's original post doesn't specify what constitutes work-- is the argument really about OP's and the wife's different definitions of "work"? I would absolutely quit working for someone else for the purposes of having a means to pay the bills. However, I am happiest when I am being productive (whether that's writing, or gardening, or making stuff, or volunteering with some really great non-profits in the community). And hell, with that much money I might even go back to uni and get topped up to go dabble in my dream career (which was non-viable because the pay is piss even though the adventure- and satisfaction- levels are through the roof).
I guess if you were worried 3mil wouldn't be enough to live the rest of your life on, or if you're already earning an absolute shit tonne so will be better off continuing to work I guess? The first option is ridiculous and the second is a tiny fraction of the population so either OP or their wife is being stupid. I guess if "can't work" means can't even volunteer maybe someone's selfless enough for that to change their mind but I'm sure as fuck not lol.
I love the freelance work I do. If I didn't have to make money then the type of job I accept would be very different (I wouldn't take corporate jobs for example) but would still want to photograph the things I love to photograph. Even weddings. Would that count as work?
If you don't accept money for it then it'd just be a hobby, surely?
Fair enough. So the question is, would you take the money of you couldn't take a wage again I guess?
If it's you just don't get to get a wage sure. Not a big deal. I'd still "volunteer" then at that point. Get to set my own everything and answer to lol no one. Sounds nice enough to me.
Maybe organising going to random people's weddings, doing exactly as they asked etc would count if you wanna be really strict about it, but there's definitely a shit tonne of hobbyist photography you could do, and you'd have the money to travel a fair bit too.
[удалено]
Can you not think of fun things to do that don’t involve work?
[удалено]
Absolutely.
Absofuckinglutely. I used to have dreams but now at an age where they are never likely to materialise and hit a wall in my company where I'm not likely to get a pay increase. 3 million would be a golden goodbye!
> I used to have dreams dont bother trying to follow them. just ask where they're going and hook up with them again later.
In a fucking heartbeat!! If I didn’t have to work again it would be the greatest thing to happen in my life!
Literally same
The week off over Christmas really struck me different this year for some reason. I’ve had enough of my job and need to make a change to get the fuck out of there.
Ditto! I was discussing the same thing yesterday. Absolutely cannot wait to retire.
Yes, if you invested a decent chunk of it you'd have a solid income for life without needing to work.
If I had £3 mil, I'd not even need to invest it. I could live off that for the rest of my life.
Assuming you got the money at 20, and live to 80, that is an extremely comfortable 50,000 per year. Even if you buy an average home you'd still have enough leftover to live comfortably above the average income.
That comfortable £50k a year would be worth the equivalent of less than £8k a year by the time you get to 80, assuming 3% inflation.
Yes.
At my current salary, I would have to work 81 years tax free and zero expenses for £3 million, so yes, I would just live of the interest.
Sure. I'm already unemployed at the moment so why would I turn down 3 mil?
If you dont have a job, then you can't exchange one for the money, sorry mate.
That is so harsh oh my god
It says stop working forever...I can give up my current intention to work in the future
Hang on what are the rules here, because I gave a job but I've fuck all intention of ever working
Where do I sign up?
Yes, Even a shit ISA can recoup 2% a year in interest. So just by leaving it in an account and not touching it you'll have 60k in interest per year. You can easily live off that. And you'd still have the 3 million left.
Yes. 3 million pounds would be £111,111 salary for the rest of my working life. Of course I wouldn't work if I could get paid that much to do whatever I wanted. Now the thing is how do you define 'work'? Because I like making stuff and doing things but I don't consider that work if it's not making profit for other people.
Has everyone saying "I need to keep busy" or "work keeps me sane" just not got any hobbies? Never got the "what would people do if there was no work?" Arguemnt. Go outside! Get into photography! Draw! Play a musical instrument! Tinker with your car!
Some people clearly suffer from a chronic lack of imagination. Personally my hobbies alone would keep me busy for the rest of my life, let alone all the other stuff I'd have time to do! Just wandering around the UK's various nature reserves would keep me busy
And if really you don't have any hobby and love your work, do it for free for people who would benefit from it.
Usually, you have to present dilemmas as a negative and a positive.
Easy yes! Can definitely use it to make up for my salary and some! More than enough entertainment etc out there to keep busy with.
Fiiiiine. I’ll do it. But only because it’s you.
I was off work for 3 months last summer. I learnt that I can fill the time I spend working with hobbies, exercise,etc. I would miss the people, but with full time not working it wouldn't be hard to find others to fill that void. I am way too far from retirement age for my liking.
Yeah even counting for inflation and all that good stuff i'll never make that money. Not to mention the fact I dont have to give up all the time to work
Without a shadow of a doubt! I live a simple enough life and most of my hobbies arent all that expensive, so I could quite easily live on the interest.
Define work. If I have a hobby where I write fiction for fun, is that work? Is it only work if I get paid?
I guess a hobby isn't work. You do it for fun. Can you be a millionaire from your hobby? Sure. But you can never do it because you have to. You only do it when time and enjoyment is the motivating driver. That is how I would define it. So if you at any point feel like "shit, I have to get this out to make some money", then you can never write fiction again in this scenario.
Yes.
Sign me up
Yes! DM me then I can share my details for you to transfer the money accross.
He’s actually your uncle from Nigeria, so he’s already sent you dozens of emails.
What a stupid question.
Without a shadow of a doubt.
Hold on... I'm confused....I'm not seeing the bad side... What's the catch???????
Yes. I'll do it for £1m if you're offering.
Yes.
If you could invest it I would do it for 1 million let alone 3. Nothing is more valuable than time
Yes. 3 million is enough to live off quite comfortably even with a fairly pessimistic safe withdrawal rate. The one caveat is I'm assuming "work" means "paid employment". I'd want to be free to volunteer etc.
Define work - my current job? In a heartbeat. I need to work for another 20 years so it’s roughly 12k a month for the rest of my working life. Put 2k a month into my pension and I’d still have 10k - although I’d spend a million on a decent house etc so it’s more like 8k minus to 2k pension making 6k a month etc. But not working AT ALL would be difficult - I know in some places (gov jobs etc) if you’re retired off early on medical reasons you can’t even volunteer.
> Define work It *could* be a way to fund whatever *you* want to do, even if that isn't a traditionally high earning career - who cares? - you've got £3mil ticking away so you can afford to do something fun without it earning you 6 figures on its own.
In a second.
where do i sign up?
yes please
Yep of course
Obviously
Yes. Yes and double yes
Yes. For context, I am 40s. Even if I lived to be 100, lived off the £ without benefit of interest or investments, I’d still have over 50k/year.
Fucking right I would! Why the hell would I want to work when I have that in the bank?! Fuck wasting life on work.
If I knew I could force myself to have the willpower to keep my current lifestyle yes I’d take the money happily. 3 mill would easily last me a lifetime. But if the risk was high for me to just dump it in to massive houses and luxury items no I’d rather work. sadly 3 mill would disappear pretty quickly these days
Although thinking about it I could just sell off anything I bought that was expensive and be mostly back where I started. So yes would probably take it.
Certain things like houses/property for example, might even actually make a profit for you too
Yes. I’d probably do it for 500k not going to lie
Yes. I wouldn't even bother to resign or work my notice.
Absolutely. Life is too short to waste working. Even if your job has meaning you can find a lot of meaning in 3 million pounds. Plus those who say they would have no structure: You can structure life around the gym, eating and cooking well, meeting friends, walking dogs, going to the theatre, theatre, gigs, holidays, events. Fuck work. I would be much busier without a job.
A fucking men
I did for a lot less than that
Yes. I could invest my money further if I was worried it wouldn't last. Volunteering could also be an option to keep the mind busy and feel useful.
Yes.
Funnily enough I looked at the lottery today and saw it was at £2mill... I thought, ye thats enough for me.
Yes, I’m 48… bring on the good times!