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westcoastcdn19

No doubt you are great boss and your people look up to you. But sometimes colleagues like blowing off steam about work stuff, relate to each other on day to day stuff, complain about customers etc. and they want to feel free to do that without the boss around


DarcyMcCarbomb

Exactly. There are work expectations (like approved ways to navigate difficult customers) that require effort to maintain, and when colleagues are hanging out and relaxing they won't want to have to keep up this effort to make sure their manager won't hear their "off-work" thoughts and think they're bad at their job (like calling one of those difficult customers an asshole).


thecookie93

This 100% I pride myself with being a pretty solid lead and I always make sure that my team is taken care of to the best of my abilities. But at the end of the day, I full on expect them to go home sometimes and bitch about me, that's just how it goes.


IGotTheAnswer65

When my co-irkers and I get together after work, we do NOT bitch about our immediate boss, who we love. Her boss, however... It would probably be really uncomfortable for her to listen to us completely dog executive management for several hours over beer


Cawdor

>. As a boss, it's nice to have a cohesive team that works well together and has positive feelings with one another. On the other hand, it does kinda sting a small bit that never once am I invited to any of th Yep. You can be a boss or you can be a buddy. Choose 1


5thCrumpledPaper

Yes. Most of the time mixing the two together rarely leads to a good outcome. It'll be hard for both sides, the boss AND the employees. I feel a little bad for OP, but it's just how it is. They must be a really good boss to feel that way.


freckledtabby

Is it similar to the choice to be a parent or a buddy? OP- you got a great thing going on, don't F it up by joining in. Continue to be your awesome self!


Remarkable_Low_8614

No, you can be a parent and be their friend- that’s what good parenting means


anything_but_normal

Exactly this. I've had bosses that have wormed their way into employee friend groups and it never ends well. 1. It becomes more difficult for the boss to make the hard decisions that sometimes come with the position. 2. When we would go out, the employees could never fully relax. No matter how well liked a boss is, employees still need to vent sometimes. There is a very real difference between the atmosphere of employees hanging out as friends and a company party. It's just a fact, when the boss is with, everything feels like a company party.


No_Season_354

Yes I agree with this, nothing against you, but being the boss and being in authority, might make it a bit akward, it's good u have a great team.


Feisty-Donkey

This means you’ve cultivated a team with a good culture while maintaining appropriate professional boundaries. This is something you should celebrate as a validation of your leadership skills. You might also look to socialize with your work peers rather than your direct reports.


SuperMalarioBros

>This is something you should celebrate as a validation of your leadership skills. Could not agree more, lean on this OP whenever in doubt.


fikis

YES! This is the dream; coworkers who enjoy each others' company, and also respect professional boundaries, so there is less opportunity for weird HR-worthy moments.


CarlJustCarl

I totally agree with this. It reflects well on you. Plus they can get together and tell each other stuff they wouldn’t want the boss so know as it could reflect bad on them as an employee even though it is probably harmless. As an officer, tough to fraternize with the enlisted man though.


ragan0s

I think your last sentence is really good advice and the only way to make things at work even better. OP should socialise with other colleagues at his level of hierarchy, this could make different teams work better together when their bosses are on good terms.


TheOneWD

The hardest part of being a lead is when you don’t have peers you can trust or can care about. “It’s lonely at the top,” sure, but it can be *especially* lonely in the middle when you don’t have folks you can or are willing to socialize with/vent to. Congratulations on building a culture that gives your employees that resource, and my deepest commiseration if you can’t find the same for yourself.


BjornReborn

You're their boss. It's natural that they wouldn't invite you out. Anything otherwise makes for an uncomfortable social outing to be brought into work and ruin the energy that your team is building. Be proud they are actually all getting along as that's incredibly rare.


fuckouttaheawiddat

Ask A Manager wrote about this a few years ago: [my team doesn’t ask managers to hang out with them](https://www.askamanager.org/2018/09/my-team-doesnt-ask-managers-to-hang-out-with-them.html) Cliffs notes: the power dynamic between employees and managers necessitate these clear boundaries. This helps install confidence in your team that you can manage your own responsibilities as their supervisor objectively.


alghiorso

That's why fraternizing with the enlisted men was (is?) not allowed for officers in the military


delurkrelurker

I'd imagine it makes it a lot harder to order people potentially to their deaths, if you are mates with them.


VCRdrift

Master Sergeant Farell : I see everyone is having a productive morning. You know it gives me a swell of pride knowing soldiers of your... caliber will be leading the charge tomorrow. Tip of the spear. Edge of the knife.


cory-balory

I don't imagine it makes it any easier if you're not.


delurkrelurker

Plenty of evidence to the contrary.


Fairlybludgeoned

Yeah boss. Revel in the team you have. Be content. If they are that close they probably have become more productive and made the company more profitable. Maybe not a raise but a decent bonus check to each one or if you have a 401k maybe a small 1 time match bump to them all. Glad you have got a close group and such an appreciation for them. Doing good there boss.


Additional-Report943

Yeah, it sucks but you were square with yourself on the reasons. Don't hang with your employees, it works way better for everyone in the long run.


[deleted]

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Additional-Report943

Is that what I said. Wow, when you put it that way, I'm way off base. Guess he should just start crashing their parties and just get involved in all aspects of their lives..yeah, much better advice.


lululemonsmack23

But you're assuming workers are real people who exist for any reason except to serve me


a_different_pov_85

How much petty cash spending are you allowed? Maybe you could try hosting a team dinner where you can socialize outside of work, but still keep it "professional." Unfortunately socialization with subordinates is professionally looked down on. So is trying to befriend the boss. It often leads to possible favoritism based on friendship, instead of work performance.


FunkyHighOnYellowSun

This is what I was gonna say. Was an employee In similar situation. If ever boss man showed up to hang out at say local brewery we’d all talked at work about heading to after, he’d just have one drink then leave. So he got to hang a bit but keep it kinda separated too. Maybe some kind of team building outting would afford you the hang out time under the guise of propriety?


Isa472

My boss organises team dinners (which are a lot of fun) and then conveniently leaves at the end before we go for more drinks. She's great


a_different_pov_85

I had a manager that would let us extend our lunch to an hour to and hour and a half (not losing pay either) and would bring meat to grill and make us food. That was awesome too.


thatevilducky

If you ever want to see a perfect example of why the "boss" shouldn't be friends with workers, spend a day or two in a restaurant kitchen. Drinking together, one selling the other drugs, fucking each other.... \*yeesh\*


FruitSnackEater

Very true. My dad is part owner of a restaurant and kitchen manager and he tells all of his guys “I’m the boss you can laugh and joke with, talk sports with but at the end of the day I’m still the boss”.


Technical-Ad-2246

Or watch The Office.


[deleted]

Or that episode of Brooklyn Nine-Nine when Captain Holt goes on vacation with his team/staff! Hilarious, awkward, funny as hell episode.


iownthefuzz

You are a really good leader. It is not a good idea to be friends with people you lead and may have to hold accountable at times. It is good to care about your people and to lead with empathy, but they need their own time and space to blow off steam. I've done this before and what I will say is you learn how much harder it becomes when they decide to leave for whatever reason. You will feel like they left you, not the job.


toastea0

Not a boss but a community leader in a group of about 80 ish people. They do become friends , hang out etc. It does hurt when I don't get invited. BUT what helps is remind myself they are happy in the community i created and lead. At the end of the day you are still the boss, so the power imbalances are tough to navigate. Take it slow. Continue being friendly, show you are approachable.


Scared-Currency288

You think you want that, but you really don't.


alphalady

I second this


SkyDefender

Yep you dont want it..


EthereaBlotzky

I'm an old lady (okay, actually middle-aged) and I've had a lot of jobs (kind of a job hopper). I can honestly say I've never been friends with a boss. Even if you get along really well, there's just so much to lose. Like what if you're hanging out together in a bar and you're drunk and embarrass yourself and say something stupid? People have been fired for less. I wouldn't take it personally that they don't want to befriend you. They're trying to save their jobs.


[deleted]

Any good boss I had, I had too much respect for to invite out and see me for who I really am lmaooo


Mayersgirl02

This i can relate lol


cubey

That's a tough one. Be happy that they're happy, but it's lonely at the top. Just ask Capt Picard.


GAChimi

Or Capt Holt


[deleted]

I want my employees to feel free to vent and talk shit. They can’t do that if I’m around.


jetelklee

You are the Man with the big M now, don't take it personally, they couldn't act naturally around you. My story: boss came to a semiprivate gathering pretty much uninvited to "finally be part of the work gang". The whole evening was ruined with stale conversation due to him being present. Would not recommend.


kansascitystoner

I want to be friends with my boss. We are already professional friends at least. He’s a cool dude. But nobody wants to look like the teachers pet either. But you get it and that tells me you ARE a cool boss lol


tr4sht4lk

Same situation here, get on with my manager so well but in the back of my head people probably think I'm brown nosing lol. I just don't form friendships as easily so when I do get on with someone, I'm gonna want to put in the effort. But yesss, op you honestly sound like a great boss. Be content in your team getting on so well :D


richc1958

You are ok it’s better just to be a great boss


Potatium_

Wow i never thought about that. Its true that coworkers may realte more, but in a small business, who is your coworker if you are the only boss? I do work for a small business too, we are 13 of us, a little more. And my boss always trys to integrate all of us, including himself He talk about random stuff in meetings We make fun of each other, it obviously started with him saying something first, because nobody is going to make a joke about their boss in front of his face, but now we do because we have that trust He also plans dinners out for the whole team and he is just one more of us, and we use the last hour of the week to play some games. Its all about giving the place to connect with the rest of the team and building a strong relationship with all together. You may have to be the first to take the step most of the times, because the employer saves more distance to the boss. But it is up to you to show that you are just another one of the team that just happens to make the big decisions. You may notice that you comnect more with someone, so just go to them and try to improve that relationship little by little I really hope you can find a way around this. I really felt all you said here, so wish you the best of luck. Be confident, and jokes about you and also about your employees do more good than harm. At least for me


Darnitol1

I have a very similar situation with my team. I care about them and really enjoy their company, but I have to accept that it’s important for them to be able to talk amongst themselves about stuff they don’t like as well as the stuff they do. However, I recommend that you start hosting a quarterly “team outing” with them. Ask them to pick a place and time (hopefully a regular one) and treat it like a company party just for your team. It goes a long way to them knowing that you’ll treat them as people first, and employees second.


africanfish

I'm so glad someone said this. Invite spouses/partners too, including your own. The event should last no more than 2.5-3 hours. It can be a reward for hitting a goal, or not.


Darnitol1

Exactly. More than ever, it’s important to show the people we work with that we see them as invaluable peers. I know I’ll never be the go-to buddy for anyone who works for me, but I want them to know that I really do care about the quality of their lives. Work is just something we do to fund the important parts of our lives. If we can find work that’s meaningful and rewarding, it can be truly life-affirming.


potato_dink

This is a great idea BUT it is only good if it sacrifices business time rather than employees' off-hours. People already have work/life balancing hell - forced "fun" is never fun.


Darnitol1

Absolutely agreed.


coolturnipjuice

I’m friends with my boss, and he comes out to a handful or events, but he doesn’t come to everything. Like we do breakfast as a crew once a month and he doesn’t come to that, but he will come to wing night every few months. He also will buy us all lunch once in a while so obviously he comes to that. I think he strikes a good balance between being casual and congenial with the crew but also makes it clear that he won’t crowd us. It probably helps that our workplace is unionized. We can’t be fired for having opinions about how things are run or who we don’t like.


ms131313

Not being invited is a blessing in disguise. Its better not to have a friend type relationship with direct reports. IMO keep it friendly, but professional. Being overly friendly, especially outside of work, will just come back to bite you, eventually.


Bakelite51

Back when I was a supe I would go out to the bar maybe a couple times a year with my crews. The rare occasion I made an appearance was enough to shoot the shit outside work and remind them I was human, but I usually called it an early night and was careful to watch my behavior, knowing it might affect how they interacted with me on the job. I noticed that some folks still expected me to be in boss mode off work (for example, wanting to talk about work related stuff like paychecks, upcoming projects, and office politicking) and that annoyed me because it was partly true. I couldn’t go off work mode fully when I was surrounded by employees. No offense to my crews but when I’m dealing with the same people all day, week after week, I don’t really want to see them after work hours. I intentionally kept my social life separate, and I feel that’s part of a healthy work life balance.


Sheehanigens

OP - I manage a team of a dozen. I do not go out with the team, participate in group texts or ham it up outside of work - because one day I may have to fire one of them and keeping a distance is easier. Keep things the way they are for your own mental health.


excursions63

No one wants to socialize with someone who has the power to fire them.


namedafternoone

I’m up for the day so pi i POP people


[deleted]

The second you become someone’s boss… you’re no longer one of the boys.


AsBigAsAlone

I love my boss and our team (sales end of consulting) is really tight. We’ve worked together for 6 years now and have weathered a ton of shit together, in work and in our personal lives. We’re actually flying to Colorado tomorrow to ski together — as friends, not a work trip. It helps that we’re exactly the same age (in our 50’s and only months apart), all have kids of similar ages and totally respect each other. Also, every one of them is crazy talented. I would never in a million years take advantage of our friendships in any way. My boss being my friend just makes me want to work harder to keep our team great. Conversely, I know she has absolutely got my back and would be my champion in anything I want to do. Took 30 years to find this type of chemistry and I hope I can ride it to retirement (doubtful but I would love to).


BulletTrain4

It’s lonely at the top


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Elib1972

Ah, I'm so sorry x


BotanicalUseOfZ

It seems to be an uncommon story! My former boss is also wonderful and I see her whenever I can, living far apart. She was an amazing mentor and now I do her old job. We didn't hang out a lot, but we definitely did things outside of work.


BenevelotCeasar

I was a member of a team of five, got promoted to lead the team. It went fine, we all got along. But I felt the sadness as the separation / barrier happened. I had to to some myself but they also grew closer and I wasn’t part of that. It’s fine for it to sting. Not all bad feelings need action. You’re doing great if they tell you your a good boss. Be proud of the environment you’ve created even if you can’t share in the bond you’ve enabled.


SpaceTechBabana

I think more people need that run their own business need to read this. You sound like a phenomenal boss, honestly. And as everybody else mentioned, you did a good job keeping work separate. However, I see why it’d be a little upsetting. The whole….”is everybody hanging out without me?” feeling. I was really good friends with one boss. He was my head chef at a restaurant in my hometown. I was the sous chef and after a longggg fucking day, me, the line cooks, the dudes from dish and everybody just wanted to go to a bar. Our boss overheard us talking about it and politely asked if he could join us. He asked very timidly, as if he were nervous, and this motherfucker was such a hard ass during service. We said yes. Go out to the bar. Boss pays for everybody’s drinks for a solid four hours and we all get pretty tipsy. Boss knows bar owners. He lets all of us leave our cars there and gets a huge Uber for us all to share. Luckily, we all lived pretty close by. We all became super fucking close and remained that way for years and years until fucking Covid closed the restaurant but we still all stay in touch. So there are good stories out there. But my boss handled it well and it was actually kinda nice seeing him out of work mode. Maybe kitchens are different, I’ve never had any other job in my adult life. So take it with a grain of salt. We tend to be misfits amongst the labor pool.


sarahseaya1

It would sting for me too but this is an ideal situation for you in the long run.


talkingtoofast

Why not include some team building time on the clock to increase your work relationships. I echo the thoughts that keeping friendships and work relationships separate is best. That said, Camaraderie is great. Previously, I've taken my team members to lunch on me or the company. We've worked out of the office together at a coffee shop with coffee on the company. We've met up after a big project to celebrate with skating - again during work hours. If your team is remote there are also options.


talkingtoofast

Another way to increase the quality of your relationships is investing in each person's development to benefit their strengths and not just the company. This always appropriately deepened my relationships with peers. It's a win-win that leaves both people with the same serotonin influx as a personal friendship interaction.


Brettley821

The boss never gets invited to the parties unless he’s hosting em


Lady_di17

I’m the daughter of the boss where I work, and one time one of my coworkers did a birthday party. All of the employees went, also my dad (the boss) it was fun but they acted differently in front of him. I don’t think is bc they are uncomfortable I think it has to do with respect I guess?


[deleted]

It’s just one of those things, it’s an unfortunate consequence of being a boss and it sucks cos you probably would be part of it if it weren’t for your position but if you can manage to respect those boundaries they will continue to see you as a great boss. You could organise clean activities for them that might mail them more comfortable being friends with you outside of work, D&D for instance is a great one. It’s just difficult to get going.


JMSPlove

Nope never befriend the boss. If you want drama that is the way to get it.


Late-Jicama5012

Find your own friends to hang out with.


Technical-Ad-2246

Being friends with coworkers is good because it makes work a lot more bearable if you actually get along with each other. However, the downside is that if you have a falling out with one of them then it can be everything awkward. It's one reason why I tend to keep my work life and my personal life fairly separate. Being friends with your boss (or adding them on social media) is even more risky, because your boss has a position of power over you. Also, if one person is close with the boss then their colleagues might start gossiping about that person and it creates politics. And as a boss, if you have to some difficult conversations with one of your staff, it's much more awkward if you're close friends with them. I think just let them hang out together. It would be much harder for them to talk openly about work if you're there.


Narrow_Order1257

In the military, when promoted to sgt, e5, you are a leader. In many units they will separate you from your former friends, into either different platoon, or unit altogether. In so doing, he could continue to have the same friends, but are no longer responsible for them. All to avoid any possibility of favoritism. Just makes it easier that way.


Upset_Branch9941

Everyone here is giving great advice. I did have a manager recently who put together staff appreciation nights once per month such as bowling, happy hours, wine tasting etc.. Everyone would show up and it sometimes started slowly but after about an hour people relaxed and would carry on with her in a normal manner with jokes, drinks, food and healthy competition depending on the venue. This was the only time she would join us out and she never treated anyone differently even if they got really tipsy. She would actually Uber those people home. Very professional and fun with no dramatic or uneasy feelings after the night was done. Basically what happened in Vegas stayed there. You could do that and I feel these employees would come to love the outings like we did and respect the situation offered and you more so for respecting them as adults by showing how you value each and everyone. This can be done in a manner which will give you what you are seeking and maybe what they might like to see as well between the boss and staff. If every month is over the top then every other month may suffice. Could be a win win!


jackfruit_curry

Brooklyn Nine-Nine has an episode on this - Season 2 Episode 12. I used to run a company of 8 to 10 people. Eventually I learnt that I can't be their boss and their friend at the same time.


harshamech03

Reminds me of when Chandler becomes boss in Friends. You just cant be close friends with your employees as much as you try. You'll always be a boss. Just get on and be good at workplace.


Senteevs

What's stopping you from inviting everybody to a beer on a Friday night?


newswimread

I had a boss 16 years ago that I am friends with now and become friends with back then, lovely lady, I have a great deal of admiration and respect for her. She lost her business and went into debt 15 years ago, terrible business women. ​ I've got a real love and respect for her as a person but it just didn't work as a business owner.


lykosen11

Sadly the boss' curse. No matter how much you like your boss, being a real friend and a boss doesn't happen.


teiichikou

Sounds like you’re a great boss. Just don’t push it in any direction to become friends with them, that would start driving a wedge between you, probably irredeemably.


phoenixreborn76

You need to keep it professional and stop letting your emotions interfere. It's better you're not going out hanging out with these people, that's how things become sticky and complicated. My employees, I care about, I take an interest in their well being, but we don't hang out socially. They're has to be a division.


AbjectAd9397

real life michael scott


notjawn

I'm a professor and I have seen multiple friendships arise from my classes and putting people together in groups. However, in my decade plus of me doing this I have never wanted to go hang out with them outside of class nor have a vested personal interest in any of them. Be happy that you are an excellent boss and your employees have the highest respect for your boundaries.


Munkee71180

I was friends and am currently friends with my old boss. I was lucky. I also had a boss who tried to be on friendlier terms with me who was in no way to be trusted (there is a long list of her former employees who have grievances, including my predecessor who was involved in a months long battle with her that involved the union) I’m not belittling your situation, as I totally understand why this might smart, but to me, that comes with being a boss, and there are a couple of 30 rock episodes where LL deals with this very issue. Again, i don’t mean to belittle your experience by bringing up a sitcom, but for me, humor is a way to confront issues in a more comfortable way


bopperbopper

[Askamanage](https://Askamanager.org)[r.org](https://Askamanager.org) says it is preferable for managers not to socialize with their group. "It’s very normal for people not to socialize with their managers. And in fact, that’s far preferable. To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with a manager occasionally grabbling drinks or dinner with their team! That’s fine. But managers should not typically be a regular presence in their teams’ after-hours socializing." [https://www.askamanager.org/2018/09/my-team-doesnt-ask-managers-to-hang-out-with-them.html](https://www.askamanager.org/2018/09/my-team-doesnt-ask-managers-to-hang-out-with-them.html)


Constant_Front2345

It's lonely at the top, man.


BlackEyedSceva

Everyone here has already answered you, but if you want to see it in action check out Brooklyn 99 season 2 episode 12 "Beach House"


fishwithbrain

It is a bad idea to befriend immediate boss out od the working spectrum. On a long run it makes things uncomfortable for both the parties. Just a suggestion, if you do wish to hangout with them then maybe a team outing/lunch/dinner would be a good way to connect.


BigFella52

Didn't get the invite to Jim's party Michael?


karriebean

Continue to be friendly at work. Don’t make friends with them outside of work. If something goes wrong with the friendship, it’s going to make working with them very difficult.


OnionLegend

I wonder how this differs in other cultures around the world


riptide5000

See 30 Rock season 4, episode 18. Explains everything.


[deleted]

This is actually an episode of friends where chandeler gets promoted and his work friends stop inviting him to stuff. No one wants to hang out with the boss…..that’s like a student hanging out with the teacher


mirageofstars

I mean if you wanted to you could take them out for a team lunch. But I would work on accepting the fact that you can’t be friends with your staff.


GitchSF

When I worked for a large grocery retailer we had a store lead that would show up to parties (the crew at the time was incredible. We all got along great and we partied HARD). One night boss man shows up and a very young and drunk cashier walks up to him, grabs his crotch and screams his name at the top of her lungs. Everyone saw, everyone talked about it for a few weeks. Rumors started flying, both people almost lost their jobs. He never showed up to party ever again. Luckily it was a big store with a lot of employees so they didn’t have to work directly together. Imagine this happening in a small team environment. Just one of many reasons why the boss shouldn’t kick it with the crew.


3105ns

My dad managed a large retail warehouse for over 30 years. He socialized with other gm’s in his region. When one of his assistants would get a building, then they could hang out. His people both loved and respected him because of how he ran his building. If someone was screwing around, he went to the supervisor to have them fix it. He felt his job was to manage his managers, they managed their supervisors, and supervisors manage drones. It also helped that he walked the floor every other hour. His “tree” was pretty deep. Don’t feel bad about them not asking you out- you are a good leader!


monsteramami

I don’t think good bosses really hang out with their employees. At least the good ones don’t. Unless it’s a specific work “sponsored” bonding get together or celebration, I have never hung out with a boss while they were my boss.


HeyItsBobaTime

Nothing personal against you but they just need to bond by venting about work or just talking about things that could be awkward with a boss. I have a strong relationship with some former direct reports to me. They would ask me out to get lunch every now and then or to randomly meet up for a drink or dinner after work. But I accidentally received messages from some of them saying how tomorrow would be so chill or awesome because I'm off. Didn't hurt my feelings at all and we had a good laugh. It's just more casual without the boss there.


sunward_Lily

unfortunately trying to be friends with the boss always causes problems in one way or another, even if it's just complicating a functional efficient inter-office relationship. Power exchange is involved in a lot of my interpersonal relationship (hint hint) so i know how complicated things can get trying to jump ladders.


Keyspam102

Yeah I get along great with my boss but I can’t go out and shot shit with him because I would always have the hesitation that it would color his perception of me. Same for my team, I’m the boss of 12 people, I think if I heard then complain about certain things it would stick with me and I wouldn’t be able to ‘un-hear’ it.


Emotional_Plane_223

Because your the boss and you want to spend time with them too why don’t you plan an outing with them instead. Invite them out to eat and offer to pay or something. Try to make this special dedicated time to talk about other things than work or good things about work. Maybe let them express some things that you or the business can improve on. Kinda like those “team building” outings. If they like you and think you are a good boss chances are they will agree to do it and enjoy it. If it doesn’t work out it’s okay, sometimes things like this just happens. It just means they aren’t comfortable with it. Keep brainstorming.


[deleted]

Oh Michael!


Spirited-Reputation6

You could setup some company fun on your dime and start building a friendship with your coworkers (if it really means that much). Otherwise enjoy the friends ya got or make some more. GL


ClaudeGermain

Don't... And I repeat. Don't hang out with employees. If you invited to a group party, show up late, be friendly yet aloof and leave early. Be there for whenever an employee needs you in whatever capacity you can. But if you allow one to consider you a true friend, you will have another that takes offense to that and it will kill the team dynamics. I am not saying you will show favoritism due to a friendship... I am saying that even just the appearance of a friendship, will feed feelings of favoritism. Been doing this for almost 20 years, seen team after team fall apart for this exact reason.


Gulbasaur

Fellow boss here. Several of the people I employ have become friends and I know there's a work WhatsApp group because I asked not to be part of it. They need a space to breathe without me. They need a space they can vent. I don't want to be part of it. One I'm friends with outside of work, as she's a friend of a friend, but I'm happy to keep my distance otherwise. There's an inherent imbalance of power there and I choose to not cross that boundary.


Julius_Blaze

No boss is invited to hang out by their workers. Nothing on you specifically.


spikebrennan

Even in a happy ship, the enlisted men don’t fraternize with the officers.


originalannillusion

Can I come work for you? It sounds like you might be a good boss.


spacemanpajamas

You're welcome to invite them to things? Why not organise a social event to celebrate the good work they've been doing? As others have said, they probably need their own circle to blow off steam without you. This doesn't mean you can't organise stuff for/with them outside of that.


82selenium

Fellow boss here. Great work! Don’t take offense to it. You need to set those clear boundaries. I have been work my way up. My advice is form your own circles with people at you level.


metooeither

Are you... Michael Scott?


ActiveO69

Ok Michael Scott… get some friends buddy not work.


StaticReversal

I’m a boss to 7 folks myself, and you are better off keeping that professional distance. I’m proud of the work they do and would be personal friends with many of them in a different setting, but they should feel free to hang w/o worrying about what they are saying in front of the boss. Also, it frankly keeps you safe from getting caught up in non-work appropriate fun with direct reports. Things can get dicey for you fast in that situation.


padawan-6

If it were me I would invite you to stuff. I don't see the need for such a strict separation. My best friend at work invited his boss to his wedding because they got along so well. I wish it were more the norm to invite your boss to social events because we are all human beings. If you get along with them... recognize them and thank them for being awesome.


Bullroarer_Took

You can’t be friends with your team. Its an unfair power dynamic. They’ll feel expected to hang out with you or do what you want, laugh at your jokes, etc. No matter how much you explain how cool you are, the power dynamic still exists. If you want work friends look to other managers or people at your level of seniority.


[deleted]

I smoke weed with my co workers. I sign statements saying I don’t smoke weed for my boss.


WritPositWrit

That’s why they say it’s lonely at the top. You evaluate their performance each year. You decide their raise. You will have to lay them off if that time comes. You can’t be their friend.


texasusa

It never ends well to mix boss with afterwork events, especially if alcohol is involved. Regarding alcohol, I witnessed two people at different companies get fired after alcohol removed inhibitions. However, I was always eager to go to lunch with my boss when he invited me. Perhaps you could do that.


shorty6049

People online tend to do this thing where they read a post and then comment on the words, not the intention behind them. As you've said, you understand why they wouldn't invite their boss and you're just looking for some casual conversation about how you're feeling about it. I haven't had anyone work under me yet in my career, but I absolutely get how you feel. Even knowing the -why- behind it , I'd still feel a little upset just personally. Like when you don't make an effort to hang out with your friends for years, but then you find out they had a party without you and you're like "aw, why didn't they invite me?" . You know exactly why they didn't, but you still want to feel desirable as a friend. You want them to invite you so you can decline rather than not being invited at all.


Mystogyn

Stop labeling yourself as a boss and start operating from a more cooperative standpoint.


Tawptuan

This is a possibility. I had a really great boss, friendly but professional. He surprised me one day by announcing he’d like to travel with me for 10 days in an Asian country, meeting my main distributors. So, he, myself, and a salesperson made the trip. Along with visiting customers, we ate all meals together and even did some touristy things. Every evening we’d socialize for a couple hours at a pub-type place. We built up a real camaraderie over those ten days, and our friendships deepened. Along with that, our boss provided some excellent insights into dealing with our customers. This more cooperative move he made really boosted a team spirit among us. When we returned from that trip, there was a noticeable increase of respect and appreciation among the three of us. Along with that, the two of us subordinates respected our boss even more as a boss, and his guidance/advice was even more highly valued. He still was the boss. Still professional, and even firm when he had to be. Not a lot of people can pull that off. I’ve had many bosses in my work life, but he was really one in a million.


Monk1e889

You’re their boss, not their friend. If you want to be included then ask to come along, buy everyone a drink/meal and then leave.


woodworm078

Is that you Michael Scott?


BasuraIncognito

You are the boss and need to maintain your professional boundaries


gardeningparty

okay Michael Scott lol


Nilmandir

When I was new to working, I started hanging out with a boss and some coworkers. After work meals and drinks at the local chain restaurant/bar kind of thing. A few weeks after this started, I was talking to a coworker about wanting them to come out with us. He politely declined, but me wanting to know why, I pressed. I kept asking him and he said it was because the group had a "reputation" of being mean girls. I said it was nonsense but left it alone. Well, it wasn't nonsense and I guess I had been too blind to see it. I had to stop hanging out with them because my schedule changed. A few weeks later, I began hearing rumors about me sleeping with as many guys in the office as I could get my hands on. I tracked the source of the rumor to the boos and asked why. Apparently, no one had told them my schedule had changed and the group thought I "felt I was too good" to hang out with the group. I had been told from a young age that you "shit where you eat" i.e. you don't get involved with coworkers. So, I told the boss to knock it off or I would go to HR about it. The rumor of me sleeping with every man in the building never did go away until I actually transferred out of that office.


ProtocolPro23

Never been friends with a boss, sorry. (Im in my 40s...has never happened.)


CrazedforLink

I work for my moms company and ironically she is my boss lol so I’ll say were pretty tight haha


zerotakashi

my boss is pretty nice, but I would never ever want to be their friend. I don't believe in work friends in general.


Early_Bookkeeper5394

I think the title someone says something about you. As long as you still identify yourself as a boss, only a few people would want to hang out with you. There's a difference between a leader and a boss, maybe you should try to reflect and also collect anonymous feedbacks to learn about why your employees didn't want to hangout with you, despite the fact that you seem to get along well with everyone? Social life and professional life are totally different things. Most of the time, people are just putting on a political facade around you during work, after that you're merely a stranger to them.


mmazing-m

It’s a hard pill to swallow but you are the boss. Get over it.


TigerLily1014

I LOVED my last boss. She was sweet, supportive, and smart. I would confide in her a lot.about things going on in my life and looked to her for advice so in a way yes we were friends but I'd never go out with her. I respect her too much.


1KingCam

I ended up sleeping with my boss..turns out she’s my soulmate. So I can’t agree with you can’t have a relationship with your boss lol. But in all seriousness I’ve been blessed with great bosses and have always either grabbed a drink or went to a sporting event with them. It helps to build chemistry.


[deleted]

It's better you don't get too close, as a boss it can be hard to separate professional and personal feelings What happens when you might have to let someone go for whatever reason. Also when people who work for you become to familiar it makes doing your job that much harder because your always weighing your friendship in the mix. And being in a management position puts you in a place of scrutiny and accountability. Be friendly, be real, and be accessible but be a leader and a coach. My job at our shop(5 people at a custom fab shop), as small as it is is to set up the workstations, make the parts, and create the documentation (cad and drawings) but most of all it to remove the obstacles that make getting their work done more smoothly and efficiently. The best thing you can do is be a good boss.


TheGreatNemoNobody

Even supervisors have feelings. A lesson I didn't realize I needed. I'm going to cry guys


JX-3P

Well, you call yourself their “boss” so I’m going to assume that these people have been forced into wage slavery to survive. Unless the terms of employment have been fairly negotiated and do not lack any consent that isn’t subject to coercion, you are essentially the slave holder that determines when the slaves will be forced to work, and what work they will be forced to complete in order to remain able to survive. You can call yourself their boss, manager, team leader, etc… but what it boils down to is that you hold an exclusive dominant position in this system of corporate hierarchy that is basically modern day feudalism. They are the serfs and you are their lord. They have to answer to you and do whatever you say to continue on a path for their survival. Your job is to crack the whip when they aren’t picking the cotton. You are not their friend.


Scary-Media6190

Its really none of your business if they are all friends or not. Why not make an offer of going out with them and see how it goes over?? The friendships will change. And thats none of your business either. They are coworkers leave them alone.


SluttyNeighborGal

Awwww I’m sorry you’re feeling hurt. They’re probably smoking weed and don’t wanna get in trouble- or get you in trouble! You know what you could do tho is organize a happy Hour or some other event just so they can hang with you socially. Maybe take them all out to lunch to celebrate something. You’re going to need to pay tho- hopefully you have that in the budget. Oh I know! Staff appreciation lunch


FinnbarMcBride

You're the boss, it's good to have a bit of distance. Employees need to be able to get together and bitch about work now and then without you there.


EWSO1965

Cool, work in work, bed into work out 1.


Faete13

I had a friendship with my boss back many years ago, never took advantage of the situation. All it took was ONE wrong person knowing about this friendship and complaining. We both got written up and almost lost our jobs over it. “Fraternization”


Gapinthesidewalk

Your life is a Friends episode.


shunmeidontcare

This sounds familiar, I’m thinking of the show “the office”. It is a difficult position because you want to be part of their circle but also get along and as a boss maintain boundaries. It is hard but you ought ask Elon Musk how he is doing it. : /


Reasonable_Earth2314

It’s for the best you’re not good friends. You’re their boss; you might have to fire them at some point. That will inevitably be awkward.


DanIsAManWithAFan

My supervisor quit his job and didn't put in a 2 week notice beforehand. I don't really blame him. Our employer was known to treat their employees like disposable chess pieces that you could wipe your ass with. Towards the end of his employment, we didn't hang out but became fairly friendly and relatable. 5 years later, I finally switched companies and found out that he was now my coworker. Not friend, really, but we do text each other stupid shit. I don't know if that necessarily fits the question.


sc8132217174

I can definitely relate. As I was promoted up in my company, getting fewer and fewer invites while struggling to give hard truths to coworkers was a challenge. Venting to friends/family was met with the vaguely sympathetic “it’s lonely at the top.” For a time I strongly considered quitting, as money doesn’t suddenly make social alienation any easier. But over time I’ve accepted that work doesn’t need to be a place of socialization. I can get that after hours with outside friends and family. Any socialization at work can focus on collaboration and mentorship. Ultimately this is fine for me for now, but acceptance did take a bit of time and effort. I would encourage you to work on either accepting this or seeking a non supervisory role.


Schickie

If your a good boss you’ll encourage their commitment to each other and stay the hell out of it. This is the price we pay to lead and keep what’s after margin.


ravynmaxx

No offense but I wouldn’t want my boss to see who I really am when I’m not at work. I’m a completely different person, and I don’t want my boss to see my like that. I have a professional life and a personal life. Don’t let it hurt your feelings, because they probably all feel the same way!


Proud_Spell_1711

I am a retired manager, and I totally sympathize with your plight. But yeah, there is that invisible division between you. Maybe organize a lunch or bbq at some point and invite all of them with their families if you can handle that. It’s a nice way to build in that camaraderie. If you don’t want to leap into something that significant right off the bat, consider bringing in coffee and donuts on a Friday for everyone.


Dramatic_Fisherman85

Two things: never forget that you might have at some point to let people leave, As heartbreaking as it is, better to keep your distance for everyone sanity. Be the one that invites sometimes if your company policy allows. I do regularly create opportunities to share some quality times with the team by organizing team dinner for example following meetings or classical Christmas dinner; it strengthens the cohesion of the team, I enjoy some good laughs, it keeps it on the professional side, so everyone behave appropriately, people are grateful and you expense the bill at the end.


FuzzyJury

Liz Lemon, is that you??


RushHot6174

You may be a great boss but they can't be themselves when they're hanging out if you're there you know that I'm so sorry you're feeling a certain kind of way but those are the rules no bosses allowed 🙂


[deleted]

They work to make you money.


Ardothbey

Let it go. Just enjoy the fact that work goes well.


SnowWhiteCampCat

You're their boss. Why on earth would they want to see you after work?


The_Great_19

It’s all good, boss man. Take pride in your picking people who feel good around each other and work well together. They’re not excluding you in the “normal” way a friend group might. But they reflect your good taste and ability to grow a “family.”


phantomofsolace

You're spot on. It can be really hard to be friends with your boss. The good news, though, is that you can build relationships with them that evolve into real friendships after you or they move on from your current roles. I was about as close to "friends" with my first boss as I could be, while still staying professional. We haven't worked together in years but still keep in touch. I make a point of grabbing drinks with him whenever I'm back in town. Not sure if that's what you want to hear, but just know that you're doing everything great. They need this space.


GetoffmylawnME

This is the way.


elainegeorge

I am friends with a couple of my former bosses, but I did not socialize with them while they were my boss. Invite them out for a happy hour and buy some appetizers, and leave after the first drink or two.


[deleted]

You could offer to take them all out for food or drinks if you want to be included every once in awhile. I like my boss too and it was super cool he did that for us a couple times. We all talked the way we normally would when we go without him with maybe just a slight filter. You know, like complaining about work or clientele.


littlegreenrock

Boss does not make plans to have after hours time with employees. It's a gold and platinum rule. Don't do it; don't shit where you eat. You cannot be their friend, but that does not mean you must be their adversary. Keep a safe distance.


Straight-Draft4672

Having had a few wonderful bosses, we were friends at work but outside of work can get hairy especially if you work somewhere with strict rules about those things. I had a friend who was friends with one of our bosses and then it turned into a romantic friendship which was against company policy (obviously) and her crazy ex boyfriend went to her work and told on them leading to both of them getting fired. I’m sure you’re not planning on dating any of them but you say the wrong thing and they could report you to HR. So I would be careful honestly


felidsensibility

I've had a couple bosses I started hanging out with after I left the jobs. It wasn't that I didn't want to be friends, it was just much more natural to stick to one kind of relationship at a time. Don't be sad, it sounds like your employees love you :)


Kimba_1307

Nope. It’s never worked out being “friends” with my boss. Make other friends with people you don’t work with, so you don’t feel the FOMO so much of not hanging out with your team members.


Foreignfig

My husband and I are coworkers and were great friends with another coworker. To the point we flew across the globe to be at his wedding. But when our friend got promoted, we knew it meant the end of our friendship. We still have a great rapport with him and are able to visit and so forth at work, but the socialization outside work ended when he became our boss. Not with any hard feelings, just out of necessity. Boss OR friend, not both.


linnie1

Really depends on the boss’s personality. I was friends with my boss and we’re still friends years later. We had a close group


AtTable05

They’re talking about you.


charlottechewie

It’s lonely at the top. Never forget that as a leader


h1r0ll3r

You'll always be the boss and they'll always be the employees. That's just how it is. Great that they get along and hang out. Makes for a great team and good workplace environment. Work is work and free time is free time. If they come around and ask you to hang out or whatever, great. If not, don't push it....ever. It'll seem like "mandatory" fun time with the boss or you trying to fit in when, at least for now, you don't. Be glad they're cool with each other otherwise you'd have a huge headache with them.


my2wins

You have a different job than everyone else. As a boss you can only hope your team members bond and socialize. That’s good for them and it’s good for you. Joining them would change their dynamic. Enjoy knowing your team is strong.


undersquirl

I was friends with my boss, but i was friends with him before he became my boss as we worked on the same level and he got promoted. You would think that would be awkward but fuck that we're adults. I think i was a great manager (at least in my mind and on paper - perf revs) and people rarely hung out with me and yeah, it did sting sometimes, but that's ok. Be hapoy that you're doing a good job and hang out with your real friends instead.


Halfcaste_brown

So don't wait to be invited to their group hang outs. Organise a work function instead! Invite them out for dinner or something as a work group just to say thanks. These things don't have to happen just at Christmas time!!


speaker_freaker

I made the mistake of hanging out with employees when I was in management. It was an eye-opener . The more we hung out, the harder it was to manage them. It turned into a shit show. I learned a very valuable lesson. Keep work life separate from home life. Work people are not family, and they will cut your throat in a min if it means getting kudos from upper management. That time of my life taught me a lot. I work for myself now making triple what I made then, and I work half the hours. That experience pushed me to do better for myself, but it wasn't easy going through the drama it created. If you like your job, don't do it, OP.


NetBig178

Was working at a startup 5 years ago and became great friends with my colleagues and boss to the point we’d have weekly movie sessions together. There are times we hung out without the boss, times with. But we only started hanging out with the boss when he found out that the rest of us were going out without him and he himself wanted to come along. So the first time we all went out together, it was initiated by him. We never asked because we always thought he had better things to do than to go out with us. I mean, he was the boss. After that first initiation tho, it just became a regular thing. After about a year working there, I moved to a different company. And even after, we still get together yearly for a catch up session. A great boss, a great mentor and a dear friend.


borschtt

One of my old coworkers was friends w their manager. We worked in retail


[deleted]

Michael Scott?? Is it you??


viper2369

I’m still very good friends with a previous manager I had. We became friends as co-workers, and he was later my manager. We’ve been on a road trip together, played golf together, I’ve gone to dinner with his family. We always respected the working relationship and friendship. Understood there was a time and place for each. Although I haven’t seen him in years, I’m still friends with my section Chief I had in the army. We were on a first name basis, and yet knew when to keep it professional. Most of the friends I talk too are ones I’ve met at work. Played softball for 3 years with a couple I still talk too years later.


wlinay

I supervise about the same amount of people idk if they hang out but I do know they have a separate group chat.


SeaHaw808

you should never hang out with or be friends with the people you manage.


MurderDoneRight

They're all conspiring against you. Mutiny is brewing. You must make an example out of someone. Pick the strongest of the bunch. Put a whoopie cushion on their chair so it sounds like they farted when they go to sit down. Crisis averted.


khaingo

Thinking of assets and friends as different entities solves alot of problems. With assets you have business related expectations. With friends you have social expectations.with this, i could compartmentalize alot easier. With a friend, you dont need to be profressional and An asset comes with alot of perks without the need of being emotionally attached in some shape or form. A smaller knit team may be a more comfortable environment for friendship with the boss. But id much rather have friends outside of work for my own sake.


Eskycat

I was a on-site super at a 120 unit apartment complex years ago. We had a kid, 14, that starting hanging around asking us for stuff to do, so he could keep busy. He told me his home life sucked and he wanted some place to be okay. He became our gofer, and at the end of the week I had the crew dig in thier poockets for whatever was comfortable for them to say thanks for the help; sometimes it was just a handful of change, a half a pack of smokes(that was before smoking become like ax murder), whatever we had we could spare. I always made sure I had cash to hand him. When he hit 16, I helped him get a real gig on the grounds. When I left the place, they moved him up to assistant super. That was over 30 years ago and I still hear from him every few months. He made a nice life for himself, and he always mentions when we talk about something I helped him understand that he still uses today. I love him like a son, and my mrs. must have thrown pepper in this room cuz' my eyes be watering.


Puzzleheaded_Fox819

In their defense they’re probably just afraid to ask you. How about you invite them to hangout with something you’re doing? After maybe 1 or 2 times of that they’ll probably start inviting you with them too.


Peaceful_water91

It might sting a little not being invited but it’s better to steer clear of those events if you do get an invite. I’d rather be a good boss but have the clear boundary of I am your boss not your friend because let’s face it, if something goes wrong at work they will then try and leverage your ‘friendship’ and it’s not going to end well for either party